Need A 4th?! Ep. 10 with Christina Kim

Let let's see. Have I ever told you about my last visit with Arnold? I saw Arnold. I would like to thank no reporters or Arnold more than I did when he was in his eighties. My last visit with him was in Latrobe, and I drove there wearing these pathetic birken stocks when I got always, I'll just wear my shoes when I get there. But when I got there,

all I had was my Echo golf shoes. And Arnold's really formal, and I'm going into his office with my cleaned up Echo golf shoes and armost like checking me out, and he's nodding, and I said, what you're looking at my socks and these arms like, no, I'm looking at your shoes. And then Arnold talked about all the different shoes he wore, and no question, Arnold Doug the Echo shoe. I love the Echo Show. I know you do too. Uh,

it's a great shoe sales resistant. If it's good enough for Arnold Palmerton Fred Couples, it's good enough for the rest of you. So go to Echo dot com and um you can find one that fits that you like that people will stare at, like Arnie. So back to Need a Fourth. Hello, this is Alan Schipknuck back for another Need a Fourth podcast, as always, joined by Michael Bamberger in Philadelphia. This time Jeff Ogilvie is in the fire Pit Offices in Oceanside, California. Boys, it's it's nice

to get the gang back together here. It's been a little while. It was a good time. Yeah, it's good to be here. I love it. Um, so we have we have a really fun guest tonight. UM. I can tell you that she is from the great state of California. At this exact moment, she's about three miles away from me. But um, that's unusual circumstances. She's here in Pebble Beach playing a tournament. Um she's three and oh all time

in Solheim Cup singles. She shot sixty one in her first ever LPGA event way back when, like turn of the century, Alan to do, uh to do? Write a book with her at one point in your life. Okay, you got it. The one and only Christina Kim is our guest on Needa fourth Christina to show yourself she is. That was dramatic. I love that. A pizza paper covering the camera. Yes, yeah, for those who are not watching,

Christina just that was the best for avail. We've had si file not even clothes, I mean easily the best. Um so Christina. So yes, we do have a long history, which Michael alluded to. And you've podcasted here on on the fire Pit Network in the past. But tell tell our listeners and our co hosts, like you've been out here for heck of a long time, Like where are you in your career? How hot is the fire burning? Like,

let's get caught up a little bit. Well, I have, as of the end of this season, concluded my twentieth year on the LPGA Tour, and I had I had the yips this year. And I figured this out early November. M Like you always hear, oh so and so had the yips and this that, and it's like you can see it this, this whatever whatever. So you have this like vision in your brain as to what the yips are, and it is nothing. It's nothing like what your brain

can conjure up. Because honest to god, I've probably hit the ball better than I have in about a decade. And I I wouldn't have been able to stroke a dead horse if I was sitting on top of it. How bad did it get? Um uh, my birdies that I would make the random twenty footer, but if I was inside of eighteen ft, I could not. I couldn't hit my line, I couldn't get the speed right. I was um like flinching outside of like my entire aura.

And it was, uh, it was. It was crazy. And it wasn't every single put, but it was just enough to sit there and just cause you to just have no, no fucking clue what was going on. So, so, Jeff, at this point, you and I can just leave the room with the floors. Michael's because he's intimately familiar with this subject. I'm sure he wants to um to go into and gory detailed. Michael, the floor is yours. Do you hold on really hard at the left hand, take it outside and try to shove it in there without

any release whatsoever. No, my stroke does not look bad, but I just feel my soul flinching like two degrees with almost every stroke, and then I would be off balance like it. There was no there was no real discernible shove if anything, Like my pottern was always exiting too far left, and so it would be like a flip of the hands as opposed to a lack of a release. It was just, it was it was just.

It was insanity. It was insanity. What's your level, Christie, your Christina, your level of comfortable actually using the word yip, because like I was shocked years ago when I heard Tom Watson say once a yipper, always a yipper, like he was in recovery. Here's Tom Watson, one of the great golfers of all time, one of the great pudders of all time, admitting that he was in recovery from being a yipper and that you were never in full recovery. It was like being a recovering alcoholic. But are you

comfortable with using that word. Yip. I'm very comfortable one. Um. I I can relate to that on a a mental health level. UM. I always talked about how you know, years ago I almost committed suicide, and so my mental health is something that I have to be aware of all the time. And you know, on bad days, it's like, oh, hello, old friend, you can funk right off, but you're gonna

hang for a little while. That's cool. Um. And I I mean for a period of time, because I've always been, you know, in the last eighteen years of my career, been known to be one of the fastest golfers on the LPGA tour. I was pulling like whatever you would call it, like a Sergio or Kevin Nah with the grip thingy for like eight months to the point where I was I was like openly weeping as I was playing golf because you just had this thing in my

brain that just would not go. And so I was I was on the putting green at my golf course in Orlando, over at Orange Free Golf Club, and I was just I'm grinding, and I'm sitting here trying to figure out what on earth is happening, and it just dawned on me. I was like, then I said it to myself, I said, you had the yips. And so for me, it's it's similar to, you know, like what they say with in terms of like addictions. It's like, you know, recognizing that there's a problem. And I was

just like, ohh that putt was a yip. I had the yip. So just being able to face the fact of what was going on provided me so much freedom and so much of an ability to just be like, oh, okay, this is what you're doing. And I mean I was having I was getting putting lessons, and it was all the same thing of like you're peaking, your putter's exiting left, you're flipping your hands, you do like the kind of ship that I tell my Proram partners every Wednesday prior

to a tournament round. I was cumulatively, cumulatively doing that myself as a touring professional. And so when I realized I had the yips, I was like, son of a bitch, Okay, so now I know what I've been doing. So now I know what to do to make sure that that stays a part of my past. I mean, you make it sound like a physical issue. Christina but the yips is metaphysical. I mean it's in your it's in your soul. It's it's I mean like Michael's. You may not know

it's about Michael. I play a lot of golf with He's right handed, as a very nice right handed golf swing and a very nice right handed putting stroke, but he carries the kind of putter that he can if he feels it coming on, he can just go lefty. And so when I've played a lot with Michael, but not everyone has, so we'll be out in the golf course and all of a sudden they're like, wait, has he been putting left hand this whole time? Like no, no,

just just on that three footer. And so it's you know, like Michael, what does it feel like for you when when you're struggling, like can you put a name on it? Um? I feel like I know I've got no chance of making it righty and that lefty, like I'll read it bad, but but I won't stroke it bad. So so the mis feels less bad. Is really not fair to Jeff to be having this conversation front and you gotta face this ship because then now you know how to combat it.

