Fire Drill 060: Collin's Collapse

lot of good stuff from the ground obviously. We talked about UH, John's Rom's comeback, UH and Collin's collapses and whether this is a thing you know he did it at the Hero, he did it here and UM, you know whether it gets into his head. Um. We talked about a press conference that Jay had. Allen was there with him for a little over an hour. UH, talked to Live as always, UM, talked about Allen's book, UH, and just was a really good conversation as always. Michael Bamberger,

Alan Schipnik, and myself. UM, I do want to tell a quick story about my producer. Who's looking at me, Jake Huge Parker's fan. Right now, currently the Packers and the Lines are playing. Jake paused all like turned off his cell phone, paused the TV when we recorded, and was going to watch it as if it was live. And I forgot that, And at the end of the podcast told the score and and Jake just went hammerund me that I wish it was recorded, but I could

not stop laughing. Jake, I'm so sorry. Let's get to our sponsors. Uh, part points, go make par great scoring, A great way to make scoring. I know it's hard to change the way you score golf, but this is a great way to do it. Go to part points downloaded on your phone, Go make par Uh and then Dormy Workshop Artisanal have to say it every week. Uh Uh club covers, Putter covers awesome supporters of us and uh A big fan of them. So without further ado,

here's the three of us talking golf. That gott can't you j nothing? Well, what I'm thinking about? Can't get him that nothing? Think? Well, I'm thinking about I'm not so how much. You guys saw the turd of it today, but it was spectacular in its Uh. You know, you had called more acclif like he was gonna absolutely dominate and you led to death here in Paradise and John rom played absolutely beautiful round. Uh so what makes sports compelling?

Like people were just we're just saying it was over after after three rounds, but ain't over till it's over. So what what did you guys make of the day. Yeah, I didn't watch a single shot, but mostly in protest because you know, this is not my kind of tournament. But um, I saw a lot of it on Twitter obviously, Uh,

you know clips and stuff. I mean, Colin has now blown a five shot lead to the hero and a seven shot lead at the at the Tournament of Champions, and from the highlights I saw, it was like a full kind of melt down there, like chunk shots and making bogies on holes that are pretty easy. It's, uh, it's pretty wild. I mean, what a crazy sport. I mean he literally dominated for whatever, seventy sixty six holes

sixties holes without and then just like imploded. I mean it's metaphysical, right, like you're you're playing that well, and uh you did look quite as comfortable there too, But again that's more about the emotional of the physical, and uh, it's what makes tournament golf such a great theater. Feel sorry for the guy at the human level, but man, it was. It was fascinating. What was the heat and humidity like out there? Because Colin Marcar was wearing those

polyster shirts they usually know. I mean, he's so slender and fit, and he was perspiring like crazy, which you very seldom see in Hawaii. What was going on? It's yeah, it's been hot, you know. Wednesday and Thursday was kind of overcast and off and on truly, but the last three days have been scorcher was like I saw one the mometer here in Maui was ninety degrees, so that's unusual. Yeah, I know, And this is a very difficult golf course

to walk. It's funny the guys in practice around the zip round of golf carts and they like it looks like the nowe five hundred out there. I mean, these dudes are racing for me to be to see that. They practice rounds of nineteen minutes and stuff like that. But I feel like it's almost a disservice because they don't really you know, all the hanging out having the mindy ties whatever, and then you can get to Thursday,

you have to walk the golf course. I feel like like, you know, that was maybe what happened to Mark how he's asked out there. So that's a good observation, Michael. It was hotter than usual, it was. It wasn't much breeze. They also made the golf course a lot trickier, bouncier, you know, I asked, I asked Ron afterwards. Its like, you know, last year you had Shuffler gets the number one, camp Smith to get the number one, Grey get number one, Like feel all left out, man, like hurt your pride?

And he kind of puffed up and he's like, yeah, you know, I think I'm the best golf in the world. And you know, it was definitely a statement victory. So it's cool to see him do it. Well, I'm sure I'll tell me more of Ron, but just to go back to Colin here for a second. I mean what you just saut on fitness should be his stock in trade. I mean, just to look at this guy. He's he's young, he's slender, he's strong as an ox for his weight. You'd think he's going nine year holes with anybody. Yeah,

well you just get married, you know. So he maybe have done a little too much partying and honeymooning and other things, and he doesn't doesn't hasn't so as much time with the Jim or what ever. But yeah, and it's funny because you know, wrong is he's got like like because he's obviously the way his body moves, he's an athlete. It doesn't look like an athlete, right. I was old, Chunky's thick and uh, but he looked fresh man.

He looked like he could play another eighteen goal. So it's amazing what adrenaline will do an emotion because his rom was like in that that chasing boy had that he had the scent and there was so much pep in his step and Mark Cow's hang dog and shoulder slums and muttering to himself and then you're playing like that, it's like all the life force drains out of it. Was it was really interesting to see. It's interesting to hear you said that about Ram because he's a big,

big boy in every way. But you know, when he threw one of these fist pumps from making a put, you know, uh, late on Sunday, he really looked like some of these great boxers in there a lot of years, even like Ali. You know, Ali was was not slender at the end when he was still good. Maybe that's not the best example performing and and and various others. He looks strong as an I mean, he looked like he could go with anybody in any sport. He just

looked big, strong, mean, tough, the whole athletic package. So it was like, yeah, if you just saw him being, know, sitting in asana, you'd say this guy's lead athlete. But then if you see him in action, and then the swinging speaks for itself, and you can't swing that fast back in down without being absolutely superb athlete. Look, you were seen in the soccer ball. He's he could. He's

