Fire Drill 062: The Grind Continues - At Every Level

like subscribe, do those things. Uh. We're super happy about it, proud of it, and it'll start tomorrow. UM. And we covered in the first part of the podcast. We talked John rom obviously, I told the Davis Thompson story from the Barracuda. We talked about Drew Love Uh, we talked about the c W. We talked about Dawson's Creek. There's a couple of great stories. A great story about Claude Harmon that Michael has um, a great story about VG

and Tiger UH from Alan. It's just awesome little anecdotal stories. I'm pretty proud of myself. I didn't even I didn't even mean to say that word. I like it. Didn't like write it down or anything. I just said anecdotal by myself, uh and used it correctly. I believe, I'm pretty sure. Um, without further ado, here's the three of

us talking golf that got in my head. Can't get jan nothing what I'm thinking about, can't get him now, nothing, think well I'm thinking about all right, Well, gentlemen, it was quite an interesting weekend golf. We're gonna get to all of it, but first I want to talk about the most exciting thing that happened to the Firefit Collective in a while, which is the release of our docuseries The Grind. We've been talking about it and teasing it for a very long time. It's finally upon us on Tuesday,

January twenty worth. We're gonna have the first episode available on our our website and fire Pit Collective dot com and of course on our YouTube channel. And uh, you know, Ryan, you're quite an inspiration for this whole project because it kind of builds upon your reporting and and you shining a light on on the fringes of professional golf and and the struggles and and the heartbreaks and the occasional triumphs. Um. So you've seen a lot of the early episodes, you

make some very important cameos, especially in episode two. But um, what does this mean to you? Ryan? How excited are you? What do you think of these episodes? Like like bring the listeners into this little world. Yeah, I'm working on an article and the and the opening paragraph is is something that I've talked a lot about with Michael. I was in a campground one of the first caddy one of the first caddy trips that my dad and I made, and uh, next to me was a was a pro golfer.

This was a public restroom at a campground and there was a pro golf for next to me, and it just blew my mind. Like I was like, what, you know, I have always been a golf nerd, but I didn't really think about life off the course as much. And so from that moment, which was eight twenty years ago, uh, to this a TV show about it has just been

like just a crazy ride. And um, and I'm so excited because I think, you know, I've put a lot of thought into why my account as has become popular in those things, and I think it is the fact that most everybody can relate to someone chasing their dreams. It's hard to relate to the top players in the world, and not that we don't appreciate them and all those kind of things, but it's just hard to relate to.

And I think all of us can can relate to the sacrifices that not only the player makes, their family makes, our friends make financially, time wise, on the road, all those kind of things, and uh, this show is going to take you inside of that and it's just super uh super awesome. On a quick aside note, the first one is kind of like the down of and the reality of progolf. The second one is up. Mark got an exemption into uh the A T and T and Mark Stowt and immediately went onto the range for five

hours straight. He loved it. Uh, we love it. But you'll meet a bunch of people that are really like chasing their dream. It's awesome. Well, and the marking question is is Mark Baldwin. You know, we we've tracked him for a little while in different ways on on on this on this site, but these shows bring it to life in such an immediate sort of intimate way. Um. And we love typed articles and we love we love podcasts.

You know, we all double in those mediums, but something about the cameras so revealing, and um, you know we're in the car, we're in the house that he's played, um for for all these players. It's not just Mark, I mean, um, he's fact. He's a huge part of episodes one and two. And then then we start telling other stories and UM, so it's it's really this. The

scale this project is incredible. We had um a hundred and twenty hours of raw footage that we're filmed across most of two thousand and twenty two and including visits to Scotland and Ireland. Um, you know there was there was five field producers, eight video editors, a dozen cameramen. All of us have contributed words in different ways to voiceovers and and to the narrative storytelling. And it's just

a monumental effort from everyone here at the collective. And you know, I've had chance to really drill down the first five episodes especially, and the the storytelling is just fantastic. And the production values are HBO quality or Netflix quality whatever you'd expect. When when when you when eque up what looks like a very big budget you know production, it's it's just incredible. So we're we're all super proud

of it. Um. You know, Michael, you've you you've not been as intimately involved as Ryan, but you've been, you've been been a part of this and you've been you've been watching from afar. What kind of energy are you detecting around this? Well? I think this is storytelling at its best because, uh, you know, especially when you get to be my uh sixty two, you realize that it's the biggest, one of the oldest cliches known to mankind. But uh, it really is all about the journey and

not the destination. And golf captures at so incredibly well. And Ryan's beat captures that, uh so incredibly well. And even if you think back about Tiger and his Hall of Fame remarks, who was up there for roughly I would say twenty minutes. Sixteen in the minutes were about his amateur days playing you know, his mom dropped him off into junior ben and he and his dad, you know, hunting for golf balls in the woods whatever it was

at the at the Navy course. So, uh, Ryan and this series and some of the stuff I've done about you know, catting for golfers trying to make it and you know, Alan, you're writing about Rich Beam and Steve to Plant. Just that storytelling never gets started because it reminds us on the most fundamental level of what we're

trying to do with our lives. So I think it's absolutely beautiful, spectacular, Uh and a great nod of the of the cap, tip of the cap to uh, to all the people who make it possible for us to do the kind of storytelling that we're doing. Yeah, shout out to a golf tech. They're presenting sponsor of the of the Whole Grind docuseries, which will be fifteen episodes, and uh, yeah, I mean talking about the journey of the episode three, My is just so heartwarming. It follows

