That's why golf such a funny game. You know, I worked really hard for six months to get worse. Um, like, it's quite funny. I got thoughts in my head. Can't get them Joan. Nothing what I'm thinking about that in my head, can't get them out, jo not think what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan Ship knocking back from their Fire Drill podcast. This is a special one.
It's like going to accompany a new episode of the grind Our docuseries that kind of takes you the viewer slash listener, kind of deep into the world of professional golf and those who aspire to get there and um. This this episode that we're dropping here Masters Week follows Laird Sheppard. He was the British Amateur champ by way of an epic come back. He fought his way to the Masters in two thousand and twenty two and we were our cameras were there through for everything in Scotland.
We've got some great stuff from from his whole journey and of course we were with him in AUGUSTA. So we're just going to talk about kind of bring things up to date, uh, match Nell and I and then we'll have lair to jump on and and and talk through with this. Last year has been like and reminisce about the Masters. And but let me throw it over to Matt before we get too deep into this. He wants to thank some of the people who make this possible. Matt,
the floor is yours. Thanks all new sponsor this week for all things that we're doing out of out of Augusta and the Masters. And that's Robin Golf. Finally have an answer to the question that we get all the time. Do I get a set of clubs for my son, daughter, wife, me? I'm a beginner, I don't know where to go. What do I do? Go to Robin goolf dot com, family owned business. They have beginner sets, really cool, sleek looking comes with like a leather bag, really cool head covers.
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We've got Mother's Day coming up, Father's Day coming up, kids are getting out of school. Robin Goolf dot com thanks for their sponsorship and highly recommend. That's awesome. Well, so let's talk about Lair Sheppard a little bit without giving away too much. You know, he struggles with the Masters and that's how the episode ends, and the podcast here will bring folks up to date on everything that's
followed in the last year. You give us a little teaser, Matt, because you went deep in Layer and you followed the story all the way through. Well, I, Laird is amazing. He's had several comebacks physically, spiritually, you know, mechanically from a golfing standpoint, obviously as you mentioned, coming back nine down, eight down with nineteen holes to play in the in the British Amateur and uh as you will see in
this episode. And no, we did a multipart podcast on Laard Shepherd a year and a half ago celebrating this incredible comeback. So this is a guy, you know, we talked about the grind and you know, we met up with the multiple times in Scotland. We went out and hit balls with him at Duke's in you know, snow covered driving range. He was the only one on the range had to be you know, thirty degrees and he's having to pick his own balls up off the driving range.
You know, he's physically trying to get stronger. He's preparing for the Masters and these opportunities he got after he wins the British Amateur and he's just a very compelling character. He's very intense and very committed to his craft and for Laird, it's almost and we talk about it on this podcast. For him to get to a place where
he actually lets go is when he becomes dangerous. So getting down eight with nineteen to play is when he started playing his best golf going into the Masters, and he talks about all the distraction and the pressures and sort of the claustrophobia of the of the patrons, and you know that he's his biggest challenge is his own mind. And he really has been always very open and honest
and very thoughtful for up to us. As he talks about this struggle and people in his inner circle, his girlfriend and his friend and caddy at the British Ampshire talk about it. He just has to find this balance between working towards getting better and backing away and freeing himself up to play better. It's you know what I mean, It's there's that fine line and you think about it.
We talked about Jordan Spieth, when is he the most dangerous when he was young and had no you know, no, he had no inhibitions, free of all the kind of the mental craziness. Rory, he was the best when he was just a kid playing golf. Tigers always had that ability to sort of play the game. He's playing the game. You know, I think Laird is going to have a really good career as soon as he's able to sort
of turn it off. Yeah. That that mental challenge is so fascinating, and it really comes through in the sort of the grind where, um, it's having watched a few times, you know, he's We follow him early in Master's Week and he's just so a bulliant and he's just so happy to be there, and and then and we interview him after he's missed the cut and he's just you know, his eyes are watery and he's he's just so crushed, and you can't have a more perfect distillation of how
brutal tournament golf is. And I mean, Bobby Jones is what chased him out of the game at twenty eight, you know, after won the Grand Slam, was the Houston drink two inches of corn liquor after every round. He was just it just took such a toll on him. And so um, that's what I love about about this show, that is we have that intimacy and you've been and we we we capture those tough moments as well as
the moments of triumph. They're both there, they're both in this this one episode, and I think that's why it's so compelling. You also find out that Laird tried to change his change his swing going into the Masters because he knew he needed to hit a little higher and hit them, hit that d all and under pressure, it didn't it didn't hold up. And he was, you know, going to the US Open at the country Club and sort of under the same kind of set of pressures
and it wasn't working. And he gets to that Wednesday before the for the US Open and when he finally decides that's it, I'm going back to my going back to what got me here, and it finally clicks and
he misses the cut at the US Open. But you know, he talks through that whole process too, and in his mind he's still trying to get back to that swinging game he had got him to win at the British Amperature, and that that's just again goes back to sort of this inherent need for these guys to continue to always be tweaking and tinkering and trying to hit a higher or laugh versus right or what. You know. It just fascinating.
