Fire Drill 064: Manic Monday

thinking about. Hello. This is Alan shipping Nuck back to the Fire Drill Podcast, as always, joined by Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. It's such a big moment of golf, we thought we'd bring in a couple of extra voices for this very special pod. We have Mattchenella and super agent Mac Barnhardt coming in from Idaho where he's been snowboarding with the likes of Davis Love. Will get to all that soon, but we thought we would start with

Ryan and the Mega Monday Qualifier here in Scottsdale. Ryan's coming straight from the golf course. He's all he's all jacked up because he lives with this stuff. Ryan. I know we lost a few a few players because the Monday finishing pebble beats and that slightly damp in your spirits. But how was this Monday? What are the storylines and just bring it to life for our listeners please. Yeah. I actually think guys, uh, is that it got better

because the tour players didn't make it. Um. You know all of those guys are doing okay, and the three stories that got through our unreal Um. I put out a tweet, uh, thirty five combined seasons as pros from the three guys that have got through, uh, that got through today and this is their combined fourth PGA Tour event. They have four PGA Tour events prior to this, thirty five years, thirty five seasons. Andre Metzger has been a pro since two thousand and seven and this is his

second PGA Tour event ever. Uh And it's for a twenty million dollar person. I heard today and I don't know if it's acurate, but last place is forty three dollars, So making the cut is a game changer for these guys. Um. I mean it just perfectly sums up uh why I love Mondays Brett White five years ago had a brain infection and couldn't walk or talk, and Monday qualified for one of the most important that one of the biggest

tour events, the biggest purse ever. UH. Dalton Ward went to a junior college and average seventy nine and then quit and is now playing in at an elevated event. And Andre Metsicer, although a many tour legend, literally said to me today, I said, ah that you know he lives in Scottsdale, has an apartment at Scosta with his wife and kids. And said, I said, well, at least you saved some money on UH on lodging. And he said,

what money. I don't have any money. And so if those three stories don't make what I cover worthwhile, I can't help you. It doesn't get it. It It doesn't get any better than that. I don't know what to say. And I watched all three of the guys, UH sit there and wait for scores to come in. Look at every group, hold their breath. Read how the people are walking towards scoring because the chance of a lifetime uh, it's coming their way now. And I've said it a

million times. If the PGA Tour doesn't lean into this part. This is the advantage they have. This is what they have, not only storytelling on the Monday Que level, but all levels. So I know how we said we're going around the horn. I just dominated the first three minutes. I apologize and that's it, right, Ryan, No no playoff today, that's unusual. Yeah, no playoff today. It was great because it was gonna get dark and would had to had to uh, I

had to go into tomorrow. And these guys that haven't had the opportunity, as Mac knows, as hard to sleep on a on on that when it's staring in in the face from not from now until the morning is a lot of time to think about how much money twenty million dollars is And so I think it's just better that it went off like this. Great stories, tons of tour guys. I give a lot of respect to guys like Martin trainer. Uh finished took a flight this

morning and then rushed over Harrison. Andyicott played with Will Bateman, the actor in the in UH as his pro am partner. Will Bateman flew him in his private jet to l A so he could catch a flight to Phoenix. I mean, this is Monday que too. This was I couldn't even I couldn't keep all the stories away. It's too much to cover. You mean Jason Bateman or Will our Net which, yeah, whatever, both of those guys, they were both on the plane. That's how I screwed it up. Jason Bateman and Will

Arnette were on the plane. SmartLess. This has become an episode of smartst Um. I mean, it's true that this is the number one advantage of the PGA tour has over Say Live is that it's not a closed shop, and you can't have these exceptionally charming stories. And there's still elements of a meritocracy where guys can can barge their way into the field and and change your life in one great week. And Andre Metzker, You've told me many stories about him. He's a Dakotas toward legend. And

there's one particularly colorful tale. It's time that you you've put it out into the wild. Ryan, even sitting on this for too many years, what is the most famous story? No, I refuse, I refused to write tell this story because I'm going to write it. It's eight better in the written word. He's a legend. He likes to party, and uh, I love him, and I refuse to tell this story without a full understanding of everything that went into it.

And uh, it needs contacts. I don't know why. I don't know what context I would learn, but uh, that's the that's the tease for my next story. Andre Messer and the Dakota Steward. Michael, this is the guy you should catting for, by the way, Okay, thank you Ryan, Ryan. What can a guy make if anything on a Monday night? These three guys in particular, can they sign up for anything Taylor made or anything else so they'll get him quick cash come Thursday morning? Uh no, uh no, some

of these guys have like a little bonus. Uh. Brett is a titlist guy, so I would assume he'll he gets like three thousand dollars for getting into the event. Um, Matt could speak better to you. Know, Brett's story is really great. His agent has already sent me a message in thanking me. I assume it will resonate with a lot of people, and so I assume he can find little deals like Mark did, uh to kind of help

them through the week. Yeah, they get paid now, right, don't don't don't they get a stipend for playing now if you if you're not a member. I mean, I know the regular guys get five thousand against and I think the other guys they don't get that. Yeah, I don't know. I confirmed today that Monday qualifiers do not get the five thousand dollars. PGA Tour can't afford the extra fifteen thousand dollars. It's gonna break it. Sorry. Yeah, the guys that needed the most, Yeah, the guys that

needed the most, Yeah, they don't get it. Ryan, do you think this guy would have rather Monday qualified for uh John Deere with less purse with fifty fifty best players in the world not playing. Um, I mean it's quite a jump from Monday qualifying to go on a

play and against the filled that stacked. I mean it's a stacked you know, it's like it's like a player's right, um, and not not just you know, I'm not saying these guys shouldn't be there, but Mac, I think, I mean, it's a great question, Mac, uh, I as you know better than I you do you talk to these players every day because I've always loved the mental aspect of these players. I asked Andre tonight I was like, do you believe that you can be on the PGA Tour.

This is the guy who's forty one years old and has played two PGA Tour events, And I said, do you belong on the PGA Tour? And he said, And whether that's true or not, it doesn't matter. He believes it.

