Fire Drill 096: In the Dirt

by collective. So big shout out to Link Soul who provides all the clothing for us, and just to quality people to be involved with. And of course Ola Kai shoes. I was telling someone recently that's pretty much all I wear, and even if they stop sponsoring this podcast, I would continue to wear the shoes like they're just insanely comfortable.

I have really bad feet. I don't want to describe them in detail because I might scare off the listeners, but they're the most cumfble shoes I warn't a really long time. So thank you to Ola Kai and of course Dormy Workshop as well, purveyor of beautiful artisanal leather headcovers and stash patches and all kinds of cool stuff. So we appreciate all of you. So let's get to this podcast. Matt Janella is here. We thought it would be fun to kind of catch up on what we're

working on. We've got this in the Dirt series as we're calling it. Hopefully you guys have seen some of the content we blasted out on Golden Gate Park and Pasa Tiempo, and we have some great intel on Shorties, the new Part three band and that we're going to be putting out shortly as it were. And so just to some fun, exciting projects that we'll get into in a little more detail here. And so, without further ado, Matt, what is going on in your world?

Palm Springs. So great to reconnect with Laird. If you've watched some of what we did from the grind, you know his story in which he was he was eight down with nineteen to play in the British Amperagere Championship at nare A couple of years ago and came back to beat Monti Scousel in a three hole playoff, eight down, nineteen to play, four down with four to play and

wins on the third playoff. Full so really cool that he was here and he was teaching bandon how to play soccer in our backyard and showing him some stuff on the golf course. So it was really sweet. And then Sunday morning I darted up to San Jose, went out and met Justin Mandon, the superintendent there, and got eyes on ultimately what's really a finished product At Pas Tiempo. They will reopen to the public on December fourth. The

Front nine the back nine has been open. You can play it, you know, once or twice if you so desire. But the front nine will reopen to the public December fourth. That'll stay open all the way through April, so you can play all eighteen holes with the new front nine greens and the back nine as it is until Western Intercollegiate,

which is at the week after the Masters. So and then they'll shut the back nine down and do the same exact process that they did on the front line, which is, you know, really go down and find the original you know, the greens and the intent of doctor Alistair McKenzie and Marion Hollins as it relates to those putting surfaces and Jim Orbina just amandon erth Sculptures. Uh, you know, a big sort of team has been a part of that project. And I'm I honestly had a

beautiful morning out there. We had our Roger Our drone shooter, a Drone Ninja out there and recreating some of the same angles he's been doing throughout this entire process, and the before and afters are going to be spectacular. The putting surfaces at Pas Tiempo on that front nine went from one maybe two pinnable locations to now in some cases like five, three, five eight, the part three's are going to have you know, seven to eleven different pinnable locations.

They you know, they took the green side bunkers down to their riginal intent. They've got you know, as as we've documented, they've got photos and you know information. They went and were able to read the layers of the sand once they really cut into it, to see that original that original green and and the sort of the breaks on that green to try to use as as a base for the recreation and restoration.

general manager, that board of directors, that membership. I was there that day in April when they kind of shut everything down. They had a barbecue, They had two hundred

plus members out there. The amount of information and education that went in to getting that project, excuse me, that project lit and getting that to go and where it is now as as we here are here in November, this is going to go down in history as one of the smartest and most effective, you know, restorations of very meaningful putting services that you know that are accessible you know, to the public. It is a members club,

it is semi private. It's a very different business model than we see in most American clubs in terms of the prestige of what we're talking about. Usually these these of course like this would be behind gates and we would you'd only get access to it if you were willing to pay one hundred thousand up front or two hundred or five hundred whatever that exactly.

