You know, for the for years, the industry has been trying to figure out what's wrong with the game of golf. You know, is it too hard, it takes too much time? And what was really wrong with it is people had jobs. Now that people are working from home, yeah, you can get a lot done, uh until twelve o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock, but then they're racing to the golf course. And there's a lot more optimism, uh in the golf world, in the golf industry. It's great to see, you know,
the amount of participation. Um My, my son has started playing golf during this because this travel sports have been been canceled and so, you know, there's just a lot of different reasons people have come into the game. Four months ago, we was you know, I felt like gloom and doom. And today, you know, you're telling yourself, how can it be this good? That was just hopeful, I guess, you know, uh, and I feel like it is. You know, it is good. So it's coming out of this bad
spot because it's good. I mean, it's a it's a good thing. The golf course has been pretty extraordinarily busy. There's a there's a big local membership here and people who come down here on holiday for the summer and they're having a field day because in normal times, you know, it's not as easy for them to get out because there's so many tourists. Now it's like they're playing every single day because an old said, Maddie, you make hay when the sunshines, and that's what all the local golfers
are doing. They're they're they're playing a lot of the Gulf. Put another log five, nobody here is getting time. Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Chinella. Thank you to Joe Horowitz, who wrote and recently recorded that song for this podcast. The story we tell in season on episode fift. Good to be back and I hope you and your families are staying safe out there. Some of you know.
We started this podcast in April, not long after the country went into quarantine, and on April eight we dropped episode two, a round table with industry leaders who provided perspective on the state of the game in the midst of a global pandemic. If you go back and listen to it, it's somber. It's as if the group was in shock, and fair to say they were all scared for their business and had concerns for the future of
the game. Here's Josh Lesnik back in April as president of Kemper Sports, which manages over courses in States, and that includes everything from nine whole municipals to stream Song, Sand Valley and abandoned dunes. How many months can a small business go with basically zero revenue? You know, you're talking at daily fee golf courses that are closed. You have zero or revenue. You know, can you afford to keep the superintendent and afford to keep some staff to
keep the golf courses alive. Tom Pashiley, president of Pinehurst in North Carolina, had some membership play in mid April and rigs of barstool, of course, but as he said back then, the cradle of American golf was being rocked by the pandemic. We've gone from undred employees down to two hundred employees. A lot of those are on the golf maintenance staff just to keep the nine courses mode. Certainly, it's a it's a reduced maintenance practice then you would
normally have. But we're trying to keep the courses in good enough condition so that when we are able to reopen to the outside world that that everybody will have a great experience. Lou Thompson, owner of for Students and subject of episode twelve on this podcast, was flying blind into what's already a short season in ross Common, Michigan. You know, you've got a hundred and fifty employees, You've got a man in two golf courses, you're not gonna
get to open. It's a pretty grimsome thought that goes through your mind that you're gonna have to to take care of them forces and take care of your employees. You can. I couldn't go and just say, hey, guys, you're done. I still have to have people to take care of the plights and the courses and keep my place up. So yeah, it was a pretty grin deal. Uh, scary as hell. Do be honest with you whenever you're
setting up thinking about it. Meanwhile, John Ashworth, who has least and led Go to Hill Park for six years, a four thousand, four hundred yard thirty dollar green feet in Oceanside, California, did his best to see through the smoke and seemingly set the stage for the situation. The game is in now. I think people are gonna have a lot better attitude and just a different perspective on
having the freedom to actually play golf. You know, I think that's gonna be uh, it's gonna be a liberating experience once people can come out back out to the golf course. And then there was Marty Carr, founder and CEO of car Golf Travel, an international travel business based in Dublin which customizes golf trips at a wide variety of budgets, but also manages several clubs throughout Ireland. Hopefully,
hopefully at all it all it was back. I think I think this year is probably this this this season is probably going to be a very tough strugger for everybody. But I think, you know, I think things move on pretty quickly. I think it's very hard in the eye of the store to see the end of it, but I think things would pick up, and probably golf would pick up much much quicker than meny other industries. That's one thing they all said, if they could get open,
they had a chance. They knew that as long as they could get a set of sensible regulations, the game could ride a wave of opportunity all the way to the beach, and by June or shortly thereafter they were all opened and it's as if golf is our only option for a safe out or activity. Mike Stertura of Golf Digest recently tweeted that Golf Data Tech reports rounds
played in July were up over last year. US golf equipment sales reached the all time greatest single month and retail sales since the company started tracking data in the year Tiger one his first Masters balls are up. Putters, wedges seventy, woods are up sixty and irons. As to Chura said, if it's not nailed down, it's selling. And so I got the buddies trip of round tables back together again to check in on their business, same order throughout.