got great feet. It's kind of like you know, Chimolajua on the Basketball player group played playing soccer and that's why he was so good. In the post, he was like he was dancing in there, and I think there's something to do that with wrong. He's just he's just he's got incredible motor patterns and uh, you know he's he's what you do with your hands and the golf swing is very different what you do with the soccer ball your feet, you could do both, So uh, don't

be fooled by the package. It's like Carl Peterson He's like one of my all time favorite pet golfers because he looked absolutely dumpy and anyone like five times and just you know, obviously the wall or is to go down the list. Bob Bob Murphy was like that in the seventies. Yeah, big Big, the young Big Jack. I mean, these guys don't look like quote unquote athletes with their hand eye coordination, their explosiveness, that's the ability to you know, swing a club a onter two miles an hour and

hit a little dime size spot over and over. Incredible, they can do it. Uh, And let us not forget to make our obligatory but totally authentic nod to John Rom's spic tacul or use of the English language. I mean, he just expresses himself so well in good times and bad. He expresses himself with his face and he's got a great emotional face, but the actual words that come out of his mouth always blows me away how well spoken

this guy is. And Sergio was the name, and a off the ball was the same, but he especially, Yeah, I know, there's like this old world like courtliness. It's almost a little formal his language, and I love it, and so I just as is my wan. I just sneaked into this thing upstairs at the capital of the clubhouse.

It's a centuries the the tournament sponsor, and so traditionally Jamnahan always as a Q and A with the champion, and it's just for the century of V I P. S. But I went to the back door and they have this incredible spread of sushi. So I got this huge plate and I stur on the balcony, facing away from the stage and the crowd and just stuffed my face and no one to recognize me. And then as soon as I started talking, I turned around and started paying attention.

And but you know in that that's a little more informal setting. The mark Rolfing is, you know, the patriarch. He saw me, He texts me, please don't quote this. I don't want to get in trouble whatever thing. But do you think you're sneaking around days? You're gonna be harder now post the phil Exclamation working book. Uh, I don't know. I mean, you got you gotta blend in.

So if I'm standing there taking notes, yeah, you know, I take my credential off and you get that, you get you know, two pounds worth of good nagiri and they're stoked. No one's no one really. I wasn't gonna ask what's what's the best place you've snuck into as a but we all know how that ended. Yeah, public having but anyway to go back to my rom and that atmosphere, were still relaxed. He's drinking in Tina Colada

and um Monahan's not a great interviewer. Every sentence begin to talk about, talk about, talk about you know, it's like just ask a question, Jay, not to make a statement. This is like interviewing one on one. But anyway, and Jay, we don't use the command form at the elite levels of the game. They're human beings, they're not robots. Anyway,

in that setting, ram will still relaxed. And yeah, he spoke so beautifully about the feeling he has here in the Islands, and him and his wife and the two sons. They come over on December twenty seven and they put the phone in the drawers, he said, and they just relaxed and they just live like uh, like true vacationers and it kind of eases them into the week. And then last year it whatever did win because camp it was absolutely nuts but um, you know, it's obviously found

the right formula. But it was just it was sweet to hear he was. He was so eloquent and at some point, you know, he stopped speaking in Monahan was just he just said, how good is that to the crowd, like there's nothing to say. It was just so it was like speaking the whole lovely paragraphs. So yeah, and I was like, he didn't win by he didn't win by one. He went by two, and he was he made a bogey on one and he was nine shots

back on the second hole. As much as we want to talk about John Raum and obviously a great round, but I mean a couple more like one more big lead lost by Colin. I mean, it's kind of like a five shot lead and a seven shot lead is pretty tough to like that. That's tough to swallow. It's gotta be in your head a little bit. The next time he gets way ahead. Oh no, he's in the danger zone for sure. And and don't forget he's at the Tournament of Champions and he's not even a champion.

He hasn't one since two thousand twenty one. He got in with this new criteria Trophy, the new criteria of let's pay our best players. Everybody's invited. Everybody, Yeah, every every elite informally elite golfer is still in the league golfer on the PGA Tour. So true. I related. I related. I saw on Twitter, uh Collins j J. Collins Caddy j J. There was a clip of him like putting his arm around Colin and like trying to pump him up,

and it took me back. Obviously not comparison, but Uh, I was kidding for Mark Baldwin in a corn ferry event in Chicago and we were like four off the cut line, not even dreaming about the cut because like a couple more birdies were in contention, and uh it was.

It was Friday and Mark starts made one bogey and you're like, yeah, it's fine, man, no problem, more good, and then it makes another bogey and then you're like you you can say something like all right, dude, let's you know, start fresh here, and then you make another bogie. There's nothing really to say, you know anymore. You're just like putting your arm around him and you're like okay, And then the fourth bogie when you missed the cut

and you're like there's nothing to say. You're just like out of luck, you know, and JJ did all of those. I saw a couple of clips, you like try to encourage him and then try to give him the old hand pat and then there's just sometimes that there's nothing to just say. You just sit there and watch your player blow it. Yeah, how agonizing is that? Ryan? Yeah, it's It's the most helpless feeling I've had in golf. Is like, uh, you know, I mean you're watching a

guy just like Mark. It was in a different circumstance, but it doesn't matter. It's the same feeling. I would assume, uh, you know, Mark needed to make cuts to move up the money list, and it's like just helpless. You're watching the guy make bogey after boge and you're just like there's nothing you can do. You can only there's only so many pep talks you can make, and before the guys like get out of my face, you know, and just like you gotta leave him alone at some point. Well, right,

that's that's golf. Golf, you know, like college basketball and a lot of other sports, it is really really really hard to change momentum and golf um and of course it goes to John Rom too, though. You know, bogie on one when you're look like you're helplessly out of it and then turn around, that's hard. Although we've talked about bogies on one before sometimes or Jeff Ogilvie has sold us Alan about bogie on one how that can

sort of turning around sometimes, but not in this setting. Uh, bogion one is a total I give him credit, Michael at Cappela when he's already you know, money is obviously not a thing like you can easily you make a bogie on one and you can easily pack it in.