many people, like these great private courses. To me, it's a travesty that three hundred guys get to play them and a select few other guests, Like I mean, like Cyper's point to me is like Yosemite, you know, it should be a national park and let the members have it maybe five days a week that everyone else coming and play. And the other two like this is this is a part of the California coastline. No one owns California,

no one owns the Pacific Ocean. Like these things bother me and you and I have always loved Pasa Tempa. We've talked about it glowingly. I think it's it's still an underrated course. It's not always on people's radar screen, but it is open to the public. They set aside chunks of times every single day. And it's because this public private model it's not that expensive relatively speaking. I was like, what, it's a third of TPC sawgrass, you know, it's half of pebble, you know what, it's it's half

of you. Some of these these these courses out in the desert and it I mean Tita Green, it's phenomenal, and the undulations and the land and some of the some of the carries, and then these these Alter Mackenzie greens are just wild and it's crazy and awesome. And the good doctor, you know a lot of people know, lived and basically died at Pasa Tiempo. That's how much he loved it and cared for it. And so it should be the top of every golfer's list as a pilgrimage.

And just wait, you know, maybe at this point you could wait another year when it's done done and it is going to be so spectacular because they didn't really touch anything Tita Green, although they they're tweaking some bunkers along the way and the fairways. But the greens had gotten so extreme from the sand build up, and I don't think average golfers recognized, like every time you splashed out of a bunker that like starts to raise the contours or the greens times one hundred and fifty players

a day, times you know, almost one hundred years. And so the greens had just evolved to the point they were too extreme. So now you're gonna be able to see the contours as they were designed, and it's going to be tremendous.

of the grass itself. So you know, if you talk to some people involved and you find out that, you know, they were really you know, Justin was very good at what he does, obviously, and he would get the greens very good, but there was only a limited number of seasons in which he was going to be able to do what he was doing without you know, without having to try to, you know, sort of push forward with

the project like this. And and they they what they've ultimately decided to do is go back to some of that that original intent and and and reveal some of the original pinlotions but also some of the views and looks you see of some of the bunkers behind or to the right or left of some of these holes that you could see in images but had been disappeared over these decades of time. And in Jim Orbina, you have a guy who spent a lot of time out

of pass Tempo. He knows Mackenzie. He worked with Doak on the sort of the restoration in which they you know, go back fifteen years ago. They didn't touch any of the of the greens at that time. And so you got this real thoughtful, well informed architect and you have Justin Mannon, and then you have earth Sculptures, and you have this membership. It is what we've documented and you know, the dirt that we were able to get into, so to speak, and see this process and the greens that

we've played so many times that have befuddled us. And it's not to say they've made they've made it. You know, people were like, oh, they're going to make it too easy. Those greens are what make Pasa Tempo. First of all, there's no way Passe Tempo is a bunch of half pars, and most of them are on the high side half you know, they're they're like they're you know, number one is a part four and a half. Number two is like a part four and a half. Number three is

a par three and a half. You know, like you just keep going and you're like, oh, this is just a bunch of you know, half pars that are that are working. Were you against it? But it's also part of why it makes it so fun? But what's this? What what they've done now is going to afford justin to run those greens like he wants to at a ten eleven or even you know, upwards of eleven and a half twelve Western Intercollegiate or something like that, and

have pin locations that are still fair. Because when those when those greens were running eleven and you know, when when the cameras were on in the Western Intercollegiate was being played and you saw the ball never stop rolling, it was like, oh, this is unfair, you've lost it. This is no right, makes any sense. But that's not going to be the case anymore. There's real, like legitimate shelfing and pin locations. They're going to be tough to get to, but they're gonna be fair.

like a three footer for my three putt. It was Yeah, you could just get in some spots where you were absolutely dead, So it's gonna be exciting.

are going to take to Pasa Tempo. I don't think there's anybody who's gonna walk away and go what's been done here is is phenomenal. And there's a great big congratulations to everybody involved. And they can't wait to get started on the back nine. They very smartly did the nine first, although there are these iconic holes in these greens and those three part threes that we've already mentioned, plus number nine two really needed a lot of work.

