Fire Drill 050: Grit and Intrigue

Workshop and power Points. Both of those companies have been huge supporters of the fire Drill of fire Pick Collective, Dormy Workshop, Artisanal, Alan's word, Uh, club covers, Putter covers awesome stuff, go check him out. And power Points is a great scoring app. Really changes the way that you can enjoy playing golf. It's very cool. UH, downloaded and go my parcel. Thank you to both of those companies for supporting us. UM. We talked about a lot of stuff.

We talked about Roe and Chicago to UH. I love everything about this because it included a lot of great stories from Alan and Michael. Why I love to be on this podcast. They had some great stories about Roger Maltby someones that you probably haven't heard. And don't forget. All of these podcasts are on the YouTube channel. We put out a lot of awesome stuff on our YouTube channel. A bunch more coming out, including the Grind, which is

going to be unreal. So uh, go to our YouTube channel like it, subscribe to all the things you're supposed to do, uh in order to get notifications for the awesome stuff. Not only this podcast need a fourth a new podcast that we have for coming out, but all the stuff that's coming up. Without further ado, here's the three of us talking golf. I got can't get j nothing. What I'm thinking about, can't get well, I'm thinking about guys. Um you know this. This has been a messy season

in professional golf. We can all agree with that. But yesterday this is a list of people who won big time golf tournament. Tony fine Now, Tommy Fleetwood, Padrick Harrington, Nellie Korda personally four of my favorite folks in the game. I mean we all know that. And Roe he should CoA, that's right, I mean held back from the dead. I mean that he's only thirty one years old, like the guy feels like he's had three careers already. Um, we don't.

We don't have to celebrate every victory so much as just acknowledged that it's nice when good things happen to good people. I mean, especially Tommy Fleetwood has been a little lost in the wilderness. It hasn't won in three years with a golf swing that beautiful, and um, you know, he's just he's he's almost too nice to be a professional athlete, right, He's such a sweetheart. Maybe that's part of the issue, but I was delighted to see him breakthrough.

Fee now has now reached the magical threshold of five victories. As when we talked about last week, Russell Henley, you know that's um, it seems like all in the last month. What are our thoughts on, just just a very pleasing weekend in professional golf, what a week, huge week and all kinds of like juiciness that will get to as well, But let's start like on the golf course for a change,

we had good things happen on the golf course. I will say if I had to rank them in most important, I would put Nellie Korda as first because she's just so important to the women's game, right, Like she's a bona fide superstar, like obviously had some very serious health issues. Uh. Yes, it was like a relatively nondescript LPGA event end of the season. But I just think she's so important to the women's game, the court of Sisters in general, I think if I had to rank them in importance. Uh,

It's great to see Tommy Fleetwood win again. Like you said, good dude, Tony is obviously very well liked and and and has moved up to like star ranking on the PGA tour as they lost have lost some. But I think Nelly Corda's just like from an important standpoint, she is such a huge part of what the LPGA is going to be going forward. It's awesome to see her back. Well, I I would I would agree with that, Um, but

I would put I would put Tommy Fleetwood first. Uh. I mean, it doesn't seem that long ago that there was a magical combination of of Tommy Fleetwood and Francisco Molinari in the uh in the Ryder Cup, and you kind of hope that maybe that could go on forever. Of course, nothing really does. But sometimes these partnerships in golf to like like seven A Loaf the Ball and Alaball and Sergio uh and uh to me Tommy Fleetwood, just you know, I'm I'm happily surprised for the Putre

Tours benefit that he did not go to live. He seemed like he might be the kind of candidate who could um and uh when he plays well, it's great, great for golf. And I would say the same of you know, my big three Alan would know this well, Ryan might not, but my big three for the last five years have been Tommy Fleetwood, Jordan's Speech and the Italian detective Mulinary. So I'm always reading for those three. Yeah, and of course we're now less than a year from

a Ryder Cup in Rome. I mean, wouldn't be wonderful Francesco could rediscover his form, but definitely, you know, this European team is very much in transition and they're looking at a lot of rookies and unproven players coming through as as this entire generation of great players has been swept out to live. And so a guy like Fleetwood who has experienced who's he's kind of in that he's not old, he's not young. He's kind of in that

sweet spot. If he's on his game, aim like that, that becomes a big deal with or without Francesco as his wingman, and um so a a revitalized Tommy Fleetwood is a big deal when it comes to the Wryder Cup, And it's never too soon to start thinking about that for me, Alan, do you have any insight as to why he didn't go to live? Was he high on their list? So I would imagine he would be. Yeah, he was. I mean, I think he's a very simple guy and he he loves his family, he loves playing

the European Tour. He's found a nice home, you know, moonlighting on the PGA tour. And I think there's a small subset of humans that the quality of life and routine and comfort and familiarity kind of Trump's money. I mean, Tommy Fleetwood already made a lot of money, and I think he realized that's a lot more money is not going to really change my life. But he just likes how how things are and he's he's just kind of um. He doesn't he doesn't overthink things, doesn't overcomplicate things, and

it's admirable trait. I mean, um, going to live has certainly has his benefits, but you know you're gonna take a lot of rapnel. You're gonna lose out on all the places you've always enjoyed playing. Um, you might be given up the Ryder Cup. And I think Fleet was

just was content. You know, one thing I've always enjoyed about him is he just even as if the game kicks him around, and he's had a lot of a lot of near misses and he's he's blown a couple of majors, and but he does sort of exude gratitude and contentment like like, hey, I'm playing golf for a living. How great is this? Like that's always energy I get from him, no matter what, you know what, heartbreak gets

dished out. And so I think he's he's one of those guys who's just happy with where he is, and so why why blow everything up professionally? And you do raise a very good point because with this dual citizenship, he has, you know, on on two very very prominent tours, the European Tour and the US Tour. Um for years now, he's played where he wants to play, and uh, a live golfer can't really say that we can't say that,

you know, it's it's an interesting thing. I mean, he comes from a pretty scrappy part of England and I don't know that much about his his family growing up, but he's always struck me as a guy who's, you know, very middle class sensibilities. And it becomes a philosophical thing. He's averaging what three to five million dollars a year. That's a phenomenal living and if I live, maybe he

could make eight or ten. But some people are happy with three or five, right, I mean, like that's not a living alan that is one year more than ten families exactly. So I think in some small way it's obviously what's a rebuke to the excesses of professional golf right now, and I salute him for it. Uh just

a quick note on on not knowing his family. I don't know his family either, but uh, one year, my friend Burtus Downs and I and others were we're having teen downtown Berkedale the year that that that speed one, and Tommy's aunt was at the table next to us, having just come back from church, and we chatted her

up and she was delightful. That's why I think that's maybe where my whole Tommy Fleetood And you know, my thing with Tommy Fleetwood began at a Marriott, the saw Grass Marriott, where he was just like hanging out the entire week in the lobby, talking to whomever about anything. Uh So he just has an easy going nature and ut he is well. Yeah, and of course you know the Wryder Cup in Paris where where he was such

a star. And um, some people remember that I had written a column a year ahead of that basically predicting long term American dominance and large because of Tommy Fleetwood didn't happen in Paris. It's still gonna happen going forward, and I will vindication will be mine eventually, but certainly was not a great start. And so many people were so mad about that, and I got so much trapple. But Fleetwood and his caddie do. He's great Ian. They've

always had a great set of humor about it. And they see me and they laugh and they wind me up and like they were never mad about it, Like they took it from what it was, which is just a little bit of a little bit of track, as they say in Ireland. And um, actually so so you finish his Tommy's cat, who is great dude, so garrulous, and you know he's just a mountain of a man, but he's he's as sweet as his boss. He sent me a d M said, I'm gonna I'm at the airport.

