Fire Drill 061: A Day to Reflect

subscribe FIREPI Collective YouTube channel go there. Talked about Michelle We I think very much unappreciated how great her young career was. If Twitter was around then as prominent as is now, it would have been insane. Fourteen years old, Mr cut at the at a at a PGA Tour event by one, but Alan had a great story about her getting to the quarterfinal of the publics him flying in on a red eye, so stay tuned for that.

We talked about some heavy stuff UM. We talked about Ted Fujikawa, talked about the Sony um all of it a great discussion. What makes the fire Drill the fire drill real quickly about some of the other things that are happening at fire Pick Collective. Michael Bamberger, who's on this podcast, wrote a story about his golfing hero, Michael Murfey, who was on uh ned a fourth another great podcast that the fire Pick Collective is doing. Check it out

also on our YouTube channel. Um but he wrote a story about Mike Murphy and why he's his golfing hero, and uh then we all added our golfing heroes. Everybody at fire Pit did a little uh, a little paragraph, not a full story on our golfing hero. So it's a cool little thing that we're doing in addition to some big stories. Also, Imaginella broke the story about Kemper sports buying Seemstrong for a hundred and sixty millions. So

fire Pick Collective dot com. Before we get into it final thing are wonderful sponsors that help us Part Points go make par scoring app downloaded, Android, iPhone, anywhere, Go get it. Uh a new way to score. I know that's a hard concept for golfers to wrap their head around, but it's a great way to do it. Go make part go download part Points and then Dormy Workshop artisanal.

I love it to say it. Every week, uh Head covers Potter Covers awesome, awesome stuff they produce, UM Dormy Workshop, huge supporters of ours, thanks to them, Thanks to everybody. A lot of things in that intro. So to recap, go to fire Pick Collective YouTube like subscribe. I said that twice. My producer, Jake, our producer, Jake would be is going to be super happy about this one. He's

always on me about that. Uh So, go do that so that I can stop saying it and Jake can stop saying it to me without further ado, here's the three of us talking golf. My head can't get John and nothing. What I'm thinking about can't get him down, not think well I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan Schipnuk back for another Fire Drill podcast as always with Michael Bamberger and Ryan Frentz. Gentlemen, we completed the Hawaii Swing and I know Ryan, you were devastated that Hayden

Buckley did not win. Tell us why that was so disappointing to you and your people. Yeah, Hayden is one of my favorite people in golf. A couple of reasons. One is just a down to earth. Great dude, Like he's the guy that in his first year on tour made seven thousand dollars and still drives a ten year old truck. Uh. His dad's a great dude. Him and him and my him and his dad and I our

friends like email buddies. Bob is a great guy. Uh. A great little sidebar when he won his corn ferry event and he was an alternate standing on the range on Thursday, got in at the last moment. Then one on Sunday I sent that. Sunday I sent Bob an email and said, where are you watching it? How are you getting your updates? Are you down there? And he said, I can't watch it too nervous. I'm hunting. I'm hunting beavers at my camp, which is great. And they're they're

so sweet and industrious. Who when they are invasive, they are invasive and and uh he he followed the last hole at a shell gas station out in the middle of the thing. But just great people. The main thing is Hayden has he gets tour players get a lot of free stuff sent their way. Hayden doesn't have a clothing sponsor, so a lot of clothing companies send him free clothes all the time, and he sends it directly to me for our my foundation that I sent to

high school teams in need um. In fact, one kid, uh, I just sent a bunch of two and last night him and I were texting and he was watching the uh you know, events unfold, and I mean, it's very cool. This kid has gone from not having much to wearing clothes of an almost PGA Tour winner. And uh so Peyton is one of my favorite people in the world. Uh and so rooting hard for him, Well that's nice. I like all that, um. Uh. And yet our champion was Cebu Kim, who might be one of the most

underrated players in golf. I mean, his name is never mentioned as as a you know, really a world class threat because he hasn't made much noise in them in the major championships, although he could win the fifth major the players but age seven, I mean, one of my favorite swings in golf. He's he's a little volatile out there at times. I mean, he's got a temper and all that, but I like to watch him play, and it was it was an impressive wins his fourth career

