The Golf Man. Barry Grimes

on anything, man, do not. You gotta watch what you say with Maddie because he kind of can fucking coming submarine another log fi. Nobody here here is get time. M H. Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Chanella. We're back at the fire Pit, which always feels good. We've been busy interviewing and editing season two, which will start dropping lead February. Among other things, you'll be hearing tributes to Charlie Sifford, Tony Gwynn, and longtime colleague and

friend Tim Rosafort. Haven't in reporting your story was like having rock heell Welch is your waitress. It's like I can't do any better than that. I mean, you just keep on coming back to the table, sweetheart. It asked me. If I want to water refill eleven times between now and in midnight, that would be just fine. Plus stories from Nancy Lopez, Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer and Lanny Watkins on Ben Hogan. Yes there's dear Landy and clothes with

my check for war dollars for your skins. Yesterday, with all the confusion of our intruder, I simply forgot this. I can't imagine this fellow doing that. It was my first experience of this kind. I really didn't know how to handle the situation except to just quit. Hopefully we can all have another game soon. All my good wishes for you at the US open at Marian. I know

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I think you should be aware of. But for now, with yet another mini pod, we're helping our friends at links So celebrate and honor the life of Barry Grimes, who, at the age of six, died of brain cancer last year. As you probably heard in season one of The fire Pit in the episode which told the story about the building of Ashworth, Barry Grimes was critical to the development and success of that brand, a brand I was in

love with as a kid. I never got to meet Barry grind but I've now heard a lot about him. He has survived by his wife Kristen, and his two sons, Paul, who was a freshman at a s U and chart a junior in high school. In this podcast, you'll hear why Barry Grimes was so special, and at the end of the stories, you can hear about how you can help the cause. We start with Jeff Cunningham, who, along with John Ashworth, is the co creator of Links Soul.

When I say Barry Grimes, Jeff, what do you say, oh, man, um genius? Probably first, Honestly, I've only met a couple people in that that I put in that rank, and I have them like and a little file in my head. Somebody that, no matter what they do, I just always looked up to and right off the bat, I mean, Barry just had that. I wasn't all Berry. I was fourteen. I think when I met him probably um, right off the bat. I've just never seen anybody like him. He's

just mesmerizing. If I don't meet Barry Grimes in L A and seven, We're not having this conversation. John Ashworth with more background on his buddy Berry. You know he had you know, he had longer hair than I do now. He had long hair beard. Uh. He was from Alabama. He only went to like maybe a year and a half of college, then dropped out and drove out to l A because he was an artist and he wanted to be in l A where the action was. And he did not have one lick of an accent. He

grew up in Alabama, you know, born and raised. You would have thought he was from l A. He could play the guitar like crazy, you know. Uh, he could draw and paint and he was funny. He was so down to earth and just would talk to anybody and listened, and and doing film and that whole world pre computer set up graphic. He could do all that and did that like our first ads were like film that you would do and then send off to the magazine. And

Jeff with more on why Berry was so special. Creativity relied so much on intuition, and it's so much intuition, but you can also get into a technical role with it too. Barry had this balance between the technical and the intuitive that you can really only find in like Jedi Masters, Jimi Hendrix. Like it's that level of where you've mastered the technical so well that it fuels your intuition and they work together in this harmony that you know,

become something else. It's like Ben Hogan is like it's it's it's expertise, really, but it's it's it's to another level. So it's like, and you see it an art all the time. You see people that are really intuitive but they're technical, they just crap. Or you see people that get really technical and they lose the field. And so photos, music, golf, swings, everything gets really tight, you know, and we've all experienced that before, and you you know, you lose that touch.