I'm gonna buy the philm book. I need something to read. I said, I'll send you on don't be readulous Like no, no, I'll buy it, like I'm excited. And it was like, really cute. You know, just DM me for no reason other than to share that. So uh, Anyway, I think we need to talk about I mean, I would love to hear what you guys about Roe Chicawa, the dude. I mean, every time he wins, and it has been three years since he's one, he's thirty one years old,

he's eighteen wins on the Japan Tour. His first win came when he was fifteen years old. It's just ridiculous. It's insane. His career prior to that, and I wonder Someone tweeted like, do you think you'll ever come back to the PGA tour at me? And I was like, if he was ever, this would be the time to do it. Because a Headecki is to can you know a lot of the pressure that he was the maiden

son off of him. It would be very interesting to see what his career would be if he ever came back to the PGA Tour, because the first time he came here, he played okay, not obviously didn't win or anything like that, but he kept his card a few a few years in a row. But the entire nation was like he was the maiden son. I think it's the prod yeah, prodical son. Okay, uh whatever. I don't know these words, but but we don't know. He might he might view the US Tour like uh, like an

American player might view the live tour. In other words, he's got a home tour. He's happy there, he's been very successful there, and uh, you know what, why does he need to chase the US Tour necessarily to uh uh for any reason? Really? Uh? But I do remember when he played in that two thousand ten I think I have that year correct, Alan creck me if I don't. He got paired with Tom Watson for this first two rounds, and and Watson is nobody's full when it comes to

assessing talent. I remember Watson saying the brooks Kepka early on, It's like this guy is absolutely the real deal. And then Watson said that week that this Roy Chikao was was the real deal. So u uh, but maybe he's just very happy doing what she's doing. Well, you know remember, um, of course you remember this Ryan because you're a barn

Rat completest. But you know, whatever, it was a month ago when um cur Desk, you know, had that those very moving comments about how lonely he's been over here and how hard it's been as kind of a stranger in a strange land. And I think that's maybe something Issie cow has had to weigh. I mean, you can actually accrue pretty good world ranking points on the Japan Tour, at least in the old formula, and um, the Asian Tour is becoming more and more important in the grand

scheme of things. I mean it just maybe that um, he doesn't love it over here and doesn't feel comfortable and the golf courses are different. I don't know, but he did have a great nickname and re leased to call him the Bashful Prints. That's tough to yeah. John Peterson tweeted about the Bashful Prince and said he played probably the most two rounds. Uh, well of anybody he played with, it was with Row and uh and he just loved him. And I mean everybody that I talked

to loves him. And uh. I remember seeing him at some event, I'm sure the Bubi Open, but he had he always had club covers. His his driver cover was of himself and it matched and matched what he was wearing. Do you remember that, Like if he was wearing pink and Advisor, his head cover was him in a pink outfit with Advisor. I mean it was ridiculously. I mean, you have made it when you you have made it when you have a club cover of yourself, but it

also matches what you're wearing that day. A suitcase full club covers for every outfit. Yeah, he's like, I gotta do this. Oh and I gotta bring his scripting like the guys that do scripting on the the Masters includes a head cover for his driver. That's the next level. Yeah, well I would I would, you know, if it's in if it's in his heart, I would love to see and make another go at it because he there was so much promise there. And you bring up a really

good point about um. You know Headeki is, he's the master's champ, he's the man and the crush of Japanese media around ishikaw his first time around was suffocating just to watch I could imagine what it was like to be him in the middle of it. So there would definitely be a lot more relaxed um, and I think that would certainly serve him well. And it's different. He's a he's a hardened tour pro now versus a teenager. So, um, they'll be interesting to see how he builds on this.

And of course, you know, Live famously kind of open the vault for Adeki and he turned them down. I mean, I'm sure now there'll be more they'll is Sheiko is on the radar screen like that's always a subtext when a player has success. Now what does that? What does that mean in the context of live recruitment. But one quick note, especially for for our younger members over audience, but Soevy by Stir has become one of the great just golfers of all time, one of the most charismatic

offers of all time. By sticking to his home tour, the European Tour, and and playing major championships. Um, he came to the United States, he never really liked to hear, never really made his mark here. Um. But there is more than one way, of course, to the World Golf Hall of Fame. Uh, But just to becoming an iconic figure in world golf aside from the U S Tour. It's and it's always been the case. That's right. And even I mean Jumbo ZACKI, who's going back many generations now,

but really pioneer Japanese golf. He hardly ever left Japan. I mean, he was skipping the Masters because you don't want to. He don't want to leave Japan, so um, and he remains a revered figure. So you're right, Michael, I mean, especially in through social media and all interconnected world. I mean, if if Cows start winning regularly in Japan, that'll be felt elsewhere. So it'll be really interes to see what he does. Let's talk about Tony Fine now,

because the guy has been on an absolute heater. I mean he is for half a decade considered. First of all, it was it was an amazing story he made to the tour given his humble circumstances, but you could see the physical talent and then he was kind of an underachiever who couldn't quite win despite all the top ten and now he's he's winning at a furious clip. Um. You know, he's working on his golf swinging, he's done this, that and the other. But it just seems like a

comfort level and and and a confidence thing. And it is fun to see him in full flight, and it makes you wonder like, how is this really? Is he on a tear or is this going to become his standard of play? Which would be awesome to behold? So what are our thoughts on Tony Fine? I use a I mean, you said it, Allen, but the fact that he's on the PGA Tour is ridiculous. Turn pro seventeen.

Uh played many tours his whole life. A couple of side notes on the my side of the golf that I UH covered He um was a leading money winner on a tour called the All Pro Tour. I believe, I don't know know that that doesn't matter. He was a leading money winner and the tour went bankrupt and uh he never got paid, or he eventually did, but it was only part of it. And UH, I remember people I caddy down that tour. Uh when a couple

of players stayed. There was an event in Chicago, and I caddy on the tour and everybody's like, oh my god, this Tony Final guy is great. Um. And and second of all, uh, I tweet out often when Tony wins,

and I didn't do it this time. But it was a Genesis Monday qualifier what what whatever it was called before the open, referring to yeah maybe yeah, and uh he uh finished dead last in the Monday qualifier, dead freaking last shot two with an eagle, by the way, And it's just like no one knew who the hell Tony Final was back then, you know. Uh, he was a mini tour player forever. Now, granted he turned young pro very young, but um, I mean his path is ridiculous.