PG Tour wind. I was actually looking up. He's over three lifetime in in playoffs on the tour. I mean he could all have almost double the wins if he had a better luck in the playoffs. So he's he's putting together a pretty nice resume. What do you guys have any thoughts about see woo. One loved the shirt and got a lot of hell on it, but I liked it. Uh, It's like he just disappeared. He disappears for times and then like appears with great play. Um it is a very underrated. Like I kind of knew

he had four wins. I knew he had one here and there, but like definitely an underrated four wins. Like people just don't talk about him. Uh and uh he seems to have gotten way more animated, like he was pumping up crowds last night and those kind of things. A side note, his uh Kenny is Manny Hill j gez come me Camille's brother who in one of our candy trips. Uh, my dad and I took Manny was in a group with my dad Michael will know. This is the Mitch Tasker group, the the Australian and my

dad came off. It was like I have never heard anyone swear as much as Manny. Bill Jake is good swear. It's like a world class. And even when my dad, as my dad kind of went down the dementia trails, some things he would remember and how much Manny swore, and it made me think about it as they kind of hot Mike uh see woo and Manny t yesterday and I was like, oh boy, this could get this could get sideways luckily swing right. Is that something that

you've ever talked to about? I mean, it's so unconventional to see a guy go out of the way he does. It's obviously to me, it seems obviously it's he's a self tug guy and does things his own way. I'm sure that's part of the appeal for you. Do you know anything about his move and where it comes from. I don't. I don't know much, but I mean unconventional for sure. How about the the guy teeing it up as high as a driver on the eighteenth hole, uh

with a three wood? I mean that is full blown stones and full blown confidence that you are not going to pop that up a hundred and seventy yards down the fairway. Yeah. Yeah, that was a little disconcerting, I agree, and it was. It was interesting, you know, leaderboard, we had a Matt Coucher sighting, we had Aaron Baddeley frequent Monday qualifier. Like I've always liked the Hawaiian Open because

it's sort of democratic tournament. A lot of guys don't make the trips, so for for many rookies or or players who are a little down on the on their luck, like, it's a it's a start. It's it's a very old school golf course. It looks, it looks nice on TV, but it's it's um. It's kind of shortish and it's more about finesse and positioning and um it's and you know now that they had a pretty good spill over

for um from Capitalua. I think half the Capitalua field bound up making the trip over there, partly because you know, like George Speed and guys like that have to play three non elevated events as part of this new deal and so um, you know, the field is a little bit stronger at the top, but there was still some charming stories they cleft upon the leaderboards. I'm a big fan. It's I think it's always a fun tournament. I am too, and I'm always, I always every year I think this,

how SETH. Raynard got to Hawaii to design that golf course is stunning to me. And then the fact that the course is held up so well over the years shows you that that that it can be done, and you know it probably should be a part of sixty eight and then you know even would be a great scorer. But we still cling to this notional part five. But if you forget that, it's it's no one ever runs

away with with a win there. And also it shows you elevated, non elevated if you like golf, really doesn't matter. It was a terrific tournament to watch and different personalities, totally different styles and it was you know, part of you know, a short part five finish. And if you don't drive and play like like Buckley didn't and me, things get really hairy very quickly. Yeah, there's a penalty

out there. I mean some of those fairway punkers have like a steep face and that that rough is you know, very wiry and unpredictable, and there's you can attack that golf course, but you know there's there's a penalty for missing, which I enjoy and um you know, it's just funny think about um Ioki winning there, like Michelle Wee and

Tada Fuji Kwa making runs there. I mean there's been there's been some interesting history at that turnament more than most and um, you know it seems like what Michelle we nearly made a cut there, right, Yeah, a couple of times, and I was, I was, I was there twice and she, um, you know that was like peaque Michelle we media when she was in early to mid teens and before the injuries, and like it was the

electricity there was was unbelievable. And I was there the year that Fujikawa made his run and you know he was such a charming kid about five. He's like Muggsy Bogues heights and just um all of it. So it's a special place in my heart for that tournament. Where do you guys rank Michelle we missing the cut by one on like accomplishments in women's I mean, it's it's an unreal like it will never have enough credit for

how as a teenager. I mean again, the course is relatively short, but not for like a player that doesn't hit it as far. I mean that accomplishment had she made the cut would have been one of the greatest accomplishments in women's golf, Right, Am I overstating it? No, I don't think. I don't think you are in Her swing was perfection. Uh uh, it never was better than how would she have been when she wouldn't she missed by a shot at before? I think fourteen? Yeah, that's

on his perfection, I know. I mean I have I have teenage daughters imagining one of the when they were fourteen too. Not the physicality, but just the the emotion and the intensity, the the uh, just to have the whole island and like the way she the way she handled it it was it was impressive. Yeah, that's a good point. Right, we've kind of we've sort of forgotten

about how how crazy all that was. And and there was appeared there where she was like as big a star as Tiger I felt like, and um, it never never fourteen years old anyone Tiger Woods being within one cut at a men's event, a young woman, a girl at fourteen years old missing a cup. I wanted. A PGA Tour event, a very legitimate PGA Tour event, is man insane, insane. That's when Tom Laman called her the Big Wheezy because or something looks so much like Ernie's.

