[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the First Customer Podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I'm lucky enough to be joined by the co founder and executive director of KOVR and Active Life Company, Melissa Allen. Hello, Melissa. How are you?
[00:00:39] Melissa: Hi. Hi, Jay. Great. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:42] Jay: you're out in the lovely, San Diego, the hot San Diego this week. we were talking a little bit before the show. Everybody, I always tell people, like, I 70s or 80s year round, and they always say, you should just go to San Diego. So, you were confirming how beautiful it is out there, except for maybe this week.
[00:00:58] Melissa: yeah, I mean, even if it's hot this week when you're from the Midwest, hot out here isn't really hot compared to there, right? It's nice all the time.
[00:01:06] Jay: Yeah, I like that. Well, speaking of Midwest and where you came from, why don't we start there. where did you grow up and did that have any kind of impact on your entrepreneurial journey?
[00:01:15] Melissa: I'm sure that it did. I grew up in Davenport, Iowa. It's part of the Quad Cities. and, I, it's like a working, working town, you know, a lot of blue collar jobs, but, everybody goes to work, and, you know what, like, one of my first jobs was, I guess probably shoveling snow. Yeah.
[00:01:36] Jay: in the family that was an entrepreneur or a business owner or did you just kind of pick that up later in life?
[00:01:40] Melissa: Yeah, I just kind of picked it up later in life.
[00:01:42] Jay: Okay. And where did you go to school and what for?
[00:01:45] Melissa: I went to, for college,
Yeah.
I went to school out here for biological science,
[00:01:49] Jay: Okay. What was your plan with your biological science? What did you want to do with it?
[00:01:53] Melissa: Well, originally I was going to go to medical school, and then I disKOVRed I could make a living, in the health and fitness industry. So, in addition to the SunStream, I own a corrective exercise center.
[00:02:04] Jay: And what's corrective exercise for those, including me who don't know?
[00:02:07] Melissa: It's kind of like a bridge between a physical therapist and a general personal trainer.
[00:02:11] Jay: Okay, and how long you been doing that?
[00:02:13] Melissa: 24 years.
[00:02:15] Jay: Wow, all right. So you've been at the entrepreneurial life for a long time Tell me a little bit about that business. how did you start that?
[00:02:20] Melissa: Oh, the fitness company?
[00:02:22] Jay: Yeah, a fitness one. How did you had that? How did that come about?
[00:02:25] Melissa: well, like I said, I was going to school, planning on going to medical school, but I've been lifting weights since I was 14 years old, I would say, so it was always part of my life. I just didn't realize that people made their living, you know, in that industry. I just never met anyone who did that.
[00:02:43] Jay: And so you decide to start your own business and did you how'd you get your first clients? You know your first customers for your fitness company
[00:02:50] Melissa: Well, I took a job at 24 Hour Fitness, which was kind of, kind of ironic because when I was, I think I was 16 back in, Davenport. I also took a job there, but it was like vacuuming for free membership. Obviously didn't value my time. And then fast forward when I'm in college, I took a job there as a trainer. And I didn't realize that people made a living like that. And it's something that just came natural because I'd always been doing that. So that was you know, that was 1999.
[00:03:17] Jay: Okay
[00:03:18] Melissa: 1999 what seems like forever ago. does.
[00:03:22] Jay: so let's talk through, Active Life Company and kovr, like, how did you get from physical training and kind of that world over to sunscreen? That seems like an interesting leap.
[00:03:32] Melissa: Yeah, and I should mention I am still doing the physical training
[00:03:35] Jay: I did see that, I was gonna say, it looked like it said still present, so that's good, alright, very cool, alright.
[00:03:39] Melissa: Yeah. wearing two hats can sometimes be a bit much, but the way we got into this is, our puppy disKOVRed skin cancer on my husband's head. And, both of us are real active outdoor people.
I mean, if I'm not lifting weights inside, then I want to be outside. I don't want to be doing cardio in a gym. You know, I'd rather be going, you know, paddling like I'm going to do today, over here. And he's probably in the bay today, probably not in the ocean, but, You know, being outdoors like that is a big part of our lives.
