It's a big deal when the Women's Open goes to the citadels of the game, whether it's oakmant Or or pebble Beach, it elevates the entire events and of course they these players deserve that they should play on the best playing fields, and to finally get a Women's Open here is just really cool.
I got thoughts in my head. Can't get him, John not to think what I'm thinking about.
Count thoughts.
Can't get them out, John not to think what I'm thinking.
About all right, Hello, Welcome back to the Fire Drill Podcast, joined by Matt Janella and a very special guest, a gent named Kevin Price. KP and I go back basically to birth our errands for friends. We were born three weeks apart. There are photos of us swaddled next to each other in a bassinett, lifelong best friends. At my wedding in nineteen ninety nine, Kevin met Matt Janella for
the first time. They became great friends. The three of us and Sundry others have had many golf adventures from Australia to Ireland, to Scotland to Pinehurst, Abandon and Kevin is a generational ball striker claims should be scratched is probably a plus two. That's a sore subject we'll save
for another podcast. He owns his own financial services firm, but Caddie's out at Pebble Beach mostly because he's the biggest golf nerd around and he just wants to touch the grass and sniff the towels and do whatever else he does to satisfy those urges. So Kevin has a bag at this week's United States Women's Open Championship, and we thought we'd preview the course, the tournament, the players. keV, thanks for doing this my pleasure.
Guys happy to be here as I am happy to be out at the Pebble Beach Golf Links for this Women's Open.
I think it's going to be a really special week out there.
It's Monday evening of tournament week. You're you're coming in hot from a practice round with Mackenzie Han, young player at University Wisconsin, or you have some roots and tell us about Mackenzie and the golf course. I know you had a special guest in your practice round pairing today, Like you just set the scene for the listeners, right hold on.
Can we please can we take a second like, first of all, like I haven't said a word yet, okay, jomp In Matt, Sorry, Like, can I at least address Ken Well, like you'll have your part of hogging the microphone? Are you? Like, oh my, I'm trying to throw it to the guests, But I mean you're not doing him at like even close to justice. Kevin Price. Yes, one of the greatest gifts you've ever get me is my friendship to Kevin Price with Kevin Price, which is and
we've been all over the world together. We're we're like better friends than you and I now like we like we like leap frog friendships.
Like it was like child, it's a tie, it's a tie.
It's a tie. But I lean that way after you're so very rude intro And by the way, Kevin is one of those scratch golfers that are actually sandbagging scratch golfers. When guy rocks up, he's like, oh, I'm scratch, you know whatever. To your point, he's literally a plus two plus three. He's two time club champion at Bayonet and black Horse.
I mean, but also he won the gross and the net in the same year.
That was but see that, that's what I'm talking about like you didn't even you just like YadA YadA, you blurred right through. You've got some sort of date or something like, can we just have a conversation now?
You guys are too kind. I appreciate that. Let's be honest. Those Bayonet Club Champs, we're not exactly the deepest fields in golf. But I've played I've played pretty well those two times. So I'll take how many Kevin?
How many? How many? How many times have you caddied at AT and T?
I've done six at and T prorams.
And then you've grown up obviously, how many? How many times? How many? You know? How many years have you been caddying at Pebble?
I started in twenty fifteen in the spring of twenty fifteen, have probably averaged about ninety five loops a year in those eight and a half seasons.
And what's your low round at Pebble.
Seventy one from the blue season.
So and US Opens. Obviously, you've spent a lot of time assessing setup, walking yardages, being the caddy you are and the player you are, and the analytics sort of sort of approach you take to golf in life. You've you're well aware you're well versed on sort of what is the setup of amends you open for you?
Yeah, yeah, so, I mean I think the two key differences are the primary or first cut of rough would be a little bit shorter this time compared to twenty nineteen. Although I'll tell you guys, after the winter we had and all the rain that visited its glory upon the central coast of California this winter, that grass is doing just fine, thank you very much. It is healthy, it is dense, it is grabby, it varies a little bit.
So reading the lies will be a key part of the sort of the full swings and the short shots around the greens out of what I call the regular rough. That's you know, sort of the two to three and a half inch rough, that's what we think of as rough.
It's just it's dense and it's gravy.
Every now and then you might catch it jumper out of it and the ball just goes sailing with no spin. I mean, so reading the lies is going to be key. And then on the margins of the golf course, on some of the holes, the pebble and the usga have grown up some rather long more fescue type sort of long blades that lay down, and if they're if you're across the grain of that grass as it lays, or certainly into it, I mean you're probably coming out essentially sideways.
So it's graduated in the sense that you've got a little bit of a sort of fringy cut on the edge of the fairways. Then you've got the primary rough that's playable but really challenging, and then the long stuff that's just flat out penal.
And compared to AT and T, no night.