And so I don't know if he thinks that far ahead mac like or thinks about options like that, would he rather play in the John Dear I think he believes that he can he can win the way management despite the odds that it probably it's going to be a lottery ticket basically probably not that good odds well, and even more on that, it gets even harder because these are guys who used to playing with nobody watching, and now you come to the crucible of TPC Scottsdale

with you know, a hundred thousand plus people, a lot of big Yahoo factor, the noise, the energy, the distractions. I mean to think that you could go from the Dakoda's Tour and then navigate that's completely different competitive environment. Just it just adds to the romance if one of these guys don't even make the cut, because it would be a phenomenal accomplishment. I think it becomes a two day story now to see if they can make a cut instead of having to follow a four day story.

In what you're seeing who wins the tournament. Like the idea that you're now just following guys just to see if they could, like like Baldwin and A T and T last year, which was can you make the cut? And then it becomes a turner. It's a one day tournament FTMA cut to see how much he can impact his life. It's just so much more interesting to me than one of these top players in the world just getting another one point eight million dollar check or whatever

they're gonna be. It just um, it's no contest for me, you know. The tour kind of like Augusta has gone away from printing money, right it'll tell you how much money to tall me FedEx cup points. Now money is back into the conversation. It's all everybody talks about. And it's kind of funny. And Scott's tale is gonna be talking about the money and there's a football studium around the part three. You can't make it more non traditional

than that, and so it's it's kind of comical. That now money is the only It's like the lottery's gotten big enough for people to play by tickets now or something. Uh, this is gonna be fun to watch Ryan. If these get Ryan, if these guys top ten this week, do they get into Honda? Yes? Uh, he had what's next week Genesis, so they would not get into Genesis and then uh, and they would get into Honda, and they would So I mean that gets to Matt's point. In

other words, you've got competitions within competitions. They just wanted a tremendous competition. Get into the field. Now they can make a cut. Can they play you're good enough golf and Saturday and send you to top ten and get another started, another start at Honda. You know, careers have started on less likely things than that. Yeah, I mean I think for especially like Andre, I mean and and

Brett too. I mean, Brett was talking today about how he's saving money here and saving money there as all these guys do and girls that are charging it. And I think a little pressure off guys like Andre if he makes the cut because you finished his dead last forty three thousand might as well be a million. And so, you know, a little pressure off and you can just kind of free wheel. It's but yeah, I mean, I said to Jake, our producer, and you know we've agreed,

there's nothing like this in sports. You don't there is no free throw contest to join the Lakers, and it's not joined the Lakers and sit on the end of the bench. It's joined the Lakers, and you have the same exact chance as everybody else does. Like obviously talent aside. When you tee it up, you're equal to Rory McElroy on Monday. And there's nothing like it in sports. I obviously love it, but I love it. That's great stuff.

So to max point, you know, money makes the world go around, and especially the golf world right now, and uh, it'll be a big part of of the Phoenix Open backstory. But it's certainly had an effect on the term that just ended in Pebble Beach because you know Pebble used to get a pretty good field. Tiger played its a good amountain in the early years. You know, Phil was

a staple. Uh, you had to you had a guys, you know, some of the Florida guys never played it whatever, but it was a respectable field and there were always some stars at the top, where there was Dustin Johnson, whom I of her. But with the advent of Middle Eastern money and now especially live golf and and the saut inter National, you know, pell Beach has has been decimated from the standpoint of attracting players, and um, you know, we saw a lot of guys withdraw on before the

tournament even ended. And it's a shame because those of us who were on the ground, like Matt and myself, there's no term, there's more fun to be at. The pros are relaxed, the amateurs are good fun. There's there's parties and dinners and and music every night. And when you're on the grounds, it's it's an incredible experience. But if you're watching at home, um, you know, there's not enough cameras at Spyglass or Monterey Peninsula, and there's not

enough no stars on the leaderboard. So Mac, I'm curious for your overview about you know that they we're starting to really see it now that this chasm between the big, big events like Phoenix and the non elevated events like Pebble, And are you hearing from players like they are now building their whole schedule around the elevated events, and what is your take on on sort of the house versus

the have mores on the PG tour right now. Well, it's the first time that I in my career thirty years, that I've ever heard of players schedule based on purse. The usually based on their playing, you know, the courses they like, the rest schedule, three on one off, that kind of thing. That's the first time I've ever heard them talking about money, and not that winning three million and wonderful, but winning a million and a half is I mean astonishing, and why they even cared And I

think that one of the problems. And you see this, and I won't go to the player, but there have been players that have played the week schedule on tour. There's always been elevated that's an unelevated events. They just never said it. There were always events that but there were players that would be able to finish in the top thirty and fed X points playing all the small events, playing against the least competition that you can play in,

and they get top thirty. In the next year, they lose their card because now they start and the memorials and the colonials and the Bay Hills, they play the elevated events, and again I'm using elevated just because the fields are stronger, and they lose their card playing against

that competition. And it's happened quite a few times. And now you've got guys that haven't won on tour, that have no security other than keeping their card this year, that are scheduling, skipping the Honda, skipping the San Diego, skipping the ones that are quote non elevated for the purse. And if I'm those guys, I'm thinking, let me go get a win, let me go prove I can beat these people before I gotta go play where the tour

makes the top fifty players come and beat them. So it's changed the whole dynamic and I've never seen anything like it. I mean, they really should just be honing their skills and getting good at golf. Looking at how much they make it should be relevant. It really shouldn't be. It's a great insight Mac, you know, and Tiger used to always say that, and Jordan's Speed said the exact same thing. When it's come win at every level of which you're planning, and don't play at a level which

you're not ready to play. Uh so like if you can top ten at John Deere, that doesn't mean can top ten at the Genesis. It's a big difference in golf course in field. So I think it's a it's a great insight, and I think it would be a very shrewd manager would say why don't you play this tournament because this win will get you in the Masters and you're not in the Masters Max two polite, but I know he was thinking of probably Fred funk right, who made a career out of winning opposite events and

and secondary events. But Ryan Gay and Wayne Levy, a lot of guys Fred did when the players are so when But you're right, there's a lot of guys that created quite nice career. If you can look at the tournaments they won, and they were they would have been considered unelevated events based on the strength of field, not the money necessarily. But it's okay, I mean, I mean that's you know, we go back to Triple A baseball.

