I think it's amazing that he's as good as he is because he's got so much going on in his life. Guys do not play better once they get super involved in the politics of the Patriot Jury.
That got Daughts in my head.
Can't get him John, and not the thing, well I'm thinking about, can't get him out, John, Not the thing what I'm thinking about.
Hello, welcome back to our fire Drill podcast. I am delighted to be joined by Michael Bamberger, who at this moment is in Philadelphia, but he will be at Royal Liverpool before we know it. Michael, thanks for squeezing in the little podcast here.
You know you have a good time talking about the Open Championship aka shpen And tell the people about the time that Mark Moulvoy sent you over there with a few hundred quid to gamble away.
Well, no, it was actually was a thousand. It's probably the greatest boondoggle in the history of sports journalism. I convinced the SI editors because if you've been to the Open, any fans would know this punting, as they call it, is a big part of the fabric of the event. And these little towns, there's little there's betting parlors on every corner, or so it seems, and you can and this this okay, also say this is like the nineties, This is way before smartphones, where betting was so easy
and ubiquitous like it was. This was to bet on the open, you kind of had to be over there, right, and uh, it was, it was. It was part of the conversation. There's all these different bets you could do. And so I this is probably I'm sure I violated the laws of various nation states. But I was talking up caddies, swing coaches, gleaning all kinds of insider information and to place my bets. It was fantastic even so, and I was.
How about the chime ink ethics guideline?
Nobody cares about that was Michael, give me a break. So at the end of like three days of reckless you know, betting, I still had I think maybe seven hundred pounds left. I'd lost three hundred, although actually I snatched an emergency like one hundred pounds out of John Garretty's wallet, so I was actually I was wagering eleven hundred. Yeah, I love Juggert and so but I had this moment of clarity on the last night, I was like, well, this isn't my money anyway, no one, how can I'm
not that invested. If I lose at all, who cares? This is time ink money. So I said to our beloved editor Jim Harry, I said, I need something. I need a payoff here. So how much would it cost to take the whole staff to Bandon Dunes for a boondoggle? And he said fifteen thousand dollars US. So that was like whatever in those days, twelve thousand pounds or I did the math. So I went to the betting haul the next morning, and I'm the dude sleeping in the doorway.
Guys don't have teeth. It is not a prosperous looking crowd. And I said to the nice young lady, I said, okay, I need to engineer a parlay so I can win whatever twelve thousand pounds. And so what you can do over there is I'm sure you still can. But in those days, on the weekend, there was two balls and you would just you would just pick who's going to in the players who were paired together. You would have the lowest score. It's a very simple bet. But if
they tie, you lose. So so I went through it and had I had run around the night before, talking to all these people, kind of had it in my mind who I wanted to bet on, and anyway it was. It wound up being a six tiered parlay, six different pairings, and I won the first one, I won the second one, I won the third one. At this point, I was having trouble breathing. I was so excited. I didn't care
who won the Open Championship. All that mattered was the bet and Michael, as you remember, people were tuned into this in the press tent because I was talking about it all week. I won the fourth bet, I won the fifth bet. So now we are on the precipice of going to Bandon Dunes like all of us, and me becoming an everlasting legend in the annals of sports journalism Open Championship punting, and god knows what else I would have done with the money if we'd won.
And so you could be Jason Soble today had this.
Twenty years ago, Soble and so the last. But I was also reporting the story because I wrote this whole thing up. So I was running into the locker room and in the parking lot trying to get players. And so finally I get out to the last hole for the last bet, and right behind the clubhouse, about three steps off the green, it was Ob and the last bet it was Nick Prey. Yeah, what's that?
Are yell with them?
Where Todd Hamilton beat Ernie L's This is O four?
I think maybe Truon?
Was it Truon? God? No, my brain joke Meal, Michael, you're killing my momentum. It doesn't even matter where we are.
Keep it going.
Behind the last green. Two steps over the green is Ob. And so I run out to eighteen and my two guys. There's whistling and buzzling. Someone has gone long over the green. Their ball is one foot out of bounds. And I had chosen Nick Price to win this two ball and it was kJ Choy. If CHOI has gone out of bounds, I've won and I've become a legend. And so asking whose ball is at No one's really paying attention. They're not in contention. You know, there's not a lot of
people there. They're walking down the middle of the fairway. You can't tell from their body language their stride for stride. It was the longest like two hundred yard walk in the history of golf. And finally, you know, Choi peels off into the front bunker to play a shot, Price goes back and retrieves his ball with a shrug. And so I lost the last vet and we didn't go to Bandon Dunes. But it's probably the most one I've ever had on assignment.
That's great. It was, it was, And you're right, that's very tight there.
Oh my god, it's unbelievable. But yeah, I mean, those are the little things that make the open so fun. That was little, that wasn't little. But you know, do you remember, do you remember, Michael, when we went at Carnoustie when your man Francesco Mollinari won. It's Sunday. We don't like to complain about the press room food because the people don't care if they don't want to hear it. But the pressroom food at the open is always suboptimal.
And so it's Sunday. Everything's gone, they're out of everything. We're all grinding on deadline. And there's a fish and chips dude who goes to every open. He's got this little trailer and it's the best fish and chips in the World. I walked out there and I got three fish and chips, one for me, one for you. I can't remember where the third person was.
Very likely guaranty you was a fisher chip so file, but maybe not.
Yeah, I'm trying to remember. And so I'm carrying this tray with three loaded down fish and chips and it's it's precarious and I'm walking and Tim Michelson comes by and he was mad about something. He's like, he's barking at me about something I had written earlier in the year, and I just looked at him. So dump and I said, Tim, do you want some chips? I got lots of chips. Here, take some chips. And he looked at me. I looked at him. I just kept walking. He was so random
and funny. But we ate the fish and chips. Our fingers were oily and it helped us type. They were well lubricated and we got through the night. So, Michael, what do you love about the open? And we should say that. Let me just say this. Our colleigue, Jack McCallum at Sports Illustrated decades ago tabbed Michael the Poet oh links Land, and to this day it lives on in a certain subset of sports illustrated. Yeah, people, Just a.