We backpack, we ride dirt bikes, that kind of thing. And so skin protection is, you know, of a concern. My husband's very pale complexion, and he never likes wearing sunscreen. And that's probably how it happened. He's getting a little bit bald on top, and he probably got more exposure than what he realized.
And luckily for us, our puppy happened to smell something that must have smelled different. And just was obsessive about it, which made us look closer and make a long story short it ended up being basal cell carcinoma and it was successfully removed. And that's what gave us the idea to start a sunscreen business.
[00:04:39] Jay: Wow.
[00:04:40] Melissa: Yeah.
[00:04:42] Jay: Certainly the first... guest that has ever had a dog discover cancer, on my call. So that I'm going to show that's very interesting. and probably could be a whole show in of itself. so what were you guys first steps? Like, I mean, if you know, you're doing your kind of your own thing with physical fitness and you've kind of been running that business, how did you go?
about switching from being the co founder of a, or founder of a services business, which is, you know, what your training stuff is to an actual product. I mean, I would have to imagine there's a lot of difference in building a product like that.
[00:05:14] Melissa: It does a huge difference. matter of fact, I think if I would have chose a product company first, I don't think I would have been successful if I didn't know what I know from the service business. well for one, I think I'm, better well rounded having a product company and a service business.
This is my future because, you know, I don't have a nine to five. So, you know, I'm not gonna have a pension or something like that on down the road And I try to diversify as much as possible, almost like investments. You don't want to put all your money in one pot, right?
Yeah, so how I got into that, I suppose like the first step was finding a manufacturing company that would work with us, for one. Which might sound easy, but you don't really even know how to go about finding a manufacturer. It's not like you, it's not usually typically a B to C kind of an industry, right?
Manufacturers work with other businesses, so that's probably was my first hurdle. That's how it started there. coming up with, well, knowing first of all that we wanted a natural sunscreen, we were aware of sunscreens, and I use sunscreens, just not regularly, and obviously my husband didn't regularly, so we already knew that there was chemical sunscreens and mineral sunscreens just because, like, the industry I'm in, like, you know, I tend to eat healthier foods, you know, I tend not to choose things that are going to be destructive to my body. And, I was aware of the two main differences, and then from there, I had to figure out, like, how can we, create our own formula, our own, and find a manufacturer that wants to work with a small business, which is not easy.
[00:06:41] Jay: how did you tackle each one of those? I mean, how, specifically, how did you come up with the formula for something? I mean, you guys aren't sunscreen makers, so how did you become one?
[00:06:50] Melissa: Well, with sunscreen, I should first of all mention, sunscreen, like, there's gonna be a set amount of ingredients, so you can't, unlike, let's say, like, a, moisturizer, you can't just, Throw things together because sunscreen is monitored by the FDA, right?
So in order for sunscreen to be approved, it's got to have a certain amount of things in it.
So we are kind of limited as to, you know, what we can do. I can't just make up everything and throw it in there. So you have to have like a basic structure.
someone gave the analogy of, acetaminophen. They said, so you have different brands of acetaminophen, like you have Tylenol and you have Bayer. And I thought, that's a good analogy. I should use that when I'm explaining sunscreen, you know.
[00:07:27] Jay: I like that.
[00:07:28] Melissa: yeah. And I'm sorry, what was the other part of the question you asked about?
[00:07:32] Jay: the manufacturing side, how did you guys figure out, what was the path to like, I mean it's a big nut to crack, like how did you even start doing that?
[00:07:39] Melissa: It's a huge nut to crack. you know what, honestly, I, first I tried to go, obviously, online, on the internet, but, I was very limited with what I found, and then, I, just a good old fashioned way of calling people,
calling people, figuring out who was in charge of that. Most people wanted nothing to do with us, you know, it was very hard, but I found one guy in, in Florida that just, he basically held my hand through the whole thing.
And we're actually in the process of moving to a much larger manufacturer now, but I couldn't have gotten going if it wasn't for him in the beginning. I mean, honestly, like he was a godsend. And I feel like I should, Fly out, like, like, take him and his family back out to dinner or something to thank him for what he did for me, you know?
and looking back now, there's just so much I didn't know, I mean, I was calling him all the time, and it's amazing that he actually took my calls and, like, walked me through it because, you know, it is a process, You know, it's a process to get the, say for an example, let me just show you here, like, You know, just a label for sunscreen, you probably can't see it that well with my lighting here, but, Getting a label registered with the FDA is quite an undertaking.
