Fire Drill 075: A Test, With Depth - Masters Round 1 Recap

what I'm thinking about. I got my head, can't get them that jo not to think what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan Ship, not a Backer Fire Drill Podcast. Delighted to have two thousand and six US Open Championjeff Ogilvie and Michael Bamberger here to talk about the very action packed day at the Masters. The leaderboard is stacked, most of the world's best players showed up. Of the course played soft that scores were low. There was a

little tiny bit of controversy. Let's just start there so we get out of the way. Michael, you've been a caddy on various pro tours. Jeff, we know your credentials. So there was this little incident in the fifteenth hole where it appeared that Brooks kept because caddy told another caddy in the group what club Brooks had just hit, and it was reviewed by the Master's committee. They were exonerated,

but video evidence is pretty clear. I guess there's there's the there's the letter of the law, and then there's what actually happened in real time in the real world. Because it's always been a thing on tour right where you'll tip the bags so like other players are, caddies can see what club you hit, and it's just sort of an accepted practice, but this was a little more blatant, and then they denied it, and this is turned into

a little stink cloud on social media. So I want to get both your reaction to what the mini controversy involving Brooks and his caddy, and then we can move on. What do you think, Jeff, I actually haven't seen the incident. Funnily enough, I must have been in another room, so I don't know. I can't come in on that incident. I do know that generally speaking, at least on Path three's every player in the group generally knows what every

other player is hit. We're not getting told. You're just work it out either by what it looks like or you kind of look, take a look at the bag and the six is in there, and the eights in there, and the seven isn't, so it's probably a seven. You know. It's part of the skill of playing golf is kind of trying to work out what club to hit, and part of the information is what the other guys hitting At nine nine percent at the time. You can tell

just by what the guy's club looks like. I mean, I can tell what someone sicks one looks like just by when he's hitting it from twenty os away. Usually I didn't see the incident. So if he's blatant, if ricky'splacently, is it still Ricky Ricky Elliot? Right, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I didn't see it, so I can't come in. But no one ever is telling people what club they're hitting. But I mean, if you're on TV, this spot is

on the side of the fairway. I mean, every the caddy's job is to put three fingers up for night on or three on or whatever. Whatever. I mean, It's like it's this lots of there's lots of ways to get that information with that being told. You know, I didn't, but I didn't say it so well. I mean, again you don't have the full context. But in the clip, it looks like he says five, you know, and he says it out loud. You know, it's not it's not it's not fingers, which might be more of a gray area.

I mean, he's actually speaking it out into the universe to another caddy. They're making eye contact. So would if you know, hypothetical, if a caddy were to tell another caddy out loud what club is player hit? Michael, would you consider that a violation the rules? Or is it not a big deal? You know, it flat out is

violation the rules to to say it. By the way, on the other side of things, somewhere along the line, Jeff, you you weigh in on this because you'll know far than I in my experience as a caddy and haven't been around the game something. It is absolutely completely fine for another player to walk over right to another player's bag and look in the bag to see what arn is.

That is not a breach about it. Now, to touch it is different, but just to look somewhere along the line that turned into some sort of breach of etiquette. And in my opinion, it's not a breach of etiquette, but just quick, Jeff, But you're you're about your opinion much more meaningful on that question. What is your opinion

on that narrow area, on that narrow question. Yeah, I mean it goes like you said it, as I said, the information's all there, generally speaking and looking picking in another player's bag, and generally, as I said, this is only really happening on path Threys. It's not often happening on the second shot in part five and Pathreys. Everyone's there's three bags generally, if it's three right hands and

they're all next to each other. You know, when you're standing there and you're you're you're kind of if you're a little bit confused about what club you hitting, you're sort of perhaps just looking at the guy's bag and you might not see every iron, but you can see the six, and you can see the eight and the towels over the other ones. And when he reaches into the bag and the six and the eight are still there, and then you know it's a seven. But that's what

you're standing right next to the bag. That's just using the information that's there. And as I said, most of us can just look at the club that look at the loft when he's over the ball, and you can kind of tell it anyway. But it does, as you said, it does get grayer and grayer and it ends up very dark if it's blatant sort of shouting across the tea. I do remember there was an incident. This was at Avenel and the Kemper Open. I think in about two thousand.

I was not here yet, but Greg Chalmers left hander and his whole career because the left hander stays on the other side of the tea his whole career, people would walk all the way across the tea to look in his bag, and he just one day he just finally had enough and he's like seven iron guys like he just for fifteen years, it's his people have been walking across the tea to peek in his bag and he just obviously hit a bad shot or something. It was just annoying, he said, and he got a two

sharpenlly for him. Um, I think yeah. I think that was the year before I got out here, so I think it was two thousand. Um, so there's precedent, I guess for a thing, and it's it goes from goes from like you said, completely part of the game and not even close to a preach of etiquette, um to just part of golf. Very white at one end and it's very black at the other and there's a gray area. And as I said, I didn't see this specific incident, and it sounds like it's somewhere between one end and

the other end. Um. Yeah, we don't have all the context. Maybe you still one said Ricky, you know what time we can have breakfast tomorrow? He said five? Like you just you don't know. There's there's things that we're not pretty. Maybe the spotter for CBS was putting his hands up in the air saying what what what? What was that? What was that? And he was yelling that passed him