And day, much gnarlier in terms of the rough, no question, much much gnarlier, I mean, honestly because of the amateurs in the field, and I think the AT and T has done a nice job of improving the level of play among the emitters and the AT and T over the last several years credit SJ. But yeah, it's the AT and T is sort of like resort conditions plus a little bit of speed on the greens. I mean, it's really not that different, to be honest with you.
For the Open, we've got a number of fairways that are now meaningfully narrower.
So I would point to numbers.
Four, six, eight, eleven, fifteen and sixteen are all pinched in from one side or both so that the extent of the short grass is smaller. And then of course the rough, if you do find it, is gnarlier than an AT and T.
Without doubt, Matt, can I ask a question? Or do you want to keep hogging the mic? What's your comfort level here?
For?
I have one to follow up to that, like green speeds, Thank you allan, But we'll get to you to say the green speeds versus AT and T, Like what what is the buzz? What's the talk?
Like?
What's the anticipation of how how quick they'll be?
Honestly, here on Monday night, I think it's a little too early to say they're not they're not crazy fast right now, but we still have, you know, two full days to go, and we've been you know, we've had this sort of interior California heat wave the last few days and that tends to suck the marine layer the fog in right just in the first you know, half mile or mile of the California coastline, I mean, from Pebble today, I'm looking sort of toward where I live,
which is just maybe two miles from the from the beach and it's bright sunshine, and yesterday we had visibility problems at Pebble during the practice round. I mean there were some shots where I was lining McKenzie up for a tea shot and we were working off the mow lines on the tea box because we simply could not see targets out there. The upshot of that, for the for the softness and the speed of the golf course is that it's still still a little bit soft and slow.
But I mean that is by us open standards. I will say today this afternoon, with the fog being a little bit higher in the sky, I did sense the greens starting to firm up a little bit. So you're starting to get some ballance on the greens.
Alan take it away, Yeah, pour some out for the golf fans home. Have to listen to the marine Layer conversation for four more days after La Country Club.
But don't if I don't my loo mall Natty's koozy.
By the way, Oh nice, I like that. Yeah, it's it's so funny. I mean, July here is in in Carmel, Pebble Beach is so cold and just I'm walking around town with my dog and all the tursts and shorts and T shirts are freezing, their teeth are chattering, and that one's complaining. And it's supposed to be summer. I mean, our summer is in the falls, as some people know, that's when the sunshine really comes. So but I like
the uncertainty of the weather. You know, you may get a bright sunny day, the usually the winds will follow and that can change the green speeds quickly. But people, I don't know if people remember how low the scoring was for the US Open twenty nineteen. I mean, the men really kind of tore up Pebble Beach. It's just such a petite golf course for those kind of players. And the t's that the women are using this week
are around sixty five hundred yards. I mean, it's very similar to kind of the Golds or maybe one of the Combo tests. I mean from Kevin, you see a lot of golf out there. How satisfying is it for you to see the course play sort of the way it's supposed to, where you have some longer clubs in and the players have to navigate with a little bit of finesse And thought.
Yeah, in two practice rounds now, I've seen some headcover. Headcovers come off for second shots into these part fours, and you know, not for McKenzie, to be perfectly honest, she hits it. She hits it pretty hard. But i the people we played with in the first couple of days here, it's there are some approach shots that that play long for sure. I mean, it's it's a test.
One of the truisms of the Pebble Beach golf Links is the is the greens are very small, right, and so if you if you get gnarly rough and small greens and some firmness and some wind and a golf course that's going to play long ish at least for at least a big chunk of this field.
That's a test.
I mean, that is a real challenge, and you've got to golf your ball from beginning. You Matt major premium on playing from the short grass on on, you know, both in terms of approach shots into greens and also if you do happen to miss the green you want to miss where there's a little apron and you can you can putter chip it off of short grass. I mean, it's it's it's the variability and the outcomes from the
green side rough is extremely high. I mean, it's it's enough in spots to make very very good players look silly from time to time. So it's yeah, you want to you want to keep it on the short stuff without a doubt.
Go back for a second, and how whose bag are you on? And how did this come about? And give us a little you know, give us a bio of who you're catting for this week.
Yeah, Mackenzie On is an absolutely delightful twenty four year old graduate of the University of Wisconsin, Madison, where in a in a golf god's work in Mysterious ways twist, I went to graduate school, as Alan hinted at earlier, and I have fully and comprehensively indoctrinated our seven year old daughter into the ways of Badger fandom with her miscellaneous.
Clothing doc stuffed stuffed Bucky.
