When you're in a sport and you know so much, the temptation is there.
Sergio Garcia before he won the Masters, I heard the father in law gave him a big cage rattle like quit acting like the game, like owes you something, go out and earn it, like go win, like stop being such a little basically, And I was like, oh wow, that that might be exactly the pep talk that Sergio needed anyone the Masters and I benefited, you know, I mean that's I felt a little like, I mean, this is really good info.
I got thoughts in my head. Can't get him not to think what I'm thinking about, thoughts in my head, can't get him out not to think, well, I'm thinking about.
Hello, this is Alan Chipnook back for another fire podcast. I am in Denver, Colorado for the US amateur Matt Janella. After a long sojournto Ireland is back in Oceanside at Firepit World headquarters. Welcome home. Man.
To say it's been a rough re entry into reality would be a complete and total understatement. Thirty one hours from Waterville, the Villa Maria little hotel in the middle of town. Bus Shannon JFK mechanical troubles La Uber de San Diego home thirty one hours later, and yeah, yesterday I was borderline coma.
Well, thanks for shaking over the cop Yeah, thanks for shaking off the cob webs here for our listeners. So we thought today would be a little bit of a state of the fire pit. There's a lot going on here. I've been living the amateur life. I was at bel Air Country for the Women's Amateur. I'll be Cherry Hills this week for the US Amateur. And we want to talk a little about the Ireland trip, and we thought we'd relive some of the fallout from our Billy Walters
excerpt last week. We kind of podcasted as it dropped. But it's been a very eventful you know, basically six days since then, so let's get into it. But I will say, you know, and I was writing every day for Firepak Collective dot com from bell Air and it was just so refreshing to be at a at a
high level amateur event. I've been as people probably know, I've been covering this war between the PGA Tour and live golf, and while it's been fascinating, it's also just all about the money, and everyone sueing each other or they were, and all the bitchiness and all the name calling and the mud slinging, and the overwhelming feeling at
bell Air was just sort of joy and gratitude. And these young women were just so delight to be on this, this really fascinating golf course, to be in LA with all the excitement and competing for a national championship, and it was just an absolute like palate cleanser. And you know, I have no doubt this week that the Westampster is gonna be the same. So it's been. It's been a nice, nice break, nice change of scenery.
And I want to know, I want to know more about it. I will say on the subject of money, Uh, just in order in order for us to pay some of our bills.
Yes, I want to thanks thank.
Some of the sponsors that we have not only a part of the Fire Drill but also the Fire Pit Podcast, but also just a sponsor and supporter of everything we do here at the Fire Pit Collective. And that's first Dormy Workshop, which as you know, is an incredible golf family business based in Halifax, Nova Scotia, where all they
do is make quality leather headcovers and accessories. As you know, Ali found the Bishop Brothers at the PJ Merchandise Show almost ten years ago, been promoting their people and products ever since. Go to dorm Workshop dot com and use promo code fire Pit fifteen for fifteen percent off your next purchase. Or go to the pit shop at Firepitcollective dot com and order one of our exclusive Dormy Workshop headcovers or stash bags.
Plus.
Link Sol is a big sponsor of everything we do. We have a much more immersive relationship going forward as of recently. In fact, John Ashworth is now sharing some of our office space here in Oceanside. And you know we play all of our home golf at Goathillpark, all that he's done up there, any and all things link Soul, John Ashworth Goatthillpark. We're a big fan of supporter of Go to linksoul dot com and use fire Pit twenty five for twenty five percent off your next purchase of
all things link Soul. On that note, Al, I mean, you know that comparison and contrast of ProLife versus am life, and that refreshing kind of of look at not only you know, amateur golf but specifically women's amateur golf at a place like bel Air. What are your kind of big big takeaways.
Well, one of the things, and this is I'm not breaking new ground here, but to see it up close in personal and such intimate setting, is how much more fun it is to watch the top women play an old classic golf course because they can't blow it over every bunker and every dog leg, and they don't hit it so high that it just stops dead on the green like they really do have to play the dog legs. They have to use the contours of the green, they have to use the ground more. It's just so pleasing
esthetically to watch. And I'd played bel Air once since the Tom Doak restoration. It really came away with a new love and appreciation for it because they it was a race track. I mean, they'd shave the grass down everywhere, and so it really brought out the contours around the
green and so the recovery shots were fascinating. Like just and again, you know, I think that the top male pros and even amateurs, they can impart so much spin even in the short game, and they just kind of throw it up in the air and stop it by
the hole and that's cool. It's fun to watch, but you know, there's fifteen sixteen seventeen year old girls out there playing in the US Women's Amateur and they don't have that kind of strength, and so it's much more about bumping it into the slopes and feeding it off of the hills. And it was just super fun to watch, So that aspect of it was great. And you know, Rachel Heck was one of the stars of the week from Stanford and she's just such a breath of fresh air.