page Crawford. She's, you know, thirty years old now, she's been chasing it for a long time. She was a high school basketball star. I mean, she's an athlete, came to golf a little bit late and um travels the rooms around the mini tours, living in a van with her girlfriend, who's a really delightful present, and they just have this this this very sweet relationship. Their skateboarding, they're

rock climbing, they're they're hiking in the hills. I mean, they kind of remind me of some of the people I know who live in big sir. You know, they've got that free spirit energy. And and yet she's a very you know, she's a very determined athlete, and she's trying to make it to the LPGA and and you know, we're we're in the van with them and we're driving from Idaho to Oregon, and uh, they're cooking on their

little stove and they've got the little dog. And it's just the most heartwarming, intimate portrayal of a professional athlete you can imagine. And and so yeah, there's that. That's the kind of those are the kind of surprises. And and you know these are not household names. That was the whole point. Um. You know, we all love watching Nelly core to play golf. But um, she's going to be fine whether she wins the Dinah Shore or not.

You know, like she's on only one trajectory. And um, but these these players on the margins, it's you know, pages just just literally trying to make money to put they can they can barbecue dinner that night. And if if she's if he's not able to I mean she's she's going to find another job, and that that dramatic tension, as as Ryan has talked about so much, is just a different level of of interest for a fan. You know, they're they're playing for their their lives and that's what's

so thrilling about it. Yeah, that that has been I mean, obviously I I've known it because I'm part of this world, but seeing it on the show has really driven home the selflessness of the people not that are not the players, uh my Mark's wife, Sarah Pages, uh girlfriend, Joe Hook's parents. Um, you know these are people that travel to events, Pages girlfriend some marketing jobs so remotely so you know they

can afford their van life and dinner. And and these people behind the scenes that will introduce you to our sacrificing so their son or girlfriend or husband can chase their dream. And uh, that has been a very interesting part of this show. And I think you'll see that and that it isn't easy. Um, as we all know, marriage isn't isn't perfect, and uh, it's even harder when you're on the road six days a week, or in like Pages case, you're together two seven sixty five days

a year. That says a lot about a relationship. Um, and so it is the ups and downs. The first episode is Mark Baldwin and us chasing Mondays and him not playing well and uh, some family stuff going on, and that's that's real life. And I always tell this story about that first episode is, Uh, Mark's son is having some health issues that you'll see in the episode, and uh, it's it's pretty hairy for a bit. And on Monday, Mark never brought it up with a playing

group and I asked him about it. I said, why didn't you bring it up? And he said, you know, we're all going through something out here. No one's gonna feel sorry for me and they shouldn't. Uh, this is this is the life. So um it's I'm super excited about it. Yeah. And then episode episode two really traces um last year's Pellal Beach program where Ryan's catting from Mark and it's a perfect distillation of the highs and lows of the life of a Golver and a Gaddy

for that matter, and all the people around them. Um, you know, from you can you can have you can have such a thrilling week and so many great things can happen, and then you miss judged the wind a couple of times, you make a couple of bad swings and you can go crashing on the leaderboard. But what could have changed your life turns out to be sort of a whole home finished and in the span of

a couple of hours. Like I mean, you know chronicles you're despair Ryan When when when you as you're reliving these things now as you're watching the episodes, Um, you know you have a little distance of time from from when they actually transpired. Like what what? What emotions are inspired within you? Yeah? All of the same emotions that I feel now. Just uh Like I mean Mark and

I talked about it privately. It's like you'll never be able to not think about the round at Sunday at Pebble and what it would have done had it been a sixty seven or sixty eight. And it's not like that's not a far fetched dream, right, I mean, he had shot a bogey free round at the hardest course in the rotation Spy last three days earlier. This isn't like we're not it's not a pipe dream to think that he could have shot sixty eight. He could have and it would have changed his life. Uh So, the

emotions I got watching it. Uh, we're the same that I had that week. We were on top of the world on Saturday night and you feel like ship driving in a car, canceling flights, uh, finding another flight, And twenty four hours later, you're standing on a matt at a very average golf course playing a Monday qualifier where you have to shoot a sixty three to get in.

And uh, that's that's the reality of pro golf in a nutshell and twenty in about a thirty six hour span Saturday, make the cut T nineteen, have a chance to change your life. Play poorly Sunday, fly to Phoenix playing a municipal course, having to shoot sixty three, don't play well there, and you're home at Tuesday and everybody's forgot about you. No one cares about you. Uh that's that's the reality of pro golf. Yeah, well not no one,

because we we were. Our cameras are there, and I think when when when the viewers um And of course Mark, there may be some folks other saying, but I think I know a lot about Mark Balbum already. You know, you guys have written about him. But he's such a unique pro athlete, I mean, he's so smart and cerebral, and he has you can play the guitar, and his interests in books and music and movies or run really deep and he's he's very expressive about what he's going through.