or something. I don't know, like yeah, yeah, well we'll get more information tomorrow probably, But because every caddy has to every caddy has to give, what I has to is kind of requested by TV to signal the spotter on the side of the fairway what the guy's hitting. So so I'm finchy can what he's hitting into the grain. I mean that happens on every single hall on a coverage, and that's probably happening for almost every group in the Masters, where the caddy is having to signal to somebody what

he's hitting. So it's kind of the informations out there. Anyway. Did you see it yourself? I've seen the replay, yeah, and uh it's it's it looks like the caddies are communicating, but as Jeff is saying, he could be talking to someone on the other over the caddy's shoulder and they're both kind of walking and moving and it's like two ships passing. So um, but they all the players and caddies were interviewed by the committee. The committee exonerated them,

so we know what the Masters. They tend to side on on with the players in a gray area. So it's an interesting subtlety to the sport, I guess. But um, let's talk about this leaderboard because it is stacked like uh I was. I wrote my story about Victor Hoveland. I've always everyone loves Victor Hoveland. He's like he's like a golden retriever, you know, he just bounds around with a big goofy smile. And he's always had a spectacular long game, and he's really been working hard on his own.

His rare to have a world class player who has a glaring weakness like Hovelin's chipping and pitching was But he spent the last three months revamping his action and he made some incredible says. I don't know if you guys saw what he did on the tenth hole. He was short sighted, had had to go over the bunker downhill side. I'll god and Tiger Woods are waiting to bear witness against him, and he had it to like four feet. I thought that was the shot of the day.

And after shooting thirty one on the front nine and he was off and run and he kind of he set the pace at minus seven. And then of course Kepa Cottam and John rom Jeff, you've talked that length with us through the years about how difficult the first green is. Scariest first green probably on planet Earth along with Oakmont. John Rom four puts the first green and then plays the next seventeen holes in nine under in like a controlled rage. And so three guys at seven

on a soft golf course. But what did you think of the leader or Jeff Oh yeah, it's everyone, and I mean it's it's incredible. Everyone played well. Ram score is nuts. When you come in you double the first, you don't shoot many sixty five to the double on the first. It looked a bit soft. I mean I was out there a little bit today and I walked and looked gettable. The pins didn't look easy, not the ones that I looked out and study them all, but they didn't look super easy. And maybe there was a

little bit of fire. I mean, if if August it was at its fieriest. I didn't think Victor's kind of hit that pitch on ten that he did. I think there's been years where that was not a possible shot, but he came up with it. Um. I I was out there till one or two o'clock and came back and watched the broadcast. I thought Keptkin looked as good as I've ever seen him. Look, he just looked the best player in the world today, to be honest. He just looked like it was easy. And he bokeep thirteen

I think, didn't he and still shot sixty five. I mean, that's that's as bad as doubling the first. Yeah, it's I thought he looked amazing. I mean Cam Young, I think it was probably not talked about enough for the tournament. I mean, I think Cam Yunk's built for this tournament. I mean Xander Lowry, I mean, Larry's just sitting there like no one's even talked about him. I mean, Jason Day seems to be back looking like he did a few years ago. Yeah, it's pretty and everybody's there, I

mean even Rory. It'll be fair. I mean, we know he's probably going to shoot. He's probably gonna average under seventy for the next three days. That's his tradition here, you know what I mean. And if it gets really really hard, I mean less than seven under could win this tournament with a forecast. I mean it's probably unluckly, but I mean if it gets like I did in O seven there on the Saturday in OH seven, there's not gonna be many people shooting under par on Saturdays.

So massive advantage of the guys who sort of you want to go red before you go black. Right, he as far red as you can go before it gets really really narly. And when you get a north wind here and he gets cold, it's going to be incredibly tough. So nothing's been decide, but it's a really impressive leader board. I mean, I think if you are running a tournament and you had this at the end of day one and you looked at it, you'd be pretty happy with

the result of your leader board. Yeah, and you didn't even mentioned Scottie Scheffler, who's right there too, defending shout trying to go back back. He actually looked awful today, to be honest, for him, and he probably was the most impressive today because he looked like he left about five or six shots out there and he's only three back and you know he's not going to put like that four days in a row. So I mean he's in a great spot. Jeff, do you ever look at

Scottie Sheffer think he looks great? No, that's fair. But the shot tracer is so good for Scottishcheffler. If you didn't have shot tracer, you can't work out how he does it. But shot tracer seems to match up the football. It all seems to make sense when you see the ball take off straight and now this little drawers a little fate. It's a great thing for Scheffler and he just seems to I mean, he doesn't handle it. He

was getting pissy. I mean, he comes off at the end and says, I handle my emotions really well and all that he does. He was certainly like pretty frustrated out there, it seemed, but he seems to hit a good shot out like he's one of those guys who seems to just use that frustration and get more focused or get better on the next tile. And that's the sign of the best player on when I was telling

the people we had dinner with it. Um, when you're playing really really well every week and you're really high ranked up, you come off and you think you play awful every day and you're sitting top ten, and people are like, oh, you're not playing bad, you're playing really great. But that's just what happens when you when you're playing really well, you know you're bad days, you're still doing

better than most you know. Um, And there's there's absolutely something about this tournament that if you've won it before, it's a massive advantage, you know. I mean, it's hard to win the Masters for the first time, but it seems quite a lot easier to win it for the second time because there's all that you know, you can do it, you know, and he's got that on his side, and he's probably the most informed player in the world.