I know it was. It was so beautiful, just languid and long. It I mean, she was like so hyper flexible. It was. Yeah, it's too bad. I get a little wistful thinking about those days because it was just I mean, I remember when she bade that run at the was it the pub Links to try and get into the the the US and she trying to get out of the Masters and if she'd want it. And it's actually a funny story because our boss Jim Harry, who Michael I have great affection for, he called me. He's like,

you got to get out there. I think it was in Ohio, outside Cincinnati if I'm remembering, and I'm in California, and so this was when she had I guess made it through the round of sixteen and was in the quarter finals. So I took a red eye. I went right to this course and it was just it was a very small venue. I mean it was a traditional old club that probably had room for about cars in the parking lot, and they had there was no additional parking organized because it's it's the Pub Links. I mean,

it doesn't get a crowd. And so I'm in the rental car all bleary eyed, and I'm still miles from the course, and there's cars parked along the side of the road sporadically, and then it gets more hatphazard. I mean people are driving up into ditches and they're up on these hillsides and they're like parked double wide next

this road. And it was like it was it felt like a disaster movie, you know when when Godzilla comes everyone flees the city on foot and they just abandoned their cars on the causeway like it had that five And I got to the front and I wound up. It's actually with great shame. The only place left was a handicap spot. And I said to the guy and she was on the course like she her matches had started hours ago. I said, buddy, I'm so desperate, I'm gonna leave you the keys. If an actual handicap person

comes move my car, I don't care. I gotta get out. I can't drive back four miles the next parket place. And I gave him. I gave a twenty. He's like fine, And you know, it's just like sixteen year old kid who was in charge of parking and totally overwhelmed. And I ran out there and they were like on the last hole I saw, I saw we hit her appro coach and then get closed out. I flew all the way there and I saw her playing golf like twelve minutes.

But just the the energy around it and the scene setting, and I still got to do a bunch of interviews and it was worthwhile and it was a good you know, it was a pretty good story. But I'll never forget that. Just the cars, and I've never seen I've never seen anything like that. It's probably going to Woodstock in nine or something. I mean, it was, it was quite memorable. I'd have to look it up. My memory serves it's. Um it was in Cincinnati. Um we do have the

Google machine here, but um, somewhere in the Midwest. And UM. Anyway, that was. That was a funny memory. But people don't remember that. The Publinks, which doesn't exist anymore, it got you into got you into the Masters. One of the greatest boondoggles ever was when the pub Links was in Kauai and I got sound there to cover it, and the U s J actually gave the competitors stipends because of the travel expense, so it was like a working

vacation him. There was I remember interviewing the school teacher. He just missed the cut. He's like, thank god, He's like, I kind of lost track of us, dude out there. I'm so happy I missed the cut because now I can go to the beach and I can I can hike, and I can do this and that. Like it would have been so dreary to have had to keep playing golf. The whole the whole vibe was hilarious. Go ahead, and Michael, where you say, uh, we do just a couple of cents.

So I talked to Jim Harry here our former bus uh just yesterday and here we were speaking at Grant Wall the other day. Uh, you know, the late Grant Walls, a terrific gunffic to a wonderful right and a wonderful person. And Jim reminded me that he covered the LPGA event

that was played several days after nine eleven. And so Jim's telling me the story about how he Wall lived in Seattle and the event was in Seattle, and Jim's telling the story in in great detail, like wow, I cannot remember an LPGA event being played that and and and Jim's point was that it was the only sporting event that was going on and that you know well signed on to cover. Do you remember any of this song?