There's it's okay to go play the weaker fields. But and then, if you have to know thyself, you know some of these guys, even though they may have a really incredible year and win, they still shouldn't just step themselves up and go on, I'm gonna play Memorial, I'm gonna play golf course that don't fit their game. Um. I mean, but you see it. And again I guess

they want to test themselves against the best. But I think once you're settled and you've got your tour wins and you can you know you've got some time, then go test. But if I, if I haven't won, I'm going nowhere near these strong fields and if I can help it. Matt, you know you you were on the grounds of Pebble last week. We got to hang out a little bit. Can you speak to that that um sort of break between anyone who's on the grounds of

that tournament and and those watching at home. And I know you had a really fun week popping around and talking to people, and uh, if you're at Pebble Beach and you're in the Gulf world, how how great and how valuable the week is that? Yeah? Before I get to that. By the way, just and Rose winds today hasn't one in four years gets into the Masters. Like Justin Rose is a guy who just who just cleaned up. I mean, what what an opportunity he just had had one of these events to turn the back end of

his career around. I mean, good for him, by the way, all of him. I mean he's now he's not relevant again, and that you know from what I was told from good sources. He was. He was a live guy, like forty two years old. He you know, done high burn rate back home and he needed he needed something and he just got. He just got what he needed. And good for him at at a venue that obviously mattered to him. But I was just going to talk about how you know, Steve John is a friend of ours,

the tournament director three courses, rain Wind. They had a heart attack one of the caddies you know bow Hostler's group, you know the guy he put put his head and you know Lucas Nelson's lap. They brought him back to life. He's still be intended to at at the local hospital. All that, you know, Extra Day TV Tale, all this, the egos and the logistics and all that goes into Pebble Beach. But when you, like you say, and when you're there, it is so much fun. The venues they're playing,

the people who are there. You know, they've done a great job of getting relevant celebrities to be a part of athletes Josh Alan and Aaron Rodgers one that they I mean, music every night no matter where you turn, there's multiple multiple The volunteers party was insane, you know Eric Church and and uh Toby who is the Who's the Lucas Nelson's actually blistered the blister the show, I

mean everyone went crazy. I mean it was Ray Romano, you know, Darius Rucker one after the next getting up and performing one trying to do out do the other. Clint Eastwood their backstage, you know, Bill Murray coming up and kissing the ring and giving respects to Clean Eastwood. It was It's an incredible event. And part of me feels bad for them because they don't get the field.

Part of me respects the fact that they're like, you know what, whoever is here wants to be here, and whoever is gonna be here is gonna have a great time, regardless of the elements of what's happening. They put on a great event at a great venue and they got it done, and they deserve credit. All the maintenance crew that had to deal with the the weather and the elements, and the squeegee and the greens I mean it was exhaustive. I'm sure everybody be a part of that, but they

got it done and they deserve credit. Yeah, you know, I know some of the board members of the help run the tournament, and their attitude is really interesting. They don't worry about the pros who don't show up, Like that tournament has donated mortgage hearity than any other on the PGA Tour, and they feel like their mandate is ray as much money as possible for the community. And so that you know, the amateurs not only did they pay thirty thou dollars, but some some kick in extra

just because they love the event. Some guys say, well, if you give me a spot, I'll I'll round up two hundred thousand, whatever it may be. And it is an incredible, uh community resource to have that tournament and that that's that's the people who run it. That's what they focus on. And I think it's admirable. We we get, we get so wrapped up in and who's not there but the pros that come, you know, they play hard.

They still give out ten million dollars or playing through the best course golf courses on the planet, and so, uh, it's you know, it's obviously my hometown event, and next year it's it hasn't officially been named an elevated event, but it's going to be. And of course it will be a delight to see all the best players on those golf courses. And there's probably be some tweaks to the format. You know, they may just go thirty six holes with the the amateurs and may only go two courses.

Like a lot of things are on the table to make that whole, that whole event go. But um, in the end, it was a pretty great show. And um, you know, Justin Rose is funny because I talked about Tory Pines about his decision not to go live and he said he got a very good offer and he really thought about it, and um, you know he was it was it was a real thing. It's really it was tangible. But he said, I just felt like to achieve my goals in golf, I was better serving the

PGA Tour. And so it's cool he was rewarded with the w and you know, clearly he's got one US Open, but he thinks he can pick off another major before all said and done, and he the the weekly grind of the tours where he knows he's gonna be sharpest, and so I kind of have a new newfound respect for Rose. And I know, Michael you've you've covered him a bit here and there through the years. What are

your impressions of of Justin and you have any stories? Uh, the last time I was with him for any length of time at all was when he one in San Diego. As Matt was saying, already three years ago, it seems like it seems like yesterday, and uh uh it's he would have seen like the protetypocal guy to go live. Uh, except for one very significant effect, I think, And Alan, you probably can speak to this far better than I. Uh, he's represented by Mark Steinberg and none of mark Steinberg's

is that still correct? On none of mark steinberg disguise have gone gone live? Okay, Uh so can you imagine, Well, Alan Phillison, maybe you can finish that sentence for me. Uh yeah, Well we'll throw this to Mac in a second. But that is definitely and this is all gonna be in my book because it's a fascinating part of this

whole piece is you have this GSC agency. Almost all of their guys went live Excel, which is Mark Steinberg's None of them have gone and that there's there's and I've talked to players in both stables and they admit, you know, there's a there's a momentum and there's almost a pure pressure and you're not immune to that. But that's what I asked really specifically. I said, you know, do you feel like Steinberg kind of because he's he's all onto the PGA tour. It's was Tiger like, did

you feel like he steered you away from Live? And he said no, I mean, they brought me the offer and it was up to me to decide, and I made the decision. And if I had decided to go live, they would have supported it. And so uh, he debunked that theory a little bit, but um, not really. I mean, but you know, in his mind, he was given he was They fought hard for him to get the best offer.

