Fire Drill 056: Fathers and Sons

your tongue, but I learned that today. Um. Yeah. But we talked a lot about his career and good things, bad things. It was really very interesting, one of those moments when I'm on this podcast that I kind of, uh, sit back and try to listen because it's great stories from guys who have had firsthand experience at Allan and Michael and Matt with him. So it was great. Talked about PNC obviously, UM and Tiger and Charlie and and just all the things that come with it. Tiger as

a father, Uh, Tiger's place in the game. Uh. Out of least places in the game that we all need to chill delf out about like everything that Charlie does. Um. We don't need to be that into Charlie. There can

be a level of interest without a stalker situation. Uh. And then lastly, uh, we talked about O W g rum Matt had put out a tweet UM a little bit to go maybe last week that kind of went a little bit sideways at times UM, and he came on to kind of explain his thoughts and we all joined in about O W G R and and what

it looks like in the future. So it's a great debate four of us instead of three uh this week before we get into the actual podcast, obviously want to thank are too great sponsors that help us do this dormy workshop. Awesome head covers, artisanal, gotta use that word every week. Uh, great cub club covers, uh, putter covers, head covers, awesome stuff. Appreciate their support and par points. UH go make par awesome way to a different an

awesome way to keep score on the golf course. I know it's hard to break out of something that you're used to, but please go try it because it really is a very cool way to score. UH. Part points is great and a great supporter of us. And then uh lastly, uh new podcast that we've that fire Pit is doing. Need a fourth awesome guests with a famous putter, gentle fella h heat Well, worth your time, going to

be an awesome one great guest coming up. We just talked off air per se about upcoming guests for this show and it is very very cool. Um. So all of that being said, go to our YouTube page, subscribe, Like you know, all those annoying things that people ask you to do all the time and you don't listen to them, Please do that. Please go subscribe to our YouTube channel, subscribe to our podcast, uh like comment, do

all the things and then I'll stop saying that. The more you do that, the us I'll say it, and we can all just move on with our lives. So we put out a lot of great content podcasts and shows and all sorts of stuff. So go check that out at the fire Pit Collective YouTube channel. These podcasts are on there also, And without further ado, here's the four of us this week talking golf. I got in my head, can't get Jan nothing thing what I'm thinking about.

Can't get him now, Jen not to think well, I'm thinking about Hello and welcome back to their Fire Drill podcast. This is Alan Schipnuk. I am joined by Michael Bamberger and Ryan French as always, and we have our our colleague Matt Janella, who wanted to come on. He he was under some bridges battling various trolls and thought we'd have a a more thoughtful discussion about the topic of hand, which was the world rankings and whether or not the fire per Collective as a shill for live golf. Um,

but we will. We will start with the the events of the day. I mean, it's it's a goat factory out here. We had we started with Lionel Messy went in the World Cup and we're rolling the Tiger and Anika plane at the parents and so and you can't call the father son and fonicas there and uh, of course we got Tom Brady playing football layer today. It's quite a sports day. Um, this is not a soccer podcast. We don't have to go deep on that. But Tiger

and Charlie did not make a run. They're both a little banged up, but it was it was fun to see them out there. It was I loved watching VJ seeing bring it home with his son. I remember when his son cast was like early teenager. Now the dudes in his thirties and um, they finally won it for the first time after two decades, and it was it was just fun to watch VJ do his thing. But obviously all eyes were on Tiger and Charlie. Um what did you guys think of of how how that the

Woods Is performed. I think, first of all, that the PGA Tour, if they could have picked a worst storyline to happen, I'm not sure VJ and and his son winning. I mean they're like no, like they're having no fun. They're like in full grind mode, like typical things out there, Like VJ is full grind. I tweeted like they probably went to the range after they won and like pounded balls for a while, like it was full grind mode. It was like, you know, I mean, it was great

to see the Woods. I love the dailies, but if all storylines that could have happened, the things probably was not on the top of the PGA tours list. Uh. I don't agree, and Alan already knows why VJ is always sticking it to the man and anytime he wins, he's sticking it somewhere and I like it. Yeah. Does Does Vj's career money list include the settlement he earned in the PGA Tour for from the deer handler spray non you know, suspension non suspenseion it. I mean that

probably bumps them up a couple of nots. Is Matt, what was your take? I'm sort of with Michael, I I think, you know, is VJ? You know, my favorite player that I've ever met or spent time with or

worked with. You know, I've got everybody has their own and all what our opinions of like players, always comes down to like our own experiences, you know, right, And and I have one terrible story about VJ saying and how he treated a photographer Golf Digest, Steve's early who is is a lifetime committed member of the world of golf media and has tirelessly covered this game for more

than a better part of four decades. And VJ really treated him poorly on a Golf Digest cover shoot, and that always stuck with me, like I can't forgive him for it, Like I just can't, you know. And I've heard that VJ is actually a decent dude. If you're in the inner circle. It's a little bit like Tiger the way he treats the innerstrc If you're in your end,

if you're out, you're out. Um. You know, I just have that one story that always lives with me on how he treated a guy like Steve's earl who didn't deserve it, one of the best people ever. But that you gotta tell us what happened if you come on given. Oh, well it was golfed. I just cover shoot. I was the you know, the director of photography, so I'm coordinating with the agent on the front end. Hey, you know, here's here's where they're meeting, Here's where it's going to be.

It's it was practiced round of of a tour event. You know, say it was a Tuesday before an event, and he was going to give z Earlie some time and again a cover shoot, and Zuli's request to me to communicate to the agent was, hey, you know, given Vj's you know, specific color of his skin and how dark he is, and in trying to make the cover shoot look as good as it could be without the without adding any light because we're doing it outside. He

wanted to do it outside during the practice round. He the request was no, you know, black or white visors, no black or white shirt because that contrast was going to be really hard to make look good in a in a on a cover shoot. So it was like, hey,

can you just bring different color shirts or visors? Um, And at the end of the round where he was going to go change and get you know, he came out with a white shirt and a black visor and Steve was like, hey, hey man, any chance we can get I thought we communicated that there was this is gonna make it really hard with this light to try to get light. You know, No, this is what I'm wearing. Okay, well you know you do see that this. We're trying to make this as good as possible. This is what

I'm wearing, you know. But if there's any chance, okay, how about this, what if we what if we do the cover shoot without the visor and on the inside for the swing sequence that was generally tied to a cover shoot, you can wear the visor inside. He goes, Hey, man, I make more for this wearing this visor than you will in your entire career. I'm wearing the visor, you know, drop that line. I'm wearing the virus. This is what

I'm wearing, and that's what we're doing. And you know, at that point, you know, Steve's Steve's just trying to make it look you know, it had been cue again on the front Like that, to me is just being a dick right at that point, that's like using the

line do you know who I am? Like if you're dropping those kinds of lines, I'm I'm ware make I can make more for this than what And then it's just it's the whole thing that just in I think, you know, and we're just trying to make him look good, right, We're just trying everybody's got in theory the same goal,

which is to try to make him you know. So I don't know that just I'm not sure there's another player out there here where there's as big a gap between how the players feel about him and how the fans of media feel about him, because most of the players really like VJ, partly because he's like the the he was forever was the de facto swing coach on tour, Like if guys were struggling, they'd go talk to VJ.

