Fire Drill 055: Off the Rails

of things. We talked about Grant Wall. Alan talked to him before he went to the World Cup for about an hour, UM about a bunch of things, and they had worked together a long time, all three of them at Sports Illustrated and his place in the journalistic world and um, just how sad it all is, um. And then we talked about We went on a tangent about the movie straight out of Compton, and I'm not going to add anything to it except to just I promise it's towards the end. I promise it is worth the

time to stay. Alan and Michael went to the movie and that's all I'm gonna add because the details of it, of them going is just well worth the wait. Is almost nothing to do with golf, except that we tie it into Alan and Phil Mickelson, which I think was a great uh comparison. It really is uh in a very microcosmic uh look into what it is to be a journalist sending out a story that that you know is going to kind of disrupt the golf world. Um. Before we uh send it off, I want to do

a few things. Uh. First of all, our sponsors, power Points, don't make part download the app. Uh. It's a great way to keep scoring. Uh. It's awesome. You should try it. Once you try it, you'll be hooked. U power Points app, Android or Apple, Go get it. Um. And then dormy Workshop awesome club covers. I just have to say artisanal dial because I get tweets about using the words artisanal. Now, um, so I have to use an artisanal club covers. Putter

covers really awesome, go check them out. And then before we get into the pod, a couple of house cleaning cleaning things that we have to take out of need. A fourth is an awesome new podcast, Alan, Michael, Jeff Ogilvie, and a mystery guest every week UM sponsored by Echo. They have a great contest going on with Links Soul. Go to our YouTube page, comment on the last UM Need a Fourth and be entered in a chance to win two and fifty dollar gift card from Link Soul.

Brandon Chamberly was the last guest. It was very good, very different side of Brandle that a lot of people haven't seen. It's it's different than the personality you see on TV. It was very cool him and Jeff talking about the US Open, really really interesting. UM go there, check out our YouTube page. Lots of stuff besides this stuff I just mentioned, So subscribe there. Do that stuff. It helps us out. UM, there's Alpena stuff, there's uh,

there'll be Grind episodes on there. There's Journeys need a fourth podcast. This podcast is on there. Jake's giving me the like, you gotta cut this out, it's time to go. Uh, he's giving me the high sign. But please do all those things that helps support what we're doing at fire Pit. UM, thanks for listening. Without further ado, here's the three of us talking golf. Mostly I got Dot, he can't get Jan nothing thing. What I'm thinking about can't get them

out nothing. Think what I'm thinking about Christmas, Hanukah and Kwanza came early with Tiger Woods um playing in the the match. Uh, you know it was under the lights, it was on made for TV. What did you guys think of this spectacle? Did not know it was played until you just said it. This is the rigorous preparation that we like for this podcast. So great, right, it's amazing that it is amazing? Does he meant to play in the Father's Son Tournament? First? What's the order here

that's on deck? You know this coming week? Well, well, Charlie Woods, the biggest star in golf by my calculations, will make his annual appearance. Um, here's my take on it. Here's my I also did not know it was on in the morning, Like I knew it was coming up, but I didn't know it was yesterday. But I said to my wife as we were watching it, is like, would I make any sort of special plans, cancel anything to to like watch it? Of course not, but like, was it fine TV last night on a Saturday night

where there's no college football or anything? Yeah? It was fine. It was great. I mean it was it was fine. It wasn't it was, it was, it was. It was fun. I mean it was some septimes. What else am I gonna watch? Will? Fortunately? What time? What time did it come on for? We East Coast views seated up at seven? Michael, It was like an hour long pre pre damn and then an hour and obviously Tiger played pretty terrible. Um

and uh, it was. I mean it had moments. Charles Barkley is by far the best part of the match. It's everything j Barkley repartee a little forced, but undeniably funny in spots like he had one great lines like the next match is gonna be Charles versus a plate of cheese fries like that that was legit, laugh out loud and um so, I mean obviously Tiger was the focus, especially after he pulled out of the World Challenge, and

I thought it was weird. You know, he said he hadn't touched the club for two and a half weeks. I mean, we know that Tiger is a man of immense pride, and even though this has no meaning, he's still on very graphic public display. And I think it tells you how much he's fighting his body. If he didn't prepare at all. I mean, uh, and he was. His play was very scratchy, especially the first five or six holes, and then he kind of found it a little bit hit some shots. But um, that to me

is a red flag, you know. And this this ongoing question, like how much golf is Tiger? Would he gonna play? I mean, prime time national audience. He didn't. He didn't even he didn't even hit a small bucket. So did he say why he had not hit balls before? I'm sure, I mean, I'm just assuming it's the plantar fasciitists which knocked him out of the World Challenge, But no, he said Alan, he said, what knocked him out of the

uh the World Challenge is his inability to walk. I thought, yeah, well, I mean I think that might have been a little hyperbolic. What he what he said in the Hero World Challenge press conference, Like, um, because he was writing a cart last night, he presumably he could write a cart from his front door to his practice facility in his backyard. Like there's if if the foot really didn't cause him