I mean, the back nine you've got you know, ten, eleven, twelve, I mean sixteen, eighteen, those are those those should be hanging in the louver like that's that's legitimate artwork out there. So for them to get a real grasp on the process, get a system in place, learn what they needed to learn on the front nine, and now take all that knowledge into the back nine. This is you know, come this time next year, they're going to reopen all eighteen with all new greens and it's gonna it's going to be.

It's going to be something to behold in, something to see and feel and play.

short course play so long? Well, you know it's because of the undulation, That's how That's how you got to It's a hike to get around there.

it's accelerating. And one project that we're both you and I are super excited about as we put a few things out on social so you can detect the the energy and the whole golfing world is Golden Gate Park Golf Course. This little part three, a lot of people never knew it was there. It's the very western edge of Golden Gate Park. I mean, you're about one good drive.

It's probably three hundred yards to the beach, and it's right in the shadow of those famous like Sutral windmills that are out there, and just an incredible spot in

one of America's greatest you know, urban oases. And this you know, you and I have both been there in the last few weeks and to see you know, we've been we've been in the dirt since you know, I guess eight months ago, and to see it come into life now the grass has grown in the sand, scrapes are are visible, the greens, you can see the you can see undulations. After your last visit to the completed Golden Gate Park Part three, what you're feeling about that place again.

You know, one's bent and bent bent grass greens, and the other at at Golden Gate Park is using fescue and fescue you know, needs a little you know, a little more time to sort of get in and get get get some strength. But I think long term it was the right move for the way they want that golf course to play firm and fast and have the ball move around after it's on the ground. Jay BLASEI obviously a big part of the Chambers Bay project with

Robert Trent Jones Junior. And you know, this was a cool project all along, you know, and we talk about it in our docuseries. That's going to be you know,

starting to drop. Content started to drop next week. But you know, in the legacy of Sandy Tatum and what happened at Harding Park, and Dan Burke knowing Sandy Tatum and working and being a big part of the San Francisco golf community and what it meant to him now the CEO of San Francisco first t for him to get some private donors two point seven million to get Jay Blasey again lives locally, and Josh Lewis, who's got a history going back to agronomy at Bandon Dunes and

other prominent projects. This team, you know, walking around with them and some of the locals and what's about to you know, sort of be presented to the public affordable, accessible, everything that you'd want from from a nine hole golf course in Golden Gate Park and a hub of a first tea program that needs a place to play. It's just it's just going to get rave reviews. It's going to be a national curiosity. It's going to be a blueprint for what's possible. You know, We've said it many times.

We're going to continue to say it, you know, for me, you know, and you know John Ashworth at goat Hill Park and and uh and Dan Burke at at Golden Gate Park, and and you know what, obviously, you know, Mike Kaiser at bandon Dune's and sort of Tom Pashley at at Pineer's putting in the cradle off the front

porch of Piner's resort. And uh, you know Steve Leary, the mayor of Winter Park who decided to do what he did, you know, Western Golf Association and Camper Sports and some of the people who are behind the Canal Shores renovation and restoration of that property which will be home to uh to uh you know, you know Junior Caddy program and these to me Alan, you know are leaders in golf.

As we say, I just I just find it, you know, I just find to justin Thomas's point, actually, it's way more interesting and exciting to stay focused on some of these types of stories that you know, this Golden Gate Park is going to be a rock and a pond, and the ripple effect that it's going to have on this community as it relates to golf and kids and accessibility and affordability is is going to go on again now for decades and it's really cool.

And then all these first tea kids from very diverse backgrounds, you know, that's been it's been their portal into the game. And then you have you know, retirees who they're in the fifties and sixties and that's just where they like to play because that's the community they I mean, the fact that they get this beautiful new course at no cost to them, the city gets, you know, an asset massively upgraded at no cost to them. It's going to generate more revenue. It's just a win win win for everyone.