He was so knowledgeable and he was generous with his time, and you'd see him working with different players and he'd be on the practice green sharing his little weird putting aids. And I think there's actually a lot of VJ loyalists. They liked that he stood up to Tiger, he stood up to Phil. You know, they famously went jawn to jaw in the champions locker room at the Master's VJ and Phil and there was no love loss between between VJ and Tiger, and I think players appreciate that. Well,

everyone else was retreating. You know. VJ wasn't afraid of Tiger, and he actually he got the better of him a few times during peak Tiger era. So VJ I think has a lot of respect among his peers. But yeah, fans have never warmed up to him. There's he was He's never been a favorite among the typing class. So it's just it's fascinating. I don't think VJs too bothered by any of that. As he said, he's he's got all the money in the world, and he's got the trophies and he just he does d G a f

which on some levels kind of high respect. I certainly respect him. I when I first joined Morning Drive, now

ten years ago. It was right around the time of the dear Antler spray incident, and I was I was kind of bewildered by the idea that a guy of VJ stature and all that, you know, and where where where they were with the game would put something like dear antler spray under his tongue without running it by a few people, just to make sure that they that the contents of it weren't going to come up as you know, something that that the tour was uh, you know,

banned as a as a substance. You know, it was like, really, we're gonna go with deer antler spray and just like you know, just without without running it by a few people. I mean, I kind of like poked at him for that, and I don't think you appreciated. But you know, I've had a couple, know, I've crossed paths with them from time to time. Certainly the Pure Insurance where the Champions Tour. I love that event, and you know, he's he's been

nice to me. But I that that story about how how he treated Steve and what he said to Steve, and as a director of tire and in the camp of photographers and knowing how selfless and behind the scenes they are and what they go through to carry those that equipment and get into position and try to make the players look good and shoots like that. It's like that just seemed unnecessary and dick ish to me. Right well. The opposite of that is in the early s I days,

photographers told Arnold Palmer, hey, wear a red sweater. It looks great on the cover. And already showed up in a red sweater. You know, yeah, you got it. It showed be yellows, reds, you know, you know, contrast colors. It's like the Queen always wears those bright colors. So you could spart in a crowd. It's kind of the same principal plays. What are you gonna say a minute ago, Michael, No, it's gonna ask gran if you ever actually used dear antlers? Yeah? Always.

He may be our only hunter. I don't see ships that for me doing a lot of hunting. Matt, I don't know about I mean it is there is it basically a yurine what I don't even know. I don't know if people want to say there there was a there was a g n C right near the right near the entrance to that to that stadium course whatever they called TPC sawgrass and she's you know, back in the day with BJ was just getting bigger and stronger

and hidden, you know, literally five your balls a day. Uh. He would just go there and point at stuff, and you know, they would take it down off their shelves and he'd go out there with their shopping cart. And so I think he was to your question, I think he was pretty indiscriminate. I did have a funny thing where I was at a bookstore in Augusta, Georgia, the

week of the Masters. It is the Barnes and Noble there, I think off of Bobby Jones Expressway actually, and VJ was wandering around and so I was like, oh cool. So I kind of like low key stock to him to see what he was gonna buy, soph to be some erotica or something. But he went right to the sports section and he was flipping through the the golf books and he wanted he wanted up buying like three books. Sadly it wasn't mine or yours, Michael, but it was.

It was interesting, like he really looked at the books with some care, and he he read the back flaps and um and uh I think I think it was a Hogan biography if I remember correctly, and it was a kind of a coffee table book about like the great holes of golf, and I just thought it was kind of cool, like Michael's gust is a little boring. During Master's week there he was no just so happened.

So yeah, So when I caddied on the European Tour nine one, he played a lot of practice for for golf dam Peter Turman and VJ played a lot of rounds of golf with Peter practice rounds and tournament rounds. So I got to know VJ then, and you know, to the point we're all making. He's always been quote nice to me, except for when he has treated me like absolute dirt. So that's happened too. But anyway, uh well, we maybe overdo it on VJ. But I think it's

astounding how good his swing was today. I've seen him swing poorly in the past three years, like it didn't have the speed that it had now in it. But he looks strong, I mean, looks the same really and supple. I mean such a long swing. I mean, it's just it's one of my favorite swings ever. And um, it's funny, we'll probably all have like certain swings burned into our

brains that we we got to watch up close. One of the most majestic golf swings I've ever seen was at Whistling Straights when when Singing won that p G A and it was in the playoffs, they went to the seventeenth hole, that long part of three and um, he was just kind of the left side t box.

I was on this little little hill above it. He's just framed by the lake and he hit it was just the most beautiful swinging I've ever seen, and he just held the finish for song and I don't know where that ball is going, but that's the best golf swing I've ever seen in my entire life. And of course he get it stiff, and that was kind of the key to the winning that playoff. I mean that PG championship, But like that is just into my memory. It was so majestic and it just like the ark

of the club. It looked like it traveled about twenty feet and the rhythm and the grace and the power, I mean, peaque VJ was absolutely incredible for someone without great without great putting. I just gonna say that for a mediocre putter to win nine times knock Tiger from number one when the p G a like UM and don't for that sixty three he dropped on Tiger in Boston to take over number one that year that we're playing together. That's one of the all time great head

to head round. So yeah, it was kind of fun to think about VG. I han't thought about him a long time, but BG Appreciation Podcast Apparently Matt was his guy. Darrett was not. Darren Clark Um Clark Jones was that his agent back then at the time. Yeah, you know, UM and and and spend a lot of you know, I had a lot of Sergio Garcia. Clark Jones was Sergio Garcia. Yeah, the UM did a lot of work with Clark at that time, and BJ was tricky. Uh, they're all they all have their own their own little