any discomfort, why didn't hit some balls? And it doesn't It doesn't track as Tiger talking about his body and his injuries often is confounding and mysterious and contradictory. I think this is another example because like if if, if, if walking is the issue, you can certainly hit some some balls on the range without doing much walking. So I don't know that that that was. That was a little mysterious, And you know, I've said it, and maybe

you guys don't have the same feelings. Maybe you do. Uh, but but yesterday, like Tigers at least right now has become a ceremonial golfer, at least in the short term. Hopefully not in long term, but right now he has. And I don't know if I to it on this podcast or a different one, but like we used to go to the senior event near us when I was a kid, and my dad would always want to go watch Arnie right and Jack and they both were like well past their pride by that time, and I always

was like, what the hell is he doing? Like who wants to go watch you know, a guy shoot seventy six on a pretty relatively easy golf course. And now I get it, Like there was some like, yeah, I just like to watch Tiger play golf. I would, of course, I wish he would have played better. Uh, But I just like to see him out there. Obviously I wish he was better than who cares about yesterday, But just

in general, I hope he can teat up again. But I just think it makes me think of the fact that he was important too, that we were lucky to have him in our in the time that I grew up watching golf. I think that British Show Open was a big set back for him because I think he he prepared really hard for it, and I don't I mean, I swallowed the kool aid, drink the kool aid and

and believe the hype. I thought he'd go out there and shoot for good scores, and of course when he didn't, he just made you look at Tiger, you know, when that was over, it made you look at Tiger differently. To your comment, Ryan Andy North told me a great story about Arnold Palmer that I can't remember the year of the tournament, but Arnold was saying his in his sixties.

Now he's well beyond contending on the senior tour, but he was playing really well at the senior event, and um, I guess the second round, you know, the the penultimate round, he comes to the eighteenth hole island Green, shallow green. It's an automatic layup for everyone. You can't hold it

with anything more than about a nine iron. Arnie hits a good drive and he pulls out like his three wood, and the crowd murmurs and gets excited, and he like rips one of course, bounces over the green, drops one, hits like three in the water. And he was and as North told it, like Arnie was on the edge of contention. You know, if he makes a birdie there, he's like in tenth place or something, he's got a chance. I'd be huge for TV. And everyone's before idle do

he makes like a twelve or something. And afterwards off air because and North was commenting, he's like Arnie, what the funk man? And and Palmer goes. Those people came to see Arnold Palmer, and I gave them Arnold Palmer pretty great. He was like, like I pictured like clear Eastwood, you know, with a little sneer and the hat pulled though it I mean, it's ridiculous, but it's funny, but it's also it's insightful, Like there's just you know that

Arnie had a role to play, and he embraced it. Um. You know, Jack Nicholas was more ambivalent about being a quote unquote semonial golfer. You know, he said he'd never be one, but then he did. And he's still hitting the first tea at the Masters, like he's actually grown comfortable with that. That the question for Tiger is will he embrace that role and what is it going to

look like? Or does he have you know, so much pride and he still sticks to that I'm not gonna tee it up if I can't win kind of eat those like, what are we gonna see from Tiger and going forward? That that's a big question. Yeah, agreed. Uh, Yet yesterday, for the first time I felt like he was really a ceremonial golfer. I mean it was It wasn't good golf. He was obviously in a lot of discomfort. And I just hope it's the planner stuff and you can get back to I mean, we've talked about it

last week. It's just a couple of times, one more time in his career even just be around, even near so we can discuss whether it will ever happen again. As Nicholas says, never ever, ever, ever, ever count out this Tiger Woods. But I think he must know on some level that when he won that Masters in two thousand nineteen, it was a gift. He played okay really uh and he squeezed one out and there's not gonna

be another one. Now that's that's depressing but probably accurate. Um, and all right, that that was We kind of thought the two thousand nineteen Masters that was it, like that was the gift. But then you get greedy, like, well, if he did it, then you could do it again. And uh, you know, if he gets a firm, fast links course and he gets a good side of the draw and you can talk to off all kinds of stuff. But after smashing up his foot, I mean that it was.

And I thought you were gonna say after smashing up that car, I mean yeah, we're saying that. I yeah, that up the side of the road, and we've been down this road before. He's yeah, I mean, by his own admission, his life changed that day. Yeah. Well that was a morbidly funny moment in the match where because um, you know, Justin Thomas and George Shore wearing shorts, so it led to the inevitable talk about calf muscles. And tigers, like I got a good calf singular. It was pretty funny.

He went over George's peace and a few other people's head in the moment, but it was it was funny. Um, but yeah, that's the reality, you know. Uh, I mean, we never talks about his back anymore like that. That's what I thought was gonna back part of his body. Yeah, it's the one functional part of his body. Diffuse, FYI, how are you going to drive the golf ball anywhere with one good calf? He's driving it pretty well though.