I mean, she was coming in straight from rotc training at the Air Force, didn't touch a club or her phone for eighteen days and was absolute grunt, you know, doing pre dawn jogs and all the things you've seen in the movies. And previous to that, she'd had, you know, surgery to remove a rib because she had this very
unusual disorder that was affecting her nerves. And so she played one round of golf since October competitively, and she was just so happy to be there and every and she just every win was a blessing and I mean she's like my new life coach. Talking to her, it was great. She just has such a fantastic perspective on life, and she knows.
I mean, I'm I'm out on the life coaching is that.
That you're You're my backup like ill you know, and I need to go to the bullpen, I'll signal the right hand. Uh uh so that makes it right making. She was a delight and you know, the champ for Megan Schoolfield was of Auburn just really naturally fun, funny personality and she was like the other finalists, Latana Stoone, they were both fifth year They've they've had long journeys in college. Both have had very nice careers but never had a big breakthrough of this level, and so it just meant
so much to them. I mean, Schofield she burst into tears after winning her semi final match, so just the relief and the happiness, and she was a mess after the championship match. It was just so sweet, you know, talking about her parents and her college coaches who took a chance on her, and it's just great. I mean, it's really it's really a joy to be around that energy.
And uh, I think everyone who was watched on TV or those who made the trek out to Bela or just came away with a new appreciation for how good these players are, how funn it is to watch golf at that level, and and just the good vibes of the amateur game.
Is that the fifth year senior stuff is that is at all pretty pretty a direct sort of riple effect of COVID.
Yeah, they did grant all the players the ability to take a fifth year if they wanted it, and a lot of them have and like they're getting there, Stone and Schofield, the two fives, they're getting master's degrees, like you know, they're they're really taking advanceage of it. And it was interesting the final four players. There was a third fifth year player out of Michigan and then Heck is in her fourth year, and that was an interesting
part of the week. Is kind of a subtext to this is not only the COVID stuff, but also the arrival of ni L the name, image, likeness, money. The top players now are not incentivized to go to the LPGA or you know, Heck could have turned pro two years ago she wanted to, and would have been would have been coveted in the marketplace. But she has various deals that are giving her a nice cushion and take away any of the injury risk. And she's not even
sure she wants to turn pro. We talked about she said, I'll probably try and see how it goes, but you know, I'll have a Stanford degree and I'll have a lot of options, and I'm just gonna take it as it comes. And an interesting subtext to that is that the the international players, because they're on student visas in the United States, cannot take nil money. It's it's kind of a violation
of the visa the way it's worded. So fifteen of the sixteen quarter finalists at this Women's Amateur we're American and and in the last this century, almost every winner has been a teenager, and whereas all the two finalists were both you know, twenty two. And so I think you're going to see a change in the women's amateur where it's going to be more heavily American and it's going to be older. These players who stick around for because of because of il money makes it an easy choice.
So I think that's I think that's good for the championship. Yeah, these players, they've been around, you've kind of gone on there on this journey with them, especially in the case of Rachel Heck, who was his freshman phenom and then had two years of injury and it's now back like you're just more invested than in a seventeen year old who hasn't lived any life and hasn't been through any adversity. And you know, I think for for US fans, for better or for worse, you know, they kind of gravitate
towards the American players. That's just where their rooting interest goes when they don't have a lot of history with the players. So I think it's good for the championship. It's it's going to be the demographics are changing, and it's been it's been forty years since any player mid am you know, to find is someone who's twenty five or older won the US Women's Amateur but and almost
as long on the US amateur side. But I think you're gonna you're gonna have a lot more twenty two to twenty three year olds, which is getting creeping up on the midam's cutoff. So it's funny how how these market forces and big picture things affect these tournaments.
I know we'll get into Ireland here in a second, but I was with Anya donegan at La Hinch just prior, you know, after the Women's US Opening, before she left for the Women's US Amateur, And that was a big
part of our conversation. You know, here she was talking about a breakout star at Pebble Beach and how she kind of won the hearts of the golfing world with her first round sixty nine, her walk in talk on Friday, you know, all that she went through, you know, lost and then broken clubs coming into the Women's Open, you know, to talk about a breath of fresh air. I mean just just could not say more about being around her.
But the big topic of conversation for her was, you know, now with all this business stuff coming at her and you know, potential opportunities, but then her going to school at LSU and not being able to get any nil money because of the visa she's on, She's had a huge disadvantage. You know, she comes from a small town, you know, in Ireland. You know, I know I know her parents, you know, work and stuff, but it's you know,
I don't think they're very well off. And international travel and all the costs that go along with golf in general. I mean she you know, I just don't know how this all gets sorted, if and when it does, or ever. But to your point, I think us women, you know, us amateur golfers are going to be greatly benefiting from the NIL deals and the international players are at a huge disadvantage.
