Need A 4th?! Ep. 9 with Gary McCord

super comfy and stylist. But for Michael Bamberger, it's more than a shoe. It's a lifestyle. It's it's almost a worldview. Michael. That's well said. Alan. Now, Alan, we've known a show that a long time. You know all my moves, You even know all my trivia questions. I probably have posed this one to you before, and this relates. Did you mentioned Gary McCord? I did, but yeah, I was drowned out, but I thought you did. But when when McCord came on tour, the term that the term of the art

as it relates to a shoe was still very popular. Alan. It's the covering of the laces that used to be popular and there's a reason why I'm going here. Do you know that term? And I think I probably posed this question to you before, like guilty guilty is correct? Now now, Alan, you know as you as you indicate it is. It's a, it's a. It's the same my attachment. The Echo shoe is a statement on life. I just did google Echo and guilty. They do make a shoe with a guilty So hats off to Echo for keeping

the old traditional life. Only you could be this excited about the guilty. But we do love Echo shoes. We thank them for their support. Now let's get to Need a Fourth with Gary McCord. Hello, this is Alan Schip knuck back for another Need a Fourth podcasts, in which myself, co host Jeff Ogili Mick Obamager take turns surprising each other with mystery guests. Um are the person that their

name might be on the zoom screen. Perhaps Michael and Jeff have not noticed this, but I will say that he's a winner on the Ben Hogan Tour, and he's a winner on the Senior Tour, but not in the tour you would play in between. Hopefully there there's a vast middle of his career that's winless but has made a great career for himself and TV um, this guy have a mustache older than you are in yours. I'm I'm afraid it probably does the Yes, the most famous

mustache and golf Darnet Bamberger has seen the zoom. He knows who this is. Gary mccoord, Come on down, hello, boys, Gary, what's going on? Thank you for doing this. You know your name has come up in a few previous podcasts where Brandel Shambilie mentioned you. I think Jeff mentioned that you guys played a lot of golf together back in

the day. So why why don't you, Why don't you take us to your long relationship with with co host Jeff Ogilvie and and tell us give us a little dirt on the man if you, if you would, Yeah, Jeff, Jeff showed up from down under to Scottsdale, Arizona, and he showed up at Whisper Rock and one of the young studs that were out there. So I got I got to see him and know him many many many years ago. And uh, we had we had a great time out there. We were we were going at it. Now.

I was younger then much younger, and I could play just a little bit, but I never could handle Jeff. But he was fun because all the young there's a lot of young guy who got thirty five guys out there from the tour, so a lot of young guys. So you get to you get to watch their development and watch how they kind of go through their golfing life and their social life too, because Jeff lived there and we got to become pretty good friends, and we had a lot of good, good fun out there, a

lot of good fun. It's a fun play. Gary told me how to play. That was frightening. I would I wouldn't get that out. I know it was very competitive that you were competitive. I mean we uh it was. It all started going downhill when you start of wanting

the United shots. Well yeah, I mean it gets to the point I'm going frontis on h shots, not you know, a hundred years old and and you know you're playing the way you were, um and uh get we just played when we played two months ago, three months ago, months ago, like your asshole, if he shot sixty six

or six seven, I shot eight five. So yeah, I need some strokes and I need some a lot of low I've actually always wondered if in a in a practice round, if you were you know, an aging Marco mirror and you're playing a practice round against peak Tiger Woods, do you ask for strokes or what is the pro code? As long as they have a tour card, you can't ask for strokes? F another pro like, how does that? Well? Just I'll give you at the rock. We all have

our handicaps, Okay. Um. The bad thing is like Jeff when he's playing on the tour, I think they they allow like it's like one and a half points, um more. His scores count because he's in competition. Okay, Now mine are not in competition, and I'm out there and my my credo that is it's not what you shoot, it's what you post. So if I'm gonna go play Jeff Ogilvie and John Rams out there and all those guys, I need a lot of strokes. Now it's not even

the contest. So back in the day, I need some help because they're just they You find out how good these guys are when you sitting next to him and you're playing for cash where they don't want to lose, and they're gonna hit it eight yards by it, and then you've got to negotiate and how to get how to get it down from there. And as Jeff knows, the only club I had my bag ever was my mouth. And I just if I can just get on guys and keep going and keep going and just get him

to they're just piste off. And that's when you got some kind of chance. But otherwise I have no chance. I'm not absolutely not, but it is but fun in it and it and it develops. I mean, Jeff was when he first came out, there was really a quiet, introverted guy. Um And we played a lot, and Jeff started after you know, a year or two, and he started coming back at me with stuff. So I I a lot of these kids. It's fun to get them going competitively and then see what they've got verbally, Jeff,

which is beat you and just not say anything. And then Jeff along the way, at some point started getting really good with the needle and um and and I was very proud of that development, very proud, not that I didn't but the fact that that he got a needle. He got a needle. Jeff, will you just give us a quick analysis and accord and swing, because Uh. I remember when he played and he my memories ahead. He had a tall lang with long backswing, beautiful rhythm, and

he looked like a guy who's going to win on tour. Yeah, he's comfortably the most self depreciating golfer I've ever met, and I've met a few. Um, he was very good. He had a good action. I wouldn't say it was long when I played with him, but he was already gray when I started playing with him. He had length to the swing. Yeah, it was a very nice swing. He looked he hit it straight old. Um said that he wasn't going to but did. Um. A short game was cool, a little shut stands short game that he

learned from somewhere. He played like a pro who had been playing for fifty years, who had picked up tips from everybody. You know. Um, and really really good good putter, especially while talking. Um could make six footers for while talking through it. I think he was trying to distract you in case he missed it, but he might have every time. So Um, he's a very I'm derighted. Golf are really good. I don't know how he didn't win on the big stage. Actually, how did you not win?

On the big stage. I was. I was, as you know, if I had to go back and take a look at it. And I played the tour from seventy four, told about started CBS and eight six, so right around you I kind of quit some nineties and seven four to nineties. That's that's a long time to be really bad. And and I and as Jeff knows, I I kind of started off slogan. I tapered off kind of one of those deals and I never could get it back. And mentally, you get you get out there and you

get depressed. You get you constantly sitting in a hotel room thinking about how bad you are, and pretty soon you've become bad. And that's kind of what I did. Uh. I had a little bit of knowledge of the golf swing, not much because in my era when we came up, it was empirical. You would go out on the range, you hit balls, and if one went bad, you gotta don't remember that when it went good, remember that swing.

We never had cameras, we never had anything. So we beat balls and figured out how we could do it. And it's not a really good speed learning situation. Um. And so I had no clue what I was doing. I beat the hell out everybody in in college and the mini tours, and then when I got out there into that and everybody there was I was an NC double A champion College division, which was a smaller division, and I went out there and everybody was n C

double A champion, the big schools, and they were. I remember my first tour school I went to, I'm playing the last round of Lanny Watkins and David Graham and I had and I was shelter. I didn't play, started playing golfs fifteen. I remember I went back home when I told these guys, I said, I played with some guys that are so far past me. It's unbelievable. I don't know how I would survive out there this particular point. I didn't get my card that year. I got it

the next. So, yeah, you become out there. You jeff, what's the wandering. You have a tendency to wander all over the place, and it we didn't have teachers, so you had to do it yourself. And if you were going in the right direction, you know long it took you to reverse that direction and then come back the other way or a way you thought was better. It was a constant, arduous trek through clouds and fogs and dark forest, and it was really hard to get if

you had a rudder. By then it hit was, yeah, I don't you know, you could steer it, but we didn't want to steer which way to go, so that that was running right. Now, you go out there and you know, you've got your teacher, you've got your biomechanist, you've got your nutritionist, um, you've got literally everybody around you in this giant circle not letting your deviate from the path that you sent forth. And our dad there

was no path, there was no nothing. So I want to blame it on the fact that I wasn't I was okay. I didn't have any concept of the golf swing whatsoever. I didn't in basics, I didn't know where the face was and how to apply the face to the ball. When I got nervous. The more nervous I got, the worse it got and engulf. The more nervous you get, you hopefully you've got a good standard um, a good standard model you can go for and it helps mine hurt. And I couldn't figure out why I got under the

gun and I got worse. And that's the whole key in golf. You gotta get out there and you've got to you've got to play on the weekend, make the cut. Then you've got to play good, to play with the good players towards the end when the it gets raging inside and you can figure out, then all right, if I got it, what what happens? Gilder way to figure out? Then you go back to the range and try to try to try to figure out why it went wrong. And that was a it was hard, hard process at

that time. And then you know I wasn't good enough to go out there and just with my mechanic's go look at me, where's Jack, where's the lady, where's Arnold? Let's go no one that way. So it's a long convoluted way to say, I with shitty, and I didn't know what I was doing. When did you start hanging out with Mac? Five? Um? I was in Palm Springs and Mac was there and I called him up and I said, where are you going next? And excuse me, Jeff, this is eight six six And he said, I'm gonna