And I talked to another person who works for X XL and they said, you know, a lot of our guys got offers and we brought to them and we we talked it out and um, and ultimately they made their own choice to to go one direction or the other. But um, I'm curious your take mac on um how the landscape has sort of changed in the agency business because it's the first time you have a real competitor you can play off against, um, you know, one tour

against the other and UM. Because it's it's so sensitive, you know, the agents have to have a lot of these conversations in the shadows because the players have to be careful and how is how is your life and your colleagues life change in this era of live golf amazing? UM. The going back to you know, clients do make their own decisions, guys. I don't know anybody it's got the power to move a guy if he's going somewhere, if

he's going to change clubs or whatever. Maybe there's a little softer, maybe there's a little selling on each side of it. But now, if the players made their decisions, I don't think that's got anything to do with it. But yeah, but this is where the fund begins now.

So in our business signing, the top players that come out of that are gonna come out now with an opportunity to have a tour card right out of college, which you know, before I've got to get a guy to get on the corn ferry and then I've got So it's two years to really elevate to get where you can get PGA Tour contracts. So now getting the kids that can get on tour that will earn cars out of college is a huge deal, right, And a

lot of that comes from starts and events. So in other words, they get exemptions into PGA Tour events and make cuts. It helps their college plan to get on tour. So obviously, if you're well liked and your player can get more starts, and this is what we'll be watching, or there's certain agencies that their their recruits seem to get more starts, the kids in college that they're recruiting

or they're playing more um. And then the most fascinating thing, let's just go and say, and I don't I don't use this likely, but let's say the next Tiger Woods shows up and he's a junior in college and he gets the points to become a tour player, and you sign him. And it used to be your first call

would be to you know, the club manufacturer or clothing manufacturer. Well, now your first call would a guest be to Jay Monahan to say, Jay, you know I've got this kid, and I'm sure he's going to get an offer from Live. What can we do? And that's a very strange call. And it's not leveraging, it's just what you have to do, because do they want that call? Does the tour wants you to call and say, listen, I've got a young

kid and lives gonna go after him. That's going to be the biggest change and how the business is approached and getting the kids that are going to get on tour. This you know, this Gordon Sergeant kid, who's just phenomenal, great kid. You know, you know if he's if he earns enough points to get his tour card comes right out. The value of that kid versus a kid that's got

to go through corn Ferry is remarkable. It's remarkable the difference, right and and seriously, the will the tour get in a position to where it starts offering stuff to these players not to go Live? I mean it's kind of what P I P is, right, I mean, it's kind of what it is. So yeah, it's changed the whole dynamic in that sense, Mac Mac, How would that work? How can Jay Monahan just offer up money to some

kids out of college on what basis. I didn't say he could, but I'm saying I've never had the question and I probably won't get one of these guys that you know, I'm you know, but but what us? But right now, what they've done, they've given where a college player can earn points and become straight to the tour, not go to Q School, Corn Ferry, nothing right, But that's just an exemption. That's not I mean, that's they get the five thousand, I guess guaranteed, but they don't.

That's it. And if you've got Live offering twenty five million, does the tour want to know about that? Do they want to say that? And I'll use Gordon Sergeant just because he's the kid right now that I mean, if Live makes a run at him, but fifty million or whatever some I'm silly number, does the tour want you to call them before? Or is it just no? This is we're gonna give him one year on the tour. So I don't know. I don't know how Jay Monahan does. I don't know where the p ip money came from.

I don't know where any of it came from. But I just know that this is what in my business people are talking about, is how do we handle that. Well, now, now there's the t G l Um, that's become just another way to reward players who are loyalty. That's not necessarily gonna go to a kid out of college, but that's become a thank you for for your service to a lot of these goals. When you take you take the pit money, you take the TGL money, that's that

that's that's going to be real money. Um, that hasn't that has nothing to do with what your score is at the end of the day. I don't I'm not saying any of this is going to happen, but if you see the trend of where it's going, you see you see guys getting repaid for their loyalty. But let's say that next Tiger Woods comes out and they know it's this got this kind of impact on the game, would the tour negotiate against Live to keep him? Well, I mean it's it's like the PGA Tour. You they're

now giving away cards to college kids. I mean, they never would have done that in the past, But that's to try and thwart Live Golf from from poaching all the young players. I mean, there's no doubt they're they're fighting back and that's what these elevated events are. And um, so yeah, I mean the tour has reshaped its business model because of lives. So to think that they're not gonna pull every lever that they have to to try

and keep players, I mean they clearly are. And you know, we all know about the Bubba Watson kind of threw the lid off of it, and you know about this. To Mac, it's like the tour cannot pay appearance fees, but the tournament sponsor can can pay a guy to show up at a cocktail party. You know, it's here's your three thousand dollars for having a drink and telling a couple of jokes. And that's been going on for a long time, and that that may or may not accelerate.

I mean, there's there's a there's a lot of ways to get money into the pockets of the players that are not you know, visible to the to the public. Hey Mack, as we've discussed many times, you're more of a life coach, really an adviser than you know, quote just just an agent. Um when someone says something like