And you know, I think people in golf have been waiting for this leadership to come from the top down, like let the USGA and the PG of America guide us through how the game should evolve, but it's really coming from the ground up. Like all these people you name check, like they they are in the dirt. They're the ones who are actually doing the work with the golf courses, with the customers, and it's just a more

effective model. It's great if if the usg will come in and sprinkle ten million dollars on the Maggie Hathaway and you know this, this this little part three in central Los Angeles, Like that's helpful, and no one's gonna that's gonna be a cool project that everyone's gonna enjoy, but it's not really replicable. But when you what is is if every community bands together and says, you know what,

we have potential here. We've got this old tired golf course that needs to be redone, and you know that you can do You can do it like Ashworth, like he's just out there in the tractory day more or less doing it himself with the community volunteers. You can fundraise privately like they did it go olden Gate Park. But there's a way for every community to get itself an amazing public asset. And it's not going to come

from the Fred Ridley's of the world. The seth wahs, you know, they're they're kind of in their ivory towers. I mean, it's really incumbent on each golf community. Like it it takes some leadership and some passion, and of course takes some money, but it's this movement that I feel. It feels like it's happening around the US where people aren't waiting anymore for the USGA to come in and

solve their problem, like they're they're taking the initiative. And we're lucky now as golfers to have all these cool courses to look forward to. And I can't wait to go up and play Golden Gate. It's gonna be a regular thing for me. And you know, the like Peter Hay it's on seven acres and the Cradles on ten acres, and Golden Gate is on like twenty two acres. I mean,

it really feels expansive. And there's some there's some long holes, you know, and you know, if you're a good golfer, you don't need to any woods, but you might watch a five iron. You know, there's a couple there's like a couple of hundred and eighty yard holes and you know, it's like real golf. It's not just a bunch of little half wedges and super interesting greens. You have ocean views up there at the top of the property. It's

really all you want. And I'm as excited about Golden Gate in its own way as I am out Passe Tempo. There are different experiences, but both are going to be just, you know, fun factories. And it's just cool that the local golf communities have made these things happen on their own but all of us get to enjoy them.

Course board meeting. I've served on honor to be part of that board for the last three years, and I tweeted out recently that they in twenty nineteen they had one thousand and forty five courses signed up to participate in a program in which, you know, all the course has to say is, yeah, we're a part of this program Youth on Course, and kids play for five dollars or less, and then Youth on Course subsidizes the difference between whatever they charge those kids and whatever they would

normally charge a junior green fee, so youth on courses subsidizing kids to make sure that they have access to these courses, you know, for five dollars or less. They've doubled the number of courses in the last four years and went from one thousand, forty five to two thousand and thirty five. They've gone from seventy thousand members of kids in twenty nineteen to one hundred and eighty nine

thousand members in twenty twenty three. They went from subsidizing two hundred and four thousand rounds in twenty nineteen this year they are up to seven hundred thousand subsidized rounds of golf for kids playing for five dollars or less.

So you talk about like leadership, you know, and the USGA has sniffed around on trying to be a part of youthon course, but they wanted to kind of own that concept and idea other big you know, uh sort of you know, brands within the game have talked about, like, you know, partnering with but but in the end it's just been youthon courses.

Western Golf Association is helping kids not not only become like golfers or caddies, but become great members of society.

And you know, I just think this is I get inspire, like you know, every time to your point, going to Golden Gate Park and walking around and listening and watching and learning, I just I it makes me feel and sharpens my focus on some of the good stuff happening in this game around some of these courses, these municipalities, the successibility and affordability and sustainability to your point being ten acres, seven acres. I think of Davis Saysna who

started threes and other Part three coers. I mean, and we're going to get to the news out of Abandon Dunes at Shorties, which is another Part three course. But this to me is it makes so much sense. And ass I said, and I think the previous podcast after the Colorado Basin water Summit, in which one person asked the crowd, if we were to start building golf now, what would it look like if we erase the slate

and started over, what would it look like? It would look like Golden Gate Park and Goat Hill Park and Canal Shore. It would be small, fun, accessible, sustainable, affordable, playable, you know, on on smaller piece pieces of land. And that's that's what I think deserves a lot of our time, energy, attention and storytelling.

