[00:00:00] Jay: Hi everyone, welcome to First Customer. My name's Jay Aigner. Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by Behdad Jamshidi of CJAM Marketing. Hello sir, how are you? I'm great. You're up in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is somewhere I've wanted to visit. We talked a little bit before the show. is the weather nice up there right now?
[00:00:19] Behdad: Right now it is mildly sunny, and which is very good weather in Vancouver.
[00:00:23] Jay: Okay. All right. I've heard it's rainy, right? Or no?
[00:00:26] Behdad: It usually rains. yeah, but we got a pretty good summer. if you ever come into Vancouver, that's when you come up.
[00:00:31] Jay: All right. I'll come in the summer then. well, cool man. tell me where you came from. Where'd you grow up? and kind of did anything, in your childhood, lead to, you being an entrepreneur?
[00:00:41] Behdad: where I grew up, so I was born in Toronto. Funny enough, packed my bags when I was 1 with the parents and moved over to Vancouver and basically lived here my whole life. and my parents were immigrants. And so I think that definitely had an aspect of becoming an entrepreneur because you watch my dad go from working, you know, 3 gas station jobs to then having 2 kids and going, oh, this isn't going to support this family, you know, Goes to school again, gets an accounting degree, or license and then starts his own business, right?
So watching that and that type of grit obviously, plays into kind of who you are. and I originally took the traditional path of going through school, getting my engineering degree. and then I did like everything from QA testing like you do, to software to then working for like a big telecom.
Yeah. But I always have this, like, itch of, like, just doing things outside of the norm. And so I did stuff on the side. You know, I got my personal training license. I tried to do a software project. I tried to do all these different things. none of them really stuck until my current business.
[00:01:38] Jay: I'm always curious about the ones that didn't stick. tell me about some of those. What did you try, personal training, what did you try to do there? Like, did you try to start your own business? Did you just try to kind of like do it on the side? Like, what was the story there?
[00:01:49] Behdad: Yeah, the story, I mean, the story there was, I spent a lot of money on my own, like, personal training and physio and things like that. Like, when I'm talking a lot of money, I'm talking like, 40 because I had a lot of injuries playing soccer growing up. so I almost paid for a kinesiology degree, but just did it through, actually going through it.
so. At that point, I was like, well, I know I have this all this knowledge and I'm seeing these personal trainers, not teach people things correctly. So why not just get a personal training license and do it on the side and see what we could do. so I took on customers at about 4 page, 4 personal training clients while I was working in engineering job.
And it just kind of got to a point where, I was going to potentially right before COVID open up a gym with one of my personal training buddies. Thank God we didn't do that. cause that would not have been good. but I got to a point where I just noticed, I was like, oh. Personal training stuff. It's not just physical.
It's like there's a whole mental aspect to it. And I can't in 1 hour, you know, 3 or 4 days. I can't fix that. And so it's kind of like, I kind of stopped doing it because I was like, I can't truly help people the way I want to help people. And so that's kind of what, burnt it out over, over time.
[00:02:51] Jay: Interesting. Yeah. and could talk for days about the, mental side of the physical, you know, physical health and how that helps and hurts the, you know, the mental side of things. But, huge proponent of moving, you know, it's like we don't do that enough anymore. So, tell me about, CJAM. How did you get to CJAM?
Did you start, did that start with kind of some freelancing stuff before that? Like, how did you figure out that was the path for you?
[00:03:16] Behdad: so I'll give you the kind of the context of it. Like, so it was a combination of what I was doing at the time. Plus, kind of, like, these new skills that I kind of picked up. And so, like, what I was doing, for my full time job, I worked at a company very similar to like, Verizon, but up in Canada, it's called Telus.
basically, I was working with B2B customers, like businesses, anywhere from about 50 to 1000 type employee range, understanding kind of what's going on within the business from a C level perspective, IT perspective. And then from there, building out a roadmap Typically for technology, but it would touch a bunch of other things, of how to get from A to B to C within the business.
And so that's where a lot of, like, my business consulting, sales, leadership and technology experience came from. and one of my coworkers at work talked about this guy that was making like 50, 000 a month doing SEO for dentists. And I was like, I didn't know what SEO was. I knew what dentists were, and the guy had a two hour video that I should go watch.
so I want to watch the video. And I remember standing in the living room being like. This makes sense. Like looking over my wife and the guy had like a cheap 500 course. and, I was like, Oh, at that time it wasn't cheap for me. It was 500 American was a lot of money. And I was like, should I buy this and spend the time to do it?
And my wife was like, look, if you do this, you better stick with it and make some money out of it. And so, I took the course, the course was good. I mean, it taught me the basics of like websites and Google ads and SEO, like super basics, but then the engineer in me wanted to learn more. So I took like a 25 hour Google ads course.