quirks about him. Um. I got a ton of stories because those photo shoots lent themselves to a to a lot of great anecdotal stuff. Um. But I will say just to go back to the event itself, and I know, Michael you're gonna you're gonna write about it, but boy, if if, if, if, this isn't the best But with Tiger as a father, isn't the best version of Tiger. I mean, clearly, he's he's an elite competitor and he you know two fifteen that will We're never going to

see that again. But but this vulnerability, the vulnerable Tiger that talks about what his kids meant to him in his recovery and what they said to him and how it mattered and and all that him sort of on the verge of emotions in a in an interview. I mean that is to me, you know, and again we all have our own incidents are anecdotes about Tiger himself. But it's just the best Tiger. It's the Tiger that for me as a dad. Now you know, I started early with Tiger as a as a photo editor a

Sports Illustrated I was on shoots with him. He was really socially awkward. He was he was stiff as rigid. You know, his jokes only were funny to the people. You know that that sort of we're in his paid or on salary. Uh. There was a lot of awkwardness about him. But boy, this this version of him when he's willing to sort of have these open conversations about being a father and watching him interact with his son, not unlike what we watched when Earl interacted with a

young Tiger. It's just very That's the most compelling aspect of where we're at with Tiger by far from me, and uh, and I like seeing it in other fathers and sons or I even like you know, Nelly to me, is is um is incredible and and uh, you know, and worth all the the hype and the attention as it relates to her swing and her her her conviction and personality and competitive nature. I can't wait to see

where she goes. But anyway, just the mash up of all of that this week was really really cool stuff. I said it a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about Tigers. You know, I like Tiger more after the scandal, if that makes sense, because I think he's grown as a person, and this week kind of sums that up, like he was a flawed human, still a flawed human, and but has grown and only his kids and his girlfriend and people around him will be the judge of of what kind of person he is.

And it seems from the outside that he's a great father and uh and I think that's at the end of the day all that matters. Quick note on the apparent child. I know this will never happen be cause Charlie would will grow up and Tiger and Charlie will play forever. But it should be either you have to play with your father or you have to play with a kid who's under fifteen. Right, Like, I don't know, I don't know what VJ and his former pro son. Is that a great of a story, you know what

I mean? The guy used to play on the European Tour, So I don't know, there should just be an age woman on the kid part of it. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But like like you said, Matt, I mean, tire hit a couple of electric shots during the first round, like that that long pitch off the pin straw that

was that was so vintage. But um, the most memorable thing I think he did across the competition was they were the post round press conferences and seeing seeing that softer side and seeing that chemistry and he was kind of we just started to hear Charlie's voice, right, like you know this is they've kind of slowly been unveiling him to the world, and so it's fun to hear Charlie talked about his dad and um it really, I would say for all the Nike ads and all the

Buick ads, you name it, this has been the single best brand building exerciser is for Tiger. Not not to be cynical about it, but I mean, because it's clearly comes from the heart, but to see a softer side of Tiger and that we can all relate to that, you know what. You know, I watched my daughter play basketball. My heart's like just bursting, and you know, we all have competed alongside um kids or parents or whatever it is, so to imagine how special that feels for them. It's

really it's cool that Tiger lets it out. He's not trying to hide it, he's not trying to he's not trying to make it anything other than what it is, which is a really special part of his life in his career. And I think other than maybe the Masters and the Open, I think this is probably the most meaningful week of the year for Tiger and that's cool. The other thing is it's also it's another feather in

the cap of the game. Of golf, and Jordan's made that comment about how in the locker room you've got these kids in these these these grizzled legends, you know, in the same lot headitive locker room. But having played in the car golf's father's son at Waterville for years now and then the father daughter as well, and watching you know, these titans of industry. You know, whether it's Dermot Desmond or j P. McManus, or there's been Dan Marino or Wayne Gretzky or all these guys. You know, uh,

Jeff Yang has played. There's so many people who have showed up in Waterville and competed in this event um from all different sort of walks of life. And that the game is that great equalizer that sort of levels the the the ego playing field out a bit. And you watch fathers who aren't as good as their sons or as their good as their daughters, and you watch them it's just it's like it's just the best version now.

It just brings out the best in people. I think it's when you start mixing generational stuff up around this competitive landscape, it tends to I don't know, it just this is a good reason why we look forward to this event. It's why we look forward two events that involve either our fathers or our sons or daughters, or

we watch you know. Yeah, I don't know. Just there's something about that and the game that no other sport really is able to accomplish, and so that in itself also deserves to be noted in my opinion, it's well said. And and just a quick note on on Tiger's other child is is Uh, everyone knows he's got an older daughter, Sam, and she was I think she's shy by nature. If you know, we've all seen around a little bit. Uh, you know that the son Charlie is kind of a

him and outgoing and and that's delightful. But she's just a different personality. But at the Hall of Fame induction where she introduced to her father, she was so poised and so intelligent and funny and insightful and um, and it's neat. I don't think any of us would ever want to trade places with Tiger Woods. I mean, we're all, I know, we all take being fathers very seriously ourselves.

Ryan's Tiger's age and has, like Tiger, a son and a daughter and uh, you know, we have the advantage of raising our children and anonymity, and uh it's a much much much better way to grow up. Uh. Tigraph of course doesn't have that, and those kids won't have that, So there are challenges. We can never really understand it. But to see and we just see little glimpses, but to see glimpses of these kids that seem to be very well adjusted, happy, intelligent, caring kids, it really is

a great tribute to Tigers. I think of Tiger. I think of Tiger as a I like to think that I have a lot of empathy for Tiger and in my mind and I wouldn't say this of Jack or Arnold and very as others. I think is that a

very very trying, difficult life. So I think it speaks very well for for Tire and definitely for Ellen as well to see these kids, uh coming out when they do make these public appearances um as as they do, and I think even deserves some credit to right because these kids are obviously got they've got some really good balance. From from where we sit and what we see, they've got some pretty nice good uh you know, head on their shoulders, so to speak. It seems to me, they

seem pretty well grounded and rounded. You know, we'll we'll see how it all evolves. But boy, I mean that that to me, considering what Tiger has been going through and has dealt with, and Tiger being Tiger, for these kids to be who they are in this these situations and with microphones in front of their faces, or leading them the large of their father into the World Golf Hall of Fame, it's pretty It's pretty impressive, and I think she deserves a big chunk of credit for that too.