I'm gonna go to Augusta. I'm playing, And uh, I was doing the TELEVI first time to the television. So I met Mac out there. We played a practice round effect Jody Mudd, me and Mac O'Grady played a practice round. This is good. And the first time I played augusta hold. You know, Mac wouldn't let you play golf. You had to hit shots and do all this crap. And he was working with Jod. So we get to the sixteenth

hole and we're gonna play the whole im. You know, I think I'm playing for a score and playing for ten dollar units or twenty or a hundred, whatever we're playing for. And the pin was on the left, back over there in the corner, right around the bunker, and so I get hit. Mac goes, hoh holy, and he said, go to the right. I want I want to see if you getting the ledge up there in the top right.

It's a hard shot. That's where it's gonna be. That's where it's gonna be on Saturday, seeing get it up there. So I get up there in the seven iron, I pulled hook it and I went right in the hole over here on the left, and everybody's going nuts, just AUGUSTA. First time I played it, I make a hole in one.

I wouldn't even aiming at the damn hole. I was aiming another one up there, and people are going nuts, and I'm trying to tell no, no no, no, no, no, no, no no no. I just Frank's looked at seven iron, literally forty yards away from where I was aiming. But I'll never forget that anyway. So MC and I are planning, and Mac and I had grown up in in in junior college. He was at UM he was at Santa Monica Junior College. I was at Riverside City College and

I knew him then. He was nuts then too, um more a cowboy had uh but you know, golf song was okay, they're in jeff Okay, not anywhere near. And I'll tell you the next story, not anywhere near what it is now. And you know, he always had a left handed club in his bag and then thirteen right handed clops. And I played him in junior college and he was not. So he came back and I and I had played with him somewhere and I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, Wait a minute, that is not the swing. I remember,

this looked really good. He had been to Asia plan and he I think he quit over there. End up playing left handed for a while over in Asia, and then he started in the golf machine and then he started figuring out how to do it. And so after he figured out how to do it, that's when I met him an augustin six again for the first time in a while. I said, can I come down and work with you? I live in uh I live in Palm Springs at the time, and Mac did too. He said, yeah,

come out to the field. So there was a field there that we had it, but golf course was at anyways, big kind of soccer field. So I went out there one day. You know, you got to hip balls, you think you go hip balls for thirty minutes with Mac And I was out there for twelve and a half hours, and he showed me he started hitting balls left handed, right handed. I mean and Jeff as you know when you when you look at him when he was playing,

it was perfect. It was freaking perfect. And he had a model and he had starting to investigate this model from the golf machine. And I'm watching this and I'm going and he's shown me how Finally I got it. After about ten hours, I couldn't stand up, I couldn't hold on the club. I was getting the idea of it. So at that point we became really good friends. And from there to the last time I talked to him,

I think it was so eight years. I was with him teaching a bunch of the guys on the tour Max model, working with him and understand it, and we were going to try to make a business out of it. So that's UH, I learned a lot. It was. I went to the mountain, UH, and I learned a lot. We had doctors, we had by a mechanist. We had guys flying in left and right going on this model,

uh dr Zabnman shaky and uh. It was intense. And at night Mac wouldn't let you go, so he'd call you on the phone, and he'd call you on the phone. And Mac is deaf in the right here and totally deaf in left here a hundred percent because his brothers beat the crap out of him when he was growing up, and so he lost some hearing. So in other words, Mac didn't listen. Mac talked and literally he got on the phone. We've got on the phone for three or four hours after being with him all day, eight hours,

and it was just it was. It was intense, to say the least of an education. I'm interested that you had a friendship with someone where you only had to listen. How about that? How about that I could do was just to ask questions and then listen. And yeah, it was hard. That that was. That was hard. It really was. That's a that's a very very good read on that,

but it's it was hard. But in the long run, um, you know, to watch to what he did with a lot of these guys in all the way different Jody mud Uh, Chip Beck Um um stars at the end, Um, and to watch them and the model and so forth in the end and understand the biomechanics of it and their neurology and all that stuff. It was really really fun,

a lot of fun. Gary. I'm interested that you you you say your struggle on the PGA Tour because of you know, nervousness, but you're obviously an extrovert and a showman and you seem to love a crowd. Is that something that developed later in life where you just couldn't transfer your natural personality into your golf game. Well, I think that was probably alan Probably a lot of the problem was the fact that I was like that, um,

very gregarious, you know, like kept fun. Uh, I've got I've got a d D really bad, which a lot of people do. So my focus was, oh, maybe a femto second. That's it. That's a That's as much as I could focus. And then it was squirrel and I'll be bouncing a round and there, and that was that was a problem. I couldn't really concentrate and put my full, my full focus on what I was doing. But yeah, I remember coming up to the to the who has

brought this up the other day? Oh it was um got got into her hold on getting a second anywhere playing Silverado eighteenth. It's a part five, bunch of people around and this is stuff I would do and and uh so I told my caddie, I said, this is long before a long before we had we had any any of any of these, uh cell phones. And I had this ringer in my bag and I got over this button. I'm looking at it like I can't figure out which way it breaks, and then the phone goes

off my golf bag. Okay, Daling, Dane Ling, Daling. So I go over and I walk over there right in the middle of a round, and uh, I figured out I had about a twenty five UH cord on the end of a phone, okay, and I just stretched it and I got behind a I got behind the ball. I said, so you're telling me it goes to the left, and I'm looking up. Okay, so you're telling me it goes to the left. They didn't go to the left,

your kids. I had this long talk with God about which way the ball is going, and then we finally, you know, we get in there and I don't know if I made it or missed it. But that's the kind of stuff, you know. I had. I had toy chain sauce in my golf bag, had folding and they and you started it up when like that it was plastic, but it was It was a toothedged uh cutter on the thing and it would fold back up in so when I pushed it against a tree, it looked like

it was cutting it. So I'd be over the trees all the time, you know the gallery that I knew everybody because I was over the trees and I'm looking I go to the guy who goes out, you know, what what do you think? You know? And asked he what do you think? Well, you can't do it in trees. Take care of that. I take that. I'd start cutting. I got guys going to push the tree over and helped me push the tree because I was cutting the tree.

So you can see I was focusing a little too much on the devian part instead of the part that I wanted to I should have been thinking about. I just want to know that Gary was witty long before he got on t V. When I was cattying briefly, I heard him say of there was an old time caddy named Lelnch, and Gary said apropos of nothing. Leland isn't gonna die. He's just gonna crystallize. One day, while tending the pain, Leland was, let's see, boy, this has gone back a long time. He was known as Fingers,

and he the shoulder massages. He would give more unbelievable and just go down. If he was working for al Geiberger for a long time and you go, Fingers, Fingers, I need some work here, and he'd come already like that. Man, you felt great, But you're right. I think the guy just crystallized. He just literally turned into the courts and he's out there somewhere in the desert. You know, you know, Gary, you know having that's not true. Mike Donald paid for

his barracks. He okay, good for Mike. That's that's great. Yeah, because he had nothing. We weren't making much back then, and either were the caddies. Gary, You've been around the game for so long. If you think about you know, you were a fan of the game. I'm sure when Big Jack and Arnold were playing, and you know right

through the day, you've you've seen it all. Do you think of golf as a continuum or do you think of it as errors, like you know the per Seminarro, your error when you had to pay for range balls, and then Curtis hit his you know, not short and straight, but in play anyway, and then VJ hit it as long as you can. Is it continuum to you or is it errors? Let's continuum, but you pigeon all the

continuum into into parts that you can remember. Okay, I remember, you know Arnold and Jack and then you know Lee came around and started in fades and throwing snakes at people, and you know it. It is a continue. Golf is a continue, but it has to be identified with something so you can remember those aires right uses where you hear as you lived in, so you would quantify it that one. And but yeah, I did start fourteen hundred,

fifteen hundreds. Jeff knows all that stuff, and it is today and it's going to keep going and going and going as a continuum. But then you've got to figure out what air I was in and whatever the jack error, you know, the tiger area or whatever. And I've been in all of those right now. Um. I used to play with Julius Borrows and and uh and all those guys.