It's just fascinating to me. And Laird is a is a real deep thinker and very he's a very intellectual and and I just think as soon as he's able to do that work on the range and stop doing work on the course, and if he's if he's able to sort of let it go, he's very dangerous with the putter when he gets hot, and I think he's got a great career ahead of him. I look forward to seeing where it goes for him. It's amazing how many players have fallen into that trap. And it takes
like a real confidence and sort of strength. Of course, you always want to get better. I mean to quote Tiger, if you're not getting better or getting worse, so that that that quest for improvement. But the flip side is you have to know who you are as a golfer and you can stay on the range and say, oh, I want to swing it like Adam Scott or I want to You know, it's very easy to just start chasing someone or something that that's not really who you are,
as it's in your in your competitive DNA. And so that's a tough lesson for Laird, but it's better to learn it at you know, twenty three than thirty three and even forty three. I mean, that's what happened, whether it's Ian Baker, Finch or David Duval. I mean guys have gone. Happened to Savy biosteros like players have lost their natural gift could chase in something and so um, if it made it made last last year's master is tough.
But if that was the less then if he can stay true to himself and he can play to his own strength, and it was worth it, So it'll be fun to follow him on this journey. But um, maybe we should let Laird speak for himself. I mean, you did a great conversation with him, and I think listeners want to hear it from Laird. So I'm going to step aside and let you guys get to get to your your whole conversation. UM, certainly if you're if you're
into this podcast, you've probably already watched the episode. But if not, I would employ you to go to fire Pit Collective dot com or go to our our YouTube and you can you can catch not only this episode, which is number six in the series, being they're the first five, are also there as well and on some really compelling golfers who have just tremendous stories, and and the way we're able to tell it with a lot of a lot of authenticity, a lot of a lot
of intimacy. It's um to me, it's just just fabulous storytelling. So UM, anyway, that's that's all I have to say on the matter. This is allienship. Like, I'm going to sign off and we're gonna turn this whole the rest of podcast over to Matton Laird. We last left you at AUGUSTA right, and UM talked me through sort of that whole experience and that week as you kind of now almost a year later, a sort of kind of
looking looking back and reflecting on all that transpired. Yeah, I mean it was a full on week, like the most full one week out of any of the other, um things that went along with I guess whinning the brush amateur Like the Open, I guess the more sort of familiar topic golf made that a bit more easy.
And again the US Open also felt maybe a little bit more low key, but um, I guess for myself, I didn't get to play a whole lot of golf over the winter leading up to the Masters, and so he kind of, you know, working towards that one tournament for the best part of sort of six months really, and I think that made it quite difficult not to over prepare over age in some ways. And so you know, when I did come, it was just like a lot going on and it was a very intense week. I
think as well. One of the things I really took from it was how close everyone is to you on the golf course, like physically, the crowds so close and there's so many people, and I think maybe that's the slight Tiger effect as well, that he was obviously playing that week, and I just felt like there was sort of fifteen percent more people and just the sort of energy around him as well was just um like there's just so many different little things I suppose they're go
into just they're ramping up of the adrenaline and um yeah it was. I mean it was awesome. Um but it was I found it probably you know, looking back, and it difficult to to acclimatized quick enough, so almost clausterrophobic. Almost Did you feel a little almost tight? Um yeah, I guess. I guess so the golf course in parts can feel quite claustrophobic. And then you know, with with all the patrons as well, it's just um yeah, you're you know, you're hitting certain shots from I remember nine
as an example. You're hitting like a full nine nine um to a back pin and you've got you know, people sat pretty much like seven yards from the hole. Um Like, you know, it's just like you're very, very crowded, and I guess that's what makes the atmosphere because you know, everyone is but it's allowed to get so close to you, so close to the green and whereas you know opens and us opens, you definitely probably have a bit more space.