I do vaguely, yeah, that there was this odd discussion as to whether we should even have UH an OPG event. Now the OPJ is so aware, I think socially, culturally what's happening in the world, Like they would have been the first group. They would have been, like what the NBA was at the start of the pandemic. That's just my sense that they were. The op is right now maybe the first coup figure out you cannot have a golf tourney this week. Great little sidebar. It was Shaker

run Alan Yse. Yeah. Now, second of all, I don't know or I didn't know this, or I don't remember. A good friend of mine who I've caddied for many times. It was now a college golf coach got absolutely wiped out by Michelle we that year six and five. C D Hacker Smith, Sorry, c D, this is how you've made the podcast. But apps sbolutely destroyed six and five in the morning, and then UH and then beat Jim Renner. I mean the I mean and the course was seven

thousand yards, I mean just that insane. Also Anthony Kim was making a run that year. What what a time and golf that was? That was yeah, yeah, we was. Michelle was fifteen and that all happen incredible. Um, it was a pretty easy path to get into the easy

definitely definitely quotes. But to think that, you know, she was a couple of couple of wins away from guys she could be to being a woman playing in the Masters, a girl really playing the Masters, that would have been all time yea, and yeah, I know that would have national ju. The credit was like, there's no issue here if she if you qualifies, she goal you win you in Yeah, absolutely, I mean the US Amateur, the publics, they're not they're not. Men's tournaments are open to anyone

who wants to play in them. Who's a good golf for And it just so happens that it's always been due to fill out the fields. But there's to this day their their gender neutral. Like if a really talented young woman or or you know, even a an older woman could play in the U s Autre if they want to. I mean there's you know, there's a physiology in play, but if you get the ball in the hole fast enough, you can compete. Just a quick quick

note on your phrase gender neutral. Uh, this shows you how ahead of the game Sandy Tatum wasn't how behind the game the USG was in that in that period, I was helping Sandy. For those who don't know Sandy Tatum, and many would not, Sandy Tatum was a former us J president and a line of the San Francisco bar Uh dead now probably about five or more years and

late in his life. I helped him at a first person piece about uh what he imagined the US Open would look like in the in the future, and he talked about it was for us J publication, and he talked about the number of transgender players that you would see, you know in a quote Men's US Open in the future. And it was just, you know, here's a man who was in his nineties writing about that in the most casual ways. UM and the us JA edited out that part of Sandy Candy would't they wouldn't allow it. Now

I think they'd probably welcome it. Uh. It was just his view anyhow, But but it was gone. But things things have changed would you agree on about that, that that that notion of the U s J or rather the l p g A was so behind the times then now is at the leading ede of things. Yeah.

It was strangely conservative and almost chaste. You know. There was this whole, this fear of any acknowledgement that some of their players were gay, which now, of course nobody cares about and it's uh in sports for for both men and women, it's just accepted. But that that always hung over the tour and they had sort of this this siege mentality they want to dress anything, and um, yeah, and now it's it's definitely much more progressive and a lot of the players have found their voices and um,

so yeah, I agree with your take. There one last thing before we move on from the Hawaiian Open. I just I hadn't thought about Matt Kutcher in a long time, and there he was. You know, he's he's still got that boyish look even though he's now in his mid forties. And it's including Tiger. Has any player changed their reputation and their general perception of the public, um more than Matt Coucher due to something that has nothing to do

with the golf like it's just it's incredible. You can't look at him and not think about two L two can and that whole ridiculousness was stiff in the caddy and I was just like, man, everyone prior to that,

every thought Matt Coucher was a great guy. And he still probably isn't a lot of ways, but you know, fun loving and at sharp needle and kind of an overachiever, had a very nice career and m and yet it's like you look at him like, oh god, one percent tip, like, come on, Matt, and this is I don't know, is it just me or does that pop in your head?

Do you see Mack Coucher now? And then right prior to that, to that, when stiffing the caddy in mac Rejuice defense key things that keep paid him exactly what you agreed to pay him. And that might be technically true, but it doesn'tpply you wont come on um. But prior to that period, it was in the period when Tiger wasn't appearing in ads at all, there was no one more prominent in TV ads. It seems unlikely, but it's

true than Matt Couchart. He was in every idea ever saw, except for maybe you know, Ricky Pallor, but all those sketchers had one after another back stone and yeah, like he was everywhere. I mean, he was an American, like you know, the American boy, right, like the American dream, smiled all the time, went to Georgia, tag always nice,

and then stiff to Caddy and boom. That's it. It's because it's those there's so much bullshittery in sports and in golf, and it's those raw, unscripted moments that really reveals who people are. I mean, it's like Kevin Kissner is tweet, you know, mocking people who died of COVID, Like that was that was a real look into this

person's heart. And you can put out the press releases and you can have you know, you can you can apologize, but like that's the moment where people kind of reveal themselves. It was not only that he stiffed him, but then then he didn't really do anything right. It was like once he got busted, it should have been like, yeah, I sent him fifty grand and you know that that's it, But it was like defending himself and all that kind of stuff, just digging the whole deeper. It was just like, yikes,

nothing got better. I don't want to move on, Uh from the sony until we talked about Ted. You you brought it up. But Ted is now a pro game. Yeah, he's he's a pro, like a head pro, but in pickleball. Michael, for those that don't know, his mother was at every event, g Pro, the Mini Tour that he played on a lot, anywhere, and she was there with the famous dog and uh they had a cart and the dog would get pushed around in a cart and she never missed a single shot.