And now to be out there and watch these kids, it's it's really entertaining, I mean very entertaining to watch how different they are we were compared to what these kids are doing. Obviously you would have, given the choice, you price to want to be on the airwaves. Do did that diminish your enthusiasm for watching golf and not not being able to call because you know, I had so many friends out there and it was fun. I did it for thirty five years, um, and I didn't

like the way they did it. There was we had a two year option. Both Peter cost This Night had a two year option and CBS had never not taken an option. Okay, and so they just mean they called us up. It was it was two thousand, two thousand nineteen. I'm I'm here in Scottsdale, and Costas calls me, and I got here. What's going on? Do you get a phone going from New York? No? He goes, I got one? I said, what? He goes, I got fired? What what mean? You got fired? Our our options were up two more

years and then we were out? And I go fire? Are you kidding? Now? I'm thinking the whole time, I'm looking at my phone and ship anybody called me? And nothing said no go Thank god, Peter got fired. But I don't give a ship. I didn't get fired, So okay, I'll keep going. I did that night. I'm sitting there and I go and all of a sudden, the phone heat gives me a little a little beet there and I looked and it was it was a message, a

voicemail that was six hours old. I don't you know, you know how they come out of the kind of out of the eight or somewhere, and they land and I saw the number on it was to one two, which is New York. I went, oh shit. So I didn't look at it until I got out the next morning and I sat there and I looked at I hit. I had said, and uh, Gary, can you call me Polaean mcmanice. I need to talk to you. Blah blah blah.

So that was it. And and they whacked us. Um. They told us that we can do what we want, but they would like to for the first two tournaments of the next year for us to come back and get out, So it would have been San Diego and Phoenix, and they would do a little dog and pony for those two get out. And I I kind of said no because I thought it was more for them than it was for us, and so I'd sitting So that was it. We just kind of got whacked. Um, very succinctly,

to say the least. Okay, what was your path to CBS? Did you know what you're Kenyan or Chuck will or some of those guys. The path was? It was nineteen It was nineteen six. I was on the tour policy board, one of the three player directors, which is a frightening thought in itself. And I was on an air. I was going from from Colonial to Merefield for Jack's tournament. I was not in the tournament, because that's a tournament they go right off the money list Invitational. So I

was not in. But we had policy board meetings Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So I get on the airplane flane and to get on the airplane, I had to go through first class, which was Pat Summer, all, Ben Right, Frank Chick, Kenyon, uh Ken, Ben Surrey, and who else, somebody else and first and I'm in thirty seven C. Back there. So at about halfway there, I get I get a half half drunk bottle of wine, okay from the boys in

first class. Hope I enjoy you're enjoying with the hope you're enjoying thirty seven C. So I went up to thank him. Was walking up. Ah, Jeff, we'll get this idea. So Wednesday I had nothing to do. The next turn was washing d C. Now I'm out there making nothing, and if I can't go to Washington d C early, I can't. It's too expensive. So I figured a con. I went back to Frank. I said, Frank, listen, I'm on the policy board making decisions to CBS, NBC, ABC.

That time, I said, I know nothing about television. Is there any chance I could come and watch you in the trucks do a telecastsole me as one of the three player directors can get an idea. That's when I make decisions. I have a little better background. Is what what to look for and what to talk about in these meetings. And he looked at me and I go. He goes, you've got nothing to do. No, you broke, just like that, you broke. Yeah, he goes, all right,

check into the Stoffers and and we'll we'll go. We'll go Friday. Come on in Friday. So I remember that night at Stoffers. We're going there, he says, Frank was basically started the entire business the five ft a Carthenian General basically. So we go there and we met at the bar. All the idiots at the bar. We're sitting around, and so you go from the bar. This was every day. Every day you go from the bar, and then you

go in to the restaurant right next to it. I'm sitting next to Summer all and you know, I've I've heard about these guys, but I've never witnessed these guys. So we're sitting there and there's the service, the service salads first. So we're sitting there. I mean, aw about my third bite next to me, I'll hear I hear this and face first past Summer, all into the salad, rogue for coming everywhere, everywhere, and no one even looks,

and they keep talking and I'm looking. I'm looking over and this guy he's I've never heardnybody drowned and rogue for dressing, but this guy's got a chance at it. So I'm I don't know, you know, it's my first day. There I did, and I'm I keep looking at him, and I'm talking to Ben right and finally Ben Regan's head. Good god, he's done it again. And he gets up and he takes him by the hair, pulls it up and here's Pat Summer all nothing with rogue for addressing.

Ever you can't recognize it. And Ben gets him up out of the deal, walks him into the into the elevator and up to his room. But when Bed comes back, no one says a word. Nobody says a word about this, and I went, Jesus, this is going to get interesting. So I go out there on Friday rehearsal, show up, go into the truck's big truck. I walked in and Frank and the sound guy his his directors next to him. Frank was actually producing and directing at the same time.

And you know all the guys that you know. It's a hundred monitors up there. And I get in. I seek in the back and I said down. I'm kind of looking wide eyed here. I've never been in the trucks. And all of a sudden, somebody says, hey, Frank, record's behind you. He turns around and goes, hey, asshole, get out to sixteen. And no, I wanted to watch you get out to sixteen. I get out the door. I'll walk out to sixteen. Jeff, you remember the old days,

sixteen at Merefield. I walk out. I'm now I'm going towards I start England for the tea. I don't know why I'm going to sixteen even is that? I mean look at the tea because I think I'm gonna be a spotter. And that's basically Caddy that's missed the coup. He comes out and he sits there with a headset on and Fred Couples pulls out a seven iron and he goes Fred's got a seven iron that goes to the trucks up to the announcer. That's what I think

I'm gonna do. I get halfway to the right, walking over there, and I hear screaming and yelling from Verne lumpist up in the tower, Get up here, get up here, and he goes, come on up, come on up. So I climb up and he hands me a headset. I said, what's this for? He says, Frank wants to try his an announcer. Well, I figures a lot better than being a caddy on the tea, right. So I sat there and we did rehearsal for literally four minutes. Some cameras

broke down. He says, hell of it. He says, everybody in place tomorrow one o'clock, not at four men. I didn't. I have no idea. Who was talking, no idea. The only guy remembered was Pat Summer all because he was doing those those union those hard work commercials, um true, true hard work. And I remember the boys. Oh okay, that's that's him. And then there's Frank's yelling at mean this year all the time, and then people are talking this year, and that's the play by play anyway, no idea.

So we got up to the that's how I got the job. So we get up there on Saturday and I'm studying my ass off. I'm sitting in a folding chair right here, and next to me here is a is a basically it's a window plexiglass, and there's a spotter. And the spotter for for Verne Lindquist was literally we waited him a safe way one day. He was four pounds okay, offensive lineman for Wisconsin. So he literally when the when the sun went to set on that side of the tower, it was dark in there, totally dark,

and then burns on the other side. So I'm setting next to the camera and waiting and waiting, and I don't what I'm doing. I literally I'm on national delevision. I got well, plue what I'm doing. And so we go and and I'm on sixteen. I'm sitting and I'm looking at the guys. I've done homework, got my stuff, and all of a sudden we're going and Verne goes, um, he get Gary, what what's this putt look like? Well, look there's nobody on the green, there's somebody on the sill.

And Jeffish, you know, you look to the right, you can you can look down fourteen nice trival part four and then thee there's nobody there because we've got we've got starting times in between. Now the next group is on the fourteenth hole. I'm on sixteen on national television. Burn goes, Gary, what's his putt? Looked like? Well, now I put down my paper and I'm looking and there's nobody and there's nobody playing the hole. So now I think, well, maybe this is a joke from the guy. So I

get out over the end. I look underneath. I did. I got up and looked underneath the tower to see if the guys down below we're hiding really because there's nobody there, and I'm going finally with the hell of it, I said, Burn, this put is really sincerely fast, and if he's just too hard, it could go in the water. Thinking now these guys are just putting me on. We're still in commercial break right, Um, Jeff, ten years ago? Is there any water on sixteen? No? No water, no, nothing.