The fact that he is a top player in the world right, it just shouldn't be. His story is not told enough that he has gotten to this point well. And I mean it's a detail I love that, Like in his basically unheeded garage in Utah to hit balls in the winter, his dad just hung a mattress on on on the off the ceiling and Tony was just hit it into a mattress like that. That's about as no frills as it gets. And remember you know he said, yeah, I like maybe a little space here, but my hands

would be numb by the end. And um, it's a great story. It's a great image. Like you can just imagine that that sound like, you know, flap in the ball and the mattress over and over. It reminds me of Rocky like hitting the big you know, meat carcasses in in the freezer. It's kind of analogous and that will definitely harden an athlete. So it's cool that that Tony's access that and you know in winning time now

and and his his place in tournament golf. Oh's the most to the emergence of tiger Woods and the and the late seve he's in the early two thousand's. Tony's place does more Jordan's speed than Justin Thomas. They would have found their way to golf even if there had

never been a Tiger Woods. But Tony fine really needed tiger Woods to emerge, uh, to make golf cool interesting and you know, something he aspired to do because otherwise some of Tony Finell's athleticism is going to pursue one sport basketball That was the that was the sport and he I mean I know this because he's told me this. I'm sure he sold to many others as well. Uh So it's a significant nod. His whole career and path is a significant nod to uh to Tiger. And I

was just just one of the quick note. You know, of course we're all obsessed with the golf and we're all trying to get better at golf. But I think Tony Finel's actual golf swing like John Rom's, but it's but it's different as well. Show it's so different from Phil Mickelson's, and it's so different from Sam sneeds Um.

And it's just further proof that for all of the advancement in golf instruction him, there is no one way to go about this business of how to hit a golf ball and how to shoot the lowest scores over over seventy two holes. And I find that very inspired part of me very inspiring as well as well said, and you know, one of the first people who really encourage Fenee to go for it and and game a pep talk like son, you can do this was Lee Trevino.

And they crossed paths when Feene I think it was still a teenager and and and Lee Buck saw something special in this kid. And like you were saying, as Tom Watson has an eye for talent, probably Lee Trevino might be the greatest talent scout there is. Like he he just understands the game and it's such a visceral

sort of instinctive level. And um, you know, female is talked about how important that that was was to have as Lee as a mentor and obviously talk about in some ways, Lee Trevino was tigraphed for a Tiger in that he was a public course golfer. He did not look like the typical tour player. Uh, you know, he had he had to break through various stereotypes. And so I think, you know, people, any golfer of color is

gonna feel a certain kinship. And for Trevino to reach out to to Fee now is really cool and that that's part of his journey as well. That is really neat. And just one quick thing that that triggers. Last year at the Father's Son Tournament, Uh Trevino was there. It's

just he's in his early eighties, he looks great. It's just a total pleasure to watch Lee trevinoll play golfery golf balls beyond the range of Tiger Woods as he was, and Roger Malty the course whisper was there for for Golf Channel or NBC Sports And uh And I said to Roger that anymore. And I said to Rodge, does anybody know more about the golf swing than Lee Trevino? And Roger said, no, nobody knows more about his own swing than Lee Trevino knows about his. If I don't know,

if I made that, just could followed it. It was a long road to a small house. But can we follow what? No, No, it's big in the end because in other words, he knew his thing, and as you said, he had a great eye for for other things. But so I would distinguish a little bit between Lee Trevino and and Tiger What you said about golfers of color

and not being welcome in public. Off, of course, that well said all completely true, but it would be completely unimaginable for Lee Trevino coming off of driving range at Gusta National, as Tiger allegedly wins did and saying, you know, Tiger said, hey, Kenny, you better give me something right now. Lee Trevino just like had to look inside himself to

figure out what he needed to do. And of course that's why, that's why Lee Trevino was held in such awe by generations of players who came his generation and generations that came after him. Real quick, real quick about the Houston Open, because this is Tyson Alexander, son of famous Florida coach Buddy Alexander. Uh finished second, and I I tweet this often, but like no one saw Tyson Alexander's results and didn't think it he should quit. Three years, he took him to uh seven years to get the

Corn Ferry Tour. In three years, he missed at first stage by combined thirty nine strokes. He missed by twelve, he missed by fifteen, and he missed by twelve again like he was not He would never talking about people who are not supposed to get here. Uh. I mean eleven years into his pro career, first time on tour and four events into his his BJ Tour career, finished the second and I mean basically as his card locked up for next year. It's ridiculous. Uh, no way he

should be here. And Tyson is a good dude that I've talked with you know some but ridiculous. I mean, the guy missed a billion times at first stage and somehow is now you know, kept his card. It's ridiculous. Do you remember his mother, Joan? Of course? Yeah. For those who are wondering where Michael's mind is, Joan Alexander was a media official for the PGA tour, A very nice person. But is that is that did she marry into the family or is that his actual mother. I've

never been clear on that. I can't I can't say I got No, it's not that I can't say. I mean, I don't know. Good Lord Mike class An NBA with Joan Alexander, we don't know about it. Yeah, well, we'll tide you this up after the pod and make a few phone calls. But okay, one second, one second, but I think this is I was. You'll love this ran because when I was on the Latino Americans who Are in early two thousand eighteen doing that big story for Golf magazine, he was he was playing the tour and

we talked and I found him very engaging. But even then he was kind of pondering his his future. You know, we were we were like in this in this crazy journey, turns out to get from Jamaica to Costa Rica is almost impossible. And that that was we're all on this this flight. A lot of people flew um back into the US. And then when you went went north to go south, and one guy went through Toronto to save money, Like if you look at a map to go from

Jamaica to Toronto to go to Rica's absolute insanity. But he saved like three so he did it. And anyway, but even Tyson back then was like I don't know, man, like I have a question what I'm even doing here. And it was dark times. And so now four years later, as you said, he's he's now a legit PGA tour player. It's awesome to see and and everybody knows that Tyson's paternal grandfather was a drinking buddy of and golf partner of. Yes, holy sh it, I mean, this is why I'm on

this spot. Is so crazy that like what who, Like only Michael Bamberger and Allen ship Nick would just come in and we're like, oh, I hung out with him at the altin American Tour and then his ample was drinking buddies with Arnold Palmer. I was just like, I don't know, man, I have some Q School stats. I always feel so dumb on this podcast. Don't even go there. Just wait, I'm just fine. I'm hearing from people who

aren't buying this bullshit. So don't even just like, I put up some Q School stats and you tie it back to Arnold Palmer, Like what we would even be want about Tyson Alexander if you hadn't brought him up? Ryan? Fair enough, fair enough, I've done my I've done my Jenna. But we also need to talk about the fact that Michael Michael Bamberger for those not watching on YouTube, Okay, Michael Bamberger has a perfectly pressed white dress shirt on a very nice card again probably from I'm gonna guess