So I assume she's a side of the pickle ball event. Uh, with the dog and the cart. Ted is a great dude, tom, he seems to The article I read from PGA tour dot Com about him seemed to be that he's kind of found his place in life. And uh, I love to pickle ball and that's great because Ted was, I know, struggling at times. Uh, and so it's good to see. But how about today being Martin Luther King day. Uh

we this discussions going on literally for fifty years. Uh, but they were black offers on the PGA Tour when I first started, uh watching golf in the seventies were not uncommon now they're you know, is wars A a blue moon? Uh? Who would have thought all these years, after the burdens of Tiger and different efforts to try to make the game on inclusive, that the pro would still be So what? Um, do you guys have thoughts about whether that matters or not? And if it does matter,

why does it matter if anything's going to ever change? Yeah, it does matter. I mean we say it all the time. We want golf to look more like America, and um, you know the PGA Tour is certainly not representative of that. You know. The Tiger boom he was he was such a Hayley's comment, you know, like you could he was so unique and unexpected in so many ways. I'll be curious, actually, if, if, if, if there's an influencer boom, like I could see a ten or twelve or fourteen year old kid out there,

he's watching Roger Steele on Instagram. Who's having a great time? Who's who's playing these cool courses? You know, the guys for east Side Golf, who've got you know, tons of swag and they've got these super cool Jordan's now with their logo and they've they've brought like this very um this is very cool sort of hip hop um vibe to their golf clothes. And you know, you have you have Troy Mullins, like who's Who's become kind of this

personality along the Long Drive? Uh a woman Who's who's now commentating on Live Like it may be that you know, Tiger was kind of a nerd, right, Like there was nothing really cool about Tiger. Now he was incredibly fun to watch and he forgot for golf nerds like us, and we we loved it. But you know, I mean Tiger had Hootie and the Blowfish played his wedding. That says at all he could have he could have any band in the world, he went with Hooty and the

blow Wish. It doesn't get more white bread than that. Like, Tiger just was never cool. But you know, Roger Steel is cool. And like Joe Hooks, who's features on our upcoming docuseries that Gry we can touch on later. Joe Hooks is super cool. I mean, he's incredibly stylist guy and he's he's got a great vibe about him. And so I don't know that it may Harold Verner is cool.

You know, he's he's actually wearing the Jordan's and and he's fun loving and so in the final analysis for his transcendent greatness, Tiger might have been the wrong role model, um because he was so conservative and he was so

uptight and um. As the as the game has become a lot more democratic through social media, through top golf and things like that, I mean, it may stimulate interest in in in these kids who otherwise you know, watching an analog, traditional boring telecast with your grandpa on Sunday is not going to make you want to play golf.

But when when you see uh a lot of these folks on social media having a great time and living the high life, and they make it look fun and glamorous, like I think that could actually draw kids from all different backgrounds to the game. So I don't know, the Tiger boom was was was a bust. We'll see if there's other ways to attract, you know, people to the game who traditionally haven't played it. That that's that's happening right now. Do you really think the game is more

democratic now? Because I would say in many ways, the you know, the error when touring gros came out of the caddy art. It was more democratic. Now it takes more money than ever for a junior golfer to try to make it, to become good enough to place a Division one golf let alone and meet the tours that Ryan covers, let alone the j Tour. Yeah, that's true. I meant more from the standpoint that, uh, you're exposed

to golf constantly on social media. Um like, so none of my none of my daughters play golf, but you know our phones are always watching and listing in because their their proximity to me. They get fed golf content on on Snapchat and on Instagram. And you know what, whenever there's like a babe in a many skirt and high heels at top golf, they think it's cool, like hey, do you know this girl? And um like that's their energy or oh my god, did you see that crazy

shot that uh that George Speith pulled off? I was like, how do you know about that? It's like I saw a snapchat Like So the I meant democratic f the standpoint that that if you're a teenager or a young person, the game is coming to you in a fun, disposable way, and you're getting a glimpse of it that where it looks cool. You've got you know, Brooks is on a yacht like my my daughter that was like did you see that y'ach? The Brooks kept us on in the

Italian Rivieria. I was like, yeah, I did. She's like, dang, like I didn't know golfers like party like that. I was like, oh, they do. You know. So I'm just saying like, there's, um, if you're trying to reach young people and try and change their their idea that golf is a stayed boring you are ugly clothes and you you you play these uptight places and it's it's a game for your your old man and like because of social media has had a profound impact I think on

on how kids think about the sport. So that that sound was referring to, You're right, there's still huge obstacles if you're going to take that energy and try and make it as a as a tour pro but um, you know, I don't know. It's it's an interesting moment for the sport. I think, Yeah, agreed, I mean, there's um, there's a tour now for people of color. I'm any tour and they're getting some opportunities, but I think it's such a like this is not going to happen overnight.

