Fire Drill 049: The Ephemeral Nature of Winning

So please check them out. They're a great place. UH. They also sent us a bottle of wine at Bandon and we drink um this weekend the fire Drill, we talked Russell Henley and his five wins. A. I didn't know he had five wins, and B we discussed whether it's the quietest five wins and PGA tour history because that is a very small group to be a part of UH and most of his wins are dominant, although this one ended like two or three strokes, usually wins

by seven. We allegedly talk about Patrick Read and allegedly some of the things that he has allegedly done or not done. We also talked about his wife, who allegedly might be on Twitter UH and allegedly might be behind all of the things that are happening and the reading. Uh compound, that's a huge Allegedly, Uh, we talked about dl Fincher Walt. You might not know the name. You might know the name. I have a story about him and why it's important to me. Michael knew him and

was friends with him and had some great stories. There's a Phil and dal story in there. We talked about the Asian tour and a thirty seven dollar check, and we talked about Q school. Uh. And Jake, my producer, didn't even tell me in our recap of what we talked about why we talked about Q school. And that's ridiculous because that's the most important thing we talked about. The Fire Drill is my favorite. I've told you that many times I get to listen to Michael Bamberger and

Allan ship Nick tell great stories. The was no different. Without further ado, here is the three of us talking about golf. Allegedly. I got thoughts in my head. Can't get Joan nothing what I'm thinking about, can't get him out nothing, think what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship Knuck back for another Fire Drill podcast. It is Sunday that means Michael Bamberger and Philadelphia and Ryan French somewhere in the middle of America have joined us. Boys.

Thanks for being here. Delighted Michael, Alan Jake behind the scenes. Good to be here. Michael usually just give us a raised fist or something that the podcast listeners cannot hear, so I'm happy. That's actually real quickly. This is not the greatest way to start the podcast, but real quickly. Jake Muldowney is our producer, huge Packers fan, I'm Alliance fan.

Today didn't go great. Next week, Jake is going to He usually doesn't show his face on this thing, but he's going to next week because I have an amazing Lions hat that I'm going to send him and he's going to be on. Thanks Jake, Love you, buddy. Well, it's it's a competitive sport um being a football fan if you're a member of the fire Pick collective. So let's start in uh in Mexico at Mayacobo because Russell Henley won. I mean, if I'm honest, I haven't thought

about Russell Henley in years, not I at all. Yeah. Yeah, and that's no you know, he was might just send her up for one quick second thirty six whole later at the US Open in San Diego. I think we all remember that. Yeah, that was that was the last time I thought about him, honestly, And but great guy, he's just super dude. I've always enjoyed talking to him. So this is his fifth career PGA Tour win. He's gonna he's now headed to probably thirty or forty million

dollars in career earnings. He's gonna have a very very nice career. Um, I mean, is is Russell Henley the poster boy for just how good these guys are? Is he? This is an indictment of the tour that you can go, you know, you can go years that winning and then all of a sudden he wins again, Like where have you been all this time? Russell? Like what do we make of the fifth career victory for Russell Henley. He's a super talent. You know, I would say he's at

the Willie Wilcox level. And uh, you know, he's got all the shots. He's not very long. But I've I've watched him play. I've always enjoyed watching him play. He's a great talker and and you guys probably know the story where he q himself when he was playing with a nonconforming ball? Was this the same tournament? Think it might have been. Do you guys happen to know? Was that in Mexico? But anyway, it was one of those

situations not to get into all the details. Um, but he was the only person who could have possibly known that he switched golf ball brands from a conforming to a nonconforming that happened to be in his bag and he used it and uh, and he missed the cut. And what he said really honestly at the time was he was more afraid of how he would feel if he cheated and stayed in the tournament. He was afraid at what the long term repercussions would be for his mind.

He's a super interesting guy and I'm couldn't be happy for him, and he's a he's a major talent. And yes, it's your point. I think it does. I think Russell Henley's occasional appearance, uh and his ability to contend just does show you another example of how incredibly deep the PHA tour fields are. Yeah, I mean I remember his first win, um kind of was like twelve years ago now in Hawaii, you know, he went twenty four under,

was the second lowest score in PG Tour history. Um, and it was like wow, when he was a rookie, He's like, this guy is going to be a world beater. And um, you know, I think that golf course favors a certain kind of finesse player and you know, maybe that it was just one of those things. But UM, I just I'll never forget when he came out of box like that, you know, basically the start of his rookie year. Um. So I'm sure Russell Henley is probably