Ralph Lauren or something you know. And and and before the pots started he got off and he has p J pants on. Is like, I mean, it's a Ryan. I love his business on top party on the bottom. Everybody knows this. I love it. I mean people watching on YouTube, but like, oh my god, he has a he has a h he has a nice look at him. You get a sweater and a dress shirt on. Man, just got out of bed a couple hour minutes ago

before we started this. Indeed, I would never go down this road, and I'm not going on this road, but I would never buy rock that Ryan apologized. But you know that Michael has some deep affinity for the hard collar polos, to the point that if you see them at some Florida pro shop, he'll like clean the whole joint out. He has like a lifetime supply. Tell us that your tell us about this, Michael, you have a

history with these shirts. Well, no, no, we're not going to do a whole thing on that, but will appreciate this. I once, many years ago, had I was playing golf at Cypress Point Club and I was I was playing with the gentleman named Chuck Winston. Um. It was just a great gim and you had to wear a coat and tie at lunch at Cypress Point in those days. And he had a hard collar golf shirt on that would accommodate the tie so he wouldn't have to change for lunch to the first two. And I think that's

maybe where my thing started. Like this really actually makes sense now, of course, nobody works to tie a lunch anymore, but it's a whole thing. Yeah, that's funny. Um, alright, one one last winner. Let's just do a little a little chit chat about Padrick Harrington, who was one of the real originals in the game and had a terrific year on the Senior tour. UM. I absolutely love Padrick. He's so much fun. And one story that makes me

laugh is if you remember what he won. He won the British Open and he won the PG Championship, So he was going into Augusta trying to win three majors in a row. And I got to sit down interview with him, uh maybe six weeks ahead of the Masters, to do a big Master's preview story. And I've done all these stats, and I showed up with a big like yellow legal pad and I really wanted to like talk through his how he's gonna attack Augusta. And you know, I had stat upon stat and he looked at my

notebook and he said, put that away. I said, what do you mean. He said, I don't want to see that. I get that out of here. Like he was like, really like somewhat exercise. I said why, I said, It's just a bunch of stats. He's like, I know you're gonna ask me all these questions about how I've played

this hole and this shot. He said, I don't want to be standing out there during the Masters thinking about, oh, the fourteenth hole is where I have my highest stroke average, and you're the one who put that thought in my head. He's like, he's like, banish that notebook. I was like, okay, Pudrick, but like this is I had a whole thing here, and he's like, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean.

He's like, that's how fragile I am. I cannot be standing over a shot and I guess national thinking about a statu you put in my head six weeks earlier. And that amazed me. But I thought it was like so much insight into the guy. And we had a very cordial conversation after that. But I just had totally had to wing it because my months of preparation went out the window because he's so He's like a cat on a hot tin roof. Absolutely one of the funniest,

smartest people in golf. And we know, you know it's funny Alan when we and and Ryan when we said, when we come up with lists of people who would be good TV commentators when we often say Phil of course and Calumn Montgomery of course, but Patrick would be the best of them all. I've never really had that thought before, but he would be absolutely fantastic. I think this is a different conversation. I mean, he just fascinates me. And I said, what you've been working on, you know,

in your golfwak? I know you're always working on something. He's like, I've been thinking about the position of my tongue. Like I was like, like it was like a record scratch, like he said. He said, yeah, because where are you position your tongue affects your jaw, and if your jaw can affect your entire spine, He's like, so I was, you know, I've been experimenting hitting shots with my tongue in different positions and and with different um levels of

force against my jawline. And I was like, man, that's some next level stuff there. But he was dead serious along those lines. When you when you look at stop action photographs of like even Ernie els Uh, when you see him at impact, speaking of their jaw, their veins are always sticking out of their neck and they're all clenched and they're all tight and it's it's just such a reminder of what an athletic act hitting a golf ball is. Even if the overall picture is smooth and relaxed,

that moment an impact takes. So I think he's probably it's if I need another thing to screw up my golf. I got enough, yeah, Michael. But Michael will have his tongue out when we're playing next. Alright, So UM a victory that was that was overlooked by many golf fans but has meaning to us. What was Andy Ogletree winning in Egypt um as part of the International Series on the Asian Tour. And Andy Ogletree has accidentally become a

very important person in the world of golf. You know, he played one live event in London finished I believe dead last UM by a lot, but that he if If you're talking about this antitrust lawsuit between the PGA Tour and Live Golf, which could blow up the entire landscape but professional golf, Andy ogletree experience is going to be exhibit A because he was basically suspended by the tour and this is a guy who had no status, had nowhere to play um more or less, and that's

why he He he lunged at the first opportunity that was available to him, which was live golf and UM. And now he's you know, he's he's been he's been banished by the tour. Now he wasn't suspended for life,

it's basically till the end of this year. And his agent, Mac Barnhart, who's appeared on this podcast a few times, feels like they're going to be in position to get get Andy back on the PGA Tour um and if not that there, they will have a very strong case that the tour is coluding against him because he was not a PGA Tour member. He was not a lifetime member like a Dustin or Philmicholson. This this this is just

a young player desperate for a place to play. So, Ryan, what are your thoughts on on ogle Trees victory and what it means? Yeah, I mean huge, huge to him. I mean it's his first professional victory. He's just I mean the podcast, UM, you know, I I encourage a lot of people to go back. Uh, you know, I tweeted about him all week. He he led from the second day on UM and I mean he shot twenty

three under and I mean stared down, burned. Uh, I mean the Winsburger Wiseburger made an eagle on ten, hold out for ten, like got it within two and Andy just played well. Um but I tweeted about it a weekend. It really felt like Andy was at the like I mean, he was at a point of I'm not sure you know how many more years he can go on, even as the US Amateur champion. Just hasn't played well and uh,

you know, finally get over some injuries. But I just encouraged people to go back and listen to that podcast. It's easy from the outside to say he made a stupid decision to go to Live and get suspended and all those kind of things, and it's just not that simple. It's complicated, and he didn't have a place to play, and he was out of money and all the things that a lot of pro is go through. And no matter how he felt about Live, and I mean, he

seems to be supportive of it, which is understandable. He went there, but a lot of players in his position would have taken the one start even and he was hurt and not playing well at the time, obvious by his score. Um, but I think it's it's huge in the pro golf landscape. As you said, Alan, that that the Asian Tour is a viable option. Today starts UH Asian the first Asian Tour Q school in the United States. Um, it's only going to grow from here if if Live

continues to grow. Asian Tour is a huge part of it. The guy one seventy dollars, it's almost double what you're going to win on the corn Ferry Tour UH for an event. It's a huge part of this story in pro golf, and I think Andy kind of just proved that it's a viable way to do it going forward through Live Golf. You're gonna be able to play your

way on to Live through the Asian Tour. It may only be a handful of spots, but um, it's an actual road to a big time golf tour where we know the persons are huge and so yeah, we've talked about this previously. We don't have to go really deep again, but um, there's it's quite likely the Asian Tours is gonna surpass the European Tour and it's importance in the scheme of of global golf, and especially if you're a

young player, and a young American. Ryan's whole career has been built on on highlighting how cutthroat it is to try and make it from Canada or Latin America to the corn ferry to to Monday, to try and just get on the PGA Tour where it's so hard to keep your card, and if Asia Asia is turning out to be a very viable option, and for a young American, the United States Amateur champion, to go over there and and highlight that for his other colleagues, it's I think