I also think that the fascination with Charlie needs to like tone down a bit as a general media Like, I mean a Brennan breath said at best, like the PGA tour took a picture of his divid patterns and and Brennan's tweet underneath of it was like it just said, for fox sake, you know, is divid patterns. And it's like, I mean, it's it's like, again, he's never going to be his father. It's impossible, Like, just let the kid live.

I get the interest, I understand it, and I'm all for it for a week at a time, but let's just chill. I mean, the kid is thirteen and he's like the hundred and fiftieth best player in Florida or something like. He's a very good player. He's got a great swing. But just I don't think we need to take pictures of his divid pattern. Okay, like, just take a breath. There's a there's a fine line between Stocking and thirteen year old and in wrist in Tiger Woods

as a kid, Like, let's find that. Totally agree, that's well said. I mean, I was. I was explaining the interest in Charlie justsone who's not really a golf fan, and she said, isn't that like a lot of pressure? Why is he even doing that to a sudden to make him play in this event? And I said, well, you could try, and if your tiger, you can try

and give your kids a normal childhood. But it's impossible anyway, and especially if one of them is into golf, Like like, there's no scenario where Charlie Woods can have a normal childhood. It's just not in the realm of of of human existence.

So I think it makes sense they're kind of slowly introducing him to performing and and you know, obviously Tigers do interviews of this favorite people like Sanzy and it's still a pretty controlled environment, and it's kind of this this year by year evolution, and I don't think you can it just if Charlie wants to play golf, and clearly he does. I mean, unfortunately, his last name is

Woods and people are going to pay attention. So I think they're doing a pretty nice job of bringing him along slowly, and it doesn't seem like he's out there grinding on them the big time junior golf circuit and he just kind of does this thing, and um, I think it's commendable. There's there's no right or wrong way to do it, but I appreciate the restraints, you know, like I'm sure he Charlie could have already committed to Stanford by now if they wanted to make that announcement.

You know, there's but they're just they're keeping things low key, and I think that's probably the right path forward. Yeah. I don't think it's Tiger's fault. I think it's media. I mean, again, most of it is the PGA Tour. And again, I they're just as a fine line. I'm I'm I understand he's your best player. I understand you get to promote him, But there's just a line the kids thirteen years old, like, let's just let's just chill

out here for a minute. So, Matt, the reason we wanted to have you on, especially this week, and we are I think as as this Fire Drill podcast evolves, will have more and more of our our colleagues pop on, just keep things fresh and offer some different perspectives. But

which is always a great thing. But um, you put out a tweet about the world ranking, you know, on the occasion of Dustin Johnson falling out the top forty in which was obviously a joke because there's not It's not thirty nine players on the planet better than Dustin, um, no matter how you slice it. But um, it created a lot of engagement, a lot of conversation. Why don't you recap your stance on the world ranking and then

how things escalated from there. Well, it was just that I just you know, I tend to shoot first and then ask questions later. But you know, I saw a tweet out Dustin Johnson fell out of the top fourty according to the official World Golf Rankings, and it was like, um, well this just the optics of this just doesn't make any sense. You know, I Dustin Johnson is Dustin Johnson. I played with him at a dare manner. He is

definitely better than then party players roaming the planet. And if they were official, if there's such a thing as the official World Golf Ranking and it's not, you know, and he's not in the top forty, there may be something. There may be a flaw on the system. And it was literally like, I doesn't this doesn't make any sense

to me. And then you know, if you do some deep dive into the official, the official World Golf Ranking and you see who's on the board, and you see the criteria and you see that it you know, sort of got changed as of August that you know, continues to make it more difficult for you know, one could argue not just the live tour, but other tours to try to get points. The system may need, may need another overhaul. And you know, I listened to the Fried

Eggs podcast. Garrett Morrison had a statistician Joe Lamanna, but even the way he pronounces his name on who was tremendous he was. It was a great podcast, um and it was very informative, and you know, I listened to it after I made it comes because a lot of people, uh, you know, escalated because you know, people getting personal and then accusing us of being shills for Live. Like I I that's easy to dismiss because we're obviously not that we are not. We are not pro We're not pro Live,

and we're not pro tour. We're just pro truth and sensibility. That's the way I like to look at who we are. Our collection of perspectives offers just that, a collection of perspectives based on who we are, our sensibilities and are you know, sort of what we want for a game that we all love. We that that that's that's also at the core of who we are as a company is a is a collection of people who generally love

this game of golf for wide variety of reasons. From the professional standpoint, to me, if you're going to have something called the Official World Golf Ranking and it's not ranking the world of competitive golf, then there's a problem with it. Now you can say is Live competitive? And now I think there's issues with there's there's These are two separate conversations. What is Live and what is their purpose? What is the Official World Golf Ranking and what is

its purpose? What is the PGA Tour and what what role does the tour have in controlling all of this? And then then then there's extensions to that that I have issue with, and the tours control over media and the narrative around the sport, the lack of transparency around the game. We don't find out what why people get fined or or or suspended. You know, all of that,

there's there's a lot to unpack. And so as it released the official World Golf Ranking, I think you know and live and whether or not you know, I think both both need to move in order to make this a system that works for the greater good of the

game and competitive golf. Uh. And that's just what I believe and that you know, that's it's you know, it is complicated, and it's not easy to answer or to come up with the scenario that accounts for all of this, But I think making you know, the criteria of having a cut seventy two holes for majority of events, having a way to peer, having field of seventy five or more, have an open qualifying process, you can go through each one of those and and and argue the merits of

each one of those as it relates to the Official World Golfering but at the end of the day, out of the gates based on who's on the board and the fact that it calls itself o w g R Official World Golf Ranking, and you've got a bunch of really good players who are who are falling down that ranking system because they're not playing in an event that Matt's Matt's Dow's criteria. I think there there's there's issues to take with a lot of it and all of it and on both sides. Yeah, well, I mean that's

a good overview. I mean, I think the strong reactions to your tweet, it's just part of a larger issue in modern life and especially social media, Like there's you have to pick a side, you have to pick a side immediately, and you have to defend it to the death no matter what. And um so it's like when live has been so polarizing, I think all of us are larger. We are trying to play it down the

middle where we you know, I've said this before. I don't know if on this podcast or elsewhere, but my idea of balance is to be critical of both sides, and I think I've done that of the tour and of live. I've also celebrated there, uh their breakthroughs and and they're they're good ideas, but um, it's just like if if, if you don't, if you don't stake out a very black and white position, it confuses people, I think.