I started reading SEO textbooks. And so picking up all these like skills, and then I started basically working with like, one of my friends, I was like, Hey, I know how to build a website and your website's really old. Can I just build you one for free? And you pay me at the end of the day of like what you think is it's worth.
And so I kind of got into that, but over time, I started getting really tired of doing 80 hour websites on the weekend. they weren't fun. so I started looking for partners to work with. And so one of the, one of these agencies was like, Hey, I'll give you a percentage back of like leads you send me.
And I'm like, so I just send you. Business and it's the right match and I got a percentage of that. Okay, cool. Like that's already built out. And as I did that, I noticed kind of two things that marketing agencies didn't understand business and business people didn't understand marketing, right? You put these two people in the same meeting and these, the agencies would pick up work that they shouldn't pick up.
You're like, that's not your core competency. Why are you selling the customer on that? Right. and that drove me nuts. And so I started realizing there's a massive gap. In like, that knowledge space in that, like, connection space. And so I thought, what if I was able to build out a partner network of people that I trust, right?
I'll talk to businesses, see what they need and then go here are the people that you need to talk to in marketing. And so, over the course of 4 years, I've spoken to over 671 different agencies and partners, and I vetted that list down to 80 plus partners that I trust and work with. And that's all I do now.
I just talk to businesses, see what they need and then match them with the right marketing partner. So that's kind of like how my business has evolved.
[00:06:02] Jay: And, well, okay. There was a lot to unpack there. well, I love the story of the, you know, the two hour... You know, infomercial that got you to the course that got you to doing the, I mean, that's how it works, right? So, for those who don't know, Is SEO still king? Is that still the way that people deal with stuff?
I mean, just kind of a technical question on your background, like, is that still worth putting money into from your opinion as a marketing kind of expert at this point?
[00:06:29] Behdad: So when you look at marketing, you have to look at marketing as a whole, right? So if you're starting out as a business, you're turning on different channels for marketing, right? And at some point you need all these channels to work together. And that's when the flywheel kind of starts taking effect. Like you're everywhere, right?
Like if you're doing SEO, people are looking at your content on the web. They're coming to learning about you, but then they start seeing posts on LinkedIn. They start seeing Instagram posts. They start seeing other stuff and they start going, holy, these guys are everywhere. So the next time you need some sort of marketing, who are you going to go to?
Right. so SEO, I'm personally investing in my own SEO, because that's how I do my knowledge here. But then I take the SEO content, take that reapply to Instagram, reapply to LinkedIn. So I'm using it as a content strategy, similar to like this podcast,
[00:07:10] Jay: right?
[00:07:10] Behdad: run a podcast. Snip up all the videos, put them on different things.
You can create blogs out of them. Like it's just all part of the overall content strategy and getting your business out there.
[00:07:20] Jay: Yep. That makes sense. so what do you think, held you back from reaching your conclusion sooner? Right? Like, what are the lessons you think that you kind of learned along the way before the light bulb went off and you went, oh, like, this is something I should be doing?
[00:07:35] Behdad: so I always took a really methodical approach on how to like, shift from working full time to doing my business, right? Like, my whole mindset, like, I had this, like Five to 10 year plan of like, Hey, I'm making a certain amount of money in Telus. I'm trying to get CJAM to replace that amount of money or more.
Right. and so I put in the hard work, just working two jobs for a very long time, right. It took me about three and a half, four years before I left my full-time job six months ago in January. and so CJAM's been around for probably like four years and three or four months now, just for like context.
So, I put a lot of hard work in there. I might have been able to leave sooner, right? Like, even when I was making less than the engineering job. but just knowing my own personality and that I like some sort of stability and some sort of stuff. I want it to be at a certain level before I left. That was part 1 of the biggest things I had to get through is because initially, when I started CJAM, I had a partner in the business very early on. Right? he probably left 4 or 6 months into the business. and that was like, probably 1 of the hardest things that I had to kind of get through is like, hey, I had a partner because I thought, you know, he had skill sets that I didn't have and it was good to like, balance ideas off of someone.
And I always love building things with other people. So I had to get over the fact that he didn't want to build anymore. I had to run this business myself and figure it all out myself. and there is a lot of like, internal aspects that didn't trust that I could do something like this. And it's still and it's still around, right?
Like, every business owner, right? Like, you hit certain levels. And when you hit a certain level, you have to evolve as a human again, and you have to evolve. It's a massive personal growth journey. so I had to get through that level, which I did. And, it's just always just being prepared to be like, am I ready to upskill to the next level to get to what I want to get to?
Right.
[00:09:14] Jay: Right. What do you think your biggest, growth has been in, personally, as you've gone on this journey?