that's powerful and and quick thought about that on UM. I don't think a lot of people would appreciate the fact that live is of all being very quickly here. And and one of the things that I think it's been a very legitimate criticism is that it's an invitation only series of of of tournaments. And of course where you're establishing here, where you're where you're describing here, is

that that's not the case. So you can play your way onto the Lift Tour via the Asian Tour, which I mean it's very different how it's done on the PGA Tour, but still proves that there there there is a merit path there's a lot of different there's a lot of different ways to define merit, but there is one very concrete, numbers only path via Asian Tour success that will get you on the Lift Tour. Is that. I mean it may only be three spots, it may only be one spot week to week. You know, it

fluctuated as as this season went on. But um, you know there's there's definitely going to be a path, and UM, you know that that is significant. It's also important from the World Rankings because that's one of the criteria that the World Rankings has set out, is that you need to be able to essentially play your way onto the tour if you want if you want world ranking points. So um that you know live Is is trying to check those boxes. I mean they they're trying to barge

their way in. Um when it comes to ranking points. I think they're realizing that it's not going to be that easy and so they're going to have to abide by some of the pre established criteria and that that's an important one. Is there has to be you know, there's there's a you're gonna love this Ryan. There's there's strong conversation about adding a Monday que Um however, yeah, so um, you know again, even if it's only one spot,

it's like that could change your career. So um so yeah, as you're you're right, Michael Live is adapting to the realities. They try to do it their way. Nothing wrong with that. I think they've realized that Okay, it's um, it's gonna be more complex and they're gonna have to make some

tweaks and that that's ongoing. So uh, if Greg Norman is listening, Um, I think I tweeted out that I'll take twenty million, uh to I'm covered the Monday qualifiers, but I talked to my non existing agent and he said, fifteen seems more reasonable. Soft million. Greg, if if you're listening, probably gonna accept ten. If we're being a Ryan, the agents supposed to ask for more than what the So I don't know something about about Aiogle Tree. Of course,

it takes enormous talent to make it in golf. But I think just the fact that he won this tour me here's a kid from smalltown, Mississippi's father owned to Piggley Wiggly there and now he's playing in Egypt, and it just is another demonstration of you have got to have the grit gene to make it in golf. Um and uh. And it's neat to see. And it's a

tremendous testimony to him. I remember when, of course we all remember if we followed golf closely winning one the U s Am and then and then many of us would remember how well he played when Tiger was the defending Master's champion in that was the postponed Masters in November, when Dustin Johnson won and he played beautifully the Thursday Friday rounds in the presence of Tiger Woods. Not easy to do. And then he fell off the earth, and it would be easy to say, like we'll never hear

from this kid again. And uh. And I watched it, just a brief clip of him yesterday, was like I didn't even I almost literally would not even recognize him. Uh. But it's a great testimony to to what's deep inside him without even really knowing. Just the fact that you saw his name in the agate listing of a tournament in Egypt and that he won is phenomenal. And I always think that top top amateurs like that. Um. You know, I see a lot of them in many Tour events.

I think it's just so hard mentally guys to get back right. Like I mean, Andy was the US Open champion, you know, played at Georgia Tech, had uh, you know, exemptions into PGA Tour events, and and not that long after that, you know whatever, two years he is playing the g Pro. Listen, the g Pro is a fine mini tour, but it is miles and oceans and countries away from PGA Tour events, and mentally, it's just got

to be so hard. The guy had, you know, exemptions, and I'm sure sponsors and those kind of things, and golf people forget quickly, and sponsors forget and people don't give a shit about you anymore when you start to play poorly. And Andy, you know, and he had points that he said about about live and and the PGA Tour. But Andy went wherever he could play. I saw him at the Colorado Open, played on the Golden State Tour, played on the g Pro Tour, played where he could play. Uh,

and now it's back. It's just it's a I love the fight part of it because uh, he was at the top of the world literally and uh and fell too near the bottom. Yeah, I mean, and look at look at these players were talking about. You know, Nell Corda obviously tremendously gifted, but blood clot in her arm. Her sister just heard her back and is out, Um like there's adversity there. Um. Tommy Fleetwood, I've been kicked around the last three years. He comes back and wins

in Africa of all places. You know, Um, we talked talked about fee now, I mean I like that the grit gene, Michael, it's it's it's a real thing. And you know, even Padrick like he was, he was a good European tour player, and he knew he had more inside of him, and he dedicate himself to blown up his entire golf swing in his game because he felt

like there was another level there for him. And it was a gamble, right, I mean he this is a guy who famously took like an accounting degree because he wasn't sure he could make it as a as a touring pro. But he knew he knew what he had inside of him, and of course it paid off, winning majors, can be Hall of Famer, and now he's's having a great final act on the on the senior tour. So I mean, we talked so much about talent, that's the

word that gets thrown around so oh much. But grit is probably the delineator, and at that at the professional golf and uh, I've said this a million times, but the greatest grinder I've ever seen in golf there the two guy caddy for named Billy Britten, who's um uh, who played in the eighties. But the single greatest grinder in the history of golf is Tiger Woods. There's no question about him. I thought so hard for every stroke.

I mean, it's it's true. Yeah, Well, this would be a great place to end the podcast, but we have there's some other things we should talk about because everyone's talking about them, and we were just talking about Live Golf, and the big news out of Live this week is is Pat Prez's war on Phil Mickelson. You know he Um, he had some very spicy comments, and of course people

have been asking me about them, so I will say this. Um. I knew there was history there, and in the writing of the philm book, I went to Perez and I said, I've I've heard this part the rumor from a lot of people. Um, And he didn't want to talk about it and then when he when he when he signed up with Live I went back to him. I was like, I mean, you know, you're now in a very closer environment. And Phil, I mean, come on, He's like, I'm not

going to talk about it. And UM, in this very litigious moment in in golf, let me choose my words carefully, I will just say that it involves Mrs Perez. Phil did something that that deeply offended her and Pat and um, you know it's Phil did some of your Phil is alleged to have done correct well, according to Pat, you know, Phil apologized for it and um, and you know, so yes, he He's alleged to have just something. He's alleged to have apologized for it. Um. This is an open secret

in the world of golf. Many people know the details. Um, some claim to have seen evidence of whatever happened. UM. So I think we we'll leave it vague for the listeners to try and connect. Not Live Golf in some aspects has become like the w w E. It's like they have I mean, like the w w E. If you said, hey, two of our best players are name players would have some sort of like fight like that it's great. That's great. I mean, like they are kind of like, it's so wild what is going on on

the live tour, Like it's just crazy. I mean, it's insane, and it's obviously been bubbling up inside of Perez for a while. It's funny that he would make it public, and by making it public but not adding any real details, of course, they're just gonna touch off all kinds of rampant speculation and um, and someone's gonna ask him about it again, So ione's gonna ask Phil about it, Like, you know, the I would say it was not masterful public relations, Like if you want to get off his jesse,

you should have just put it all out there. And now this is gonna have multiple news cycles. But you're right, Ryan, I mean, it's the personalities on that tour are so fascinating. And man, what I love to be in the room when when Pat and uh Phil get together at the

first event next year. You know, obviously they avoid each other socially, it seems, uh, but man, would I love to be at the first live event when when those two are in the room together, especially as you said, it's eventually all the details are eventually going to come out. He's open a cannon worms. Somebody's gonna put it out there,

as you know better than anyone, Like the story. I heard the story way before I started with fire Pit, Like, I mean, it's relatively known, and so it's like it's gonna come out and then they're gonna have to meet and there's only fifty four players. It's not like there's wave different waves or whatever. They're going to see each I mean, I've always described the pg Tour as high school with money. You know, it's this very insular world.