And so the fact that that we're trying to see the nuance and were trying to be balanced, um and almost like upsets folks because they just they want to know which campion are you on my side or the other side? It's us versus them, And that doesn't leave a lot of room for for subtlety and for discussions.

So that that was just the latest example, I think the very strong reaction to your tweet and and the accusations that you know, we're working for a live which is obviously ridiculous for those who bother to listen to podcasts and read the stories and don't just live in the twitter sphere. But I'd love to hear Ryan's take two.

I mean, and and I know I've heard bits and pieces of it, but as it relates to the other two and and the other thing is is I generally and in the corner of the little guy, the dreamers and that's you know that that's another podcast I'm working on. That's in defense of a tweet I sent out or I was on a podcast and it got stripped out, and I'm gonna do a club pro podcast and and

it's and you know, I'm dropping that next week. But I wanted to hear Ryan's perspective on all of this as a really official World Golf ranking and and and the trickle down effect of what the new criterias is going to have on other tours beyond Live. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of guys, you know, a live I think it's pretty obvious eventually needs to get it, whether they have to adjust or meet in the middle, I mean it. We talked the three of us talked

at on a couple of weeks ago. It's like, if if camp Smith falls down, the Dustin is a great example, but camp Smith nowadays is even a better example. It's like he's gonna eventually fall down the rankings. Now he just wants so on a O W g R tour, But like if he falls down, then it just becomes a joke at some point, like you know, you're not better than if the if he falls down to seventh, the sixth ranked guy knows he's not better than the camp Smith and it becomes a joke as it's you know,

slowly becoming so they have to adjust. But as an overall thing, you know, I mean the guys on the Asian Tour, um guys on the European Tour, and you're seeing top guys like rom talking, uh, you know, talk about it. I mean Travis Smith one on the one on the Asian Tour and got I think four point four seven points or maybe it was Andy who won.

And it's like it's, you know, everyone thinks it's a joke at this point, or there's at least very big frustrations, right like these guys like Travis Smith has tried to make it here and you know hasn't got through Q school. Asian Tour is a place to play and if he plays well, he should be rewarded for it. And um, you know if the with the new changes to O W G r uh not giving as many points to these foreign tours, you know, it's it's tough and and and I think it hurts the world game in general

because maybe it was inflated over and the tour. But I mean Tom Kim is a great exam ample. Tom Kim became a known name because of O. W. Jerr. He got in the top hundred playing overseas and playing on the Korean Tour and playing on the Asian Tour and getting in the top hundred in the world, then eventually coming over here and now he's a huge part of what the PGA Tour is doing right now if he is facing the same points problems that the players are. Now,

do we ever hear of Tom Kim? You know, he would have never It's almost impossible to get in the top hunter playing the Asian Tour right now, so you know, and and these guys Michael and Allen have talked about it more. I mean like it was, it was brought up to it was made up basically. So is there just a better exploded all together and just find a better way, or as Michael has said, is it just get rid of it and figure out a way to let the majors just decide for themselves. What are the

parameters to get in the four Majors? I mean, all the rain kings are are created by humans, So whether it's the Sagaran rankings or it's data golf, or it's the World Rankings and the official World Rankings. Someone has to decide what's going to go into the the algorithm, and there's debates and there's public comments, and there's votes and there's meetings. Ultimately it comes down to humans making those decisions. And that's all three of those rankings are

are different. They they reach a snapshot of who's playing the best in any given moment, but they have their own biases and flaws and so, um, it's just because the ranking exists in one way, it doesn't mean it's the right way. It can always be tweaked and improved. In the history of the w g rs are always changing it, and so maybe they the pendulum swung too far and they do need to tweak it. So just

because it is doesn't mean it's the right way. People kind of be like, well, that's it's the ranking, that's what it is. Well, it's it's changeable, it's fixable, it's tweakable, and um, so you know what we're gonna say, Mike, as Alan and I and others have said many times, it was a mark getting ploy by a very clever man, Mark McCormick, who was the founder of IMG to get his international players into events in the first place. Dean

Beaman explained that to me the other day. So like we know why the American Constitution was written and it was sound, the reason why this thing started in the first place is not sound. And then add to Allan's point, uh with all you know, I don't know what the numbers are, but you know, it seems like there's two numbers, a dot, and then many decimal places after that. It makes it sound like it's scientific. As Alan just pointed out,

there's no science behind it. And just as you can't compare Walter Johnson and Bob Gibson, you can't compare a wide open golf course uh is somewhere in Asia with you know something that they're playing let's say Colonial with the rough up. It's folly. The whole thing is folly. And now Davis said half as a joke, but maybe half seriously, just get rid of it all together. It really does not serve her purpose. It's really just on

the basis alone, it's impossible. It is impossible to rank players playing all over the world in all sorts of different conditions under uh under with different quality of fields. It's an impossible task. It's a fool's errand and I don't really see how it's serving golf at all. And I think that the live PGA Tour event and if we're getting paid by Saudi rab and the Lift Tour, Matt's holding out checks from me. So if we got any checks from the Lift Tour, Matt, I'll send my address.

Because everyone says we're chills, but Ryan's eager to sell out. But no, yeah, I'm totally fine with selling out. I mean if they have Monday qualifies and they're like two million anyway, Uh, the the I mean the pettiness on

both sides of this fight. Obviously the Lift Tours. But if you're the PGA Tour and and you sit on that board of the o W g R Pelly and and and the PGA Tour and can't look at that without any who you're on, what side you're on, and know that you're a biased ranking system, then then we need someone else to to take care of the official rankings. Like you can't just sit down there and say hey, here's all the people and like they shouldn't get any Now what if they adjust, are you still gonna say

they're not gonna. They shouldn't get any because again, the pettiness makes me concerned about OW. It makes me concerned about the future of golf in general, but just pertaining the o w g R. If you if you sit on the board of the o w g R and look across at the field of the Live Tour and don't think that they should maybe they need to adjust. I'm not saying they don't need to adjust. If you look at that field and don't think there should be some way that they are included in the rankings, then