Most people don't have any idea how that works. And, you know, or UPC codes. You ever think about UPC codes or how those work or how
those are connected? I mean,
[00:08:50] Jay: I have no idea.
[00:08:51] Melissa: there's a lot to this and a lot that I had to learn. Well, here's an example. UPC codes, everybody kind of knows what they are. They don't know how they work. And when I first started, I knew that I was going to need those, but I still didn't really understand how it all fit together. So I think I googled UPC codes. There seemed to be some companies up there that did it. And, so I, I bought some. And, and then I found out later someone said, Oh, did you buy your UPC codes from GS1?
And I was like, no, I got a good deal someplace. And they were like, just so you know, you can only get UPC codes only from GS1. And any other
place is a scam.
So yeah, I got taken for like 60 bucks. And
not a big deal, but there's tons of places that offer UPC codes. And none of them are legit, but one.
Isn't that interesting?
[00:09:35] Jay: That is, I did not know that.
[00:09:37] Melissa: Either did I
[00:09:38] Jay: I would assume there's just tons of those little gotchas, as you build a product for the first time, like a physical product for the very first time.
[00:09:46] Melissa: Well, for UPC codes and things like that, it has to be a system that the whole world agrees on, on how to track things, you know, in the larger world of commerce. So, it has to be something with, whatever countries you're doing trade with, you all have to agree to use the same system, or it wouldn't connect, Right.
And it's just such a high level of thinking to be able to understand all that. It's there's just a lot to it and it took me a while and in the beginning like I said I got scammed out of some money but luckily it wasn't a ton, you know?
[00:10:17] Jay: So did you have like a, like an overarching kind of plan that you started to develop as you went through because I imagine there's just like, like you said, there's so many different pieces, right? Like the packaging and the branding and the UPC codes and the FDA stuff and the, what, did you just did you have a plan early on or did it just kind of continue to evolve to where you got to the end and you were like, okay, now I have everything I need.
We can go to market with this.
[00:10:42] Melissa: No, I mean I had a plan. I would say like I had a loose structure. Like I've always been an advocate of writing business plans. I never go into anything like blind, but there was just a lot of changes and stuff that came up along the way. And then I should also mention, I got a ton of help from the SBA.
I don't know if you're
yeah, Yeah, SBA is the SBDC, Small Business Development Center. And most cities have them. I got a ton of help from them and I couldn't have gotten this far also without them.
[00:11:11] Jay: Talk to me a little bit about that because it's interesting. I have never really engaged with them, but I'm aware of the SBA and what it does, but just talk a little bit about maybe your experience with like finding out who they were and like how you could help, how they could help you because I mean, I'm sure other people could probably benefit from things they have to offer.
[00:11:29] Melissa: I would say I originally found out about the SBA from my fitness company, but I didn't get a ton of direct help other than some people that assisted me in the way of advisors I think at the time. This was years ago, so I'm trying to remember. but fast forward to now, I just happened to attend like a manufacturing expo at the very beginning of this.
And that's how I got connected with some of these people. And someone told me this particular advisor's name. Diana Barbiani. Now, she was super helpful. Now, if I wouldn't have gotten her, and she works for the SBDC, which is under the umbrella of the SBA. If I wouldn't have gotten her, I don't know that I would have found it quite as successful for what I was doing. And, in this instance, she worked as a sales rep at one time. So that's a, intermediary that I need to get into stores or retail outlets. So she worked as a sales rep. she also worked as a buyer. So that's what every larger retailer has. They all have buyers assigned to different departments.
So she understands like both sides of that. And then she also had her own business. So I, so the way the SBDC works is you can get as many advising sessions with an advisor. And I don't have to just use her, I could use anyone I want, but in my case, she had like everything that I needed. And she's just a great person, but I can make as many appointments with her as I want, and it's all funded by the government.
A lot of people don't realize that, and it's amazing resources right at our disposal.
