No.14: BONUS EPISODE- Beating Bryson

Made Bertie. This was a whole locase that was inaccessible to me, And I thought, I cannot beat him. And you know what, He's in the Hall of Fame. And I sit in a chair and talk for a living. Power has always ruled and it will always rule. But that doesn't mean Kim and can't make a hell of a living and entertain us long the way. Another log five well by years time. Welcome to the fire Pit

with Matt Jonella. Welcome back to a special production of The fire Pit episode thirteen B If You Will, a mini podcast put together after my recent interview with Kevin Kisner was coming off a third place finish at the Rocket Mortgage Classic in Detroit. Bryson D Shambo won the event at under, Matthew Wolf finished second. Kisner was third at eighteen under. But to say Bryson one was not really the story. If you watched or follow even a sliver of golf on social media, you know Bryson one

by overpowering the golf course and the competition. As you probably know by now, D Shambo added weight, strength, tweaked his swing, and added eighteen plus yards of distance to his drives. I had Kisner on to talk about his match with Riggs and the Boys of the four Play podcast at Pinehurst. For more on that story, Part two of Riggs's ninety nine Days at Pinehurst will drop this Sunday.

But before we get to talking about trying to beat a four man scramble squad for charity, Kissner and I had a short back and forth about trying to beat a guy who was out driving him by sixty yards. I took the D Shambo chunk of our conversation and played it for Brandon Shamble, analyst for NBC Golf Channel. Here are snippets of my conversation with Kissner. With Shamble's commentary throughout yev Are you good man? How you doing

nice week? Yeah? It was good. If you had another eighteen holes, I think you would have want that thing. I don't know if anybody can ever be BiCon man. That's like video game golfer him right now? What blows my mind as you've got guys like I mean, you've got a lot of long guys on tour obviously Rory and and and the guys like you know, pen Now

and DJ and stuff. How can this guy come and all of a sudden just at eighteen yards you know, on this incredible um as Cam Champ, nobody talks about anymore. You're how when he came out he was heitting a three thirty and three forty and now nobody even thinks about him anymore. I think what's caught everybody by a surprise, and there's so shocking is because there was there was a baseline. We knew who Bryson de Shambo was before and at the end of last year he said, I'm

gonna come back. You guys are not going to recognize me, and we hear that all the time, but it's true. We don't recognize him, not physically and then not in its totality what he is as a player. He's completely you just you all these guys are unbelievably disciplined. They are. They're incredibly hard working guys who can almost do anything you tell him to do. But to see someone make that kind of leaps what everybody has cut everybody by surprise.

And I understand the frustration of some of the shorter hitters because you know, I was one of them. I can understand looking at what Bryson is doing and thinking I can't compete with that. But they can't and and and Kevin certainly still can't too. Dude, this guy is uh, He's literally going to push the U. S j A to do something. This is going to be that. This is the this is the tip tipping point. There's no

you can't. If he shows up to Augusta, if he makes a mockery of Augusta National after they've made all these changes, then you know, what's what would he do with thirteen? What? What? What? He'll just send it over the top of the trees. I know. Look, there's a definite before and after with him. So I'm very curious to see what Bryson does in major championships. He's had a fabulous run up to this year and not finished in the top fifteen in a major, hadn't finished better

than twenty players. Um, so it's clear that he was missing something in the majors. But he I would be surprised if he was able to hit his irons as inaccurate as he did at the Rocket Mortgage and not suffer the consequences in a major championship. I would similarly be surprised if he was able to stray as far from the fairway. Even though we love to pretend there's no penalty Augusta National, there is. I mean there is. You get out of position and you pay a stiff

penalty there. You can't just overcome your inability to get the angle with trajectory on every single hole. So yeah, I'm curious to see what he does at Augusta National. But you know, on thirty five approach shots at Rocket Mortgages thirty five out of seventy two, he lost strokes with his approach. So he was able to overcome that with the best putting week of his career. Okay, he's driven it better than he drove it at Rocket Mortgage,

but he never putted that. Well, you chat. You take any player's best putting week on the in their history on the PGA Tour, and they're if they're decent, teed degreen, they're likely to win or come close to winning. So overlooked is the the unprecedented week he had on the greens. If he does that at Augusta National Shore, you'll be in the hunt, but you'll have to mix that. You'll have to overcome poor iron play, and he's yet to do that because his iron play is still a question mark.