And um, his his wife pops into this story. She's she's really sweet and has a great perspective and everything. And um, I mean, if if you watch this episode and and you don't wind up love and Mark Baldwin or loving Page Crawford or Joe Hooks, who's a huge part of episodes four and five, Like these are athletes who were so easy to root for because they're just they're they're dreamers and then it's a it's almost an impossible dream, but they won't let go of it. And

there's something admirable about that. You know, I think I'm we're probably too pragmatic, at least I am. I gotta you know, if I had if I had spent ten years trying to get hired by a local newspaper sending him stories and getting paid twenty bucks for them and and they never published any I would have found another line of work. But that's these guys just keep going and it's remarkable. How quick technical question for it. So how much do this how much does the viewer have

to pay to watch these episodes? Well, thanks to the generosity of Golf Tech and the Firefloy Collective, they're gonna be They're gonna be free on on our website and on our YouTube channel. Um and so it's a very it's a very delightful viewing experience. Um. Kind. So a quick question about sixty three. Uh, I'm always talking about I'd like to know what you both think about this. So you know, Ryan mentioned you often have to shoot a sixty three, and these Monday qualifiers sixty three could

play off, you might have to shoot sixty two. It's some of them. Uh, you never know. I mean there's a lot of good golfers out there. So the other day Alan will know this name, others may not. But Jim Langley was the long time had professional Cyperus Point. He tragically lost the use of his He had the course record at Cyperus Point with Hogan and others of sixty three. He tragically lost the use of his right hand after an accident. Then he shot a one handed

left handed one at Cypress Point. You see were handed clubs now, I would say if you had to, so I wrote the following, there are probably five thousand golfers in the world who can shoot sixty three on any given day at Cypress Point. There might be a handful of people who can shoot a one handed. So somebody who read it said five thousand. There's no way. So

here's my question to you both. How many people in the world do you think there are that can on a good Now Cypress is short, let's but let's just use Cypress as example. But think of any of course you wish. How many people in the world do you think there are that can shoot Because we often focus on just a hundred or two golfers, how many golfers are there in the world who can shoot sixty three at Cyprus Point on any given day. Well, just to just to get more granular, here are we talking about

a cassle around? Are we talking to tournament pressure pencil in your pocket? You know, no gimmese note like it's a little different. I would say there's tens of thousands of guys who can shoot sixty three at Cyprus Point on any given day with their buddies. Um, you know, there's a lot of dude, you played college golf who

now remembers at Whisper Rock. They're not playing competitively, but they can take it deep um Well said, So let's let's let's let's change the tournament conditions because I agree with that. It's tens of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands possible. Ryan, what do you tournament conditions when it matters. There's a purse, there's fans, there's a score with a camera on camera on how many guys can shoot sixty three had a really good course? Not a thousand?

I think. I think it's more you probably just looking across all the mini tours, all the professional tours, there's a few thousand guys who have a card right and they can do it. You're probably the four thousand. Yeah, I would. I think it's even on the right day, on the right day. But I mean, that's even what's interesting, Ryan, You track this all those guys that sixty three in the Mondays and there's pressure on the Mondays. We know that,

but there's not a gallery, there's not really TV. There's it's it's it's just it's kind of this this gray area between tournament golf and playing with your your buddies. Right then they these guys go to the to the PGA Tour event. They're clearly playing well. They just got sixty three on the Monday, and you know, Corey Connors and a couple others have have have continued it for six more days. But um, you know what is make the cut or something like, yeah, make the cut and

to go back to the Mondays. There is pressure once you're playing well. But I'll go to the one time I caddied in with Mark in the Barracuda where we got through. There's no pressure at the beginning because you know you have no chance. Basically it's like a crab shoots, so there's no real like it's we I remember what like my whe night Keddy from uh from Mark at that Baracouted Monday two years ago. We hadn't seen each other in a while and we were literally just catching

up on the front nine. There's no expectations, like you know, you have to shoot a ridiculously low score and so all of a sudden on nine he was five under through nine and we're like, oh, like we're in this, you know, and then the pressure starts. But like before that, you're just like, like, again Scott faw said, who was a master of numbers and odds and those kind of things. Puts puts the like getting through a Monday at around

seven percent. Okay, So like there is no real pressure when your tee off on the first hole, especially you make an early bogey. There's no pressure at all because you're just like, yeah, I'm out of it. I have no chance. Uh. But then yes, you got to go on the big stage and there's cameras and there's you have only had one day to prepare and you know that there's no tomorrow. That's going back to the sun. Day at Pebble is like we're playing with Alonto Griffin

and Davis Riley. They played like crap to you know what, They're going to tee it up next week. Uh, we weren't. And so all of those factors equal of the guys that Monday making. Now that being said, a large portion of mondays you handed them a PGA Tour card, they would do just fine. It's the ultimate question all of sports, like why do you some players play better when the

lights come on and some players don't. And you know, I was yesterday, I was at the Cowboys forty Niners playoff game had great seats close to the field and uh, you know there's we're behind the Cowboys on the Cowboys side and close enough. Like these guys are just you forget how what physical specimens they are. They're just like immense.

They blot out the sun. And everyone who made in the NFL on a good team in the playoffs, these are the best of the best athletes on the whole land it and yet there's a razor thin divide there between the guys who can get it done when it really matters and and can't. And all the time, you know, pump an iron and watching film like that helps you. But some guys just make the plays and some don't. And I mean you extend that out to the professional

golf as well. It's it's it's what's so fascinating about sports. And one of the things that you know, watching just a little bit of play of football this year and you see the wild range of body types that make it to the NFL. You know, from the kickers to the lineman. It's just even from the defensive line in the offensive line. It's absolutely why. I mean, you see guys who are borderline obese. And then you see some guys d fifty five pounds and they play in the

same game. But I take note of it because golf uniquely does you know, there are not so uniquely I mean tennis, I would say the same. You have to have it all in golf. Uh. And that's why Tiger and its prime was so stunning to watch. You have to you have to have it all. You can't just be that. You can't just be the place kicker, you can't just be the you know, the rusher. You gotta you have to do it all, and you have to have a body type that will do it all in

mind that will do it all. And I don't know, just kind of occurred to me for the first time. It's one of the many things that makes golf special is that you can't be as super specialist. You can't just be a great putter. Just as a quick side into that, it relates to something you just said. Um. I was once asking Gary McCord about the great putters he had ever seen, and I was talking about you know, Trevino and Nicholas and and and Palm or Palmer was

a great putter. And then I brought up Lauren Roberts and Brad Facts and who are famously part of the conversation with the great putters of all time. And then McCord said, well, what have they won? And to his point to this general conversation of you know, Sunday afternoon versus Monday qualifying, So in the afternoon to try to get into next week's event versus Monday qualifying. That's what this game, as we know it is all about. Is that point to Sunday afternoon and what are you gonna do?