shorties will take some pressure off the preserve. It's going to be another part of the recourse, and I think maybe they want to make it visually a little different than Preserve but whatever it's going to be, we know

it's gonna be fun. It's an awesome piece of ground there, kind of those who have been to Bandon Trails when you're playing the first hole and you're in those dunes and the second really, I mean it's really kind of just over the between those dunes and the coast, right that's where Shorties is going to be pretty wild and wooly. And what do you know about what's happening up as Shorty's Matt.

point I don't have them confirmed. But Dave Axelin, Rod Whitman, and Keith Cutton, you know, and they were all part of the Cabot team, so Cabot Links and Rod and Dave worked on Cabot Cliffs. They are longtime Core and Crenshaw associates. Dave Axlan worked on Bandon Trails, he didn't work on Bandon Preserves, So as I told him, I'm a big fan of your work for what you did at Trails. Rod had never actually worked on Bandon Dunes. He'd been out there, but he had never had been

a part of any of the Corn Crenshaw products. But can you imagine these guys having just sort of formed this new partnership fairly recently, not unlike what Keith reb and Riley Johns have done. They continue to work for Bill and Ben, but they also take projects on the side and work for themselves. Nineteen hole par three course, the shortest being somewhere around fifty sixty yards puddable, the longest being one hundred and fifty to one hundred and

sixty yards. There'll be a lot of variety, not unlike at preserve. You can kind of choose your own tea locations. Wild and wooly would be a good way of describing that land. Dave Axelon said, the land itself and that Dun's land. He called it a nine out of ten. And then the challenge being how do you make a golf course that lives up to that level of land.

You know, He's like, you know, it's actually sometimes you know, the pressure is on when you're A you're abandon B. You're in this portfolio of these great architects and architecture, you know, Mike Kaiser's you know, legacy a big portion of it, and and your has to put in, you know, putting a nineteen whole part three course. So you know, Dave Axent was like, and they're so humble, these guys, you know, shocking guys that work with Corn Crench aw

are super humble. But like to talk to Rod Whitman, who you know Sam Houston you know in college from Canada and Uh used to go out to pizza with Bill cor Bill Corr was a superintendent at the golf course that Sam Houston played at. Rod Whitman would show up with holes in the bottom of his shoes, not enough money to even buy the pizza they were eating, UH, and they would talk about how they both wanted to sort of get into architecture. It's one of the great stories.

I told it in a podcast. They actually tell it in a podcast that we did on the Building a bit Bill and Ben the partnership and the and the and the and the company, and so to talk to Rod and Dave and to listen to their humility and the sort of their their honor and in the opportunity that they had to do what they did at Bandon Uh is just a very sweet and refreshing reality. And I'm very happy again for them for this kind of opportunity that they've had to do this. They there's no

real set, definitive date for the opening of Shorties. They are taking reservations for sort of July on in twenty twenty four. There may or may not be an opportunity to open that sooner. That'll depend on the growing and the weather and all that kind of stuff. So they didn't really get a chance to have preview play this year. I'm not sure how they'll handle preview play at the start of you know, or the late spring into the

summer of next year. But it is, as you say, kind of that west of number two and three of trails. For the last few years you've been off the second tea of Trails, you've been able to see like a little pin flag out there. That was the only indication that that was what was coming. A lot of the people who've been out there say that these are some of the best views of any course on property. So think about that for a segment.

Justin Thomas wants more positive stories. He should just pay attention to the fire pit channels, because what we're all about, it's telling these these feel good tales. Shout out JT. Love that guy. So I think this time that the time has come to release the listeners. We appreciate you guys sticking around and falling on with this little podcast. It's always tough to talk about and we'll keep filling up your your inbox and your your whole. That sounds inappropriate,

but for Matt Janella this is Alan Schipnak. That was another fire drill. Thanks for listening. And this is the end.