His ball speed was like up there with those guys yesterday. Yeah, I know he's you know, he's got some he he's got some of his speed back. And he mentioned that in the Bahamas that he's gotten some speedback, and he you know, he's not gonna have the ball speed of Rory McElroy, but he was up there with speed and even you know, threatened JT a few times. Like he's so physically strong in the upper body that it's like he could just jerk the club down through the hitting

area with some speed. But um, you know, it's still it's not the most efficient or possibly repeatable action. But he's he's making it work. But anyway, yeah, who won the thing? It wasn't Tiger. Um, yeah, they It wasn't close. It wasn't close. The Tigers straight better ball for the twelve holds uh. One Club Challenge, Yeah, the one Club Challenge. They played one hole every and everyone got to choose which club and it was chaos. It was anarchy. It

was fun. Guys are balling crazy places, trying to bend it. Tiger, I think he played down the wrong fairway on purpose. I'm not even sure. I thought it was gonna be ridiculous, and then it turned out to be like really fun. I was like, it was chaos, it was it was totally Yeah, and so Michael, when they played, you couldn't if like so JT and Justin went first, and they get to choose their clubs and you couldn't choose the clubs that they chose, so like those clubs, you know,

everyone had to use a different club. Yeah, it sounds too gimmicky for me, but quick as side of four club tournament on the PGA Tour would be super cool. Oh yeah, well that's the whole point that, like Thomas made a really good part with his five would to win the whole and that was cool. Um so for a club hubs and an opportunity for Jones bag. Are they a sponsor of Irris Jones Jones Golf? Should be? But not yet. Well perhaps they will become one. I'm a user. Uh uh but Jones bag four clubs? Uh

what clubs are they gonna be? And really manufacturer shots for four straight days? That would be really cool to see. That would be cool. What would be what would be your four club? Well, you know I play one every year,

so now it's a very short course. But uh, driver six iron sandwich putter, because I can hood that six and turn into a for Yeah, I would go driver putter for sure, probably weds and then yeah, you gotta have like a I would go eight iron maybe maybe a But then then I was I was almost gonna say driver hybrid like seven iron putter, just because you can use a hybrid anything from one seventy to ten.

You know, if you're you're in the wrong trap, you're gonna have a hard time getting out with the seven earned. That's true, that's true. Unless you want to go you gotta have a wedge of some sort. I mean, I that's fun, not a fun conversation. Yeah. And by the way, and it would have been cool if Jay Monahan would have said, you know, we're gonna spice things up here. We're gonna have a program Event're not a program. We're gonna have a mixed team event. We're gonna have a

four club event. We're gonna have another kind of team event. Uh. You know, there was an opportunity there to do more than just bringing money. How about bringing bands. I know we've talked about this before, but really the starting point for this whole reconfiguration of what the PG door should be began with holding onto the players to making sure they get paid. But it should have been it should have begun with us, what's gonna make us watch? If

it begin with us watching, the money would come. That's too well, Uh has nothing to do with it. I have to know. Well, I mean, you weren't here, uh for the Michael lighting conversation. Michael's lighting is different every week and wonderful this week. I don't know what it is. It's like a because he's holding a flashlight or we're not sure. But second of all, where's the baseball, Michael? I need a story on the baseball that you're holding, well just the ball. I don't know have I told

this story on Uh. Michael and I have spent a lot of time together and we can uh we'll talk about it later of why, but lately on the phone in cars at hotels and uh, I'm driving with go to Hollow as well gold on Cold Hollow um or driving from Alpena to Cleveland, and I'm with like one of the greater running, greatest writers of our time, doing millions millions of like his like just he's interviewed, talked to,

knows everybody. And I say, Michael, what's the most uh, what's your what's the piece that you love the most? Just an article, not a book or anything. And I was like, Oh, this is gonna be about Obama or Trump or a million other people. And he says, uh, I once went and wrote an article about the Cincinnati Reds and they were like forty games out and I want to to to uh write about you know, what

professionalism meant and why they're still there. And I was like I'm sitting and I'm sitting on the edge of my seat and going like, oh, there's gonna be a guy who you know has cancer and he won the All Star Game and you know it's gonna be an amazing story. And I go, yeah, what happened? And he's like, no, that's the story. And I was like, literally, nothing happened. That's what happened. Nothing, And that was like and then I couldn't find it and Michael sent it to me.

It's a great article. It's just like of all the stories that he's written, books, the people he's met, it was just the last we were. We were in Cleveland that may have sponsor and you're nice, you're nice to remember even the conversation run all. Let's make a quick nod to our former he this is inadequate, but uh, al and I worked for years with a wonderful college named Grant Wall. Many of you would know that anybody who follows soccer would would know the name too. I

don't even know how to describe what he is. What Roger Angel was to baseball and what herb Wind was to golf, Grant Wall was too to soccer writing and uh, forty eight or nine he died in Cutter covering the World Cup. Just tragic loss for his family and great person. Yeah, Grant, I mean it's we came up together at s I. I mean I think we were hired the same year and say, yeah, you too, Michael, I mean you arrived

with right and um. But you know, Grant I were the same aids, and we kind of progressed more or less at the same time. And we were never super close, but it was always a He was a he was a writing nerd like I am. So we would talk about stories and talk about journalism and just a wonderful human being, just so kind and generous and tremendous talent. I mean he he did college basketball for five or seven years before he did soccer, and he was an