Did not put the lake in until about five years ago, four years ago. There's no water. The only water is a drinking fountain on the tea on sixteen. So I make this up right and Burn goes, oh. He says you're right. Another full of feet, um, and it was it was I know we hit this pot too. I'll get a second, bob. Anyway, he hits his pot and it goes. He says, it's on the fridge. Another foot and go on the water and now let's go to pat Summer. All at eighteen bird bird, What the hell?

What's going on? He goes, what do you mean? He said, good call, you gotta get faster. I think that call. There's open a here. He says, well, you gotta look at the monitor. I said, I can't see the money, got job of the hut in front of you. I can't see through him. And he goes, oh, he says, and then all of a sudden he went, oh Jesus, he said, rehearsal. I said, yeah, we had ever five minutes. I said, what's going on? He goes, you know, we have five other holes. Excuse me? What on the six

steenth hall? I'm an idiot, So I just figured we're doing the sixteenth ho we got five other holes, and the other hole we were doing at that time it was the twelfth hold Part three. Beautiful looks like it looks like throws throws lake. They're beautiful just before, just sitting down and well, Bob Westwood, that was Eastwood. Excuse me,

I always called Westwood. He was on the top top of the green up there, Gregg and the pins on the front, right on the front of the water up there, and he hit this foot going down that hill and he hit it past roll about eight feet by on the fringe, and literally he would have hit it pretty hard, but it could have gone in the water. So I just made the whole damn thing up and I got it right. So I figured this is the business for me.

So Frank it was again the six hole, and why I got asked the next week the sixteenth hole on the back stop there, and it was Payne Stewart was up there. Payne Stewart was up there and you, it looks like you look like a better win. Sheep over the green up on that hill and you're shitting straight down to this green. The green is greens, harder rock, and Burn goes Gary, what's he got? And I said, well, here's what he's got. Everybody out there at home. I want you to get your wedge, I want you to

get a ball. I want you to walk out to your front launch shipping on your driveway, start halling forward to bite. That's what he's got. Well get done. Frank's laugh. First time I ever heard Frank laugh. And he gets done. He goes, what are you doing next week? I go, I'm I'm playing. I'm playing Washington see at the Kemper. He goes, great. He said, you'll miss the cut. When you missed the cut, come on up. So I did that for three years. I went up. They gave me

five hundred bucks for the weekend. So if I missed the cut, which was chance I was gonna make a miss the cut, I would go up and do that. And they finally signed me. I told him I'm not gonna do anymore. In nineteen I think it was eight or ninety. I said I need to contract and I'll quit plan. So that was it. That's how That's how long winded. That's how I got the job. That's a great story. It's also proved that for you guys, uh making outrageous prediction and Johnny Miller made a career out

of this is always a good thing. Like Miller, you know, something probable, bunker shot and john would say, yeah, he could hold this, you know, and then one and twelve times John would be correct, and he looked like a genius. You didn't remember the other elevens. Well, I think that was most of dramas. I think I think predicted about four percent of his predictions came out true. But his legacy is based on on the four percent that he got right. And I'll tell you a story about Ian

Baker Finch. Ian Baker Finch came over from ABC to work at CBS and I had tried to get him to work. I brought him into the tower at it was at the Western Open, Jeff, where was the golf card had five golf courses there. One guy owners cog Hill, Cog Hill, so it was was it at cog Hill. I took him up the tower. He is really good, good looking guy, and he was starting to snipe it off the team really bad and he couldn't find it left and he's such a good guy, and I just, man,

you gotta quit doing this. You're gonna kill yourself. So I brought him up the tower. Frank liked him, but he said, I don't need another breaking foreign boards anymore. So that was that in the first time. So then he finally came two after ABC came to CBS Mary's about the second telecast and he said something on the air, and I just jumped in about it's not right. How can you say that? I can you even think about that? That's a right hand, doesn't do that. Coul swing. Yeah,

I mean, you know, I start arguing. So we get done and we get to the to the compound there at the double ledge and he goes kind of talk to you for a second. I said, yeah what. He goes, you know that argument we had today? And I'm thinking argument, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that. I said what And he goes, well, I didn't know you're gonna jump me like that. I didn't know that, you know. I thought it was wrong. No, no, you were dead right. I said, you're absolutely right. But

I said, in television, what what? We're trying to try to take a side, take for it or against it, Jane, you ignorant slut, take one of the two sides, and you arguing even if you even you agree with the guy. Because you've got people at home sitting on a couch and they're going they're going through the remote fast as they can, and for them to stay they've got to take part in something. They have to take a side and watch it, argue out, and then decide whether they're

gonna watch anymore. I said, if you do a telecast at NBC at that time, everybody, everybody it was, it was of the same mindset they had, They have the same thoughts. They would say, yes, Johnny, you're absolutely right, Roger, you're absolutely right. Right, Well, it's boring after a while. So you've got to have this agonist antagonist relationship, even if it's faked on the air, to get some spice in it. Because what I it was television, and if

you're on television, it's in the entertainment business. So you watch guys like Jeff playing and then you say, oh, accoly it's good or bad. You know, that was a shitty shot. Uh, he doesn't hit many of those. I hit a lot of whatever it is. And then you pound him on something else, or you you know, you applaud him on something else, and then you take sides

and go back and forth. Because you watch every sitcom that's ever done, and it's always it's usually four people in the room that are totally divergent in their philosophy, their ways of life, how they grew up, and they meet in the middle, and in that middle to fist fight and you get in the middle is we're all the funniest and golf is is they've lost that totally totally. Uh. Frank liked it. He liked the whole thing about doing it that way. So that was just the way. I

don't the question was a long time ago. But that's I think how golf should be done. And again it's it's uh, it's it's you like it to a sitcom I do. It just sounds like the grill room at Whispering Benga, exactly right, exactly right. You just start pounding on people when they come in. You just get every bit of mmo you got. See who likes to come back at you, and they come back at you, you go after them harder and see what they got. And then it gets down to okay, let's go out and

play for hundreds, U asshole. And you go out and you play for hundreds and pick a partner and go and it's if there's nothing better, you know, remember Japan, the old they would Phil get out there with the needle. It's justif and he you know, he could sell cocky with his bats he'd make bet you couldn't win. And

that's because Phil always had a lot of money. So you could remember one day when I'm played and they were it was he and Stricky and me and Jennie and somebody else, and they were going to play bestball against my five eyes scramble score. Well, you can't win that bat, you can't just you can't do it. And the fourth all he paid off to get everybody a hundred. Let's start over, let's do something else. They still, so we did. But this stuff like that, it's always been

good fun and you learn. You know, Jeff, you know, Jeff's really good at the needle, He's got to try one. He's really good at the needle. And that that's that's how we learned when I was younger, that's how you learned how to play. It's a great environment to get better. Absolutely, when Phil comes to down, Phil comes, it sounds ends out a text to about twelve guys is like I'm coming.

We're playing hundred dollars a hole or something, and we're playing off the back and he gets in and he's playing not only in his group, there's two or three other groups that didn't get in, his group that he's playing hundred dollars a hall and there he's playing twelve different people and just compare cards at the end of the day, and he takes a bath every time. But he loves it. He loves and all his boys are there from s so it was it was funny games.

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nit a fourth. I don't know if you saw this little news break in the Sports Business journal, but you know, the tours going to try and streamline the telecast, the fewer commercials and uh you know, like the last hour Um and MAUI was commercial free and things of that nature. There's there's been so much talk for so many years about the product that's given to viewers at home. If we gave you all the power in the world, Gary, how would how would you reinvent the way the PGA

Tours televised? I'll tell you a story. Um, I know you will. First of all, that everybody is trying to emulate the masters in every way, shape or form. Okay, The number one thing if you get into the media part of it is there's what a minute and a half commercials an hour? Okay, they get the four sponsors in there, they give them a lot of money that guys say, okay, fine, we'll do that. What a presentation. You never get mired and and uh see it in

a half hour. I think we're a lot of I think it's I think it's nine minutes of commercial for a half hour, and those get backloaded a lot, so all of a suddenly starts, you know, and the actions I going to start throwing commercials. Act you you're going Jesus, come on, um. I had at the end of last year, Greg Norman was calling me trying to get me to come to Live to be one of the announcers with charity and they wanted to kind of re event things. And they got ahold of at that time too, they

got hold of Charles Barkley. So Charles and are good buddies. He's a member out there to Jeff and I play and we had to talk one day and he goes, Hey, says, what would I do in this thing I don't want to know about golf? I said, well, I got an idea that I'll pitch to him if it gets that far. Said, well, what is it? And I said, well, if if I'm gonna do, if I'm going to do to Live, I'm going to start over. I need to catch their attention.