Little background on that, because McCallum was is an NBA Hall of is in the NBA Hall of Fame as a basketball writer. And he used to have an annual tournament at his golf course, the Bethlehem Uni, and Alan played in and I played in a bunch and he had a little skinny line for each contestant. Mind I was annually uh poeto links Land. But then m dash will heave hagis when he sees the Bethlehem Muni was so little traveled in golf, he doesn't know how good the Bethlin Muni is.
It's fantastic.
So Trump and I, mccalm and I are one's playing the Trump. I think the Westchester Trump Westchester Course, and I said, Jack, this course is so much better. Excuse me. The Bethle Muni is so much better than this Trump Westchester course with the fire with the I said, fireworks, but I might as well be fireks. But with the you know, the the waterfalls and the Hamburgers and the
cart paths and all the rest. And McCollum's like, you're shitting me, right, I said no, absolutely, literally, Bethlehem, Muni is a way way better at golf course. Now, of course all this is subjective, and you know it goes by taste and other things. But McCollum was a great spirit of many, many things, and part of it was this uh uh, this anal tournament. I would say, Alan one of the truest. And I don't know who wrote it,
but let's just say we ever have written collectively. Is when we have a fan in the Swinger talking to Tree Tremont, who's a contestant in an Open Championship British Open as I call it, and the fan says, you cannot play without the magic drugs, can you? And that's really the reason we like that line, Alan was. It's true. That's what that spirit that's like the Masters is the Masters. It's a whole thing onto itself. It's a whole culture. It's very interesting. The US Open is a different culture.
Of the three majors, the Open, British Open, whatever you want to call it, it has the most bringing everybody, literally bringing everybody, kids galore, royals, all time, landed gentry, but also a lot of regular punters and pensioners and drinkers and and people's not screaming stuff that's stupid, just like commenting intelligently. So when they speak about really really intelligent galleries, these are the most intelligent, passionate galleries in
the world. The golf courses are the best in the world, even like a boring course like Royal Liverpool is so great you can't believe it. Any one of these golf courses for my taste, the least of them, which people say is we're all Saint George's, which is insane, because we're all Saint George's is such an interesting, tricky, difficult, fun hard golf course is so much better than anything we have in the United States because quote, I guess
I'm quoting myself, and I know what I'm using. The word quote for it's golf is it's meant to be played. You can play it on the ground, you can play it in the air. You gotta stay short of the traps. If you get out of the traps, you better get out and warn it de emphasizes putting Alan and I have had, you know, more than a few evening matches where I can sort of have more of a chance to hold my own because because even though I have limited skill. I can sort of shape the ball a
little bit, but I can't putt. But if you can't put you can put a slower green better than a faster And I have Brad Paxon on the phone here in a day or two, I hope to talk about the differences between putting over there and over here. I caddied for a man Peter Tarviaine and who played golf at Yale, was very good Teita Green and could make a living on the European Tour because those greens. And of course you know some similar to the greens is
Golle de emphasized putting by de emphasizing speed. So I think just overall, you know you hit you, you know you've got us off on the right foot. Just talking about the punters and your own gambling experience, it's just super, super, super spirited, and I really do love everything about it. I mean, if I could only win one major, maybe it would be the Masters because of that neat clebbiness and you're there for life, and that's cool, and we're American, but it's the greatest of the three majors.
Well, and just the scale of it, I mean, there's nothing like that Canyon of grand stands around eighteen that they every year put up, and there's this an expansiveness to the golf courses a lot of obviously some of the American courses now have taken out trees and they're a little more open in their field, but the seaside Links have always had that where you can stand at a certain points you can see the whole golf course and you can see the fans and where they're clustering,
and there there's the fan villages, the infrastructure, they everything is just it just feels grand over there. Not ostentatious, but just as opposite of that. It's simple, but it's this is the sort of the championship of the world, and it has that feeling and I always love that.
Can you remember your first experience playing Links golf?
Oh God, yes, So it was nineteen ninety six. I was living in New York. I just started I just graduated UCLA, and I was I'd started out at Sports Illustrated and there was a whole group of SI folks who annually would go over to Scotland. You know, some of them, Greg Kelly, Meryl Noden, terrific writer, and just some of their friends, and so Matt, Janelle and I went together and we flew overnight and we went and we played Royal Aberdeen, which has hosted various championships and
it's a terrific golf course. I'm embarrassed to say I really didn't know that much about the courses in Scotland. I had not done my due diligence. I was blissfully ignorant. And we got out in the parking lot and it was cold and rainy and scrambling and put clothes and layers on and we went out in that front nine at Aberdeen. It's just an incredible sort of moonscape and
I was blown away by all of it. And then the next day we played thirty six holes at Cruden Bay, which remains my favorite golf course in the world, and it was and I actually I played great. I still remember some of the shots I hit there like it was one of the occasions. But I just in control of my golf ball. And you know that Cruden Bay, you've got that blind part three, you have to hook it around a dune. Then there's a thirty dog part three. Yeah,
I don't even know where you're going. I'm like what am I doing? And there's that, and right before that there's the par four with the blind Green that's down in that incredible dell. I guess it's just and some of the views and you've got Bramstoker's Castle and there's driveable par fours and there's super long hard Part three's and everything, and cruden Bay just completely changed my whole
feeling about golf. Aberdeen was was terrific and just the turf and the shots and everything, but cruden Bay was like almost a religious experience for me. And play it twice and it was just I've never been happier in my life. And I still fantasize about there's some nice houses right there on the hill and going over there and living in cruden Bay. And by the way, the food at the clubhouse there was terrific. I still remember that as well, which was not always the case, as
previously discussed in this podcast. And it's just such a charming you know, the course is in the town. When you're playing the first couples, it feels like you could reach into someone's kitchen and take the pie off their shelf. You know. It's just it's so intimate and I think about going over there, playing golf every day right in the Great American novel whatever, and just living there for six months. And I'm still I'm gonna do it at some point in my life because it remains and I've
been back and my feelings run changed. I think it's the most magical golf course ever played. And so yeah, that that trip was a barnburner. We played like sixteen rounds and nine days and got to all different corners and me and Janella had an unbelievable experience at the old course where we showed up. I've ever told the story on the podcast. Do you know this story, Michael?