[00:09:20] Behdad: The mental health aspect is probably the, the most massive and what I'm putting a lot of time into now, too. So I've personally done counseling for, like, 5 years, right? When I worked at tell us, they gave us 5000 a year to do any type of counseling. And I was like, cool. I'm going to go figure out what I don't know that I don't know about myself.
Right? Like, I didn't have any specific issues I was trying to solve, but I was like, I just want to learn as much as I can about myself when you start doing entrepreneurship full time, like, even when you're working full time, and you're doing entrepreneurship, it's not the same as soon as you start doing entrepreneurship full time.
And this is the only thing that you can you're doing to make money.
[00:09:54] Jay: Yep.
[00:09:55] Behdad: All your fears and insecurities and stuff come out and so that practice of, focusing on your mental health, keeping that consistent was. Probably one of the most powerful things to kind of get me through the next stage and now I'm looking at, okay, I got solid counselors.
I got mentors and now I'm looking at, like, do I bring in a business coach in here to kind of just like level out the whole set where you have look at your past, look at your current and then look at future and like, balance it all out. And I think that's what it really takes to, like, take a business to the level that you, you want to take it up to.
[00:10:25] Jay: Yeah. I love that. yeah, I've kind of done a light version of business coaching in that, I do standing calls with all my agency owner friends that are successful and we talk about what's going on. We share stories, share tools, share whatever, and that's been kind of my version of a business coach. But I love the past, future, present kind of model there.
That seems like something that would benefit a lot of people. So, if CJAM over again tomorrow, with all the stuff you know today, what would be step one?
[00:11:03] Behdad: Honestly, I was looking at this question and I was like, how do I answer this? Because, like, the way that I built Cjam, I think is the way that I would still go back and build Cjam. Like, I wouldn't have changed it because the way I did it was this, like, it's not this, like, fast growing thing. Business, right?
Like, you're not going from, like, 0 to 100 in a year, right? It's like, it's those, like, little growth things. So I'm, like, adding different pieces into the mix. I'm meeting people consistently, like, spending the time to meet 671 just agency owners. That's not including the number of business owners. I've spoken to, like, building that kind of network takes time and you can't rush it.
And so for me, If I had gone back, I'd probably do the same thing, man. Like just be slow, methodical, build it out, go in with some ignorance, to be honest, like just not knowing how much work it's going to take to build a business like this. Like, it's a good thing. I didn't know that. and just do the work, like just.
Do the work, put the time in and I guess knowing what I know now, I know every single network connection that I make and every relationship that I build is helping me down the road. And I know that now, and I knew that back then, but it just solidifies that, how important your network really is.
[00:12:10] Jay: Yeah. No, I think that's fair. And I wouldn't say that question is meant to elicit an answer about what you would do different. So, I love the answer. I think that it, I mean, being slow and methodical is fine. Like, it's okay to, Take your time, and you know, it doesn't, there's just the constant, you know, the sass hockey stick, kind of like, this is the way you have to build a startup, kind of mentality, and like, that's, I did the same thing. I mean, I went through consulting. It took me years, and I built it up, and then like, you know, yes, there's times where shit just goes crazy, and like, you got, you know, too much, you know, it's a good problem to have, right? Too many clients, and you're just like, oh my god, like, what do I do? And like you said, then you're, that's your next evolution of a business owner and as a human being, so, I think that's a great answer. So, you mentioned the mental health stuff, you, I mean, obviously, you know, the physical stuff you're into, but, but, you know, what are the three things you're doing to kind of keep your longevity up, to keep yourself tuned up as high as, you know, caliber as you can be, you know, in life?
[00:13:05] Behdad: Yeah, so 3 healthy habits. I mean, we've talked about some of them already. Like, mental health is number 1 and future forward thinking. Right? So getting, I always think of it as like getting your Avengers team. Right? Like, you want an Avengers team for different aspects of your life. and those people help you move forward.
So, for business, for me, it's like a counselor, my mentors, and then soon, a business coach. and obviously, like, community, like, you talked about that supports you. and then even in personal life, I have an Avengers team. I have a solid doctor. I have a solid naturopath. I have a strength and conditioning coach, right?
Like, I have people that I can go to when something goes wrong and it's not my expertise. I can reach out to them. so that's number 1 that I'm trying to keep that healthy habit there. and have that support network. the gym and food is massive for me. Right? I want to be eating healthy. I want to be cooking as much as I can at home eating at home because you just know what's in your food.
and staying consistent with the gym. I see my strength and conditioning coach once every 2 weeks. And then he builds me up my program for the next 2 weeks. I did say I was a personal trainer at some point. I could do this myself, but I just not where I want to spend my mental energy. Right? I'd rather someone else do it for me. And I just literally go to the gym. Look at my app. Oh, I got to do this today. Done. Like, I'll get it done. and then the last 1 would be, just just working on being less reactive and being more centered, which I think the 1st two help get there. and I think a big part of that is just awareness, and just trying to get better.