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daughter and wife and look for are breaking him in. Michael. Let's talk about KEEPCA a little bit more because it was such a it was such a big plotline coming in can Ay. These live guys um make you know, plant their flag here at Augusta and salvage their honor and their entire tours. And Brooks is such a contrarian it's easy to imagine in winning this just to spite everybody. And um, you know, he comes and ranked one hundred and eighteenth in the world, which is really an indictment

of the world, ranking more than Brooks. But what what did you see out of him? And what do you think is going to happen going forward? You know, it was almost like a non Chalan sixty five. I mean, sixty five is a low, low golf scorer and uh uh and as Jeff said, he basically made a double bogie on thirteen because he drugs in anywhere in play it's a six iron, and uh so he's very likely going to make a four there instead of a six.

And then he missed three short cuts. So I mean, you're talking about a sixty five that people say this all the time, but just it's actually true. He shot a sixty too, had that easily could have been a sixty two without even making bombs just by playing let's call it sixty three sous. As Jeff was alluding to earlier, You've got to get read because Black's coming. Nobody's gonna shoot in these conditions. I don't think anybody's gonna break

part four consecutive rounds. Maybe Rory break part for three more rounds, given what he tends to do around here. But he's put himself in a tremendous position, and he has that sort of not swagger nonchalance we've seen in every major that he's won or contended in. He just treats it all kind of the same. So I think of all the low rounds today, I think was his was the most impressive. The thing that we don't know about him right now is is he sort of out

of practice for playing seventy two whole golf tournaments. It's one thing to win three round golf tournaments and something else, you know, as Tony Finnou and Molnari showed us a couple of years ago, and anybody else to do it for four straight rounds, and of course that's what you're gonna have to do here. And we don't know if this shot him in Mighty Human go into Mondays, but right now. Of all the play that we've seen, I would say kept because it was probably the most remarkable.

And he's just the perfect anti hero. You know, he's not gonna he's he just doesn't give you that much out there on the golf course. He's hard to read, and he's a little brooding. He's a little mysterious, and he could kind of be a dick and all these things. I think he inspires conflicted feelings people. He's kind of cool, but he's heart it's not easy to root for. But then it's fun to watch him play. But how does he says he's burning to win, but you can't really tell.

Like he's just so enigmatic, Like he's almost the perfect embodiment of live golf for me more than any anybody else in this field, Like he would be the perfect winner at this very complex moment in professional golf. And you have a lot of live support among the former winners. I mean, we saw it when Tiger won, all those former winners. You know, the club within the club. We've talked about a million times. It's a real thing. The club within the club, whether you're Larry Miys and Bernhard

Langer or Patrick Read and Sergio Garcia. But he's got the support of a lot of guys who were already in the club. And I think that he doesn't. As he said today's press conference, you know what he shows and when he asked him, you know how he feeled about the next Netflix series and revealing them more vulnerable side, and he said basically help you know, adding a few words here that there's a disconnect between how he projects

himself publicly in these tournaments and what he's really like. Um. But presuming that's true, there's no reason to doubt it to have the support of the Sergio Patrick Read, Bubba Watson, Phil Mickelson. I don't see how that couldn't be meaningful. What do you think, Jeff? What is what is your take on Brooks up guy? I don't know how you feel like him as a player or a personality in the game. Well, I mean the guy. I think the guy's good. I think he's misunderstood because he doesn't give

you guys much, right, which is fine. There's a lot of guys who don't give you guys much. You know, he's so good. I mean if if I mean we're always sort of every golfer does it I mean you watch other golfers and you kind of get heavy as it's like I wouldn't mind that golf game, you know, like I wouldn't mind that swing, I an't wind that punning stroke. Whatever Brooks is that I watched him play today, and every time I watch him, players like, well, that guy.

I like that guy's game. You know, he just looks he looks really really good. And I mean we're not anywhere near that yet because there's a long way to go and the weather's going to get weird and um, but he's got a pretty good track record of when he gets up there and if he if he gets within twenty seven holes or so of the end of this tournament and he's right up the top of the leader board, he's not going to go anywhere, you know. It says sort of this stubborn no, I'm just better

than you guys. I'm just going to beat you, you know, which is what the best do? You know? They just happily refused to lose. And he has a he's probably driving a better car than most. You know, he's just the machine of Brooks kept as a proper golfer, you know, really really good, and it looks as good as it's looked ever to me today, at least. So, I mean I like the guy just because he doesn't he give you guys that much doesn't mean Um doesn't mean much.

I don't think you know, the guy behind, the guy in between the ropes and everyone sees on TV and players and in the media center and the guys in the locker room that it's they're very often different, you know, the public persona and the real person. He just wants it really bad, and he might maybe be a little bit hesitant to sort of show that he wants it, you know, but he wants it really really bad, and he gets grumpy like the rest of us when it doesn't happen. You know. Um, No, I'm a I'm a

Brooks fan, absolutely. I mean I'm a fan of um. But yeah, I'm a Brooks fan. You know, Jeff I was with Watson, Tom Watson in two thousand, I think it was two thousand, summer of that, let's see, summer when was the Ryder Cup in Paris? Sound eighteen Okay, so it was the summer before that, and and Watson was already saying what Jeff was saying, you know, the question was among the young players, who's the best? Maybe it was eighteen, and Watson said, it's Cup. He's got everything.