Yeah, I mean this, this, this could all change, of course, through some tweaks to the student visa language or advocacy by various groups. So it's not forever, but that's certainly the landscape right now. And I know Anya came into bel Air very late because of that, and she, you know, she never quite looked like she got her footing. And
it's a heck of a long journey. It was. It was the wrong week to come in late because a lot of the players stayed with families of bel Air members and some unbelievable houses right there, and they were having the time of their life and they're in these mansions in bel Air and bopping around Los Angeles like Latana Stone her her host family had this murdered out
Rolls Royce like Black Home Black. She was, you know, she was going to and from the golf tournament and it's like, I mean, it was just it was just a funny. There's there's a lot of nice clubs out there, but the Beller people like to like to show off, and so the cars and the houses. And I made a I made a joke on not a joke and observation on Twitter that got a lot of pickup because all the Beller members they got the club crest on
their hat, their shirt, their belt, their socks. I mean we needed to yeah, fourteen club, you know limit in your in your bag. We needed like a two logo limit out there at bell Air because they were all in violation of it. But I will say the club did it. They were extremely welcoming like that. They did a great job. It's a very hilly golf course and they had an army of staffers out there and carts to just get fans around if you need it, if
you needed a boost, and they were pulling. Everyone was carrying waters and there was a place where they had you know, cold towels you could cool off because there was some hot days. They were very hospitable. So I guess we'll allow them the logos because they did a nice job with the fans.
I was saying to Anya Man coming in on Friday before I'm dealing with the jet lag of coming west on that far of a trip, you know, from Ireland to the West coast, eight hour difference, that's a real thing. And for her to get in and have to turn around and adjust to that and also play that, you know, play an unfamiliar golf course, there was a lot stacked
against her. I tried to put her in touch with Gunner Weby, son of Mark Weeby, and then who played on the PGA Tour obviously, and then Gunner is now at the DP World Tour and having some good success and not long after Covid sort of recommitted to playing professionally.
And.
I think he has tie. He has a tie for the course record or almost shot fifty nine at Bella not not that long ago. So I tried, you know, I put them in contact. I don't know if they were ever to ever talk, but wanted to get any a little inside scoop on the on the ins and outs of bell Air, just to try to give her a little help going into going into it. So I don't know whether or not that.
Yeah, I didn't ask for that. Yeah, there's a lot of inside knowledge to be gleaned, like I was staying at the Trophy Championship in Jim Bones Mackay's brother came up to say hi, I never met him before and he's a member out there, and so you know, it's like, oh, it could have some so mu sort of ring up Bones. He's played a lot at bell Air. There's there's some fun connections you make out there. But let's talk about
Ireland a little bit. Because you were you were kind of keeping people apprized of your travels on social but I'm privy to more of the details. I mean when the content's coming and we'll talk about in more detail various stages, but we just tell the listeners like some of the highlights and how long you were there and how many rounds you played and how much you saw of the entire island, because it's pretty incredible.
So, even going back pre COVID, my dream was always to play in The Father Daughter with our daughter Kylie, who is now nineteen. We started talking about this and actually had entered The Father Daughter pre COVID when she was about fifteen, and it didn't happen, and for a variety of reasons, but it just didn't work out. So the goal was to play in the Father Daughter with her, do some work in Ireland and then play in the Father Son. It's something I've played in now for over ten years, and.
We've talked a lot about that.
I've done features on that. That's obviously one of the greatest events in golf in the world, there's no question about it. Ninety six teams, Fathers and Sons, thirty fourth year. This year it was the fifteenth year of the Father Daughter. And I will tell you that Kylie is had played a lot of hockey growing up. We've gone to Gohill Park. She played a year on her high school golf team when we were in Florida. But at that point that high school golf team was really just almost like an
introduction to the game. It wasn't a very hyper competitive so she had never actually played eighteen full holes of golf. She had played Winter Park nine with me. She'd you know, hit some range balls at Goahill Park. The Father Daughter up to forty teams this year. It's not you know, yes, there are there are a lot of There are a lot of you know, young women out there who can play really good golf. And obviously there are some the variation of Dad's skill levels is all over the map,
from you know, plus to twenty five handicaps. It's it's it's really you know, even the father son. It's not, as I say, if you show up to win, you're probably not at the right kind of event. If you happen to win, then let's celebrate, you know what I mean. It's not about that. It's about the networking and the camaraderie and the conversations and the it's just it's just about so much more that we've talked about a million times that golf provides. It's about the course, it's about
the community around that golf course. It's it's so much. So Kylie goes in. We get three incredible days of weather, thank god, because if it was raining sideways, I think she would have looked at me.
Like is this really what? Like?
You play in this? I mean, you know, like she's just way more sensible than anybody that I know, So she would have looked at me like this just makes no sense. I mean we got to go again, and so we had great weather. She had her first pint of guinness. She's nineteen drinking age there is eighteen, So she had her first pinted guinness, first shot a whiskey, She had her first eighteen holes of golf, she had her first tournament of golf. She got her first you know,
little tattoo. Her and her mom went to Dublin Inc. And she got three little daisies on her arm representing her, her mom and her grandma. You know, she you know, as you know Alan A, teenagers dealing with COVID and in high school really handcuffed their social growth. Kylie moved states, she moved high schools. Her social growth was seriously stunted by this global pandemic. She had become very you know, shellish as far as her social endeavors. She works hard.