It's more like a stadium field, whereas like August, there's really not that many grand stands apart from maybe arounds of amen corner, but the rest of it it's just you know, sort of feet on the floor and um, just sort of galleries that are ten deep. I mean obviously not not the group I was in over the first two days. But on the Monday, for example, we're playing a paract around coming down nine and Tiger was going up the first and it's just like a stampede
of people. I mean, it's just absolutely I've never seen anything like it. So um and I think you only really get that at the AUGUSTA So that week. Do you think back upon that week, do you think you know, obviously you wanted to play better. You probably if you had things to do all over again, you would have. You know, A guy only knows how that continues to run through your mind, But it does it still run through your mind? Do you still almost feel like you could go back and and and uh and sort of
do it all over again? Um less so now, um, but now it's rolling around again this year, I definitely think about it a little bit but um, yeah, I mean I wish, I wish I've done a lot of things differently, but you know that's not how life works, is it. So Um, as much as possible, you try to I'll try to, um learn why I count from it. Um, And I guess just use it as motivation because you know, I don't want that to be my only experienced there. So UM yeah, no, definitely for for a large part
of last year. UM, it definitely was on my mind. UM. And you know it wasn't it wasn't helpful, and so it's taken a lot too, I guess to work through. Um. Well, I guess playing bear. You know, playing bear helps, you know, you try and try and get out there again and play better and try and forget about it. But I mean it's yeah, it's um, it's it's it was tough to take at a time, but it's a valuable failure. I suppose it's how I tried to look at it.
But it's that's that's quite easy to stay in conversations like this, but you know, deep down, it takes quite a lot of convincing yourself that was the case. And but that's it's it's you know, I guess. It's never black and white like that. It's sometimes where it does pop up in my head and I'm like, yeah, I wish, I wish i'd you know, done X, Y and Z differently, But you can't. You can't change. You can only just
use that and try and improve. So will give me one thing, you know, if you're going to one thing that if you had to do it all over all over again, what would you have done? I mean, I guess the major thing for me was I went about trying to improve my golf swing over that winter. UM, and I wouldn't have done any of that. UM if I could go back, because I'm still working my way out of it. I mean, it's um, it's pretty um. That's why goal such a funny game. You know, I
worked really hard for six months to get worse. UM, Like it's quite funny. UM. So I wish I wish I had just kept to my sort of DNA what I was doing and just try to make that, you know, one percent better, because how it performed at times, you know, the Open and obviously to win the British Amateur in the first place, you know, it was it was as good as it needs to be. You know, Earnie needed tweaks here and there, but I sort of tried to wholesale change a bunch of different things, not only in
my long game, but all sorts of different things. And you know, it's it's you hear it on. Yeah, a lot of players talk about the dangers of it, and you know you end up jumping from coach to coach and and sort of danger of trying to search too much. And um, when you're listening to it, you're like, yeah, that makes sense, and then you find yourself making the
same mistake. It's just quite difficult. When you're wired in a way that wants to improve and wants to work hard, it's quite easy to find a lot of things to to waste your time on. Basically, So, um, that's the number one thing. I would have just kept what I was doing because I was, I was it was good enough, Um how it was. Um. But you know, that's is what it is. Like a lot of things positive came out of having to prepare for the Masters. I ended up putting much better this last year than I had
ever done before. Um, So you know, my mindsets trying to put all pieces together, try and get some long game performances that I was getting pre um twenty twenty two. Um, and I put that together with the sort of hutting and sort of short game bits I've improved, and we should be good to go. But as you know, it's never that simple. But that's the plan specifically. I remember when we were at Dukes and you hit in both you talked about feeling like to match what he did.
Happened at Augusta. You were you were essentially trying to go from hitting a little bit of a cut to a drawer. Is that is that correct? Yeah? Yeah, um and yeah I probably would. Um, I probably didn't need to make the wholesale changes that I did to be able to do that. I could have just worked on him a bit more of a draw um. Like I can see how guys like Martin Kaymer comes to mind,
or someone who fades it. Um, and I can see why, having played Augusta now that he might have went away and thought, you know, I need to be better at hitting the ball right to left. But um, that didn't really work for him trying to change. I think you need to stick to what got you there in the first place. Obviously, for him it was world number one.
So yeah, I was trying to work hanging it more rights left and a bit higher, and you know I've probably succeeded with that now, but just a long winded way of doing it. Um. But it's interesting when you play, when you play the golf course and then you go and think about it. You know, really you could probably get away with not having to do you know, hit too much, too many draws. You could probably play your
own game and just play it a little bit smarter. Um. You know, you might give up twenty thirty yards here and there, but um, it's probably a better option than trying to hit shots that you're not quite comfortable with. It's funny because that golf course, we see a lot of it in a lot of ways shapes and forms, but it's it's that two dimensional version of what we're seeing.