And part of that everything is he hits it a mile high. Now, that might be less important this week than with the course playing soft, that it might be other other weeks, but I mean, like big Jack before him, when he hited a mile high and it will stop

on these greens, that's a huge advantage. So yeah, it's it's easy to say now because we have because he played such an impressive first round, but also because he has him playing well on the Live Tour, and also we haven't seen a lot of them of late, and because as Jeff Nody, he doesn't quote give us a lot he's thought obligated to and he may not even be capable of. But there's a lot of reasons to

think that this actually could be his week. And then the ramifications of that for golf are huge, and then it sort of gets you know, then you really then that really tests what fred Ridley said the other day. It's like, can there be a thawing golf? Can there be a thowing between the Live Tour and the PGA Tour. And given some of the retoric that we refer from Tiger and Rory early on, which would seem like, no, there can't be. But that's not really a very No

is not a really in life in general. No, it's not really a very sustainable answer when you're talking about complex relationships. And maybe that can actually be It's weird for me to say it, but maybe it can be a good thing. If if a lived player, particularly this particular lived player, wins this thing, well, it's It's has been an open question what does a win on the live to or mean in the grand scheme of things.

No one's been able to really define that. But Brooks haven't won two of the last six events over there. If he takes this green jacket, all of a sudden, those winds become elevated and they have more value. It's like, okay, well this was this, those were the building blocks, and you can stay competitively sharp and beating guys or there does have meaning. So yeah, there's a lot at stake. It's all this is a talking point Eler in the week.

Was all theoretical, but now it's here. Brooks looks like he's gonna be tough to beat, so that's obviously something that we're all going to focus on. Let's go back to Rory, because you know, there was He've been playing great for so long, career best second place last year at the Masters. You know, walked out of here with his head held high, feeling great about his chances. And you know he came out today and he just looked flat and he didn't he didn't look he just didn't

look sharp, he didn't look focused. He was missing left, which is always a red flag with Roor. And you know he double bogie's the seventh hole, which, uh, it's not it's not the easiest hole, Augusta. It's it's probably an easy bogie, but I mean that's tough to take a six there. He fights all the way back, he gets it back into two red numbers, and then then he bogie seventeen and he's he's in thirty seventh place.

I mean, the course was very gettable today. And to your point, Jeff, if seven or eight under is going to win this thing, um, he gave up a lot of ground today. I don't he didn't quite lose it, but he put himself in a really disadvantaged position. So it's just that the annual Rory drama. What what did you see, Jeff? If anything that makes you encourage you can find it, or what's your analysis of where it went sideways? Like let's just let's just talk about Rory

for a little while. Well, firstly, um, the scores are really good, but there's nothing easy about breaking pirate the Masters ever. Um, so I don't think it went sadways. I know a lot of people went low. I don't think it went sideways. I mean, he's beaten his first round average I think by a couple over the last you know, so he's improving. I mean nobody, well Tiger knows and there's about what two three people living who know what it feels like to try to close out

the career Grand Slam. I mean, and I can't think of a harder place to do it than here, Like same course every year, the place that's going to create scar tissue. I mean, all the other three majors, you've got a different course. One of them is going to suit you, and one of them is going to work. You know this one. You're going to come back to the same place. You're going to think about the same course and the same shots and the same stuff every day. It's got to be the hardest place to close out

the career. Grand Slam. Everybody wants to talk about it. Every question he ever gets in a month leading up to this for the last ten years has been greer Grand Slam. What do you think it's hard to carry that with you? I mean, there's just so much golf

goes the best, and Scheffler shows this. It seems to show this that when everything when it's all simple, when life is simple and it's all balanced, and life at home is good, and you don't have a whole lot of worries and there's not a whole lot to sort of you're not trying to live up to any expectations and you're just sort of doing your thing. Golf is a lot easier than when you Rory's carries a lot of extras that a lot of other guys in the

field don't. And I wouldn't even include all this sort of spokesman for the PGA to a sort of role that people are sort of handing him or he's sort of taken on. I don't think that's it. It's just you live your heart. I mean, it's an unbelievable thing to win three four multiple majors. To win all four is just what's has only been done five times, right, I mean, it's just it's a hard thing to do.

And I just think the weight of that. And there's the longest three days of the year is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday at the Masters, like it's just get me to the first tea, you know, I mean, and his Monday Tuesday Wednesday a way longer than everyone else's. And he's shown that he clearly plays this course as well as anybody. He just puts himself behind the eight ball with fifty four half to play and then it beats the field

for the last three rounds. He kind of seems to do that a lot, so, I mean, I don't know. And in a day, I mean, it's very it happens very quick. I mean, he's going along fine, then he doubled seven, and then all of a sudden there's three guys at seven under part. It's like, you really haven't done that much wrong, and you know, you run a couple of parts over the edge of the hole and all of a sudden you're nine behind, and now you need to force it. And now it's really difficult, you know.