Barry had that ability to no is technical stuff inside out and backwards. Best I've ever seen a computer, best I've ever seen with a camera, any machinery, anything, there was new inside out and backwards. He took the time to know exactly why every bit of that thing did what it did, which people don't do anymore, and then kept his whole creativity the entire time too, which is just like you just don't see that. I mean, you know, and when you do, it's special, it's and it's and

it changes the face of things. And that's what Barry did. I mean, he changed the face of all these things. He's influencing people still and they might not even know they're being influenced. But if you've noticed that all these photographers right now in golf that are starting to look a certain way of whatever whatever. A lot of that stems from Barry. You know. Still, but back to seven for a second, when John Ashworth needed some help developing

his apparel idea. Here he is now on how he met Barry and why it was such a great fit. His friend of mine is going, I need to get a graphic artist. You know, this friend of mine that was a golfer. Lane Morey is his name, you know. He lived in l A And I go, Lane, I need I need to find it. He goes, Hey, I got this buddy of mine, Barry Grimes, who works at NBC Studios and he likes golf and he went to Scotland. And I go, great, give me his number. So it

gives me his number. I called Barry and I'm explaining about go Barry. You know, I'm trying to do this new clothing line, and I wanted to be sort of like, you know, old school meets new school. I'm really into walking and you know, the traditions of the game, but I wanted to be hip and modern. And you know, I'm just telling all this stuff, like, you know, I love Scotland. I've never been to Scotland. I've never been to Scotland. I love Scotland, he goes, I've been to Scotland.

You know. It's like, you know, so we're just talking on the phone, and unbeknownst to me, he's actually, you know, as artists do, he's actually stoodling in sketching. He actually drew the golf Man from that Converse station. The Ashworth brand, and specifically the golf Man logo, had an immediate impact on otherwise stagnant golf apparel industry. For more, we hear now from Jim Nance, Fred Couples and then John Cook,

three of the original Ashworth Ambassadors. Let me just take this opportunity to to add that Barry Grimes was someone who really captured the look of Ashworth two. He just his artistic flare and his ability to even create the golf Man logo. I mean, the golf Man logo was basically scratched on the back of a paper napkin, and that logo became a universal symbol for people that cared about the game of golf. The logo is incredible. Um it's it's I mean, can you argue I can't think

of another There are a lot of great legs. Don't get me wrong, but the Ashworth logo was something you know, Johnny oh Now with with his bordon and a guy standing standing next to it is a phenomenal logo, but I don't think it beats the Ashworth logo now golf Man. The golf Man was iconic. That symbolism went beyond guys

on TV wearing the product. It evolved into what Ashworth called the Ardage Book, an annual fashion magazine or style book that showcased a year of memorable imagery of the Ashworth Ambassadors, more from Nance, Couples and Cook on the photo shoots. Well, John came up with the idea of we ought to have the Yardage Book and we can make it into almost like a magazine. We can distribute at the green Grass, all the shops, and we can tell stories in their right articles and in the body

of that of that magazine. We can also have some pretty cool photos and we can also put them on our hand tags. The photo shoots. You know, there's a guy, Barry Grimes, who's who's really really he's not doing that well right now. And I told John the other day and I texted Barry and I said Barry. This is nothing to do with you being ill. I said, you were by far the most fun of anything I've ever done in golf, and you made the shoot so easy.

And I get a little edgy because you know, I don't like kind of taking pictures and doing all that. And we did so many weird things, John and so many fun things that uh, I think Ashworth knew you know what John Cook and I liked, and we wrote in cars and then of course later on Ernie Els hopped in and of course one and open wearing the clothing, and this thing just took off and and now everyone has the same kind of clothing. It's it's it's been a wild ride and started way back in eight seven.

You never shot at me this stuff in digital, like the idea I was thinking about Vegi, Like I go out and I shoot a thousand shots for a photo shoot. Barry took maybe five rolls of film and that the most, and it's like thirty pictures at a time, and he

got all those shots. I mean, I used to be so stressed out because you know, I mean, you take this film, you know when you put it, there's those big four by five cameras or wherever they were, and you know, you had to have the setting right, you had to have a meter write, it had to be loaded right, you know, and then you'd have to take it and do it and market and put in a plastic bag, and you know it was like kind of stressful. Really when you're on a photo shooting, you got two