Then you get out there and you you know, everybody talks about like, oh, I can't believe how much undulation and slope and and you know, you you can't understand the tenth hole until you've stood on that tee and then ended up on that green and in front of that green, the runoff in front of that green and around that green, to the left. No one can understand, like that's that's like fifteen feet of drop. I mean,
it feels like you can't even see up there. And I've covered a lot of you know, Masters and been out there, But until you're in the ropes and down there and having to hit that shot or or to the left side of number three and to a front left pin, and what the precision and accuracy that it takes to land that, you know, the greens within those greens and the shelving of like number six for a back left pin, and if you miss it right, you've
got absolutely no chance to get up and down. You got no to try to get up, you know, to try to get down in three from that to try to you know, like it takes such accuracy. So that's it kind of makes sense to understand why first timers or amateurs or people who are just coming to that
that that that venue. Then layer in the claustrophobia of the patrons and just the enormity of the idea that it's the Masters, and then you've got friends and family in town that might not normally have made the trip. All of that combined it almost feels like you got no to to set any kind of expectations of like, oh I want to finish, you know, make the cut or top fifteen or try to like it just almost feels unfair to yourself to try to set you know,
I don't know, I mean, it's it's a lot. It's a lot, ye, I think, I mean, And I guess the issue is that you make those realizations ten days off to the things finished. Um, because like obviously you know, as a comparitor, like you try not make those excuses for yourself and you know, it's a it's a golf tournament, like you've played many golf tournaments. But it really is like nothing else, even from from why I was sort of obviously getting to speak to a few of the guys,
they they treat it as this one off event. You know, it's it's it's very intense. Um played nine ols of with Rory on the Wednesday, and you could tell he was he was sort of get up ready to go, like he It felt like he was very intense, very focused.
Not why I expected on a pratch round of someone who you know has achieved what he has, but um, you know, it's just a lot of So it's just it's just a perfect venue for creating that kind of anticipation, I suppose and anxiety because as as you say, it's so it's so difficult to put your way around there and not make mistakes because it's it really is chess.
You know, you need to see where the pin is and you need to plan backwards from that because there's certain places around the Green complex is that you just can't too part from and you can't ga up and down from and so um, yeah, you definitely see once you're there, you realize, you know, how how difficult it is for people that haven't been there before to compete because there's just such a library of dudes and don'ts that you only really find out from from playing in
the event. Um. So I mean I was, I was literally saying that, Andy M the other day we were practicing and saying, you have such a better idea what you're going to do now than this time last year, because um, you know, having watched the guys play on the sort of torment conditions and play it yourself, you just you know, you realize this so many um little trap's been set basically for you, So um, it's gonna you're really interested to watch having played it, so I'm
looking forward to to that. How do you get back, Laird? What's what's your pet from from the Masters last year? Talk me through then what you know? I guess before I having get there. It must have felt like from the time that you get into the Amateur and you go on and you win, and then you play the Open a couple of weeks later, and then you know, you start, you know, in theory, you start almost preparing for like you know, you've got the Masters, in the
US Open, you get to Georgia Cup. Between that whole stretch you you would on from like COVID and and UM and just uh, you know, lack of confidence and you've got injuries and surgeries and you're in a swing chain, you know, sort of self doubt. Then you get into get into the Amateur, you start being able to swing again,
you're now healthy. You win. Then then this magic carpet right unfolds that whole stretch from the moment you win to the time you know, say, to the to the to the day you leave Augusta must have felt like some sort of massive blur, like you got on too a conveyor belt or or a treadmill going at like eight and a half and you just didn't get off. I would imagine for a long time. There's not day goes by when you don't think about, I'm planning the
Master's in April. You know, some's it's kind of difficult to I mean, obviously it's absolute blessing, but it's also difficult in its own way because you're so hyper focused on one tournament and trying to peak for one tournament, um, and you put so much emphasis on it, and that's just not how these guys. It's not how anyone succeeds. You know, they they they try and play the best every week that they play, they prepare for their sort
of schedule. But you know, Rory's not hanging around all year waiting for next week or for for the for the Masters like he's He's you know, no one's doing that. And obviously he's got the sort of pressure of the career, Grand Slam and stuff, hasn't he, But you know, it's just not how people succeed. You can't really decide when
you peak. That's the difficult thing, and trying to force things that never works, and it's it's quite difficult to turn up to the Masters and just let it happen because you know, you've been waiting to play for it, playing it so long. So yeah, yeah, it was. It was certainly a wild ride. Um. And I remember saying to my family, UM, after I'd won the British Amateur, you know, now's a good time to start making some
good decisions and um, ultimately I I didn't do that. Um, but that's only with a benefit of hindsight really, but it's, um, it's a journey. I suppose you learn, you learn from it,
but no, it was. The whole experience was amazing. I mean, obviously getting to play the Open when you're riding that high still and then you know, having an opportunity to to be the answer champion for the year and um, obviously go and go and play knowingly, um, the Majors, but get some invites to tour events and just have the opportunity that not many people get to learn on this crash course of how to become a professional golfer. Really, Um,
so that was really really fun. And then obviously until until I turn pro after the US Open, it was I never really had a chance to draw breath really until you know, probably in November time or December this this last year, because you know, you're you're going from being I'm a champion too, then turning pro and then you've got this sort of um notorieties I suppose of
just having turned pro as yet exam's champion. Then you want to try and make the most of the opportunities that come with that in terms of getting invites into events, and you know, it was it was a very difficult year because I didn't have my game really, I was trying to find, find, um, my goal swing and um, so it was stressful because you feel like you want to make the most of this sort of opportunity and
try and get ahead. But um, you know, you it's gotta keep keep going and you know good things are going to happen again, so UM, you know it's um no, it's been a blessing. It really has been been a lot of fun. So where are you now on the journey? Where do you sit in terms of status and plans and your focus and your swing and your health, your body, your mind, My body is all good, health, all good.