incredible college basketball writer. But his first love was with soccer. And that's that's you know, where he had had this international influence And yeah, it's I still can't believe it because right before he left for the World Cup, I talked him on the phone for at least forty five minutes. Yees this year you did a month ago? If that? Well, because Grant, you know, he spent the last three years he left s I, and he was he was really a pioneer of in some ways for in the sports

writing world. For substack. You know, he was one of the first kind of blue chips sports writers to go to substack, and he'd done extremely well growing that audience. And um so as as here's the fire but collective, as we've talked about different ways to reach readers, we've had conversations with substacks. So I wanted I wanted Grant's take on it, and of course turned into wide ranging conversation about the old days at s I and various

colleagues and what we're doing here at the collective. And he's very inquisitive, very thoughtful dude. So it was it was, I mean, were both like, oh, it's a busy day. I got maybe fifteen minutes and you know, it's just

we just kept going. It was. It was really fun and um so yeah, all of it is is so stunning, up to including the fact like he was tweeting just you know, minutes before he collapsed and and then that was an emotional day and I got on this text right with old s I folks and um and I was reading some of the coverage and then I was I was curious was happening on social media. I went to Instagram and there's Grants like Instagram story pops up you know, he had just been putting out videos and

and stuff. I mean just I think it said eight hours earlier and now he was gone. It was like so surreal, is like having a ghost in your phone and um, still trying to process the whole thing. Really yeah, I did not realize his wife was such trying to accomplished a medical doctor. Yeah, yeah, Dr Selene Grounder. So she um, she's been in an infectious disease expert for many years. And in fact, Grant did some great stories

with Bill Walton. And one time I was talking to Bill Walton because I was doing in u c l a usc basketball story and he was just happy to be in the arena and I was when a sports ahilster and he's like, oh, do you know Grant? I said, of course, no, Grant. He's like he's like Grants okay, but his wife's amazing, like you know, you know, she's

like changing the world. And he went on this whole you know Bill Walton esque riff and and so yeah in in Coe when when COVID happened, Um Selene she she became a contributor on CNN and was was incredibly

well spoken. She's on Biden's advisory counsel, like she she's become a very important voice in all of this, and and that was and Grant was so proud of her, and it was really cute to hear him talk about her because all three of us probably know, like we have public jobs, and people get jaw about what we do, and so whatever your significant other accomplishes in life, like we can all agree what Ryan's wife's work as a

nurse was far more important than what we do. And like I always say, my only job is people something to read while they're on the throne, like you gotta have some perspective. But yeah, I'm sure people are more excited about Ryan's job than about Mrs monday Ques contributions to society and so, but it was cute for Great because all you know, he'd always been disacclaimed writer and all of a sudden his wife is like famous, and instead of him being whatever competitive about it, he was

just so proud of her. And that was a sweet element to there their whole story. And of course it's it's part of the tragedy for they didn't you know, I say, how nice for you on a very quite kind of way, at least have a chance to have that one conversation so recently. Um, what what what? What was to deal with him leaving us? Ah, well, it was just you know, as as you know, Michael, when

we left, it was kind of similar timing. They were very much in a cost cutting mode and just it was like every year, lose ten percent of the of the staff kind of thing. And so, um, and so I read it. I don't know, you guys wouldn't know better than I obviously, but I read that he spoke out about s I cutting salaries during COVID and and was gone soon after that. So yeah, yeah, well so it got it's this is where we're getting deep in

the wheacher. But yeah, it actually turned it got messy because he wounded up suing Sports Ill Straight because some of their leadership had said some things about him in the press. And he won the settlement, so he actually came back and did a victory lap at s I, and did I think the deal was As part of the settlement, he wrote a few more long form pieces and so he Grant got kind of a curtain call at Sports Hill Straight and which was which was cool.

But um, and yeah, I mean he was a very passionate guy like he wore his hard on his sleeve and I'm sure you were charting to slave and he wore the gay Pride T shirt into the stadium there those who followed. Is what life near the end would know about that. Just an extremely principled, fine person and as as I would have known him. And Alan tell me if I have this wrong, Just a paragon of of of fitness, just slender. So this is an interesting

undercurrent to all of this. You know, Grant's brother went on on social media and and said, and so Grant had warned to the first game this it's a rainbow T shirt that a soccer ball, and and he got detained by security because we all know Cutter is not really an open society that's tolerant of other people's points of views and lifestyles and whatever and um. And then Granted also written extensively about the horrible conditions of the migrant workers who are used to build all the soccer

stadiums over there. And when his last post was was about that because I guess a worker died in his stadium. And so so Grant's brother Eric said, you know, he thought that they Granted had been murdered essentially, and it was not a natural causes, which I hope that's not true. That would be really dark. I mean, Grant hadn't hadn't had some health issues over there. He thought he had bronchitis or whatever. So I don't know about all that. But you know, I didn't go to the live event

in Saudi Arabia even though I wanted to. But various people in my life, including our calling Matt Janelle and others like felt strongly I shouldn't go because, um, you know, I've I've been in sort of the front lines of all this live stuff and the Michelson quotes and all of it, and I always felt like that's totally overblown.