Max Hooma, you know you can't buy my dreams. But you've got another kid who you know, the families hundreds of thousand dollars in debt because of you know, all the money they've spent playing amateur golf, and like, now there's a live offers say you can take, you can

actually make money. Now, how do you How do you as an advisor play those things out when you're talking talking to golfers or or or how you know in the future might be talking to golfers about that sort of decision I think, I mean, I think it's gonna change, but no, I do it just like I would do with any offer, whether it's an appearance fee or a contract to represent a certain brand. You lay it all out in the facts, and the facts are, what are

your obligations, what do you get paid for it? And and then once you do those two things, then you go into the pros and cons. You know, if you do this, this is kind of what you're looking at. And if you do that, if you if you sign with this company, you must play the driver. And if that driver at some point doesn't fit you, you can't get out. You'll lose your whole contracts a lot, you know, so you would do it. No differently, it's just lay the pros and cons. I mean, that's your job. It's

just to give them the opportunities. Um, and they're gonna come. You know, you said one of the things that change, and um, you know, they just come out and said if a kid comes out of college and plays a live event or an unauthorized event, he's banned for a year from the tour. And so there's a lot of us in this business are thinking, Wow, I wonder if they could take and if you're a manager and you take a player to live, could they suspend your credentials

for a year? Could they you know, what can they do? I don't know, but we've laughed about it in a sense that you know, they could say we took a player to live, you're out, and then you didn't take a player to live, you're in. I mean, I don't know. Again, it's these are just things that we've never had these conversations about. And most of the time when I taught the parents, they're wanting just enough money for their kids

to pursue their dream. That's what they want. If they can get enough contract money to where they can play three or four years. Just what it really takes to get on tour. I mean, it's a rule. Um, that's all I ever wanted. Now parents are like how much money is out there, like like big money? And does it compete with the club companies, does it complete with

the clothing companies. I mean, one of the things you got understand is if if the Live goes to this team model, the managers are not going to be able to sell the club contracts, the clothing contracts, the logos. They're all gonna be team driven. So you could sell a player to Live, but that's the end of your revenue stream with that kid, because now it's all based

on the team. Right. Um, So there's I mean, there's all kinds of reasons to go and not go, but these are all possible scenarios that would happen that you know, g S I think is the company you said is send a bunch of guys there. Well, if all their guys lose all their corporate deals because they're on Live and that agent is not, they're not going to do as well the next year after those signing bonuses are gone. Right. So I mean it's just like I said, it's a

different conversation. But I'll tell you this, every kid that I've talked to has asked about live. Everyone it's fair. I mean, it's another opportunity. Well they they and and with elevated events being even more elevated and less opportunities coming down the line as more sponsors get piste and leave the PGA Tour or can't afford the PGA Tour, Live is actually going to only be become more relevant

if time goes by correct or not. What totally could I mean, let's face it, what Alan just said about a t n T. The amount of money that that they give the local charities, That's what the PGA Tour has always been to me. The the g g O in Greensboro and the rs M and St. Simon's and the those things were community driven projects to raise money for local I mean, if you go to Sanderson Farms, they never had the strongest field, but go look at the people that show up to cheer and and go

to the chalais and and it's a community deal. That's what I've always thought the tour was. Um, I didn't they weren't. You had some big events, you know, you had the memorials, and you had you know, the players, But in reality, each PGA Tour event was just a community driven event. And and now do you go away from that kind of like NASCAR? Did you know they got away from their communities where they had racing fans

and they went to places didn't have racing fans. And I think there's a little bit of burnout and people thinking that these golfers are getting greedy about money. They just you know, it's just never talked about. It was one thing that golf was different. So it's it's crazy out there. Ryan. You had, Um, you had to tweet about the Asian Tour event because counsual fans may be confused. But the Saudi event that was just played this last week, that's not live. Um, that's just part of the Asian

Tour schedule. But you had to tweet, you know, showing a lot of big time pleasure there and something of the fact like if you thought the many guys are gonna show up for an Asian Tour event, you know, a year or two ago, Um, you had been crazy. I'm sure if I'm stating that exactly right. But in your world, are you hearing more talk about Asia as a landing place? Um? And as as the second tier tour events if they start to wither away and there's

fear of playing opportunities. Um, I mean, did you do you think that that that's really accelerating now as AS Live has become more real thing and um, the Asian Tour investments kicking in. Yeah. Yeah. But also it's brought up the Asian Tour has kind of always been kind of a third tier and now they're prominent in the golf world and they have to clean up a lot of their stuff. Uh. They give out tons of exemptions.

Each event has twenty seven invites. They've kind of done things where you could you could pay your way into final stage. Ah. It happened here uh this year that a guy that missed at first stage in Arizona for Asian t Q School has a relationship with Phil Mickelson. All of a sudden, this guy appeared in final stage

even though we missed at first stage, got his card. Uh. You know, those are little things that need to be cleaned up as they uh, you know, start to to move up this thing because it is a very real option for players right now. A lot of grinders want to play on the Asian Tour because it's a viable option to make a living. But I've already heard from multiple guys that have gotten their Asian Tour card how frustrated they are about not being able to get in

a few of these events to start. So it's like, you know, this is this is becoming a prominent golf tour is to learn how to manage all of these things. Uh, they've kind of operated in the shadows for so long that they have to clean it up. But it's a viable option. They're q school was huge. It will be even bigger every year as long as these guys start to get some opportunities. So, um, the Gulf world is dividing. That just dis all there is to it. There's more

options for people to do it. And uh as mcnos and all of you guys know that you start to lose some of these top players or they get spread out, then I'm not sure anybody wins, but I know the tour loses. Hey Man, to to follow up on something, uh Max said, Uh, you talked to a lot of people who are you know, at the highest levels of the game. There are forty four PGA Tour events are gonna be played this year At some point I mentioned Jay Monahan trying to match live tournament for tournament is

gonna say, you guys got a cough up more. How many events do you think from what you're here and how many events do you think we could we could lose The Tour could lose between I think you could lose fourteen to fifteen Wow, if you're going up to only five million to play in an elevate to be an elevated event, and the Tour isn't subsidizing any of that, and other events are obviously gonna have to you know, pony up some or you're just going to be left

to a depleted field. How many can justify any kind of expense when you're down to a field of you know, non marquee players, A T and T might be able to do it, you know that, you know, without being an elevated event because of the celebrities, You're gonna have to see some changes in models. I mean, I just think the schedule is going to get shorter anyway, where what happens to World Golf Championships. I mean these next

you know, six to eighteen months. I just think it's going to be one of the most tumultuous times in professional golf history, it would be why out matter what you're saying, pans out, because then the Live Tour and the PGA Tour would essentially have very similar schedules. You know, twenty years so events, so a few more than that on the PGA Tour, everyone with big names and and and really big pay days, and then a few Sanderson farms that are hanging on for the sake of the community.