She gets a four point two GPA. She's an amazing human being, talented in so many different ways. This trip to Ireland, that tournament the father daughter not only helped us in our relationship, it helped her social growth, you know, immensely. Like Katie and I, we watched her literally blossom. And she was with three great, young, incredible women in Julia Carr, Sophie Grace Carr. So Julia Carr is the son a daughter of Marty Carr. Sophie Grace is the.
Daughter of.
Roddy Carr and then and then Aide Malloy's daughter. She is Adriana Molloy. These girls have been playing in the Father Daughter for so long, and they took Kylie under her wing and you know, helped kind of shepherd her as a golfer but also as a young female in
a foreign country. It was you know, so that in itself, if you're looking for highlights, and we did a we're going to do a whole feature on the Father Daughter and why this particular tournament matters in the bigger scheme of things for the fathers the daughters in the greater game of golf. So that to me is where we started and that was like the the biggest highlight.
In addition, by the way, yeah, by the way, her first round was at Waterville, Like I mean, you're talking about one of the great links courses in the world like that, it's all it's not all downhill from there, but it's close. And but yeah, that that's that's so cool. I mean, of course, I've I've gotten to know Kylie. She's just such a sweetheart and delighted you guys had that experience. Yeah, she'll never forget it. That's special.
No, And I think it's changed the way she's looking at her life.
She's changed.
It's changed the way she's looking at you know, the future of of where she wants to go to school, or to live, or to travel.
You know.
I think travel is such a gift, getting out and seeing the world around us. It's why, you know why my life, my professional life has been such a blessing to be able to you know, move around and meet the people I meet at some of these destinations or events like a father daughter or father son. So yeah, that's she's come back and she wants to play more golf. She wants to win it next year. She got better
every swing by the end. Her last hole of her last round was the eighteenth water glass along a watervill along part five along the water. She had hit the green in three on the previous day and I think four putted and she was getting too she was getting two shots.
She was getting two shots.
On this particular day, she lipped out for what would have been a five net three, which would have been an egle four point in Stableford, and it just hung on the edge and we all collapsed. It's a picture I posted on Instagram. Mel McLain of Momentum Golf Photography. He shot and so she made a six for four and made a birdie. But like that's where it ended, and she is hooked.
She's hooked. So anyway, that's so great.
In addition to all that good, Yeah, in addition to all that, we played lahinch ardglass Port, Marnick Port, martin Port, Marnick Lynx a dare from the tips. I stopped by and saw the changes to Donebeg, you know, obviously keeping all politics aside. You know, what Hawtrey did to what the original Greg Norman design was was something I wanted to get eyes on. And next door to Donebeg is Michael Boland's original home going back to the eighteen hundreds.
Michael Boland, if you did, if you saw our Dublin travel show, is my great great grandfather. So we knocked on doors, talk about a highlight. Katie, Kylie and Bandon and I the four of us knocked on doors, found a farmer who knew what we were talking about. Brought us out to my great great grandfather's old farm. We found the ruins of his house where my great grandfather, Francis Bolan was born before he emigrated to San Francisco.
So I mean I've been out there now twice. We've shot some stuff there that's we pieced together from the epic immigration museum in the Family History Center and all the information we got there and connected the dots to the home in which they used to live. And as of this morning, I took a couple of stones we took from the old ruins and put them in our backyard into kind of a ceremonial like situation with bandon and I bringing it next to this other little collection
of rocks we have in the backyard. So that those are just two highlights I mean not to mention two all Irelands, the football, the Gaelic football and the hurling. The courses we played the forty foots we went to Portumna and Portumna Golf Club, like the Portumlak golf course is my new best value golf course in the world, not just in the world. For thirty euros, you can play Portumda Golf Club. And I'm going to do a whole feature in a little breakdown on you know it's
it's you know it's you can get it. Get to it from an hour and a half from La Hinch. It's next to like a national forest. It is immaculate condition. Thirty euros. You're going to play a golf course in which you think it's three hundred euros. It's it's phenomenal. So I've got to spend time with Owen Lynch, his family and Portumna friend I've made in my travels. I got to play backyard hurling with his kids. They roughed me up a little bit, but I was able to
hold my own. I went out with a guy named Noel Ryan port pints in La Hinch at the Nineteenth Bar in La Hinch for two hours. I was well overserved myself. I barely survived the night, you know, I just did. We have stories out of this trip to Ireland and the previous trip to Ireland that are going to last us for the next twelve months and then some.
