Fire Drill 054: Tiger Looms Large, Even in Absentia

thank you to them for their great support. This weekend the Fire Drill, we talked about UH the Hero. We talked about Casey Martin and whether Tiger would ever take a cart, and we talked about UH Adrian Morok and

we talked a lot about Polish golf. We talked about how many players are ranked, whether he's on the team, what he's gonna change, is he gonna change the country, and then UH we went from laughing about that into a very deep conversation about Tiger and his but what he's been through in his life and what it means to all of us, and what he means to the game,

and what his scandals. UH meant and some of it is good on the outcome of what it meant to me, and uh, Michael and Alan get very deep about whether that should ever have been in the media. Uh, it's it is a really good conversation. I did a lot of listening, Uh as much as I can. Sometimes I interrupt and talk about what I want to talk about. But um, it was really good. Never know where it's gonna go. We talked a long time about Tiger and a lot of the things that he's been through. So

it was super awesome. That's what I love about this podcast is that you never know where it's gonna go. We don't do any preparation outside of a few notes to each other, and uh it went in direct direction that we never thought it would go. So that's it. Uh, it's great. It's awesome. That's why I love this podcast. And here's the three of us talking golf. I got my head. Can't get Jan nothing, what I'm thinking about. I can't get him now nothing think what I'm thinking about. Gentlemen.

It's Uh. It was gonna be a big week. We were all excited to watch Tiger Woods played golf for the first time in ages. He had a w D from the World Challenge, so we didn't get to watch the goat in action, but we we we heard him at various press conferences and he popped up on the telecast and he was pressing flash and you know, being the consummate host. But um, you know, Michael, what do we what do we make of the state of Tiger

Woods this minute? I don't think we're going to see this guy play a lot of golf in the future. I say with sadness, because I know it's very important to a lot of people, myself included, very important to uh to Tiger Uh. But just to read his body language, to read his body while he's while he's walking, uh, and what he actually says, Uh, if you can't walk seventy two holes, how are you going to play tournament golf?

And how does it get better from here? Uh? So sadly, if he could play two or three majors this year, it's a lot. And then the really big question becomes, well, what does he do with the rest of his life to make it meaningful? Yeah? That's deep. I mean Ryder Cup, Captaincy's, President's Cup, Captaincy's you know, hosting more tournaments being Charlie's caddy. Uh, he'll have a role in golf, but it's not the one as you say that we we would we would like.

I mean, let's just talk about the cart situation, because I mean I kind of of course it was vintage Tiger, you know, a little woofing in the president SI. I can hit any shot you want, I just can't walk. I mean, why not just take a cart? John Daily does, Casey Martin did? It's that there's precedent for it. Why why is he being so stubborn on this point? Yeah, I don't get it. I was super bummed. I really like Teller. I'm a huge Tiger fan, but the Casey

Martin thing is a real bummer. Um. I mean, Casey Martin just had his leg amputed, and the fact that he voted against that. It's just it's a super drag man, it really is. I get why he doesn't want to take it, and I understand it, no problem. Uh, but I guess it's two separate issues to me on is if Tiger doesn't want to take it, I get it. That's his pride. He's very prideful guy. And you know

it's not a disease or or something like that. I just really think that Casey Martin being in that conversation is just not part of what's happening here. Like Casey Martin doesn't have a leg like the guy legit. Yeah, he was born with his degenerative condition, and Tiger's wounds are self afflicted. It it's definitely a different scenario. But you could say John Daly's, you know, his lifestyle choice is probably led to him not being able to walk.

And I mean, I guess the question it's the philosophical thing. I mean, a golf tournament is just they record the golf shots, the number of strokes you take. The walking in between, Uh, you know, it's it's central the competition from a fatigue standpoint, I guess. And the wear and tear. I mean, that's that's part of having to survive the marathon of a tournament week. But walking between shots is not integral to how we keep score. Um, I don't know.

I think you can make the argument that that if Tiger wants, if he's if he would have a change of heart. I don't think anyone have any problem with him taking a cart and playing sem two holes and hitting you know two seventy six golf shots. But um, Michael, I know you as the as our traditionalist feel differently. No, it's not it's not even that. It's just, you know, we're all students of Tiger. It's not about what others would think. It's just really about what Tiger is in

Tiger's heart. Uh Uh, it's not even Ryan. It's a great word pride, for sure, but it's even more than that. It's just who Tiger is. I mean, this is this dovetails exactly with why you could offer Tiger woods. I would like to thank a billion dollars. And he wouldn't go down that live road because he's someone who looks back a lot, you know, to to look back just into the very near past. Uh. A golfer he really admired was was Jose Murial loftball Uh a lot off the ball. Uh had a ad toe put him on

the sidelines for for well over year. He miss major championships really when he was in the prime of his game, and he never thought once about asking for a dispensation. Uh. For cart I think you know Tiger's models or you know in a way Jones certainly Hogan a Loaffootball Arnold, who was very much opposed to uh to to to using carts. And I just think it's central to Tiger's

personality type that golf is a walking game. Period. Yeah, I respect it, but it's uh, I don't know, I mean, it's it's he Tiger is a is a prisoner of his own mythology. You know, he he mentioned it this week. Oh well, Daily took a cart. But I played at the US when he US open with a broken leg, like you know, so I think he's paying himself into corner here. He just can't go back on that. But

but his mythology is who he is. Uh. So what you're asking him to do here, I totally understand what you're asking, why you're asking, but what you're asking you to him, he couldn't actually be true to himself and do it. Uh somebody else could? Uh? And uh, you know I would agree with you Ryan Casey Martin when he was assuming the tour for the right to use a cart. Just let him use a cart. What's the