Badger's signage, et cetera. So the fact that when I first got Mackenzie's email after being connected by some Pebble Beach by the Pebble Beach team. So to back up a little bit, A few weeks ago, a smallish number of caddies here received a text message asking if we would be interested in working the open in case the opportunity presented itself, and expecting something like seven to twelve local caddie requests to come to pass. So the only challenge there for me was to not be the first
guy to respond over enthusiastically. So I waited to be the second and said, yes, that would be great. I would be happy to do that. So I got an email from Mackenzie saying that she had gotten my name
from Pebble. And of course the first thing you do in twenty twenty three is google Mackenzie on and the headline that popped up was the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel newspaper article about her qualifying in thirty six holes sectional qualifying, making it through a playoff with a birdie to on the deciding hole in the playoff to to punch her
ticket to Pebble Beach. And I mean, it's just like it's too good to be true, right, I mean, I would have taken any bag and would have been absolutely delighted to be a part of this and would have done my very best for any player.
But this is truly a match she made in golf heaven.
Yeah, we certainly, yeah, Oh, I mean yeah, I hope she thinks the same thing. But I mean, i'll tell you what, I'm pretty stoked about it. We actually had her parents and and swing coach over for dinner here last night, and Claire had a little handmade card that said, good luck Mackenzie, I can't wait to watch you play golf. And it's like, you know, don't make me cry, boys, this is some sweet stuff. I absolutely love it. We're having a blast. And she's a good young player. I mean,
you know, she's one of these people. You watch her play and you watch her alongside some of these other pros were were paired with in the practice rounds. You see what's happening on the practice tee before the rounds, and there's no reason she can't play at this level.
She's long, she's strong, she's young. She rolls it beautifully on the greens, and you know, it's just I think this week is just a little mental fortitude, a little emotional resilience, and probably a little rub of the green from time to time.
But she can do it. She can play here. There's no doubt about it.
You know, I loved that the last US Open, Tiger said, you know, there's nothing like Pebble Beach for a US Open, you know, just there's just something special and kind of magical about it. And for you, Kevin, to be inside the ropes at a national championship, have you had any any kind of g whiz moments where you've really felt the grandeur of this event.
Yeah, when you see.
All the banners and the signage and the grandstands and the player hospitality is not bad. We're in there this week, so that's nice. That's a nice little perk. Yeah, it's definitely special. And I will say as the father of a young girl who likes golf and is just kind of getting started in the game, and we've ushered her in very gently and gradually, I would say, slowly.
But it's ever since this.
Event was announced, I thought, what a joy it's going to be to take Claire out there to see the best female players on the planet play what we lovingly refer to around here as Mama's golf course because her mother, Roslyn, worked for the Pebble Beach Company for a dozen years and so the family has a real connection to that
piece of land. And now not only does Claire get to go out and see the best females players on the planet and now Mackenzie Haun, someone she has spent some time with last night, but she gets to see her dad, you know, work in the event, and that is really cool to me. I mean, that's a real special treat for this family. And of course I hope it inspires her to sort of want more of golf. But whether it does or doesn't, it's a pretty remarkable
opportunity to have to have all these women here. And I mean, look, it's one of the world's greatest places for golf. I mean, I just don't want to hear any counter arguments to that claim. It's the best walk in golf. The three of us and Sundry others have seen a lot of spots, and a lot of really remarkable, wonderful, delightful spots that we would all go back to.
In a second.
But there's no walk in golf like Pebble Beach. There simply isn't. It is absolute purity, and the golf course has never looked better. I've never seen it look better. This winter helped.
You know. The guys and gals.
Who grow the grass around here are exceptionally good at what they do. But I think Mother Nature has given us a really special tread this year with with a golf course that's just absolutely ready for prime time. And I think from assuming that the fog stays high enough from from the blimp or from whatever aerial camera had me, sea musters up this weekend, this place is going to look really, really good.
And it is such a company town. It's such a such a small geographic area. So just driving around, seeing the courtesy cars, seeing the players. Last night, I took my kiddos to see the new Indiana Jones movie. We're driving into the mall del Monte Mall and Monterey, which some people know, and I saw a Curtisy cars like, oh my god, that was j y Co And I got all excited, you know, and they're like, who is that said she's the best player in the world.
Are you kidding me?
Like, you know, it was just kind of just it was just funny. So yeah, there's there is. You can feel it around town. I mean, the street are packed and uh and there there's just an energy that that's really fun. It's kind of like I mean, you guys have both been over to some of these events that opens in Scotland where there's just one little town that's like the host whether it you know, I think like bumping into people on the street all the time those
weeks and this week it's kind of similar. So that just adds a whole other kind of fun layer to it. Just just the feeling in the air. It's definitely people here excited. This is we should mention. You know, this has been talked about for a long time. You know, the Pebble Beach Company it kind of slow played it.
I mean, there was talking about bringing the Women's Open here I think in twenty seventeen originally, and it kept getting bumped back and there was a certain amount of negotiating involved, and so there's been a long run up and a lot of anticipation and you know, there's a record number of qualifiers. Everyone wanted to be part of this.