Maddie Maddie on eighteen at Detroit, I pounded it off the t and I ran through the fairway at three eighteen into the first cutter rough. Okay, three eighteen, that's a long way for me. Yeah, I had one sixty two to the hall. Bryson had nine yards. That's it. That's all you need to know. You don't need to play. I can't beat them unless I have eighteen butts, you can't beat them. I remember I was at the Pinehurst US Open and this was this was this would have been,

and Tiger was thirty. Tiger played with Lee Westwood and Corey Paven Okay, Tiger Lee. Uh went every I followed fre eighteen homes. Every time there was a driver hole, it went like this, Uh Corey Paven, then thirty yards that had Lee Westwood than thirty yards had Tiger Woods. You basically are Corey Paven at three eighteen right, and he's Tiger at three or whatever whatever that that's that he's at like three eight Oh yeah, I was sitting bas in the travelers. He hit two oh three balls speed.

I mean if he went into the long drive contest, he would actually he would contend. If he extended with length of his driver, he would win. He had two hundred three boss speed. I got hit on the map every time too. But the other thing, like I said in the text, and he's putting. You know, those long drive guys can't hit irons and they can't put. This guy can actually put again, I understand Kevin's frustration. Kevin is a hundred and twelve mile in our club head

speed hundred twelve and change. Okay, four years ago and three years ago two thousand seventeen, Kisner was one twelve and change. The Shambo was one seventeen and change. So five is an hour separated okay, but what what the Shambo did was making changes at a huge risk for distance. Hey, Kevin Kissner is a one twelve guy who who makes whose golf swing is built around hitting it straight. He doesn't even have a high distance um for club head

speed deficiency. You know, he's a hut right, So he could hit it higher and and spin it less and get more bang for his buck with club head speed. Right. But if you do that, the ball gets slippery in the air and you risk any more fairways. Okay, so that's a risk. He could also look Bryston made changes in his golf swing for power. One of those was to straighten his right leg and his back swing. Okay, straighten it very soon, okay, and get deep into his

right here, deep into his right heel. Kevin Kissner is a He's a believer that you should keep your right knee flexed. Okay, if you keep your right neflex you will never ever swing as fast as you can. There's only one guy that really does that, and that's that's brook Kepta. Now, Brooks is a behemoth of an individual and very quick with his club head speed. But he's the only person I've ever really seen have that kind of power maintaining the flex of his right knee. But

Kissner does that. Now, if Kidsner wanted to take the risk of straightenedge his right leg on his backs when lifting his left heel the same way Bryson changed right and making all those things, Kisner could probably pick up five mile hour club head speed. He could, but it comes with a huge risk. Okay, because look at Kissner has been on tour for an eon since two thousand eleven,

with the last two thousand fifteen two. Now he's only missed the Tour Championship once and he was forty six even that year, so his bad year is still good. He's making millions of dollars questions, would you risk that for huge gains and distance? That's what's amazing about Bryson de Shamba because most people wouldn't risk what Kevin Kisner has. He's a hell of a player, umbill eviable player who would risk that risk all that to become a beheamoth

off of the tea. That's what's amazing to meet and then pull it off. Now, Bryson pulled it off with knowledge, with science, with testing. He didn't just go into the gym and throw a weight around and change his body for vanity reasons. And I would even argue that only about five miles an hour of this club head speed that he's picked up is because of his body. The