Um you know the kids that are playing now, all right, you know it's a twenty year, thirty year, and I don't think there's ever been a concentration on trying to make golf ah not as white as it is before, you know, the last few years. So luckily that is changing, but I think to Allen's point, I think it will take a lot of time to get more exclude, you know, more ethnicity in the game. I hope it's changing. I

hope it. I think Allen's point about Roger Steele and um and and Jenkins went to golf Tech, and I mean, he's just like a great way for people to see that golf can be fun and just enjoy it, doesn't matter,

and out of that will come some good players. But one thing that comes to mind immediately is Tony Feenou is such an outlier, uh and the fact that you know, a working class kid with no golf culture around him whatsoever and tremendous athletic ability got drawn to tiger Woods just like Jordan's feet and Justin Thomas and countless others did, but they weren't working class kids with no access to golf.

And he found his own access to golf, and he took that same skill set that you know, you could very much guess would would have made him a Division one basketball player in college, you know, only college basketball, and applied to golf and got himself good enough basically self taught to you know, to get into the last group of masters, and he's going to have a long,

long career. He's just such a tremendous outlier. And then another era, and I would say, actually more democratic era for for golf, there would have been more Tony finales. But now if you compare Tony finale with Justin Thomas and you know, in Jordan's speed than the others you know, had all the video and all the instruction and all the junior events, it's just it's so much harder to do. I mean a lot, a lot of golf is just

weird because it blends. To make it in golf, and I'm sure you would both agree with this need a tremendous amount of natural athleticism like you do to make it in basketball, coupled with a tremendous amount of tutoring. You know that that's not the path to the NBA or the NFL necessarily, but it is the path to golf. So I guess this is a weird tip of the head to Tony Finale, who's is one of the great

gentlemen of the game. Now anyhow, um, well, just a couple of things before, you know, more mundane golf nature. But to me, it actually brings this full circle little bit that the Netflix show is about the PGA Tour. The promotion began the last few days. And again, if you're trying, if you're competing with with great young athletes and they look at you know, do use your Tony few example, Like they look at the NBA and it's

it's the most exciting sports league there is. And NBA Twitter is always on fire and everything about it is glamorous. Um and if you know, if golf is gonna steal some of those athletes, part of it is the perceptive of the sport. So the fact that this this Netflix show is coming, it's going to create a lot of energy, and it's going to create eyeballs. And I'm not suggesting

it's going to reshape the sport. But it's just a little milestone for the game that the powers would be have deemed it interesting enough for It's a full blown Netflix show. So um, now, all that said, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to be excited. I watched the trailer and it left me a little cold because you know, you know, you're in a car with Justin Thomas. What we know Justin Thomas is boring. Oh you're on a jet with Colin Mary Collett, Well, he's even more boring.

And you go down the list of these players, it's like there's not a lot of dramatic tension in their lives. And uh, of course I'll watch the show and hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised. But what did you guys think of the trailer? I say the same thing all the time. First of all, Chad mom seems to be a great producer. He'd like in a great dude, and he produced the F one thing. Uh, and I and the lift stuff. It looks like they were inside on the lift stuff.

That will be unreal, assuming that they were there when all of this went down, and all of those kind of things. I say two things about F one show. One, they could die every time they get in the car. That creates drama at the characters that we know on the show in our real life, every time they go to do their job, they could die. And second of all, they can lose their job. That's part of the drama, right, is that teams are thinking about firing a guy and

whether he's going to be able to make it. That makes a show. None of the people that I saw in that trailer can a die outside on a golf course outside of some on real event, And two, they can't lose their job. Joel Damon is the only guy that I saw in the trailer that is on like he's one of one event, so he's like he'll get some starts for the better part of the next fifteen years. But is the only guy so that has some sort of you know, needs to still continue to win and