So I mean that's something definitely be thankful for. Um. I had a few issues at the end of last year. But it's probably more mechanic goals and mechanic related and probably a bit of stress at the same time in terms of where I sit. So I guess it's it's quite liberating to say probably at the bottom of the pile. You know, I'm back at the start again in some ways. So you never, um, you never unwin the amateur So that's obviously something that I'll have to to my use
in terms of hopefully getting some invites. But that's literally what it is at the moment, just hoping to get invites into pretty much anything, um, playing some miniature stuff back in the UK, um, and then you know try and you know look at Q school and stuff at the end of this year and I guess you know, Key School for the DP World tour um, and then just to see where see where other opportunities come because there's always there's always stuff that comes up and hopefully, um,
if you can get a few invites and then you play, well you can get things snowballing. And that really is how a lot of how a lot of it happens. So but yeah, I mean it's just it's that's that's the pew your golf. Really It's like last year I was playing these top events, you know, with the best players in the world, and then next year you've got to earn the right to do that all over again. So, um, I'm looking forward to I'm looking forward to, you know, trying to win some events and just get in the
thick of it againswer. So you're sending letters, you're seeking out opportunities, You're you're you're you're building relationships out there or trying to reach tournament directors. You're also tracking tours and trying to figure out how you can get to and qualify for you know, you need a place to play, right, you want to you know, whether you know, whether it's dp World Tour or the Asian Tour what like. You just got to find a play yea to sort of
play regularly. Is that is that the plan? Yeah, it's um, yeah, it's all those things. It's it's just um and then you know, just trying to to make sure you've got everything in place for when you get those opportunities. UM. I've you know, I played played Asian Q School at the end of last year and that was interesting experience. It's um, you know, a lot of guys are in this position where they're they're just going to take any
any chance they can get. You know, I can't say the thought of playing on the Asian Tour is there anything that I had thought about previously? But it's a case of if you can play golf and getting two events, then you go and do it, no matter sort of where it is. So, um, that's that. I guess that's a reality for a lot of people. Um, So that's it will be the interesting and hopefully see a few new parts of the world and the process. But it's um, yes,
it's it's it's the grind, isn't it. It's like you're starting at starting again, and you know, you just try and make the most of ef chancies that come come your way and try and pick up any any so
good fortune that comes along. Really, so, your work ethic is you know, unmatched, right you the time you put into it, whether that's on the range or in the gym or mentally spiritually thinking about I mean, I you know, I've spent enough time with you, I've talked to you and your inner circle enough to know that some people
would say he might work too hard? Is that even something that you would even acknowledge or do you feel like or is there a balance that you're always seeking, trying to make sure that you're not you're not sort of putting too much pressure on yourself or you're working too hard for something specific. Is that something you're continuing You're trying to balance the balance. Yeah, it's really I find it really difficult, um to try and find that balance.
But I've often found when I just take the foot off the gas slightly that good things start to happen, which is really bizarre. Um. But it's hard to do. Um. It's hard to sit there and and and not be working and thinking someone else's you know. But I think I think it is about hitting that balance. I think that the message of working hard is obviously it's a positive one, but I think it's one that a lot of people get wrong. And I'm definitely guilty of that.