hours and kind of figure out what to do. And the photo shoots were just an amazing experience because it wouldn't be anything like you would think of a photo shoot would be. Like remember the shot of Fred and the water that was the second time, totally dude Barry put it was we didn't have a water housing and he was like, let's get I wanted because it was rain gear or whatever. And he was like he got Fred in the pool and because he didn't have a

waterhouse and he has biggest glass camera. You know, it's like camera was an aquarium from my house. He put it, no I know, and you put it in the aquarium, steal the the aquarium and put it in the aquarium and went underwater with the aquarium and shot Fred through an aquarium. Cool, unreable. Ash Worth really took care of us and I can tell you right now. I did a few photo shoots in some areas that, uh, they got no clearance. You know, John Ashworth and Berry would

go find a spot. I'm sure you've seen it where I'm hitting on the railroad tracks. I can tell you two or three times we hopped off the railroad tracks down underneath it. The train would go. Buy in Dallas and it's probably you know, I I have the shot somewhere. We went through Palm Springs with Cookie and I living there. We were in areas that you know, like like, well, if the cops come, we just pack up our stuff and leave. And I'm like, so are we you know,

are we supposed to be here? We we don't know, you know. So all of it was was really kind of fun and it was not nerve rat it was just it was just entertainment. It was never boring. And trust me, as you get older, you know some sometimes you don't want to do things. But John and I and then Ernie Els and Mark we the we were

the guys leading. But really John Ashworth led us and and Barry Grinds what a photographer, and he made us look like golfers but cool guys too, and I you know, I don't usually say that, but I felt like kind of a cool guy. We still that's that's still the model for every but the model is not shooting on

a golf course and getting as gritty. And at first I was kind of like, really, we're gonna go to this warehouse that there's shipped all over the ground whatever, And then yeah, it's like, okay, let's go against the grain. You know, it's not gonna look like anybody else. I mean, we actually did the hall the black and white stuff because A we couldn't afford color. It was twice as expensive, but b it just looks so cool because it just

stood out. It didn't look like any stupid ads you know that were some guy in a golf course with a red sweater on and you know, perfect green grass or whatever. Obviously, whatever they did and how they did it was working. The Ashworth brand achieved rock star status. Couples won the Masters, cook was winning multiple tour events, els won several major championships wearing Ashworth. From selling shirts out of John Ashworth's trunk, both he and Barry built

a ninety million dollar business. You know, it was just sort of a period of time where everything lined up. You know, everything just clicked into place. I mean, and without even thinking about it or knowing. It was just sort of this timing of everything happening. And you know, it's a ton of hard work, but it was just all happening. That was then this is now more from Jeff Cunningham. John told me that you are too link soul what Barry was to Ashworth. What's that mean to you?

That's a ton, Yeah, I could see that. And it's interesting. Ashworth was so much Barry's baby, like there was no I mean, you know, we talked honestly about going back to Ashworth and and fixing it up, and I was thinking on my head, you just you can't do it without Barry, like it was his thing. And and John and him, they they had that I I learned. I mean, Ashworth for me was grad school for this and where all this stemmed from. But that was his baby and and as much as this is my baby and John's

baby too. So I asked Jeff how and why Barry still influences his design and photography. It's funny because I still have his voice in my head pretty much daily, especially in photography and graphic design, because it wasn't just photography with Barry, he knew graphic design. Maybe I don't know. Johnny would say he probably knew that better. I mean, I didn't even know anything about fonts and type a

graphy and all these things. And Very study that stuff endlessly and could point out he knew every single font that ever showed up and everything. He could name it, every every part of it. And he and he could see when things were imperfect. And you know, it's one of those things that could drive you crazy. And I think that very kind of went crazy with it a little bit sometimes. But at the same time, it pushes me in my head all the time, like what would