I don't know. I don't know how much you can read into it. I mean, he's obviously their class golfer. I don't know whether it ever win it or not. This place seems to get into people's heads. I mean it gets into the head before it gets into everyone's head. That's kind of part of the charm of the place. And to carry the sort of self expectation that he would be carrying this stuff. I don't know. I think. I mean, I still think you'll finish great, You'll still

finish up high. And I think it actually helps him. I mean it helps him. I think that it's going to get tough because he knows. I mean, shooting aid In Under for the next three rounds would be quite difficult. But if he's only got to shoot seven, you know, you can craft that out. You know, you can sort of have nine holes where you don't make a birdie

and it's okay. But if it was going to be Aiding Under and he went front nine tomorrow and didn't make any birdies, then he's probably not getting to aid In Under, you know. So um yeah, I don't know. I think I think we're a bit hard on him. I think it's a really really hard thing to do. What he's trying to do around a place that's the hardest place to do it. I think we've got to Yeah, I think people are going need to lay off him and just realize how hard this thing is to do.

And he' still pretty impressive because you even part around a really hard course. I mean, I'd love to see, um, yeah, it's a it's a tough golf course anyway, So i'd love to see him play. Well. Golf is better when Rory's up there. It's so it's so fun to watch play well, maybe the funnest to watch play well, you know, the bouncy walk and how free years and um, it'd

be fun to see him get in these. He just doesn't seem to ever really quite be there with non Hall topply and it would be really fun to say that sort of fun fault. So I kind of just miss it. I don't really, I just wouldn't. I just want to say that as as a golf fan, Jeff, can I ask you a question? It loots to somebody Alan was just talking about a minute ago. I think one of the most pretentious phrases in golf is, oh,

it's a really good second shot golf course. I mean, I don't even know what the actually don't even really know what it means. But to Alan's point about the third that Victor Hobbam played today and whether you could play it under dry conditions, I mean that exact sh shot you couldn't. But what about some of the third shots you do play on this golf course, some of those finicky fiddly shots, what are some of them? Really?

Like that third shot on ten if you miss that green, like the third shot on one, if you miss that green, the third shot on fifteen, if you don't go for it, can you talk from your experience of having played it about to use the pretentious phrase, I'm just inventing Augusta National is a third shot golf course? Well, yeah, well, I mean Augusta nashvill Is is a golf course that every shot, the higher quality of the shot you hit,

exponentially makes the next shot easier. If you like, So, if you had a really good drive, your second shots relatively easy. If you had a great second shot, your third shots really is. If you'd have a bad t shot, you know what I mean, it gets it. You make mistakes, get magnified. Really really fast. But the third shots of

stuff around the green. I mean I I watched minmir lead to day drive it right next to the third grad where he drove it right up on the third graen where you second shot where he was putting, and he made five. And it happens so fast you don't do anything wrong. You just leave the part of first the first part just a little bit short, and now you're put for a birdie is a fifteen foot part that if it misses, it's going to go six feet past.

So it really he's hit it. He's hit it sort of half a foot too short, and all of a sudden he's making five after driving it basically on the green. That is possible on every single hole. And we saw Tom I don't know on the team on the board garden from the fifteen hit his bunk shot in the right bunk round fifteen he just hit at the water. And now all of a sudden he's playing his fourth shot from the from the layups. But it happens really

really fast. So I think that's probably realistically really where the experience is. I think when you get those tricky little shots around the greens and you understand the ones that you know what, I can kind of try to get this one close and worst case I make bogey. But there's there's shots on every hole out there with certain pins and you're in certain spots that you really have to say it, right, how do I just not

make double here? You know, I can't really try to take this on really sort of take the long view on stuff, and how do I get this down in three at the most? It's really really tricky. As I said, the real sort of thing about this is the worst. You just your mistakes get really really magnified and it looks like it's wide and you're always chipping off short grass and you've got a great low in the bunk all the time, and you rare very rarely in the

trees where you can kind of hit it anywhere. But you can't really because the higher quality shot you hit, the easier your neck shot is. And it's um you miss it in some really tricky little spots. And when we saw the mess, I mean, Rory was making made a bit of mess at thirteen from the middle of the fairway. It's very easy to do to just sort of you eh to lose shot, loose shots every week and then you just hit it out the ten feet

and you make it, or you don't. You hit a loose shot here, and it just gets harder and harder and harder until you get the ball in the hole. You know, it's um, it's part of the genius at a place. So like you say, there is no such thing as a first shot course or a second shot course, or I mean this course is a sort of it's

the direct proportion. The better you hit every shot proportionately or exponentially, really, the easier your neck shot is, you know, all the way right, even even putting, even putting like you've got a thirty foot part, the better your first thirty foot part is, the easier your part part is. If you missed that thirty foot a bad part. Or now you've got to part put the one alm, I'm not going to make alm. I'm not going to four part. You know. That's the chet's really the mental challenges. It

never never lets you go. Even on a simple little fifteen foot up hill part. You've given a bit too much. Now you've got four feet coming downhill and now wow, now I could actually Now I've got to careful that I don't three part this three foot four foot. Um, that's a fantastic course like that. Yeah, the third shots are very interesting. That's probably the funnest ones to watch as a spectator if you're at the golf course, to stand around the greens and to watch the stuff that