rest of it is because of his golf swing changes. Also, they look at that shot, you know, eighteen nin eight yards flew right in there, the three feet tapped it in the wind. That's over, man. I told my teacher, like a year and a half ago, I kind of saw this trend coming with all these young guys. I said, buddy, we better make hay the next couple of years because my time is running out quickly. Yeah, well, there's but

that that you know. First of all, you'll always you can have you You're You're the type I mean, look at look at Charles how look at Jerry Kelly, look at there are guys who are just good, good at good at getting the ball in the whole. So if you're gonna get the ball in the whole, you can, You're gonna you can. You can have a twenty year career. Yeah, but I don't want. I want to compete and win. I can't stand like Charles Howe's career drives me crazy.

I'd want to quit. And the guys made like forty million bucks or sixty million bucks, but I mean to finish thirteenth every week. I fuck that. I'm out. If I don't have if I don't have a chance, I don't even want to play. You know, there's all there will always be a handful of courses out there where guys like Kevin Kisner. You know, look Jordan's face. H he's only one mile hour faster. When Jordan had all those phenomenal, that phenomenal run, he was betweening one mile

hour faster Kevin Kisner. So again, I get it, there's a frustration when you see that, but it's a knee jerk reaction. There's always gonna be room for people who play golf like Kevin Kisses. There's not many people that can't play golf like Kevin Kisner. But you look at Colonial, he won there, Hilton hit He's almost won there. Okay, the TPC players, the TPC uh Jacksonville, he's almost one there. These are the type of golf courses. Rocket Mortgages is

a Donald Ross. There's there's there's seven, eight, nine, ten of those golf courses. And then he can still compete on longer venues. He just has to have extraordinary weeks. But power has always been a huge asset on the PG eight Tour, almost going back to the inception of the Varden Trophy. With very few exceptions, the people who win the Varden Trophy, people who have the lowest scoring average on the PGA Tour, are long with some modical

ability to hit it straight. So there's always that's always going to be the case. But Kevin Kissler is racking up millions of dollars um. Look, this guy just came out. Colin Moore color Hey, Colin Moore Kawa is at the beginning of his career. Kevin Kissler is sort of in the middle of his careers thirty six. You know, maybe

he hangs in there another ten years, um. But Colins just beginning his and Collins outside the top hundred and driving the distance, and we we talked about him as a player who could be a superstar because he has a very well rounded game. Every fast of his game works. So you know, let's check back in ten years and

we'll see what Colin Morcale has done. As this game has become even more insanely about power um than it already is because and I'm with Kevin on this, I agree, two hundred mile an hour ball speed and no, um, you know, Bryson couldn't compete in long drives right now. He couldn't. He'd have to get ball speed up to fifty um okay, and he's he gotta. You know, he got ball speed at Rocket Mortgage last week, so he wouldn't even snip competing, uh in long drive. Okay. They're learning,

they're learning from watching how they create speed. So Bryson to Shambo just on the he was on the range at the bay Hill event of Nornal Palmer Invitational, and Eddie Fernandez, known as Fast Eddie, he's number one in the world from forty to fifty and driving distance okay, and that senior division he's number one. Now, these are the people that Bryson works with his longtime coach Mike Shay, but more recently with Chris Como and Chris Is. He's gone to Lucas Wald's School for Power. He went to

Mock three School for Power. Talking to George Gankis, so you know the Mock three guys all learned from this fellaing in Kevin, Mary are so he's tapping into Como, He's tapping into Lucas, he's tapping into George, going back and tapping into the knowledge of Kevin, Mary car More Cook, Kella Mary Are And he's tapping into all that knowledge and then he and then he put it to work. It's really cool to see. But they're all learning from long drive guys. This goes to Jamie Slowski. How did