But um, you know, there I talked to some international businessman types who have done a lot of work in Saudi Arabia, and my whole point was nothing Live Golf does want anything that happened to me that would make them look terrible. The MBS doesn't want that that he's the host of this thing. Like I'm I'm probably the

safest person in Saudi Arabia. But these guys who I spoke to have been over there a lot, said, well, there's actually these elements within the country they were working against MBS, and you know, they're always looking for good targets to create. You know, it's like this rogue element. You know, you're the state apparatus wants you to be okay, but you can't account for for you know, fanatics and others with agendas and so it was like low probability,

high high um outcomes. So I wound up not making the trip. There's other reasons to scheduling and everything else, but um, so that just gave me a little shudder. You know what, what what Grant's brother put out there publicly, if if if in some way there was any kind of foul play, because what he had typed, it's like we'll never know the truth. That will never know that. And um it's just like for me, it had some some resonance because I ultimately like to not to make

a trip over that part of the world. So anyway, ye know, was Walton a golfer aroun No he no, he he would actually we gotta get him. We gotta looking up with Michael Murphy like he I could. I could see Bill Walton getting into that. The whole essence of of you know, this the spiritual out of golf, which some believe in and and and embrace and others are are not so into, which is fine. But like they'd be fellow travelers for sure. And um but to my to my knowledge, I don't think he's ever touched

the club. Yeah he Uh remember John pappt with You would have known John Papaak? I'm sure Alan, Yeah, you maybe have gone by Timmy arrived. Yeah, four imagining editor Sports Illustrated. He was gone before I got there, But I didn't meet him that Um, Peter Carey's retirement some some function where a bunch of old sid folks got together. So I met him. I know of him. What what

what's your story? Well, he he used to tell a funny story about he was he was gonna ghost right Walton's memoir and uh and and he told John about how he grew up without a TV. And well, it's like why you grew up with that too? He once like, yeah, we had no two interhouse and then Papa neck is having a mealer or something with Walton's mother and uh and John sci like, so what's steal you guys didn't

have a TV growing up? By the way, Ryan French didn't have a TV growing up for a large number, long, long period of time, and Mrs Walton says, uh, is John still telling that story? Of course we had a TV. So then so then John was back to Walton says, your mom says you had a TV and and you know, to make a long story short, Walton's like, this is not gonna work out if you're actually gonna fact check me. Yeah, that's just for the record, I actually didn't have a TV,

and it's been fact checked with well one parent. I can't really fact check, but one parent has in fact fact checked the fact that the only I've tried to fact check it. You know, the dispute is whether it died. It definitely died during the Stanley Cup playoffs. The question is was it in the final or in the game pre stating the final. I'm sure Ryan, all the controvers will fact checking. Ryan sending you to his dad at this point, check out my dad and keep your pants on, dude.

That well, okay, so that's from a story that that was told before we were taping. But Ryan, you did write a beautiful, bitter sweet piece for fire Pit Collective dot com this week about your your father's ongoing battle with dementia, which is very heart wrenching and all of us can relate. But on that basis, let me just explain my joke without being too graphic. Dad whom I met, who's a great guy, and by the way, it looks

so fit, he's gonna go another thirty years. Uh if he doesn't want to move, He's come up with a very effective way of like back off, nobody's gonna get nobody's gonna move this guy away from where he wants to bed. Yeah. Yeah, my dad was having a bad day and uh, when he has a bad day, we often take him to my house just to like take the stress off my mother. And he's like, I don't want to go, and uh said, well we have to go, And he pulled down his pants, underwear and everything, and

it was highly effective. I mean it was a highly effective way to not move anywhere. So I mean, well done, dad. Yeah. For those who don't know, we'll we'll save this for another time. But Ryan and his dad had a tradition.

When Ryan was much younger, they would go as as many families going camping trips, they would go on caddy camping trips and Uh, they would pitch tent and caddy and low level events and and a lot of what Brian does today professionally writing about dreamers in the game and Monday qualifiers and the rest come from his experiences, uh with these caddy camping trips with his dad. But

let's say that for another time, if that's okay. Yeah. Well, and Ryan's written about that beautifully, which is also on our website. Um his origin story when the early days of the fire pit. Um, well, so I want to ask about this Ryan, since it's ostensibly as a golf podcast, we've gotten very far afield, which is fine. That's part of the charm of these these fire drills. But um, I missed it when it came out. But I just I have floating on PGA tour dot com. I'm not

sure why. And this announcement about the the expanded pathway the Japan Tour top three finishers are now going to be exempt onto the euro Tour, and then the top ten finishers on the euro Tour as we know, are going to be exempt on the PGA Tour. And so there is this they have formalized this, um, this new way to reach the PGA Tour. Do you think there's there's any any grinders in your orbit? Will be like, you know what, I'm gonna go play Japan. I'm gonna