Are you kidding me? Jeff, you're you're you're putting stroke has always been smooth and simple and you've never struggled. I need this, so imagine. Um, I've yipped a few parts, I think, um, but it's never caught on for very long. I think it's it starts out technical. I think it

ends up mental. But surely it starts out technical. I mean, parting is so simple, like it doesn't take much to get your ball position out by an inch or something, and all of a sudden that's just not taken off where you're looking, and you miss a couple that you thought you were going to make, and then before you know what, you're telling yourself you're a ship. But under your breath, you know, like, I don't know, um. Chipping, I think I've seen how is you chipping? Christina far

It was it was yipping. It wasn't again, it was just bad enough for it to not be like I feel like I could make every chip, but it was the same kind of thing where it's like you felt, I felt like I was yipping chips. Yeah, I've seen some guys have a lot of trouble chipping. Chipping is actually more damaging I think sometimes and you can get away with it because you can just part right. But if you get on short grass and you have to chip and you've got the yips. No, it was a

stone in the seed tiger with the chip yips. And I don't care what anybody says, he I don't. I mean he was flinching and he was he looked awful, and as Jeffe said, it was on the tight lies, you know, fluffy lies. He was fine, but on tight lies you could make Have you two ever played in a tournament together. I've seen him, We've been in the same tournament at the Victorian. I've been um to the minutes and women's run in conjunction at the same time. Um. Yeah,

it's a good event. Yeah, alternating tea times male female male female. That was the first time I ever actually laid eyes on him. It was It was pretty special night top ten that year. Why don't they do that as a mixed team event? Would't that be so fun to actually have the men the moon playing alongside each other, not not sort of concurrently. I think it's coming. I mean Australia has got three or four sort of men and women playing the same events. Sort of thing. I mean,

it's coming. There's certainly a desire for I think, um, maybe my peers and Christina's piers need to open their minds up a little bit to it, and maybe the powers that be I don't know. I think there's a few and there's enough for shooes in golf at the moment to not start chasing stuff like that. But I think it would be a great tournament that J C. Penney wasn't that. I remember that J C. Penny when

I first got on tour. That was the thing, right, yes, um, and that was what to apply an OPG player and his seniors tour champions to him. Maybe just the two, just the two. Um. I don't know why that would have been a great event. I imagine was it great? Was the greatest caring of all time? John Daily with Christie Christina? Can you get as part of me, Christina? Because when you first came up to me, you were

Christie and I know Christina has really would to go. Now, Christina, do you remember who John Daily played with Laura Davies. I was, I was not. I wasn't really, I wasn't on tour yet when when the J C. Penny was still taking place, I would guess Laura Davies. Laura Davis, Yeah, that those two together were fantastic. Um, that's an awesome pay So before we leave the topic of the yips, because it is it is so fascinating to me. By the way, real quick, we're putting explicit on this podcast

episode right now. Sure the children. Um, Jeff, I'm curious, like, what's the worst case you've ever seen on the PGA tour of a guy who had the yips on the greens on the greens Yeah, Ernie, Well, I think the worst single part I've ever seen, I didn't see it live was Lucas is part for sixty at Greensboro. Um, it's on YouTube Lucas Glover that he was going through a rough time. Lucas had it tough for a while, Um,

but fought through it and got through it. Um, Ernie, Ernie's got pretty bad that year in Augusta was pretty comedy show when he just couldn't get the ball in the heart. I mean, that's a scary grain different putting well. Um, and you can see it's I've part of I've had four parts they're putting well, like hitting three good parts and they all missed you know, so it can happen. Um, But yeah, Lucas is part of Greenspro. I think he

would have been it too. He nearly missed the blight like on at it was tough, but he found it back. I mean the guys, I mean he's still out there applying well. I just think if I think about Ernie, like you, you go into Augusta so full of hope and and you spend all week long practicing and making the scene. In the first hole of the first round, you out in six ft and it's like you have thirty five bar holes to play. It must have just been an absolute death march, like for both of you guys.

And when when you get off to a bad start, and like, how how do you soldier through that? Well, So in twenty twenty get to the CME final round. Um, I end up having to incur a two stroke penalty because I got to the tea box. I there was a cart, right, there were no carts around. We were the first group out whatever. At the end of the day, I should have gotten there sooner. But regardless, get to the tea, I jump out of the tea I like flying squirrel it onto the tea box and like, did

I make it in time? And the rules official Mitch Moon was like I'm really sorry you didn't And I was like, can I still play? And he said, yeah, go for it. So I made I forget. I think I made triple and then I had seven birdies after that, Like ship happens? What do you? What are you gonna do?

Like it's like the future has never written, um we have, you know, on the LPGA, we call it the kiss of death, where if you birdie the first hole and you don't back it up either with a birdie in the in one of the next few holes, or if you miss in seemingly easy par putt in the next couple of holes, you're fucked. Whereas if you make bogey on the first hole, it's like you you know it, you can just you take the valve off. You're just like,

funk it, all right, let's just go. Let's just go, you know, as as deep as we can and see what happens. That's fascinating. I love to know what the browser is. Mentally fragiles, I would concur with that actually, like it's not ideal, but some of your best rounds of boggies on the first very often, and birdies on the first can turn out poorly. Um it's funny. It happens a lot. Yeah, yeah, sometimes, yeah, it happens a lot.

It's funny. Expectations really powerful, I think, and I think when you get rid of your expectations, you play play, you play like yourself. You know, expectations there's baggage you don't need. And so when you birdie the first and you're feeling really good, especially the first time of a major, because people have been preparing for the Masters for nine months mentally, you know when I used to be hitting

balls in January thinking about it. Um yeah. And if you got boggy double the first very first Masters I ever played, I hit it over the back on the first and someone said that all you look here here about the first The whole first week is don't hit it over the back of the first, don't hit over the back of the first. Second shot the Masters, I hit it over the back of the first. Um yeah, make double. And maybe I made boggy and bertie the second. I was on my way. You know, it's almost a

good thing. I love that. Um so, Christina, I mean you say, twenty years on the LPG Tour, that's an incredible accomplishment in any circumstances. And I mean, this is gonna end up in a compliment, but it's gonna start like not not gonna sound like it. You haven't won that many tournaments. And when you win tournaments, you get the multi year exemptions and it makes it easier to stay out there for twenty years. So to be to get two decades straight on only a handful of winds

is unbelievable. It speaks to your consistency, your tenacity, your grit. I mean, do you do you pat yourself on the back like, man, I've brawled it out year after year, like it's impressive. I don't really think of it that way. Um My thing is just obviously you go out trying to win every event. Uh, this year it was trying to make cuts, um, which I was only successful a

handful of times even this year alone. But you know, I don't, I don't know, it's it's it's I'm generally very very fortunate that I can pretty much stay in the moment so well that and I like to say that I have a short memory that Um yeah, I mean funk. These twenty years have flown by so quickly. That's that's part of it. Like it's it's it's mind boggling to me, the thing that has been what like nine years or some ship since my last win or whenever it was. I mean, I don't it's it's remarkable.