And then do you have room then do you have room for live to actually coexist? Is there an opportunity to have like a split schedule, so you have a PGA Tour time of the year and you have a Live Tour time of the year. You have the majors in which you know, then then where does the world Golf ranket? What happens there? I mean, all of this has got this is going to be this is gonna be wild. From a corporate standpoint, sponsorship standpoint, media standpoint,

players standpoint, agent standpoint, it's everything. You know, how many books are you gonna write? Alan see if I survived this one? But yeah, I'm not sure if the casual fans, what's that? In what way? Physically physically like like, who's after all all the Yeah, a number of ways I could perish, but the I'm not sure the casual I understands, like the center is barely holding this year for the PGA Tour. Like they were able to cop it all together.

They threw a bunch of money at the problem, they kept the players they could keep, and they just bought themselves a year. But the ship is really gonna hit the fan in two thousand four when all they have to go to all these sponsors and they have to tell them what they want and need from them, and companies that may have already been rethinking the cost of hosting when that cost doubles or triples. Um, they're gonna

start hemorrhaging sponsors. And then it's gonna get really interesting because you know, I been talking to a lot of players about this. Um. You know, like Peter mal Naughty. He's one of the four now now five player directors for the PGA Tour, and he's the only one who's not a very you know, accomplished golfer. He's won a bunch of tournaments and and this and that, And I said, I mean, is it your role to represent you know, the middle class on Tori said, that's why I did this,

Like we have to have a voice. He's like, I'm not comfortable with the way things got shoved through at that Delaware meeting. We went outside of our normal governance and someone's got to stand up for the little guy. And he's like, I'm not sure I wanted to be that person, but someone had to do it. And I talked to Kevin Streelman at Pebble Beach. Um, you know, he's had a very nice career, but he's never been one of the top top guys. And he's he's up to possibly be on the board next year, and um,

I said, can we talk? He said, I'm dying to talk, but I can't do it right now. There's just too much going on. You know, There's there's gonna be a big player meeting at bay Hill, and that's when a lot of stuff is gonna have to get hashed out and it's gonna be fraught. I mean, to be in that room would be spectacular, because, um, the players on the PG Tour still don't know what the fields are

going to be for these elevated events next year. What do you have to do to be one of the guys, is it top fifty, top seventy, top one dred Like kekn Bradley told me, He's like, I don't even know what the target is, Like, I don't know what my goal is for this year. So I'm just saying I got to get in the top fifty because they're gonna have to at least have fifty guys in those fields.

But um, it's it's a very unusual moment in the game where the players are starting to there's this this discontent is fermenting and you know, I've asked some of them, why not have why not have a union? You only support doesn't have a union. You got the top twenty guys in the secret meeting setting policy for two other dudes who are in very different places in their career, Like, how is that even possible? And a lot of the players are like it's it sucks. You know, I'm not

happy about it. Um. I understand the stars are important and we got to take care of them, but what about the rest of us? And so this is all bubbling under the surface, and um, depending on on how some of these decisions go and what happens with the sponsors, what happens with the schedule. It could it could get really messy, and of course that's what I'm rooting for, because I always root for anarchy. But um, the Tours managed to have this season come off somewhat smoothly and

and have this appearance of a reshape PG tour. But everything is up for grabs right now. Michael, what we're gonna say, Yeah, that's all very well said Alan Jay Monna Han has done actually a masterful job getting this year off the ground, and Greg Norman and his people have actually a masterful job getting Live up and running as fast as they did. But this is a very big,

very big. But golf is leaderless right now. And all the traditional models that we four and Mac who who had to click off and and all of our listeners basically grew up on the models are gone. Like the great model of baseball pre Bud Sealing, of a commissioner who looks out for the fans, the owners and the players, that's gone. I mean that used to existing golf. It's gone. There's nobody in this whole discussion. All we're talking about is, you know, to use the phrase we've used, you know,

the rich, the rich and the richer. Yet Basically, no one's talking about the ordinary fan and going to Sanderson Farms and going to Colonial or you know, trying to snag a ticket for for more if you're lucky enough. The fan is being completely ignored here. There's been never any discussion of what can we do to make this PG two are more lively, more interesting, more team events,

more mixed events, whatever it might be. It's just business as usual and cater to the super rich and the super talented, and it's got people very frustrated and is really turning people off. And they're all forgetting about who pays the bills around here, and of course it is the fan. So I feel like when when you get into a conversation linguist and you really think about where

the PUGA Tour is going, it's lost. I I would I would say all of that is totally true, because I've talked to enough tournament sponsors to tell you that j Monhan and the PGA Tour and whatever you quote as leadership is not doing anything to talk with the sponsors are with these other players outside the top twenty. They're talking at them, They're telling him exactly what the planet there is no actual let's sit down, Let's hear

some thoughts. Let's make sure they're focused on those those marquee players, and let the chips fall where they may. Where these are the top players, these are where they're gonna play. This is the amount amount you're gonna and Alan, you said they kind of secured this year. I'm not sure they have. I'm not so sure that there's not gonna be there's not gonna be sponsors who are gonna walk in the middle of this year and say, you know what, based on what you're telling us about what

the future is. I'm out now. I'm out because I'm not I'm not like the way we're being treated or or how we're being dealt with, or how we're not a part of the process. I mean, have they secured here? I just don't think that's it, that's a done deal yet. That would be epic. I mean, Ryan, what does this

mean to to your constituency? Like if the PG Tour becomes even more of a closed shop, it's fewer tournaments and it's smaller fields, Like do we do we assume they'll pump more money into the KFT and and you can at least make a decent living there or is it just an absolute free for all. You gotta go to Asia, you gotta go to Japan, you gotta go Australasia, you gotta go to Europe. Like what does this mean

for your guys? Yeah, I mean I've always been scared that once lived became a viable option, and now we're at these elevated events that were headed for to live tours. Right, It's like, I don't understand how the corn ferry and this tour under a tour can survive. Um, you know, everyone was like it creates more playing opportunities. You us it has in the short term, but I'm just not sure if that's a viable option, uh in the long term.