And uh so, for Mark Paul would get himself in position to play, meaning golf on a Sunday afternoon is one thing. But then to get it done on a Sunday afternoon, as Nicholas and Palmer and Tigert it again and again and again, that's completely on another level. Yeah. Well, and so just to broaden this conversation a little more, we should tip our cap to John Ram who is a guy who can shoot sixty three any day the week and actually is doing it right now. It seems like, yeah,

that's always shooting, is sixty three shooting. And so I was at Cappalua where he went crazy deep and won the tournament crazy after bogey on one on Sunday, I know, nine back and at that the moment, and so he I sneaked into this little Q and A with with Monahan and and Rom that they do for the champion. They do it for the It's like this private function

for the Century organizers. And Rom was coming up and I was coming up the stairs behind him, and this security guard almost didn't let him in because here's a guy. He's he's got kind of short legs, he's kind of he's kind of stumpy, and his shirt was a little untucked, and he wasn't he didn't have his hat on. His hair is all messy. He did not look like one of the most elite athletes roaming the planet right now.

You know, you look at John rom he doesn't use that same athleticism that say a tiger did um when when he was prowling around out there, and it was just a funny reminder that you know, not that if you're not paying attention, like these guys don't necessarily look like quintessential professional athletes. But John Rom is um. You know, he's a prideful guy. And I think last year when a bunch of dudes went to number one and he

wasn't one of them. I think, I think that little fire and you know, I asked him about that at Kapalua and he's he's talked about it since like he's um, he's fired up. I mean the guys on a rampage um now obviously UM. I will say, even though both Kappela and the Hope yield low scores, traditionally they're very

different tests. I mean, Tap Lou, you have to play the wind and and the lie and the uphill downhill and funnel the ball off funky slopes, and it's very creative and manageative golf, whereas the Hope is just dome and you got yeah, one seventy two. It's just a stock eight iron right at the flag every time and for him for him to blow away the field, you know, on back to back on such a different kind of test, I think, is it's revealing of of how good this

guy really is. Well, so you gotta play with a m though at the Hope for three days maybe before that's an issue too? Uh used to be five days? Can you imagine ninety holes? That was crazy? Michael. I have a question for you leave the flag in when you put now, don't you I do? Did you watch Davis Thompson's put on seventeen and as it changed your mind? I didn't? What did it? Did it hit it and not going? What happened? Yeah? He had a fifty ft around seventeen to time for the lead and it was

going speedily. There is debate about whether it would have gone in anyway, but it pinched the flag and and pinched out. I don't know. That flag looks gonna help you more than hurt you. It's gonna do a little bit of both, but it's gonna help you more than hurt you. The only time I would really not leave that flag in is if it was if it was blowy and the flag stick was all over the place and it was one distracting you, and two could lean in and stop, you know about coming in at three

o'clock and the flag six leaning towards three o'clock. And then of course then then skaltender. You know you don't want that. I've got enough of that in my life. But uh no, that's hard luck. I missed it. But I'm gonna tell my Davis Thompson's story. I've held out of this for a year and a half. Uh, this is no one else is holding onto it. David Thompson anecdote for for you know, year and a half. Uh, Jake, you're not allowed to use this as a social clip.

So at the Barracuda Mark and I get paired with Davis Thompson. He is on the t He says hello, but it is very like just sticks out his hand. I'm not even sure he said the words hello. He never said And this is not an exaggeration. He never said a sing word the rest of the round. Not good shot, not go fund yourself. Not a single word, including on a hole. Now, I want to take the people listening back two. There was such a forest fire

that the round was almost canceled. There's smoke everywhere. Okay, you could hardly see down the fairway. That's how bad. And think and all these volunteers are graciously out there, They've literally paid to be out there, right, and they're spotting and it has become even more important because the smoke, you can't see your ball land. So Mark is long. Davis is very long. On the fourth hole, fifth hole,

he marking him hit one way down the fairway. Uh, volunteer comes out of the smoke and comes up and says, Wow, guys, I've been here all week and I haven't seen two people this far down. You know, I haven't seen two balls this far down. Mark, thank you so much. Davis doesn't even look at him, doesn't say a word to him. It was beyond bizarre. So I had to go back to talk to people who we played with the rest of the weekend. They're like, nothing, didn't say word, doesn't

say anything. Mark chipped in for Eagle. Nothing, literally nothing. It was the most bizarre thing I've ever been a part of. Like, hey, listen. The next day we played with Joseph Bramlett. Super quiet but very nice. Okay, like I don't mind quiet, you want to be quiet and be in your own world. Totally get it. It was the wildest thing I have ever seen. Doesn't talk to anybody, and I don't know if you saw any clips, it hasn't changed much. The dude barely raises his hands, has

no emotion. Wild Mark tried to engage him in a thing and goes, hey, man, you went to Georgia hau and he went yep. That was the only word he said for the first time. It was insane. It was insane. Yeah, I mean it gets to the point like, like you say, it's fine everyone everyone in a competitive environment is going to do it a different way. But that's almost distracting to your play partners. It's kind of rude, honestly, like you're not even in using the basic social graces of

of being a playing partner. Yeah, and the volunteer one was like you, it was offensive. I mean, like the guy is standing out in literal smoke. You could at least say thank you or give him a head nod or something. You know. Well, Michael, I mean you've caddied um famously European Tour and and the PGA Tour, and you've probably seen some some unusual behavior. Shall we say,