[00:12:54] Jay: I like that. I'll link some information in this, these show notes, about, about the SBA because, And I'll also check them out a little bit more myself, because I think, you know, there's probably some things they can help us with. so, sunscreen is not, I mean, everyone knows about sunscreen, right?
But, what, how did you set out to make something different? That could stand out or be unique or have any chance of standing up against whatever the hell all these million different brands are I mean, I don't I use more sunscreen as I got five kids So more sunscreen than it just about anybody that I know so like I'm very aware of sunscreen the brands, but how did you guys?
mentally kind of prepare to Get out there. Like what was your pitch against these? You know just being another sunscreen brands on the right age shelf or whatever.
[00:13:44] Melissa: Well, I say that we're the sunscreen for people that are active in sweat. so I, it's kind of started for the reasons that we didn't like using sunscreen in the beginning. So for
me, it always felt like your skin couldn't breathe. It always feels like your sweat's locked in. It doesn't feel like comfortable to be sweating if you have sunscreen on.
With my husband, he just doesn't like that feeling at all. Like I use lotions and stuff, but to me, typical sunscreens felt funny when you're sweat. With my husband, he doesn't even use lotion, so he doesn't like the feeling of stuff on his skin. And then from there, a lot of people think that SPF 60 blocks twice as many harmful rays as 30,
but that's not the way it works either. now having said that, you should apply more frequently with a lower amount, but SPF 30 blocks 97 percent of harmful rays. So for us, we want as light as possible
[00:14:36] Jay: protection as possible. So, 30 because then I go back to the reasons why I didn't want to use sunscreen, right?
Right, right. Okay. Interesting. What about the sprays? Are you, like, are you anti spray, sunscreen type? Is that like, what's your, I'm just out of curiosity. It's nothing to do with anything other than my own personal curiosity. What do you think about the sprays?
[00:15:00] Melissa: you know, I'm not anti spray, but I am anti chemical sunscreens. And most of the sprays I've seen are always chemical. And so
there's all kinds of things in there that are harmful for the environment as well as for the person. what area did you say you are in again?
[00:15:14] Jay: We're in Philadelphia.
[00:15:16] Melissa: okay, so for us, like, oceans and ocean health is a big deal around here, you know?
So, I ended up, I think Hawaii was the first one who came out with a ban on sunscreens. And that was interesting because our idea started before that even came out. But what happened after that was you had all these chemical sunscreens. And now everyone wants to jump board and get on the mineral sunscreen boat.
And so our competition just kind of went through the roof. With that, you know,
[00:15:44] Jay: so we did have some people take our sunscreen to Hawaii, and it was approved They let them in like they checked them at the airport, so that was kind of a big deal
Interesting.
And what did you guys do, what do you guys do to... Kind of deal with that level of competition like I mean, that's kind of a second part to my original question it's like
there's a lot of competition obviously and how do you as a smaller company even compete in a space? That's just kind of I would assume owned by like a few really big companies.
How do you guys? How do you guys make your mark in that space?
[00:16:19] Melissa: I was definitely there. There's it's a lot of competition em. Yeah, they are such bohemus I don't know that we will ever be there. I mean I would like to think That's a possibility, but for us, like, the goal was never to make like a huge fortune and retire. We just want to make sunscreen application a habit. Especially for men. I mean, there's no reason why we can't lower the risk of sunscreen just by regular application. So, for us, you know, helping out the small mom and pop shops, that's where we're in, San Diego. we'd also love to be working with the military since we're a veteran owned company. We'd like to be in, in the, And the Racksacks, you know, Rucksacks, of everybody, and we're trying to go that route as well.
So, you know, I try to do like the B2C, the B2B, and even B2G, they call it, you know,
business to government. And then having said that, with the B2C, the consumer industry, we do sell on Amazon, as well as, Walmart. And then on our website, of course.
[00:17:15] Jay: Gotcha Interesting. Yeah So this isn't a what would you do differently question, but it's more of a If you could take all the things you've learned so far, and you had to start again tomorrow, from square one, what would be for what would be step one for you if you were gonna start this business again tomorrow from scratch?
[00:17:36] Melissa: Starting a sunscreen company
[00:17:37] Jay: Yeah, same business again.