It's just it's a big deal. When the Women's Open goes to the citadels of the game, whether it's oakmant or Pebble Beach, it elevates the entire events, and of course these players deserve that they should play on the best playing fields. To finally get a Women's Open here is just really cool. And I saw a picture on social media, a bunch of past champs, how playing golf at Moniti. Penin's a country club today. You know, this has turned into a gathering and it's sort of a
celebration that transcends even just this one tournament. So it's special and it's cool that we get to experience it.
Yeah, absolutely, it's interesting. You mentioned the energy around town. It's probably greater than the energy on the golf course right now, just the first couple of days because there are no fans on site until Wednesday, so the practice rounds are very quiet. You know, there are a few people out there that sort of player guests, essentially very few, but that allows us to kind of, i think, build toward Thursday, especially for a young player McKenzie.
She's not played on this stage before. There's no getting around that. She knows that.
I'm not telling you all anything. She doesn't know, right, but to sort of build into it, and I'm sensing sort of every team we get to she's getting more and more comfortable.
And then on Wednesday, we'll.
Get some fans on the grounds and and we'll start to feel the gallery a little bit and what what it'll be like to play with the people and uh, and then you know, the light turns green on on Thursday and I think I think she's going to be ready.
But it's kind of a.
Slow build out of Pebble early in the week until we get more more bodies on on the golf For.
Us, I'm I'm sort of just commenting on a lot of things that you guys we're just talking about. I you know, Pebble, I'm a I'm a NorCal guy. You guys are you guys are locals right, Like I mean, you guys, this is you know, Alan, we know your story and working at Pebble to get your job at
Sports Illustration. The whole We've been out there with some really uh in some incredible situations and had some incredible experiences with friends and family or friends that feel like family, and I mean we've had it's just been this, you know. Just so I'm so grateful for like being able to have such an intimate relationship with a place like Pebble Beach, even if it's throwing balls for dogs at the beach
below the golf course itself. So there's just this reverence and appreciation that we get to actually play on that land or walk that land, while people are playing, and I think it's really nice. You know, over the years, AT and T played in February sometimes has bad weather the Cross. You know, some players don't like Poe or I don't like the weather, it doesn't fall, like, doesn't
fit in my schedule. I just think it's and that's why I've always gravitated to the Pure Insurance where they're in the September and the Champions the Champions Tour, and the players that play on that tour seem to just
really appreciate and respect it more. They have this reverence about that experience that I don't always necessarily feel from like the PGA Tour players who are like so locked in on just like winning and numbers and you know, checks and you know, and and I think the reason why I'm so excited about a week like this is it's such a great fit for you know, like you talk about citadels An Open, you know US Open, Mike wand for all that he did for the LPGA and
the women's game in general, now you know, in charge of the USGA and the timing of this event and where he falls in the schedule, and like you said, Kevin,
like the condition of the golf course. It's just going to be this convergence of like a lot of really cool stuff and gratitude and appreciation and reverence and respect for quite honestly, you know what I would consider very clearly the number one public golf course in the country, and one could argue with you know, it's in the conversation for best best in the world for the amount of court and I just I'm just looking forward to like a week of that, you know, the imagery, the appreciation,
the respect, the reverence, the gratitude that you know, this is a place we can get access to. It's not for everybody, certainly gone way up in price, but they're on occasion people save up and get to get to walk this land and have this experience. And I'm really looking forward to what transpires.
Guys.
In eight and a half years of countying and Pebble, I have yet to hear anybody come off eighteen Green and say, yeah, I don't know.
It just has happened.
Incredible, It has not happened, right, And that's whether someone shoots five shots better than their handicap or fifteen shots worse, like, it's not in the end, it's not about that. It's it's just unmistakably special to everyone who's fortunate enough to walk through it. And you know, I've walked it a bunch. It hasn't gotten old yet for me, so you know, it's it's it's still it's still just good, solid fun to be out there.
It just is well.
It's a nice kind of palette cleanser coming out of La Country Club where it was. We don't have to rehash it in great detail, but people know it. It felt more like an Augusta national host where it was very exclusive and a lot of things happened behind the scenes that kind of dampened the enthusiasm. If you're on the ground, it was more about it. There's like a club event as opposed to a national championship and pebble beat. It is expensive, I know all three of us have
talked to us. We'd love to see the price go down. But the fact is anybody can play it. You can if you're a teenager. You can get a paper you know, paper route and they still deliver newspapers. I don't know. You can cut lawns like you know. You can give you a graduation president can be an anniversary president. I mean people do it all the time. Because my summer's
working out there. I used to as a car boy, I used to see it and it is expensive, but it's worth it, you know, the amount of money you're going to pay to play TPC Sawgrass or some crappy course out in the desert. You know, at least Pebble is a lifetime experience.