I don't even think about it in that same way. So for me, you know, my first win was, yeah, nineteen years ago, doesn't seem like it was that long ago. And my last miscut was a couple of months ago for whatever reason, that almost seems like it's farther back in time to me. Um So I just, you know, I just try and stay in the moment and just enjoy it, and once that enjoyment goes away, then it's

time to to hang the boots up. But you know, I mean, I you get those moments where like for me, like I had the yips, Like just being able to say that, I started crying because I was like, finally I know what the hell was going on. And I got so excited to be able to say I had the yips, And now I can start a streak of awesome strokes and hopefully some made putts afterwards. That, you know, it's just, you know, it's hard to kind of put into words. But at my last turn of I actually

had a lady come up to me. She was following me around and she she didn't shut up all day and she actually, excuse me, she only talked when I was eating for the entire two rounds, which you know, bless her heart. It's it's it's you know, you deal with that as it is anyway on tour. And she came up to me after now She's like, oh my god, like I've been a fan of yours for so long, this that whatever, whatever. I get that a lot, and

I think that's that's that's that's really really nice. And you know, I was like, I love you, and I'm like, it's because you say that because you don't know me, honey, you know. And she was like, you know, it's just so crazy to think, you know that, you know, I finally get to meet you after all these years. And I was like, I know you meant that in the

nicest way possible. I'm not in a I'm in a very fragile mind space as it is right now, so I'm going to do my best to not be insulted by that, but I'm I'm pretty highly offended at this point. I'm offended by everything that you do. Lady. Now I'm very nervous to ask any question. Allen stop, I'm in a much better head space. Come on, I'm over the yips. I ask you this because, yeah, I read this in the paper today. I got the partner says to the partner,

why are you always roller skating? And the answer was because you never see anybody roller skating who's in a bad mood. And it made me think about golf, like I'm generally I'll have moments of frustration, as we all do, but generally very happy to be on a golf course. So, Christina, as you dealt with the mental health issues, what role did golf and being on golf courses play in improving

your mental health? Um? So, when I was at my the period of time where I was my worst with my mental health, it was simultaneously golf was simultaneously a refuge as well as the source of my pain. Um I was still you know, I was. I was in my mid or early twenties. I was still associating my self worth with my score. I you know, I've always

had a very good sense of self. But I've you know, there's always going to be a part of you that, um, you know, when you're younger, at least you think you know. I mean, I was always a caretaker. I was always the one that would like I could read someone's body language and I'd be like, hey, are you okay? What's going on? Like, let's talk about it. And so I I never knew that there were other people that could do that for me, and no one, truth be told, no one ever did that for me except for my

boyfriend Duncan. Um. Everyone always came to me with their problems and I would help with the problem solving. I would be an ear to listen to. But no one ever asked me how I was doing. And so I

was never able to express that I wasn't doing well. Um. And so because of that perception that people had of me, I I shut down doubly so, and that as a result, just ended up festering inside of me and having that persona of Christina's always bubbly, Christina's always having fun, this, that, whatever, whatever. It's like, Yeah, I mean I'm still having fun, but I'm fucking dying inside and no one is asking me, and I don't know how to ask for help because

I'm always the one giving it, so um it. At times it was both my refuge as well as a sourbs of my pain. Nowadays, I mean like I'm here at the Pebble Beach Invitational right now. I I got a call Wednesday at eleven fifty seven in the morning back in Florida saying, hey, we need you. Someone had to pull out. There's an eight thirty three tea time here in California. I was an hour and a half away from my house. And thankfully, just because I've been on tour for so long, I was I'm always in

like a perpetual state of like semi packed um. I always say it's like it's like my like my Preppers version of a bug bag, um, a bug out bag. And so I was like, Okay, let me see if I can get a flight that one leaves late enough that I can catch it, but two arrives early enough that I can make my eight thirty three tea time. And lo and behold, I was able to find a flight that took off at five thirty in the afternoon

landed just before eleven PM. The bags were delayed by over an hour in SFO, and then how to go from SFO and make my way down to Monterey. Um, long story short, I got into the room like tot up at eight thirty, like I I and I'm having the time of my life, Like how can you not when you're here in in in at Pebble Beach and

you know, playing I'm I'm playing um Spyglass tomorrow. Like it's just like because I'm in a place where I can cope with myself and I can understand things better, and I have a grasp of, you know, really who I am to this point in my life, Like it's fucking amazing, Like and golf has been much more of a savior, even in those times where I'm like, well, okay, I yipped it again from eight feet and that is

my six yip today from inside of ten ft. It's like, god damn it, I'm hitting inside of ten feet, like I like, I can't even throw anything inside of ten ft like regards if I've already inside of ten feet

from the object. So it's one of those things where it's just an unbelievable, like incredible battle of of you know, I mean, I would say so analogous to life, but it's it's you know, I'm going to overdramatize it, but it's like the good versus evil and the yend and the yang in the dark and the light and and and and golf is just such a beautiful, um example

of that. If you you know, if, if, if you're going through it, which your girl was, Jeff, I'm wondering how much you relate to that because listeners to this podcast, no you're I'm sure they think of you as an easygoing, low key, mellow dude. But on the golf course, you could run hot and you were almost the perfectionists in some ways. I mean, did you burn yourself out a little bit just by being so hard on yourself? Ah? Yeah,

I think. Um, it's hard not too though, Like Christina says, I mean early in your career, it takes a long time to not well. It's very rare the golfer who doesn't attached their self worth or their happiness level to their scores. You know, like when you're playing well, you're all happy and you're up and about, and you played bad for a few weeks, all of a sudden you think you're a bad person, you know. Um, it's a pretty frustrating job. Um. But as Christina said, I mean

it's the best teacher as well. I mean it's the best psychologist. I mean, golf as a sport is the best psychologist I've ever talked to, you know. I mean, because the whole game is a bad against yourself. Really, it's I mean, we have other opponents out there that you guys like to write about, but it's really a battle against yourself. Um. And everyone's always in sort of a different phase of their battle, you know. And you

it's always you're going around in circles. At one point you get it, you're working out, and then you get further away from it, and then you find it again, and then you get further away from it, and you find again. That's the cycle. And I guess the more you can go through that with a little bit of awareness, um, gradually, mentally I just got less affected. Later on. I definitely got burned out because I tried. I didn't try too hard. I don't think you can try too hard. I think

I took it too hard, took it too seriously, you know. Um, I think at some point you sort of come to the point where I would try to take since try to play sincere golf not serious golf, you know, so

all in, but it doesn't really matter, you know. Um, and when you're playing your best, it's like that it's a little bit cavalier and it's very free and it's um a lot of fun um and better for your mental health because if you're taking it too seriously, you know, I mean, you've got some pretty miserable nights and hotel rooms and you do that two or three weeks in a row. Um, you don't let your job very much. So yeah, it's a great teacher, though golf if you let it, if you let it be a teacher, it's

a great teacher. Well, and I'm sure winning the US Open at a pretty young age complicated that because I'd only raise the the internal bar, right like, yeah, I mean, the expectations go nuts, and then everyone asks no one ever used to ask, like if there's one bad thing about winning a big tournament like that, or winning big tournaments, is that you can't play golf tournaments anonymously anymore, you know,