I mean, it's a it's a no cut event. Everybody's gonna get rich no matter where are you finished, So you're kind of like to dig down and actually go after in an event, like in any event, obviously, but like even an event like this, which is that has a tone of hit and giggle for sure, maybe not as the lead on Sunday, but it's not like a huge grind fest out there. Rom's a little different man. He runs so hot. I was talking to his wife afterwards and I said, you know, was he grumpy last year?

That guy saw thirty three under work can you do? And she's like, he was extremely grumpy. Anytime he doesn't win, he's grumpy. It's like even when he wins, he sometimes grump because he thinks they could done something better. Like he's, um, he wants it. You know, It's one thing I like

about it's palpable that desire you look at. You know, Cam Smith, You're not sure how deep the ambition runs, you know, but like wrong man, he's he's hungry and he's not one three of his last four starts worldwide, and he's very prideful. He's told me he wants to get back to number one. He wants to win more majors, like he's he's a guy who thinks about his legacy in the game. And I love that because he's obviously

it's attactive talent and he's chasing it hard. And that's that's all you can want from a great player, you know, Like they don't always anything or see But it's frustrating when you see a talent and they're they're not really that into it and they have an okay career, but they're never what you think. I don't know, NA mean name is Fred Couples, but it's like it's it's more

satisfying when guys go after that. And now to to your point, you know, when we hear John Rum talking about, you know, the world ranking points said it's a joke that lives on getting world ranking points, you know, which is basically what he has said. It's got to be rooted in the fact that he wants to beat the

best in the world, no matter where they're playing. Uh So, if you're if you're going to give him, you know, but not a hundred percent of the world's best players at Major's and the Players Championship especially, um, it means him actually, uh he came to United States to take on the world. He plays in Europe to take on the world. And uh, uh so I think what you I think there's a lot of truth. There is a lot of truth to what to what you just said. And and uh and and Rum has put his his

words in for for what he believes. Hey, I don't this this has nothing to do with Colin or but it doesn't have to do with the century in the PGA tour. No one has said it. I don't know if it's even legitimate. But Xander withdrew because of a bad bag. Is there any rumblings Allen that you're hearing on the ground of Like would he have played normally, he probably would have just taken the week off, right, but like he didn't want it to He didn't want

to burn his one out of these elevated events. And then he comes here and he gets hurt worse or maybe not worse, but he just like aggravates his injury right Like I would guess if this was a normal century Tournament of Champions, he would have just not played. So this is interesting. Um. Every every year Monaghan Jamonahan, the commission with PGA Tour has had a little informal Q and A with reporters here. There's usually very few of them. Last year because of Covid was only Doug Fergus.

He's literally the only guy, um. But it's a nice turnout this year because it's a start's whole new europe On tour. They'll BEGA events and everything else. And so uh I was one of about a dozen guys went to this little windowless conference room this morning right after Markow it teed off and j J took questions for about an hour and it was big for me because I've been trying to get audience with him all of last year, and he was ducking me, and his colms

people were ducking me, and they were run interferes. I was texted j he wasn't answering, And I finally got him at cornered him at the Door Championship and looked me in the eyes and said, okay, I'll talk to you. And and he's still duck in me. And so I finally I finally got him, even though I hate to have to share with everybody else, but I like this is I mean, I'm gonna keep bird dogging him, but uh, and so it was. It was a very productive session.

I got to ask some super granular questions that no one else in the world will care about, but are very important to me as I've written this book about the future, let just live and all that stuff. But one thing that came out of this conversation is that um Monahan admitted that he has the ultimate discretion on the pit. And then even if you don't, if you don't play twelve out of thirteen events, you can still dole out what you would have gone. But you could

call the tiger rule. This tiger is only gonna play two out of thirt you know or whatever, like this is bad news for the Travelers. This is very bad, he said, situational. I'll have to weigh the situation. But you know, so uh yeah, if guys just want to go on a vacation, but yeah, you may there may be some quote unquote stiff backs during some of these lesser elevated events. And Monahan is gonna what's he gonna do?

Not give Rory his fifteen million dollars of Roy skips a couple more like, you know, Royce saved the tour, Like, let's wahn do He's not going to give tigers and money Tigers the de facto commissioners so and and Mike and Michael brought this up last week. Is like Rory plays all over the world, so it's like, you know, I mean, this guy doesn't want to play the Travelers. He wants to take the week off. Frory and Rom

and a few other guys. They also have to play turn into the European Tour to keep their membership there, and so that goes into this whole scheduling matrix. That's why Roy did not come to this event that he's been trying to pick off European Tour start, you know, in the coming weeks, and it was just too much to make it all fit. But yeah, so not to me, was it was an interesting revelation. I mean, I've been calling the pit money a slush fund since the beginning,

but here's the ultimate example. You know, first you gotta play, you gotta play all thirteen events, you don't get any money, and then okay, sorry we jumped the gun. We'll say you gotta play toll out of thirteen. Okay, fine, just try your best boys and then we'll see how it

takes out at the end. Like so that that was that was That was a little nugget that came from this Q. And was that the session where because I read Doug story where there was a quote that said it's product versus product, now live versus p Was that your session that you were in? That was it? Yeah? Yeah, And I thought that was a good quote. I mean, um, yeah, there weren't any big revelations to come out of this conversation. It's really Monahan's first time meeting the Press Tour Championships.