Jamie Slowski? We weighed a hundred and sixty pounds, what I way have a ball speed about two miles? How did you do it? Well, they all learned from him, and then they mapped out They use pressure plates. They traced his pressure right, and they studied his golf swing and they use that with with sort of uh legendary principles of Jack Nicholas's Sam Sneed and they morphed them together and they came up with these ideas and Bryson is their getta pick and and up. You know, everybody's

paying attention because it's cool. Well, we're rediscovery knowledge of the past, the golf swinger, Sam Sneed and Jack Nicholas and Vnehoven and they're using it now with a little bit of tweak that Jamie Silowski pressure plates, so you're now where all that comes from. And also you watch Bryson before he hits the golf shot and he breathes real fast. He does that, Okay, that's the prime his central nervous system. And then his fast back swing is

to excite the muscles. These are things that he trained to do. He learned to do these things, hey, to to prime a central nervous system to excite his muscles. Nobody, you can go back and you used to listen to it. And I'm not detigrating the the lessons, but was Jack Nicholas. Cities had never moved, but it did. Jack Nichola said, you couldn't swing the golf club back slow enough. Right now. There's a lot to be set for tempo and rhythm

and consistency. But if you're looking for power, Nobody in the long drive or the longest teachers, they're not taking the club back slow, Okay, They're zipping it back there. And they do that to excite the muscles. And to the degree that this game becomes more about power, you're gonna see more and more guys excite the muscles the way Bryson Shambo is that's what we've got going on are here, which is really cool. This is science and

athletics and science and art. It's blended together. It's it's it's cool, but there will always be room for the Kevin Kissers of the world. You're doing whatever you're doing, you you look like you know, it just kept getting better. It looked pretty easy to me. I don't know the best shot. I hit all dabis on that part five and may Par hit it right at it with a three iron and went over the green. That was the moment I go, man, kiss has got it. Actual. I

was actually texting with Riggs. I was like, this guy could actually if if if Bright and Bryson was in the what Bryson hit hid in the water on his punch out and I go up and then and then hee, there we go. Eventually we got to the idea of

acknowledging Bryson's commitment to his craft. The part I didn't understand about, Like you know, I said in my interview when they asked me about and said, obviously he's got way too much time on his hands, but the world in a general would never put the time or effort in that he did to make this happen, So why are we not celebrating him? Like, holy shit, if I really want to work that hard, I could also hit

three ninety. But I'm not going to. Okay, I'm I'm content with third place and how and a few kids and drinking a few beers at night. He's not. But I mean, it's like she asked me Amanda on on Sunday, I'm like, I mean, that's the consummate professional, right. He figured out what he has to do to kick everybody's ass,

and then he spent the time to do it. How many people in this world besides you know, Tiger Woods and Lebron James and the late Kobe Bryant, actually took that much time to hone their craft in and be the best. Yeah, I agree, you know, you have to applaud the effort he you know, i'd say when he said he figured it out, I mean, he didn't know it would work. He thought it would you know. It was hypotheses that uh that he that he tried out.

You know, he went to the lab, got the beakers out, the buns of burners and went to work, you know, and and it and it and it absolutely it was really cool. To see. Um. You know, I'm trying to think of other players who who've Yeah, I mean Tiger Woods is the most notable I think exception of building and destroying, but he was when he went from the

best in the world, destroyed it, theyven rebuilt it. This is kind of like Nick Faldo going from a place of doubt and then recreating things, breaking them up because they weren't they weren't great, they weren't the best. They were good, they weren't the best. And so this is more along the lines of Nick Fouler or Marco Mirror, you know who who had some success but not great success in the professional golf and then broke it up

and decided to take the risk. Along those lines, this is not I don't think personally, I don't think this is equivalent of what Tiger did you know? Tiger did you know? The object of sport is to be consistent, to dominate. That's what everybody dreams of doing. You can be consistent. There's lots of people like that, like Kucher and web Simpson. You can dominate, and not many of those,

just a few, you know. We think VJ Seeing in two thousand four put those two together, and that's Tiger Woods, and then Tiger Woods willfully dismantled those golf games and they rebuilt them. That's the most mind bothering thing in the game. What Bryson has done is just taking all of the information out there about how to generate power and then assembling it and doing it. Look, it's not that it's I mean, okay, I mean, is it that hard? Phil did it last year at forty nine years of age. Okay,