And I kind of miss playing golf tournaments anonymously. I mean I kind of get to do it now because no one really notices me anymore. But um, just turning up, play your golf tournament, go through your stuff, play, put your scores in and go. Like once you win a big tournament, everyone's asking you how you're playing all the time, and why don't you're playing any good? I thought you were a bit better than that. I thought I had my money on you this week, Jeff, and all that

sort of stuff. It just wears you out a little bit if you let it. And I think it happens to everybody. I mean, how many times you see guys win a major or golf has when a major and they have a great little six months because they're informed, but then for a couple of years they drop off because it's just it's different. I don't know, it's hard. I'd like to think that I handled it okay, but um,

it's tough. It is a tough sort of period. Like expectation is a big enemy, I think, and it's hard to get past that because the better you play, the high year expectations are. But then you go buggy. The first as we were talking about, before, all of a sudden your head goes head comes off because you thought you were going to win by six, you know, meanwhereas if you win and win no expectations, you buggy the first, you don't really care um and ultimately the buggy on

the first doesn't make any difference. I mean, how many people win tournaments with the buggy on the first? I mean probably every second week. So anyway, Yeah, it's a fascinating journey mentally professional golfer. I think you'd get interesting answers from everyone who's been doing it for a long time. As you surely know. You know. Links Al is a clothing and a lifestyle brand. I've been wearing it for at least a decade. It's cool stuff, it's super comfy,

and one of the Firepit loves it. We'll believe verse. If you go to links all dot com and use the promo code fire Pit twenty five, you will get off your purchase. You're welcome, and we're also giving away a two links Old gift card per episode. So go to the fire Pit YouTube channel and leave a comment from this episode and say how much you loved it,

because surely you're loving it. You're a golf fan, you have to be loving this, and the winners will be notified and promoted on our Instagram and our Twitter feeds. So get involved. We're trying to have some fun. We also have to pay the bills here at the fire Pit Collective. So back to ned a fourth my cost? You leaning forward in your chair, you like I sent an eagerness here, don't jump in. Come on, um, Christina, I'm sure you know that Jeff is uh very much

a student of golf course architecture. I've never gotten a chance to hear you on those same subjects. What are some of your favorite courses in the world. Have you had a chance to do any golf course design? Work yourself well to answer your your ask question, No, but I I it's hard to see to speak in front of this group because I I would say, I'm I'm definitely a novice when it does come to golf course architecture, but I do love and appreciate it. Um. It's interesting.

I've I've come to realize that some of my best golf gets played on seth Rainer style or excuse me, seth Rainer design golf courses. Uh. There's just something about the way that the courses tend to flow. It fits my mind's I. Um, but I I am a fan of architecture. I just I'm still very much a novice and and you know, golf course design would be something

that I would love to get into. But when it comes to you know, the understanding of you know, soil composition and then you know in relation to that, like you know and then location, humidity levels, um, you know, the way the seasons change, what type of grass types are are better suited for that. Like I would just want to sit there and be like I want a fescue golf course because fescu is the best grass on the planet and leave it at that. And you know,

have have some you know, unbelievable um. You know, like I want to have her dance but it's all of that stuff. But I'm not, uh, I'm I'm I'm very humble in this group to be honest when it comes to that. Um, But I've played some unbelievable courses. I mean, Mountain Lake is is this unbelievable hidden gym just outside an hour outside of Orlando. It's a Seth Reiner design where it just it's just such a special special place. Um.

Will shure I think has become a super fun golf course. UM. And and one of my favorite courses to go run up to whenever i'm up near the up in in in Michigan. Haven't played Crystal Down yet, but I love going and checking out the loop that that Tom Dope did over at Fort Students. And it's just you know, I I don't know, I'm very um. I feel like a five year old girl trying to sit with the adults at the adult table right now. When it comes to architecture, I think you and Jeff actually are are

very similarly aligned. I mean I know Christina a little better than the other two folk on this chat, and like Christina is a very old school and how she thinks about the game, she's a purist. Um, there's there's you know, despite the colorful wardrobe. I mean, I think you're you're living in like the nineteen fifties as far as how you think about the game, like and Jeff of course is old school to the bone, so set

inside the architecture. But um, you know, whether it's it's yardage books or it's lasers, or it's piece of play or whatever. Like, I think you guys actually see it exactly the same, even if you don't know that it's a very highly paid compliment, So thank you, Allen. No, but it's true. Christina. Do you remember, um, have you played Mary in more than once? I have, No. I have only played Mary in the one time when Alan and I were on our book tour. I was in

that game. It was no, it was a girls group. It was Alan sho Allison Shoemaker, um that Alan had gotten me set up with, and she about two of her girl her her lady friends, and we were playing it in the months prior to Justin Rose winning at Marian and I was I think I was. I don't know if I should say this, but I believe I was the only person allowed to hit off of the grass for like the for the like three months prior to the U S Open being held there. That's what

all those divots were doing. And my memory is, uh that that you played from the from the back tees and shot sixty nine is what was reported to me at the time. And uh, you know, just farries and greens and made a couple of pots. Fairies, Greens make a couple of pots. That's that's that's ultimately what golf comes down to. And and you know, Marian, it was so funny. It's very the the game has played very differently from with the men versus the women in many regards.

Like I always joked because you know, like like going and playing the vic open Um was honestly one of my favorite experience is because you know you're you're going. I played practice rounds with like with Aaron Pike, with Brett Rumford and and Jordan Mulaney, so so three Australian guys and I was um playing and and um um. James Morrison walks up and he's like, hey, we're just gonna walk if we can watch you guys this that whatever.

And I'm like sure, and I'm like, god, you guys hit the ball so far and he's like, you hit it so straight. And it's just so funny because it was sort of like game recognized as game. And I just kind of sit there and I'm like, I joke like we don't have enough clubhead speed to make the ball go right or left, you know. I I kind

of joke in that sense. Um, And I always I always, you know, And I talked with some of my guy friends as well, you know that are various levels of professional golf, and I'm just like okay, We'll tell me like, it's twenty yards a narrow fairway. Most of the time people will say yes. I'm like, okay, well, in twenty yards, you've got how many feet are in a yard? This? Three? How many inches are in the foot this twelve? So in a twenty yard fairway you have sixty feet. In

the sixty foot fairway, you have seven inches here. To take the I am out of a golf ball and divide that by those seven you can fit four hundred and twenty four point seven golf balls in a twenty yard fairway. So one golf ball is less than a quarter percent of a fairway. And the guys get so mad at me because I just have a different sense

of perspective. And they were like, yeah, but if you hit it farther than you know, there's more potential for deviation this, that, whatever, whatever, even the wind can cause it to drift whatever. And I'm like, okay, then use your head and like, recognize the ball is gonna fly that far. So at this velocity of wind, the ball is going to travel this much more in one direction

or the other. Like, don't give me that as an excuse, son, Like you you're at your level, you should know, you know what your angle of attack is, how far to the right you're swinging and be able to do the math that way. And then they get kind of they oftentimes get mad and walk away, But there are a couple that are just like I never thought of it that way. Fairways are less narrow now because it's all a matter of perspective. That's neat. Christina, do you remember

when Anica played in the in the Colonial Tournament. I I am. I was not glued to my television because I was trapesing about in a beat up dodge van playing in what is now absent tour events with my dad on the bag, But I was I was aware of it. Yes, and and and I remember her walking. I just remember her like nearly falling down walking off that first tee box. Yeah, yeah, that was fun. But just what you said, I mean, she she picked it.