happens around the greens, because it makes everybody's scrap. We're all scratching our head around the greens. I mean, how about John rams to do in that first green, that third shot? You know, after that he was cooked, absolutely, I mean in that first green especially. I mean we've talked about a lot, but that first that's it's one of the that's gonna be the fattest first hole in that we play regularly. Um, it's it doesn't look that scary. And in the the practice around he had all the parts

are around and it's all very good. And then the tournament that it seems to get us a little bit faster on Thursday morning usually and all of so they know their pins. I mean there's pins that's if you move it a foot to the right, everybody makes their six footers, but you move it just to that spot that they know. Everybody overreads it, misses it high or everybody you know, it's it's incredible how they can put these pins. It really looks like it's going to break

a cup and it just doesn't break at all. You know, they know this course so well. Nobody sets up a course better, and it just they they can make you. You can walk down the first fairway, I think you're playing really well, and I'm putting really well, or I'm doing this really well, and by about the third hole you feel like you've never played golf before. And that's what it does, you know, and that's why it's such a mental test. Yeah, it's a yeah, it's just good.

It's great fun to watch, and it's great fun to play when you do it well. And it's just really incredibly sort of deflating when you sort of get caught out. I don't forgive me, please, I'm enjoying it. Keep going. But but Jeff, you know, the last time we got to really do a deep dive on a golf course like this, three of us together, was the Old Course. We all love the Old Course. I mean, I can get emotional talk about the Old course and now to hear you talk about a ghost to Nashville almost the

same kind of way. But you know, you don't have that experience with your dad like you do at the old course. But of course we know that Jones thought a lot about the old course when he and McKenzie were designing this place. But how did the two play out in your mind? In some ways they're very similar. Of course they're very different too, but just as iconic golf courses, how do you think about the two at the same time. Well, I mean, there's the similarities are

harder to see now. I think because of the way it's presented. I think early days, back in the thirties and forties, it would have been fairly less irrigation on the fairways. It would have been sort of but mute, pretty firm. You had to run the ball up on five. I mean five and fourteen look like they've been pulled straight from the out course those two grains. It would

have been in more of a ground game. And I think over the years, as everything's got better, everything's got better, it's more of a game in the air and you're sort of flying it onto five and four. You wouldn't even consider trying to run it up on five and fourteen anymore. And some of the other stuff it it plays different than probably Jones's intention, to be honest, because he couldn't have envisioned how we were playing golf now, I don't think or agronomy and those sort of things.

But they both, as I was sort of saying before about it, sort of exponentially, like the further you get off track, the harder it is to get back on track. You know. The courses both do that, they do that in different ways. I mean, this is an elevated test. This is like playing snooker on a full size table compared to playing pool in the pub. You know, it's quite simple. Everybody, you have two or three beers, you go to the pub and your whole five or six shots.

So it's like I'm really good at Paul. And then if you went on to get on a really like the full size the big thing, or it would be like driving a stick shift Porsche race car from the seventies compared to like driving a you know, a nice car. Now. It's like it's just an elevated skill level. You've just it's so much more. There's so much more nuance and depth. There's depth to the test, you know, I mean, you've got your second shot on ten, and you're downslope. The

better your t shot, the flatter your lie. But you're generally offered downslope with a ball above your feet and eleven the balls above your feet, thirteen the balls weigh above your feet. Fourteen you have to hit a drawer into the green, but the balls below your feet. You know. Nine you have to hit a drawer into that green. But the balls weigh below your feet. We don't ever have that. We don't often have that in regular golf.

That's that's why the cream rises to the top because lots of us can hit a seven nine from five, hit it straight off a flat line and a nice soft green. But you get a firmish green and the balls below your feet and you actually have to hit a drawer to hit the green. This is like elevating the test like it's a deeper It's a deeper test. It's a test with more depth. And the old course does it, The great courses do that. It's not because this is such a historic, famous tournament why the cream

rises to the top. They rise to the top because the test is more difficult, and it makes unless you are one of the best players in the world, you just can't possibly do shoot these scores. I mean, people don't have any idea. Even today, everyone's like, oh, August, it was easy today. They have no idea. It's really not. These things are really it's a really really hard course. It's just it's a really as is. The best word is more depth. There's more depth to the test, and

that's what the old course does. It's irrelevant the score under par, it's totally irrelevent. The shots you need to shoot eighteen under here or eighteen under at the old course for four days. Shots not everybody can hit. And it's a variety. As I said, balls below your feet, balls above your feet, down slopes, up slopes, decisions. You've got to be brave. I mean the old course to do it well, you've got to take the outer bounds

and the bunker is on a little bit here. You've got to take the water and you've got to you've got to hit some shots that are just not shots that we're not used to hitting. I mean, the second shot on fifteen is just not a shot we would

take on anywhere else. But because it's here and because we know we have to take it on, you have to take it on it forces you to hit shots that you're uncomfortable hitting, but the only way you can hit them well is to not be uncomfortable where you're hitting it, you know, if that makes sense, Which is which is why it's a great course for Keepkat, you would say, And it was fantastic for Phil and fantastic for Tiger because they loved that sort of stuff. I mean,

I'm just going to take this on. You know, it's a course that makes you want to play conservative, but the only way to play it well is to play it aggressively and have the skill set to play all these uneven lies and understand slope and it's really hard to imagine some of the breaks and so how high you have to hit some of these. I mean, as I'll pick on Tom again. Tom Kim's the best, and he's probably going to play here for a really long time.