content with with his career. But I've always I've always kind of remembered that performance and thought, well, where's Russell Henley? Or I haven't thought of Russell Henley? But I don't know, Ryan, what what's your take on on on what it means when when these guys just pop up and and snatch a victory and then disappear for a while. Uh. I mean, I think it makes me think two things. I just

looked it up. But Ricky Fowler has five wins right A. It makes me think what marketing means, right Like, I don't know if that's just personality or agent or a combination of all of those things or being in contention and majors or whatever, but they have the same amount of things. And it also makes me think and and this is me included in this group that we underappreciate a lot of players on the PGA Tour, and Russell Henley would be amongst them. I mean, five wins is

in the scheme of things. You know, how long the tour has been around, and how many players have five or more wins. It's miniscule. And uh but I mean again, this is not a shot at Russell. It's just like all of a sudden, you don't really think about him for a year or two years or whatever or eight months and then all of a sudden, boom he wins again. I mean it is the quietest five wins, one of the quietest five wins that I know of. Who will win next on the PGA Tour Between Russell Henley, Jonathan

Bird and Rick Fowler? I mean, well, I think Jonathan Bird's probably, I mean he's been knocking around. I don't know, you can never guy, He's just like he's gonna be sixty four and you can be like out there on the tour somehow, Um, Jonathan Jonathan Bird mad respect to that guy has he pushes his own push cart at corn Ferry Monday's I mean wild. I mean I've tweeted about him many times. He's been super super nice to me.

Great dude, and uh and um, I just can't believe that a man who has that many PGA tour wins pushes his own card at the at a corn Ferry event. But John Birton, he has five tour wins. Is that why you're going this direction? Michael, Yes, yeah. I mean for you to say, Ryan, when you say it's a minuscule amount, I mean it's actually somewhat substantial. I mean there's there's a lot of guys who know. I mean, I'm a miniscule amount of people have that many wins.

I see I misunderstood. Yeah, you know. And it's just like we and this is me included all of us. I'm not talking just the three people in this room. It's like we kind of underappreciate Russell Henley. Right we're talking before. It's like, I mean, oh, he's got five wins. I was like, he's asked five wins. It's like, I mean, and that is I mean, he is in a very very very select group of PGA twour players. Well, and not only that, I mean he led by six strokes

through fifty four holes. That's hard to do. I mean that that is that is a dominant before does every time he wins. Yeah, I mean you can go deep and that's I guess my frustration is like, if if you're good enough to lap the field like that, um, how can you can't do it more often? I mean that that's that's my big question. And it's not specific

to Russell Henley. It's it's a lot of these guys like, if you're good enough to to go that deep and completely blow away the field in over fifty or four holes, you know, shouldn't be able to win in two or three times a year. I use a Graham to let uh and we're Michael and I. We've talked about a lot of stuff, but we talked about Graham to let also.

I use a quote of his um a lot and he says, you know, if you're not a top player in the world, for most guys like myself or in this case Russell Henley, like we have our best stuff maybe five times a year, and you know, if we don't take advantage of it. We're not gonna win that year because our B game and C game is not good enough to win on the PGA tour. So I mean, maybe he just falls into that. But his A game

is ridiculous, you know. I think it was David's Love who said, you know, and I've heard it from a few people since, like of a tour players earnings are

gonna come in their starts. Like it's kind of what you're saying, Ryan, Like the these guys they have a handful of hot weeks and that that makes the whole season, And um, I don't know that they're so optimized if they want to be with the track man and a sports psychologist and the nutritionist and the trainer, Like I guess I would just expect a little more consistency week to week. I mean, like look at Steph Curry. You know, he his numbers came in and game out are almost identical,

and he's playing against different teams every night. They're designed to stop him, but he kind of maintains a very consistent performance. Obviously, he's one of the greatest players of all time, so maybe that's not a fair comparison, But like you know there's Uh, that's that's my my question. And maybe that's the ephemeral nature of sports, and golf is hold on ephemeral word of the day. What does ephemeral made experious like it's that's I mean, that's the

great mystery of sports. That's why some guys can do in some camp. Michael, what are your thoughts on this? Well, you know, I think Russell Henley, if he were on the program right now, tell us that he is a head case. Uh So, Alan, everything you're describing is great if you're mentally tiger and you can just bring it every time. If you don't have it, you'll summon something else.