You know, I can burn myself out very quickly, and it's just when you add in the lifestyle of the toll prom with with the traveling, and especially in my position where I just don't know when my next opportunity is, you know, I kind of have to stay half fresh, if you know what I mean to go and play torments,
so that's a difficult thing. And not being able to set a schedule, um, you know, just you're just sort of waiting around and you know, if you get told last minute you've got to travel to Thailand or where it is, you know, you don't want to be um of work they've been working flat out for two weeks before that, you know, because you're going to be going
to find it difficult. Um. So it's definitely something I'm I'm trying to do better, trying to sort of engage other aspects of my life and trying to have some some time away from it because it's it's so all consuming, you know, especially when you've got social media full of golf swings and other people's stuff. You know, it's like, yeah, I can find myself sat there looking at golf swings that you know, one o'clock in the morning, like it is.
It's some and thinking about stuff. So the more the more I can simplify that stuff and simplify what I'm working on and take that thinking out of that, I think for me the back because um, you know, I've got no problem with putting into time, but you need to be getting something from it, which is the most important thing. So um, but I think a lot of people have us saying issue. I'd say it's funny because you you know you're down. You were down eight with
nineteen holes to play. You go to the turn at the amateur down seven, and it was like, hey, I just I just want to make sure I don't embarrass myself. It was almost like you let go, right like you, You let go, you stopped, you stopped thinking, you shrunk your expectations into something way more manageable, and then the ball started going in the hole right, and one hole after the next, and you know, and then you go on to win. You know, I would imagine that's that's
the hurdle. That's your biggest hurdle is your own is yourself right like you If you can get to a place where you Laird Shepherd sort of mentally detach and allow the work and effort and energy that you've put into it to take over. If you can put your mind aside, you know, and let your let your playing ability and your competitive nature, athleticism, and your your effort and energy take over, that's probably where you're at your best. Getting there is the is the issue, right, just because
to turn a brain off. That's why, like we've talked about Dustin Johnson is probably that's part of his his magic is he just doesn't He just almost like doesn't care, you know what I mean. He's he does put in the work, he's obviously talent, and he gets out there and he just plays the game. Jordan speech at his height of his powers was when he was just playing a game. He gets into and he gets a mechanical and he guys starts thinking too much. Rory at the height of his powers was when he was a kid
like playing his game. Tiger kept that kid like spirit of just I just want to win. I want to get the ball in the hole. I want to beat these guys. Is there something to all of that for you? Yeah? Something that really helped me. Um, it was specifically aimed at like my putting, but I mean it generally works for most things in life. I'd say, is that, Um, you know, I was told basically, you know you do
all all the right things. You know, you do the right work and the right practice, So once you're out there, you know, you've got to trust that you've done all that and then just just kind of let it go. You can't be trying to control it the same way you are in practice, because it just you know, that's not where you play your best um. And I use this stuff some names there. I mean, like, I think most of the best players in the world are artists when they're playing their best um. And I know that
that goes for me. You know, when I'm playing my best I'm just seeing shots, you know, I'm seeing shapes, and I guess this in this technage, it's quite difficult to remain in that mindset because it's so easy to get dragged away. I remember actually doing something about Padreck Hyington. He said that for majors he would basically go through this process of trying to you know, like turn his brain off in terms of thinking about technical stuff because
he you know, he self professed. He says he loves that side of the game. He said he would basically take him three weeks before each major to you know, get that technical sort of thought away and move to just where he was playing golf. And I think that's you know, where essentially, like everyone wants to be. That's
where I want to be. It's a lot less stressful than than it is when you you know you're you're trying to play under pressure, but you also have got X, Y and Z to think about technically, it's I mean, it just strange you. It's really difficult to do. So UM yeah, that's definitely something that I think and you trust that I'm putting in the right world. But you've got to be doing the right thing first of all. But then if you're doing that, then that's all you
can do. And then when you go and play, just go and be as sort of athletic and creative and three as possible. I suppose what are your goals and aspirations now where we sit here, you know, the end of end of March twenty twenty three and going forward, what's on your list? I mean this year is just to win, um some events basically, UM, I want to win again this year because I feel like that's what it's all about every level. If you can win at every level, you're you're going to be in a good spot.