Where where does that land for you? It's almost psychopathic, you know, to be completely isolated from the activity around you. But it does have a lot of precedent golf. This story is not true, but people but Claude Harmon, Butcher's father used to tell it to make the point. Uh, you guys will probably know it, but maybe not. Uh. Claude Harmon, for those who don't know, was famously the

head pro at both Wingfoot and Seminal. And while he had those two head pro jobs, basically while going from his winter job at Seminole to his summer job at Wingfoot, stopped at Augustin National, played in the Masters and won it and he was the last club pro uh twent But anyway he was close to Hogan and uh and as the story goes, uh, uh he made a one. Claude Harmer made a one on twelve of the Part three over raised Creek, and Hogan stiff didn't. Hogan didn't

say a thing to his friend. Hogan stiffs one. Uh makes his own putt and walking to thirteen, all Hogan says to Claure Harman is I do believe that's the first two I've made there in quite some time, or something with something along those lines. Uh. But golf will

reveal the soul like nothing else. And uh. Now, Peter Turvan and a guy caddied for in your he was he was conversant with himself if he wasn't really conversing, but he was a classic New Englander and one of his things if he was long with a wooden driver whale wooden driver laminated Wilson whale. Uh wonging he was he was, you know too eighty in the air maybe maybe and uh but anyway, if another guy killed one and was out there with Peter, Peter would say yep,

and you know that was that was high praise from Peter. Uh. I did see a guy Sarah Gate blank on his name right now, but he was an Argentine golfer and he missed her short. Punny took his butter head and was scared to watch, and he smashed his forehead not with the head of the putter, but with the shaft right in the forehead walking off the green after missing short. That's the most psychopathic behavior I had ever seen because there wasn't any blood, but you had he caught it

the wrong way, it would have been a mess. Uh uh. Anyway, Yeah, golful Alan, who are we with recently? Who oh rich kind? You and I were with his kind with Al and I were talking to the actor which on the other day, and he's like, you know, no, gentleman, we ever throw a golf club on the course. That was funny. You gotta be kidding me. I don't know anybody, man, woman or child who's not throwing a golf golf Club. Yeah.

Every now then you got to release attention. Um. I mean, my my favorite story about this is back I think it's oh three when VJ was on his run and and you surved Tiger for a while and they were going at it and there was no love lost between them, and you know the story, Michael. They're on the first t final round. I think it was in Boston where VG beat him. But um, Tiger says, you know, good luck, and VD says, titlist one. There weren't a lot of

words spoken the rest of that day. But um, you know, it's that's a little different. I mean, those are guys with history and they are they are battling for number one in the world, and like if they want to be in their own world, I think it almost makes sense. That's like Hagler hearns, you know. But um, I love the Barracuda. I love the Barracuda, as you all know. I love it. But when you're tight, okay on Saturday at the Barracuda, maybe loosen up a little bit, you know,

not out here changing lives. I had a quick question. I had a quick question for Ryan about this Baracuta tournament. There's one tournament that gets called routinely by its corporate name, that's Honda. Guys will actually say you're playing Honda. They don't say are you playing West Palm Beach or Palm Beach Gardens? They are you playing Honda? What is this baracouta tournament? Is that Vegas or Reno? What is it used to? How open is Baracuda? What? And what is Barracuda?

What do they do their insurance? All right, people on the end, Michael call it the Kuda. Don't say Kuda. I've heard you use that. Please as a non starter. Well, let me pay you some rhyme about nicknames. Nicknames have to be clever, like uh when when when Tiger Woods called streets Seves, Strigger Stricks. That's not clever. But who is that famous good dresser? There was a famous Masters winner who's a great dresser, one of the Texas guys,

and they called him Wardrobe. That's a great nickname. Cooda is not a nickname, that's nothing. Burnt biscuits is a great nickname. That's a great Those are the all the gust of caddies, right like he swipes some some baked goods out of a window and after that they called him burnt biscuits. Um. Yeah, So in generally, in all my typing, but especially in my books when I have I never used the corporate names. I mean, it's a San Diego Open, it's l A Open, it's the Hawaiian Open.

Then you can't imagine how people are offended by that, Like it's called the Sony. But I'm I'm like future proofing the book because, as we know, corporations come and go it. Yeah, it might it might not be the Sony in a year. Like why are people so attached these corpet names? The Honda is no longer the Honda after this year, is it not? Well, yeah, it's not as what is the Honda enough? I mean it's the Honda this year, but this is the last year. Okay.