So we start again with Josh Lesnik of Kemper Sports, who has been pleasantly surprised by this endless summer of golf. I'll be honest, I'm not even sure I had that hope. Really, I don't think I could even think about it. Um from that standpoint sitting there in April, you know, with of our golf course is closed and no idea how long all these restrictions state by state we're gonna last.
And umb I really had no I couldn't even hope for the turnaround that's really happened in terms of rounds of golf, interest in the game of golf, golf becoming known as h a safe, healthy way to get outside um during the pandemic. Tom Pastilely of Pine says they're back to one thousand employees, which is up eight hundred,
still down five from pre quarantine. I look back at how somber we were in April and and trust me, there's still plenty of things that have had to happen that we're not We're sad about employee that are no longer here, but seeing people return to pinehurs, seeing them enjoying being outside, seeing them play golf, seeing seeing you know, hundreds of people in the cradle every afternoon has given
us more reason to be excited. So so it's it's still difficult because our our business is also dependent on corporate business. We've got a lot of meeting space and so that side of the business has really languished, and we don't know when gatherings of large groups inside is going to be able to happen again. But in the meantime, golfers that the path has kind of been cleared for for the golfers to come here, and uh and and we just enjoy seeing them enjoying pine Hurst. The logo
of Forest Dudes is a deer. And going back to April, Lou Thompson was staring into the headlights of an oncoming car. You know, Jim was best June we've ever had in history. Uh. I don't remember exactly the numbers, but I think we were probably up in June, and then the first of July we were able to open up the lodge and everything and restaurants are limited seating, and we were probably
up dirty percent in July over last year. Uh. Come August, you know, we're projecting that we're gonna be up tween forty and forty five percent in August this year over last year, which is realistically we can't do some more. I mean, you know what it's and whats of is so strange about this is every day is a record day for us. You know, we do three hundred and dirty last Friday, Well, just coming Friday, we've got three
forty on the books. You know, next Saturday, we've got three sixty books, uh, known for two courses and that's all we didn't get on. As for John Ashworth at goat Hill Park, he did what he does best. He took a shitty situation, rallied the community and together they made several significant course enhancements. You know, we're always trying to improve it because it needs a lot of improvement.
And uh and we were able to. Yeah, we had some volunteers, you know, we had we didn't have volunteers days, but we we let it known in our little crew of guys. You know, if you want to come get dirty, we've got plenty of jobs to do. Yeah, and we had a lot of takers. Meanwhile, Marty Carr of car Golf in Ireland reports the Irish have picked up right where they left off, which is loving and playing the
game of golf. I think, you know, as John Ashford identified that, you know, hopefully golf would be part of the solution. And clearly there has been an incredible increase in interest in in in Gulf given the fact that there was a very limited amount of other activities. Golfs first back, we've seen an explosion in the new members joining clubs because we opened up here post COVID with the requirement that you had to be a member, and then slowly but surely with member guests and now everybody
can play. We opened up at reduced capacity. So notwithstanding them, the challenges have increased demand and reduced supply, and golf is very busy here of courses, obviously depending on where they're located. There's still another a lot of courses that haven't seen a huge bounce. I would say that that's probably the telling sign that they don't really have a huge future. But for the most part, the urban golf
courses have seen a huge bounce. In fact, they're probably trading on priority with last year, despite the fact that they were closed for two and a half months. So I know the n g F came out there recently saying that that the rounds are up. I would say we're definitely up fift. But it does very convenued to venue depending on location, which brings us back to less nick onjust how good is it out there right now.