Individually, like, step by step, and then once you hit, like, you know, 10 years in business, you go, wow, like, nothing really phases me anymore because I've kind of gone through it. I've dealt with the emotions, and I can kind of do whatever I want at that point.
[00:14:31] Jay: I love it. I'm a firm believer in all those things. I would love to get a strength and conditioning coach. I have to figure out where to find one, is my thing. Where did you find yours? When you're in the space, you probably,
[00:14:42] Behdad: I was in the space, but no, you'll, so you're going to be looking for these like people that are on another level. So if you look at SNC coach, because most personal trainers, they don't have a strength and conditioning level, right? Like it's a strength and conditioning is on top of a personal trainer.
They do about an extra year of work. And it's a program that they have to do to get to that level. And those types of people are the ones that are working with like athletes. Right so you're not going to get, the, like, the hypertrophy programs of, like, okay, you're just going to hit, like, multiple sets of, bicep curls and tricep curls.
It's like, no, you're like, really doing, like. Heavy lifts like squads powerlifting depending on what if you play sports, like what season sport you're in, because you have to do these like periods. yeah, so just look for like the high level guys that work with actual high level athletes. And that's the guy you want to hire.
[00:15:28] Jay: okay. Yeah, I saw a guy. It's so funny. I saw a dude. I don't think you guys have Rita's up there. It's like a water ice, like. Summertime ice cream place near here and I went there with my kids the other day And there was a dude there That wasn't getting ice cream. He was getting it for his kids, but he looked like an action figure.
He was like just this like Fake looking human being and like he had like this like, Some sort of physical trainer shirt on and I came that close to just be like, hey man, like Weird question, but like, you know, are you like, you know, I mean, I think he did it for a living obviously I mean, he's like, you know, you can see the guys are like, all right That guy like does it for so I almost I almost got that in my voice like you should have got his number I was like, yeah, I probably should have but I will i'll definitely be on the lookout I didn't know that there were separate levels that that's interesting. All right. So, mystery question time. So, non business related, nothing to do with your business. what's something you would do, anything on earth, if you knew you couldn't fail?
[00:16:27] Behdad: I'll tell you what I want to do. likely will do even if it does fail. so my thing is, As I'm going through this entrepreneurship experience, what I'm starting to realize is I really enjoy meeting, like, really cool people, like, and every now and then, like, 1 out of, like, 30 or 1 out of 40 people.
You're like, this person's a cool person. Like, they're 1 of a kind. I have this thing where I want to take those types of people that I'm meeting, that have the same values that I have, or it's like, you know, your growth mindset it. You don't have to be just like a business person. It can be someone that's working in corporate, but you're just like this person that when someone talks to you, like, you just get energy from, and you get excited to talk to, right?
I want to take those types of people and put them into, like, a private community personally, and just run that community in a way that, like, I'm just, like, creating these interactions between these types of people and beautiful things, I think, will happen just from putting people like that in the same environment.
so basically, I want to create a group of one of a kind type people and build that out over time and then see kind of what happens with that.
[00:17:23] Jay: Dude, that's beautiful. I actually have the same exact goal. I consider myself like a community builder. It's like something that I kind of like finally gave myself. credit for being able to do because I've done it forever I've done it with like video game communities and like now I have Like an astrophotography community where I have like a thousand people and I've always wanted to do the same thing.
You just said But like the BNI's of the world and like those business groups that are kind of they're just like it's not for me and the Chamber of Commerce and all those things are great and they're fun organization to be part of but like like you said, a one of a kind kind of group, I think is a great idea.
I love that. That's the first, that was the first, you're the first person who has said that, so, that's one of a kind.
[00:18:02] Behdad: Yeah, cool.
[00:18:04] Jay: well, this was great, dude. Let's end it here. there's some great lessons in here. I'd love to have you again on someday, like, you're a smart guy, you're very, I like the methodical, like, you laid out your five and ten year plan, I think that's like every software engineer I've ever talked to, just very, you know, procedural, very analytical.
I mean, I have my, like I said, I have my background in comp sci, but like, I, Chose not to go that path But you know you're I think people will get some good stuff out of this So where can people find you if they want to find? Behdad or CJAM
[00:18:31] Behdad: the 2 places I'm on the most, you can find me on my website at www. cjammarketing. com. Just shoot me an email from that website or just find me on LinkedIn, underneath my name Behdad Jamshidi. I'm on there quite often. so best ways to reach out to me.
[00:18:44] Jay: All right, well include those in the notes and hopefully people will reach out Behdad it was great meeting you brother a lot of energy and Love what you're doing. Keep up the good work, right?
[00:18:53] Behdad: Awesome. Thanks for having me on Jay.
[00:18:54] Jay: Thanks, man. Talk to you buddy. See ya