It's very gossipy and live. It's times at times three because it's a third of the size, so it's like everything's more intense. It's a small group of people and they're they're really bound together their their fortunes and their livelihoods. You know, in a way on on the PGA Tour, it was it was every man himself. Live is different.

It's an interconnected network of of golfers who need each other, not only through this team element, but you know, they know that the future of this thing is is not set. Like you know, the Crown Print. If he could just wake up tomorrow and be like this is a bad idea and um, and pull the plug, right, I mean that that's an actual possibility. Um, it's not. It's not

a self subtaining, sustaining entity like the PGA tour. So like these guys are bound together, their professional fortunes are are linked, and so it makes it all that much more intense, and so any little, any little feuding like this takes on more important. So yeah, it's how come we haven't heard anything about the Dustin Johnson Brooks cup good relationship for a while. How are those two getting along?

They're getting along fine. I mean you know they had they had this this dust up Sunday night in in Paris after the Ryder Cup. The story I heard, which is so lame. I don't know even It's like I've tried to fact check it. I've never gotten anywhere but that they were all hanging out and um some and of course you've got you've got the wives slash girlfriends

in the mix. And that's a whole other subtext to live is like if you look at in all of golf, which significant others have the biggest profiles and love the attention the most and are the thirstiest. To use the vernacular, I mean they're all on live golf now. It's just unbelievable. And so you have you Brooks, and you have Jenna, and you have Dustin and Paulina and supposedly this is what I've heard. I can't say it's true, but it

makes me laughing. This is actually it that some group wanted to go go out in the town in Paris and some other group didn't want to and there's an argument and it was something about who was responsible for calling a car and Brooks and Dustin got into it like it was like so prosaic, and um, you know

who knows? And uh, as I said last week about the Reds having their own reality show, uh, it should be filed up directly by just the you know, real Housewives of lip Goff right, like a hundred percent the reads, the reads, Yeah we didn't men talk about just then? Yeah, I mean the personalities over there, Mrs Perez, Uh, Jenna, Justine, Holy Molly, there's a lot of room. There's a lot of personalities. I think. I don't do you even mention this on a podcast. I tweeted it when I was

at the live event in UM Chicago. Um, Jenna drove by in a cart with their dog this black laugh things. His name is Cove. I've seen on social media right like it was so funny. I love dogs, I have I love dogs on the golf courses in the UK, but I've never seen a dog on the tournament grounds like it was just so funny. Um, once saw a very charming thing in a Marriott parking lot Brooks Jenna and dog going for a walk early in the morning before Yeah, I mean you're devoted that dog. Listen probably

others nobody loves her dog with it. I love my dog so well traveled dog. Yeah. Well yeah, when you got on play and it's not a big deal, but um, it's just as to the point of I mean, there's an element of absurdity to all of this. And um, hey, Jake, if you don't put the the uh the little clip that I put up on Twitter of Mrs Perez going this new tour is gonna be I kindact right here,

you've missed out. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing. I mean, anyone who follows Ashley Peret on social knows she's she's not a shrinking violet. So um anyway, it's wild. Is is Amy Michelson up to playing the role of Barbara Nicholas for this new tour. I mean she's well positioned and that she's so beloved and respected. Um, but I have not seen Amy Michelson at any tournament since the November Masters. That's two years ago now. Um, just have not seen her a major championship. You know, there was

a she wasn't. She wasn't at Kioa when Phil won. What about what about the Ryder Cup in uh in Wisconsin? She was there. I guess I that's a different deal. That's such a team thing and and you know they've got to have an actual procession of wives in the opening ceremony. I'm accepting that, but just just a regular whether it's a tour event, a live event, or a major.

I haven't seen her. I'm not saying she hasn't been there, but usually she's very easy to spot and um so she's definitely her tail, her travel or at least her public profile. So I don't know if she wants that role or not. I mean she kind of had it, um even up until Phil Phil left the PGA Tour, but uh, yeah, it is it's so funny in golf, and like I've been reading this, this biography of Greg Norman. Um, they've written in the nineties, and Um, Lauren Laurence st. John.

Maybe that's a great pull by you, Michael. Um, it's a it's a good book actually, and she she did a really nice job. And there's so much Laura Norman in the book and all this talk about she's she's in. She's just there after every round, she's on every plane flight, she's part of every business meeting. And it's just funny how in in golf the wives have such public roles, Like I know Lebron James is married and and it seems like she's a very nice person, but you never

hear anything about her in any context of his professional life. Um, whereas you know when Harold Varner goes to live the headlines where Harold Varner's wife encouraged them to go to live, like it's just a whole thing in golf that's so interesting because they don't really have teammates, right and so um and the effect of Justine reid On on Patrick's career we know has been significant, not just catting for him in the Mondays where we know nothing untoward happened

because we've spoken about this in the past, UM and UM on down the line. So it's just it's amazing the prominence of these wives. They are definitely gifts from the content gods. I agree with that. What is your insight too, whether Greg Norman is going to be moved and whether somebody knew might be coming in, namely Mark King. As of right now, I don't think it's gonna happen.

It doesn't mean it won't happen next year. UM. I think that they're trying to They're trying to hold the line and keep everything cohesive, um going into next season. Like clearly we've talked about this before. Live is way ahead of where any of us thought it would be. His acquisition of players. Now they're trying to bake out the team elements and trying to get better tournament venues. And this is not the moment to blow things up.