We don't.
We get to the starter shack and it was this.
Old it's a handicapp.
We didn't have proof of handicaps. We just didn't know. We hadn't been there. And of course now you would just pull out your phone and show them your gin, but this is nineteen ninety six. It's all analog. And so I'll tell the story briefly because we're getting off track. But and we we were there as as singles, so it's like whatever, six in the morning. We didn't have it. We didn't have a tea time there, maybe seven am
at the latest. And the guy says, well, if you can produce it's like I could get you out, but you'll need to produce proof of handicap. So we're like, God, what do we do. It's you know, it's two in the morning in New York, it's eleven at night in California, Like, how can we do this? But Matt's brother, Sean lived in Hawaii, so it's like eight pm there, and we're like, let's call Sean. And so we call Sean and we tell them what's going on, like we need you to
like make a phony letter attaching to our handicaps. And he's like, oh, I'm all. He's like he loved it. He was all in. So he lived in He's on the north shore of Owahoo near Turtle Bay. So he created a and I think he had a background in graphics, graphic cards. He made this letterhead for the Turtle Bay Country Club. There's a Turtle Bay golf course, but it's not a private club, and he wrote I had these letters.
He wrote like paragraphs about me and Matt, like all what upstanding citizens we were, and that we'd founded all these programs at the club. And we held all these titles and it was so preposterous. I think I was scratched. Matt was like, you know, one point too. It was ridiculous anyway, and he faxed it in. They had they had a fax in the starters shack, probably for Jabbroni's like us, and I'll never forget this old Scottish dude
wrapping on the glass. Gentlemen, your paperwork has been received. And we went out and played, and then we played together and we had a blast, and when you walk off the old course, all you want he was played again, and so we went back to the dude like we played again, and he's like, well, sure. Then we had to split up, but it was just had a couple of spots for singles. So I played with a couple of pilots American They were like these Texas dudes, airline pilots.
And then I can't remember our fourth was, but that was also glorious. I mean, you played thirty six on the old Course, and you know, we started there before the sun came up and line and for the singles, and then we finished it at sunset, you know, with the twinkling lights of the town and yeah, that trip. That trip changed my life without that's.
Neat Alan You you you worked as a car boy and you've played Pebble Beach a bunch over the years. You've been there for tournaments many times, you've been abandoned many times. You've played up and down the East Coast. Have you played Shinnecock Hills?
Oh?
Yeah, played National Golf Links.
Played on on the same day. That was epic. Yeah.
You play Fishers Island.
Number one on my on my to do list.
Have you played Sancity Ahead that's number six. So so here here's my question for you. Do you think there is links golf? And you've played in Australia. You've been in Australia, I have not. You've been to Royal Melbourne and other places. Do you think links golf exists beyond the Kingdom.
There's elements of it, but the difference is the turf, Like it's just the way the ball runs and skidders. It just doesn't. Bandon has that. If you catch it at the right time of year, you know it can get it can get green there and it can it can be almost a little lush, but you know Bandon is built on that incredible sandy soil, but like National National Golf Links has some elements of it. But when I and I haven't played there in a long time,
but the grass was too long in the fairways. It ball didn't didn't didn't bounce and run and roll, and you know, I remember I was doing before Tom Watson played his last to open at St. Andrew's a couple months out of the tournament. I flew over there to do this this story on him, and we were in the Old Course hotel. He done some other interviews that day,
and he was restless. He's like, let's go for a walk, and so we we we left the whole Old Course hotel and we we kind of just skittered through the you know, and Watson is a ranch hand. He was very adept, like climbing through this fence. It was fun to see for an old guy. And we got out there in the seventeenth ferry the road hole and he's like tapping his toe on the turf and you could hear it. He's like, this turf, there's just nothing like it.
And who said with almost lust it was fantastic. And that to me is the big difference, right, It's just the way the ball reacts. So I think Bandon to me is probably the closest you've played. You've played Sancing Ahead and you played Fishers, Like, how do you answer that question?
You know, I always thought the answer was no, But then I had Tom Doak on the phone the other day. We were talking about various things and I posed this very question to him, and anybody who knows Tom Doak knows that he gets to the heart of the matter very efficiently. I said, Tom, do you think there's a links golf beyond the United States? He said yes. I said, well, what would be an example of a links golf course? Excuse me, I misspoke. Do you think there's slings golf
beyond the noun kingdom? He said yes. I said, is there lnks golf in the United States? He said yes. Said what would be an example of it? He said, Nebraska. Wow, I mean it's like one thousand miles from the nearest seer Ocean.
Okay, So you know, I almost I almost threw bally Neil into the conversation because that's not Nebraska, but it's the northeast corner of Colorado and that they call the chop Hills, and yeah, So his.
Answer is your His answer is your answer for for the same reason. When the turf conditions are linksy, it's links golf. Now, I would say I was probably looking at it more technically like links golf is golf that's played on links land. Links Land is that very particular, almost particular in Scotland, but not unique to Scotland completely where it's literally the edge of the sea and the and the land and it's it's no good for agriculture.
You can't really grow anything on it because the lanceu sandy, but you can grow grass on it. And it's humpy and hollowy and windblown. And that's linksland. And when you put a golf on golf course you can have and there is if you go to Mirrorfield, there's several hundred acres of absolutely pure dune land links land right next to Mirfield that's undeveloped, but it is links land. And if you put a golf course there, then you have
a links golf course. Macrohonish of course. Famous sample links golf you know are goldsby Ealy, all famous examples roughness blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, uh So, but Duke's point is really a great point. You could argue this is a key aspect, but it's a great point. It's your point. It's the firmness of the turf. Now we have been you and I both have been to opens when the summer's been lush and it's still for four days and it doesn't play like Links golf at all.
But of course it's still Links golf, but just not the under the normal conditions. But it's interesting how many great golfers, including Jones, Snead and Watson. I can definitely cite those three. I'm sure there's many many others who didn't warm to the whole thing from the get go. You know, there's a famous Tom Watson story where in nineteen seventy five he's going to play in his first Open.