I mean, if you can win on a mini tour, there's no reason why you can't win at the next level. And that that's I think how you breathe confidence. But also to me, like I guess I'm a big dilemma. I think a lot of guys when they turn pro is that something is their job and you start thinking
about making money. And I guess it's taken me a few months to kind of realize that, you know, if you go and play golf professionally, you can't start out doing it for the money, because one, there's not a lot of cash at the lower levels, but also it's not a good motivator. I've always played golf to try and win tournaments, and because I, like you, I love the game. I love playing golf. Um. So that's my
main goal is just to win. It doesn't matter what tour is, doesn't matter what event you know, it's just to win events. Um. And then I think it would be to secure a basic gear, a card on whether it be Challenge Tour or DP World Tour or wherever. To be able to set a schedule for next year, um, because I feel like that's that's really when you feel like you are a professional golfer, when you're able to sit down in January and set out what you're going
to play and then be able to plan your whole year. UM. I feel like if you don't get to do that. You aren't giving yourself a chance really to see to see even whether you know you're going to enjoy this, because it's very difficult to play without without being able to do that, because at no other point in your career are you going to be basically just sort of
waiting around opportunities. If you're at top amateur, you know what you're playing in for that year, and if you're you know, a top pro or you're on some kind of tour, you can you be able to plan your your year. So that's my two main goals in terms of sort of outcomes. But I guess the main goal is just to keep getting better. And despite having a tough year last year, I feel like I did show signs that I probably was getting better still. It's just
the competition is much tougher. You know. The few events I played on tour ends up making the cut that the don Helm and played pretty decent, and even at the times where I was missing cuts, I missed cuts by one or two shots, and I knew I wasn't. No, I didn't have my game. I didn't have my I didn't really have my my C game really for a lot of it it was. It was very much sort
of trying to survive. But you know, if I can I can miss cup by one or two when I don't really know where the balls going, then I'm going to be able to I'm my best to compete. And that's what I kind of showed him September. So it's kind of that's the goal, is to keep keep keep getting better, but also keep refining my understanding of what I need to do, what my blueprint is, because I think everything becomes um less stressful when you have that
under control. There's no way no one's not rooting for you and for me having now established this relationship and watching from afar and and just you know, obviously rooting for you, you know, beyond beyond just the game of golf,
but just as a person and in life. But I see these rounds that you have, these moments, you know, sixty seven opening round Dunhill, you know, sixty nine Hero Open, BMW seventy one, seventy shoot, sixty nine second round of the Open, almost you know, barely, you know, just barely missing that cut listen, seventy five, seventy six at the
US Open. You know, and again if you're not even feeling like that's your best that you've got and knowing that what's in there, the rounds that you can shoot, and the golf that you can play when you need to, and the puts you can make when you have to. You know, it just seems like the inevitable is you're going to get there. It's just a matter of it's not if, it's when, and it's for me, it seems so clear if you can just find that place that
you need to get to. You know, almost men saying it mentally meaning to that you can not be engaged mentally is where you're you're at your most powerful. You know, that's your that's your strength, and and it's hard for you because it goes against everything that you do on a daily basis. Like you get up, you're consumed by
your work, you're you're you're making yourself better. And then somehow you have to flip a switch and almost go back to like the kid that you know, kid in the backyard trying to learn, you know, just trying to see shots, be that artist that you're talking about and that you know, Bubba's won two masters, and DJ is one at Oakmont, and and and Augusta and Tiger the ultimate artist and and and creativity and that that those early days of Rory and Jordan, Well that's you. That's
in there. You know you have all the shots and you have all the takes to get there. It's really just a matter of of of the stars aligning. And that is the grind, right like Dad's the grind. It's it's nice when you know what you need to do. Um. The real difficult thing is when you don't know what you need to do. UM Like at the US Open, for example, Um, I was I literally had no idea
what I was doing really until Wednesday afternoon. I went to the range and just started to try some old things, old things that used to work for me, like completely different. I've been working on some stuff with I've working on some some swing stuff for probably about six weeks that point seven weeks and for whatever reason, just like you know, it wasn't comfortable, wasn't working. So yeah, Wednesday, just decide, right, this is what I'm gonna have to do. Um and
like stress levels for me or through the roof. Obviously, I've definitely had a lot of scars from Augusta, but also thinking like I can't believe this happened again. You know, I worked work quite hard, and you know, just don't feel comfortable that I'm trying to do. And I'm here on the Wednesday before the event, just making up as I go along on the driving range basically, um, and you know, actually was relatively happy with how I played, but the thought of going into when the US Open,
obviously it's it's the toughest test in golf. Um, that was pretty That was pretty daunting. I'll admit I was a bit stressed, but that Yeah, but it was a lot of a lot of fun in the end. To be able to get through it and be like, I think that was important as well. Um after Augusta too, and I know that I missed the cut by quite a few shots, and but to to just play better and realize and not it's not that far away, um was was good because it would have been difficult to
deal with another sort of really tough result. So yeah, you're exactly right. It's just about it's about getting some consistency and what I'm trying to do, and then that basically leading to me being able to just sort of not think about things as much. And then then good things happen, and I know that. I think one one thing that I'll take with me from this experience for the rest of my career is that, um, it's for me,
it's all about winning golf tournaments. And I know that if I put myself in that position, as you know multiple times last year where I didn't have my game, but you know I had to do X, Y and Z to make a cut or to feel like I was going to make a cut, and I was able to pull through some of those, and UM, you know, I know I've got that respect in me, which I think is quite a difficult one to teach. So UM, I just need to put myself in a position to win,
and I know i'll I'll have a good opportunity. So UM, I'm very much looking forward to getting going, competing again and working way up the ladder because once you have seen the top of the tree the major championships, it's, um, it's it's really motivating because they're just so much fun. They're just so much fun, and obviously with the crowds and everything, it's just you know, you want that feeling, that buzz again. So yeah, I'm looking forward to to
thinking less and playing better. My sense is, if you weren't a golfer, Laird, you'd be a mountain climber, because you seem to just love you love you love the climb. You know, you you you've had, You've overcome so much
adversity in these last several years. Uh not unlike what a lot of people have dealt with, whether that that's covid or or or you know, professional you know, curveballs and and everybody you know, and we say this all the time, everyone's on their own personal grind, but you just you, it is not going to be surprising to me.