She picked it apart. Uh you know, she played it like, you know, like Hogan would have played a US open course. She absolutely picked it apart, and she missed very few fairways, and she needed to not miss arrows because that roof is his piano and relative strength would have been would have been you know, stopping balls on Green's out of that Roff would have been much more challenging for her

than C. B. J. Singh. But just what you said, she played such intelligent golf and it's just a pleasure to watch you know, you or Stacy Lewis or Honica or any of the great players today, Um pick apart golf courses with intelligence. I don't think it's any any coincidence that you said Seth reren or you know, of all the names you could say, you'd say Seth Rerener because he would appreciate the way that that that you play golf. Jeff, what does it mean when Christina could

name any architecture she named Seth Reiner? Well, how did that hit your ears? Wow, she's picking a good one, didn't she? Um? Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean Ryans and he was prolific on the East guyst to the US when I mean fantastic. Um yeah, I don't. I don't think it matters. Um, I mean US snobs. I mean I'm a bit of a snob, but I mean I don't I mean talk. I've read all the books and all the names of all these people and stuff, but I don't think that really matters. If you enjoy

playing golf, they you enjoyed playing golf there, you know. Um, it's interesting to talk about over a glass I read at dinner or something, you know again zivs Reiner or whatever, and people want to talk about. But um, there there's just sort of especially the old that golden age, there's just some something about courses that weren't nature that wasn't was less messed around with, you know, and they had to use whatever was there, and they were a bit

more creative. I think probably um and the player and then the and the clubs that have recognized that and preserved what Ryner and Ross and McDonald, McKenzie and that that they're the smart ones that preserved what was there. Um, they're enduring, you know, they just never don't every new generation that comes along they appreciate it, you know. Um, it's timeless. So yeah, right is a good Right is

a good pick. It's one of the best. Christina from time to time mentions playing golf with his dad And you just mentioned your dad cadding for you and as tour events a long time ago. What what was that relationship like? So I spent some time to his dad. He is such a character. I want to hear how you answer this, and I may I mean an are good? Okay? Well, during it was one of the most volatile relationships you could imagine in every way. In every way, because the

highs were so high, the lows were so low. There were just the the shouting matches we would have, like you know, in the middle of a round, and that's all we knew, you know. We're just like He's like it's a seven, and I'm like it's an eight. He's like it's a seven. And it's just like what is wrong with you? It's like, what's wrong with me? What's

wrong with you? I come from you, so it's clearly your fault, you know, like all of that stuff like, um, you know, we would have shouting matches like that, but we would always like we would ultimately always end up

making up. And and it took me a very long time, um, to realize one part of the reason why there was so much volatility is because I was screaming into a mirror like I am my father in so many ways, and so coming to that realization now it's like, well, yeah I am um, you know, I can be very strong headed. I I can be UM, you know more UM, you know, stick to my guns and and and say what I say and believe what I believe with conviction.

Although it's you know, maybe a little bit softer than than his general approach is UM, but it's you know, like my very first UM major championship was with my dad on my bag when I was seventeen years old playing at Pine Needles in the US Women's Open. I was a third low am that year. We had matching bike golf sandals that we would be going up and down the fairways in UM. My first professional tournament as

a professional was with my dad on the bag. My first LPGA Tour start was with my dad on my bag, my very first win, he was there on my bag, my first Solheim Cup, my first Solheim Cup point, my

dad was on the bag. And again because we're we're you know, I'm so fortunate that I can stay so focused on the moment and that a lot of times you you don't necessarily think about those things which are so in your in the event you're over this shot, you're you know, working on this, you're working on that, and so you know, it's it's like there was a lot of screaming, as there always is with you know, with parents and things like that, and at the end of the day, it's just like, you know what, I

love you, but I don't like you very much right now. So a lot of that, Whereas now it seems as the last ten years, I I feel like everything that I say to my dad is thank you. I'm sorry, you know, because I have a lot to to make up for. Um. But it's it was one obviously I would never trade it for anything else. And just the realization of how special and how rare that was, um, you know, being able to look back on that is

just it. It still gives me. Um. We chuckle about it a lot, and it does give me chills, and it's it's it's just something so special. But god damn if it was not hard at the time, but nothing worth having is. And that the sacrifices that you realizes, you know, once you're no longer a kid and you can actually look upon um, you know, your parents says as you know, beyond just parents, but just as human beings, and you're just like, I'm real sorry, Like you had

to endure a lot as a parent. You know, and um, it's just it's just awesome. Well this will interest both both of you guys are interesting to know. So when when when Christina's dad sort of ordained she was going to take out golf as a girl for a solid month, she had to make three drivers swings in the backyard five hundred and they were It wasn't like hold the finish set, back up swing. It was back and through

and back and through. So it was technically a thousand, you know in that regard without actually a golf ball, just swinging the club like oh there was a mat with the little yellow ball hanging on a rope on a hook. Ye, you didn't get to see it fly, which is about idea why I was doing it. I just did it because I was told to do it. You know, I was a good kid in that regard. I was just like all right, like I like, I'm

still amazed at the determination. Like I don't think too many kids would, would, you know, except that it's just there's no gratification, right, you don't get to you get to see the ball take off down a fairway against the mountains whenever, just like swinging the club over and over, I can't even do that now, Like that amazes me. There's a little bit of a gratification by way of spite. I'll tell you that, Jeff, what was your entry into the game. I don't think I know this story, Like

how did you fall in love with it? I don't know. Dad was always chipping in the back yard, I think, um, and I just followed him. I think like he got me a little cut down club and I went chipping out. He had those little whiffle remember the whiffle balls, like the ones of the house and the plastic ones used to be at it. We had like the I fry but kind of like an ife pitched roof whatever one.

He used to be able to hit him under the roof and they would bounce back down and it was like it would return the ball like almost the original net. So I love doing that. And then just he got me a little halfset I think at some point, and he's just started taking me to the golf course. I don't know, like I just always wanted to do it.