big deal. I mean, I believe the society that can be accommodating and should be accommodating, But that's not a statement on what's in Tiger's heart. So I think it's very interesting that that he has no interest in it. Yeah, I totally respect the fact that Tiger doesn't want to take a cart. Totally. I understand it. I get it, and I understand that that's who Tiger is. I guess I I came at it from two completely separate things. Totally understand why Tiger is not taking a cart and

totally bummed that he voted against Gayzy Martin. And uh, uh that is what it is. I mean, it's if Tiger one out of a cart, I think he'd put an asterisk on his own on his own victory. So I don't think he think. I don't think he would think it's a meaningful a meaningful win. Uh. You know, if you know Sammy Socie used to cork bat, I mean it's not the same thing. Uh. I just think I come at it from my own perspective. When you know, Matt Genella and myself and a couple of wo went

to pine Hurst. We played eight rounds in four days. We played all the courses there at that point. This is this is way back when, and we we mostly walked, but we Uh, I think we took a couple of cards because we were just uh, chasing daylight and this and that, and at the end of at the end of the trip, you just add up the scores and we paid out all the bets and there was no asterix on which who rode and who and who walked.

And obviously we're not talking about the US Open, but to the fundamental of the game is hitting the shots, counting the scores. And to me, I personally would not be bothered if Tiger took a car, and I wouldn't assign an asterix to what he had done. I mean, you still have to play the shots. And he's already you know, he's got one and a half legs, and um, he's already a huge disadvantage. He's got a fused back, and he's got you know, he's a bionic man. So

I don't think there's an asterisk needed. But I do agree, you know, part of what made probably we talked about Ben Hogan in nine because he survived the bus accident and he had to sit in a ice bath after every round, and you know, that's that's part of it, is preparing the body. But it's an interesting conversation to me and and and just to follow up and that I thought about about Hogan. This is one the most interesting Hogan quote Severn Night. As I get older, I've

come to appreciate Hogan more and more. I am the judge of my own standards. It's a famous quote associated with not associated is from Hogan and uh and that's what Tiger is saying here too. I mean, I guess to Ryan's point, he's not really because he's saying nobody Casey Martin as well, but he is saying to us in his own way, I am the judge of my own standards. So I think there's something very admirable about that.

He's gonna use a cart to the father's son, which is not really in anyone's mind, that different than than the hero world challenge. Does Charlie take a card? Does Charlie ride in the cart? No, Charlie Watt can Tiger Road. I'm saying, is the is the the world challenged that much more of a serious competence and than the than the Father's son. I mean Victor Hovland, yes, but to

the world at large, I don't know. Well, Tiger would definitely say yes, you get you may not like it, but you get World Golf Ranking points for the hero, then you a not you get a lot of points. Actually you get a lot of them. Just one cook note.

I probably have made this point before, but I've had a fantasy, and now it's really going to prove to be a fantasy that when Tiger turned fifty, he would take the three senior Majors, the US Open, the Senior British Open, the Senior pH A Championship seriously and make it a thing to try to win all three eventually or win three in one year. And I thought he could really elevate those events, which I think are already terrific events. Uh, that's not going to happen either. No. No,

you mentioned world ranking pays. Let's go there, because I of course was rooting for Scottie Scheffler to in the World Challenge, because he would have gone back to number one in the in the world based on the copies number of points he would have earned by beating nineteen guys most of them are on vacation um. Because I root for chaos at all times and that would have has been delicious, and you root for the story root

of the story would have been a great story. I mean, all these live guys are You're getting pounded because they want they want more ranking points, and they're just they're just pass them out by the bushel in in the Bahamas. It's it's a little wild and um and it doesn't quite jibe with the narrative there's been constructed around all this stuff, but it's good fun. My tweet. My tweet was after Victor one is Victor just wanted second straight guys trip. I mean, like, it's a dude, it's a

guys trip. It's nine, it's twenty guys. They all stay in the same resort there. You know they're hanging out. It's the end of the season. No one could give a shit less who really wins, Like, yes, I get it, in the final round, like there's some pressure you want to win. I get that their competitors, but like on Thursday afternoon, no one cares, No one cares. And the fact that you get world ranking points for an unofficial event, it's not even a PGA Tour event. This is just

this is tigers guys trip right like it is. I mean, listen, I'm not here to defend lift, like literally not here to defend lift, but it is a slap in the face if we think that this is not a joke. It's two times the live live events are two times the field size and they're eighteen less holes, and we're saying that's not allowed. But this is it's insane. I mean, it's it's so ridiculous. The more you look at the official World Golf rankings, the more of a joke. It's

kind of becoming. Well, and I mean I've covered tigers event and a handful of times, and guys are putting a little, a little effort early in the week and in the first round and who shoots like higher than seventy one. They they're like, I'm out, I tried, I don't have it. And then a day to anyone anyone who's you know, more than seven back, Like basically twenty guys maybe out of twenty, maybe sixteen care at the start the week, after Thursday's round you're down to about ten,

and after Fridays round there's about seven or eight. And on Sunday there's only four or five guys who care because I have a chance to win. So it's um, it is, it is what it is, But I win. I win at the here I win at the Hero meant so much to Patrick Reed that he brought a fifteenth club. Yes, it being too like I wish I could make a better sound for Michael's inger's but yes, uh uh, well, I mean for Victor Hovelin, it's you know, it's not a bad win. Like he's a guy who's

still trying to build a resume. I think he's trying to I was out there walking with him at um the Old Course, and it was a little discouraging to watch him retreat. I mean that moment. I mean, this is maybe the best driver of the golf ball on the planet. He kept in hybrids off the t and irons. It's like, Victor, what are you doing? Man? He was playing so conservatively? Um And did you actually say that

to him? Because would be worried that to myself, I should have like, so one need to say something to him. He just he didn't look like he was playing to win. It was so strange. So I think for a guy like him, it is meaningful to um when you have a chance to close, you close that that that that has value to Victor Hovland and you're gonna raise in your status with Tiger is gonna is going to be risen raised, We'll go up. Uh and that's a positive.