finish top three. I'm gonna go play Europe. I'm gonna finish top ten, And that's the easiest way to get tour card. Like is that is that a viable route? Yeah? I mean, um more and more guys have gone to Japan Tour Q school even before this announcement. Um hm. So if you're a pro golfer in the grinder mode and you don't have status, math doesn't doesn't ever add up, or you would never be at a bundant qualifier right like it just doesn't. Like reality is you're probably not

going to get through. So yes percent, there will be players like the odds of you going to Japan, playing in a country you don't know very well, finishing top three, then going to Europe a country you don't know, but a hundred percent will be a ton of players that do it, and they'll that will be the carrot that put you know, makes them go like, oh Japan, I would have never gone before, but now I can get to the European Tour and so there I go, and I I always wonder is a lot of the guys

who go to Japan. Uh, A lot of Australians go there. Uh. Brian Watts is probably the most famous American that absolutely dominated in Japan for a long time. Uh. They didn't want to leave. So I would be really interesting to see what the three like. It's a relatively short schedule, you know, It's like, yeah, it's very good money. It's obviously a smaller country, so travel isn't difficult. Uh, you know, it's there's a lot of good things going for the Japan tour. A lot of guys who go there don't

want to leave. They were just very content playing twenty times a year in a very small country for good money and going home. The foreign the foreign players that go over there and that and that's it. So I remember um our colleague Tom Verducci at Sports Illustrade went over and did a Brian Watts feature. He was already in Japan for you know. Verducci of course is on the Mount Rushmore of baseball writers, and he was doing a baseball story. But it was like, hey, if you're there,

this is the early days of golf. Plus I think it was it could have been, but um, and so he did. He did this story on Brian Wats, who he had had tremendous success over there, and but I might take away and I haven't read the story now in a quarter century, but it seemed like a very kind of lonely life like he he did not integrate into the tour at all. He was playing golf and he's in his hotel room and didn't learn the language, didn't eat the food, was you know, subsisting on McDonald's

or whatever else you could get. And um, so that's an underrated aspect. Like you know, golf, golf talent travels. We know that. But there's plenty of guys who didn't feel comfortable in the US, whether it was saving by a stereos or on Hell Cabrera or you know many others, and they didn't play their best over here. And it flows both ways. Just because you're really talented American golfer.

Not only there's the cultural stuff. There's the golf courses are different over there, the grasses are different, like all of it. So I've done stats on Brian Watts because I think I've told Michael this story is one of my moments of like how good pro golfers are. I was in high school and Brian Watts was behind this tree at the Bwick Open and Flint and my dad

and I were standing behind him. Obviously no one knew who Brian Watts was, so there's no fans around and there's like a low hanging tree in front of him, and I was like, well, is he gonna hook it? Is he gonna slice it? And no, he just hit a stinger right under it and like ran it up, you know, on the front of the green. And I was like, oh, that's very you know, these guys are different breed. Okay, here's my set that I tweeted in

October two. Anytime I'm on the Japan Tour site reminds me of American Brian Watt's career there from nine to he had twelve wins, twelve runner ups and sixty three top tens in just a hundred and twenty four events. Tiger ask, yeah it is, and it was and he was. And he lost cent a playoff in a British Open. Yeah, yeah,

he made that. He made a great run. I'm guessing that's when Verguici wrote about could have been yeah, I have to look that up, but it was and that's where he came and when he came back here and he did okay here, I mean, never did anything great, but kept his card a few times for sure. You know. You know who else in that same vein Todd Hamilton played overseas for years. Uh yeah, I mean he was another one, John Garty. He U still love writing about

about Scott Dullop. I mean, but of course I would, and you would know better, Ryan. I mean, I'm sure the competition and the depth is has gotten um is, it has certainly become um more real and and and more cutthroat on on every tour. So of course it's gonna happen in Japan. But I do remember there was sort of these protectionists rules. It was hard in those days in the nineties to get on the Japan tour if you were not Japanese. How how much has it

opened up since? I mean not a ton. I think there are still rules in place that only X amount of foreign players can be in a field at a time. I'll have to confirm that. But for a long time there was only like X amount of players that that could be outside of Japan. So Um, yeah, I mean a lot of players don't get from from that standpoint. Chan Kim was an All American at at Arizona State, has won a bunch on the Japan Tour and got through Q School this year. He was like top hunter

player in the world. I think he had like a top twenty five and the p G A even last year. And uh have got as corn ferry stuff. So it's always it's always interesting to see like he's obviously does very well on the Japan tour. Will be interesting to see what he does on the corn Ferry tour. And I love smokers and chain Kim is a legendary smoker. That dude sucks down the vape pen. I mean sucks it down. Well, there's a like a communal aspect, like

the smokers, like they stick together. They're always looking for a freaking match or a lighter. It just seems like there's more of a hang. But so it's interesting. I have I have teenage kids, and um, you know, the vape pens are everywhere and I'm always lecturing them and um, one thing one thing I've picked up from them is they would never know in their age would ever smoke a cigarette. They're appalled by the idea of cigarettes, like they're dirty, they taste bad, your hair smells like the

vade pens are one thing which I don't support. I'd like to go on record with that. But the um like America's youth is not down for cigarettes. They're just like UM. So I guess that's progress, right, I mean, as I understand it, it's the it's the actual it's the smoking that causes the cancer. The v pens reduce that drastically, So maybe this is some sort of progress, But that one's getting hooked on the apens, I don't know.