He would have been about let's say he's born forty nine, so he'd been about twenty five, and he goes to He and Hubert Green and John Mahffey they go up to Carnousti and they can't get on the course. You know, it's Scotland. It's really weird Scotland, as you know Alan, because they're really loose people in some ways, and then they're really really by the book in other ways, and that's not good for us the way we like it
wasn't good for Watson on this Sunday. So they said, okay, well they got in the car, they went down I may be mispronouncing, and helped me Alan, you know, if you know what Manafith is, of course down the road exactly. And so you know, Watson kills his down one. Everyone's like, good shot, good shot to get out there. No golf ball, I can't find it anywhere. It's supposed to be the middle of the fairway. And Watson's like, I don't know
about this link's golf. And then there's you know famous Sam Steed story taking a train into the into Saint Andrews's. He says to the guy next to him in the train, he said, what's that over there? What's the over there? That old abandoned golf course? And the guy says, that's the old course, mom, that's where they're playing the open, you know, And then Jones walked off over the other examples, there are other examples. But my thing was a little
bit like your thing. I was ready to like it because I think a lot of bad I do golf in the Kingdom and how much we love that book, and how much we love Michael Murphy and his experience playing Link golf Links Golf and watching a lot of open golf before it went over there. But then I caddied in eighty five in the qualify a roll sink ports for the open next door of roll Saint George's, and I was like, it was blowing and it was great. I thought it was just just great. And then I
then I played it shortly after. I loved it right away and and sometimes won. I'm playing here, it's like it just actually feels like a different game, especially because Alan, You've made this point many times. There's you know, one of the starting points for club golf over there is that you can go on the website now that there are websites and sign up for a tea time. There's no really, there's no, truly, truly, I can't think of one golf course that isn't open to visit or play there.
The only one I know was basically Loch Loman, and that's the least Scottish golf course there is. And and even then we I've that may have changed, but that was the hardest one. To get ironically because it's I would have.
Sorry, loch Loman, don't even care. I wouldn't want to exactly.
It was trying to be something they was trying to be an American private club in Scotland. Discordant but right right, yeah, it's funny. I was just talking to someone about about Bandon Dunes and the Uncle Tony Invitational. We used to play it in July, that's annual trip that Janella organizes, and it was really windy. It was twenty twenty five miles every day. And now we've moved it to the fall and it's much more benign and you were all
scoring better in the fall. But it was more fun in the summer because those courses were built for wind and it just made it so much more interesting. And there was some holes there that just had you quaking in your soft spikes. And now without the wind, they're still challenging, but it's not the same thing, and it's sort of I mean, it can be hard to play
over in Scotland. Those those lives are so tight. You know, there's a times when you hit you hit it up near the green you have to go over a bunker. You know, there's no ground game sometimes where you leave yourself and it's like there's no grass under there, and it's terrifying, and you know you've got these huge crosswinds and when the fescue gets long and can be hard to find your ball. It's not the easiest golf to
play when you're not used to it. But when when you when you start, when you start finding the rhythm of it, it's just so much fun. There's so much going on in every shot, and it's just it's really a thrilling way to play.
You really nailed the key difference. And this is true at every level, and to some degree, this is true at Augusta National, even though it's the antithesis of what we're talking about. If you've ever if you've ever, have you ever been in a Marriott, you know the high rise Mariot where it's got the thin carpet and then there's the cement floor underneath it. If you ever like try to do a plank under those, it's way harder
there because you've got no cushioning whatsoever. But when you try to hit pit shots off those carpets, which I'm sure we've all done, everybody our listener, and you and me and everybody else. Jake, Uh, It's like if you catch it right off the carpet, it's the most satisfying thing in the world because it's like ball, carpet, cement
all in one. That is basically links golf. Because if you don't catch it, if you catch the carpet first, then it bounces off the cement and you catch the way that's a duff, that's an X. And then if you thin it or thicket or whatever it's, it's you can't get away with anything there but a clean strike. And that's really where the legend of Seve became the
legend of Seve, for the purity of the strike. And of course it's no mistake at all that Tom Watson, even though it was a great putter and made his name, I'm putting, but the ball striking was so clean because and the lie is so thin. It's no mistake at all that guys who play well at Augusta and dry conditions which you haven't had in some decades now, and and and open conditions are very very similar. It's I think you're really getting to the crux of the thing.
Alan when you talk about firmness of turf. And that's what Doake was saying about Nebraska, or you know many other places as well, by the way, including hundreds of municipal golf courses throughout the Midwest that don't have expensive watering systems.
But then those places, the greens are often soft, like they overwater the and no other part of the course gets any water, and it's like that doesn't quite hold up.
But there is a missing, a huge missing ingredient to this, which is Peter Alice's phrase in sight and sound of the sea. Insight and sound of the sea, The goals in the air, that heavy marine air. It's like you might throw wind and see almost nothing, but for whatever reason, when that ball gets in the air on a links golf course, a little bit of wind does a lot to hit it, and a big wind is just like
forget about it. And Gardy and I were once playing night golf and Ben Crane of all people, joined us. He was a first alternate and couldn't get into the tournament and we were playing at Wallasey i think it's called, right down the road from Liverpool, and just watching him read the wind on every shot and play it appropriately and he was a straight ball hitter. He was one of the greatest straight ball hitters. Not great, great, but you know, really skillful at hitting a straight golf ball,
like Jeff Maggert was at even a higher level. But he was curving the ball beautifully. And so I mean, if you talk about the really great Open players, Nicholas for the ball strike, Tiger for sure, Watson for sure. I never saw Peter Thompson, but he had to be spectacular.
Yeah, I've seen some old black and white footage of his swing on Twitter and it's it's just gorgeous. So it's easy to imagine.
And how about how about Snead and Hogan. I believe this is correct. I know it's true. For Hogan, I think no, it's not entirely true for Snead. Hogan played in one Open Championship on the hardest golf course I've ever seen. I've never played at car News Team one and Snead played. Did I first Open at St Andrew's I think about forty six in one. He didn't come back for a lot of years because his joke was
but it wasn't a joke. He lost money on the week and uh uh, But I mean, that's the genius of how good they were.