I mean we lived right next door to Rob Melbourne. Um, so you'd go on, you'd walk the dog as the family and I'd be looking for balls because they had like that, like the chain link fence all the way around. But every now and then you'd see a ball that might have been within arm width of the fence, you know, and you could find a ball. It was like gold. Um, and it was just always around like I just I don't ever remember not doing it. You know, Dad loved it.

Mom got into it a bit later on. Um, Yeah, it was just he was he was just a He didn't sit on the couch. If he wasn't a male in the lawn or doing something in the garden, he was chipping or hitting a tennis ball against the garage door or something. So I would just went out with him and that was it. You remember the first time you beat him. Um, it wasn't that big a deal. I don't think. Um, he wasn't that competitive. He was competitive, but he wasn't competitive with his golf. Um, he just

enjoyed us playing. I think I think he probably. I don't think it was that. It wasn't that monumental occasion like more. I was more it was like benchmarks for myself, like when I broke a hundred, that I broke ninety, and then I broke eighty. Then it broke seventy and then your handicapped down to scratch and all that sort of stuff. Like I think those sort of benchmarks were cooler for him. I don't think we even talked about it.

When I started hitting the past him, that was pretty fun because I remember all the way, going as far back as I can remember, it would be three shots of mine to get to his, and then i'd get to the two shots if i'd get my second shot past his, And then the next two months later, I'm getting my second shot like twenty past is, and then three months later it's like thirty past years, and then gradually you get your first shot up near his. Remember

when I started hitting it past him, that was fun. Um, yeah, good Tims, Christina. The players on tour, now, there there are some who are they're not half your age, but they're almost half your age, some that are less than half that are more than half my or less than half my age. Yeah that's really something, isn't it. Uh? Because you're not even forty, you're thirty eight, right? Uh so, uh, what how do they approach you? Are they are they

willing to ask you questions? Are they more likely to watch? How are they different from what you were like as a very young player on tour with with your tour elders. Um, well, the kids are smarter in a lot of ways. I think they come better equipped. Um, but at in the same vein, I think that they and these aren't like digs or compliments or anything. These are just strictly observations because they're potentially able to be better equipped and they

have access to a lot more things. Uh Um. I feel like there's a little bit more onset of knowing everything on the face of the earth at a slightly younger age with more conviction than when I was a kid. Um, But I mean I was. I was an annoying in certain ways, sheltered um, oblivious, ignorant, blissed out kids living her dream and I I you know, I I remember my my first win. I was walking up the seventy second hole Carrie Webb, who had been watching, you know

for for a long time. You know, at that point, um, there was one shot behind me and we've got this par four, a long part four with water down the entire left hand side and where Angela Stanford had her ball plug underneath the lip and almost disappear, uh green side. So we had to sit there and wait like an additional like twelve minutes while I figured out what the

hell was going on. I'm just sitting there, like just just trying to have a chin wag, and Webby like looks at me and she's like, hey, like, don't take this the wrong way, but like, you know, you've got one shot lead, right, And I'm like and she's like, and you know that I'm trying to beat you, right. I was like, She's like uh, and she just kind of walked away, and I was like, I hope you Bertie,

because I want to make Bertie too, you know. Like it's just like it's just like it was just it was so much I feel like it was much more fun and not like work in a bad way. But there's just something about you know, like growing up in the nineties and just having that that that sense of freedom and and ignorance and that lack of technology, I

think was something that was just so beautiful. You just you'd go to the range and then you would find you know, you get a bucket of balls, or I'd like, you know, i'd help out a little bit at the golf course and they'd give me some privileges to do some extra things or whatever, and and you get out there, you get balls and you just whack them. Like now I I I go to a tour event. If they were like pro vs that are scuffed, I'm like, well, I'm uping these guys. I'm not going to hit those

with my driver, you know. Like it it's as as a kid, and I'm sure they were just like spherical and white, yellow, orange painted. They'd say practice, they'd say dunlap, they'd say strata like it didn't those things didn't matter.

So so it's it is. It is definitely different. But there are some there are some some of the kids that have no problem asking questions and actually have a young girl, well she's twenty six, I should say she's Um, she's actually competing at second stage right now, and and um the other golf course, I'm over at a Golden Ocalla. She's she's been working there and is is you know, got some backing from some of the members and and

is making her way. And in the last couple of years, just you know, the director of golf was like, um, hey, you know you want do you mind going out and playing and let me letting me know, like what you think and I was like, yeah, sure, like I don't I like playing golf with people. So went out and this girl she's got like I think she's got like a hundred and eleven an hour club head speed but flawed like fluid fluid you wouldn't know where the speed

comes from. And she was just like, hey, thanks so much for playing. It was so much fun to set And I was like, yeah, dude, like nowhere, like here's my number, like if you ever have any questions about stuff,

like just ask me. And then she's she's got no fear asking questions, which I love because there's so many kids that are just like, you know, I don't want to bother you, or you know, I'll be like, hey, you know if you want to bounce some ideas off of me, like I got like twenty minutes like let's go,

and they're just like are you sure? And I'm like, can you at least pay me the service of respecting the fact that if I say something to you, I genuinely mean it, Like if I don't want to talk to you, I wouldn't have talked to you already, Like I'm happy to offer this, like I'm I'm I'm I'm letting you know, like don't with me, Like what you see is what you get. If I say I've got twenty minutes, boom, let's see what we can do in twenty minutes, and then we'll probably end up going over.

But that's okay, too um. But she's you know, she's she's just she's just my little rocks and I'm just like super super excited to see how her career kind of goes from here on now. And you know, just it's nice to see kids that ask questions. And then like last week we worked on like t position based off of wind and how the wind can change to you know, it could be two hours difference between where you're you know, what side of the tea box you're teeing off from. And just seeing that like click in

her brain was like so gratifying to me. And it's one of those things where I'm just like people don't ask questions anymore. They just everybody knows everything, and I know I know nothing because I just want to learn everything that I can. So to see someone that's like, hey, you know, I you know something, can you help me? And I'm just like you think I know something. Oh my goodness, Okay, well, like let's fucking go. Does this go for? Have a name Christina? Her name is Destiny Lawson.