I don't know if you were called. There was a study done by the n GF about all the latent demand. There wasn't golf people who played before they had kids and for one reason another work, kids, everything, they didn't play, but they wanted to get back out there, and even other people that that may be watched on TVV like the idea of being outside walking getting some exercise, but hadn't taken it up. There's a lot of latent event. Well, those people are playing golf now, and it's seen at
the golf courses. It's seeing with our PGA professionals giving lessons. It's seen with the equipment companies, uh selling out of equipment and even golf balls. Um, it's look, we lost twenty million rounds of golf in the spring when the rounds were goes not we kemper sports. We the industry lost something like twenty million rounds. Never thought we could
ever make it up. Um, but we're gonna. We're gonna come awfully both, if not exceed to make up the lost rounds because we have this in season in a lot of the country. Um. Just boom, It's amazing. I asked pastially of pine Hurst. If a buddy's trip rocked up to the Carolina Hotel right now, would they notice a difference from previous trips. Absolutely, they'll they'll notice differently. You know, everybody will have their masks on. As long as masks are required and and so that you'll see
and they'll be required to wear masks. Is they're kind of indoors throughout North Carolina. We've got a date coming up September eleven is when the governor revisits our status with with all these things. So if if they come after then hopefully things are loosened up a little bit. But you know, we're taking it all very seriously. And so they're gonna see signage telling them, you know, it's a space out. They're gonna see our breakfast buffet that
is world famous is now being served by employees. You're not able to decide, you know, what portions you want. You can ask for it, we'll provide it for you. But yeah, there'll be subtle things, um that they'll notice. And I think what we're finding is people appreciate it. People want to feel safe. They're anxious, and when you get to the place and you see that folks are taking it seriously, it puts you a little more at ease.
At Forest Dunes, which is quite literally in the middle of Michigan, which also makes it very remote, lou Thompson says that's exactly what's working in his favor. I was up there a couple weeks ago with a friend of mine and he said, you know how many people here to day? And I saw, how about three hundred? And that just blows me away because I feel a lot more the only ones up here. You know, we're spread
out over twenty acres. You know, tea times are back to you know, they're not just a on top of everybody. And he said, it's just amazing to me that the story hundred fifty people here to die and I feel like we're the only ones out here. You know, It's it's pretty good. You know. I feel very comfortable being up there playing golf. Uh And I feel very comptful dinning outside, even with people around, because you know, I just don't feel like we have me exposer that's obviously
particiarly have insight. John Ashworth is all about seizing this momentum and running with it. I think we've got this big opportunity. You know, if there is a renaissance in golf to capture a new spirit for the game, if
you will, you know, that is more of this. Goat Hill Park Winter Park nine recreational golf community golf using the golf course as the center for a community, you know, versus back in the nineties, which I happen to live through as well, when it was always like it's build a big country club, that's you know, gonna hosted tour event, and you know, I'm going to have the biggest, hardest golf course. All these billionaire you know, Dot Com guys
or whatever that you know, did all that stuff. Marty Carr says that in Ireland, the courses usually sought after by the big game hunters of golf are busy, but it's because they've drastically reduced their green fees for locals. The tourism courses remain challenged because they can't replace the the tens of thousands of overseas tourists who will come
in here and pay the premium rates. So many of them have put together a rate for members of Irish golf clubs and they have seen an increase in play, but the yield will be significantly down. The municipal courses and the and the and the courses that offer access around Dublin would have seen a significant increase in play at a rate, and and then some more of the rural courses probably haven't seen that much so, to be honest, you depending on what segments you're talking about it, there
has been differing impacts. I asked les Nick if he thought that because of the evolution of the industry over the course of the last two decades, is golf better positioned to keep more of this tsunami of interest beyond the pandemic As rounds were dwindling, and you know, we had this great oversupply of golf courses in the United States.
We just built too many golf courses and demand wasn't keeping up with the supply, and so golf course owners were getting together, like, you know, we need we need to change the industry a little bit. We need to make it more welcoming. And I wasn't getting We were sitting around kind of talking about, you know, what's wrong with the game. How do we make the game more fun, more friendly, more inclusive. And the industry did a great
job of doing that. Um, you know, all the all the things you're talking about, just making it more fun, short courses, music on course. Knowing that we need to treat people when they walk into our pro shop. We just need to treat people better. We need to treat beginners better. We don't want to scare them away from the golf course. We want to bring them in to golf. And the industry really had changed over let's call it the last decade or or a little more, um so,
for that type of demand. Now, let's say, I mean top golf is a perfect example. Top golf. People are learning the swing, they're learning the game, they're getting that feeling of hitting a good golf shot. But unfortunately, still our industry can't in many areas, can't do social functions of larger than a certain number um and you know,
driving ranges can be closed things like that. But those people are now coming to the golf course for that socially distanced, touch free golf experience, and well that stick. You know, I think some of it will. It's not realistic to think that this boom will last forever. I think offices will open up again, people start working, there will be baseball games you can go to, there will be kids sports again, and parents have to go to their kids sporting games. You know. So it's unrealistic to
think that people can continue to play this amount. But the industry is certainly ready to welcome all these people and treat them in the way we need to treat them to bring them back. Meanwhile, Pastilely and pine Hurst continue to benefit from the revolutionary moves they made a few years ago by adding a putting and Part three
course to their front porch. The cradle has been amazing, and thank goodness we have it, because, yeah, all this new participation, what what better of course to learn the game on? Then a short course and then the cradle where there's no intimidation, where it's all about fun and so the you know, last year we thought we were setting records for rounds on the Cradle, and so far this summer we're up and rounds played on the Cradle over a number that we never imagined we can top.