Oh yeah, well, and you know, I'm not I'm not sure if you got to watch much of the Scottish Open this.
Did I watched a munch.
I mean that shot that that Rory hit on the seventy second hold to set up the walk off birdie, that was erotic. I mean, it was.
Just what was that club hitting there?
Yeah? That I don't know, that's a good question.
I jose I was a setup. What was that cluby hitting there?
I don't know. Michael, what was it?
You tell me? What do you think? It was?
Two iron?
What's a two iron? Who even carries a two iron anymore? I think on TV they're calling it a driving iron. I mean, it's just wild that the guy had a two iron without it not having a three arm, so he actually must have opened the face and take it a little bit off of it. You talk about shot making, you know, And Rory's a great, great golfer. If he never wins another major, doesn't matter. He's still going to be a great golfer. But he has one of his
major's undersoft conditions. But that shot was not the shot undersoft conditions. That was a Linksland golf shot, if ever there was one, I'd been to that Renaissance course. You know, it's brand new, it was born built in two thousand, Open in two thousand and eight. I say Britta because like the new course at next to the old courses like eighteen ninety three, that's course for two thousand and eight. It's a joke. But it really looked great on TV,
better than I had remembered it. And it looked really winksy, and it was fantastic to see cold, miserable fans having the time, not well, not miserable, having the time of their life, but it was cold and windy and they were having a great time.
That was so good for Firepit Collective dot com. He wrote a nice story about Rory's win and setting up the fact that we're going back to Royal Liverpool where he won his last Open, and that was you know this, that was peek Rory that summer when the Open went to Firestone one that then won the PGA Championship, you know, his third and fourth unbelievable.
I've forgotten about Firestone, But was that in between the two or as Firestone after?
I think it was in between, Yeah, right, in between, and he's been trying to recapture that ever since. It's we've been talking about Rory so much there's almost nothing left to say. I mean at this point, either he's just got to do it and we'll celebrate it. But you know, I was looking through some numbers, like that's his seventh straight top ten finish. That's the longest streak of his career, or matches it anyway, He's just playing
some of his best golf at the same time. I mean, it's impossible we're going on almost a decade in his prime when he's won everything else. There's no doubt he's had a tremendous career, but it just there's something unfulfilled. And do you have any I mean, you know Rory as well better than anybody on the golf beat. I mean, you're writing about him when he first came out, and I think, Jerry McElroy, you're the one reporter he actually likes.
You guys have a nice rapport. I mean, do you have any thoughts on what this week means to Rory and if there's any reason for optimism that this is going to be the one where he gets off the Schneide.
You can say no, I don't want to say no. I think it's gonna be inredibly hard, just incredibly hard for all I mean, for all the reasons we saw. The Putt went in on eighteen. It didn't have to. He easily could not have. And then you're in a playoff, and then you're so deflated. The other guys play great to get in the playoff. You've played crappy to get in the playoff. Under those conditions, you're probably gonna lose the playoff, even though it's just a one whole playoff,
which is a joke. Anyhow, I think it's gonna be really really really hard, really hard. I just it's what Arnold told me a long time ago. It's not the golf skill. It's what we saw in the tennis today. You know, Djokovic is the best, Djokovic is better than that guy. But Djokovic couldn't beat that guy today because he didn't have the gear he needed it when he needed it. And it's not the fitness gear. It's just some other gear. And Arnold talked about it without being
able to identify it. And so McElroy's got all the skill in the world, but that close it out. Gene is another gene that goes way beyond skill. There's the skill from going from the driving range to the first round, the second round, the third round, but then to go to the fourth round, that's another thing, and then go to the last four holes and get it done is another thing. Of course, Tiger. We saw everything Tiger did his whole career. No one golf's never seen anybody like it.
And then then you add to it all the years now of not winning. You know, having chance is in not winning another major. It looked easy when he was twenty five and he was up to four, but that's nine years ago now, and he went two in one year, and the conditions were soft when he won. I just think it's very, very, very very hard, I really do. I think it's amazing that he's as good as he is because he's got so much going on in his life. I don't know, you know, our friend Mac Barnhoard makes
this point all the time. I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Guys ninety two percent of the time, if not much are do not play better. Once they get super involved in the politics of the PGA tour for whatever reason distraction.
Well, and you know, Rory's been on the front lines here for a year and a half. I mean, as the leading spokesman, the chief shit stirer, the behind the scenes shot collar, like he put his heart and soul
into this battle. And then you know, jay Monhan and Rory's friend Jimmy Dunn just tore open his chest cowty and ripped his heart out and stomped on it and you know, metal spikes like and you could see that at the US Open, he just looked deflate, even though he wound up playing well, but that was just like a he was still processing it. I mean, maybe maybe
maybe he's unburdened now. He's like he was fighting so hard for what he thought, you know, he believed in and for this just cause and for something larger than himself, and he I could see Roy being like, you know what, screw all that, I'm just here to play golf now, and you guys just you figure it out and I'm done emotionally with this whole thing. And I don't think
anybody would blame him. So maybe he's freed up. I mean, he was playing well, and he was he had made the point that because he'd put his neck on a chopping block in some ways that this that's about analogy given the whole jew politics of this, but because he'd put himself on the line here, that that was inspiring him to really grind and try and play his best. And but I think there was you know, he talked about it coming out of the Masters, like the adrenaline
they've been running on ran out. And I think that I don't know this, maybe he'll just kind of freewheel it in a way that he hasn't been able to. We're always Rory. We all project so much onto him, you know, he's like, uh, and he no way lights up golf, Twitter and the whole conversation like he does. It would it would be an incredible exclamation point on this whole period and professional golf. You know, everyone sort
of wanted it. At the Open, it seemed like, you know, that was that the man in the moment were perfectly aligned. Rory was gonna he was gonna win the Open. He was gonna thwart the Saudi's all of it, and of course he got run over by Cam Smith. Uh. But if you were to do it this way, it would it would just sort of bracket these these two years from from Rory's involvement, and it would be it would
be satisfying, it'd be popular. And then who knows whether it's Phil Mickelson or Ben Hogan, but both those guys win their first major until they were Rory's age right now. So it's not like he doesn't have any time is still on his side. He's if he can still win another half dozen majors and put himself in you know, the conversation is one of the five or ten best players ever, it's not it's hardly too late. But every time, as you said, Michael, every time he doesn't win one,
and the questions and the burden just grows. And it's always been one of my favorite stats is the length of time between a player's first and last major championship. I like, Arnold won seven in six years, and that was it, and he was done, Like it was he just flashed and burned. And you know, Tiger Jack have had these these long expanses, so did Ernie. Interestingly, some players were able to do it and do it again and do it again, and other guys that was in
a very compressed period of time. And I mean right, now Rory's three was it three years from twenty eleven to twenty fourteen, Like that's a very small window. It just doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem possible. And given his he's won everything else and during this this major drought, I mean, he's won his Race to do Bay's and his FedEx Cups and the players Championships, and he's won. He's won, you know, the.