That's a long time and the way things are moving quickly, Uh, in the geopolitics and professional golf. So um. You know, we did confirm that tour members who ask for releases to play the Saudi or National are gonna be granted those releases. It's not a live event, you know, it's a co sanctioned by the Asian Tour. There's a precedent for letting guys go over there and play. It's still a bad look to the tour because they're all gonna be in England with you know, golf. Saudi basically funds

Live and they also fund this tournament. It's gonna be all this cross pall nations with the live guys, leadership and tour players, and it's gonna be some troubling optics and will surely, you know, set off a whole round of rumors that that's what doesn't want to deal with. But uh, they're not in a position right now addicting anything. And as they face this antitrust lawsuit from Live, the last thing they're gona do is prevent their independent contractors

from going and all this money. So um that that was a little nugget that came out of it. You still haven't decided on field size for the future elevated events, so they're going to be cuts. And I was kind of pressed them on that point, like, you know, hey, the biggest thing the tour has different to differentiate itself from live. There's a competitive aspect. Semi two holes we've cut. And I said, look, you go for the Tour Championship to the Hero to Maui. Tiny fields, no cut, big money,

World ranking points. I was like, this is kind of fishy man like He's like, yeah, we're gonna look at everything going forward and there may be some structural changes

to every event on our schedule. So um, but yeah, product product against product is definitely because the mantra of the tour and I talked to a lot of guys this we've got a lot of different things related to this whole you know, uh battle between warring tribes, and um, I sensed that the tour guys are settled in their position now, like we've done the best we can do.

We've made this as attractive as we can. We've got the guys who want to be here totally bought in and now we're just gonna go play golf and not worry about it. So it was interesting. There's a peacefulness around the PGA tour that hadn't existed I think previously. Did did he go down that Norman must go road that, which I think is nutty at all. I asked him, I said, hey, big Norman called you tomorrow. Would you take the call? And it's like, do you have a

fiduciary duty to answer the phone? And he's like, you know, he didn't be like I gotta like to play hypothetical. It was like, literally just said five minutes ago that your whole job is looking into the future and game planning for future threats and predicting the future and all these different models. It's like you live in the world of hypotheticals. But when reporters presentive, he doesn't want to he doesn't want to answer. Alan, you didn't answer that.

You didn't ask the question right away. You should have had the palling talk about what you would do when Norman my bad, Yeah, he didn't. He didn't want to touch anything happened to do. And that was that question I think touched off atill. So will it be about product against product? And we just like we are who we are, this is the best product we can present. We're gonna have all these players coming together. Uh yeah, yeah,

that's that's you know. Wheels out tourists earlier said hey, man, if you don't like what we're offering, then watch something else, Like this is the best we can do. To be fair, a lot of less people watched the product, and this will bring up a bigger discussion. I think Ryan Blanche like tweeted out that a lot of less people have watched every day the thing. Then last year supposedly a better field. I mean it is a better field than last year. I think it brings up like people are

sick of pro golf. I mean, I think they're they're like tired of all the politics. I hope, for everybody's sake that all of this crap just calms down. I don't think that's possible, but I think people are just growing tired of the constant. And it's like the article I sent you guys about cart and I r L is like people just got tired of listening to the battle and eventually they got turned off of everyone live

the PGA tour. They just got hired of you know, rich in their eyes, rich babies winding about more money. It's a great point. Uh, that is a real that is a real danger for professional golf everywhere. Really, yeah, I mean we had John rom versus Colin Morikawa, everybody, every name brand, Like I think Brendan Prath tweeted at one time there was a screenshot of the of the um the leaderboard and every player in the top ten was a writer cover And I mean we had that.

It was a dream leaderboard and people weren't watching. Now again where we like, was there more shutdowns last year so more people were in their house and blah blah blah. There's a lot of factors. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but I just think less people watching a better field tournament with more money might not be the might not be the way forward. You know. Uh, it's just one off, no problem, over and over and over again. It's concerning that people are just tired of golf. That's

a good point. It's such a pleasing telecast with all the scenery and all the crazy shots, Like, we're not enjoying this telecast that I don't know if to tell you. But just to Ryan's point about people being turned off by this whole by the rhetoric, uh, and and the bitchiness. I was talking to some live folks last week because I'm still trying to get another audience from Greg Norman's, and they said, well, we're kind of shutting Norman down because he always takes the bait. You know, he just

can't help himself. But every interview tries to wind him up and then he says something inflammatory and then it just goes around the world and then there's live executives that it doesn't it doesn't serve us. Well, like we're afraid of turning off fans, we're afraid of overshadowing that we're trying to do here, and so there is so it's your there is some awareness amongst the stakeholders that, uh, you know, it was fun and juicy for a long time, and of course we talked about it, wrote about and

it gave us. As I've said before, it was a gift from the content gods. But I think, yeah, there may be a weariness they're saying Ryan and I had to gooth sides of the wise to be aware of that, you know, when Ryan tweeted, When Ryan tweeted that about the viewership being down, you know, I think the rhetoric

on on Twitter has cooled. Alan I don't know if you feel that, but like I used to tweet like camp Smith was the better, you know, the best player in the world, and he'd be like, oh, you just love Live, right, and like he'd you know, screw him, he left or whatever. And there's just not that much of that anymore. And and I and I don't take it as people like or dislike Live any less. It's they're worn out. They're like worn out of all of it.