I don't know what to tell you. You're you're not looking at objectively. I don't like the Live Tour, I've said it many times, but they have a good feel and they probably deserve some world ranking points however that comes to be. And if you can't think that, then you're not thinking straight. Like if you're accusing me of being a live uh shill, you know you're being a PGA Tour shill or whatever she'll or you hate Live she'll because I don't like Live, I despise the political

I've despised the format, all that stuff. It still includes some of the best golfers in the world. There is no argument. You can't argue that. And so to say that they shouldn't get some based on that, on how

many holes they play in all that, it's ridiculous. Well to say they can't play on the PGA Tour and you can't get points, you can't like how many more like and we're on the board where I'm on the board, Jamon hands off the point, like how many layers of like dysfunction do you have to reveal before you're like, yeah, maybe this isn't probably the right system either, you know

what I mean. I do have I do have some reporting on this because I was speaking on the phone with a member of the o w g R board. You know, it's the it's the inner sanctum. They don't

want their name used publicly. But this person said that despite all the mud slinging and the name calling, there's actually a lot of communication between the institution of the o w g R and Live Golf, and things are happening, and um he he didn't think it was going to be resolved publicly by the time of the Masters, but

it sounds like shortly they're after. I think there's gonna be some there will be some changes whether and I get the feeling it's on both both from Live more from the O w g R and how they're gonna they're gonna deal with Live and that some sort of solution is being brokered. And then it sounds like the

conversations are productive. And you know, he said, the institution is succeeding in that w R has criteria that have comment periods, They have conversations with many tours around the world, and it's a there's give and take about what these tours can do to qualify what what And he said

it's no different. And so even though I don't think Live on Live once it publicly is that it's a closed shop and it's say they're aligned against us and they're screwing us over that, the reality is that there's a lot of communication going on and that OB Jr. Is trying to find a solution. Now this this was one, this is one member of the board. I didn't um, but I have no reason to doubt what he's telling me. And it gives a little context to this. So we'll

see how it plays out. But um, I don't think we're gonna get to do some you know what a year from now, I don't think we're still gonna be talking about this. There will have been some sort of meeting of the minds and and one step towards kind of reunifying a fractured professional game. And that that's a very big statement now, and because if they actually do go down that path, then that is the PGA Tour acknowledging that lived tour is legitimate. And that's been very

hard for them to say. And to Ryan's point about just how petty and crazy the whole thing is, No, this really didn't get much focused this year. But the idea that the RNA, which presents itself and its championship with a great deal of confidence, disinvited Greg Norman from its champions dinner. He is a former champions one of the thing twice and now we can't come to your dinner just because you don't like what he's doing politically, and he can't play in your you know, your four

whole exhibition. I mean that in itself showed such an intense level of pettiness that it's, uh, Bobby Jones will be spinning in his grave. So you know, to the question of you know, what's what's the Master's gonna do or what the what's the u s you're gonna do? If they want to be true to their actual convention conviction convictions, they have to invite anybody who qualifies. They can't possibly even think about blocking somebody because of their

association with Live Tour. It's not like they're Unhel Cabrera in jail. They've just decided to play professional golf elsewhere for a startup. To use Hudson Swofford's term, which was kind of rich, but he's like, I just changed jobs. I went to a startup. Like, well, it's not it's not two guys in the in their garage. You know this. This is a well capitalized startup. But um yeah, I agree, And we've kicked this around before. There's no way Augusta

is not going to invite people are otherwise qualified. That's not going to happen. Dustin will be there, cam Smith will be there, Phil will be there. But where it does get interesting is if you look at the world rankings right now, there's there's a handful of Live guys who were in the mid forties of the o w g R Top fifty at the end of this year. In two weeks get into the masters and Taylor Gooch is one. He's in the lightning rod all year. Um Kevin Naw you know, one of the original kind of

lived defectors, Brian Coke Wrack. There's there's there's a there's a few guys, oh Harold Varner. They're hanging on by their fingernales that top fifty spot. And how the math works out in the next couple of weeks is gonna

be fascinating. And um, so I don't think that there obviously not headliners, but any of those guys are good enough to win a Master's if they're in the field potentially, and so if they if they slip out of the top fifty, um, that's gonna be a big talking point, and that that will put a little pressure on the Green Jackets because um they do have the ability to invite anybody they want beyond um that that top fifties. So we'll see how that plays out. That to me

is actually really interesting piece of it. The big guys are going to be there, they've were in their right. Fred really is not going to stand in the schoolhouse door and prevent them from from coming coming, you know, onto the property. That's just not how happening. But guys who you know, the Masters can always sold by the criteria. The criteria, we're not going to change it. Then there's gonna be some live casualties. And that's a little more interesting.

A byproduct of these guys who are in there early to mid forties who may have a hard time competing against these guys who are coming up in the early twenties and are kind of lost with trying to figure out a career path is a byproduct of the tour not moving that age from the Champions Tour from fifty down to whatever, maybe forty five or forty four, and giving guys this tweener path between either staying and competing on the tour or going to what would be a

Champions Tour and not evolving with sort of the the younger, the youth movement of the game. Again, this all it keeps layering and layering around, like of what else was Hendrik Stenson or Paul Casey or Lee West, what were these guys supposed to do? Just not play for five

years and just you know, pack it up. Like again, it's just the whole thing is fascinating to me, uh, you know, and and your world ranking the board of the world, ranking the rules of what you can and can't do, what is ranked or not ranked, raising the price of Q school in the middle of all of this craziness that gets you under the corn Farry Tour, which means to me, again, the richest kids make it

and not the best kids. And then what becomes the PGA Tour five years, ten years from now if we keep making it harder, more expensive to try to make it to the tour like it, you know, And this is why, this is why I think Ryan has has built such an incredible following based on his his focus on what we deemed dreamers, and why we're going to launch this series called The Grind, showcasing what it's like for these people out there on these you know, on

this adventurous journey to try to make it. It's it all feeds down into that, right like that. That's why I say I'm not pro live, I'm sort of anti tour and if and if this disruption needed to happen, in which we're able to, you know, pull back the cover on the control the tour has had on professional golf and the monopolistic control over professional golf that in itself is worth rooting for. To me, media rights, you know, the narratives, and I use that example all the time.

Rex Hoggard is a really good reporter. He's a quality guy. This has nothing to do with Rex Haggard, but on that court case in Northern California when it was lived players versus the PGA Tour and Rex Hagger's reporting live outside that courtroom wearing a PGA Tour logo on his shirt, That to me is a big part of the problem.