And the Shadow Creek Shadow Creek versus.
Yeah, so it's not quite the people's golf course like Beth Page you know, that's a special relationship, is essentially a muni and but it is one of the few courses that's in the conversation for the best in the world that anyone can play, and that that is special and that's meaningful, and it does create that that connection as a viewer because a lot of people who be watching on TV will have will have played it once or twice in their life, or their dad will or
there or someone they there intimate with U has a great Pebble Beach story and and that that does create an important connection at these events that I think is really you know, having been at us Opens, at Tory Pines and at Beth Page's, it's just fun to hear the crowd because they've had that same shot, they've been in that same bunker. They know that green better than some of the players because they've been playing there every
weekend for you know, twenty years. And there is a little bit of that around Pebble Beach, where there's a sense of ownership, and I just I just think that adds a whole other element to the to a big tournament like this.
Yeah, well, put, I fully agree, Kevin. What's the what was the situation in terms of practice round? What what you texted that Aniko was involved today?
Right? We just we had Anica Sornstam on the t sheet with us, and at one o seven. At one o seven, there was.
A you know, and and an amateur girl from Taiwan who's going to play at the University of Oregon. Her her ball was first in the air and right behind her was was the goat. I mean there just with high I'monica, right introducing yourself to me. Well, I know who you are, and thank you for introducing yourself. Very
nice to meet you. And so she played nine holes and then had had another commitment in the early evening, but she had she had her husband and son with her for those nine holes, and it was fun to watch them kind of interact with each other.
Little Will was carrying his mom around.
Just as much as Mike was, so he definitely had some some thoughts on how to play pebble, which is he's a good little player, so it's it was kind of.
Fun to watch that family dynamic.
And I mean Onica's hands around the greens, it's it's it's like, you know, Da Vinci on a canvas.
It's just it's just genius. It's just straight up genius. It's for a for.
A golf nerd like me, it was you know, my focus is McKenzie obviously, but you know, here and there you kind of catch on because little shots and practice round set up where you know, we're dropping multiple balls and playing different angles to different potential whole locations and all that and just a real joy to watch her.
Watch her practice or craft out there.
Had she hit it TD green, I mean.
Super solid right iron iron byron basically not not you know, let's let's be honest, father time is what it is. Not as far as she used to and not as far as the younger players generally out there, but I mean she hit it right where she was looking. She hit it right where she was looking, time.
After time after time.
And you know, you know when we're when we play with each other, it's like you catch one every now and then. That's got that to her caliber, compression sound to it. And one of the reasons we love the game is when you when you get that audio feedback. I mean, you know, it's like every single shot for all I guess, just right on the button. So fun to watch. I mean, you know, she's she's just good at golf. She's really really good at golf.
And what was the interaction between Anka and Mackenzie and was what were you were you trying to you know, like how did all that?
Yeah, yeah, you know you try not to sort of overfan it. You want to let Honica go about her business. And we and we did. We took we snapped a couple of pictures with the younger players and Onnica, and she was very gracious in doing so seventh te a couple other spots when they parted ways on the tenth tee, but the highlight for me was when Mackenzie absolutely bombed one down into the perfect spot on the ninth fairway.
You know, it's that sort of blind finish for her, it's going all the way down the hill.
But we knew it was we knew it was perfect.
And Anica chimes in from the back of the tea box, good drive. And so I leaned over to Mackenzie. I said, hey, that does that feel good to hear Anica sorenstamp.
So they good job. She goes confidence builder.
So you know, I think when when we're playing for something on Sunday afternoon, we might look back on that as a moment that kind of like almost freed McKenzie up to feel like, hey, I belong here right Anka saw it, she said it, I can hit it. I can hit it with them. Now we just have to get it in the hole. So it was cool to have her out there for sure.
Do you have any sense, Kevin, in the tournament rounds, how much you'll read putts for Mackenzie And what is that dynamic like because she's the player, she has her way of doing things, but you know the course so intimately and you have so much you can share. Have you talked about what she wants or are you still feeling that out?
I have, yes, and yes, a little bit of both.
I asked right up front before we even went out yesterday morning, because you always want to defer right to her process, and this isn't about me, this is about her. I don't need to try to be a hero out here. I mean, my job is to get her from me to B two C and where she wants and needs my items or my thoughts. I'm certainly happy to offer them, and I will do so to the best of my abilities. But I think I think I'm going to be reading
some putts. I think what we've kind of worked out is I sort of want to know what she sees first, and because so often you don't know how hard a player kind of wants.
To hit a putt right, and especially at.
Us open green speeds even today, but certainly expecting more so Thursday through Sunday. Is you know you can make it on four or five different lines, it's just how aggressive do you want to be with the pace? So I kind of want to see what she hear, what she sees first, and then all essentially sort of overruled out or different with that if I if I find a compelling reason to do so, and maybe we'll talk through the pace at which we want to hit the putt.