play well to keep his card. Everybody else can play events for the rest of their lives. They will never lose their job ever. Ever, So I don't know where the drama is now. I could be totally wrong. I'm open, I'm excited about it. I just don't know how they replaced the fact that everyone compares it to the F one show obviously because of the same producers and how it's grown F one, but F one drivers can die

and lose their job. There's a reason why Ryan on his Monday que Twitter feed as a hundred and fifteen thousand followers, because those guys are playing for their livelihood and those stakes are high, and these stakes are love and that's a problem for the for the PGA Tour, and that's going to be a problem for this for this show. If if it was more narrow in focus, like someone was desperate to make a rider Cup team before the career was over, you know, I don't know,

it might have more of a chance. I wish it, Uh, wish a lot of luck, but it's it's it's so hard to I mean, just even yesterday, just like like you know, they cut to a commercial hit Aidan Buckley at that t shot in the rough and then he slashed at that second shot, left that in the rough.

Of course you should have left to that, or could wish he could have, and then he wouldn't had an easy chip, he had a hard pitch and uh, and then they cut a way to a commercial break, and like I'm on pins, and you know it's like, wow, what kind of line does he have? There are two balls in the rough? Replace wherest can you learn? If

he doesn't pay first? Like, because we know golf, there's a lot of scenarios and think, well, what's it like for some kid who watches you know, just flicked onto it, you know from some NFL games are like who cares? You know? In other words, all that dramatic tension doesn't exist for most people. And that so now we have a Netflix series. Netflix is there? Netflix series? Uh, it's built on dramatic tension. That's where I struggle with golf podcast or golf broadcast. I don't want to be the

guy who complains about golf pod you know broadcast. But like they did such a poor job yesterday of telling like what this chip shot means to Hayden Buckley. Right like twenty months ago he was standing on a range in a one for event as the first alternate. Uh, and he was chipping a chip in a put and he has a chance to go to the Masters. Uh, Like explain where he's been that, you know he was a walk up, Like, explain what all of this means?

Like because the common golf fan doesn't care about Hayden Buckley, make them care about Hayden Buckley totally agree, and then it's a two step process. Make us care and then show in unbelievable neurotic detail how hard it is well and even to take it even further. So let's say that this, I mean, we know this show is gonna be beautifully edited and cut. It's gonna be jazzy, there's gonna be there's gonna be cool access. It could be

a thrilling TV show to Watts. I hope it is, but then you might still, you might stimulate all this fan interest and people who didn't care about the tour before it might be say how can check out the picture? Now they're gonna turn on these broadcasts that are so slow and bore an analog and don't have any storytelling and have all the flaws have been enumeraated a million times with everybody else. And it's like, if you're if,

you're trying to convert people. So when if you if if you, if you get into the F one you know Driver Survive show, then you're like, I'm gonna watch a race. Well, the F one racist are are spectacular on TV. There's no commercials. It's NonStop action. You're in the pitch, you're in the cars, things are happening. The production value super high. Like you watch a race, you're

hooked because the actual race is so thrilling. If you if you go from the Netflix show and then you then you watch a telecast like, wait, this is what I was excited about. This sucks. So that's even no matter how good this show is, it's gonna be hard to convert casual fans because the every week broadcasts are

so boring and so devoid of storytelling. And so it's like to think that that this show is going to revolutionize golf the way that Drive to Survive changed everything for F one is a fairy tale because the the product that the show is promoting is still as boring as it's ever been. The way it's presented to fans. I think again, this year has a huge chance to be amazing because of the live stuff. Uh, but next year,

that's obviously assuming they want to do. When F one has done multiple seasons, I don't know how many six or something like that, like next year it's going to be even richer. Guys, ye, season Season two of of the Netflix. So yeah, it's like it's gonna be super rich guys covering super rich. You know. Again, I hope I'm wrong, because if the show is good, it's good for golf trickled down, it's good for us, it's great for everyone involved. So I wanted to be good. I

have some hope that it's going to be good. I just don't. I just don't know how they create some sort of plot or drama. This is where we should talk about um the grind, because instead of just bitching about things, we've actually done something about it here at the Firetrit Collective, and we've put together a fifteen episode docuseries that is the antithesis of of this Netflix show, which,

by the way, full Swing. I'm not loving the name, but it is the very opposite where we have gone into the lives of of these fringe players and and tried to show that the struggles and the triumphs and the stresses, and we have incredible access. It's a very interesting and diverse group of players aspiring prose and obviously, Ryan, you were a huge inspiration for this show and the work you've done. Tell the listeners about the show and how excited you are and what it all means. Yeah,