And Russell Henley, by his own admission, isn't built for that he had There's a lot of things that go crazy weird in Russell Henley's mind, So I don't think I just don't think he's capable of it. One to this conversation leads to something that I've thought about, but not really this specifically ever before. Before. Uh. Given what you just said about the twenty numbers, it's amazing that

the golfers don't tank like the tennis players. In other words, they grind and grinding, grinding, grind to make cuts and everything else. And based on eight D twenty, I'm not really sure why they do, but they do do, and it's interesting. Yeah, well, I mean there's a few reasons. I guess sometimes you don't know which is your is your weak you know, there's a million examples of guys barely make the cut by one stroke and then they go really deep on the weekend and they finished T

three and that's what that's one of their great weeks. So, I mean it's things things can click with with one swinger, one put. So I think that's the answer Michael is they don't quite know when it's coming. But to be fair, and Michael knows as he's Caddy. But when you're like ttight and you have no real chance of moving on Sunday, it's kind of a death march is too strong of

a word. But it's not a lot of fun at a PGA tour event, uh inside the ropes when you're like T forty eight on a Sunday, you know, it's kind of like very business like let's go home type thing, you know. Yeah, but I mean, like if you just going back to the Maya Cooba leaderboard. Scottie Shuffler was in thirty fifth place going into Sunday. He shot sixty two. He's tied for third. That's FedEx Cup points, that's Ryder Cup points, that's World Ranking points. I mean, there's always

it gives you something. It gives us something to work on and look forward to your next time. Ryan. Definitely, I've seen it, and and we we all know that it's true. But I think it's more common that they're gonna like, well, let's see if I can find something here. Yes, they're definitely some news where they just grind it out and get home, but there are as some news that they that they don't. Michael and I mean Alan I

think said it last week. I mean, Shamus Power is one of the most consistent players in the world right now. That dude is going to be on the Ryder Cup team. Mike God, every time he's ease it up, he's in he's in contention. It's funny how his his whole, his

whole trajectory has really accelerated. And I mean that Saturday's sixty three was nuts, right, Yeah, he had an ace, he had a whole out um, he had an eagle like he's he's not only as he consistent, but he's he's kind of explosive, Like the guy's got another gear. It's it's impressive to see a young player put it together the way he has. I agree he's making himself a lock for for Rome. Which and as a reminder, I said it last week, but I'll say it again.

Eighteen months ago I saw him on the range at a Monday Cute and he was like, I just want to get a few more starts so I get a year added to my pension. Like he was in a like bad place, like, oh, I'm gonna get fifteen starts, I'll go back to Q School, get good corn ferry status and starts this whole process again. And here we are. I mean, it's wild. It's pretty wild, alright. So Maya Cobe is where a lot of golf fans um are paying attention. But for you, Ryan, I know the big

events is Q School. It's happening right now. It finishes on Monday, um when this podcast will drop, so we don't have we don't have the finished results, but set up some of the intrigue that that's happening in at Q School. I will hijack the rest of this podcast because I swear I love this. Uh okay, real quick. Chan Kim is leading UH, and it would be very interesting to see. He's obviously going to get his card. He's four strokes ahead and you have to finish in

the top forty to get guaranteed starts. But Jan Kim had a very good careators on the state and just hasn't been able to break through. Has played well though in a few majors. I think it was like twenty five or something in the p J champ Mean Ship last year, something like that. But I think he has seven wins in Japan and was in the top hundred in the world at one time, and I think he's like one now. But anyway he is. He has four strokes ahead, so it'll be very interesting to see. But

I mean, Chris got her up is up there. Former ncy A champion, UH, he's second Chase Seifert UH a veteran UH. Jared so Watta, here's a great story at Q school and then I'll let you guys get back to talking. Jared Sawatta played at eight University Hawaii and never had a scoring average better than seventy eight. Like he should not have even teed it up in a pro event. I mean, no one looked at his game

and thought, you know what, you should go play professionally. Uh. And for eleven years he uh like just grinded away and he has an amazing record that you guys probably don't know. But he's Monday qualified for the Sony in Sony opened five times um, which is ridiculous. But he's gonna get his card. I mean, he's within he's well up the leaderboard, and that is insane that someone who average basically eighty at college is going to play on the second best tour in the United States. I love,