I think if you, as Rory mclroy, what's the most significant development in his life, and let's say the past ten years, I'm sure he would cite his marriage and the birth of his his daughter, you know, first and second. But I would guess, I don't know this, but I would guess he would cite third as uh he would

cite as third his father's decision to quit smoking. His father was a barman, and you know, like a lot of bar people in all countries, but especially in uh In in Ireland and Northern Ireland, uh was was a heavy smoker and uh he looks great. Jerry McRoy. Uh, and I know, well, we've talked about Jerry and I've talked about a little bit about what improvement in his life. The other day I was laughed out of the room, and we're talking about to societal developments, you know, in

our lifetime. I once asked my father in law, what what what's the greatest invention of of your lifetime? He was he was witty in a dryway, and he said, uh, the automatic garage door opener. Great, great answer. But I would say, you know it's over any flight, Uh you know, now, well, yeah, I don't know if you guys remember this, but of course there used to be smoking sections and planes, and it was a joke because it's not like there was a partition. Smoke just moved all over the your clothes,

just especially at an overseas flight. You know, you're on the plane for eight hours, you just stank by the time you came off. So anyway, I say so, in the tradition of my my father in law and his overhead garaged opener, I sighted a smoke free plane travel and I was laughed out of the room. But okay, quickly, be I I like people are leaving Alan's house at this point, so maybe it's time to wrap up, but

uh quickly. Next week I will be playing On Friday, I will be playing Shadow Creek, the very exclusive and cool nice Shadow Creek. Uh and uh, thank you Mark Baldwin for getting a sponsorship that you now have to give your friends because you have credit and you can't use it all Ryan. Is it actually exclusive or is it more of the case of if you pay enough money at you know, one of the casinos, you can get on it. Yeah, probably that it's the latter, but

still cool. That'll be a cool experience. I've I've never played Shadow Creek. I mean, it's it's so man made. I mean it's I was there for Match one. Have you been on I've never been on the grounds. I've seen all the pot It's a good golf course. It's I mean, for me, that's a shocker to admit. Is But if you didn't know where you were and you

just saw the golfers, wow, this place is pretty good. Yeah. Um, well, you know, Arnold Palmer never won a major after he quit smoking, so um, I think we should just just for just for our friends in the in the industry, we should offer a little balance this conversation. I'm kidding, I kind of know what Ryan's talking about it because definitely one of the cool sites from one of Cronshaw's

wins at Augusta's. I think he's going down ten and and he's cutting the cigarette the cuff, yeah, like nobody can see him, I know, the cuff, and we see the smoke coming up out of your hand. I always wonder if anyone any golf forever like end of their career by singing their fingers trying to cut a cigarette, like it's so ridiculous. Of course, back by today they would the caddies would put the cigarette up to see which way the wind was buying. Yeah, there you go.

Yeah that's old. Yeah. Back to back to Tan Kim. He does the same thing. He holds his vapepen, you know, like this, and then takes it away and then this all I know about vpens is it produces a massive out of smoke blowing out, and it's like he just blows this humongous cloud out and you're like, hey, Chan, you might as well just like you don't have to hide the vape pen because it's kind of your cover's blown. After you does he do that? What tourists? Does you

do that? On any two? I I the first time I saw him, and I had heard about it, But the first time I saw him was at a Monday qualifier. Uh for the way, can you do can you? Can you smoke a vapen on aug in a PUGA tour event? Then? I mean he was I don't know, sorry, chance if you're getting suspended for them, I don't think smoke is the right verb. Michael. I think you could hit the vape pen. Yeah, thank that's what the kids say. That's what the kids say. I'm just I'm just trying to help.

If you're trying to light the vape pen the plastical mels, it'll be a mess. It's cartridges. It's cartridges. If you believe that. Yeah, sure, it's killing everyone. The fire Girl podcast sponsored by jewel Um. But as we all in our vapepen. But I think it's time to add this podcast. But speaking Ryan's family, here's some really good reading and I'm not It's called Notes from the North Country and the writer is Obi Eustace. Obi Eustace is Ryan's maternal grandfather.

I don't know. If I don't know if the camera will pick up on this and move it to your right. There there it is. There's yeah, oh my god, that's actually this. Obi Eustace is like, you know, thorough meets eb White. I mean it's really clean, tight, no profanity. Uh. The writing gene is the writing gene. You oh gotta add one thing. And then Ryan had an an aunt. His Obi Eustace is dodger and she could write her

bottom off if I might use that word. Um anyway, all right, well this has been a fire drill podcast like few others, but admittedly it was a slow weekend golf. Maybe we'll come back. Well next week we'll have the father son and more tire and Charlie and everything else to um to kick around. And I actually like the fathers son. Beyond that aspect, it's cool to see all these kids, you know, and how much it means them.