They're tired. I mean, we were all tired of it on Twitter, right, like again, uh when I said it on the podcast Lesson and then I went and read that article that I sent you guys. I mean, people just get tired of it. A bunch of millionaires and billionaires fighting over more millions and more billions gets exhausting after a while, and one wants to watch it. And IndyCar never recovered, and I'm concerned that's where golf is headed and then implied and everything you're saying, Ryan, I think,

is this fundamental fact that Live will never fix. No one will ever fix it. It's just the nature of golf, slow, contemplative game. So you gotta you know, you have a young audience that can watch college basketball or the NFL or golf. You had to say with this broadcast for three plus hours to get to anything remotely resembling adanument.

Basketball and football are total NonStop fix. I know in college football or the NFL, they're not using whatever you've done them, won't it's a little friends for you, Ryan, Okay, Yeah, yeah, it's it's um. I know the downside to Tiger Woods arrival and to talk about we're gonna open a golf course a day and golf can become the part of the Big Four. Like golf has always been a boutique sport. It's always going to be, and I think the game runs into problems when it tries to do something that

it's not. And it's you just have to you have to keep the hardcore fans happy that the casual fans will tune in for the Masters in the US Open Tiger. But you know the real question for when you look at the ratings is it's not why community, why can golf not compete with football? It's why why I have some of the hardcore fans turned away from the town like cats, Like that's where the soul SURGECT should be and it's a it's a small number, it's a small tribe,

but it is important. Um. You know again, there was like with this tournament started on on on Thursday. It wasn't on TV. You know, you had traditional TV. You had to you had to go to ESPN Plus for the streaming and even then they only had um future groups in certain holes. It's like all this anticipation, it's opening day and it was like you had a lot of people had to have the app to have to sign up for the street trial, had to like he was like, you know, if you're a bar, they're never

gonna be able to turn it on for you. It's just like, oh, man, like why does golf always do this to itself? It's just be especially somewhere beautiful like this, but it looks great on TV and you might might snag some casual fans, like in prime time, in prime prime time. What was it what was like to be for you to be back in the saddle. It's been a while since you've been to a PGA Tour event.

I don't know when when. The last one would have been maybe at the British Open, which is not even ordinary PG Tour event by any means, yeah, it was. It was a tour championship. And but even that one, I was, I was, I was there. I didn't stayed for the finish. I was ere a kount for the early week announcements and and did interviews and the features, and um, so I haven't, I haven't, I haven't. This is the hardest I've grounded out in a tournament a

long time. It's been fun, you know. I did a big piece on Thursday kind of what it all means, big picture for the parting like the dot com uh. And then on Friday wrote about George Speth and Tom Kim this budding friendship and mentorship, which that was really

keypes to. I really enjoyed that one. I'm gonna have a big Amonahan thing that will drop here in an hour two and then I'll write, am My, some really fun reporting from my markcow at rom Peace and you know, probably right now and playing right home tonight and you know, done some videos now we're doing we're doing this this podcast. So I enjoyed it. I mean, it's a great week

for the reporters. The average fans aren't always tuned into like if you go to if you go to lambeau Field like that, it's very defined where you do interviews, where it's it's immutable. Nothing ever changed for Cheesu season, but every week, every different venue, where the locker room is, the practice facilities, how the players moved from point at a point B. Some weeks it's really easy to get guys,

and some weeks it's really difficult. But this is this is a great week because it's intimate, there's very few fans. The way everything's configured, there's always little spaces where you can guys aside and get them one on one. And so I had an ex greamely productive week, not just in what the content I'm pumping out already, but banking for fature stories and for this book. So it was it was great fun. I had had a fun week,

and there was a media party on Friday night. You can eat and drink and you should skip those kind of things. But here is I don't know. I was in spirit, so a little smoothing and see people in the pool the elevator. Did you hear anybody mentioned the

name Bryson deshambo Um? No it you know, Actually I was I was talking to Mark Rowl thinking, of course is the patriarch of Capalua, and he had a whole riff about all the guys he he misses because he really afforded personal relationship with them, like he loved Dustin. He told me something really funny Dustin partying in New Year's um tales, including the time that Dustin borrowed Mark Ralfin's pickup truck and abound up abandoning it at the

wrong hotel. They couldn't find it for days, like classic dust and uh. And he had a he had a picture he called up in his phone. He was talking to Phil Nicholson right by the eight team green because you know Phil, last year came he'd wanted his a PG championship unexpectedly right at h fifty one. I felt like your respect of all the live stuff, you know, who knows. I felt like he brought like twenty people. It was like everybody'd ever met in his life. It was just they blew it out and so no Phil,

you know cam Smith locker. It was interesting that he had a nameplate and an empty locker. I don't know why they did that. Um and it was kind of poignant, you know, it was like just crammed in with all the other guys, and there's Cam's empty empty locker, you know, defending Champs um So. And you know, Rali said, Man, I'm sad because I I think I think Cam Smith could be the next Tom Watson, and I'm not sure we'll ever find out how good he could really be

played on with. And so he was like, he's the guy who could have come back from the year after year. He could have made his mark on this tournament, on this golf course and proof we're all gone. And so yeah, Ralfie more than anybody know. He's kind of the heart people this whole place. So uh he he misses the players. Everyone else, you know, we've moved on, screw those guys, but he was a little more honest about it. It is wild too, And I know we've brought this up

probably everyone, but it is wild. Like Brason de Shamba was the best player in the world not very long ago, and he is just like Brooks too. And you know, Dustin to some extent, maybe Dustin is a little more prominent in all of our thought process, but man, it's wild. It is wild. And those guys, as we talked about last week, desperately needed good finish at some of these majors this year to just be relevant. Yeah, I mean none.