I can't do it like you do it now, where you put a couple of announcers up in the deal and you play, grab bass up there and you throw it down to somebody on the ground. I said, that's you know, it's old. It's old. I said, Chuck, here's what I have to do. We'll have a camera. Pl V is behind five bar stools at a bar. The play by play is up on a television, like we all watch it at a bar, and it's there. There's your there's your there's your video monitor, they say, the

television set. If you're on air, deal right there, cameras behind you. The host is over here, sitting at a cocktail table on the left. So we got three guys at the bar. I would be on the outside. Check you're in the middle, thirty year on the outside too. And now they shoot it from that perspective, the back of our heads as we're drinking in the bar and

watching the golf on television. And I said, then we have a guest bartender every week, a celebrity, and that guy is the foil for all of our jeff as you know, the long needles, and we'll get some guys in. They're really good. He's a bartender. There's gonna be a mop back there, and he will be the guy doing all the swings. Uh for the instruction. Hey, you know Ben affleck Ben, Ben, take your name Ben, Thank you Ben? Grab that mob um. Let me let me Chuck, let me,

let me show you what Scotty shuffle shuffles does. I said, his left arms in the year. Ben, take take that mop. Take take that thing and put your leftar way up near and say he gets it way up there, and then he drops it and then he takes his feet and he does a shuffle like this, Ben, do a shuffle. So what you do is all that is the Manning cast. Okay, it's a Manning cast. And we throw at the golf and we get three people in there. Chuck loved that

because he wouldn't have talked about golf. He get sit there, and he says, and he told me before he went to talk to Norman in Atlanta. He says, I'll get I'll get all the celebrities every week to come in and sit there. We were going to have the studio would be probably Dallas, and we shoot the studio out of there and we let the guys travel to Riyad and h Bank. I can wearry because I don't want

to go there. So that was there's there's there's a game plan, and that's that's the one that that that I came up with just three guys that bore watching golf with a with the bartender that everybody's gonna know and we can just pound on it from the hotel cast. So that's a many casts, and Norman didn't like that. I never got to Norman with that. I never got that far I got. I've talked to a couple other people about it, and they would they thought it was

very interesting. I thought it was very interesting. A hundred years ago, a company that owned the most bars in the United States. I don't know what the company is. We wanted Ferdy Night to do the Masters, and after we left, wanted us to the Masters and call it anyway. We wanted to awful live, awful live show and we would just overlay and just start talking about it. You guys at the bar doing it. And that's where I got there. And that was a long time ago, and

I don't think it. Gusta probably wouldn't let us do that anyway safer for I just thinking a wild guess, But I think you've got to get it more like that. And if if I was do and live, I do I have to do something like that. You've got to catch your attention. They only got a network yet, right, so if you did put it on CW or Fox Sports one or whatever they're talking about. At least the people are going, did you see how they're doing this thing.

They've got some guy at the bartender and they're talking and drinking and watching golf and talking over and everything else. Um, So that that would be my approach to doing something like that new and aggressively and have some fun with it. Garry, when you were working on Tin Cup, You've you've got so much creative energy and so much creative insights. You know, you're talking about the sitcoms and how you might do

a telecast when you're working on Tin Cup. Did you bring any of this to the to the set of that movie and they use any of it? Oh? Yeah, yeah,

a lot of them, a lot of it. I was the the technical director of the movie, so I was responsible for getting forgetting Kevin Costner to look like he looked like he could play a little bit and he had a big language swing, you know, and he played nine times with this with this father at all, and he came into he came into the World Series of Golfer at Firestone and we went, Jeff forward to Sharon

Country Clubs. You ever played there? We took them over there in the range, and I brought costas with me and we're back there, and you know, he's got this big language swings. He's going to be in the movie and the script. He's from Salome A, West Texas. Well, if my buddies are gonna watch it, and I'm the I'm a technical director, and I got a guy from Salome, West Texas with the club had gone down about thirty degrees past parallel and arms and legs going everywhere. That

ain't gonna fly. This swaying had. He had a strong grip, closed club face, and a short follows that's the only way you played golf in West So we started from there and then and luckily Ron Shelton and Gary Foster, the producer, we've very good friends, so I got I got a lot of leeway and who I wanted in there and scenes and everything else. So it was it was really fun to do. It was boring as hell because you're on the set. I was still working, I

was playing, and I was also doing this movie. And I had to be all over the place as a technical director every day, um shooting this thing, or go play somewhere and come back and have a guy there doing all this stuff. But it was it was it was that creative process, Michael, is what you're asking. I loved. I loved because I had I had some control over all the golf stuff. Okay, and not the rewriting. But we put a lot of stuff and I said, you know this, that that that, it looks better if you

did this or that. Um. So it was fun. It was fun. I don't know if I'd have the energy to do it again because it was the early cast. Calls were six thirty in the morning. If you were shooting early in the late ones or one thirty, and you're there all day, all day, I'll get I'll give you one with the bar scene with the pelican, and Ron got that. I did that actually in Pensacola. Uh, there's a lot of the scenes in the movie. I did that Ron, and I didn't know when he was

writing it. I didn't even know him that So when I got the script, I read it and I went, what the hell I did this? Ship? How does he know about this? So I called him up and he flew out the veil Colorado Edwards, Colorado, where I lived in the summer. He flew out in Kevin's airplane and we just played golf. I took him up hiking about killed him a couple of times and just drank and we talked about the movie or anything, what he wanted to do, and it was it was really cool. I said, man,

I man, I'll do this. And and so from there I got a very good relationship with it with the three guys that are running it. So we kind of just you know, got in and and acted out all of the stuff. And the pelican scene, um I was. It was a Penscola and it was me Ed Sneed, Bill Calfi and John Schroder staying in the conda. And it's a rain out for the day, so we go back. We're playing gin for in this kindo in my bedrooms

in the back down the hallway. So I go back there, take a leak and come back out and then look at this pelican. We were on a we're on a canal, and we had a wharf going out in his publican laying on the big post and the deal. I'm look and like we're gambling anyway. My clubs are right there, and I say, hey, guys, you give me ten shots from the bedroom and I'll betch you I can knock that publican office perch, and they're all looking down. They

go game on and money starts slamming down. So I had to move a couple of furniture, move a light, had to open the sliding glass doors, and I had about thirty yards of hallway to go through until I I got to the to the main room and then out the double and then double doors over the wood railing, and then there was another seventy five, the hundred and sixty shot. Well, I got back there and the thing and I'm looking, I'm going, what the hell? How do you? How do you take a club? And Jeff, it was

a fore iron? How do I do that? I gotta hit down, I gotta cut it, to spind it, to get it up in the air, to fly this thing without taking a divot out of the carpet, because I didn't have any money at the time, and if I if I ruined the carpet, that's gonna be expensive. And if I pull it, I'm gonna hit one of the sliding glass doors. So all of a sudden, this wasn't very much fun. So I got us everybody out here.