I mean, I do think that local knowledge helps at pebbles. There's no getting around the fact that there's some mysterious spots on some of the greens where what you see in the micro environment of that green complex itself is
one thing. But the way it sits on the big hill that runs from the ridgeline in the forest up top down to the ocean, it means that there's some there's some subtle but meaningful, kind of counterintuitive breaks, I think, And we've had a few of those already, where you know, her first read was it goes right, and I said, no, I think this one. You know, it's a little outside
outside the right, it's going left. And so but I'll only I'll only differ if I if I have very high conviction in that, because she's good at what she does, and and but there are some spots out there that simply are not obvious unless you've seen it or done it dozens of times. It just that's the way pebble works.
And isn't that why she Isn't that why she's having you as a caddy, Like I mean, I think it would fly in the face of the concept if why take a local caddy who's in this system, who's obviously been put forward as somebody who knows what they're doing, and then not utilize at least get an opinion.
Yeah No, and she and she will and we're working really well together.
Yeah, I'm saying that just kind of who it's kind of like. I think that's probably why she put in to have a look like I would imagine that would be. That's a huge advantage to a not only know you know the course, but also that you know what I played golf.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know I've I've had those putts, not in rounds that meant anywhere near near what what these rounds will mean to say the very least.
But it a read as a read a read.
You know, I've played it probably in the high twenties rounds at Pebblo career and and caddy to you know, close to four hundred times.
Now, I would say.
So, yeah, I mean they're there there. Look, I mean, let's be honest, nobody gets every read right every time. And there are some spots out there that that where there's subtle little ridges and if it's just a touch on this side, it will go that way and just to touch it.
So you know, it's tough and nobody's gonna make every put.
But but I think we've got a chance to We've got a chance to do some damage. I think I think we've got a pretty good thing working right now.
Hey, first of all, you're in the field, so you're you've got to you've got a chance to win it. And second of all, like our buddy could be on the bag, like you could win a women's Yeah.
Well, one shot at a time, Matt. We were just fun. We're gonna process. Yeah, the process. Yeah, no, anyway, it's yeah.
We should just take a second or just to just to thank our sponsor. By the way, we haven't even discussed Dormy Workshop. By the way, who is the family business based in Halifax, Nova Scotia KP. Are you familiar with Dormy.
I am, yeah. I see there's stuff.
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get that taken care of. But KP, this is I just think it's so cool that you that you're having this opportunity given you who you are, what you are, your knowledge of this golf course. Mackenzie's tied to wiscon like, this is just this is just stars aligned.
And yeah, it feels good. I think we've got we've got a little something going here and we're just going to golf's hard, right and this golf course, this setup is going to be challenging, but we are going to do our absolute best. And this kid can play. I mean she really can't play. I've seen enough golf at high levels to know it when I see.
It, and she's a striker and a half.
And you know, as I said, it's probably just going to sort of come down to, you know, can we keep it in the short grass often enough? And when we don't, because at some point it's going to happen for everybody in the field, You're going to play some shots out of the rough.
There is a little bit of there's a little bit.
Of the luck of the draw and the rub of the green in terms of the lie you draw a relative to the shot that you need to play in that circumstance.
So well, we'll hope for the best and do our best, that's for sure.
I mean some people may recall at the PG Championship the Michael Block story. One of the subplots was his caddy was this guy John Jackson, who is a spyglass Hill caddy and was kind of living his own dream. Have you had any interactions with John and is there something in the water there in the caddy shack, like what's on?
I've had some past interactions, but John, we've played golf together.
Great player, really good guy.
I like him a lot and not surprised to see him just you know, caddy has butt.
Off for Block at o'kill.
I have not been in touch with him since that event, so I I wish I could say I had been, but just busy, busy days.
So here's the thought exercise. Let's say that mackenzie wins this thing and asks you to become a full time caddy on LPG Tour. What's the answer. And let's say your wife Roz not listening to this podcast, so you can be candid.
This is a question for Rosalind. I mean you know that.
Yeah, let's get the boss.
Yeah, let's get her down the load.
Caddies, what are you in that relationship?
That's you know, I'm the I'm the endlisty. She's the admiral of the fleet, so she's in she's in charge of that. I mean, well, that's wild. I can't even one shot at a time.
Man, come on, fine, yeah, table that.
Yeah, I got a question, KP. So eight toll is a great example where yeah, right, So from the back te's you know, what are you what are you telling her? I mean there is there's only far back, as far back as you can go. So what was the yardage to the landing area that you would have suggested? And then what did she have in and what did she hit in from.
That particular yard?
