[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today. I'm lucky enough to be joined by Mark Phinick of Let's Make It Rain. Probably one of the coolest business names of anybody I've had on the show. Mark, how are you buddy?
[00:00:41] Mark: I'm great. Thank you, Jay.
[00:00:44] Jay: So we're talking about football a little beforehand. He's in Chicago, Bears fan when they're playing well, Cleveland fan when they're playing well. So I'm not who he's going to sure who he's going to be a fan of this season if neither one are playing well, but we'll save him the trouble, this week.
by the way, people can't, See this, we were just listening, but Mark has a fantastic mustache and I feel like, it's a very Chicago mustache. what's the name? Norm from Cheers? Is that his name?
[00:01:07] Mark: I don't know if Norm ever had the mustache.
[00:01:10] Jay: other guy.
[00:01:11] Mark: Oh, Cliff.
[00:01:13] Jay: Cliff. That's the one. That's the one. There it is. Okay. All right.
All right. so Mark, Did you grow up in Chicago? And if you did, you know, did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur later in life?
[00:01:23] Mark: grew up in Cleveland. Ohio moves to Chicago in 84,and it was at that point in time that absolutely, where I was, formed my trajectory. I was with a scrappy startup companies and I watched them grow and I've participated in seven successful exits, as a result. Yeah, this, I just kind of fell into small companies and helping them grow.
[00:01:53] Jay: Tell me about those seven exits. I mean, what was kind of the overarching theme there? were you part of those companies and then they were exited? Did you help them exit? Like, what was the, what was your role there?
[00:02:03] Mark: Yeah, so, There's, an overarching theme that I might be the laziest person you've ever had on the call. and so what I found was that in Chicago, area and in the Midwest,there's a set of organizations that are going to be buying enterprise software. And that's my background.
I have a bachelor's in computer science. And I learned in my very first interview that computers were meant to sell, not use. and we're seeing that evidence today with cybercrime and all the issues associated with that. what I found was that, customers in the Midwest, they buy from, A set number of sellers and, I wanted to become one of those go to people. So, with each of the companies that I had been with, I basically approached organizations, befriended technical evaluators and asked what kind of technology was on their horizon. Well, guess what? Those were the vendors that I ultimately went to. And those were the vendors that ultimately, were acquired by much larger organizations as well as, moved into a, initial public offering position. So I was very fortunate to. Align myself to be at the right place at the right time with these organizations. learned an awful lot with every single one of them. They were all small, scrappy startup companies that we, ultimately sold to much larger organizations.
[00:03:33] Jay: I see you have a pretty good background in sales and sales coaching. And, how did you switch from development or, you know, background in computer science and kind of mentioned computers are meant to sell. how did you make that switch from, you know, more of a technical background to a sales kind of position?
[00:03:51] Mark: that was kind of thrust upon me through the interview cycle that I had with a couple organizations. I had spent four years at a well respected university, getting a bachelor's in computer science and literally, halfway through my very first interview. they asked me to just pause for a moment.
They brought in people, different people from marketing and said, look, you need to be in front of customers, not in front of computers. So it was, my first reaction to that was, no, you don't understand. I want to code and I still have a very strong passion and empathy for, I.
T. organizations who are in place right now to increase productivity and automation and security of these organizations. But it wasn't hard for me to make a transition. it took me a long time to, you know, to learn, what I now know, and I reserve the right to be smarter next week than I am today. but it's been a very rewarding career helping small and large organizations, improve their business as a result of technology. Yeah,
[00:05:03] Jay: You avoided being a, I'll just say annoying salesperson, or have you. You know, kind of just assume that some people are going to like it and some people aren't and you're going to go about your day, afterward, you know, is it some kind of mix there? How do you kind of view those pushy, annoying kind of salespeople?
[00:05:24] Mark: I don't think you can ever, I don't think you can ever overcome the stigma associated with being a salesperson. it's just the reality. And the best that I could do is learn to have empathy. for who I wanted to help. So I don't talk about selling. I really do. And I always have them.
I've always coached my teams on, framing your role as one that is helping your customers improve their business by buying your solution. I'm sure that I've. I'm sure I've annoyed many people in my career, but at the end of the day, I still get holiday greetings and holiday cards from some of my longest term customers.