It's it's been so good and and a lot of them are people who are who are staying with us at the resort. A lot of them are people who were just passing through and and they're they're able to get their piece of the pine Hurst experience at the putting course. This will do is super popular right now.
So thank goodness, thank goodness we made the changes we made when we did, because it put us kind of in a in a great position to take advantage of all these new people who have been coming into the game. For sure. Forest Dudes opened their new ten hole Part three course on August one. You know something that I thought was pretty cool, Matt. We had to we had to build a shoe rack at the tea box because when we told some of the guys to start with the rules, you know, have fun if you want to
keep shoes off playing music. Well, after about an hour we had about a hundred pairs of shoes all over the ground and didn't stand that. So the next week we built in shoe racks too, so people's got a replace to put their shoes. So exactly what I wanted. You tell people if you want to go there. But man, everybody hits the deck and the shoes dart climbed. And the best part is it's not unlock. It's a certain nights group. I mean sixties seven year old man's kicking
the shoes off. You know, six year old kids are kicking their shoes off. You know. It was just it was just pretty cool, just set there to pavilion and experience that. I asked Ashworth and then Car if some of the new rules and regulations have a place in the game. Post COVID. Everyone's kind of getting used to the pen in the hole with the with the foamy thing. Although I will say, you gotta get that phone down a little bit. Man. I feel like I got kind
of screwed it. Grizzy had a bumplipout. I know it, but no, I mean at the goat we do that. It's just, you know, I never thought i'd be into it, and I didn't know if I am into it, but it's sure, Yeah, I think that's speed up play, you know, for sure, U Rakes and the bunkers. You know, I don't know if if you if you don't have rakes, and you probably have to like everybody's bumping it, which I don't really like, to be honest with you. So I don't know if I like that one. Um more walking, right,
I think a little bit more walking, you know. Um Less hugging, which I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. But um, I miss a good hug. I missed I missed the hug at the end of the round, the high five bro hug. Yeah, yeah, I miss that. I I kind of like the idea of the flag leaving the pin and the whole people are maybe we used to be optional before and it was in, it was out. I'd like to see things like the bunker's facing in the bunker and then smooth it over
your foot's sartainly speeding up the game. And rounds are much faster over here now than they were at pre COVID, no question, which is saying something because rounds in Ireland were already pretty fast. On the subject of speed, here's Lesnik again on planning a trip in full alert. If you want to go to Streams Song, Abandoned Dunes, Sand Valley, if you want to go next year, I mean book right now for next year. You can't. You can't get in this year. It's it's it's near impossible, as you
found out. And I've tried to, you know, make tea times for people, and we're talking next June at Bannon. Dudes, it's hard to get times for people if the group's big enough, so you know, you really it looks like interest in the game of golf and interest in destinations is continuing to grow. This is not a temporary thing, because the reservations are get very good for next season
as well. Pastially is cautiously optimistic, but also can't ignore what he sees as we get into what will surely be an epic September for not only Pineers, but for golf all across the country. We don't know. Is it that the travel patterns have changed because people couldn't do their spring trips, they've been doing summer trips. How much of it is sustainable? You know, we don't know, um, but but for right now it is. It is very encouraging.
And like I said that the long faces in uh and in our tone that I really listened to from our April thing is just so much different right now, so much more optimism. Again, harsh realities have happened, and there have been some some fundamental changes in the way we do certain things. But boy, oh boy, um, as I as I look out over Pineer's number two and Pineers number four right now, there's a tremendous amount of activity that makes me, makes me happy for the future.