But he had that bunker shot on fifteen and he just didn't respect the slope enough and very quickly he's got a nice greenside bunker shot and all of a sudd he's in the water. That doesn't happen in a normal place. You know, that doesn't happen, and it kind of maybe looks unfair, but Tiger would have hit that bunker shop six feet right of the whole, you know.

So it's just a fantastic test of a golfer that just challenges us to a much higher level than a general course, and the old course does the same as a score relative to part is completely irrelevant here. I think it's asking you you just have to beat the other one hundred and fifty six players or the other eighty seven players or whoever at the field. To do that, you have to have all the shots in your bag, and not everybody. I mean, there's really only handfuls of

guys in the world who actually have all these shots. Well, there's the metaphysical aspect, because you talked about this last year so beautifully, where they're scary shots and there do or die, and the only way you can execute the is to be fearless and to be free. But everything in your nature wants you to be conservative and holds you back, and it's that that inner battle. Can you just let the club go the way you have to

to execute it? But and that's you know, when we're talking about Rory, like we know he has all the skill sets, but it's almost like it almost like he was holding on the club a little bit today, you know, all those left misses and some one hand finishes. He just didn't have his usual rhythm and he's been swinging

it beautifully. So again, is that is that just more of a mental thing where he's just trying to be a little too careful, he's a little afraid of the miss and just that that two percent hang on which he usually never has. That makes the difference. And that's why it's such a fascinating riddle, not just for Rory, but for all these guys. And of course it only gets as you get closer to the finish line and that you're so close to getting getting that jacket, like

it just becomes even more tantalizing and more tortures. That that's why this course is so much fun to watch because it, as you're saying, Jeff, it requires so much physical skill, but then it takes just as much on the mental side. I mean, it's just so stressful, and that's why it's just such fascinating stage. I think, Alan, what you said is he's and Jeff was saying same thing.

It's absolutely absolutely true for sixty three holes the course, the course, and what it will yield to guys who really, really, really know how to play golf, meaning the Alathaballs of the world and the Sevis of the world and the Tigers of the world who have every shot through. Is that that someone can play. But and I would say this is why it's more than the course. It is

this particular tournament. When it comes to late on Sunday afternoon, there really truly are whether you're whether you're like a golf historian or you know, you know who do you mean to merit and Byrnilson, or whether you do or you don't, you still know that you're that if you can get that, if you can get to the house and when the thing, you're in the club forever. And that has to I'm sure way to Mulinary's mind. I

remember asked Mollinary this. I said, you know, when you woke up Sunday morning, could you imagine could you not think about the idea of how the shirt's going to go with the coat? And Mulinary said, super honestly, you said you would love not to think about it, but you can't not. And at some point that I think that's why so many people who aren't even interested in golf, get interested in this tournament because the course, the course, the course and then everything that it means come late

on Sunday afternoon. And that's why it's just spectacular every which way. Well, I mean, Scottie Scheffler crying in his wife's arms Sunday morning last year, he's one of the you said at Michael, it's one of the all time great admissions about the pressure of tournament golf and him him saying to Meredith, I don't think I'm ready for this. I don't know why. I don't think I can do this, and he's like sobbing in her arms like that is that is the test, that is that is the challenge.

And of course he overcame it, and he's been on a heater or ever since because he proved to himself that he could do it. Then that's what's so compelling about this, and it's true in any major championship. But

of course Jeff knows this because he's done it. But I mean, if you look, even if you look at at what Keepka did at Bethpage I mean he was decimating that long, difficult Bethpage Black course until Sunday Sunday, he looked kind of ordinary and he was playing the Harrold Varner if I recall and harm Varner went for a number and Keevica sort of went for a number and it was good enough to win. But that's all

it really was. And so no matter what kind of golf Brooks Kevica plays, you know, on Friday and Saturday, I can't imagine going south. He's playing too well, but bikes on the afternoon. There are going to be other things. There are going to be other factors that were part of It's going to be up and playing fifty four hold tournaments. But the bigger part of it is I'm going to be in the club forever. Yeah, that's well said. Just a weather update because Jeff has a references a

few times. So Tomorrow is actually gonna be warm. It gonna be eighty degrees but eighty percent chance of rain and thunderstorm. So if we can get in a full eighteen holes for the field, that would be remarkable. And then Saturday, the temperature plummet's high of fifty one one percent chance of rain, so it'll be a war of attrition. It's going to be cold and long and nasty, and yeah, it feels like it can feel like Zach Johnson all over again. And then Sunday gets a bit warmer, up

to sixty degrees. It shows fifty percent chance of rain. So it's gonna be a tough three days and possibly four ahead. And how guys handled the starts and stops and all of that. Let's just let's just end this podcast with a winner and a winning scorelet we don't usually do this, but we've got some data to go on. Jeff, you're the man here. Let's put you on the spot while score. It's really hard. I mean that oh seven year we had like low forties, similar it was a