It comes and open the doors up and I took a four and I went down my short arm and my left arm and clipped it and just cut across anyway. And I missed the wall about that much on the left, and it's going through the bed or there in the main room now front room, and all of a sudden it starts to cut and I'm going right at these glass sliding glass doors and missed it by about that much,

went over the rail lane. I look up and it's going right at this freaking pelican and then went over about one foot, right over the top of his head and he flew gone. I went nuts one shot back bedroom and I No one knew about this, nobody. And I'm looking at this in the movie going and I called run. I say, where'd you get this? He goes, I got a Golf World you were on art. I said, bullshit. So he sat in the article. I don't know who wrote it. I don't know how they found out. One

of the other guys wants to told him. So that Pelican scene. We go there and it's a fake bar that they put on this country club they built to about a week unbelievable. And we're sitting in there and this is a big deal because I've got I've got Renee Russo sitting there, I got Kevin, I got everybody else in the movie. I've got Cheatches in there, everything else. And I got this line that's a paragraph. So I go in and I study all night and I'm studied

and study it and it's a paragraph. And I mean, they're hard to do anyway, but when you've got real actors there, you don't look like an idiot. So we start and we shoot four five hours and we get done at one thirty and nothing's done. The lighting is wrong, the cameras are wrong, and I'm hitting this line every time lunch right for lunch, we're gonna start. We gotta do something else. So I come in here. Renee Russo comes over and she puts out of it, and she goes,

and who are you? And I said, I'm I'm Gary McCord um. She says, you're not an actor, right and doing good? I go, no, I go no, Renee, I'm not. I'm a golf professional and I'm her her husband played golf. I'm a golf professional and I'm just the I'm in the movie. And I'm also the technical director. So that's I go, why why don't you think I'm an actor? Now I'm going, well, god damn it, why why did

you think I'm an actor? And she goes, well, Garrett, she says, I knew you weren't an actor when you hit your first line and you nail it, and you hit it again for five hours, and I go, okay, what She goes, okay, when you get a script, we don't even look at the script because we know this first, this scene, which took three days, it's a minute and a half of the movie, a minute forty This scene took three days. And she says, HER's out. I said,

tell me how it works. She goes, you get in there, you got your script read over here, and they go okay, Renee, and you go a script read what's my line? She says. It will take a day and a half for these people to get the lighting, to get the camera slide in the right way, to get everything perfect, and then the last half a day, and the last day is when you need the line and you gotta know it. So you got two and a half days to learn

the line. We never even looked at the script. So the rest of the movie that really helped because I never even I just you know, like a big time guy script and they go, okay, I gotta and you go and she was right. By the time you got done, you were so tired of that line you could say it upside out backwards. I don't know what the question was that. The question is about memorial I think, um no,

I'm just kidding. Yeah. I don't know if you ever looked at your Wikipedia Gary, but it says, um, you appeared in tin Cup, a movie he says is based on his life. Is are we? I mean, obviously they picked, but it was based it was based on your life John Jacobs, and not John Jacobs. Jeff knows the teacher John Jacobs. Who is Jeff? How would you how how would you define j j um golf? He's right there, close to one of the best players I've ever applied with,

easily better. Little uh I didn't have the discip, didn't really have a self discipline guest. I've known him since we've been one. I think we won't have been arrested once, and that was in Tijuana. But that's just another long story. We have time, we have time I've been with it's so many of these these things that he's got into. UM. The other day, we're talking on the radar. I remember I usually hear most of them, right, I'm talking to j J. And JJ was six ft to pounds um,

long hair, good looking guy. Hit it miles. He had a standing bet with Jim Debt of ten thousand dollars any place, anytime, long drive, anytime, and Debt couldn't have beat him. He would hit it farther anybody've ever seen with wooden clubs and everything else, and and JJ would. So we're talking and he goes and we go down, and he called me when Evil Kneedle came into town at La Costa. I lived in Escondida, which is about minute drive, and he and he and Evil were good buddies.

And Evil, for whatever reason, love to lose on the golf course. And I mean love to lose. I mean We've got in the first tea at LaCosta and here was the game. There was a money game whatever it was for it, but if you hit a tree you had to pay the other guys in the group five thousand apiece. This was this was a while ago. This is a seventies what five thousand apiece? I t the ball that high and I just burned it right along the ground. Never got it in the air because Evil

is all over the places and trees everywhere. I don't always settle for half. I don't know what it was. But Evil got to lose money one time. Uh. And JJ is saying this on the air. He says, I beat I beat Evil out of a hundred and seventy five thou And he said he was there for fourteen days at LaCosta, and he said about fifteenth day he comes up to him. Evil comes up to j J and says, hey, I gotta go to New Orleans and I broke. So JJ gives him seventy five grand, okay,

and he says this in the air. I go, what you know, he's not gonna say, you actually get me collateral? Yeah, yeah, he gave me something, but I never I never looked at it. And I gave the money I knew was gonna I knew if I'd never seen it again. So then he says, you know, and he says, finally, I'm on the parking lot one day, back behind the condos there where Evil said he left me something. So he said, I wart to go see what the hell? Listen a month two months afterwards, and he goes back there and

he sees, uh, there's a car there. It's got a tarp over it. So he undoes it and there is Evil Kinevil's do you ever, guys remember seeing his studs barkat? Just all you gotta do is go and google and look at Evil kinevil car And there is Evil with a stuts barkat. This is the damnedest thing you've ever seen. This car is outfitted with it is it is? It's a nineteen seventy I think it's a seventy six. And it was Evil's car, Evil's car And I go, ho, he gave you that? Or you kidding? And he goes yeah,

but he's next to it. He says there was his trailer. And he said there's another tarp on it. So he said he gave me that to whatever it was. And he says, this is JJ telling the story. He takes off the tar and he's looking at and he's telling me. He goes, it was it was. It was all broken and it was just a bunch of metal and it was a thing. And he signed it for me and I said a rocket and he goes, yeah, wait about it. That was the rocket he went all over the Snake River. Yeah, yeah,

that's it. I go, well, ship, So we started going nuts now and we while we're on here, we call up eBay or something got eBay to see how much those two things would be worth the day on eBay and it was somewhere around five to six million. Okay, j J. Where'd they go? Ah? He said? A week later he said, I had a bad run at del Mar with the horses. And he said, I had a buddy of miners in the salvages business. So I gave

him to him for four grand was spur. Yeah, and you gave him the that went over the day for four grade? Yeah yeah, he said. I lost that the next day to have the track. So it was just a storyline. It's just just said, it's just just unbelievable. You just you can't gather up all the stories. So anyway, the movie was about lay there's a lot of j J do my stories. So we're back into you one, and now what were yours? This? When I, um, we're playing in Mexicano, JJ and myself and j J lives LaCosta.

I live over there, he called me, and then we're in the last group together and there's one group behind us. We're playing pretty good for the Mexican Open. So he goes, come on over and he says, I'll drive you over there. Well, j J never had a car ever, never had a car. And I'm where he got his stuff. Um, guy gave him a condo there LaCosta. His brother ran it. He was a golf pro, Tommy. So we go there. He's got something. He's got a black fire. Remember where we

got it. So we get the clubs to get here. We go. Now, we get and as you know, if you guys been into Juanna lately or this was thirty years ago. So they got a bunch of traffic. They got traffic circles. Okay, they got traffic circles. Now, J J j J was well looped by the time I got there at his house. I got to his house at seven thirty in the morning, and he had he had one of those big gulps you know about like that you got at seven eleven and it flared at the top, and that was all full of bias and

straight vodka and he's driving, drinking, driving, drinking. We go and we get one of those circles and he gets he gets some somehow, somehow he got to going to the circle and returned. And now he's in the structor. He's going the wrong way. He's going against the flow, okay, and so he's going the wrong way and all of a sudden, here comes the lights behind his Dan Dean and I went, uh Jesus. And he looked at me and he goes, we had a problem. I go what.

He goes, My LISSN has expired twelve years ago. I said what he said, Yeah, but I think I can get out of it. And I go, oh God. So I know. He goes back and JJ's m O was with the cops that he would lean on the car and not let him out before they got out, so they have to roll the window down. And he was talking to him this one it's a great move. He did it every time. I don't know how he did it. And so he's talking to this company. I've got the

I've got the mirror, mirror and I tilted it. I'm sweating like a dog because we're going to go to Mexican jail. I'm in Tijuana. This is not gonna end well. And he's going like this and like this, and I oh. And he comes back in the car and said, and go hold on. And he gets out. He's got his big gulp on the top of the car and he grabs it and he takes a dry and toast the cop. Okay, not good, okay, and we're running late. Now I get

into the first steam. So now the next thing, he gets in the car and he goes, hang on, we've got an escar. I go, hell, woud you tell him? I said, well, this would be an international event because either you or are going to win this event for their national opening golf. And if we don't get there in time, it is gonna be on you, the cop. That's what he's stilling the cop. So here we go through back roads into sirens going and everything else, and we got there. And so we get done. J J Jeff.