I don't think any of us were playing. We're paying close attention to the day and day stuff on on the Live Tour, but Dustin was playing at the entire level. He's contending week after week. He won. He was a season long champion and his team was won the championship. Like, if you play well enough there, you will be in some headlines and you will get some coverage. So Dustin helped make himself relevant. He contended to British Open and

this and that. So, um, I mean, you're right, it's a guy like like Bryce and he struggled all year on Live like he's just he doesn't existing. It's wild. Um, what was Mark like? And to defeat very classy, signed every autograph, was super gracious, every volunteer, you know, yeah yeah yeah, at one point uh yeah, two point seven of the winner. But it was but you know how, you know how we do it, Michael, like you and

I with the observational reporting. It's like at the end of it, I kind of waited for Colin to come out of the locker room and the facade had kind of melted away. Shoot was untouched. He's wearing flip flaws. They had given him a leg to where coming off the eighteenth creed long gone discarded, and he looked pretty beaten, like he's definitely in the danger zone. I mean, obviously flying start to his career, two major championship. He's still

only twenty five. I mean, he's got all the time in the world to get back to where he was, but struggling with his swing a little bit. Um didn't hasn't one in a year and a half, had a two way misgoing for part to last year, which no pro really wants to have, and now in the last month he's got his teeth kicked in twice on Sunday. Um, there's some scar tissue there. And you know when guys are candid, like you know, uh, you know, and Phil is really candida about what Wingfut did to him. You know,

he said two years to recover from that. This is in the US Open. Colin does not have the annual psychodrama like philmed but nevertheless, like he's these things leave scar tissue, and uh, to do it twice and back to back in such proximity, it's uh, it's it's tough man. He's gonna have to rebuild himself. When he laid the side over on fourteen fifteen whatever, that one was like, well that was that was like, I mean, you can

make bogis as a pro. And I think all of us, Johnny Miller obviously overuse the word like you know, nerves and pressure and all that kind of stuff, like sometimes you just don't play great golf. But there was like the few highlights I saw on Twitter, We're like, whoa this guy that looked like the pressure got to him or he just didn't trust his swinging off or whatever not the pressure got to him. But like, you know, you're holding on pros, no, like you're holding out of

these swing changes. I think I read it like Peter Costas said, like a real test of whether a swing change is working is when it's under pressure and rom got close and the swing change didn't work. You know, not that it's not gonna work long term, just in

this instant it's not gonna well. In which was a very easily drive ablepar four, you know more account missed in the bunker, which with the pin was as a tough bunker shot, but then brained it over the green like everyone was making out worst of three there and

he made a five like that was brutal. And then yeah, they left that ship and just it was And then of course you think about what happened to Hero that that snipe into the into the bushes that really cost of and he also chunk to chip there, like it wasn't just it wasn't just one thing to heard him like, Okay, I just had a bad day with the driver, and I could the tight course, I couldn't get around, like this is super wide golf course, like it's very playable,

and but all parts of his game were leaky, you know. It was there's a lot of mistakes, well swings. It was short game and he's missing five, six, eight flours. He had to make like a total breakdown. So if it was just one swing the motor pattern here, like okay, I just need more reps, but it we went deeper than that. So that's that's the troublesome thing. Like he's got a few he's got to tighten up a lot

of stuff. Orkay, can I ask you guys a question on a on a semi related sevenect Gordon's sergeant a year old. I think sophomore at Vanderbilt got an invitation to the Masters. Um. It's not something that happens every day. It's totally actually out of the ordinary for the for the for the modern Masters. Back in the day, it would not have been maybe s ordinary when they were giving out more invitations to more aminent golfers. But how do you guys read that that invitation? What do you

think is actually going on there? The PGA Tour called and said, hey, can you get this guy one? And we'd like to keep our young players please, and we'd like to show them how great the PGA Tour is. I think that's probably the end of the story, because there's just no way that it's not like like I would guess that the Green Jackets are pro PGA Tour. They're obviously smart enough to not kind of play it down the line, and uh, you know, Sergeant is by

far and away. It seems like one of the best young players coming up and they want to keep the end of story. To me, Yeah, that that has the ring of truth. I mean, there has been a movement for a while to include the double a champion among AUTOMATICUM invites to the Masters, and as uh, you know, fred Ridley, who was the last US Amateur champion not to turn pro. He's the answer to the trivir question. He certainly venerates the amateur game and he's been involved

in his whole life. And so I could see that and something this was being discussed. That's something he wanted. He wasn't st pull the trigger. And then yeah, a few phone calls from Jay and Tiger and Rory maybe nudge in one direction. But um, I think I think it's the right call. I mean, the amateurs always add had a nice touch. There's only eighty guys in the field. He's the eightieth player in the master's field. I mean