beyond excited. Uh. I mean to think that I started a Twitter account and for just fun and somehow I've had some small influence on now how the show is insane. Uh. Yeah. The first we've done episodes individually, so each episode will be focused on one person, multiple people all across the world. Men, women, diversity, um and uh. The first couple episodes are with Mark Baldwin and uh, I just love that it will give

another level of look into these players lives. Um. We have a woman who's who lives in a van to make her dreams, you know, to try to chase the LPGA tour. We have guys who work on the side. I mean, this is what life looks like for I always say might be higher than that pro golfers across the world. Um and and I always say this is. Yes, there's pressure to win the Sony Open, or pressure to win the Masters or those kind of things. I am not discounting that pressure. But pressure for your rent or

pressure when you've matched out your credit card. Those puts means something. I promise at the A T and T Pebble Beach Pro am as we as Mark fell out of it on Sunday. Every stroke he was thinking about the tens of thousands of dollars that he was losing. Uh, it's only human nature. This was the chance of a lifetime. And we take you inside the ropes of what that

all means. All of it, Uh, not only for Mark, but a bunch of players, guys transitioning to pro golf, women, tren you know, chasing the LPGA tour at all of it would just take it. It is an important side of golf because I think the outside golf world thinks of it as a bunch of rich people and the fact of the matter is that a large portion of progolf are exactly opposite of that. Ryan, when you say, I would say literally, I mean, it's such a timey

number of people who make it. But that dream machine. I love that phrase that you know that others have used. But Brian muses very effectively of chasing it. Uh. That is so exciting about about this series that we're doing. And uh, you know, we all three of us have written about people with you know, chasing the dream machine in a wrong way. But um, it's that's alive because

there's a you know, there's a desperation there. I think it's perfectly summed up, and it's all through all fifteen episodes. But Saturday at a T and T Pebble Beach bro am, Uh, Mark was on Mark and I were on top of the world. And had he shot sixty eight the final day,

he would have changed his entire life. Uh, And he shot seventy and um what that means is in there, and uh, the reality of us waking up twelve hours later playing off of mats at a municipal course while playing uh a Monday qualifier for the waste management is in there. Uh. Pro golf comes at you fast, and there is. Mark's quote is there's twenty downs for every one up, but the one up makes all the twenty downs worth it. And so uh, we're there for the

twenty downs and we're there for the one up. You almost can't go deep enough about why he wasn't ready to shoot six or an he scored other than seventy five. That uh uh And that's really really the beauty of this game, he said. Even though he had all the skill set to shoot sixty eight, he couldn't shoot sixty eight. Yeah, that's what it is. And uh, I mean I've seen some of the episodes. I mean they're there's they look

like a Netflix or HBO quality. I mean our editors uh uh, you know Marco Ascalante, Greg Louis, others, Um, you know, Ax Peggy oversaw the the whole production side like it. They're beautifully done and the storytelling is is really strong, and it's a big thing for first here at the Collector. I think it'll expand and people's notions of of who we are and what we can do.

And you know, we have a lot of ideas like this, and you know, I mean I remember talking to Matt two years ago when we were just launching this thing, like we don't want to be golf Digest dot com. We want to be like we want to be Netflix, we want to be a movie studio, and um, you know this this is a big step in that direction. So it's exciting. You'll be able to those listen at home. You'll be able to stream the episodes on on our

website or also on our YouTube channel. And thanks to the you know, the generous support of golf Tech, you know, at least on our website, there won't be any ads. YouTube kind of a beds, a few things that are beyond our control, but it's really it's really clean product and it's really beautiful and we'll keep talking about it and we hope you guys will tune in because it's it's a big initiative for all of us guys that I have to go. I am ending it, which is

very rare in the Fire Drill world. I'm the one who usually says, hey, let's keep going, and I thank you guys on to tell more stories. But it's been an hour and uh, I'm making a trip. No, no, it's time for me to go. The kids would like to play in a pool in their hotel room and so uh yeah, we respect that. Right. Well, it's you know, you never know what you're gonna get here on the Fire Drill Podcast. So uh uh, fun conversation as always, and thank you Michael for bringing up Martin Luther King

day because that was not on my radar screen. So good stuff. All right, we do this every week. We're back in your ear soon for Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. This is Alan Schipnuk. That's a rap. Thanks for listening. Uh, that's the end. Been big played to win made a fortune game. I ran the table and thought I could call them we win. To hit me like a cannon. The ball and now I can't shake this, losing the streak.

Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I gott thoughts in my head and can't get him out, and trying not to think what I'm thinking about.