By the way, that that that golfer was Jimmy demerit was it was Wardrobe anyway. Um, all right, we touched on John rom very briefly, but let the other big thing that happened in golf in recent days was John John roman Eper once going he was wearing pajamas. I mean, this guy, most of these guys you can tell right away. John Ram you cannot. You always ready to fall asleep off the course. And I like the fact I never ever and Al and I have talked about ever so

Tiger off the course. John rom you see everywhere and he always looks like he's wearing pajamas. Have fallen asleep? Yeah, the anti wardrobe. Yeah, yes, together it was wearing a T shirtther they said dad bod, which I thought was

funny because it's very accurate. Um. Yeah. So the other big news in recent days in in the larger golf landscape is that Live Golf finally landed it's TV deal with the c W, which a network I remember, like I'm just young enough that like when Dawson's Creek and those those trashy teen shows were a thing I was sort of adjacent to asn't and so I've always known the CW, but I honestly didn't even know it was still in business. And I haven't thought about this c

W in decades. But it has been funny to me the YouTube nostalgia, like on golf Twitter like, oh, this is a terrible move. You know, YouTube is the biggest platform in the world. When when they were only when Live was only on YouTube, people like, oh, it's a joke. They're only on YouTube. They can't even get on TV. Now they're on TV, and everyone's like, oh, this is the wrong network, like they sort of can't win. I agree that, you know, it's not it's not ESPN, it's

not Fox whatever. But it was a necessary first step. Uh, but what do you guys think of this news? It was weird to me, was that you that YouTube broadcast. I watched a little bit and it was good. Uh they did, I mean for their first year of being in the in the business of putting golf tournaments on they're they're broadcast was good. I mentioned, they'll do a good job with it. Uh, you know, you can buy talent in the TV business. You're putting on a show.

I menagined they'll do very well with it. People people want to watch it. They're gonna find their way to it. It was good, but it wasn't. It was unsustainable. Part I was so good was no commercials, you know, and they they you know, in the world we live in, you need TV revenue to the survive as a as a global sports you know, franchise. So I think, yeah, it wasn't. How can I take exceptional because, uh, the Mastress has proved that's not true. The Mastress has more

money than God. The only group that has more money than the masters of course the Saudis. So I don't know if that's necessarily the case. I mean, like what I made fun My joke was, uh, who's going to tell the animals? Because on Sunday there's World's Funniest Animals is on c W. So I was like, who, who's

going to tell the animals that cancel? But um, like, I think if you look at it objectively and I'm trying my best, is a sports organization started one year ago or a little over a year ago has dropped. They didn't announce till March. Okay, yeah, less than a year ago. They've taken some of the best players in the world, including maybe Ram's ahead now probably the second best player in the entire world. Right Uh, and now they're on TV and they are competing against what was

a monopoly forever. Uh. And so yes, it's the c W. Yes, I'm gonna make fun of it. Yes, so is everybody else. But if you are objective and you don't think that they're making strides and affecting golf. You're just flat out wrong. It's just all there is to it. It's the same stuff. Like, yes, it's a joke that it's on the CW all of it. Everything is. But if like March eleven months ago, they

were No. One and they have maybe four or five of the top twenty or thirty players in the world, and they're on a TV network and they have a relatively full schedule, and I just they it's kind of wild. Yeah, And to to Michael's point, I mean, the key for

Live is to make the telecasts unique and different. You don't want to just look like Phil in the Booth, but fill both Phil in the Booth, Phil and David Ferty that they would choose some So, okay, now you're on TV great now show us what that could look like in a different fashion, because to try and look like the PG Tour but not quite as good makes no sense for them. So like they've got to they've got to really blow up the template of what a

tour telecast is. And if they do that, they will win some hearts and minds, because we all know that the number one pastime of of golf fans is complaining about the telecast so I'll be curious if they can reimagine if they have the if they have the brain power and the sensibilities, and also the runway because their first telecast is like a month away, like, so it's not they clearly they've had time to play on in

this offseason. But if you I don't know, I just I just hope they don't go down the conventional route, because what's the point of that. As as J Monahan said, it's not product against products, and the tour product is established and it's it's it's the it's what we all are accustomed to, and it's traditional and it's pleasant in its own way. So if liv really wants to be the great disruptor, then show me something different so I

have a reason to watch. I think golf is heading you know, Marketing said us to me, Uh, marketing, The former o CEO of Taylor made no stills talk us for a living, not out of a truck, and he said this, he said, we're five years from now, we'll be heading towards a world where there's two really prominent national world tours so to speak, the PGA Tour and and the and and Live golf, and things are moving

in that direction. Uh, they just they just it may not be good for golf long long term, but things seem to be moving in that direction. I don't know how anyone really could argue otherwise. I am uh we I've brought this up I think three podcast in but the car R r L fight and uh and yesterday drove it home again as the PGA tour, UH tweeted out a picture of or a video of Xander making his albatross and then saying this was worth three thousand dollars.

And I cannot tell you how quickly that is going to turn people off, Like some tweeted at me today. You know, Uh, I guess Xander has made fifty four million dollars playing golf like that. Three hundred thousand is kind of irrelevant. First of all, the shot wasn't worth three hundred. All of the shots were worth three hundred.