it's really small. There's been some years where they've gotten it up up into the into the nineties and approached a hundred I mean eight players at a major like and you know a bunch of them are are past champs or let's say past their prime. Like it's a time you feel they who they would be. It might behoove them to invite some other guys and just just

to get more depth. I mean, to be wild if if winning the Master's got to fewer world ranking points than winning you know, l I opened but it could happen, you know now that the changes are stacked towards bigger fields. I'm not suggesting that really the Green Jackets care about that, but it's really where the games headed. Like it's acceptance

that bigger the field, the harder is to win. That's baked in the world ranking out and so I have only eighty guys in them after that, um, I think that they think they looked around and said, yeah, let's expand this a little bit, so we'll see if any any others come down the line. Though, that's an interesting subtext in this era where again no major has to use the world ranking because it's as it's criteria for filling out the field. That's just been the recent tradition.

It used to be the money list, it used to be other things like so maybe maybe this is also the Green Jackets set a way of the emphasizing the world ranking and saying, you know what we recognize as flawed right now, and we're just we're an invitational or we're going to really lean into that so we don't bite ten more guys. And I think I think that'd be cool. Why not when you think about a player like Wills Altars who grew up playing a lot of golf with Lanny Watkins and Lanny's sons, and uh played

a lot of golf with Lee Trubino. Um, there's a golfer who's in this system of the pathway to the PGA Tour. Cam Smith is not in that system, and even Brooks, Cupcambryson, Dish and Bow and Dustin Johnson are not really in that system. Um, but uh, young Gordon Sergeant could be and you if you're the PGA Tour, you would want him to be. And guys of course returning pro younger and younger right now. Uh So with all that in mind, I think it's smart, right I mean,

ire Michael, I think it's smart too. And the changes with p G A two or you, um, you know, make it easier. He used to be towards seniors. Now you can earn points enough that basically, you know, Gordon Sargent, assuming he can meet some milestones, can walk right onto the PGA Tour whatever year he wants to turn pro.

So I mean there's we have said many times on this podcast that to me, the PGA Tour losing older guys at seven doesn't really mean much but they start losing and see a champions or US Amateur champions and they have already. Uh that that's the core problem of of what the future is, assuming that live is playing the long game, right. You want the dream machine to be for any American kid. Of course it's a great, big world out there, but let's just speak for for

a minute for American kids. And of course America does produce a tremendous amount of golf talent. You want the dream machine to be play really good college golf for a year or two or three or four and play your way onto the PHA Tour because that's what has worked forever. And if that stops working, then the PA Tour really has a problem. I talked to Tom Kimn this week most have ever spent time with them, and it was it was cute. He said, I've only ever

dreamed about playing the PJA Tour. That's what I grew up. That's that's dream has never left me and I can't wrap my head around any other dream. And uh, it was just kind of a throwback, like there's something powerful about about that. It's what you watched, it's what it's what was that was your target and he's young enough, I guess to still be it an idealist. So I think there's some that's probably the strongest thing that tour has.

I mean, product against product is definitely better than Live. I think they'll do that, but it's probably the baked in nostalgia and the years and years of of Uh. He was aspirational and it's hard to let go of that, especially for these young guys. You know, when you go to these court own dramas and like, you know what, the prosecutor makes his argument, You're like, yeah, that's really good, and then the defense gets up there, Yeah that's really good.

Like you don't know where which way to go. So now that you've been sort of going back and forth between Live and the PGA Tour, do you find yourself sort of how are you handling the whiplash of it all? Yeah?

That that's it's a good question because what I'm always talking to people on both sides and they're they're all very passionate, and it does like it does sway you nudges you, um, you know I And it's been interesting, Like I got my hands on this hundred and sixteen page Perspectives from the World Golf series, which is what became the PGL, which is what basically Live people stole.

And when you when you read through this document, which is really well thought out and really well written by this guy, Andy Gardeners' obsessive golf fan and successful corporate attorney type in the UK. Everything it's like this great pieces and it makes sense and you get fired up, like, yeah, that's awesome. In practice it hasn't looked out quite as well, but I think all of all the golf was right for change. Like like you said, I mean, it doesn't

appeal to a lot of sports fans. This is too slow, it's too boring. It's not the world we're living anymore. But it's also it's charmed. So Live represents this jazz year new way of packaging it. The tour represents, you know, kind of the old virtues of the game. I see, I see the merit and both sides, and I think's gonna run for office, Unlike just like play that right down the middle. I mean it's just like yet Ryan, also, Alan, you can run that. You can run with this Switzerland

thing for a while. Yeah words of Switzerland. I know you can't and you won't. That's part of my things. I haven't finished the books, so I don't want people to know my true feelings because then drop after readers. Right, But I mean like, I don't even that's like asking a question about social security and we ended up on like the border. You know, what the hell did you

just say? Like? Oh, and this I me talking to like we were on the PGL The man just asked you whether you like to live or the PGA tour. We're talking about a sixteen hundred sixteen page document. What the fun did you just say? Let the record show Ryan's first f momb of this broadcast tssib me the first of the new year. That's valid, Ryan, I'll take something. But I've said this before. My idea of neutrality is

being critical on both sides. I think that's going to be the tone of my book, and I think that reflects my innermost feelings. Well, I see the merrit what both sides have done. They both have screwed things up left and right. It's fun to get into that super super super nerdy question. What pg L did they ever have Saudi backing or the promise of Saudi backing? Even yes, so this is He's all gonna be in chapter five, Michael. But yeah, the um, I'm already bored on, so just

give me the answering reflected general public. Yes, so they they needed more money. The Saudies were not part of it. It was basically all European and some Australian money. But as things progressed and you know, the tour and European Tour through the Strategic Alliance in two thousand twenty, and it became clear that they were gonna need more of a war chest and if the players were gonna jump, they needed upfront guaranteed money. They didn't have that. They

went to the Saudis to help finance it. On the saudiastl Andy Andy Gardner people went to the SU and the studies like, wow, this is a cool idea. Thanks, We're gonna in every word of this hundred sixty page document and we're gonna call it live golf. And that's more or less what they did. And I totally expect this will get litigated in various jurisdictions because when you read this PGL document, I mean it is the live golf to a t. Maybe they had the nickname the