Irish Open, the Scottish Open.
He's won everything he can win. So it's not like he's lost any magic. It's just I don't know. I guess part of it is it's the playing conditions are more precise and there's not that room for error, and you've got to be really tight. And you know, Rory's wedge game, maybe his lag putting, maybe all these little things. He can kind of get away with it the Greater Hartford Open, he just can't get away under major conditions. I don't know what it is, but I don't.
Think it's the major. I don't think it's the major conditions. I think it's the fact that it is majors. It is the things that they all measure each other by, especially as he's gotten closer to Tiger over the years, and Tiger's conversations are all about the fifteen, not about the the other you know, sixty out events that he won. I think you just get so focused on the word majors, and you know, when you're playing those last three holes, you know it's for a major title, and there's only
I mean, let's say there's four of them. There really are four of them. I do sort of put the two Opens and the Masters that quite a bit ahead of the PGA, but there are definitely four majors. I'm not being a wise guy here, I think. I think that was Arnold's point. You know, Arnold was really interesting because he was not any kind of great intellectually, wasn't a deep breader, but he was a really deep thinker
about golf and other things as well. And I mean, this seems crazy, but he did say this directly to me, and there were other people in the room, and we talked about it more afterwards. When he won the nineteen sixty US Open, he was never the same after that, even though he won the sixty two sixty four Masters, right yeah, and two British Opens, So I mean, come on, in lots of tour events, and a US Senior Open,
which is not easy to win. But he just said I was not the thing because that was the one, the one, one one that really meant the world to me. And so extrapolate that for the Tiger and the Rori Aer, well that one is now four. It's those four. Yeah, So like Valhalla, PGA at Valhalla, how's that different from a tour event? It's not. I mean when they played in August especially, but it's a big butt and we saw a great tournament there when it was Michelson and
Fowler and Macroy down the stretch. It's that trophy and it's that history and it does weigh on differently.
I don't think.
Joeitch would have ever lost to that kid in any other well, I don't know, got tis to say that.
Yeah, well that kid's got a lot of game. But you're you're right, there's it just.
There.
There's something that's what Wimbledon is the Masters of tennis, right like, and there's there's a choke factor at these things and it's it is fascinating funny talking about Tiger. I mean the two thousand and six Open at Royal Liverpool, it remains indelible Tiger's long irons were you know, maybe the best ever definitely in a small handful of guys ever have struck it like he did. And that was to me the week when I mean he hit Driver once right and he was just his iron play was
so superb. Guys written Driver eight iron, Tiger's laying back off the tee and hitting four irons inside of them the whole week. And one of the things talking about the things we love about Open Championships, like a really great strike which is like a little puff of smoke. You know, it's not a divot, It's like the turf just disintegrates. And I have this image of being out there watching Tiger and just the sound of the strike, these perfect little puffs of smoke like and of course
you know he comes off the green. That was That was his first major championship victory since his father had died, and dissolves into Steve Williams arms like we we through his Throughout his career, we saw some displays of emotion from Tiger and some memorable ones, including the twenty nineteen Masters, the ninety seven Masters, and others. But the way he was just bawling almost felt like Steve Williams was holding him up. You know it was.
It's definitely it's not it's not a performance that's not talked about enough, but to me, it's it's on the Mount Rushmore of Tiger victories, and it was epic.
In every way. I totally feel the Sam and Alan. You know, I mean, not too many people would understand what I'm about to say, but I know you definitely wouldn't. When we're writing these, you know, game stories for Sports Illustrated off hell, and I'm gonna go to the same one or Riley or John Garrity, Russian McCallum and other people over the years. And you have an assignment you're gonna write the winner, You're gonna write the loser, You're
gonna write something else. But if you're gonna write the winner, you better be prepared to write the winner. Well, they don't tell you ahead of time who the winner is gonna be. So that particular open you had Sergio playing great, christ Marco had been playing great for a while, Ernie was playing great, and Tiger and just I don't know why, but I kind of do. I was like, I'm just writing Tiger Tiger because Tiger is gonna win this thing.
And I was completely, one hundred percent committed to writing Tiger. Had anybody else want I had nothing. We don't like to be in that position. But I wasn't surprised at all because it just looks and I'm saying from Thursday on, were you up?
You?
Were you out there? No? Six? And it was just what was your story? Loser?
Probably that and.
Uh but anyway, but you know, I committed to Tiger early, and of course it worked out. It's funny you mentioned Jim Harry earlier. Jim and I had to think, you know, the Open back in those days, would get on the cover if they liked the winner. So Ben Curtis won. He was like, you know, I don't know four hundred in the world wherever he was. And Jim and are like, man, this is some story. Ben Curtis won and open whoever heard of this guy? And Jim said, yeah, I went
to that trow met. Nobody likes the story. What do you mean this is like great, Ben Curtisy, Yeah, nobody likes. So you know, I got buried.
Finish your story and I want to come back to Ben Curtis. I have a story about that go ahead.
So then a few years later Todd Hamilton was playing the Ben Curtis role, and like Harry and I didn't even bother having the conversation.