She is a Class A p g A member because she went to fair Estate through their PGM program, and so yeah, she's she's Class A. Her name is Destiny, really Destiny. Her name is Destiny. We call her d law Um. Yeah. It's not to sound like a bunch of old farts here, but it is amazing because I have college kids reach out to me on Twitter say, oh, I want to be a sportswriter. You know, can I pick your brain for some advice? And of course I

always say yes. I was like, call me on Tuesday at two o'clock, here's my number, and they won't call. I'm flabbergasted because, like when I was up and coming, if I had a chance to talk to Michael Bamberger like I was living for, I got to plan my

week around it. And this has happened so often. I'm realizing this is like some sort of weird generational thing, Like I don't know if it's states if I can't, I can't define what it is, but I know of what you speak, Like there there seems to be this barrier, maybe because everyone lives their life on their phone now that they're the human interaction is too much. I don't know, but I've been stood up so many times by college

kids and maybe it's just my personality. I don't know, but it just seems like, yeah, that that that curiosity has dissipated as a as a as a as a thing, and so I'm happy to hear that that you're you're finding people to mentor because it's not always easy. I'm sorry to be laughing, but what college kid calls on the phone though out well, because well I don't want to text with someone for half an hour, like if they want career advice, hop on a zoom hop on

like a Microsoft team's thing or something like that. Do voice notes, kids do voice notes all the time. Dean Beamon returned my call today. I called Dean Beamon and he called me back and he left me his phone number. Yeah, that's that's well, he's eighty five. That that should happen. But Christie, who's the biggest legend in golf that you have played with? Male? Male or female or otherwise? Oh

it would be for me either. Lorraino oh Chowa, I'm very biased as well as part of the reason, like that she's just straight up sticking out in my mind, or Serri Pok the kind of impact that the two of them have had, Like because with Sari Pok, like her her, the way that she was able to change the face of golf for like people talk about Tiger Woods and there's no question about that. But the impact that Seri Pok had on golf in Asia, I think is is you can't even compare the two. It is

just unbelieved. It's it's I think it's got to be Saie. It's got to be Saie for me personally, Um, I caddied for John Daily a couple of couple of months ago and a random long, just random sort of situation thing. Um, and he's just he's a legend in a in a completely different sense. Um. But you know, yeah, I would, I would. I would have to say it's got to be Seray PoCA. Lorena is a very close second. But I think that there is a there is a fair

bit of bias in that in that initial response. Well, and so we had she was like had a queenly presence. I mean, she was she was like Regal, There's something about her, the way she carried herself obviously, the way she played the game was so beautiful. But she's still in Korea. She will go out in big glasses, scarf around her neck, and people will in a big gass hat and people will be like, I know those thighs

and chase her around Korea. It is unbelievable. As Jeff about it, Jeff, do you remember Sarry Peck when she first came on the scene, Not not so much the madness about it, but the quality of that golf swing. I don't know that women's got and there was Mickey Wright who was in class by yourself. But Jeff, do you remember looking at her swing when she first came

on the scene. Yeah, yeah, because that was kind of just before Carry was coming out, and Carry sort of made Australians pay attention to the r p g A Again. I think you know she was a proper legend um. So I remember watching A, remember watching it a a little bit um and loving her action. Yeah. I can't say I could picture it right now, but I remember being

impressed with her game. I mean, her and Anika and Carry just showed just elevated the level I feel like to me, I mean, I hadn't been watching enough before. That's probably a ridiculous thing to say, but they played such a high level of golf there that um it got me watching. To be honest. Yeah, I would say I would say Car in Surrey Pack really come out of that scene. But it was so round and so beautiful, and Ernie very similarly, and and Michelle we as a

team literally at thirteen was the same. Just so beautiful and so rhythmic. It was what a spectacular swimming, What an exciting time for women's golf, and as you say, Christina grew the game and incredibly. I mean, and look at the LPG today really well you know when Justin Rose and Jordan Speed and all these formerly young but now you know it's the thirties. Golfers talk about tiger Woods, but that's every Pack influences every bit of significant on

the LPG h to this day. Yeah, yeah, I know she was special and thinking about carry, I mean, I think car is one of the greatest athletes I've ever seen in golf. Because it was actually in Australia, went down there to cover the on the LPG event and she wound up, Um, they I can get this, my verbon. She was bowling? Is that right? When when you're playing, um,

when you're playing cricket, is she's the bowler? I mean she she had the velocity and she was like dancing out there, and it was like an eye opener, like it was all it was all the golfers were playing and she was at a completely different level, just the way the way she moved, and it was like, Okay, now I kind of get it like this not just as an I swing, like she's a supreme athlete. That was That was a moment of clarity for me. Christian. When you think of women's majors, how many, how many?

How many are there in your mind? I would say this is by far the longest pause you've had from Christina on anything. I mean trying to think if I want to round up to four. It's such a good answer. I mean if we were talking five years ago then yeah, or even three years ago, yeah, the answer would have been four. Okay, you feel like the dinosaur has been diminished.

It's it's I just i I'm I'm very sad that we have left Palm Springs and that we have left a golf course that was designed specifically for us and our major championship. And I'm sad that we're no longer going to have a leap into pop He's pond and I am sad that, um, we're going to Texas. And the announcement was made, Um, you know when they were talking about wanting to do abortion bands and things like that,

like you know, funny stuff. UM. And I was sad that there was a group of the membership over at Mission Hills that was happy to see us go and didn't want us back there anyway for the last few years. And I'm um and and above all else like Chevron have done that, I will admit, like freely admit they've

done an unbelievable job with the tournament. And I've seen it go from you know, the the from the Kraft Nabisco to just yeah, the Kraft Nabisco to just the Craft, and then from the Craft, you know, it was the a and a inspiration and then now it's you know, the Chevron. So I've seen I've seen different iterations of this tournament by way of sponsors. Um. And it was a Dinoshoan at Kraft Nibisco as well. UM. But the fact that it's unknown. I don't know the golf courp

us that we're going to in Texas. I don't know what my thoughts are of playing in Texas at that time of year. I I don't know what types of traditions they're going to try and not try, but they are going to create for us. And um, you know, the the legacy of what Amy Alcott did by jumping into Poppies gunky Aspond that year for that very first time is it embodies so much of the spirit of the game and the fact that we've left that is

is difficult. UM. So I only say rounding up to four because I don't know what it's going to be like in Texas. UM, but I love that. You know what the RNA has done with um you know what the A I G Women's Open, and you know the the U S the U S Women's Open is. You know that was always cream of the crop for me.

That was always the biggest dream of my life. And KPMG with the Women's PG Championship have really stepped up and they are they are knocking on the door for most incredible major in in in the women's game for me right now, but I do you know, it's it's it's a nice battle to be able to witness and and partake in. UM. But truth be told, nothing will

ever top the U S Women's Open for me. UM. And you know it's it's it's just nice, you know, just knowing that you know, the Women's Open, you know is has only you know, it's only been a major for what twenty twenty some years, twenty one year or something like that. UM, so you know, there's yeah. And then we got heavy on yeah. Indeed, um little tournaments

didn't pay for their for their major role. Spicy but correct. Um, well that might that might be like the mic drop we need here to to end this podcast, Jeff, Jeff use a term little bit earlier about a different player, but proper legend. I think, I think in your own way, c K like you've you've been a huge force out there on the LPGA just UM, and it's awesome to hear your thoughts and so many different things. Um, we finally got this done. It was a little scheduling challenge,

so thank you. But I should I should mention that Christina is using my daughter's laptop my microphone. I went to Best Buy to get the little doo hickey to connect them, which I didn't find until like a couple of minutes before we came on, and I was like, Alan, what the fuck? When we did our podcast, it was always something happening. There was always some sort of a

glitch somewhere something. He'd always show up four minutes late like this that like you've made You've made some big strides, Alan, I'm proud of you and I've missed you. Yeah, I know me too. I'm so happy your back on these airwaves. Um boys, before we before we let Christina go, any any parting thoughts, Well, it's just so governed nerdy. I'm afraid to bring it up. But Christine and uh Jeff hit a wooden driver today, and I'm curious if you ever have done that in your life. Absolutely, I loved

per Simmons. I actually have a special edition Niblick back at the house. Her name is Josephine because she is beautiful, but she's a complete um. And my my boyfriend Duncan has a full set of hickory sticks. Um, I've got a replica gutty ball. I yeah, I mean I I I like to kind of joke and and say, you know, I because I actually started playing golf. It was like in ninety five night. Yeah, towards the end of ninety five.