The second first hold to you want to come to a dog light to the right goes down and the next hole comes up. I'll join it. We go down the cart path on one and pulls right just about fall out of the cart and he drives down and he goes down as a barkhart. It's a red single front wheel drive Barkhart, you know all of it's got all the wood in the back of the plywood and

get stuff. And he gave him fifty bucks. And the red cart was never more than three ft wherever we went, the red cart was behind us, and j G was plowed cloud. He couldn't see. In fact, at the last three holes he would get out and I'd have to club him. And I'm playing, I'm in the tournament. We can't give I can't give advice or the Then we get out and I had walked by when he was fiddling through his bag. I go seven iron money and

I was reading his putts. I've walked behind him three ft out to the right down hill and he ends up in a tie with Mark File. So we get done, and we were sitting there and the term of director comes up and he goes, we're on the tea, where's your buddy? I can't find him. Oh God, hold on, So I running the bar. He's got his face down on the bar. He's just gone. He's gone. He's out. So I said, I totally got just give me ten and it's time in install. So we get him coffee

and everything else. He gets on the first, I'm catting for him now the term catting for him. And he gets gets on the first tee, he takes us three with out. He can't see the ground and he hit the ball. It's just the end of the team and he's laughing like he gets up now the whole three sixty. He gets up, takes us three with uh, gives it a mighty whack and hits it on the green. He just hit a three forty the great off the tea. It's a little dog like that, right, it rolled along? Wait,

get a three on the green. He went bogey bogey, double bogie and lost the Mexican Open with the double bogey mark bogey the hall and that was it. And then I had to drive him home in his firebird and we didn't get arrested that time, but we got really close. And that was Mexican Open, Tijuana Country Club. Well those are the days, people. I thought he was

gonna kill me, but he never did. And now and now the tour is so corporate and different like Jefferent in those days, God almighty, we're we're out of a conversation the other day. But well, basically the tour now in their reaction to Live is basically lining up like Live is. And our tour started and it was top sixty for a long time when I came on the tour. And then um, I got the bright idea to do the all exempt tours, so I readed the tour all Exempt Tour in six to allow more guys to be

able to play instead of sixty knowing where they're going. Uh, we allowed a d The number was um I can remember, and I did this in eighty six. Took me about seven weeks to do it. It's the tour were qualifiers and no one know it was gonna afford to go home. So we're just there was a better in existence of guys going from one qualifying site to the next. We're never allowed on the on the site until te off time. He couldn't go to Sunday, so we'd have to disappear

somewhere and go and uh. And that was allowing the tour to become more socialistic and involving more players to be able to plan a consistent paces. And now they're basically Jeff, as you know, they've redone it now now they're going back to seventy, so that two are now they're basically going back into the womb uh and catering to the top guys, top guys to counteract Live. So it's an interesting it's an interesting deal. Like, what would be your advice to Monahan to try to continue to

be the supreme tour in golf? Is it? Is it even a worthy goal? What? What would be what Monahan calls you? He says, Gary Bin this game a long time. What should I be doing? Well? He is? He is, he's very reactive and he wasn't proactive and that that's that that's the problem because now he's been dictated by um by Live on what he's doing. You can you can see what they're doing. They're doing the exact same thing.

Live is. Um Jay is in a precarious spot because the changes occurred when two guys outside of the system decided to have a meeting with twenty four other guys that were in the system to change the system. When he's supposed to do that. He's he's the guy that's supposed to be leading the tour of the players in

the direction he thinks fit. So Tiger, Tiger and Rory come in and they decide that they're going to go in we're gonna have elevated events, and we're gonna have the top guys playing all the tournaments together and kill them with, you know, a blunt force trauma basically to counteract. Um. Okay, that's fine so far as decision making has been from the players and not him and the board. That's an

interesting because now you've got a dereliction of authority. Authority has now changed, it's transferred without really any meetings anything going on. I found that interesting. M The next thing you've got is money. Jay has got a if this thing goes to court, which it is at this point going to go to court. Um. I think you've got a seven to ten year process. According to the other antitrust stuff that we've had, it is going to be laborious.

And in this process is discovery. And at the discovery is anything which I think Live is trying to push it to, and that is the tourist taxis and status of a five oh one C six or We're supposed to enter the year with nothing and then come out fire in the next year and try to in with nothing to get that status. Uh, there's a lot of money floating around that. Phil actually said there was and it came to be, and there's a lot of money being piled on. I understand the media right kicked in.

They're getting seven sixty million a year from that through two thirty. But in discovery there's gonna be a lot of things that I don't think the tour wants the I, R, S and d J to know about my opinion. And if that comes out, I think they're gonna be flinching. If they lose their task exempt status as a tour, they're in trouble. They're in serious trouble. You can't it would be like, okay, I'm I'm a Scott Stalward Phoenix Open. Okay, Now the tour has redone. You've got to have an

ownership like the NFL. Okay, so they somebody owns Thunderbirds on the They only the golf tournament and they got to pay all these guys now to show up at their golf tournament to come all the infrastructure has got to be paid for revenue. They've got to create theirselves. They don't have any meteorite thing at this point. Volunteers, you got volunteers. You gotta pay them all. Wow, man, that every week to do that? That would be a

nose plate for the tour. And I gotta assume, I gotta assume that the saudisn't live are looking right at that in in this uh, in this litigation that's going to go on for ever, and it's gonna get some monotonous and soltitious and it's the separation is already there. It's the separation is huge, like the San Andreas broke open, and it's gonna get worse. It's gonna get worse and worse and worse. So I don't like the direction it's gone.

I hope that there is some calmer heads take over and everybody is allowed to live in the same not that live l I v E live in the same in the same golf environment. And we have a world tour, which is already is anyway, but let's have a world tour. Let's have these guys want to play twenty five events, Fine,

let's events a million DP. You get, you get, you get a bunch, tour gets more UM Latin America, you get some Asian, you get some live, you get some and everybody play and then there'll be a secondary tour under that UM and that's a fee or tour to get in, but we can't do that now. I'm pretty sure Live would like to do that, but I don't think the guy run and Live right now is up to having a nice meeting of calmer minds. I just

don't think that's going to happen. My boy Greg's in that that position, but I think that has that has to happen. We can't have this thing go to court and set in court for ten years. They're canna do nobody good, nobody any good. My opinion, well, that that's an invaluable one, because yeah, don't I'm not sure people recognize your role in creating the All Exempt Tour and so you've you've been following the politics and bureaucracy of this stuff for a super long time, so that that's

definitely an interesting point of view. Before before we we send we send you off into the night, Gary, what's the best story that you're sitting on you've never told on the airwaves? Play? What's one good thing you can give the listeners? This is your mic drop? Come on, I know we're putting on the spot here, but you've

gotta be sitting on some some gold. Okay, Um, where Charlotte it is a humid, humid, hot day, tarzan like, and it's a Saturday, and Tiger is in the second to last group and making a run and out with Tiger is David Ear on the ground. And so we're out there now. When we go to commercial break, everybody in the tower. Director comes on. He goes, Peter you there, and Peter, yes, here are you there? Like what what? Who's talking to? And then everybody's got there their signatures

saying to come on, okay that I'm there. When they got the Charity Ferrety's signature is, as you know, Jeff, charity is is he is enveloped in gas. Okay, he has a flatulence problem and it is prolific how good he is and how he can coordinate flatulence. Two songs to everything. So he puts the microphone down and he just pops one. That's everybody knows and now we don't.

It's just you hear that, okay, David here, okay, but David at this time and the winning and then when anyway, Oh so now he's on fifteen and we go now and let's say, okay, let's let's go now, let's go back to seventeen and I'm thinking, oh, what the hell is So we go to the six and I'm looking.

It's a it's at the Kemper there and so Jeff, you know, it's just that straight, slight dog like to the right part four and I can I can see the tea from my tower there, and I'm looking at him and he had khaki pants on when he started around. And now I looked down and he's got he's got brain pants on, and I go, okay, this is good, so now get the binoculars. Get it. So we got binoculars up there, and and he's walking off the tea and he is splay footed. His hell, okay, it looks

like wise colf walking. Okay, toes are going outward and he's walking kind of damn, he shipped his pants. This is is hot. It is ugly, and he's with Tiger. So now we're sitting there, I'm watching him. I'm watching he goes in the trees on the right and he can't get anywhere because they're twenty deep right watching Tiger. So he's over there and the balls, the ball is a good eight yards from where he is, and I go, David, I said, I know you're down there looking at that lie.