Yeah, well that that when Curtis won, I was working out of the office as an editor. I did a two year stint just if I wanted to go down to the editing track because SI, they all the others looked around, realized they were all in their fifties and sixties. They didn't really have in the pipeline any young talent on the editings side. And so they paid for for me to live in New York and have a grand time, and I learned a heck of a lot about how
the magazine works. It was a great education, but ultimately the writing life is just more fun. And so when my tears was up, I was gone. But so I was in the office and I was in those editorial meetings and Ben it came you know what it came down to, Kobe Bryant had just had you know, had gotten involved in that that sexual assaulting in Colorado. And so it was Bill Colson was was the editor that
there was. I don't know if you've gotten the job permanently or yeah, yeah the job was it oh three hours way after the bake off, it was it was.
Like, oh, yeah, he was right.
Yeah, I was was confused when I was an intern. Anyway, Bill Colson was the other and so I remember saying to Colson, I said, you know, I know, Kobe's a huge story and all that. I said, it's going to be everywhere, and it's not really a feel good story. I was like, Curtis, all Americans when you say not.
Really a feel good story, like one of the most depressing sports stories, right exactly.
Yeah, that was an understatement, I said, Ben Cursis all American kid. No one saw this coming. He played lights out. I said, this would be unexpected and so popular. People would pull us out of their their their out of their mailbox and they would love to see this. And of course Kobe was on the cover. And a couple
of weeks later, Colson came into my office. Was very rare, I mean maybe happened three or four times the whole time I was that whole era, and he said, you know, we probably should have met Ben Curtis on the cover like that Kobe. That Kobe cover was depressing and no one bought it at the new stand and uh, it's like you might have been right. It was like the only time I ever said anything like that to me. And it was kind of funny because yeah, it was
something magical about it. You know, there's the and Curs actually had a decent career. You know, he went on to win some more events. He wasn't complete fluke, but anyway, yeah, that the Open is an interesting one. Also, going back to six member, Sergio showed up wearing all yellow and it became like this running joke. I know, Sergio, it's easy to make fun of him, but that was an ode to the Tour de France, which was ending that day and I think, as a Spanish guy was gonna win.
And I always feel compelled to defend Sergio. It's not that they had horrible fashion sense. It was like, you know, the leader of the Tour de France, where it's a little yellow jersey and anyway, just makes me laugh because I think, didn't he play with Tiger on Sunday and like Tiger was like rolling his eyes out and maybe that was on the driving range, but it became like this thing, how ridiculous.
Sergio was was with de Marco. I'm that's not sure, but yeah, it was.
Anyway, not really.
Uh, And of course this comes up every year. You know what side of the draw and you know, for those who don't follow this open closely, uh, not the Masters because that's got a small field, but definitely the US Open, the PGA Thursday Friday, one hundred and fifty six players, they go off two t's and the guy. The players like it because they think it's already evens out the weather over time because it's all more concentrated.
But the British Open, they have a big field and they got a lot of light, and they go literally from six point thirty to three thirty.
At starting times, not finishing time. Starting it's unbelievable.
So yeah, from starting for starting times, so you can have howling, lousy, terrible weather at eleven thirty and then by three thirty it could be completely benign. Queens are soft, there's not a mark on him. It's just totally different conditions than what happens typically in the United States. So every year, come Friday evening dusk, there's a lot of
discussion what side of the draw are you on? And I've never done a study but I'm sure guys who have favorable draws tea times Thursday Friday often wind up due winning, But by Sunday no one's even remembering it. In fact, in game stories, I never even think to note it, now that I'm saying it, I don't know. Of all the various majors I've covered their opens I've covered, I can't recall one time where that was even a factor and how I thought about the tournament, even though it probably should be.
Justine Reid could tell you in forensic detail about who can't missus. Patrick Reid made a careful study of this. I would also like to know that we're in the fifty first minute of this podcast, Michael. If any people have come this far, they surely have made a study of the draws at the open. Yea casual fan is not this deep into this podcast.
Well, what I'd like to say to the listeners, Okay, they already know this, Alan, Who's going to win this thing?
It's so obvious. I mean, this is not like a secret choice. This is like Justin Johnson, who are you thinking of? Well, Cheffler, Scheffler, Well, god, yeah, I saw a funny stat on Twitter today. I can't or who tweeted it, but he finished, you know whatever, top five again at the Scottish Open, one half a million dollars, and his average earnings per start this year went down.
He's already made nineteen million dollars between the ropes. I mean, obviously this is the new ear of elevated events and all that, but it's incredible.
The Scottish Open is a PGA Tour event and a deep tour event. Yeah, and live guys could could live guys play in this event because of some.
Why I don't think there are any live guys there.
They've do warnant live guys playing this event.
They given up their their membership on both two tours. Yeah, they were able to They were able to play, you know, from last summer until this spring on the European Tour because they had filed this arbitration case and until it got adjudicated that they were allowed to compete. But that was what that was the resolute that was the the resolution came down masters week saying that the tour could suspend them and could uphold their fines, and that all those guys just dipped out. So yeah, no, I mean
Scotty Scheffler. But this is interesting about Scotty Seffler. Like he's he has what eighteen straight top twelve finishes, maybe an all time record, but he's only won twice. Now. The consistency is incredible, and his wins have been big ones, but considering he's there every single week, you'd actually like to see him pick off a few more ws. So it's funny how expectations changed. I mean, two and a half years ago, no one never heard of Scotti Scheffler.
Now he's playing at a level few have ever achieved in the history of the sport, and yet here I am critiquing that he hasn't won more. So that's some you know, talking about the mental game and what Rory's facing. I don't know if Scheffler seems unbothered by stuff like that, but to be there every single week and not get it done sixteen times in this run, it's like, Okay, I feel like I feel like he needs another big win.
Maybe it's a Tour championship. He doesn't necessarily to be the Open, but he needs he needs another big win here to to put an exclamation point on this incredible consistency.
You know who doesn't agree with you. Who Scottie shuffer.
Yeah, I don't think so.
And that's and that's the secret to his success, you know, I don't. I just think he doesn't care that much. I think he really really cares, but not to degree that where there's just something different like the thing that we're talking about with Arnold and I think we're talking about with Rory as well. I don't think that's it. I think the emotional hurdle that he got through by winning that Masters when he cried like a baby in his wife's arms before Tiger cries after. But this guy
is crying something warn't it. But then he got through it and he did it, you know, and he's half a Southerner and he won them. You know, Texas is such a thing for Augusta. Of course, you know, grow Andy Watkins and that whole thing. But the fact that he got through that, and it's like I can sleep walk in top three, so I can sleep walk win. He doesn't have to do anything special. And Rory, I think is push him is a special special special It's got to be special, but it doesn't have to be special.