Right, So we're we're one tea box up from the back box. We're not at the box where the blue te's or US open marker would be. We're essentially at the back of the next box up. So depending on the wind, whether it's down wind to cross wind.
It's very let's say no win.
Let's say like no wind, what do you what do you suggest?
No win? To twenty five to thirty max?
Okay? And then when she got up onto the clearing, you know how far did she have in?
We had high both days, hit shots essentially to the same spot and had in the mid to upper one nineties and hit six em yesterday she hit it to four feet above the hole.
And wow, made it, made it in the heart. Wow, yeah, made three on.
Some she's hitting six iron from one ninety little downhill if you're saying no wind, four or.
Five yards downhill and probably a club of help in the wind. So for McKenzie, her six iron is one eighty plus or minus. So it was it was probably a one, you know, one eighty two shot and she flushed it and it was right, it was all over. I was yelling at it to go in when it was in the air.
So get you do you feel comfortable in sort of her yardage breakdowns of normal flight right now from from you know, all the clubs in her bag.
It doesn't take a caddy long. Mattie.
I mean we were I've got my hand on the clubhead. She's thinking about in the wedge.
What's her wedge?
Stock wedge pitching wedge mid one twenties.
And stock seven iron.
Seven iron high one sixties close to seventy.
I think I think Mackenzie might be longer than me. How far is hit her driver.
The little I've gone out to eighty five to ninety. I mean it's not it's not in the air quite that long. No, guys, she can hit it. She can hit it.
She's she's Midwest strong is what she is. She's bad or strong.
And and and when you're when you are being asked for a read or when she says a spot, it's you know, she's a good enough putter where you feel like she's hitting spots and it's just a matter of speed and trust.
Maddie, You're you're tapping into my stress level a little bit because one of them one of the most stressful things to do is to read putts for people who hit their lines every single time, because if it misses, it's on you. And and she hits her lines, she hits her lines well, I mean, you know again, it's like she's.
Not a rope and nobody's perfect.
But I would say, on balance, she hits her lines really really well on the greens, and we've made a bunch the last couple of days, so we'll keep trying to do.
So.
How's her composure level in terms of dealing with the prestige of Pebble Beach and the idea that Anika was in her group? And is she feeling or looking or sounding overwhelmed or is she in the moment and and sort of capable.
She's not even close to overwhelmed, at least not outwardly. I see no signs of that whatsoever. I've thought of myself. You know, I was nowhere near that kind of player at that age, and it was never happening for me. But like you just envisioned yourself as a twenty four year old kid a year out of college who's played you know, a few many tour events and Illinois State Open, that sort of thing, and it is obviously a very very good golfer.
But how's it been on this stage before?
I don't know I would be you know, It's like my second high school golf match was at Pebble Beach back when it was Carmel High's home course, and in my prayer to the golf gods was to get the thing airborne off the first tea and that was, you.
Know, come on, like non league, high school golf, non event.
Right, this is the US Open. She seems cool as a cucumber. She's just like, you know, tell me where to hit it, man, what do you what's the number? And boom there it goes. So she's she's I don't know, pro, she's a pro.
She's a pro.
So a little bit about the Hawnen family while we're talking about her, Her brother Jordan, named after Michael Jordan, number twenty three by her Illinois parents' dad, big time Michael Jordan fan. I wanted to name the kid Jordan Michael Han, but mom overruled the middle name as just a wee bit too much. Jordan is sixth at nine and mondayed into the Valspar Championship and when he hit his first t shot, my understanding is he became the tallest player to play in a PGA Tour event ever.
So that's Mackenzie's two years older brother who also played at Wisconsin.
Might I add, wow, Yeah.
That's impressive. So the sick goes out there always have one question, what's the winning score going to.
Be, Oh, my gosh, you know, great question. I think so much depends on mother nature over the next few days. And I think, to your point earlier about this being a kind of almost spiritually important event for the game, and for the women's game in particular, nothing's going to
change that it already is because it's happening. The only thing that could put a damper on it at this point, I think, is if we get real visibility issues, fog delays and that sort of a bit of wonkiness in that sense where the golf course simply doesn't present itself in front of them, in front of the golfers the right way. But let's say that we don't get that much moisture in the air, and the thing dries out
a little bit and firms up six six under. There are birdies out there, right, I mean, Pebble has holes that are gettable. It's it has a few holes that are going to play long for some of these ladies, and it has some holes that are going to play short for the entire field. And if you hit it in the short grass, you can make birdies out there.
But the bogies and doubles.
Are that far away from the short grass, and uh, you know, you obviously have the cliffs in play on a number of holes.
But even even if you always keep.
It on on one form or another of green grass, it's if you're in the wrong green grass, it's going to play really, really tough. I think somebody's you know, more than one player is going to finish in red numbers. There are just too many birdies out there for people who are playing really good golf and hitting it, hitting it in.