Oh yeah, these guys, these guys live for validation from Tiger. So now he's won it twice and um, you know in future writer cups when they're interacting like he'll I think you're right. I mean, Victor's gonna be like, I've shown this guy what I can do. And there there is a weird, weird energy around Tiger that guys have to get used to his presence. And um, so for for Victor could for him. But I mean, listen again, he beat twenty of the top whatever thirty players in

the world. I get it. He beat twenty guys. He beat nineteen guys like it's I don't know what it validated. Nineteen ten of them are there to like, have fun and have a vacation with their spouse. I don't know. Do you think Ryan and Allan, do you think Tiger would have a hard time drawing the field he draws if there weren't world ranking points being offered. Percent that's why they are offered. I would guess. I don't know anything about this, but I would guess a hundred percent

that's why they're offered. I mean, if you if you look at the history of of the World Challenge, initially there weren't ranking points, and he's still leaned on his buddies and they showed up. So I think that he would get most of the same guys just because he's He's Tiger effing Woods and they want to kiss the ring.

And these guys have any self awareness, They know that their their third home, their second ferrari, and most of their net jets is due to Tiger Woods and um, so I think it's you know, it's just showing respect in the way. I mean, even guys would show up for Byron Nelson's tournament when he was still alive because of Byron Nelson. You saw as soon as he died that field just created. And they don't have the same connection with with with him that it was just a

showing of respect. So I think Tiger would still get a terrific field. You might lose a couple of guys, but were now that the world ranking point is a no brainer, and half these dudes have a house in Albany. You know, it just it just has become a whole um as Ryan suggested, has just become its own little event. That's that's fun and a little bit of a lark. So it would have been so cool to hear Tigers say, you know, we're say in the future, you know what

a two manfield, no cut, We don't deserve world ranking points. Uh. I remember when starring a rain Delay. Yeah, one set augusta Uh, thunderstorm came in and Tiger was he was deep on the course, not that deep, but he might have been unlike fifteen tea and a band came by to and I was splent with Thomas Bjorn and uh. Bjorn said, oh, they've got a band for us here and uh and they were both playing like dogs and uh and Tiger said, do we deserve right in from

the way we're playing? And uh, I think they hiked up the hill. Uh. That's just how he is him. Uh. You know, I think Tiger knows he doesn't just quote deserve that pip money. It's a joke, and he must know at some level that these points are a joke. But to really put your money where your mouth is and not accept him, that would be maybe bridge too far, but it would be cool. Everybody was looking for what's the f t X. The CEO is named Sam. Yeah bankman,

Yeah yeah, bankman. Rabbit Port wrote a article about it that everybody was on the lookout for, uh for Sam and was he in the field or he's hiding out there, He's avoiding he's avoiding prison by hiding out there. Yeah. No, that it is a world unto itself. Like one of the power moves in the history of sports journalism was when um Right Thompson was trying it, when you did write a terrific Tiger story, but he was pursuing him.

He actually chartered a boat and you wouldn't call it a yacht, but a good sized boat to to take him from I guess South Florida to the World Challenge, just so he could be in that same marina as Tiger and kind of penetrate one of the layers of of you know, of access and and get within the bubble.

And he didn't get that much out of it. But it's I love that we're we still live in a world where a reporter charters of boat chasing Tiger would So maybe maybe someone from the financial time should try that, you know, like or uh or fortune like that. That's how you do it. I mean, we all try track Tiger's plane, you know, so like everybody's we're all we're all playing and boat trackers. At this point, I know

it's pathetic. Um. Well, since we're on the topic of Tiger and we've we've the live subjects has been raised. I mean, it was interesting that he used the exact same words as Rory Um in his press comment was talking about Greg Norman, who of course runs live golf.

Greg must go and um, it's almost like they work shop the phrasing together, Tiger and Rory on the back night at summon all or something, and um, it's it's interesting that we all know that Norman is a bit of a priah and he he inspires feelings and he's he's clearly a thorn in the side of the PGA tour. But it's to me it's very suthing that Tiger and Rory have made it so personal because it is this about business or is this personal? Alan does that? Is

the presupposition there that you believe it? Do they really think that? I think it's just posturing. I mean I think I think it would be helpful, you know, if they're going to try and um, you know, somehow forge to compromise. I think probably Greg and j Monahan both should probably exit stage right. You're bring in fresh blood. They can say, okay, the new guys can say, hey, all that nastiness, we didn't mean it. We're here to make p He's like, I don't know if it's mandatory,

but it would probably be helpful. Um, but I think it's it's it's a reflection of how effective Norman has been, that he's so under their skin and in their heads. Like, if I'm Greg Norman, this is like a feather in my cap. I'm I feel more secure in my job, not less. I love the Norman's response this week from I think it was Golf Week. I don't know where he said it, but Norman said he doesn't care or think about tiger Woods and Rory backle Roy. Like, okay,

first of all, obviously you do. And second of all, is just so like so Greg Norman, right, like the little I know of him, Just like the public persona of just saying you don't care about Tiger Woods. I mean the pettiness on every side, from j on the down on the tour side and Greg on down on the lift side. It is just a as my colleague Allen Shipnik would say, a a gift from the content guys. Ridiculous.