And so you know that the it's pretty well understood that Monday Qualifiers aren't going to be a part of the elevated events going forward. It's going to be some sort of reduced field and uh it's it's unfortunate. Um, you know, I I tweeted it out tonight, is is I really think? And it's just not about Monday Qualifiers. It's about the competitions. Michael said it a billion times, is who makes the cut and who doesn't and all those kinds of things are what the tour has overlived.

And I just don't understand leading the other way. I will never understand it. Obviously I'm biased, I get that, but I just don't understand why you're trying to Jay Monahan has said that they can't compete dollar for dollar, so why try to uh lean into something else and whatever? Since he said that, by the all he's done is tried to compete dollar for dollar every from the day that he said that I can't compete dollar for dollar, every move has been to compete dollar for dollar. Every move. Yeah,

that's what all said. And it's sad because you know, Abraham Answer won the tournament in Saudi Arabia, and he's such an appealing player, I mean, devastatingly handsome, has a great backstory. I love how tidy his game is, and it seems like he could he could be a guy who played really well on big stages. And it's only his third win and he's like, Okay, he's built towards something really cool. But now the live season is gonna

start and he's just gonna recede from view. And you know, he earned some world ranking points in this Asian Tour event that might help get him into the majors, but it's not a sure thing based on how We'll see

how the numbers go. And it's like, you know, I was really really excited about Abraham answer a couple of years ago, as as this up and coming international superstar who was carrying the flag for you know, the great country met Go and all this stuff, and and um, it was a nice win, but how do you build on it when you when you go, you go back to live where no one's really watching the competition that closely.

So even that was kind of a bummer. Like all those players jilted Pebble Beach, they went to Saudi Arabia to take the money, but um, the result in my mind is devalued. So it's just ties up what you're saying, Michael, do you what you want to say? Our colleague Jeff Ogilvy has made this point repeatedly to us. We all to different degrees, have a very American centric view. We grew up on the PG Tour, We love golf, we wish we could play at that level. Um, but I

have not Abraham answers name. First off, I didn't know who won in Saudi Arabe until you just said it. That's so much I care and I love golf to Abraham answer his name, Abe answer, and I've enjoyed interviewing him a lot. His name is not come into my mind once since he went to live. And so to those who say us let him go, there's a lot to be said for just let him go, because Colin Marikawa is a great young talent, and I'm glad he's stating for now if you care about the pH A Tour,

which I do. But if he left, there's there be, there'll be and there'll be a new one. So they're really I'm really as Matt said, you know all he's done his match dollar for dollar. I'm really not sure this strategy plays out in the long term. And I wish I could say the name. But someone who's really smart in golf that we all know said to me, I'd said, what just what would you say to j

He'd say, I'd say let him go. And once you take that mindset and you realize that we the fans are in control, it's the game where the great the greatness of the game is the game, and the greatness of professional golf is that we care about what happens. Uh, so we're going to care about what happens. And you know, no, but that you know, Mac as you said, had to had to jump off and got to love his his insight and perspective because I love hearing from the business

side of of the players. But Max said it all along from day one. If you're the tour let him go, let him go, and stay true to who you are and what you are and the model you have. And then I mean, and and that just didn't happen. But that's exactly what Max said from day one. I mean, I go back to Ryan's monologue at the start of this podcast, was so beautiful and eloquent about this is what it's all about. I mean, it's the competition, it's

the human element. And you know, we're lucky if we still have Monday cues and and we still have tournaments like Pebble Beach where we had a bunch of guys fighting for their livelihoods and there was there was a palpable hunger among you know. I mean, speaking of Pumil Naughty, he had a chance to change his whole career. He didn't get it done, but he played really well, and he can build on that. There was a bunch of

guys that leaderboard that I found intriguing. They weren't big stars, but it doesn't mean they can't be in a year or two. And so um it is. It's a very interesting, interesting moment in all of this, um Alan, you can absolutely write a book for the ages here because what we are really seeing here, we we have this intense interest in this narrow thing. But this narrow thing is revealing our culture where it is right now, more than

almost anything you could imagine. I mean, it dovetails right off of the Trump election and the fascination with celebrity that got Trump elected in the first place. Uh, we don't know what MBSs motives are here. If he's just trying to be if he's just trying to disrupt corporate America. He's shown that he didn't, you know, with the snap of the finger and a few billion dollars in years a hundred billion dollars more where that came from. So uh,

these are scarily interesting. He's trying to court corporate America. I've been reading a lot of MBS. I'm like on my third book now, and I mean he's obsessed with turning Saudi Arabia into a modern commercial center for banking and for tourism and for all of these things. And that's why they're willing to lose money on this little golf league, is because it gets them into the room with all the power brokers and and all the big banks and all the big sponsors and all the guys

in the pro ams and so um. It's you know, it's just a trojan horse to try and to try and get into these these other industries and these other conversations and so um. He I mean, he is a disruptive force. I mean his vision for Saudi Arabia was to completely modernize it in every possible way. Um. And except for how he treat his own citizens, you know, has always been this what they do publicly and what

they do privately. In in the international community they want to see being seen as progressive, and at home they crack down on descent and and you know there's brutal oppression. But it's this dichotomy there and so um, that's where the golf comes in. I mean, it's not a it's not a secret. He's trying to court the decision makers and he's trying to he's trying to buy a seat the table at all these powerful institutions, and golf is

a great way to do it. But Alan, I don't Alan, I don't like his chances of getting into Augusta National. He's building his own evidently. Yeah, that was another well said Brian. That was another news break. Some piece of land cells in Augusta, Georgia, and all of a sudden Live Golf is going to build their own Augusta National and then they're gonna host something the week of the Masters, and it all went the whole rumor's mill went kind of crazy. And Matt, you were helpful in debunking that.