And he was doing that without irony. We were supposed to, as consumers of the news of the game on the golf channel, supposed to, uh, you know, take that in without irony or or you know, understanding of the situation. It's crazy to me. Did you guys happen to see this Bob Riley from PNC Bank get on with the Dan Hicks today. He was wearing a blue shirt with no logo on it. I'm like, that's shocker. You're supposed to be selling p NC. It was kind of delightful,

but I couldn't believe it. I personally love the CEO interview. It's one of my favorite parts Arey telecast. It's so crazy and it's so bad it's good, like I look forward to it and was good today. The first company that goes, you know, I'm not gonna put like if just say, hey, we're gonna skip the CEO interview to spare all of you, like it's gonna be the biggest

thing on Twitter ever. You know, like the CEO of PNC knows you're gonna be bored shitless if he comes here, so we're gonna skip that interview, and everybody's gonna go, I'm going I'm switching all my money to PNC right now. I think if the CEO came on and said, I know, the last thing you want to do is here from me, So I am going to take my microphone off, I'm

gonna get up off this set. I'm gonna go back where I belong, which is in the corporate hospitality tent with all of my top clients, and I'm gonna leave this to the professionals and they can communicate to you how good we are at what we do and how much money we're spending to support this tour. Did you hear oticas p NC shout out at the end, That shows you what a hard invitation this thing is to get She went directly into the camera with it. She

wasn't just like in passing. She was like turned to the camera and was like thank you to p n c. Oh, yeah, no, there was there was. You can probably get into this field anytime. It was one of the greats of all time. Not to take anyway from Anka, but she does have that burnhard, longer Germanic kind of quality. Of course she's a Swede. But when she talks about her heart doing this and the tears behind her glasses, but in that dead flat on away, it just actually makes me laugh.

It was the most emotional moment of my entire life. She said, this was really kids, like just laughing and giggling, and she's like it was. The kid was great. We had a lot of swag. Man, he's walking in Potts wearing Jordan's I mean, shout out to Will Sorenstam who made it fun for sure. Well, another reason there should be an agement on the PC. Okay, I support it. Yeah, when when you're a grandfather you shouldn't be able to

play with your child like you know. I mean, I don't know if cast has any kids or not, but it's getting it's getting. That's what I'm susy. Any board that has any input into the greater scheme of like the game of golf from a pressure professional standpoint, that doesn't have Ryan French on that board, I'm not for it anymore. I'm gonna draw a hard line on if I'm gonna be the guy, I'm gonna be the guy who tells Charlie Woods's he's peaked. I was like, unfortunately, Charlie,

if you've over, I would give you that. I would let you have that, make that help, make that like you should be on the board of the O W g R as a kind of a face and a and a and a and a supporter of all the other tours out there, making sure you know, doing what you know. Probably Keith Kelly tried to do, but probably I got voted, got got out voted on the board

by all the others. But I mean, I just think you gotta like, why don't we go around and collect a little bit of perspective from a variety of different entry points instead of just like the Boys Club that's in control of the the the upper echelon of golf, Like, how was there not players on the board of the o w g R like a little possible, but yeah, it would be nice if not every important decision in

golf was made in the grill room at seminole. Right, we need we need a few different perspective bit of you know, like to be a former player could get on the old w g R. Yeah, and a foremer player would make sense. It was like Nick Price going to the U s g A like that that made I like that, you know, Jason Gore before him. Certainly having having guys who've who have been between the ropes is valuable. I agree Ryan French for president. I put Ryan on the Empreme Court. I mean, the why stop

with golf? Like we need some Midwestern sensibilities from down home Alpina wisdom. And I like Mike Juan, by the way, I think Mike Wan. I have a so much hope and faith in Mike Juan and what he could potentially do now that he's where he's at at the U s g A. I mean, I'm hoping and praying that he's going to have you know, uh, Fred pur Paul like these like there is there are these glimmers of hope around and and I've and I've got a lot

of respect for Seth Wall there. You know, come on, guys, like, let's let's make sure that this game continues to evolve in ways that does make people feel a little uncomfortable. It's you know, the people who feel a little uncomfortable for where the game is going should feel a little uncomfortable. We should be comfortable in a variety of people feeling uncomfortable with the direction of the game. Otherwise it's not

going in the right direction. Mike Juan very, I mean, I agree, Matt great and uh I saw him in a very small setting. Uh at the symmetric what was the symetric now absent tour, uh tour championship. Ten ten women got their LPGA cards and their families. You know, there's fifty people in the in the room, and uh, he made a great speech and a ton of respect. He's like, you know, uh, there's gonna be veterans out there like Christy Kerr, who you know, are gonna squeeze

out of the range. And he's like, get your ass up there and push her to the side and tell her you get enough. Well, I mean, it was a very very cool speech and a ton of respect and went around and talk to all ten of the girls that had women that had gotten their card, and it was very much like, hey, you belong. You're part of this tour too, and you know I want to hear your voice as much as you know. I know he said what he was supposed to say, but it just

felt very sincere. I was mad respect for him, and I agree in the position that he is. I he seems to be outspoken and a like a born leader, so I hope he can can say the things that that some people don't want to hear. I love that. Well, this is a busy week at the fire Pit Collective, so just to give listeners a little rundown on what they can look forward to, UM, Michael and I and Jeff Ogilvie taped a sort of a preview podcast about the sand Belt Invitational, which is teeing off Sunday afternoon

in the US Monday morning in Melbourne. One of the really cool events in golf. I'll be writing about it every day for five Collective dot com. We have Benny West, Scott and Colton Nedler on the ground in Melbourne. They're gonna be doing all kinds of cool social cuts and and bring the tournament to life. When it's over, we're gonna get Jeff and hopefully the winner on for a pod. So, uh,

that's happening. We have needed fourth our new podcast which launched a month ago, hopefully the Olive and listening to that. We have a blockbuster guests for that drops every Wednesday. Michael and I are very excited about that. We um, it's already been taped, it's being edited, and it was.

It was a really lovely interesting conversation. So can I just say, guys, hate to interrupt them, like, you know, I am loving this podcast and you guys and the guests you've had on so far, Mike Mills, Michael Murphy, Brando Shamble, I mean everyone. I mean, it is as good as a golf podcast gets, in my opinion, you know, thoughtful, intel, alegent perspectives plus another fourth and the conversations that are happening and the stories that are being told, it's can't miss.