I don't see how Alan and Ryan, I don't see how that is a genuine statement on h on either of their parts, Rory's or Tigers or anybody else who would say uh, Because what you have here is an entire threat to your ecosystem and the PJ tour as we know it. And you've got literally millions of fans, golf fans across the world who are their lives are lives as fans are sort of hanging the balance because

of this whole thing. And you too, well known golfers, extremely well known fifth you know, fabulous town golfers and best known golfers on the planet, are going to put this whole thing on hold because of one guy who doesn't even hit a shot. It's just not believable. I think they must realize that Norman's not going anytime soon, and that it gives them time to stall and try

to figure out what's next. Because the way I see it, Live, you know, I mean, the courts will be the courts, and they'll have a lot to say here, but Live's got all the cards because it's got all the money and uh and Jay Monahan said that himself in June. If this is a fight of up money, we can't compete because they've got a lot more money than than we do. So I don't buy it. I don't think it's a genuine comment on their part. I think it's a clever Stall tactic. Interesting to me, it sort of

diminishes Rory and Tiger to some degree. But you know, Roy has been set up as the conscience of the sport and this noble um figurehead, and why is he why is he rolling around in the mud with Greg Norman like he? I think he should be above that. And it makes him look kind of small. He's already they listened at five ten, he's already about five eight. But it makes him look even smaller to me, right, because if he's going to go down the road of

we're actually gonna need to have some kind of compromise here. Uh, Greg Norman, no matter what you think of him, he's not evil. You just don't agree with him, So it just, I don't know, makes no sense to me. Yeah, And I meanwhile, Roy is the one who has been banging the drum the loudest about you know, there's gotta be a middle ground here, and he thinks that he um

that he's trying to facilitate the compromise. But I think he's complicating it because Norman is very tight with the two guys who run the public Investment Fund who who are funding Live I mean, they they are thick as thieves, and um, I think their allegiance are with Greg. He brought them the idea, he's brought it to life. He's pushed all the right buttons. I mean, of course he said some dumb things along the way, but I don't think they're bothered about that. And um, it's been by

any measure of smashing success, So there they have. I think they're committed to Greg Norman. So if if if Roy is serious about wanting to compromise, I think this just makes it more complex. And I gotta fact check twoth things on. I gotta fact check twoth things on at the very beginning. At the very beginning, you said the Tiger Woods is the g o A t. Not everybody who goes to that, And there are people who would not agree that this Live Tours a normal year

has been a quote smashing success. Okay, that's hyperbolic, but considering that it did even in exist until March. When you look at the players they've signed, you look at the amount of traction they've gotten in the media, the energy finished smashing success success. Now, as as a competitive offering to fans, I think we can all agree it's a little lacking. But um, I mean, I think they're light years ahead of any where any of us thought

they would have been. So yeah, and they have arguably the best player in the world playing for them, Like no one thought any of that was possible. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I don't even think there's I think if Cam Smith and Rory McIlroy played head to head on ten different kinds of courses in ten different conditions, I think I think Cam would beat him seven out of ten. So wow, what, Yes, Cams, Cam is really good. He just has a gift for

scoring that you know, Rory. To me, it really comes and goes like if and I love Camp, Cama is kind of becoming like of all the people, I don't really miss a lot of people that have gone to live, but Cam is definitely and not only his play obviously, but he just seems to be like a down to earth kind of dude. Like they had the videotape if

you guys have saw it on Twitter. Michael's not on Twitter, but like he's watching a replay of himself in in a bar and there, I mean, he's obviously hammered drunk and uh, I mean he's just like a good dude and like, and then he didn't realize there was a third another cut at the Australian Open this week and he's like, they said, why did you play bad? And he said, yeah, I had too many beers last night.

I was I was hungover, like like I I can just get down with a guy who's just a dude that and it's really good at golf, like, yeah, I won last week and I've been partying for a week. So I don't want to tell you. Yeah, no, I know it's It's gonna be fun to watch him in the majors next year. As we've talked about before, the imports of Majors has gone way up. We're gonna bring all these players back together, reunify the game four times a week, and the fristion and the energy around the

Major's is gonna be octacular. And I mean Cam's tailor made for augusta national, any firm fiery open course on either side of the ocean. Um, I mean, like l a country club is not a traditional US open course. It's not tight like that. I mean there's there's room to play. The green complexes are amazing, Like it's gonna be pine Hurstian and that it's gonna be a lot of finesse and and and a lot of scoring. And like I'm not suggesting Camps it's gonna win the first

two legs of Grand Slam. But he's dangerous. Oh wait, no, the pgs before the gents open now. Anyway, whatever the point is, camp Smith is going to be a keynote player in the majors and it's just gonna add to this whole thing. And to Ryan's point, you know what, you know what they have all the they have these different criteria for how you win the pit money. They should have something for how unpretentious you are, because they're also pretentious for Scottie Scheffler. You can't believe it. Cam

Smith would do very well in that category. You'd be the best. So seriously, it's so dull. Yeah, that's well said. Um, let's see well thinking thinking about the world of golf at large. Um, you know it's big news in Poland's like Poland's going crazy. They finally they finally want an Australian Open Ryan, did you did you call your friends? You call your friends anything about Australian Open champ? Can you tell us anything about this dude other than he's

really tall? I just want to know who you call them? Poland? I don't know that's going crazy? It's creative license? Is it the novelization? What just happened? We're breathing to life what it should feel like now? The reality is they're probably not going crazy in Poland, but I hope I somewhere they hopefully one bar they're going crazy. Yeah, definitely. And though how is golf in Poland? Like, is that a popular sporting It's a short season, man, I mean

it's super short. I would Here's what I learned, Like, I didn't know that people from Poland are called a pole, Like I just assumed they were like Polish or Pole. I don't know. I didn't have Polish, but uh, Adrian Moronk is the first pole. It's weird to say, uh.