Like again, it's not if it's when when I start seeing you know, you at the top of leader boards on a consistent basis, And I don't know where that's going to be, uh you know, I don't know who that will be up against, but I like, you know, you just you got too much fight and you and I think you, I think you you're willing to put in the climb and therefore you get to the tops
of the mountains. You know, you get that's how you get there is because you're willing to put in the put in the time and the effort and energy and I think your effort, your energy, your you know, my biggest away from all my time I've spent with you and also talking to people around you, is the inspiration of your of your passion, your inspiration for your and dedication to the craft. And I think that's that will
result in success. I just I just you have too much talent and too much doggingness to not get to the tops of whatever mountain you set to climb. And I so I can see you, you know, I know you're climbing again, and there's going to be someday soon where we see you at the top again, and then you're gonna probably have to you know, you'll go back down in the mountain. You'll climb again. I just feel
like that's the way. You know, Look at how many mountains Tiger has climbed, or look how many mountains you know, guys like Justin Rose or Different, you know different Adam Scott. You know these guys have climbed mountains multiple time. Darren Clark, you know how look at how long it took for him to win a major. I mean, it just it
just it's all out there. And I think to see Laird Shepherd again holding a big, you know, meaningful trophy feels like that's the inevitable, So well, I hope you're right, Um,
yeah I am. Occasionally I'll go back and look at just the final sort of like two minutes from the amateur on the on the highlights and kind of relive that moment a little bit um and come to the realization that at times when I'm feeling like I'm not getting anywhere, you know, it was so worth it, um and again that if you go, I go, I've seen it, amor.
But that's you playing golf. That is like you at the height of your powers in which you're hitting shots and you're hitting into us, but I gotta get here your strategy, you're plotting your your get on the green, you're making the ball goes in the hole. And then it's like that momentum you feed off I can see you know. Then you get that when you get that swagger and you get this that that that pep in
your step. It's like, I don't know that just you look very hard to beat at that point when you get there, it's it's not going to be easy to knock you out. So yeah, get back there. You know, as often as possible because it's fun. It's fun to watch, and then it's probably fun for you too. And then when you do that, when you do that, you know you got to you gotta probably also remind yourself to enjoy it, you know, like it just uh, it's it's that,
it's the balance. So, um, we're following, we're rooting you on were uh we're you know, I speak on behalf of a lot of people I know, um, not just family and friends, but all the all the people who have who have been along on this journey with you.
So um JN. Thank you enough for a share in your story with us multiple times allowing us to sort of tag along at times that are that have been you know, pressure packed and distracting, and being so forthcoming with your with your thoughts and emotions and what you're going through. It means means a lot has been an honor to sort of help tell your story because it's
one hell of a story. And like you said, they'll never then never take away that amateur championship from you, and you're forever on that trophy into the annals of the greatest you know, record book and all of golf and and uh and keep going. It's it's you know, look forward to watching where you where you end up. Well, thank you very much, it's been it's been surreal to to meet you and be able to share this story.
It's funny. I was thinking to myself, it's some before this happened, I was sometimes, um imagine myself like speaking on a podcast, because I listened to so many of them, um, you know, not just on golf, but randomly on other topics, and you know, you always kind of like think what
would I say if I was on one? And I guess that's what people talk about in terms of sort of trying to manifest stuff into happening, you know, And so I just find it really really a privilege to be able to sort of speak to you guys and haven't met you guys. It's just been been great And yeah, well we'll continue climbing. See you back at the top
of another mountain, that's for sure. I've been big pleaded to win, made a fortune with my sho round the table and never thought I could find them, but Win hit me like a cannon ball. Now she is losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head. Can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out. Trying not to think what I'm thinking about.