Well. I think the listeners can probably pick up on your excitement and your passion for this, So it's going to be I can't wait to see it all come to life. I mean you should. All this everything you just talked about has been captured on camera, like it's going to be some spectacular content and you know, we've we've kind of recommitted to these this the long form travel pieces because you know that's Matt so good at it and they're timeless and who doesn't get swept up in,
you know, wanting to visit these amazing places. So that the Dublin version is already out on you can find it on our YouTube channel or I think when this podcast drops, of course we'll link to it and maybe we'll reup it on our homepage. And this this is kind of part two of Ireland Focus in Belfast, but has a lot of other facets as well, so that'll
be coming hopefully next week. So it's it's fun. It's fun to a lot of people do travel, and you can certainly if you type in ten best golf courses in Ireland, you're going to get various lists and various opinions. But the thing I love about these immersive stories you do, Matt, is that it's the golf is part of it, obviously,
but it's really a cultural excursion. You're sort of like the Anthony Bourdain of the golf beat, where it's like really burrowing into these places you visit and finding the characters and finding the history and I mean there's much an anthropologist as you are a golfer, and so I just love, you know, just as a fan. I love
to watch them because they make me feel connected. I've been to these some of these places, not all of them, but I feel closer to them after I watch the videos because it's you get the context and the history and it's it's neat. So I can't wait for this one because I've been lucky to play through Northern Ireland and it's phenomenal, but I want to learn.
More well that you know, the whole I think we're we're both kind of refocused. Our whole team here at the fire Pro Collective is refocused on our core, you know, our core objectives inform and inspire, entertained, and make people smart about the world they live in, inspire them to go see it and do it for themselves, and entertain them if and when we can make them laugh or
cry or do both. And that's the way I've looked at any and all things I've done from a travel perspective, and I don't rate courses on tea to green on the architecture or architects. That certainly factors into my overall rating of a golf course, but or a travel trip or a destination. But for me, it's about the overall experience. And the experience is at a course from when the time you pull in to the time you leave. What
is that experience? What do you feel? You know, it's not just do I want to go back and play that course again? It's do I want to go back and experience that course again? And all that comes with it. It's you know, it's the person, the first greeting you make, to the to the sendoff you get, and whether or not you feel like you feel that warmth, and it's something you can't really sometimes describe, but it's something that
you can articulate in what you feel. And so I look at that in all of my trips and all of my travel logs. My journeys is and we don't when we go and move around, we don't just experience the golf course. You go out to dinner, you go out for a pint or a beer or a drink. You've got to go find a place to stay, you have to get to your next location. So that's what
journeys or away games is. I used to do at golf die just before I did journeys at Golf Channel and now what we're doing at fire Pit and partnering with in some cases Golf di just in Golf Channel is to is to try to continue on that whole experience, which is, yeah, it's forty to sixty percent golf, and it's forty to sixty percent of what's happening off the golf course. And and we are sticking to that formula because it's something that has always worked and why change now.
And you know, you and I have done a lot of trips together. You've written about our trips. You know, we've you know, socially posted about our trips. We're going to be doing more trips together in the future as well. And look forward to some of some of that as you know, as we continue to kind of team up on all things, you know, golf.
Yeah, absolutely, I look forward to that. Yeah, we were talking about some some destinations this morning that I've been in touch with us as we're starting to put out all these videos and they want us to come do it. It's like, do you want to go to Iceland? I think we want to go to Iceland. We want to gone down the list it's Montana, yes, check Hawaii. But yeah. So let's talk about another big event in the recent history of the Firepit Collective, which was the Billy Walters
Phil Nicholson excerpt that we dropped last Thursday. It just took over the golf media, the sports media, crossed over into the business page. I get. It was just the amount of energy as we knew what would happened. Like, you know, Bennett, one of our our key support guys, he actually called this, uh word Press, which that's the kind of the what our what runs are the organization
that runs our website. Excuse me, Bennett called WordPress to say, Okay, we're expecting a lot of traffic, like we got like let's let's uh get the girders in plays, like, let's button things up. It's like, you know, here, when the hurricanes come, you start putting plywood over the windows and stuff like That was kind of the vibe. We knew this was gonna go crazy, and of course it did. Uh. It's it's always fun and interesting to be the center
of these storms, you know. This was this was Billy's story. These are Billy's words, not not minor yours. But we were a delivery system. And it was actually interesting because a guy came up to me at bel Air. He's just he was just a fan at the tournament and he's just a fan of the fire but I've never
met him before. He introduced himself and said, I just got to ask you, like, what was it like, you know, right before you pressed publish on that on that excerpt, because you know, you knew things were gonna get crazy. And he's like, did you think about it? You take a deep breath, you say a little prayer, like he was like, it was, it was sort of he understood sort of the cinematic moment of like when you press the button, then these things go live. It was, it was.