Play talk talk me through eighteen. You know, in terms of how you know you're teen off middle of the tee box pro.
Pretty far back, pretty far back.
Actually the practice team markers have been not quite in the back back, but maybe a dozen steps short of that, and and off on the left slightly so okay, kind of on that little baby peninsula in the tea box.
And how how far is she hitting in? What what does she have in and where does she play to or what does she even consider it?
Like, yeah, we've we've we've laid up both days second shots. We've been right around the tree. There's been a headwind and moist, heavy air. So anytime you get that plus a little wind into you it's just not going to fly as far.
But we've I think we hit well.
We hit in the right ferry bunker today, so we had four and out of that really good, good low flo four iron and then and then uh fifty degree wedge onto the green. I don't so I think two and six will be reachable for a for a substantial chunk of the field.
You know.
Fourteen just flat out isn't and eighteen I don't think will be for very many. I just don't see that happening. I'm by no means am I saying nobody's going for it. Some will have a chance and we'll go for it and we'll probably reach it. But I think that's a it's a small minority of the field.
And two is a part five. Is interesting because that's how everyday players face it for the US Open, that they've converted into a part four.
So yeah, and the and the guys play it as a part five for the AT and T. But we're we're we're all the way at the back of that tea box. So it's you got to you gotta put a pretty good strike on that T shot to go for that one. But but that will happen, and some in the field will certainly be able to get there, but uh, for a non trivial part of the field, it's going to be kind of auto lay up.
I'm so happy for you, keV. I'm so happy for Mackenzie that the serendipitous situation in which she was looking for someone like you and got you as a guy who has had you on my bag on countless occasions and a lot of rounds at Pebble. She's she's very
lucky to have you. But you're also really I'm just really happy that you got this opportunity and that you're inside the ropes and all of the all of your hard work and the walks and all the Jabbroni amateurs you've had to caddy for over the years, has has lent itself to this opportunity to play, to carry a bag of real a real professional and watcher, navigate this, this golf course, this this cathedral, the citadel, as you said, Alan, and then under these circumstances just really cool. I'm I'm
I'm going to be captivating. I was already going to be really excited about what was going to transpire, and then to have you as a subplot to all of this is really cool.
I appreciate you, Maddie, thank you for that. I will say, you know, this is the first time I've carried a real tour bag, a legit tailor made staff bag, and I just want to say, for the listeners at home, those things are heavy. Okay, they are heavy, Like I'm in reasonably good shade. I pack a couple of bags around those golf courses a few dozen times a year.
Yeah, I'm a little creaky.
Tonight after two days of that bag, and it's it's like the diameter and the bulk and and yet and yet I am light on my feet because there's so much energy behind this and we're having a great time together. And I love the fact that our mom and dad are here and super supportive of her. They've walked every step of the way with us both days. And brother
flew in today, so he's going to be here. And it's it's a it's a joy to be a part of it, and a great event for Pebble, the community, the game of golf and the and the women's game in particular.
So I appreciate you.
Guys shedding some extra light on what's happened at Pebble Beach this week and can't wait to see how it plays out.
Well, that's that's well said. That that's a great ending point. I will say we we thought about having Mackenzie on this podcast. We want to put any extra pressure on her. We'll see how the week goes. If if she has a nice week, we're going to try and get her on Sunday. You need to talk about it, so that would be that would be fun as well. But I second everything that that Matt said, and it is a
special thing that we all get to share in. And I think the listeners will pick up on your passion for this, Kevin, and also your knowledge, and so we'll check in with you as the week goes on. I'm going to be I'll be out there because of kids' schedules and everything else. The one time I could take all my kidds on a little family adventures early part of this week, but I'll be I'll be out at the I'll be out there and write a big game story Sunday night and be there on for the third
round as well. And it's going to be I think it's just gonna be a great celebration like you said, and I actually don't mind the fog. I think I think the courses are more beautiful, dear when it's foggy, you know, with the cypress trees, and.
It's great, exactly great, great playing conditions with a little overcast. It really is kind of less exposure that everything looks really clear with a with a high gray sky. The problem yesterday was we couldn't see where we were hitting it. So as long as we stopped short of that, we're going to be absolutely good to go all week long.
Yeah, good stuff. All right, Well, this is another fire Drill podcast. That was Matt Janella, Kevin Price is Alan Shipnik. Thank you for listening. We'll be back in your ear soon and from Pebble Beach signing off. That's the end of this podcast.
Thank you.
I'm bed big lad the wind nay fortune with my ship game.
Man.
I ran the table, never thought I could fall, Then.
The wind and hit me. Lack of can in the ball.
And now catch agelists losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end street.
I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.
I got thoughts in.
My head can't get them out. Trying not to think what I'm thinking about,