It's incredible. It's well, you're nice to say, mad and I I really do feel that way. And I think, uh, you know, for those who have not had a chance to hear Jeff, he is absolutely one of the most thoughtful intelligent, insightful people in all of golf. Those who covered Jeff when he was in his playing prime would have would have known that for a while. Um, but this is another chance to see just a very intelligent, thoughtful, analytical person at work. And you know, and uh Allen's

works uh literally speaks speaks for itself. So it's been it's been great. And then just a dovetail on on that one thought. You know, we've spent a lot of this time together and all of us who are interested in professional golf sort of consumed with the pj A Tour, US Live. It's certainly has been the biggest story of the year. But when you get to that need of fourth, it's just a welcome departure from all of that because we're not going down the road. It's not it's not

like we're not trying to or trying to. It's just that we get somebody on there and the conversation goes where it goes. Like we had read Brandle on the other day, and Brandall talked about the golf swing because that's sort of like his entry point to the game in the first place. Uh So it's kind of a nice break, Yes, and accurate and and part of it.

And you know, when I started at the Golf Channel, Kelly Tilman, rich Lerner and Brando Shambly identified themselves early on as people who were willing to give me time and serve as a mentor in terms of how to do TV because there's not a lot of you don't go through a training program of like, okay, this is how you do TV. They just like they put a microphone on you, you put on makeup and you're on TV.

You're supposed to you're supposed to sort of understand what you're supposed to do, where to look, and it gets very confusing, very fast. And it's a it's a it talking about a pressure cooker. It happens when that red light goes on. And Brandle and we I've gotten a no Brandle, you know, outside of work, our wives are

are very good friends. And it was so cool too, you know, show that side of him to more people than just the live from side of him in which, as he says, he gets paid to sort of explain the why and and he gets paid to, you know, to have an opinion on all of that. But there is this really really cool side of Brandle that. I think that's part of what got exposed in that podcast was just a general love for the game, for the literature around the game, the study of the swing and

the game. His his admiration and respect for you know, Jeff and his place in the game, and that went both ways, and his respect and appreciation for other journalists. I mean, it's just it's a it's a side of Brandle that a lot a lot of people get to see. And I hope people are able to either see or

listen to that because it's important. He he's an important piece of this puzzle that that makes up perspectives that talk about the game, and he is willing to say what he you know, feels, and it's it comes from well researched you know, analytics or or or thoughts, and I just think it's in that in itself is why this this podcast matters. And I can't wait for this week's guest because I know it is and it's it's he's one of my favorites. Yeah yeah, well thanks thanks

for all that. And um brand my my new favorite new phrase. I was texting back forth with Greg Norman was so surprised some people, but and he concluded one of his texts by saying, thanks for being a solid part of the gulf ecosystem. And it makes me laugh. It feels like a team of consultants came up with that. But Brandle is a solid part of the golf ecosystem, and it was it was fun to have um and

I think we can agree that. Imaginella, Ryan French, Michael Bamberger are very solid parts of the golf ecosystem that everyone will agree with that. I'm pretty positive. Quick quick nod to a to a member, a long time member the golf ecosystem, Rog the course whisper had his final lament this week. Oh yeah, he's been our lives, all our lives. Uh, I love him so anyway, Yeah, he represents a nonchalance that golf needs more of. Yes, I was gonna say, I don't know if Roger is a

great analyst or not. I just he just fun hang out with. Like I'm in my living room, you know, I was actually doing a little household project and it's just like I love to listen to Rod. It's just like it's like like talking on the phone with a buddy because it's a one way conversation. He's only talking to you, but there is it is. It's sad to see him go. I'm hopefully he'll find another another landing spot.

But um yeah, I think thanks for the tip of the cap because Roger's a very solid part of the Gulf ecosystem and maybe a future need a fourth. I mean, you guys need a fourth on a regular basis. You know, maybe Rog will make his way into the into the coming in smoking heaters like just Dart after dark. Yeah. Ryan's still trying to get you know, William Morris to sponsor need a fourth or fire drill or something. I don't think it could happen, Ryan, I'm sorry, I don't

think it's Lucky tried to jewel last week. Yeah, that Matt. What's that thing in San Francisco where they go in the tents and they go away for a while. It's like Limium Grove. I knew you'd come up with it, right down street from the Alistair McKenzie and Northwood golf Course. Okay, well, Roger goes to that one year. You telling me about you know some musician who was in the tent next to him, and it was Bob Weir from you know

the dead or something. My dad actually, as an in here for Bechtel Power, had a job of going in and working on the infrastructure of Bohemian Growth. He couldn't talk about it, you know, I've got to ask him about it, um my dad. Um, like Ryan's father has dementia, but still is able to recall, uh in great detail, some of the stories of some of the jobs he's worked on. Um. It's a short term memory that obviously is really really, really troubled. But he had he had

a very interesting time with the Bohemian Grove. And I actually got to go in one day with him as a young kid, and I can remember just the redwoods, and that's sort of the darkness that was created by the Redwoods and stories of guys just you know, you can kind of pee anywhere. It's like, you know, it's it's quite it's quite as quite a quite a a fraternity of stuff. God only knows what happens at the

Bohemian Grove. Well, another member of another attendee of Bohemian Grove is Michael Murphy A need a fourth podcast guests, So it all comes full circle. Um, all right, well, let's end this fire drill um shout out to Um, Roger Malpi and Charlie Woods and VJ Seeing and everyone in between for enlightning this conversation. We do these every stunt Oh, yes, Michael Ellen oh and yes, uh Ellen. Easy to get sidetracked. Um, So we do this every Sunday.

Hopefully you guys have cut onto that. It's it's an ongoing conversation that will never end, um hopefully, and uh we're back again next week. It's going to kind of be the end of the year. I think, Michael and Ryan, I think are we cooked up a plan to do kind of our low key year and review and talk about our favorite moments and the biggest stories, and that that should be a fun one as well. So we appreciate your loyalty and fidelity as listeners. There's a lot

of golf podcasts out there. Thanks for listening to ours. For Matt Ganella and Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. I'm Alan Schipnick. This was a fire drill podcast, and uh that's it. Thanks. I bet big and I played the Win, made a fortune, win my shop game. Man. I ran the table, never thought I could fall down. The winter time hit me like a cannon. The ball and now I can't shake this losing the streak. Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in

my head. Can't get him out, Trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head. I can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.