It was a perceptive question, but you know, I was, I mean, I'd been I'd been immersing this for so long, Like I guess I'm I'm not immune to it. But it's like, okay, here we go. You know, it's just because it does take over your life socially as far as I spent two days on the fire pit handle just engaging with people, answering quot questions, adding context, and that was fun. But it's I felt I felt I frew time had to lay down and close my eyes
because my brain was scrambled. There's just so much coming in and so much going out at the same time. But uh yeah, it was It was interesting, and of course Phil is he's remarkable. He's at the live event at Trump Bedminister when all this stuff goes on, and played the first two rounds. He played some of the
best golf of the year. I mean he was he was right, he was nipping it cam Smith's heels and then in classic Mikelsonian fashion, made an eight on a par three and crashed and burned and just set himself on a fire. I mean, it would have been epic if he could have actually won his first live event the same week this drops, it would have been so
in character. The guy just somehow thrives on the on the juice, you know, he just that's that's the whole that's the whole subtext of the excerpt and to my book about him and just his life, like he needs the juice and everything, and you know, maybe it all caught up with him during the fire around. But what were you over Ireland? I mean you were far away geographically, but everyone's in the golf world there so was what was your action like.
There, No, it was I was on the seventeenth tea of Waterville, A very good part three. And one of the drastic improvements that that Tom Fazio made to that golf course was that whole seventeenth green. You can look out beyond, you can see the Waterville house in the distance.
And.
Rain and wind are are at its peak. I mean, it is coming sideways. It's totally out of control. I've got both rain gloves on, you know, everything is so too total breach of rain gear at this point. I mean I was, you know, I literally poured water out of my shoes after the round. And at that moment was when was when, you know, the send button happened and my phone is going crazy and I'm getting tech and comments and commentary and I'm trying. I'm trying to
respond to some of the most important ones. I think even a text to you at that point in both rain gloves with a rain soaked face of my iPhone, and I was like, I just I can't do that. I can't do this right now, this is not happening. I'm gonna have to hit pause on But it was, you know, we're with you know, ninety six fathers and sons and all of whom you know, care and consume the game, not unlike anybody probably listening to this podcast.
And I think it's a general mixed reaction, which is, no one's surprised that Phill bets or bet a lot. I think the numbers were staggering when you put a B instead of an M, as we discussed previously, that's that's amazing. Then running the numbers of how many bets on average per day or specific days in which made a ton of bets, and that was kind of a and then and the in the attempt to bet on you know, I guess, which he denies, but Billy says he made that phone call and want to bet on
the US team in twenty twelve. It was just a massive headshake, which is just like, wow, I you know, obviously you know all that being true. Uh, that's just that's that's that's insane. That's that there are people who have problems, you know, gambling issues, and that takes it to a level that I don't think a lot of people can even process or imagine to be to be realistic.
Yeah, although you know, importantly, in his very artfully crafted statement. You know, Phil didn't deny calling Billy and requesting him to take the bet. He just said he didn't wind up betting on the Ryder cut. So it's you know, it feels he's His legal ease is always interesting to parse. But I will say.
Armand Katayin, by the way, not to not to you know, like armand Katain's response to all of that and what he filed in response to that on our website as well. I just thought was was really important, and I think we're gonna we're gonna get Arman on a podcast here in the near future. But I just you know, I go back to playing softball with Army Katain at Sports Illustrated in Central Park, and I've always respected and marveled at his you know, much like yourself, people like Haimi Diaz,
Tim Rose of Fort, John Hawkins, Bob Verdi. I've always had, you know, some of my favorites, and he's always been one of my favorite.
You know.
Bill Knack is another guy I ad mentioned, but like armand Katayin is, he is no mess around as it relates to journalism, writing, reporting, and the sum total of his of his his work portfolio it's incredible.
Yeah, and you know, Army and I we've been talking off and on for a while, and I mean it was a three year project to get this book in print. Yeah, it was almost the way he describes it, I'm on paraphrase, but it was like he was writing his Bucking Bronco because Billy Walters has stories upon stories and that, and but fact checking them and running down the other people who were part of the tale and confirming it all. I mean, it was like the mother of all fact
checking jobs. And you know in the story you mentioned that on Firepay Collective that Armand wrote, he does get into some of the methodology and but it was, Yeah, it was I think the writing the book that actually typing up the stories was the easy part. It was all the vetting and all the investigating and and all the fact checking that was the real challenge. And hats
off to Arman because that was, no doubt complex. But I will say what one one of the primary reactions that came through on social is as I was as I I was engaging with so many different golf fans, but people saying, you know, this makes me like Phil Moore, you know what a legend like as we talked about last week, I mean, Phil's going to survive this because he survives everything. And I think a lot of people are like, hey, it's his money, he can do whatever
he wants. Like if I had that kind of money, I would I would I would bet on everything too. And there was I think this is partially because sports betting and gambling has become such a part of the mainstream culture. People were just more amazed than than outrage.