To win on the DP World Tour, he won the Irish Open, um, he went to East Tennessee State, he played on the Challenge Tour for a long time and now he's won the Australian Open and ruined many people Sunday because they wanted to come see their favorite son, Adam Scott roar of Victory and he got demolished by a six ft six pole. Well said and perfect. It's

perfect and not. So It's one thing to win a tournament when you went out on the courses like Kingston Heath is one of the twenty best courses in the world and Victoria, Um, why they played across two courses. Victoria's absolutely wonderful. That was Peter Thompson's um kind of hang out. There's a great statue him overlooking the course. And Victoria is absolutely one off. I'd gladly play there the rest of my life every day. So, uh, you know, you when you went on these big time courses, Uh,

it's it's significant. I think that this is the guy we're gonna have to take seriously. And you know, hanging over all of all of these Shamus Powers and these other guys who are popping up this year is the Ryder Cups. You know, what is it nine months away? Now?

Like it's things are getting serious, so that the jockeying forum for spots on the Ryder Cup has definitely begun on the European team and um so uh, I don't know, we'll have to do a deep dive on on golf and Poland at some point, but he's also playing his wine to uh to representing Poland and the Olympics. I don't think there's a lot of competition, to be fair. I mean it's great, it's you're gonna represent your country and many things. Let's hold on. I will hold while

you guys talk. I'm gonna see if there's any other how many Polish golfers are in the Yeah, well so, and we don't have to go down the rabbit hole of whether the Olympics are are good for golf or not. But you know, I was in Rio. I was hoping to go to to Tokyo, but because of the COVID stuff, it just was going to basically be a prisoner of a tiny hotel room, so I skipped it. But the thing that was cool and Rio was it really meant a lot to these golfers to be there. And it

was a kind of recognition. Uh that is hard to come by because they're not going crazy in Poland. Nobody even knows this guy won the Australian Open. However, if you're an Olympian, that has meaning. You know, like I'm sure that Poland is strong and a lot of the winter Olympic sports, and you know, the the title Olympian has value in places where golf does not have a

strong culture. And so if he does get to the next Games and that goes on his resume, and if somehow he has a great week and sneaks out metal out like that's monumental, that could change the shape of of Polish golf forever. So um, I mean we're sort of joking, but like this is where the Olympics is really cool because in these countries that do not have a rich golf in tradition, um, everyone knows what the Olympics are and and everyone knows what a gold in

the silver and a bronze medal mean. And so witness what what did for Rory Sabbattini and Slovakian golf. When we go over to report the Polish Golf travelogue, we're gonna see what exactly. It did for for the Slovenian golf scene. But no, I mean that was that was that made that whole thing so much fun. I mean Rory Sabattini at the Olympics was that was a gift from the content gods. I mean it's I still can't

believe that happened. And who when Slovenia agreed to it, you know who was like, yeah, that's finally probably took a totally person to rubber stamp. I don't think it was a big bureaucratic process. They were happy to have him, Unlike you know, the PGA tour and Roy's brethren over here, they're like, yes, please, we love you, come on over. I can't find the new just as this is total sidebar, but the new O W g R site is as bad as the Kings for the Hero World Challenge. I mean,

that's site sucks now. It used to be it used to be able to find it by country, and I can't find it. So I'm just gonna assume that Adrian Moronk is the one of the few Polish pros I would assume, yeah, right now, But who knows what's coming. I mean this this is like savory pack. You could, you could change golf forever. You just don't know how rich the pipeline is of talent. What's what's happening to the Norwegian pipeline? Oh with the victim Yeah, that's a

good question. I mean that that's the thing is And that's another spill over from the Olympics is that you know, all all these nations have funding for their Olympic programs. You know, they take it very seriously. And now that golf is an Olympic sport, I'm sure that all all these smaller countries are helping to grow grow the game to our favorite phrase, And so you know, Victor Hovland is definitely a threat to win, to win a medal at the Olympics, and if that were to happen, that

would be a monumental deal. And um, so yeah, it is. It's probably you know, I know, our colleague Jordan press Is has wanted to write a big story about all the different federations and how it all works. And I'm going to call her after this podcast because we're raising some interesting points here, like what what's bubbling un to

the surface. You know that anecdotally, when the games went to Rio, all the all the national federations in South America and Latin America started pumping money into golf because they realized, you know, if you if you want to compete in a team sport, you need so many players. I could try and win a gold medal or even a bronze medal in basketball, like you need so much talent um, but it only takes one guy with a

gift to bring home a medal. It's a good investment if you're if you're trying to match dollars per medals, like golf is a very good investment. You just need one guy to do it. And um it doesn't doesn't need any teammates, doesn't need you know, uh that much infrastructure.

So um, I think I think, you know, we may be onto something here accidentally that that um there, there's there's there's there's stuff happening that you know, beneath the surface and all these smaller countries, and it'll be cool to see how it plays out. All right, Well, I just found I've searching out the w GF for Adrian Wronk and Polish players, but I just found out there's an Albanian Pro, one Albanian Pro and he made a cut in a Canadian Tour event this year. Oh yeah,

said side. I mean that's the thing. I mean, golf is such a meritocracy. If you can if you can shoot, keep shooting sixties six is you're gonna find a way and and so, um that's what's cool about it. You really, you really can blaze your own trail. Adrian Moronk is fifty six in the world currently and I mean it's gonna be in the top fifty after this win easily. I mean it's just wild. He's really I mean East

Tennessee State. I read a story about him today. Um, he was kind of discovered by uh, I can't remember the coach's name, but he's a leadbetter disciple and he was on a range looking at a bunch of kids had no thoughts or didn't even know about Adrian Morancan said he saw him at the end of the range and he could just tell by the way he was hitting it that he was different than the other kids.