What's it look like? I look up and he gives me the finger. Okay, he's done the middle of people and he gets here the finger, So I got him. Now he knows that I know he shipped his pants, and he doesn't want to go anywhere. So get up and and you know it makes up something about the lie and he hits it about fifteen feet Okay, So David doesn't move, he stays underneath the trees way back there. You don't want to walk for obvious reasons, so get

out his pot. Tigger has got about a fifteen foot and he's kind of he's kind of tiger walking around looking and I gotta but I know you got down early and looked at this. Now we've got the camera right behind the ball and you could see it it is. We've got what that what I call warm camp then and sitting on the ground looking you can see the break and it's a break of about five six inches right the left. David goes and he goes, yeah, I think this punch should go about three or four inches

to the right. I said, really, okay, Kenny, we know we had a picture of it. It goes right. He goes, oh, well, I didn't see that. So now we waddle off and we go play. He goes and play seventeen and eighteen. Now everybody now knows, and including Lands, our director Lance Borow fairly gets done and the compound is right above the green, it's only about sixty yards away. David gets done, Tiger puts out, David starts hauling up the hill. It's

got to change his pants and everything else. Lands goes David holding stay there and get an interview from Tiger. So we go to commercial break and the camera locks it on. There's three of them and he's got and David David is on one side, Tigers in the middle, and Stevie Williams on the other. So we keep the camera on and we keep and they take the commercial off of our air feed, and we're watching this and we're sitting there. We're wondering when Tiger is gonna say something.

So we go and the next thing you hear is Tiger and Tiger haste to do interviews. Hates it, doesn't want to stay around to do any of these interviews. Especially He's gotta wait, David, how long we got to get on this commercial? David Lance Lance. Tiger wants to know how long if we're down here, there's seconds Tigers all right, all right? So they shut down again and the commercials going and Tiger you see him, Jesus God, Stevie, what,

I didn't do anything? And he turns to Dave. It and his heads serving like this going around, and David meets him. His head goes, that's way. He says, I shot myself on fifteen. Tiger goes, what and he jumps out of the way. He jumps backwards away from it, and now Alans goes, let's go down to David. He's got Tiger Woods, Tigers. He's running away from it. David's got the mic. He's trying to get an interview his pants and fort crap, and Tiger and Stevie are running

like hell and he can't get the interview. And it was it was it looked like the three stooges out there really did. So that's that's a story behind the scenes of David Ship and his pants uh on a hot day with Tiger in an interview, and Tiger smelled it. It was really bad. Yes, really, So that's the way television goes. I'm not sure if I'm glad you told that story or not, but it's out there. Yeah, exactly wanted a story. So that's a story I used, had

a lot of speeches. I can go twenty minutes on that. For a quick addenda. That story as it relates to Gary's uh former colleague, longtime CBS newsman, Walter Cronkite. Do you ever meet him? Gary? I I did not, but Frank chick Kenyan was his onset director at CBS. UH in news with Walter, and that's one when did When did Walter die? There's a certain age so like, yeah, I would get mid lady. Yeah, I didn't know this.

This where his CBS newsman Walter Cronkites three rules of life, as it relates to this conversation, Uh, never trust a fart, never turned down a drink, and never ignore interaction. That would be yeah, yeah, from speaking for old announcers, yeah, that would be a pretty good three. Doble a. Clearly it's time to end this podcast. Uh Gar, You've been a great sport. Thank you, Thank you for your time, um and all all the stories. Jeff any any parting

words for you? Your former pigeon out at that whisper no, No, that was great magic. Thank you. Um, I've heard most of them before, but it's always good fun. Um. Yeah, he'll give me, he'll give me five and I can't beat him, and so much when you get back a few weeks probably so I really opened sometimes so we'll say, yeah, bring bring me twenty. Well that was a journey. Yeah, you just gotta push play right, You're just gonna ask one question and you get whatever you want from Gary.

He's uh, but I tell you he's nobody is more passionate and enthusiastic about golf and the tour and the whole sport. And um moost guys who grew up and played in his era. Would traditional gods are? Are Are? They like metal sparks and passimmon woods and bladas. It was so much better in Maday. But he's not like that at all. He embraces every year as it comes along. He just froths on golf every day the year. Yeah, he's fantastic. And his story he's got more stories, and

he's he's fair. He's he's had this magnetism for the characters that have played golf in the last fifty years. He's always hanging around the characters Mac O'Grady and John Jacobs and um does magic tricks in the bar. And yeah, he's an entertainer. He's fantastic. I missed I missed him on the airwaves too. He just see he made it fun, as he was saying, I mean, it's it's supposed to be fun. It's an entertainment product. And of course it's serious and it's meaningful, but the viewers at home want

to be entertained. I always thought he was great at it. I'm sorry, I'm sorry we don't get more of them. He also showed it and uh, I've been reminded this occasionally over the years, but you didn't see it on TV. Really, he's got a lot of moves in this game. I mean he played obviously a really high level, or he would not have one of the tours where he won. And of course he's a he's a wonderful storyteller, and he's he's knowing everybody and appreciates people who aren't really

famous the game, like a John Jacobs. But then when he got in the weeds of talking about you know, the money and and live p J Tour and how it relates to versus the sixty or the other way around, you should probably say it. He's got a really sharp mind and a really big grasp. But it's it's interesting to hear him describe himself as as dyslexic, but you know, with that dyslexia often comes a lot of creativity and interesting ways of looking at things. And uh, it's neat.

It was neat to listen to him all these different moves moves that he has. Honestly, I love hang out with Mac for twelve hours straight takes a uh. I mean I actually love his idea for for telecasting live events like that. Would that would be a major improvement because now they're trying to do it like the tour does it, but just it's not they're not too in it as well, you know, but like to completely blow up the whole medium. I mean a a McCord charity

Charles Barkley, I mean, it's guaranteed to be entertaining. Didn't reflect well on Greg Norman. That that that Greg Gorman couldn't take twenty minutes to hear Gary McCord out guy who's got thirty five years in TV to hear what would you do with your TV broadcast? It's wild. I don't know. I would. I would spend the thirty minutes listening to him. I mean that, Yeah, that could be a game, right, I mean, if you put a camera on, keep bringing up Whisbrock. But he's remember he's the he's

in the guys every day at whist Brock. But if you watch the golf on the weekend at west Brock and you just put a tyble on, you put a camera on the table where he was sitting in a few are the other guys. That's why more entertaining than what we get on TV. It's and it's it's how we all watch golf rock, don't we sort of want to hear intelligent Lewis fun chat about what's going on. We don't need to tell someone that God just hold the six foot because we just saw it with our os.

Just give us conversation over the top. That's real fun. It would be fantastic entertainment, even if it was non official. You know, you could like the Manning thing, You could just put a camera on experts and let him talk about it and be fantastic. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Gary McCord, what a guy. He just strikes him as someone who's got no plan for the day. He's gonna wake up and see what the dame rings is. My impression is that would that be about it, right, Chef?

That's pretty true. Yeah, he's always he just he gets excited about things like if you present him with something. Yeah, he wakes up, what's going to happen now and someone presents him with something, or if his phone rings and someone calls him with something interesting. Interesting things just happened to him, um or he turned he makes them interesting. That happened to all of us. But he he grabs

the thread and takes it and makes it interesting. He'll turn up to he'll turn up to the golf club with this manuscript of some sort of golf machine guy who has done a thesis on the golfing from a physics perspective, and it will be this binder with all this loose leaf stuck in it that's foes and he'll be going through it saying se Max said this was true too, and this guy scientifically proved it. And then the next day he'll be coming down with some prototype.

He was sort of connected with Bob Parsons a little bit of time when he started p x G and why can't I make a legal equipment Like I just want the ball to go as far for everyone as I can. And he gets involved in equipment, Um, he'll advised mentor like and play with all the young sort of young up and coming to a players, it was probably yeah, he does it all. He just he's a really fun guy to hang around and that sort of enthusiasm is contagious. I love it. Well, certainly a Lavely podcast.

All right, this was another need of fourth We'll keep we'll keep doing these. We have some other very fun interesting guests coming up. So um for now, I'm Alan Shipnuk. That was Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger and of course the one only Gary McCord. Thank you for listening, and uh that's it. That's the end. M m mm hmmm. Oh my god. It's a dangerous group here.