But you know, Norman is working really hard on all the details, Like he's involved on a granular level, and the guy's almost seventy years old. I'm not sure how much he wants that grind. Clearly, UM, if there's ever gonna be a reapproach it with the tour, Norman's got to go because he's been he's been such a thorn in the side of the PGA tour and Jay Monahan. Um so I could see a year from now he will declare victory and and he will um, he will exit stage left. And and you know Mark King, the

former tailor Maids are he's been. He's been talked about quite a lot as as a potential successor. Um, you know him very well, Michael. I mean I think he would be he'd be well suited for the job. Whether he wants or not unknown, But um, I think I think that right now that that Norman's on pretty solid footing and he had some public misteps. He said some dumb things early on, but um, they kind of they

kind of put him on ice. Like Greg, Norman took a much lower media profile the second half of the season. That was by design. Um you know he's um you have to give him a lot of credit. I mean, he helped build this thing and um so it's his baby. I don't think he's going anywhere in the short term. The real question about Live is how do they fix

the nibblicks. It's kind of one of my regrets is that I didn't lean into that, like you could have been a bit at every press conference, like so many questions about the teams didn't just like you know, yeah, yeah, it's like, is there strife among the nibulicks? You know? How is the team crabberd camaraderie and the nibblicks? Well, I mean that that's That's a real part of this offseason is what Lives is gonna how they're gonna bake out the team element. And I really think that just

a side note about that. Here how here is how Live has changed the world of golf. And this is not a parody or a joke. There's a guy, his name is Lendon Michaelson Landon Michelson, Uh ironically that has played many tours for a long time, and it is trying to start a new mini tour and it is based off of the team concept and it's basically a

mini tour of Live. It's like a little for person They're trying to get uh investors to purchase little teams, you know, at a very minimal cost for people that basically want to gamble on mini tour golf and uh, it's wild like Live has had so far reaching effects on the game of golf. It is literally reached the mini tour level. Now, it seems like that's that's tough to do because all your players ultimately just want to leave that tour like I want to move up, like

how you can have any cohesion. But I guess that's part of the fun, as you just keep bringing new bodies. And Okay, well we're talking. We barely mention this like half an hour ago. Let's just before we go, let's pour out a little um almond milk or whatever it is for Roger Malpi and Gary Coke. Like they they've been a big part of our lives. They've been in our in our living rooms for many years now, and

NBC is part of ways. I mean, we all love Roger, especially such a character and uh Michael tell tell us a good story about one or both of them. Well, you know, everyone knows when Rodge won the UH when he won the Memorial Tournament. I think in seventy five. I think the first place check was for d K and they really gave you a check back then, not the cardboard thing. Roger went to a bar and lost the check at the bars. Do not know that one out? I mean, I I thought it was apocryphal. I've never

heard the details that that's fantastic. I think it's true. Uh. Uh Roger very very very insightful golf guy. And just a quick note about Gary Coke, very very insightful golf guy. And you know, totally different personalities. But they did their

jobs really well for long time. And uh and I think they you know, like like like Venturi, Uh, they brought a lot of comfort to people for a lot of years because they were just so uh familiar and good at their job and and uh and and and they were a presence uh in the game obviously, and uh and just you know, to those of us have been around the game. I never knew Gary, but but Roger was always you know, I've been a lot of hotels with them in other places or some hotels, and uh,

just a warm, endearing person. And uh. The year that when Tiger won uh the US Open at at Tory Pines that week, particularly spent a lot of time with uh with Roger and when I picked up a lot that week. But one thing I would say in particular was that the Tiger has very very high standards and I could see that he obviously respected Roger and uh uh, that's that's a lot to me about Roger as well. But anyway, they'll be missed. Have a funny Roger Mulvey story.

It's inappropriate, but you know this is for mature audience. Is this podcast anyway? Um? Flying home from the Open Championship one year, I got upgraded to the pointy end of the bird and multi happened to be seated next to me, and so you chit chat or whatever. It's a long flight, and so I was. I was cued up a movie to watch, and I was watching The Devil's Advocate and I could see him. You know, you can kind of feel the person next to you like

watching your screen. It's like a weird thing because you could have watched it himself on his own screen. But whatever, I didn't really care. But I've never seen the movie before. And at some point that Charlie's their own appears on the screen topless, and I just couldn't resist. I looked over at Roger and he's watching, and he gave me this huge grid and like two thumbs up, like it was so great, I've never forgotten. Oh that's amazing. This

is a this isn't a serious question. Do you think that Live had anything to do with them being replaced? Meaning like they are kind of old school, right, I love both of them, as you know, like, but you know, Shane Bacon's out there, Smiley starting to get into it, Colt knowst is making a name for himself, Like, I mean, he's very good, and he's already made a name for himself, but maybe moving up to like a bigger role at NBC.

I don't know that, I'm just throwing out names. Do you think that, like trying to make the game younger that Live has kind of pushed Not that it had any big thing to do, but just like on a smaller scale, do you think that golf is more cognizant of the product they put out? The PGA Tour is more cognizant of the product they put up. Yes, in a word, absolutely, And even before Live was on the scene, you know, the CBS was very aware that that Master's

telecast was getting older and older by the year. And I don't know this for for sure, but I believe it's well north of sixty the average age of the person watching the Master. Uh So you know, now I'm the oldest person in this group, but we all have some attachment to Roger I remember very well as a player, but even if you never knew that part of him, just as a persons in your lives. But there's a lot of people under twenty five just like, who's this guy?

Uh uh so sure, I don't think there's any question. Yeah, in the world where dude perfect is kicking beach balls and amen corner Like, clearly it's on the minds of of the golf decision makers. And you know, there's there's this whole generation that that is getting replaced, and I don't think it's really an indictment of any of them as individuals. I think what you said is bang on. Ryan.

It's like we have to reinvent ourselves a little bit and um there this this is just one more step and it will be I agree, it'll be interesting to see who fills those roles. Um, you know what, I was going to release the listeners, but there's one more thing we have to talk about, which is Ryan, You're you're Alex fit Patrick Scoop and the story that created

a lot of conversation ation on on social media and elsewhere. Um, for the listeners who have missed the story and we will direct them towards it, but give give a brief summary of of what it means and then what the reaction has been for you personally. Just like Monday Qualifiers, we bury it at the end of the podcast, you know,

I mean, jeez, I'm just kidding. Um, I mean the quick summation of the story, and it does get a bit complicated, But p G A tour you is um the rankings for what used to be college seniors, and if you've finished in the top five, you've got corn Ferry status at the end of the year after n t S and then you go to spot in the

um finals of Q School. Alex Fitzpatrick, brother of US Open champion Matt Fitzpatrick, finished sixth and according to I hate to say, according to multiple sources because that it's just awkward, according to multiple sources, and my voice is gone at this point. But um he um. He had lawyers involved. The Fitzpatrick family had lawyers involved, arguing about the ranking one particular event held during COVID in particular,

and the tour UH gave him an exemption. This special exemption the first in PGA twour history that I know of and anyone else I've talked to uh, and he got a spot in final stage and in the grand scheme of things. I think you said it perfectly on in your tweet, like, is a special exemption for Alex Fitzpatrick that big a deal in the golf world. No, but does it set a precedent that the PGA Tour is bending its rules and and not having this hard

line in the sand? Um, it is becoming more and more uh, that players have leverage and they've never had leverage before. Um My, my opinion is had this happened two and a half years ago, pre live the pg twour would have told them to go pound sand and Uh, this year they made some sort of deal. It seems that both have an n d A because the tour

won't say anything and Alex can't say anything. Um. And it seems he has a valid point about the rankings, but it's just, UM, it seems that you know, we're getting closer and closer to hand picking the players that are out on the BG Tour. I mean that's really been happening in sports in general. I mean you look at the NBA, the players have never had more power. They basically create their own teams, and they broke with

their own trades and they formed these super teams. Um. You see it in college sports now with the n I L deals. Um, the power is flowing back to the players. Um. And so maybe golf with its you know, it's old traditions. Was it was time, But it is interesting and it does reveal the specter of Live because you know, if it Alex, while Matthew Fitzpatrick has been honest that he got an offer from Live, whether that was before after the US Open, Alex Lex just Alex

has been too. He said he turned down two million dollars. Yeah, well there you go. I mean this is a kid who he's a walker cup. He's a good player, but he's not a marquee player. But the Chase and Brooks Keptica playbook. You know, it's kind of like you get the little brother on tour and then it becomes that much more attractive for the older brother who's got the credentials. So, um, you know, Alex has value to Live because of his brother and because maybe he'll blossom into a player. Who knows.