similar forecast, but never as much rain. But it was a very cold north wind. I mean I remember hitting driver three. I'm short on the first, which wasn't happening today, you know, And the part fives are all layups, and it was really tough and miserable and cold and scary, and yeah, battle of attrition. I from what I what evidence I saw today, Brooks looks like the Brooks we

saw when he was marching along. He it's not talked about much, but he spent the first five or six years of his life playing Europe, like the Mini Tours in Europe and then the Victor in Europe. I mean he's played in a rain suit, probably a little bit more than a lot of these guys, and he just looks really good. And I'm going to say nine under Brooks kept goo Shane with a with a not to Shane Larry because if he really gets like that, we know he's good in that sort of stuff. Michael, I mean,

Jeff really took the words out of my mouth. But I do think it's Kepco. He plays early tomorrow, he's probably gonna be one of the guys who gets who gets done early. He's probably gonna be leaving this thing for thirty six sols. I don't see him going that. That's south. Then he gets to play late on Saturday. Maybe things I'll have calmed down a little bit then wind wise and otherwise. So then he's in the last group on Sunday, and guys usually went out of the

last group. So it's easy to make a case for Kepp going to go from strength to strength here in Large Park because it's got an early tea time. And as for the winning scories at seven, yeah, just to not super duplicate. Jeff, I'll say ten, but it's just really a stab in the dark. Well, this is how we know Brooks Kepa is not going with the Masters, because all three of us think he's going to win the Masters death on these things. But yeah, it's I

think it's his time. I think it's his moment. I think in this very we didn't even touch on the fact that today there was just ruling became official from the arbitration case in Europe to live guys lost they're not gonna be able to play on the European Tour and just turns volume up on all this stuff. It's um. You know, I saw Keith Palley under the tree, the CEO of the European Tour. He was practically doing cart wheels like it's it's it's just one more log on

the fire. I think it's destined for a live guy to win this thing. H Brooks would be perfect. So I think it's three out of three. Then Alan, how many years is he obbligated to play the Live Tour And what path could he possibly have to come back to the PHA Tour if he even wanted to. Yeah, it's I'm trying to nail down whether it's a four or five year deal, but it's it's multi um and

it's definitely it's front loaded. I mean, Brooks and some of these guys were clever enough to get more money in the first couple of years because of the uncertainty that follows. So um. But you know, there was that I haven't seen this in I've been pretty to a couple of contracts, but I didn't. Some of it's been redacted, so um. But there was that news break that Alex

MASSELLI had about the clawback provision. If you want to leave, you have to pay back you know, three or four x which you already got, which would obviously be prohibitive. So there's leaving on your own. I mean, like Brooks is a team captain, he has equity and the team, he's recruited, you know, his brother's part of the team, all this stuff. I don't think voluntary, voluntary leaving is

a real possibility. I think, you know, Lee Westwood told me that he had this meeting of the minds with Rory in Dubai this year, and Rory said, let's just sit around a table and figure this out. Like it's time for the players to come together and forge a compromise. Whether they could get all the big bosses and all the egos and all the contracts and all the TV stuff in alignment remains to be seen. But we've seen how much power the players have. They've taken control of

the PGA tour. It was the players who really made Live come alive. I mean, the players have the power. We know that. So if that's if that's what they want, and this was an important week I think for for those issues. I mean, there's been a lot of kumbaya in the press about how it win's getting along and all the hugs and all the handshakes, and I pulled a bunch of guys aside and like, Okay, I know you have to say that publicly, but like, give me the real shit. What's really going on? Like give me,

give me who's been mean? What bitchiness have you seen? And to every single one, even under the cloak of anonymity, has said, no, it's been great. It's been a really nice vibe. Everyone's just been above the fray, focused on the masters. Everyone's been been happy to see each other. So this week may if they ever reunify the game in the next couple of years, like this week becomes an important part of it, where all the bitterness and all the name calling of last season, I think it's

dissipated a little bit this week. Now. If if Brooks are another live guy wins and they're running around the green popping bottles like Greg Norman forecast, you know it's a fragile piece, but it seems like they've at least forged it a little bit this week. So again, and this is about the Masters and all that, but in the world we live in, these other issues are inescapable. So the answer is, I don't think. I don't think

anyone's leaven live voluntarily. Either the plug gets pulled in a year or two, or the decision makers find a way to forge a compromise. But a defection doesn't seem to be a real option. Now, you can get relegated, you can your contract can expire, and maybe they'll there'll be some sort of path if you play through Q school. You know, that's different than actually leaving while you're still on your contract, But even that has to get, you know, figured out. So we'll save all this for next week's

recap podcastle for now, let's focus on the masters. It was a heck of a day at Augusta National, a lot of fireworks. The next three rounds are going to be very intriguing. We will keep podcasting and U and two on them, the fat on all this stuff. But that was Jeff Ogilvie and Michael Bambergants is allenship Nuck thinks for listening to this fire drill. We back at it again soon and that's the end. My bed big and I played the win, made a fortune with my

shot game man. I ran the table, never thought I could fall down. The winter time hit me like a cannon, the ball and now I can't shake this losing the stream. Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head, I can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.