Back at Forest Dunes, I asked Thompson the new Part three course has had an impact on his demographic. Rob sent an email the other day the superintendent and said it was so cool every day to look up there and see moms and Dad's with two and three kids sharing clubs and the kids dad's over there, shown the kid how to put mom's over there, got someone else
showing him how to swing a club. You know, it's that's pretty exciting because you know, we're introducing people to the game of golf that's never been involved in the game of golf. And uh, you know, I'm at the COVID deal for the golf course industry. You know, somebody's
suffered from it, but the golf course industry. I think it's going to a cross work from this because we're gonna get people back to in the golf scene that has either never was in it, or was in it and got out of it, and now they're realizing, right, this is a good safe white act saws and enjoy myself outside and have very little expulsiures, Amen Lou. Meanwhile, Ashworth is co founder of Link Soul, the lifestyle and apparel company that hosts Link Soul to Man's, which look
and feel a lot like one big Buddy strip. We just had our Link Soul Too Man Grizzly Ranch and you know, we were back and it's the first one we've had all year, and we were back and forth should we have it, should we not have it? Cheese were doing the right thing and talked to the course a bunch of course they were open and and we we finally said, yeah, let's do it. Let's you know, let's let's do it. Let's do all these safeguards in place. And you know, we gave out masks in the whole deal.
But I cannot tell you how many guys came up to me and said, I am so glad you guys had this thing. I needed it so bad, like, you know, seriously. It was like okay, okay, you know it was cool though a lot of guys really really needed They love they love that. I mean, we had camaraderie, but it was you know, we were a part. Everybody was cool.
You know, I really did the right thing. I missed this one at Grizzly Ranch, but as an Avid Link Soul ambassador, there will be a lot more Links Soul two Man's in my future and I'll definitely be back to Ireland. But had to miss my annual trip to Waterville this year for car Golf's Father Son Tournament again. As Marty Carr explains, local golf and drive travel are up, but it's the mega trips out of the country that
are basically non existent for now. Travel business basically is down last year, so clearly nobody can travel with the fourteen day quarantine right now. I guess it's very hard for people to to understand the rules because there's so many different rules. Americans are not permitted to travel to Europe as far as I know, but Ireland is not part of that. And if you come to Ireland you need to quarantine for fourteen days. And quarantine basically means you need to stay. You need to tell a start
when you land where you're going to be staying. You can change where you're staying, but you need to stay indoors. You can't go out to restaurants, you can't take golf, but you could. You can go out for a psychle, you can go head for a walk if you need to. You can go to the shops. So it's not as if you've gotta In some countries you've gotta lock yourself in a room and they bring three meals a day,
which I understand is happening in New Zealand. Terra eating is in New Zealand, which is where they have a tom Doake of course and want to build another plus a core and crunchhap but that thirty six whole edition is on hold for now. And that's just about it for this Firepin. Special appreciation for the guests of this podcast for their time, transparency, and all that they do for the game of golf. More to come as we continue to prep and record season two, which will officially
start dropping soon. But in keeping with tradition, we're ending this roundtable just like we did the first one, with a joke from Marty Carr. Anyway I can I can't use the effort, can abreviate? Oh yeah, of course you can. Ashworths used in multiple times in the podcast. Yeah, so this this so this guy and he's given the fact
that we're in Carry. Is this guy in a Carry radio station and he runs the program every Saturday morning, and he says, we're going to have a competition today and we want you to call him with unusual words. So we want you to call up, give us your name, tell us where you're from, and give us your word and the winner gets two nights in the buddler Arms
Hotel and a random water girlfriends. Anyway that all the Carry people are calling in there a huge queue of people on the line, and the DJ goes, okay, call a number one. He goes, hell, oh, yes, my name is Mattie and I'm calling from kin Sale. This is how your matter? He says, what's your word? He goes gan and he goes grant. He said that's an unusual where He says, can you spell it? He says, I can g w an grand. He said, I've never heard that word. Now, that's a fantastic word. That could be
a winner. He says, could you put it in context? He says, I can't gonna fund yourself. So anyway, the the DJ gets very upset, both sorts of complaints coming, and he goes to an ad break. He comes back on and he apologizes profusely for the for the for the use of profanity on the airways, and then he said, we've good time for one more caller and then we have to call it quits. So he goes, okay, caller, he's about your name because my name is Samous. He said,
how are you Shamus Heason? Where are you calling from? Shamus? He's don't call h from True County County. It's a good man, Jamus. What's your word. He goes, sh me. He says me. He says, I've never heard that word. Sis. Can you Spellali says I can M e h B, And he goes, she's could you put it in context? He said, I cantch me again. Go fund yourself. Remember use promo code Maddie G to get off your next
purchase of apparel at link soul dot com. Ongoing appreciation for Alex up Peggy who helps me produce this podcast, Rexcellent who adds the sound and music