You know. It was just like, wow, that's crazy. But you know that kind of makes me like Phil, So I'm agnostic, you know, I'm I think I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything when it comes to Phil Nicholson, like I are my attitude of my book, and I think Billy Walters was the same, like I'm just gonna tell the story. These are the facts, and people can
draw their own conclusions. And with that was interesting. I mean, I think, you know, I just I read that the Cincinnati Reds baseball seam they have a sports book on the ground, you know, and Pete Rose, of course his banned for betting, Like the society has changed a lot, and of course a bunch of NFL guys are getting suspended right now for betting. You know, it's it's a fine line when you get into the the participants of
the games. And you know one I was talking about to Bamberger about this and he was close to Bart Giamatti actually wrote a play about Bart Giammotty that was produced in Philadelphia, and Giamatti was the commissioner of baseball who banned Pete Rose. And Michael's also friendly with this guy, John Dowd, I believe is his name. He was kind of look, he was the person who did the investigation
of Pete Rose. And Michael's takeaway, if I can speak for him, is that what these guys say is even if you're betting on your own team, that shows a level of desperation. And what happens is that when you're betting that much and that really eventually the book is going to own you. And that was the whole lesson of the Black Sox scandal, going back to nineteen nineteen the Chicago White Sox is when you're betting on your own sport, you're gonna lose, and you're gonna you're gonna
eventually owe the bookie your life. On some level, and then you can be manipulated, and then you can they can extract information, and then they can they can nudge you to go to the dark side. And that's really the danger. And I thought that was inching perspective when it comes to phil Is again, he's denied betting on the Ryder Cup, and we'll have to take that at face value, but that he was considering it, and that
he gambles so much. I mean, it would be very easy for him to start dabbling and betting on golf because there he has real proprietary information. You know, he's he's in the locker room on Wednesday and he knows that some guy you know wrenched his back or found a magic putter and made thirteen birdies in their practice round, or you know, you can imagine that someone on the inside what kind of information they're privy to, and that that it was wishing perspective from Michael is That's where
it gets dangerous. Is when you start betting on your own sport. You've gone, you've you've already broken a very important barrier, You've sort of crossed the rubicon, and then what how susceptible are you to to keep pushing that, and again we don't have.
Any isn't that in that isn't that called insider like insider trading, which ironically is ultimately what what Billy?
You know? Yeah time, I mean, I told this story not even that long ago on this podcast, but when I was, you know, in two thousand and four, when I extracted one thousand pounds from our Sports Illustrated editor Jim Harry to go over to the Open Championship and bet, you know, at lad Brokes on the corner stores, and I was run around talking to every caddy, swing coach,
physio wife I could find. I was pumping them for information, like I'm you know, it was totally unethical, but I was having a great time, and so I I understand that that rush. You know, you hear something about some obscure player who'd got in a fight with his wife the night before, You're like, oh, I'm gonna bet against that guy. Like I totally went down that rabbit hole.
And I'm coming this is my confessional now twenty years later, but you know it was when it was in the service of the readership I wrote about it was all really for fun. I'm not really a gambler. That was a one off, but I kind of picked up on that adrenaline, like, oh god, I think Nick Price just sprained his ankle, like I gotta go bet against him in the in his matchup against kJ Choy, like you know, like it's it's just funny, like how I can see
it that. I'm not talking about Phil, I'm talking about anybody when when you when you're in a sport and you know so much, the temptation is there, and so that's why you need that firewall because then things can can go off the rails very quickly. Uh.
Aaron Hills, Ricky Elliott practice round talking about ultimately Port Stewart, which we just did the story on which we'll drop in our Northern Ireland piece, told me, you know his guy Brooks Keepka has never hit the driver better, never hit it farther, never hit it straighter. I put one hundred bucks thirty five to one. I think Brooks was at that time thirty five hundred bucks later. And then
Sergio Garcia before he won the Masters. I heard the father in law gave him a big cage rattle like get over yourself, like quit acting like you know the game like owes you something, go out and earn it, like go win, like stop being such a little bitch basically, And that was the father in law. You know, it comes from like a you know, kind of a football family and kind of gave him, gave him that shake up.
I had heard that and I was like, oh wow, that that might be exactly the pep talk that Sergio needed. Anyone the masters and I benefited. But you know, I mean that's I felt a little like, I mean, this is really good info. I'll put a little couple of dollars.
On this one.
And I know, I can't tell you how many golf bets I've lost when I thought I had insider info. But those two in particular, uh stuck with me because they were big wins.