But just I mean, parcels of lands all the time to golf developers, and but in this overheated era, like all of a sudden has this jeo political importance and it's just kind of wild. What can you give us

the TikTok on that story? Well, only just that I was debunking Core and Crenshaw being a part of of a piece of property near Augustic National in which it would be built for the South East and you know, compete for you know, some sort of attention around the time of the Masters, to which you know Core and Crenshaw. That's an absolute no, in no way, shape or form. Ben Crunshall hosts the Champions dinner to two time Masters winner.

He's like Mr Bobby Jones, historian, you know, Augusta enthusiast, and it would be there would be not a chance in hell, not only for the fact that they're busy and they're booked for the next three or four years. But it's just not Scott says, who manages, you know, helps with the business of corn Crunch, has said absolutely not. This is a definitive no. So that's the only thing

I was debunking. Then Scotty called me back and said, actually the land that they were shown and that uh they were you know, the plans that they sort of you know, observed, actually wasn't the land that was talked about by one of the one of the social handles. And so there there's you know, now now there is there could be two pieces of land that are being purchasing.

I'd say, what's happening with the land around Augusta is still a mystery, but I can definitely tell you that corn Crunch are not going to be involved that's funny. I mean, just the juiciness never ends. Um I will say a much needed tonic for these troubling times is the new episode of The Grind that drops on February seven. This episode three, and it follows this young woman named Page Crawford on the road to the LPGA. She's living in her van and she traveling with her girlfriend and

it's just the sweetest, most intimate story. And um I have rarely consumed a piece of content that left me wanting to root for an athlete more than this this story. And um I hope all you all you folks out there have seen episodes one and two, which which were obviously really cool, and Ryan French played a big part

in them. And it's clear see your pebble Beach and you're on the PGA tour and and you know, Ryan and Mark Baldwin are hopping from tournament to tournament and airport to airport, and there was like an incredible energy and sort of propulsion to those two episodes. And this one has a different feeling. It's it's the sort of meditative and it's beautiful, and um I really hope everyone

checks out this episode. We're super proud of it, and I think it elevates this whole series to a different place because it just shows all these all these players are doing it their own way and it's unique. So before we go, I just I just wanted to give a shout out to episode three of The Grind, which is probably my favorite one, and um, I implore all of you to carve out twenty minutes to enjoy it. Yeah. I had a really good conversation with Page and making

Uh it's a great addition. We'll have that out later in the week. And uh, yeah, it's it's very good. When you live in a van and cook every meal in that van, that is truly the Grind. How about the pullout toilet? I mean at that point when they when they reveal their their porta potty, which is something that looks like a box. It looks like the box the size of something you get shoes in, and that's where they use as a restaurant. I'm like, what that

if that's not the ground? I mean Page Crawford, Mark Baldwin and then Andre Metzger Dalton Ward Brett White, like three guys that just got in Today's Monday Cue. That to me is just so much more interesting and compelling and worth time and energy and interest. It's just so much better. Uh So that's where I'm going to continue to focus my energy and attention. It's just thank you Ryan for bringing all these to life, bring him to life. Thank you guys for giving me the opportunity it's been today.

Like h uh, I mean I think I hope that that's what comes through, but like, I truly love that stuff. It was so cool to see. Uh you know, there was probably fifty or a hundred fans out there total today, and like, I love that we have all had some sort of small effect. I'm telling you that's four that's forty seven to ninety seven more fans than are normal at a normal Monday. Que. Okay, so like ninety seven more than any other Monday que. So uh, I mean, it's just it was just uh it was great. It's

it's just awesome. I uh, super super fired up about what happened today. It's a ideal and I hope that all three make the cut. Were you fired up with that last Versias was riding shotgun for you today? That

son of a bitch I just steal my gig. Well, people, believing he had people believing he was trying to steal just I'm reading comments right now that are still met at last, like hey you why don't you know went out to the one day qualifier with Ryan and he had this running bit or he's like, Wow, these Monday qualifiers are great. Someone should really write about these, And to his everlasting credit, he just kept a bit going the whole day, like and like he was breaking all

these stories and all this news and Allen. The best part of it is in the first one that he says he's doing this, I'm sitting right behind him, like it's not like he just did this on his own. I'm sitting in the car with him in the first couple of them, like, this is not It's just not. It was. It was great Twitter content. It really made the day fun. And U Ryan's stories, which we're gonna get off this podcast. We can start typing it. That'll

be up tomorrow. Um well, I should say on February seven, depending on when you listen to this. His whole dispatch from from the Mega a Monday Qualify here in Phoenix. So, uh, you know, it's just another intriguing and and fascinating and maddening wee can golf. But as as Michael said eloquently, the game is the game. The game never changes, and if you can filter out some of these other things that the beauty of golf and a tournament golf, it still remains. So um, look forward to you not what

Ryan's been up to. I'll have an ask Allen up on on the on the website. We'll have the Grind episode. Uh, there's all kinds of good stuff. We have the accompanying podcast that's called the Grind Podcast that that Ryan mentioned where he goes sort of the story behind the story with Paige Crawford, and who knows what other surprises are coming. We know Michael's working on a couple of cool stories. So, as always, thank you for listening to these fire drills.

Thanks for checking out our stuff on on fire Pit Collective dot com. Any any partying words before we go, Fellas, these are interesting times. He doesn't look like Michael's in one of those movies. Doesn't look like when Michael's in one of those movies. He's headed to heaven, like up in the top corners. It's like light at the corner, yes, very much. Yeah, it's like, oh, no, Michael's passing away. That's alright, Michael, stay here with us. We're gonna We're

gonna let Michael move on to the hereafter. So um, this is Alan Schipnuk for Ryan French Matchinella, Michael Bamberger and Mac Barnhart sign off from this fire. Drill thinks as always for listening, and we'll do it again soon. That's the end, then big play to win. Made a fortune with my ship game. I ran the table and thought I could fall. Then the winter hit me like a cannon ball, and now I can't shake is losing the street. Every road I take isn't head in the street.

I got thoughts in my head, can't get aloud, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head. I can't get them out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.