We exchange family photos, we're, compadres, we're friends, and it's a result of me. focusing on making them wildly successful. I've always tried to pay it forward. I continue to do that and, I think that's the best that you can do. we're in a role as specifically enterprise sales people who are there to help their customers improve their business. The more you can focus on that. And make your technical advocates wildly successful. the faster you'll overcome the traditional stigma of being a sales person.
[00:06:55] Jay: I like that. So, there's a lot of companies that, I think, especially B2B. And the services sector that can serve a multitude of companies, right? Small businesses, medium sized businesses, enterprise businesses. The small to medium sized business sales cycle is shorter and somewhat easier because you can talk to decision makers and that sort of thing.
What advice would you give to a B2B services company or a B2B company that wants to go after enterprise? And it's just kind of, they hit that wall of like. They don't even know where to start. Like, what would you tell them to kind of start breaking that wall down to get into some of these bigger enterprise contracts, if they're used to the small business world,
[00:07:42] Mark: so let's agree first of all, that the greatest threat to any early stage company. Trying to sell into the enterprise, are stalled deals due to indecision, stalled deals due to the fact that, they don't have a technical advisor or a technical advocate or an executive sponsor, or a, clearly defined. Project plan that articulates ROI, it articulates the business case, it articulates the timing, the objectives, who's involved. this is a challenge. And when deals stall, two things happen. Number one, the customers are denied the increased efficiencies of the technology. that impacts an organization, if it's a security product, it impacts their brand equity. It impacts their, attack surface and impacts in the world of healthcare and impacts patients. and so, the notion of a stalled deal is my why, right? You listen to Simon Sinek, the circle of why, this is my why, the challenge that organizations faces, they're selling technology, they're selling features and functions, but they're not understanding, how their customers buy technology. So, invariably, an organization is going to put together a product marketing strategy. They're going to come up with great features, functions, things that get a technical evaluator's attention, but they're not necessarily helping the technical evaluator with a compelling proposal. They're sending a price quote, they're not necessarily giving the technical evaluator what they need to sell the technology internally for meetings that sellers just don't get invited to. The reality, Jay, is that most technical evaluators are doing this for the first time. They don't buy enterprise software every single day. Sellers do it every single day. So, what I call Rainmakers, which was the catalyst for my company name, Let's Make It Rain. what Rainmakers know how to do is to help their technical evaluators, their internal salespeople align with all the stakeholders, legal, sec ops, procurement, the right executives, and then have a mutually agreeable plan, for how to proceed. Not only with acquisition, but also successful implementation and perhaps most importantly, adoption.
[00:10:39] Jay: it sounds like you know what you're doing. so.
[00:10:41] Mark: I've done this for a while and, and, you know, I learn every single day. I really do. And I'll share with you where I learned the most. when I decided to launch this business and help. Early stage companies, avoid and advance stall deals so that they can achieve the growth and then the liquidity events that I've benefited from. The people who I've learned the most from are my former executives, people with whom I've worked in the past, people for whom I've worked and quite candidly. people who I've made the most money for. Those were the people who, were the, the most helpful in me launching my career, identified my ICP. the other group that I listened to and learned from every single day are my customers. What problems are they trying to solve? These are, there's the customers of my clients, if you will. So hospitals, banks, financial institutions, manufacturers. Where do they need to disrupt the status quo? Where do they need to increase productivity and profitability? where do they need to improve their business? Ultimately, that's what they're spending money on when they're buying software.
[00:11:57] Jay: So how did you go from, sales guy and coach, and, you know, just learning these things to kicking this business off or your actual steps for saying, okay, I'm going to go file an LLC. I'm kind of, you know, make this a business. What were your, tell me a little bit about that period of time.