Yeah, and it's interesting. I mean a guy like Jason Sobell, you know, he was at ESPN. Now he writes for the Action Network, and we have we have other colleagues who were on the beat and now they're they're writing for gaming sites. You know, Teddy Greenstein, he's he was in Chicago trib like ye. You know, they're out there talking to people. So it's I don't know where you draw the line on this it's it's or can you
like how like how how? I don't know it's but I think how you do it for the players is you just you just say this, this is the red line you can't cross. And so I will be curious if if there's any formal investigation into Billy Walter's accusation, if the PGA of America will look into it because
it's their championship. You know, Phil was a PG to remember then he's not now, but if if the framework agreement gets consummated, he would have access to go back, like, are the the powers that be just going to completely sweep this under the rug and and just dismiss it. Are they going to feel compelled to look into it? And you know, it's an interesting question. We'll see. Of course, if it's the tour, they don't talk about these things
at all. Golf is always so hush hush, But I think it's probably a wake up call for professional golfers, like you know, you got you just you just can't cross that line. Even even ten, eleven, twelve years later, it might it might come out and when again Phil's denied it, Billy says in the excerpt, like we hung up I don't know if he plays a bet with somebody else, So we're gonna have to take Phil's word that he didn't. But to even make the call and
even to consider it is very interesting and revealing. And this whether this is a point of inflect for the game or not, I don't know. But you know, the PGA Tour has gotten really big into sports betting. Live Golf just announce the relationship with sports bet. They're going to I think it's sports bet. I I don't keep track. There's so many of them now, but they're they're literally just and there's so many. Yeah, there's there. Live is going to offer, like you know, official channel to to
bet on their rounds. So it's so pervasive. Whether the whether the sport wants to take a hard look at this or not. I mean there's already language. But if if things are going to get are going to get taken a little more seriously, and if there's going to be any fallout from this particular case remains to be seen.
Man, At times, we go from you know, am life, you know, n I L deals to UH to to you know, where we are in the state of gambling, uh with a little you know, father, daughter, father son in the middle, you know, Little Ireland, the purity of the Irish, the Irish where amateurs actually play for borderline nothing by the way, to talk about all All Ireland finals. And you're got you got guys like Joe Canning, who are the Steph Curries of their game, telling me that
who's a prominent figure in our Dublin piece. Joe Canning fourteen years one in all Ireland, you know, won four club four club championships, all Ireland's for Portumna, you know, just all everybody agrees he's one of the greatest to ever play the game. And at the height of his powers was making about forty thousand euros a year in
endorsement deals. If he was lucky forty thousand a year, you know, and you know he would have been he would have been making, you know, forty million a year in the US.
I mean, he's like, he's he's.
Messy, he's Gretzky, He's Steph Curry, he's game changer. And and they did it for the love of each other, their town, their county, and still do to this day. It's changing a little bit, and I think there's more money floating around things to the people like a JP McManus, who you know, sort of realizes like this is kind
of ridiculous. Let's try to help these people out where, you know, but the GAA and some of the people, you know, Joe Canning tells me he's a shot from the sideline as time is running out, ties up the game, and in a tie game at the end of hurling, and an all hurling final means they come back like two weeks later and replay the game. So another eighty three thousand tickets are sold, all the concessions, all the merchant, all that stuff. It happens all over again.
How much does Joe.
Cannon get to that, you know, zero amazing And the difference between that and the PGA Tour players and all that's happening in professional golf versus the purity of you know, the GAA sporting life in Ireland. You couldn't couldn't get uh, you know, further ends of the spectrum. So it's just fascinating.
Well yeah, I mean, in summary, I think if people are fans of fire pay collective, it's because we sort of were eclectic and we follow things we're passionate about, and we're never going to be like a golf dot com or Golf Digest dot com, and we try and cover everything. It's just there's enough of that out there already. You know, we don't want to write five hundred word
stories about Rory McElroy's new putter. You know, we'll let that other people do that, but we kind of immerseer o Lucas Glover.
Lucas Glover's new putter is a pretty hot topic. Yeah, that is interesting if you want to hear more on that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lucas poor some out. I mean, Lucas is what a run he's been on. But you know, we're we just kind of follow our hearts and so like I'm on this little run of amateur events. It's been fun and I'll be writing every day about the US amateur People can check that out on our website and your Island. Content's coming, you know, it's now two months from the book release of my live book. There
will be a content bonanza around that. We've got various other projects in the works, so it's nice to surprise the listeners and the readers. I think maybe they don't necessarily know what's coming next to me. That's a good thing. Like I think, you always want to surprise and delight the people who are falling along, So I can't wait to watch all these these videos unspool. Matt. I know you're gonna be busy on the editing and the back end of all this, so it'll be it'll be great fun.
We will of course put that on all our channels and let everyone know what to look for and when. But I think this is a fun chat, so thanks for taking the time. Any party shots before we release the listeners.
No, good to be back, Good to be home. I love being away, but it's always good to be home. Good to be back in Oceanside. I've missed my goat Hill Park community. We got a monthly medal on Saturday. I'm hoping my links golf experiences and the shots that I was hitting over there translates into something fun come Saturday. But you know what, you know, the curse of having any expectations going indie golf round is the death of
all good scores. So yeah, but good to be back here, Good to be back on with you and uh and can't wait for what's next because it's a lot and.
Yeah, it's always something coming all right. Well, this was another fire Drill podcast. I am Alan Schipnak. That was Matt Janelle. We appreciate you for listening. Thanks to Link Soul and Dormy for sponsoring us and helping us keep doing what we're doing. And we back at it again soon. So that's the end. Thanks. I'm bed big again.
I played the wind, made a fortune when my ship came and I ran the table and never thought I could fall. Then the wind and hit me. Lack of canon the ball, and now I can't shake this, lose.
In the stream.
Every road I take is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head.
I can't get
Them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.