And it's still his coach to this day. That was like when he was fifteen years Oldso I went to East Tennessee State and then played on the Challenge Toured like mediocre for a couple of years, three years, and then finally get his card and here he is waxing Adam Scott at the OSSI Open And oh, by the way, did you note who is on Adam Scott's bag these days? Oh? Steve, Steve's back, Michael. I think you have more of a relationship with Steve than almost any other writer. It seems

like he will actually answer your calls or your emails. Like, how have you established this chemistry? I don't know, but I'll tell you this. I don't know really where it's where it started. Maybe the here we at sports Ilustoro Al and I were at sports ilistor together we would uh sometimes help athletes in different sports, right first person pieces. And he wrote a first person piece about about his experience as uh catting for for Adam and I interviewed

him and wrote it up in his voice. But then he took it really seriously and he's very bright and uh, you know, I think a lot of us have the impression but probably rightfully so. They was half a thug, uh based on some of his behavior when when he was catting for for Tiger Woods he was sort of tigers enforcer. But and it's a very significant but there's a very thoughtful, intelligent and really really golf knowledgeable side

about him. I mean there are you know, actually, as I'm thinking, there are, there are other things as well, some of the crude comments he made about Phil Nicholson, various other things. But leaving that aside, he's like everybody else. You know, there's multiple sides, uh to his personality. And by the way, you know, Adam Scott, I don't wouldn't have a crew thug on his back. He just wouldn't. Uh yeah, yeah, now maybe you know now many of

us would remember Steve Williams cadding for Adam Scott. Uh al, what what was that? What was that open that or anyone from the car park? Was that Witham with them? Yeah? Yeah, you could you know, you could see Williams was more pissed than uh that I'm Scott and Adam Scott was plenty of plenty annoyed. Um. But anyway, I just think it's it's very telling that Adam Scott would want Steve Williams back on his bag. And uh and Alan you

made this point the other day. There are two caddies who are actually really significant figures in this game today Stee Williams and Jim Bones McKay. Uh. Uh, it's it's neat. It's interesting. They do it very different ways. Uh, but uh it's just another way to and for us to

enjoy the game, you know, seeing these guys in action. Well, the ultimate showing of macheesmo and like hyper masculinity was Stevie at the Masters were in the white jumpsuit with no shirt underneath and just showing all the chest hair and like, um, it was like this is it was so old school. I wonder if he'll bring it back. But I always, like I always was amazed at the

green jackets. Let him get away with it, but you know, it was it was very provocative and uh it's certainly you know it kind of fits with its part of why why he was a great match for Tiger, because Tiger kind of exuded that energy as well, and Stevie walked fast. He's a big dude, and you always had a scowl and he was always barking at fans, which

admittedly he kind of needed to do. There was always an element of chaos around Tiger, especially in the early years, and um, you know it was they were they were it was a good pairing, you know, Like I mean, Stevie wasn't better shape than Tiger. I remember a Cappalua one year. Um, I was just kind of hanging out and he came huffing and puffing and drenched in sweat and Butch Harmon's are this is like, I don't know,

Tiger stop playing that tournament pretty quickly. So this was late nineties or whatever, and Um Williams they had some bet whether he could jog the entire back nine up in Debt, which has incredible hills, if he could had to go on the cart path and do the entire back nine, And it was like in twenty two minutes or something insane, and he did it, and he won the bet and like took a took a Benji off of off of Butch and like, I mean that would

put any of us in the hospital. But so yeah, there was there was some sort of chemistry there with with with with him and Tiger that that um fed the whole thing. I think I bet you Steve Williams, in his own way probably has something he quote still wants to prove to himself or to golf or whatever it might be, because uh, all and I think we've talked about this moment and Ryan, I don't think you and I ever have, and I don't think too many

people know about it. But the uh, the open in in Northern Ireland that that Shane Lowry wanted at Port Rush. Tiger was practicing in the rain. It was insane and he had his little entourage around him, including uh, Joela Cobb and various others and Steve Williams, you know, like

you know, Tiger's practicing. Stee Williams is walking, you know, uh, right from right to left and uh, and he just says high to everybody, and everybody acknowledges Steve Williams walking by, just in a sort of an appropriate way, and Tiger would not stop and even make eye contact with him. And he had to know that Steve Williams was there. And uh, I think Steve was hurt or piste or both.

And uh, I can understand why, uh, because they did have a lot of good years together and I think sort of their thing is eased over the years as well, but obviously not completely. And um, you know, it would be interesting to know what really actually his motivating Steve Williams to come back at this point. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean he's a very righteous dude, right that. That was the really the breakup with him and Tiger was he had everyone's assumed everyone around Tiger was in on

on shuttling women in and out. You know, logistically, you're just assume they all knew, they all had to know, they all had to be enablers. And Steve Williams wanted Tiger's camp to put it in one of the public statements that Steve had no knowledge of the situation and they didn't do it, and he was Steve Bill was so piste off about that. That's really why he liked in somebody just just quit on Tiger because it was his personal betrayal, you know, best man in his wedding,

and um, he's oh, he had said that consistently. I don't have any reason not to believe him, do do you, Ellen, No, I mean I don't, Um, I have no knowledge of it. When the scale of Tiger's infidelity and and know, you would think that a lot of people had to know. And obviously his buddy Byron Bell was was booking plane tickets for Rachel you could tell and stuff like that. But on the other hand, Tiger was such a mystery to everyone. You never you never saw him, you never