Niblicks for one of the Jeams. No, but do you have a list of a proved names And it's like the Wholfhounds, the Samurai. You could see them for being stupid if they did. Was Norman ever associated with PGF No, No, not to my knowledge, he he was. He was associated with the Saudis and they had this first Shaudy Golf summow.

He was a paid speaker. And so this is actually, I think what's gonna be interesting in this book to a lot of people is the cloak and dag or courtroom knock out, boardroom drama, and the backstabbing and the betrayal because to the top executive from the PGL went over to Live Golf and that was like, you know, we talk about the hat feels in the McCoys and so it's just it's fascinating how this idea worked its way through this whole ecosystem. All the people who touched

it were affected by it. And that was actually something I asked Monahanton because I've been trying to what did Jay know and when did he know? They actually say that about Nixon and water Gate, And I finally got Monahan on record that he had heard about this World Golf series which was the three cursor of the PGL in two thousand seventeen, and so that was an interesting piece of the puzzle to me. I got join Speed, who was a player director back then, to amplify some

of that. And like, this has been kicking around for a long time. Different iteration. I'm sure remember when when Davis told us, uh that, he said to Jay, you're you're freaking out here? What are you so nervous about? Basically, yeah, a lot. There's a lot to be nervous about. A lot of smart people didn't really see a threat coming or downplayed it or didn't know how to react or got got caught, you know, sleep at the wheel and picked your metaphor. But um, it's fastening to tease it

all out. And that's that's where I am in the book. And so it's had reporting in real time. This week has been cool. We had a pandemic going on. I mean I remember talking to Norman in this period early two first let's say, three months of the pandemic and Norman's working on this thing every day and like, I'm stunned. Here's this impetuous man who's like, yeah, we'll wait it out. Waited out, we've never had this pandemic before. How are you gonna be a who's gonna be alive at the

end of this thing? Well, it's all part of it. Because the pandemic. European Tour is getting killed and they're playing they're playing events with you know, the person like twenty bucks, and that became an opening for the PGL. They tried to partner for the European Tour that got

Monahan's antenna. Of all of a sudden, you know, the PGA Tour swooped in with the strategic alliance that was they didn't they didn't care about the Europeans or what they cared about was rebuffing these outside influences and so and and then at some point that the European Tour then they had given up their leverage and so they've been easily cast aside because they're like it is fascinating as a as as a cloak and dagger business story.

It's it's so much fun to piece it all together, like and there's a lot of people don't know, and there's a ton that I've learned along in the way and getting all these you know, uh, big time corporate dudes and and financiers, lawyers to talk to me. That's

been a fun challenge. And so I'm getting more and more excited about this book because I get deeper into it, because I'm feeling back all these mysteries, and people are starting to give it up and start starting to get a deeper understanding of how we got to this moment. I need the broad strips, of course, but it runs really deep and it's a cool story. Can we let our poor producer, Jake, who's probably just I mean, I

would love to have a cam on. So for those that don't know, Jake Muldoonney is our producer, A die hard Packers fan. I'm a Lions fan. But the Lions lost so today or the Seahawks one today, so the Lions don't have a chance. But the Lions and the Packers are currently playing for the last playoff spot. The Packers need to win to get in. It's sixteen to thirteen currently, and Jake usually like slams chairs and like

goes insane during the game. So I can only imagine what this poor guy is going through as we'd like talking about the golf, and it's almost the fourth quarter. It is the start of the fourth quarter. Currently, can we just let this guy go so he can go and sane quietly forget, forget the listener. Let's let's end this podcastah and have to home tonight. But let's make a nod to our corporate sponsors, Century and FedEx. Thank you, Thank you gents and ladies and gentlemen of Centry and FedEx.

Um to use the phrase, Allen's you help us keep the lights on and keep this whole thing going. And we're just glad to have you in our corner. I know this is not a customary role for me, but I just feel moved to say that I only wish Mr Smith from FedEx were with us right now so we might chut him up. One of them can have a little little interview about it terrible and I believe you met Mr Smith with Echo Shoe Soul. I would they are. Luckily we don't do a CEO interview here

on the Fire Drill podcast. It's only myself, Alan, Michael Bamberger and Ryan French. We appreciate you listening, Um. The start of a new year. We'll be come at you guys every Sunday more or less in perpetuity. Um. But thanks for listening to this one. I'm gonna go catch a sense at your Maui and Michael, Philadelphia, Brian and Mr Get Jake and San Diego h thanks for listening, thanks for being here. Happy New Year, and we'll do it again soon. That's yet bigly to win a fortune

with my ship game. I ran the table and thought all then win, hit me, lack a cannon, the ball, and now shake losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head, can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head, I can't get him out, and trying not to think what I'm thinking about