But like this whole competition of showing how much money these guys make is that's what happened to the cart and I R L rich people trying to get richer and it ended IndyCar Uh And viewership is down on the PGA tour. Not a ton of people are watching live, Like people are getting turned off by this ship and for them to dive in, uh, you know, trying to show like you know, who has a bigger bicep? Yes, you're welcome guys for pg NG that and you thought I was going somewhere else. Uh, like who has a

bigger bicep? Is is just going to turn golf fans off eventually, just all there is to it. And that's where I'm afraid golf is going, right, I mean, I would you when someone makes an albatross, the stat is like, how many albatrosses are there in the history of the PGA Tour. It's the rarest thing there is, are way more rare than a hole on one. Don't tell me about who cares about three? Kay? Like, you're absolutely right, Ryan,

it's but that's that's the livification of the discourse. But I I really don't understand it from the PGA Tour's perspective because the money is like if that was on live, it would be seven hundred thousand dollars shot because like they can't They've openly admitted they can't admit like compete on a dollar to dollar basis. So I just anyway, it's Uh, it's frustrating. Yeah, I mean that. So that was that was the big deal, was getting the tv

UM situation settled and announced. The next big announcement is the forty eight man we can call forty man because that's what it's gonna be roster for live golf for two thousand twenty three. You know, last year during the beta test year, of course, they're bringing players on UM in in sort of the staggered erratic fashion. They kept having to move people from team to team, like their planned all along for two thousand twenty three is to

have everything baked out. These are our forty eight guys, These are the twelve teams, and um they keep delaying this announcement and it's gonna be weeks ago. Either it's because they're finalizing a bunch of deals and they're gonna rock our worlds with a bunch of big announcements, or they're desperately trying to get anyone to say yes it is. It's probably one of the two, and there hasn't been a lot of buzz. I mean, the the the usual suspects who have been rumored in the past, like they've

seen more and more entrenched with the PGA Tour. They're certainly making a hell of a lot money on the PGA, a lot more money on the PGA Tour than they had been previously. So, like Live knows, it's gonna look like a a public relations defeat if they can only announce you know, Medo Pereira or or some other semi fringe players. So I'm sure the offers are going up. I'm sure the agents are licking their chops. The there's

probably some players and their wives are anguishing. But that's the next big announcement, and and I think that will have obviously we'll define this season for Live. It'll it'll it'll in people's minds, maybe settle the the US against them, like the two the sides will have been drawn once they announced this, Like it'll be pretty clear what professional

golf is gonna look like for a long time. I don't see a ton of movement throughout this season, so um that that's a very freighted announcement that's gonna come down any day now. And how many names are you looking for? Own? Well? The you know, I was talking to some Live folks like two to three weeks ago, and they they were hoping to have a handful. What that's can be defined? How big are your hands? But um, you know if if it's only one, yeah, Ryan impressive,

So um we'll see. I mean that they the problem. The problem for Live is they've built their whole business model on on buzz and on on hype, and so if you've got to keep feeding that because I think product, you know again, product against product, Uh, they fall short in a lot of people's eyes. So um, it's a mad scramble right now to sign some players, and I'll

be very curious how it plays out. So I don't really agree with that because I think, you know, if they if they signed Colin Mark how which would be extremely unlikely. Uh, then he goes over and plays there and we forget about him. If you're if you forget about if you play the PGA Tour, and if you if you follow the PGA Tour closely, just like you know how often you think about Brooks cup Can Bryson Deshambo.

Now if you're aren't following Live, So I I think as long as they're forty A and the PGA Tour is still committed to six, then when on product versus product, it's just two really very differ from products. And uh, they signed some guys their names. Now, that doesn't mean they're gonna be names in five years. You know, Phil Mickelson's not gonna be a name in five years. It's just gonna be another golfer in his mid leave fifties who had a great, great, great career that you hardly

think about. David Duval had a great, great, great career that you hardly ever think about. So they're just sort of names. I don't think it's so important. Interesting, Well, the marketplace will decide um before we go, let's just touch on the Davis Love Drew Love situation. It's quite interesting. Ryan explained to people why the whole world is suddenly obsessed again with Drew Love. Yeah, Um, Drew was in the I was perusing the final stage of Asian Toque School,

which is total normal nerd golf nerd stuff. Uh, but Drew Love was there and I really didn't think about it. Um just assumed he got through first stage at some place, and uh he hadn't. I mean he got an exemption into final stage. And the pettiness on both sides. Greg J the PJ Tour, everyone right, it's kind of like taking camp Smith's parking spot at TPC Sawgrass, you know, press releases on the same day, all that kind of pettiness.

You would think that Greg gave him exemption into Asian Tour status so he would play himself into onto the Asian Tour, which he did. Finished thirty cards available fourth round sixty two. By the way, the dude has some talent,

There's no argument about that. And then, uh, you would think maybe he plays well in a few Asian Tour events, or even before he plays on the Asian Tour, that Greg is petty enough to give him an invite to live because Davis has been so I was spoken, and that is when I would love to be at the dinner table of the Loves. When we had Davis on the podcast months ago, I mean I titled it the Voice of the Establishman. I mean that as you're saying, Ryan, it's really Davis has found his voice late in life

as this crusator for the tour. And so, yeah, it is interesting because perusing Asian Tour qualifying results used to be high nerd, but now, as we've discussed many times in the past, the Asian Tour has become much more relevant. It's the future system in to live. It's it's going to become a center of gravity for young inspiring players because the money is going up. So the Asian Tours a much bigger deal and ever has been. But um, I mean, do you know how unusual it is to

be granted an exemption into I assume that rarely happens. So, uh, the Asian Tour has been somewhat famous for you could buy your way into the fame, but that was before they had any money, like they you know, needed money to keep tournaments going and those kind of things. Um uh, I just got as we were on and I have to confirm it, but one of uh Phil's buddies evidently missed by one at the Arizona so but was magically

in final stage and got his card. Uh. So you know, it's it's still like it's still kind of a buddy system, but it's pretty unusual. No one broadcasted. I reached out to the Asian Tour through somebody and they didn't have any comment or they just sent me a list of the reasons that someone could get an exemption. There's a bunch and the main one is one of the ones that would fall under all of these categories. Is the

tournament committee has the right to grant any sort of exemption. So, um, it didn't actually say that this person's father is a Ryder Cup captain that which, right, who who talks about live all the time and we would like to get him on. Yeah, it's super weird, but it does start to bring into sharp relief something Andy Ogletree told Allen to me a while back, and it was it was so telling. Young Bryan's professional life is devoted to this statement.