knew we were staying. Like it's quite possible that they shook hands at the golf course and they didn't see each other until the next morning and so um. But based on how how righteous that Stevie was about it, it has the ring of truth because that's I feel, that's how I feel. I'm glad you said what you said, because it's it's commonly thought. Uh, now, what is it commonly thought? It's commonly thought that Tiger fired Steve Williams. Is that correct? Is that what people typically think? I

don't know. I mean, it's I think in Hainey's book it's pretty clear like that that Stevie was the one who initiated it, and because she wanted to work for Adam Scott, uh, while he was still employed by Tiger Woods, he went to work for the enemy, and that was tantamount of quitting. That was quitting. Yeah. But then but yeah, I mean, they never recovered from the scandal, and that was such a strain. I mean, I think I don't think working around Scott wasn't the cause. That was the

symptom but um, it is an interesting footnote. And it's funny that we're trying to ascertain the the motivations of a caddy. On some level, they're just carrying the bag and they're just there too, but not in this case. You're right, he had he has a different station in the game and you and so there's another It's just

a layer of intrigue there. And it's kind of weird, Alan, even to be talking about quote that the scandal now because you know, and Alan, you and I have talked about this for for what getting on ten years now, But it's so obscene our our our interest in Tiger's sex life, you know, I mean honestly, I thought it then and I still think it now. And when you think about this whole it took on on on Tiger's life. I mean, what right was that of anybody's to be

exploring his private life like the uh? But it really did turn his life upside down, and you know, and and and and now you know here you know, this is a totally different thing. But but that car crash, uh two years ago, Um, it turned Tiger's life upside down. And now that it's a different scenario altogether, and that's something people never talk about, and I can understand why because it's so depressing. But well, Mike went super Michael

went super serious. But I agree, Uh, Tiger and who he's banging is between him and his wife at that time, and uh, I just I never got it. I never got the apology. He didn't know me anything. Uh he owed his wife and kids an apology, not me, And I just never got it and the like. And that's why I just don't get Stevie Williams being I guess he didn't want to be involved for what reason, he had nothing to like, I would never think differently of Stevie Williams if he did or did not know about it.

So I don't I don't get that. I never got the whole scandal. Like again, it's is it right now? Of course not, but maybe the greatest athlete of all time across any sport, and that scandal had a profound effect on his career and is on the golf course performance. So that's where it becomes. It seeps into the public view. Um, because it completely derailed that the greatest golfer who's ever lived. And UM, I guess that part I agree with Hilan,

But I just don't like the apology. Yeah, derailed his career, okay, And yeah it was like some weird text messages and all that stuff was like I'm not saying we have a right to know, and the whole thing was way over the top. But you know, when Tigers out there selling buicks and he's got you know, kids buckle up in the back seat, and if that's the image you're selling, and and then I think what America hates more than

anything is a hypocrite. So if you're selling yourself as a family guy and and this paragon of of of golfing gentlemen and all these virtues, and then it comes out that in fact, you're something else. That's why. You know, if like Derek Jeter was out on the town every night with a different girl, nobody cared he was a bachelor. That was part of his brand. But when you're you know, when you when you pass yourself off as something that you're not, that's I think where where people um object

and they felt they felt betrayed. And you know, again was the Tiger's idea to have that bubick commercial. Like you know, there's a lot of forces that he probably just got swept up in and even in the moment when he's feeling he's probably like, oh, this is kind of this kind of weird, but you just you just go with it, and I'm glad you made that point. And and many did at the time, and many would today. Uh Uh. He was selling himself as one thing and

he really was something else. Uh, and that put people on edge. I would still go back to what Nicholas said at the time. You know, it's his private life, you know, why why should we care? But there's a lot to be said for what you for what you just said. Yeah, And I mean the thing is that the reason we're so invested in golfers, it's not because one hits a seven iron better than the other. It's

I mean, Tiger's whole story. It's you know, growing up not being feeling welcome at that these at these private clubs, and Earl Janglin, the change in his back swing and the hug at Augusta, like, it's it's their private lives and their family lives that frame the whole story, you know,

just like why was the Nine Masters meaningful? It's because you know, Ben Crenshaw and Harvey Peanick, and you know, it's like we care about athletes as human beings, like, but that's why we're invested in their story, and right or wrong, that's just how it is, you know, I mean Phil winning the two thousand and ten Masters, Well,

Amy has cancer, Like that's why everyone was crying. And so when when you have the heartwarming stories and you have these great victories and they're defined by the personal lives and the family life and and you know, the players dine out on that for a long time, but then there's a there's another side to that when when you when you run astray and there's the drugs, and there's the girls and there's all this other stuff, then

that's gonna be part of the story too. And so you can't only you can't only write about athletes when the warm and fuzzy things, because it's it's their personal stories that are so compelling. I mean, looking back on the scandal and all of it, is this is very like just a personal feeling, is it. It made me like Tiger more from the standpoint if we had him on this pedestal as some perfect person and he's flawed just like all of us, and he seems to be

a better father. Maybe he has a possibly addiction issues or whatever. But that's all we even all these people my aunt was an addict. Uh, we all know somebody who is an addict. Like he seems to be a her father, he seems to be a better girlfriend. Do we know that for sure? No, I don't know. It's not my business. But it seems to be that the scandal and the accident and his addiction is he's a flawed dude. And that's okay, we're all flawed. Like it's

it made me like Tiger more. Not the things he did, just that he was flawed. He screwed up, and he tried to become a better person, it seems so I don't I don't know. Like who he's banging is just not my business. Yeah, I fully agree with that. It's um,

but it's it's interesting. I mean, that was what thirteen years ago now, right, It all it all went, It all went parachaped around Thanksgiving and into early December, and um, it's one of the great what ifs in in sports history, Like, uh, what if Tiger never hit the fire hydrant, you know,

and if that stuff had never gone public? And um, who knows where he would be and um, you know the addiction issues that followed, is that is that related to lingering, depression and shame and all these things like who knows? It's it's it's a wild turn of events and we're we're not psychologists. We just played them on the internet, but it's, um, it's hard not to wonder

how things would have been different. I hope one day that Tiger writes his true feelings, not because like we deserve it now or what was happening behind the scenes, just like what he felt was it depression? Was it? You know, like he was held up to this being a perfect person, and you know he was obviously I'm sure in some ways ashamed of the things that he was doing behind his wife's back and those kind of things.