Like I was, I was talking to Stuart Sink and he's treating he's playing with his son and they're treating it like the fifth major man. It means a lot to them. I think it's really cute and um. So that that's a good one. But maybe we'll have we'll do something thematic for our The ensuing weeks will be the last fire drill of the year, but until then, the listeners are gonna have to go on this journey with us to the unexpected places this podcast goes. Yeah,

that was great. I mean, you know, I love derailments. I love deraimants, and this was full blown derailment. Outside of the first eight minutes, I don't think we talked about golf, and it's great and I love it. I love to listen to you guys, and uh, that was one.

I love this one last story before we go because Michael and I we both loved the movies and UM and we were at let's see we're in Milwaukee, so it was one of the PG championships at Whistling Straits and Straight out of Compton had just opened and I was like, we gotta go see this on the big screen. And we went and in downtown Milwaukee. It was an

amazing crowd. The energy was phenomenal. UM and we Uh, that's one of the more memorable visits to the cinema we've had, but there's there's been a bunch of them. I was really struck by how good the music was, and that's music that I had heard a lot, as people do, just you know, in an ambient kind of way in a car or whatever, and it never made

an impression on me. And in that setting, as you were saying, the energy of the audience, uh, and a lot of things going going on, the tenor of the times, but the music really made a powerful impact on me. I'm totally with you. You know. I know Ryan's got a thing going about virtual golf and is that is that the phrase, right, not virtual golf, but as I say, yeah, yeah, and you know, possibly qualifying for a corn ferry event for via virtual golfing whatever, there is nothing like experience

of seeing Tiger Woods in person. If anybody can, I would suggest they do it while they can, any any elite golfer to see what they do with the golf ball. Just like Ryan was talking about before about Brian Watts under over, how about through you know, see Li've golf if you can. And of course there's nothing like going to a movie there absolutely nothing. Okay, just on the side and Michael, as Michael would say, may if I may, Ellen, uh, if I may, uh, gentleman as a colleague, but mostly

as a fan. Can you just write the story of going to see Straight out of Compton, because obviously there's more to it, and there's a lot of layers, and I can I sense that there was a ton going on. So can you like just get together, get your memory race together and write like a quick, feel like two thousand words story on it, because it sounds amazing there was.

I will say this, like if you remember in the movie, I don't know if you've seen it, Ryan, I don't how many of our listeners have seen it, but of

course n w ay have. They have the song fu the police and they get letters from the FBI and UM and all this stuff, and they go to play a concert I believe it's in Philadelphia actually, Michael, and before the concert, um, there's all these old white police officers and their lecturing all all these dudes in the band, saying, if you know, if if you play that song, we're gonna arrest you. And it's very sort of in some

ways the climactic moment of the movie. So it's mid concert and and dre and Easier looking at each other and they're just looking at each other like they're just looking at like should we and just at the moment like builds and build should we? Should we? I don't know? Should we? And then and they just launch into the song and I find that extremely inspiring and it probably informs my own you know, yeah, I mean I again, like I want to know everything, like to Jewish gentlemen

walking into a straight out accountant. I mean, it was a dometown of Milwaukee. I need to know everything about it. And we could do a podcast on just that, just that. No, but I think about that little moment, and of course it's stylized and who knows if it actually happened in reality, but that moment the movie, like, you know, because you get to these forks on the road as writers, and even like the Michelson excerpt from my book that like touched off all kinds of stuff because you know, we're

a startup, we were not a giant operation. I had to press the published button on that story and I literally hovered the cursor over that for a minute, not a minute, ten seconds, and I was like, I, you know, I didn't know it was gonna get as crazy as it got, but I knew as soon as that story went live that things were gonna start happening. And I was like, fuck, boom, no question, and it was like like it was that in a micro caused him like it was that moment. So, um, I think about that

that movie that's seen a lot. So it's really neat. Okay, maybe it wasn't. You're going to change yeah, yeah, okay, Well we've tried to end this podcast like seven times. I think we should actually end it. The listeners are gonna learn to dread that phrase. They're probably sitting in a parking lot somewhere. They have something to do, but

they're trying to get in the podcast, if I know. Anyway, especially if they have that thing like I have, Like if there's a good song on you get to your destination, you can't. You cannot leave the car until the song. I had it just last night. You can't leave the car until the song is completed. So if they're listening to the pod and they like it in the car, you can't. Of course, of these days, people just go from one device to another, so it's not so difficult.

I guess I'm dating myself. But anyway, that's to thank you for sharing that, Alan, that was very interesting. This is Alan Schipnik. That was Michael Bamber and Ryan f This was a fire drill. We do them every Sunday. Thank you for listening. We do appreciate your your fidelity, and your indulgence. We will be back at it next week. We have the father's son and various other things to

talk about, so until then, thanks for listening. A bit Big played to win, made a fortune within my ship game, and I run the table, never thought I could fall. Then the winter time hit me like a cannon ball, and now I can't shake this losing the stream. Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in my head. Can't get trying not to think what I'm thinking about about in my head, can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about o