[00:12:15] Mark: Sure. So, we've already said, I've been doing this for a while. And, I just love the profession of sales. I'm passionate about it. I've read... And written books. I just love the whole profession of helping others and paying it forward. as part of the seven exits that I've participated in, the last two involved sales of the technology to much, much larger organizations, most notably I B M in 2010. and, and it was at that point in time. Where I accepted another people manager role, but in a global capacity. And they gave me the opportunity to travel the world, evangelize the technology and help, sellers do what we're talking about today. Empathize with their customers, help their customers buy. Versus just selling, right? That's the nature of it is helping others buy because with a large enterprise, it's very complex. in 2018, an organization approached us and said, Hey, we want to buy that business from IBM. We want you as part of it. I joined five years later. we're in a role today where I look back and we've grown the business from here. To here helping thousands and thousands of organizations increase productivity, increase profitability, increase their security. And I said, you know what? It's time for me to do it on my own. It's time for me to pay it forward. And I looked at where I could pay it forward the most with what my expertise is and where it's needed most. And I heard the same thing from everybody who I used to work for and from customers. They told me the same problem that's happening with early stage companies over and over again. They've got enough deals, they've got a pipeline, and they don't close the deals. If I look at a traditional early stage company or even large organization, if I look at their sales pipeline, you've got a lot of deals. You know, we've done demonstrations, we've responded to RFIs, we've responded to RFPs, and everybody's excited and everybody's invested, and they're in c R M. So now they're visible to executives, potentially the board and the biggest bubble of deals. No surprise centers on organizations for whom we've submitted. pricing proposals and we've been ghosted. That's where things go quiet. Those are stalled deals and I've learned why these deals stall and I've also learned, you know, what organizations need to approve these deals. So I've put together a practice and I've helped, I'm helping these organizations. I'm helping their sellers get past that. One of the things, unfortunately, that I've seen is since COVID. Most what I'll call rainmaker sellers, people who have my gray hair, no hair at all, people who have been doing this for as long as I have,we're expensive to organizations because, benefits, insurance, payroll tax, and, there's a lot of people who have been part of reductions in force and they're now doing sales training, they're helping organizations. identify new prospects, build pipeline, create optimal emails to get customers attention. I chose to go where others fear to tread. I chose to go where CEOs of early stage companies are getting the most pressure. That's cash flow. That's deal flow. That's helping these COVID, in some cases COVID kids, younger, less expensive sellers. helping them understand what their customers need when they approve an enterprise software purchase. So, you know, my why in life right now has, it's the same why as always it's helping. Sellers increase their lot in life. It's helping them increase, or make their customers wildly successful.
[00:16:48] Jay: If you had to start your business over again tomorrow. What would be step one,
[00:16:57] Mark: If I were to start the business over again, I don't think there's a lot that I would do differently. One of the things that I learned was to, use Zoom, versus, versus other. technologies because it's easier every, it just works, more often than some of the technology and I know that's trivial, but you know, a lot of meetings start with 15 minutes wasted just getting technology working,
I think what I've, I think what I have found is that the more that I empathize with who my legacy customers are, and these are CIOs and CEOs and venture capital investors, people who I've helped in the past, the more I empathize and listen to them. about what the problem is. The more I listen to my current clients and understand what struggles they have in buying enterprise software, that's where I learn and I tweak and I pivot my value proposition and the services that I offer. it's been a fascinating journey.
[00:18:10] Jay: All right. I have one question, non business related. And this will be the last one. If you could do anything in the world and you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?
[00:18:21] Mark: Boy, I hate to sound cliche, but I'm doing it. I'm, I have a very strong family that's watched me, my entire career help my customers. My children knew my customers by name. My customers knew my children by name. I am a, I am a, career and, just passionate seller and,I'm living it. I, on Mother's Day, I told people that I was retired on the Monday after Mother's Day. I was told you'll never do that. You're denying your clients. You're denying your customers, the value that you provide. So I bought a Mac book. And I launched make it rain and, no, I'm living my dream.
[00:19:10] Jay: I love it. All right. Well, if people want to find you, Mark, if they want to find Let's Make It Rain, how do they do that?
[00:19:16] Mark: They can go to my LinkedIn post, or my LinkedIn profile is probably the best, Mark Phinick, P H I N I C K.
[00:19:25] Jay: All right. Mark, you're fantastic. I love, I loved, hearing your story. If people want to, you know, get a leg up and get some of these closed deals, close, or these deals closed and not stalled, I've got a guy now. So, Mark, enjoy the rest of your week and we'll talk to you soon. All right, buddy.
[00:19:40] Mark: Thank you, Jay.
[00:19:41] Jay: Thanks Mark. See ya.