I would I would just be super interested, But obviously it's never gonna happen because he's he's a uh you know, he represents so many brands and those kind of things. He's just very you know, defensive about not defensive, but he just isn't very open. But I would love to hear about what led up to, you know, the things behind the scenes, just of of what what he went through why he felt the things that he did. So, wow,

this is a heavy this got heavy. Well you know Ryan that that entire one point was signed up to write a book with a writer who is like a psychoanalyst, guy named j. D. J D. Morrainger j R. J R. Moranger. Uh, and it didn't happen. But Moranger wrote Aggacy and wrote Phield Knight and uh to sign up with Morangers to say, you know, I'm going to spill the beans to you and not spill the beans that's a cressphrase, just be

truthful and examine my life. And in the end for different reasons, I'm sure it it's either on hold or isn't going to happen. It's not gonna happen. Um. Yeah, well it's fascinating. It's it's left to the novelists imagination to kind of wonder some of these things. I will say that there is enough out there called The Swinger to the guys on this podcast typed it and it does go into the heart and mind of a cross cultural golfing icon who's life is torn asunder by a

tabled fueled sex scandal. So um, there are some there are some answers in that book, I think if those are interested. Um, but it's interesting because you know, we we've got a sports enter in that book who says, you know, uh, what can a job of you guys doing if you just weren't telling us anything about the guy that you were covering, which we weren't. So I mean, you made a very very good point out and it's it's really easy for me to forget that big, broad,

major point because they're not politicians, they're not clergyman. They're just professional athletes. Um, but they are sort of duping the public. They are professional salesman and just just one general thought if I may, uh, and I we're probably wrapping up here, But When You Live has brought a lot of emotion to a lot of us in a lot of different ways. And one reason is we don't like to think of professional golfers or maybe I should speak for myself as grubby as money hungry, as why

I want the money. It's not supposed to be like that, or we don't think. I don't think it's supposed to be like that, but it turns out it is like that, and personally I find it disappointing. I shouldn't be surprised at sixty two, but I am there. You go, UM, yeah, well this is the thing about the Fire Drill podcast. And we start in in Poland and we wind up

in Tiger's Psyche, so you never know. Just for the record, I want to make it clear to that I want I finally found there's two players on the O W g R from Poland with points. Okay, there's a bunch listed, but none of them have points. So there's two. It's Adrian Irk and some guy in the challenge to her. So he is going to change. He is going to change Polish golf forever. Adrian Morroc agent of change. I

love it. Um. Before we let the listeners go, we should mention that, UM, if you've come this far, you seem to enjoy our podcasts. And here at the at the fire pick like that. We have another podcast, need a fourth It's Michael and myself Jeff Ogilvie. We bring in a different guest every week. Um. They drop on Wednesdays. This week is a guy named Brando Shamblee, very polarizing Golf Channel analyst. Um, and it was I'll let you Michael. I don't want to speak for you, but I thought

it was a fascinating conversation where we saw different sides. Literally, he was so thoughtful and um and you know on air he could be confrontational and spicy, but he he was just I think he just enjoyed talking about the golf swing, talking to Jeff and nerd ing out And

what were your thoughts about that that pod? I totally agree it was, you know, he The thing that made Brandon Brandle is he loves golf, and he loves the golf swing and and he went deep, you know, probably and large arcosh Jeff was there, and j and Jeff speak the same language if you like Michael Murphy, and that was really special. And I'm not comparing Brandon with Michael Murphy, totally different personality types, but it's really an opportunity to here Brandal I would say that is best.

It's terrific. Yeah, I think that's what makes the show as a listener may include, but like as a listener, that's what makes it the show good. Like Joel Damon's goofy and also like introspective, you know, like funny, and and Michael Murphy's like Mike Murphy's way too deep for me, but like people loved it and uh, Brandall Chambley is

going to be very good. So I mean, like that's what makes the show is like you're you're not going to get you know, the same person, You're gonna get people nording out and very deep and funny, and I mean it's it's great, it's great. I'm obviously biased. Well thank you, Ryan, So all right, this was another Sunday Fire drill. Um, we appreciate the listeners sticking with us here to the bitter end. We do these pretty much

every week. Um, the digressions are fun. Definitely didn't think we're gonna go in the direction we did with Tiger, but that that was fun. I mean we haven't actually haven't talked to thought about Tiger in that depth in a while, and he's just he's the defining athlete of our lives and our careers and we could we could talk about Tiger forever, and it's it's always always changing,

it's always evolving, and it's it's always interesting. So um for Ryan French, who's somewhere in Middle America, Michael Bamberger, who's we never know where he is on disclosed location, on disclosed Locasis. This is Alan Schipnuk in California. This was the Fire Drop Podcast and we're back at it next week. Thanks for listening. Bendig play Win made a fortunately, ran the table and thought I could fall. Then win At hit me like a cannon the ball and now

I can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head, can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head, can't get him out, and trying not to think what I'm thinking about