And so we had, you know, like the original tailor made burner, which was the metal head, you know, and and and so I but my dad, we do have a few per Simmons and and and wooden golf clubs back at the house. And I have played with a few, and I am still in complete awe over the golf clubs that they used back in the day, if nothing more, because the grips are so i you know, I mean these grips I'm using are you know, nine years old. So for me, they're just basically made out of criscoe.

But um, just the way of they've been able to use their hands back in those days with those unbelievable golf clubs is it's pretty badass. Jeff. What was the experience like for you today with a wooden club? Oh, it's always fun. It was fun. I mean it goes

sidewise when you miss it, which is a problem. Um, you gotta take it up a lot lower to like that head is small, You've got to tee it up lower, and you have to almost have a negative angle of attack, like it's it's the way that we all used to play, you know, we never no one ever swung up on the driver back in the day with those you know, those those small metal heads. Yeah, that's true. It's definitely different, but you adjust. It's good fun like it is great fun.

I mean, I would advise anybody who really loves golf to like fun. I don't anybody else something and just do it once a month or something. It's great on it's just a different It's like drawing a manual transmission car. Right, It's just you're just a bit more involved or something. It's just something awe about it with a bull's eye, you know. Every now and then, it's just good. It's fun. That's great. I love it. Well, So Christina, you now

have to leave the conversation. It's like high school. You leave the room and then we're gonna talk about you. So okay. Well, um, if I can say thank you guys and these podcasts, it's not I'm not picking on you. This is a tradition. Thank you very much for having had me on. It was taking out with you guys, and I will I'll see y'all later, I guess I was glad to get her in your past. Well that was fun. She's just unique, man, I've always loved Christina.

How did that come about that you wrote a book with her? It goes back to she was in in two thousand and two and three. I was in the offices in sports I'll start working as an editor, as you'll recall, Michael, and that was when Christina kind of burst onto the scene and I was just so fascinated by her, but never and her interviews were a riot, and I never really got a chance to be around her.

So when I went back on the beat and know fore I said I wanted to write about Christina Kim, it was like top of my list, and we just really hit it off. You know. She grew up about sixty miles from where I did here in northern California, and she was very much a California kid, and her dad was crazy and they were still traveling in this big, huge beating up van and every She was just so unique, even back then, the crazy outfits and um. So then

we just always stayed in touch. And you know, fast forward almost ten years and she had had a very eclectic career and I was looking for a kind of a book project, but something that was gonna be somewhat contained, you know, just and so I we just it's basically a die of her season. It's in her voice. I was just a ghostwriter. But we had a lot of meals and we spend a lot of time on the phone, and it was a great pleasure. And obviously Christie is

not afraid to tell it like it is. So it's a very honest book about her own struggles about life on tour, about um, you know, all the clicks in the LPGA and everything in between. So so we've we've always been you know, friends, and we've always been closed. No, so I'll have to read it. Yeah, well I'll bring you one, Jeff, when I come down to the Sandfeld Classic. So alright, there we go back a twoitcase full of books.

All right, we better we better let Jeff go. He's not only did drink like two glasses of red wine during this podcast because a little scale, little tournament golf to play tomorrow, So all right, we'll be ready to get the woods out. Yeah exactly. You guys have a lot of balls for that. No, we're using button balls. Um, I don't think the old ones. I've got some blatas, some old like three two hundreds and stuff, and they just don't. I think they must have had a use

by date or something. Plats don't think. I mean, does anybody have like because I definitely don't go how they used to go. I mean I went, great, No, we're near like mudern bowls. But I mean I mean Jack and Greg and wat to Tom and said, you know, and I used to hit a miles, right, I mean I used to grow when I had niled one. Um. Yeah. Different, but yeah, modern bowls, that's quite fun. It's different. Well

that's like, yeah, I'm sure there is some decompass. And I saw this this funny thing on social media where it was like this highbrow salt that was said, mind from from the you know, the Great Salt Flats of Ethiopia or whatever, two fifty million years ago it was created. It's like sell by July because it's it's a plastic packaging, so you know, I think it's I think you're onto something there, Jeff. But well, well then well done by you forgetting Christina to uh to join us. That was terrific.

And uh, I never really focused on the length of her career. But you know, for twenty years of keeping your card and I'm gonna guess making more money than she spent for twenty straight years, as Jeff would a test not easy to do and then you and then you throw in the yips and mental struggles and just life on the road and it's hard. And I give

for a tremendous amount of credit for doing what she's done. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, twenty year is a long time, A long time, still full of life, you know, and uh yeah, she's she brings the energy to everything. I mean, you know, I've never seen her not be that bubbly and so should be a future Solheim Cup captain, that's a great question. And she's had a nice career. The politics of those seeings,

Jeff knows better than anybody else. You know, he's wearing the international hat right now, so for the from the President's Cup, So she would be in the running. I mean I think she would. She would be galvanizing and I think she'd be great fun. And you know it is it's a performative aspect to being the captain. You know, there's a lot of media. You've got to get people excited and she'd be incredible at that, so I would support it, but who knows how these decisions get made. Yeah,

thanks for bringing it on. Yeah, you got it all right? Well, this was another need of fourth. We will be doing these every week for perpetuity if we can we can. Jeff's like, goll, get you out of here. Where's the weak button? Jeff? You are you? Are you playing with Fred? Tomorrow? With Fred? Yeah? Are you? And he? Partners May and Fred a Potner's against Sander and Dane Wilson. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just in case anyone listening is not clear, this is jeff'son in Oceanside for the Wishbone Brawl, annual um charity fundraiser for for junior golf. And you get these these great players playing with per simmon On at Goat Hill, which is only less than five thousand yards but quite a fun little test. No Gallery Ropes is one of the really cool events and in all of golf, and so we'll be cheering for for Jeff and Fred for sure. We're gonna wrap up this podcast for Jeff Vogilvie, Michael Bamberger,

I'm aland Chef Nick. This was need a fourth and we'll do it again soon. Mm hmmm mm hm. Oh my god, it's a dangerous group here