[00:17:39] Melissa: let me think about that. I probably would have done more research into the legalities that revolve around sunscreen versus a, non drug product. I have other friends that own, you know, that own companies, but their product is not classified under the FDA. And, so getting advice along the way, not everybody really knew the things that were specific to me
because of the FDA. So I think I would have definitely looked more specifically at that, just to have a better understanding, rather than, like, like learning by fire, you know, later.
Yeah, so, it just sort of made things easier for me to understand.
[00:18:18] Jay: Got it. well that's one you've already touched on a couple times, but let's switch gears a little bit, What are three kind of things, you know, physical, mental, emotional, whatever health things to kind of increase your longevity? obviously wearing sunscreen is one of those,
but but what are three kind of things that, that you practice regularly, to keep yourself tuned up?
[00:18:38] Melissa: well I'm pretty consistent with weightlifting since I own the fitness center and I've been doing that like I said since I was 16. I lift weights like 3 to 4 days a week. And I am trying to get it back into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, that was always a huge part of my life. I train like twice a week. And some things changed where I was training so I don't have that.
I'm trying to get that back into my life. And I like to be outdoors a lot so I try to either mountain bike or paddle twice a week.
[00:19:04] Jay: Beautiful, I love that.
[00:19:06] Melissa: and that's that's one of the things I'm trying to do today, but I'm sorry you asked for three. The
other thing, I recently started turkey hunting with a bow,
[00:19:14] Jay: and so I, I try to get out and shoot my bow and keep that all dialed in, I love that. That's, that's another first. no, no other, especially in, in, in California. I don't feel like, is there like a big turkey pot? I'm from Virginia originally where like,
you know, deer and turkey season was like a, religious holiday for everyone in my small town in, in, in, New Kent, Virginia.
But, is there a lot of turkey out there?
[00:19:35] Melissa: I don't know about a lot, and I haven't gotten a turkey yet, but yes,
there are turkeys. There are, there's actually turkey here in San Diego County.
San Diego County is pretty big by the way, like, the county is I want to say it's a hundred miles wide from the Pacific going east, so I live further east, so I live like twenty minutes from the beach,
but our county is so big, and I don't even know how big it is from Mexican border up to Orange County, but we have a huge county.
[00:20:01] Jay: Alright.
[00:20:02] Melissa: Yeah, there, but there, there, is turkey out here.
[00:20:04] Jay: Okay, alright, well that's two things. Give me one more, healthy thing that you're kind of practicing.
[00:20:09] Melissa: Oh, so that wasn't three, paddling, mountain biking. Yeah.
[00:20:13] Jay: Alright, you can count
[00:20:14] Melissa: Bowing. Shooting.
[00:20:15] Jay: Okay, we'll give you three. I'll give you three on that. Alright. so, one last thing and we'll wrap it up. the mystery question. non business related. what's one thing on earth you would do, if you knew you couldn't fail? Anything on your bucket list, anything you've always wanted to do, what is something you would do if you knew you couldn't fail?
[00:20:33] Melissa: If I knew I couldn't fail. Oh. I know what I'd do. I'd I'd probably I'd do an expedition. Probably around the United States. Like raising awareness for sunscreen and just enjoy myself. If I couldn't fail and money wasn't an object, I would literally just drive around and educate people about sunscreen. sponsor kids activities that are like. sports related, like I love getting kids into sports and I think
that's, you know, an important, endeavor. And I would just talk to people, give them out free sunscreen and probably ride my motorcycle around. Try to do it all off road without getting on any streets.
[00:21:09] Jay: I love that. I love that. another first. Alright, well, you're fantastic, Melissa. What else, if people are trying to find you, or KOVR, or any of the other things that you've got going on, what's the best way for them to find you or your companies?
[00:21:22] Melissa: just go on our website is the easiest way. Just go to kovrup. com, that's K O V R U P dot com.
[00:21:29] Jay: Okay, all right. Well, I really appreciate your time. I hope you get out there on the paddleboard today I am jealous of that, but you're you're awesome and enjoy the rest of your week. All right
[00:21:40] Melissa: thank you very much, Jay. You do the
[00:21:41] Jay: You have a good one. See ya
[00:21:42] Melissa: you too. Bye bye.