Bury do here? Like is he would he keep going? Would this be? You know, am I willing to put this in the world looking like this? Or should I actually take another hour at two o'clock in the morning and make this thing look even one step better? Did you get a chance to ever communicate to him what he meant to you? Did you ever get a chance before he left to just, you know, let him know how much you appreciated him or what he meant to you. I didn't. I didn't, and I and it's it's it's

usually something that would haunt me. But it doesn't haunt me because I feel like he at some point because I've I've followed him so much and and it's so clear how he changed my photography and my graphic design all the time. But I think in the end he probably had to see all that as an homage in a way I would if I were him, because I mean it was very clear and I and I just felt like he knew that for some reason. And I

feel like he knows that now wherever he is. I just I feel like he's still out there guiding things. So yeah, I asked John Ashworth if he thought Barry Grimes left this world feeling respected and appreciated. He was struggling with brain cancer, so you never know what's going on what's really important. I don't know how much that

was important to him. You know, he has two kids and two beautiful kids, a beautiful wife, and that's why we're you know, Jeff and I. It's Jeff's idea, which is a fabulous idea to take one of his photographs it's timeless, and put it into a T shirt so that we could actually you know, they're going through a big transition. Obviously, they don't have their key breadwinner, and you know, kids are in college, senior in high school, so you know, we're trying to raise some money just

to just to help him out a bit. So I I you know, I think, you know, I think he was very secure with what his talent was and how he was respected. For sure, Um, I'm not sure, you know, at that point in his life. It was a big priority to to realize that. You know, I was lucky. I got a chance to kind of spend a fair amount of time, you know, towards the end with him, and uh, I felt like he was pretty, he was

in a good place. You know, something like that shouldn't happen to anybody, but you know, it's shouldn't have happened to him. Link Soul has used the making and selling of T shirts to contribute to a worthy cause. Unfortunately, lately they've had several worthy causes and with your help, they're making a difference. But we've reached this this new thing with Links Soul in this Corona year, COVID year,

where you know, we're starting to realize. But it's always kind of been a goal of ours to to give back as many ways we possibly can um with what we make and what we're good at. So it's been working this year with the charity T shirts for COVID Relief and make part of War Foundation, all that stuff we've you know, we're raised like three dollars this year just through three T shirt designs and plus you know

like Johnson and over and over again links. So it wouldn't be here, This wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for Barry too. So it's the least we can do. The Barry Grames photograph they chose to put on the T shirt is a pin flag whipping in the wind. For me, it's a strong one. I think it's just catches soul and it catches um, you know, time and

golf and everything in one little moment. You know that those brief little things you see, And that's what he was so good at, was all those things we see as golfers when we're walking around, you know, before Instagram, before all this stuff. Barry caught all those things that you know. That's what that's what made it, That's what made the ashworth two is that like he was catching those soulful moments in the moment that we all see when we're walking around plan but we just didn't ever

get on film. And Barry started capturing when all those and putting them out and joining people, and they were like, oh, yeah, I love that about golf. I love the way the shadow hits that bunker right there, you know, at this

time of day, etcetera. We didn't have a million Instagram accounts to see all this stuff all over the place, so you know, he was He was the o g It is a beautiful it's a beautiful photograph, have an esoteric sort of timeless, otherworldly look to it, and it is very quintessential Barry Grimes too, isn't Yeah for sure. So let's pour some out for Barry Grimes to his life a legacy and his family. To purchase the Grimes

T shirt, go to link soul dot com. All proceeds will help Barry's family and their future On behalf of Kristen, Paul and Charlie, thank you for your support of one of golf's greatest influencers. Lastly, and on a lighter note, one more quick reflection of memory from John and Jeff. I don't know it was. We had so much fun

together too. Honestly, we had so much freaking fun just figuring it out as we went and like bouncing ship off and I'd be up at his you know, I we we'd always pull all nighters because you know, we're trying to lay out either the catalog or something print wise or do you know whatever, usually catalog or annual report. Being a public company, we had to do an annual report anyway, and he was he was kind of a procrastinator. With the best we got, we called it OPT to

my eazy that was it wasn't procrastination. We feel like we'd get the most out of it the closer we came to the dentaline