But try telling yourself that when Tiger's texting you all the time, telling you it's got to be special. But you see, did you see Big Jack after the Memorial Tournament when he you know, he had another bad Sunday for Rory. This was no it was a great win for Rory, of course, of course, but it was no great last round. It was a great last two holes. It was a bad last round. Yeah, under very tough conditions. Blah blah blah blah blah. But when he came. But Memorial,
it could have won that too. Probably Page said it should have won it. And Big Jack standing there and he says, you know, give me a call. Now, it's not the time or the place, but give me a call. I don't know what they talked about her. If they talked about it, go ahead.
Yeah, that was kind of ruthless by Jack. I mean he's basically saying, you're a head case man. What's wrong with you? Call me like that was? I mean, I know it was meant to.
I think I don't think it's a I think it's more like, uh, something's wrong, and I think I can see it. I know, I know I'm mechanical, and I'm not saying Jack. I mean it might show up in mechanics. Now, I know I have friends who know a lot more about golf than I do who don't agree with this. Like when they talk about my putting, they say, oh, it's mechanics, mechanics, mechanics, But actually I know it's not because I can putt pretty well in a practice putting green.
It's when it matters and when it goes wrong. And some of the drives. I mean, we've seen Rory driving for fifteen years now. He drives more than that. No, no, he drives it incredibly well. He had some of the worst drives I've ever seen a world two of the worst. Two of the worst drives I ever seen a world class driver. Not many tour players can hit it offline, but these were wildly offline with bad swings. How does that happen?
Yeah, yeah, it's it's the the things that don't show up on a launch monitor is what makes this sport so fascinating. You know, it's just it's just an X ray of the soul, and.
That launch monitor is killing these guys. I really believe it. I know that sounds like, oh, rolled, he grew up in the blow bah blah blah blah, But I really believe launch my Brian Harmon was watching Truvino hit balls at the Open last year at Saint Andrew's Pure in one shot after another, making that eighty two or three years old whatever he was, eighty one eighty two, making
that ball do whatever he wanted it to do. And Brian Harmon's like, and Brian Harmon is a damn good golfer, and Brian Harmon's like, man, And I'm talking him right there in Spice Man. Just watching Trevino you can see it's just all in his body, and you know, I'm just looking at that machine after every swing. I think it's just a weird way to play golf.
Yeah, that's interesting, that's different.
But if your whole culture is telling you, I mean manage you showed up at a at in a prestent with a portable typewriter, you know it'd be crazy.
I kind of want to do that. That'd be awesome, Although honestly, you're more like you're a more likely candidate.
Michael Gary Smith Allan. I had this colleague who was, you know, amazing, Gary Smith, and we were once comparing notes. He was having a hard time going to the lapto or whatever. The color sings bacbook and I said, yeah, I can't. I can't write on it. And I said, I've had to get this extra what do you call it? Like an external keyboard? Yeah, at the right angle. And Gary Smith, who can write circles around. I was like, you're a head.
Case that story. That's amazing, and then I got over it.
But anyway, you get over it. But you also are a culturated to what everyone's song, your quote should be doing.
Yeah. Interesting, All right, Well we're gonna we're gonna be Yeah. I think I think we're good for now. We will try and podcast when you're overseas, Michael, but it is very Wi Fi dependent, and as we both know that the water pressure over in Jolly England and the WiFi is unreliable, so.
I gotta get I think I've got my mechanics figured out here. I all pod as often as you wish.
Well, if if we can, if we can make it happen, if we can make it happen, we'll do it. I'm saying like, it depends on your Wi Fi. But for the listeners out there, we're going to try, Michael.
Well, eight hour time difference, how does that work for you when it's eight pm for me, what is it for you? Noon?
So that's fine, that's good. Yeah, well yeah that's that.
You can wake up and watch oping off. That's pretty cool.
Well I have to wake up early though, yeah, you know it's for the start of it. But anyway, all right, well this was this was This is fun told some old stories haven't thought about a long time. So thanks for drawing those out. Michael safe journey over to cool. Uh the listeners out there, we appreciate you sticking with us, and we'll be back in your ears.
Paying the bills running Alan, who's paying the bills run here? Oh?
Yes, we should probably mention. Dormy Network or Dormy Network is a series of private clubs that's different than the Dormy Workshop, who are our friends and the sponsors of this podcast. Dormy Workshop. They make beautiful leather goods, headcovers, stash bags, all kinds of fun stuff. If you go to Firepitcollective dot com and you click on the Pit shop tab, you'll see some special things they've worked up for us, Or you can just go to the Dormy
Workshop's website and see their full compliment. But we've missed Father's Day, but surely there's someone you love who's going to be celebrating occasion soon. Or treat yourself, of course, my daughter says whenever we're I'm saying I shouldn't have any desert night says, treat yourself, like okay, where just to live by? So, yeah, there's a Dormy is a great supporter. We thank them for their we're helping us keep the lights on here at the Firepit Collective.
So for Michael bamber that that's the Dormy Workshop, Dormy works up. Yes, but then there's another thing, the Dormy Network.
Yeah.
Yeah, they're not related.
No they're not not to my knowledge.
No, no, So does the Dormy Network help us out to No.
I regret even saying their their their name out loud, but.
Maybe maybe now they maybe now they will.
Yeah, if they want to come on and be a sponsored, great that we'll just say thank you Dormy. But anyway, uh, For Michael Bamberger, this is Alan Schiffle Like that was a fire drop podcast and thanks for listening. This is the end.
I'm bet big and I played the wind made a fortune. When my ship came in, I ran the table, never thought I could fall. Then the win hit made, lack of canon the ball, and no, I can't shake this, losing the stream.
Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got dot head, can't get them out. Trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got of thoughts in my head, can't get them out, Trying not to think what I'm thinking about.