Young golfers looking for places to play, and Uh, Davis isn't gonna begrudge his son for that is my reading of it. Even with all the weirdness. Davids stands for one thing, Davis is the voice of establishment, but on another on another level, you know, Drew's a you know, a good young golfer looking for a place to play. I think that's an easy conversation Michael on the Asian Tour. I think it's a little more difficult on the Lift Tour,

especially if he gets an exemption. Uh. And to the people that like Listen, Drew gets a lot of hate for all of the exemptions he's gotten and those kind of things. Don't bregrudge him for that. Listen, Mark Baldwin got two exemptions because of social media presence, so like whatever the reasons are, no problem. No one's gonna turn it down. All of us would take it. So no problem with Drew getting uh an exemption into final stage again, it's just kind of be upfront about it, right, like,

uh it is. It's going to be wild because I mean, I just don't know. I don't know why Greg wouldn't. I mean it like, I mean, of course, like, no one's gonna go where's Henny quid? Question for you? Is that purported or is that the fact that he the

exemption to the final stage. Yeah, it's it's a fact. Well, And to to your point, I'm not even sure there's gonna be much conversation about Live because when you think of the ultra uptight conservative, longtime member of the establishment, it's Wally you Line and his son's making a killing on Live. So uh and he was you know he wasn't you know, Peter your Line had a great amstra career, but he could never stick on the PGA tour. He doesn't.

He tried for years, So I think, um, I think when you know the dads are pragmatic and they know how hard how hard it is to make it, and um if they have a route to professional golf and but anyway, yeah, so it is, Michael, can you ask Davis if I could come over for dinner for that conversation. I went to more than once I've had dinner with with Drew and Davis and uh eight years ago. I mean Drew was a little kid, and uh there everyone was rarding dinner and uh, I said, you know, what

are the fish specials today? And everybody else was ruding steak and uh, and Drew said, you know he he doesn't order steak, and David says, you, yeah, that's because Michael dosney neat doesn't eat red meat. And then Drew says, well, then what does he eat? I have a Drew I have a Drew love story. Uh. Colorado Colorado opened. Uh, Drew is near the lead. I'm out there covering it. And Drew's caddy has uh flip flops on. I take a picture of his flip flops, not him, just of

his flip flops. Put it up on Twitter. Sometimes I forget like that. I have a passionate you know, following, and they just hammered the poor dude, like I mean, just lighting him up like a Christmas tree. And Drew getting rapnel too. You know, there's taking a guy who doesn't care. And so I'm sitting in the in the cart and Drew comes off the green of like twelve and he starts walking towards me and he goes, hey, man,

can you take that tweet down? My kid? He's just getting hammered And all we're doing is getting a million messages on our phone about it. And I was like, yeah, I take it down. He's also had the most earnest caddy ever, his Davis Caddy for Drew, and Drew qualified for the UH for the US Open. UH no special anything there of course and UH. And it was so clear, you know, Drew wanted and Davis wanted it more, and

Davis was catting his bottom off. But he couldn't talk his our memory, he couldn't talk of, he couldn't talk. Drew at a driver in one particular only drove into the rough, made a bog and I think he missed by a shot. I love that well to You're the flip flop thing. When I was in during a practice round at the Rio Olympics. I was out there on the course and it was empty, and this ball came rolling up from sort of adjacent fairway and it was

a titlist. It was number sixty nine and it was it was Scott hend and I took a photo of it and I put it and I was like, oh, you know, what a dirty bird or something, and everyone everyone was so upset. Ian Baker Finch, the most mild manner guy in golf. I got my business like and uh, I was like, first of all, if you put sixty nine on your golf ball, you're asking for people to notice. And he could have a put to win the gold medal and they'll zoom it on the ball and it'll

be a sixty nine. Like I didn't make him do it. And it was like, it's just funny, Like people do things and I guess they think no one's gonna notice. But it's not the world we lived in. So Scott, this was you know, now seven years ago. If you're still sore about that, UM, I have no regrets. Um anyway, UM, this has been, as as always, a very eclectic fire drill. But UM, the key takeaway for you the Listeners is

on on Tuesday, Earth, presumably tomorrow. When you listen to this um, go to the YouTube of the fire Pick Collective or go to fire Pi Collective dot com watch the first episode of the grind docuseries. Hopefully you'll enjoy it. If you feel moved to, you know, talk about on social media, we wouldn't mind. But we're very proud of this. We're very excited about it, and we hope you guys will tune in. But even if you don't, we'll keep

bringing you these fire drills every week. So for Michael Bamberger and Ryan Frances Alan Schufnik, thank you for listening, and we'll be back at it again soon. That's the end. A bed big play to win, made a fortune within my ship game. I run the table and thought I could fall. Then the win hit me like a cannon the ball and now can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get him out, trying

not to think what I'm thinking about. I gott thoughts in my head. I can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about