Cameron tor Gali to some extent, did it. Um. You know there there are players that are putting a joke all the time. You can look at Bryson de Shambo. You can look at his body transformation, that metamorphosis of zeke and you can go out. It takes a lot of time, it does. Okay, you don't really have to do that. Look at Bubba Watson. Bubba Watson hit it past Dustin Johnson, he passed Brooks kept it putting past in. It passed everybody. Biceps are that bigger round. Okay, Hey,

he didn't go to the gym. You see him without a shirt on. You turn the other way. You don't want to look, Okay, And why does Bryson do that people want to say, well, he's got this freakish golf swing. They no, No, he doesn't doesn't have a freakish golf swing. He's not a freak athlete. He just has a golf swing that has all the elements of power in it. Maximize his shoulder tern, maximizes hit turn, frees up his

lower body, gets his hands high. Okay, which allows you to have a full of shoulder turn, gives you all at the time to build speed. Dropped down extends guess who did that, Sam Sneak, Jack Nicholas, John Daly. You can go to the gym, do all that you want, and then if you resist, like brooks Kepka does, Okay, you need to go to the gym. Probably I don't know, because you've gotta be explosive. But if you can, you're gonna not do any of that and look like Bubba Watson.

And by the way, Bubba Watson has a beautiful family and uh it doesn't spend two hours in the gym. So you know. What Bryson did was tap into the power elements of Bubba Watson's golf swing. He added some elements of accuracy, which with Jordan's speece and that's sort of the broken left arm and impact. So he blended power elements with accuracy elements. He did put in the time to sort of mesh those two and then he transformed his body. So yeah, but yeah, he's twenty six,

Kevin Kissers thirty six. Bryson's at the beginning of his life, not married, doesn't have kids. To Kevin's point, but I'd argue the larger part of this puzzle comes from the changes in his golf swing, not the changes in his diseast. I always appreciate Brandell's analysis in place in the game, and the more you get to know Kevin Kisner, the

more you appreciate his personality and fresh perspective. Later this week, we continue with Kissner his relationship with Riggs of Barstool Sports and the four Play podcast crew and the match they had at Pinehurst number two. Part two of Riggs is ninety Days at pine Hurst drops this Sunday. In the meantime, Last question, because I ask everybody who's a guest,

what is your favorite fire pit? Do you have a place that you that's your favorite fire pit, HANGSZ one or or somewhere that that that you always like to sit around and with your best buddies. Well, I love the fire pit and a few of my hunting locations, but I'll tell you one that most of you all have access that I think is the greatest in the world. Is that is that in Spanish Bay out there a pebble at the end, I mean, with the bagpiper looking at that ocean. That's one of my most favorite places

in the world. And if if you can't relax sitting out there by those fire pits, uh, I don't know how you do it. That John Cook. I've had John Cook on and he said he said the Actually I probably two or three people have said the fire pit at Spanish Bay. I don't like the golf course. I love that fire pit, man, and the hotel is one of the best in the in the in golf. So I've never playing the golf course, but I don't mind drinking wine out there listening to that bagpiper, that's for sure. Kids,

thank you so much for your time. I know I I went a little long, but I appreciate you man. Thanks for thanks for doing this. Hey, hey, next match, maybe I'll go and dust your ass them where you can bring your h shots up here and I'm not afraid to lose. I'm not all right, man. I appreciate you having me on. Man, take it easy, keep up

the great work, man. We'll see you later. Are you looking for good value on great golf apparel as a listener to this podcast, my friends John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham at Link Soul in Oceanside, California are offering you a discount on all future orders of what I Wear All Day, every day, on and off the course. Whenever you go to link soul dot com, just use promo code matty G M A T T Y G. Thank you for listening to the fire Pit. It's produced by

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