But so it it does reveal some larger truths and um, it's another interesting footnote in how things are changing professional golf. What are your thoughts, Michael, Uh, if the tour loses its way, that it's not completely doing things by the book, Uh, then it's not the pH Tour that that well we know one respect. Uh So I think this is, you know, potentially a very serious moment in golf. Ryan and I we're talking about this the other day. Part of me

for not remember the young man's name. But a fourtune year old kid from China played in the Masters and they game running you know, the gentleman's same gun Yang and uh uh and he got a two stroke penalty. The whole world wanted this kid to make the cut, but he got three bad times and they gave him two shot penalty. What are they gonna do not give him? I mean they have nobody ever gets add times and nobody ever gets to penalized for it. But this kid did what was the what was the what were the

Master's officials gonna do ignore their own rules? We clocked him for three bad times. It's in the rule book. We're gonna give it to him. So, I mean, that really is golf, you know, equal opportunity under the law. So if you get away from that, you get away from a golf really is all about what what serious tournament golf is all about. This is also of a piece you know Bubba Watson at public that he's um, you know, to our tour events have been low key

paying appearance fees for a long time. To the players, they're just not called that. It's like the corporate sponsor wants you to come speak at a cocktail party, will pay you three hundred thousand or five thousand dollars for half an hour of your time. I mean, it's essentially an appearance fee. We we It's been known in the game, but Bubba kind of blew the lid off of it.

And I wrote something about it in my mail bag last week, and then I've had two people reach out to me because I had heard I had three dollars a few times as a number. I put that in my column and some guy wrote to me and said, you're he clearly was, you know, looking at his bio and and talking to him. He knows his stuff. He was like one of those guys was in the room.

He said, you gotta add a zero to that. He's like, I know, he's like he's like, I know one superstar asked for four million dollars, So do you wanted something during the week, he said. Another Hall of Famer Icon wanted eight million dollars for his foundation. Um. Now whether these were paid is less clear, but um this this is a thing in golf. It always has But we

know that they pay appearance fees around the world. So the tour has always tried to put itself above it, but it has In reality, they've been doing the same thing. He here's the here's the way. I think that it's different in those standpoints, and yes, I agree, but Q School has always been the place where tour pros don't have any power and and the tour rightfully so uh has had a no like no excuses. Talked to a pro whose mother in law had a stroke and passed

away a week before Q School. He asked for a different site. They said no. A guy this year, uh, you know, missed the deadline for final stage by a couple of hours. They said no. And I understand it because then you opened Pandora's boxes. Alan Shipnik has a bomb ankle and he wants to get moved. And Michael Bamberger has a sore shoulder and his mom is in the hospital. You open yourself up to endless stuff. Q school has always been the place that I was on

with the Pulson's today. Q School has always been the most you know, those guys have a problem with PG two or you as a problem and as a as a concept in general. Now with Live, I understand it. You know you want to keep your young players. But Q School has always been the most democratic part of golf. Right there is no anything you tee it up. Norman Young was the best college player, and that in almost

like he wasn't the next Tiger Woods. And he lost and he didn't get through and that's okay, that's how golf works. And uh and and I think that is the leap that we've made that Q School. Yes, those back deal door deals have been made, but Q school has always been the place where nothing happens. There is no The tour never cared about those players enough to make any deals. There was no deals. It's just like, yeah, go get through first stage. Dude, I don't know what

to tell you. And now it's it's not and and we are sliding quickly down a hill that is going to be a lot of handshake deals and lawyers and all those kind of things. It's just it's it's not a great place. But if the tour is not really careful here, they they will ld the goose because all of corporate America is so way way into golf for a lot of reasons, in one of which is, you know, these fine young men are such you know, principles and show. It doesn't mean to be spoken, it's just said. Uh,

it's a merit based system. Uh. The rule book does whatever can to eliminate ambiguity. To your point, Ryan, you know, there are some areas like metal exemptions and major medical extensions where they've got to read tea leaves and it gets very difficult for the tour and there's always a

lot of fussing about that. But this sort of and even Bubba getting paid to go to a cocktail party, and whether it's three million or three thousand, yeah, it's it's shady and it's in the gray area, but it doesn't really affect two central things here is what actually happens in the tournament. Are the are the scorecards directly accurate? And how do you get into the tournament in the first place? That those two things are the underpinning of what makes the pH A Tour the pH A Tour.

That's why it matters. Access has never been more important. And when you start cluttering that up with agendas and handshake deals, it uh, it gets very messy, very quickly. So I would encourage any of the listeners if you haven't seen Ryan's excellent story, go to um fire Collective

dot com check that out. We also we will make sure that Andy Ogletree's earlier Fire Drill podcast is prominent so you can find that as well, because it is a great It's a great background on on how the professional game is changing, and actually a really interesting kid who has become an unlikely protagonist in this whole golf season. So um, we covered a lot of ground on this podcast. UM. I want to thank all the listeners from making it this far. Do you guys have any final thoughts before

we go? Well, I get to do a podcast with Michael Bamberger his pajamas, That's my final thought. In in the in the group thread, Ryan was gonna call he was gonna call it this his this was his Willis Reed game or his his Jordan Flew game, because he's clearly under the weather, but he powered through um an hour and fifteen minutes of po ding, So it's a heroic effort. You've entered, entered the animals. Articles will be written about this, but they might be by me anyway.

I might my own own article about my own plant heroism. All right, Well, if you've enjoyed this podcast against all odds, we have another podcast offering in our network that's gonna drop here in two days. Michael Bamberger, myself, Jeff Ogilvie. It's called Nita Fourth. As the title might hint, um, we bring on a mystery guest every week. One of

the host is responsible for that. The other two don't know who's coming on, and so at least to some very freewheeling, fund spontaneous conversations, we have a really interesting mix of of guests, some hardcore golf people, some folks who are golf adjacent but just really love the game and have a different perspective. So that will be that will be coming to your ear soon, and we hope you'll check it out because Michael and I have had great time in recording these conversations, as has Jeff Um.

But uh, all right, I can. I can sense the fatigue for my co host, so we're gonna go. This is This has been another Fire Drill podcast. Thank you for listening. We'll do it again. They're usually Sunday evenings because there's some some travel issues. We this one's going up Monday afternoon, but we are committed to doing this every week, so thank you for listening. At the end, that Big played to win, made a fortune with my

ship game. I ran the table and never thought I could fall them, and winter time hit me like a cannon ball. And now I can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head. Can't get John not think what I'm thinking about. Go sit my head, can't get him out trying not to think what I'm thinking about.