I love to hear that. What I mean, we should we should at least acknowledge. Um. The legend Spencer Levine, who going into the last round is he's tied for fifteen. Um. You know, he went he went low on the first round. He's kind of hanging out with a couple of seventy ones. He's he's dropping a little bit, but he's still there. I mean, well, right, let me ask you this, because Levi pops up on Twitter and and people kind of why do we love this guy? I mean, for the

fans who aren't totally tuned into the cults here. Yeah, I mean he is just such an honest dude. Uh. I mean I think most people was at the memorial Guys Michael Memorial when he was shaking in the in the thing, and yeah, I mean he just wears his heart on his sleeve. He swears he's used to be a smoker. He hasn't smoked a long time, but he was one of the last guys who smoked regularly on the course. Yeah, and I mean I think he just he does not. I just think he like everybody can

relate to him in some sense. He's just a regular dude, nervous, ticky. Now he has a hockey, he does the happy Gilmore uh putting stroke, you know. I mean it's ridiculous. It's it's ridiculous and we all love him for it. Now. Really, a very important sidebar of him getting back to tour is he's two cuts uh short of the two made cuts short of getting his full pension on the PGA tour. So that dude is very motivated to get back to

the tour. Don't really have to achieve a hundred and fifty made cuts, and he has a hundred I mean, a hundred is a big number. And to me, it's kind of wild that it's based I would think it'd be based on starts as opposed to made cuts. I think there's two ways that you can do it, I think, but I'm not positive about that. Yeah, we should dig into that because that that's I know, the maid cuts has always loomed large. And it seems like, you know, at IBM, it's like how many years did you work?

It's not how many computers did you sell? Like you know, you were there, you were punching the clock. You were part of the show. And and to Peggett to actually having him to perform in a certain way, maybe it's fair. Maybe it's a meritocracy. I don't know, but um as a PG tour slides more and more to socialism. Just given out half a million dollars to anyone who wants it. It's like it's an interesting it's an interesting wrinkle. Um, Michael,

your favorite Spencer Levine story. No, I just I've enjoyed watching him. You know, he was he ran really hot. He he smoked those servites right down to the nub. And uh, I'm glad he quit smoking. It's a nasty habit, but it was kind of I think you can still smoke on the course because I know I've seeing John Daily do it, and maybe they just know how to Shan Kim Jan Kim is a big vapor. Uh huh okay, real quick on um. A guy that I posted about yesterday.

His name is Chris. Chris, I'll go, I don't know, I don't know how to say his last name. But he went bogey free except for one hole he shot a seventy four. He went bogey free and shot seventy four with a thirteen thirteen. Uh. That means he played the other holes six under, played seventeen holes six under, and shot seventy four. When it first posted, it was posted as a seventeen because the poor live score is this guy was pepper ring balls out of bounce, and

I mean pepper ring balls out abound. The live score had no idea what had happened. Uh. Evidently pop he peppered four oh b before getting one in play. Well that was remember when when Kevin Na made his fourteen at the Texas Open and they had to have a pow wow to replay all the strokes because he lost track of it. It was happening so fast, and he was he was slashing away in the forest. His caddy was rattled like they had to watch the tape, I think to make sure they got it right. So I

pitied the score. But yeah, well, sometimes in a pro event when it gets a little sideways in the and the live score has a lot of stress, I mean we can all sense the stress of like what ball is that? What the and that is obviously like very rarely it's more than one ball, you know. Uh yeah, I mean this dude fired six off the tee. The fifth one happened to be in bounds. Evidently that dude fired six balls, and that live score just sweating bullets.

I mean, there is no way you're not He marked it down as a seventeen, and what's close it was a thirteen. It's it's hard to keep track after a while. We've all been there. Um. But you know, on on the other end of a really famous one, uh. I think the ten that Woods made on twelve at Augusta. I think the area was defending and then he went

from five under from there to the house. I think that I put that in, you know, the Pantheon of Woods activity he sets up there For me, Michael is talking about is the gumption to keep going, oh yeah, which is what your guy did. He kept going, Oh my god, a ridiculous at Q School. I mean, the most important week of your career in some respects right up until this point, the most important, uh event of your week, and you make a thirteen easily could go

very sideways coming in right like very sideways. He played two under is awesome. It's ridiculous. He didn't play great today, but he has an outside chance if he plays really well tomorrow to get in the top forty and get guaranteed starts. If he does that with a thirteen on the card, the story of Q School not even it's

not even close. That's that's a legendary Um all right, So I think we should acknowledge at this point in the podcast were among the few people in the golf media who have not been sued by Patrick Read yet. Um you know this is this is a dicey place to go if we're we're trying to stay out of it. Well, I mean, it's it was a it was a big part of the weekend golf. So he refiled his lawsuit. Um, you know he obviously he he was at he filed

against Brandle Shamblee. But now he's added Aimon Lynch was okay Amon and loves to he he's a he's a pot st. He said some inflammatory things. I guess you could maybe like, Okay, well it's not he's not gonna win, but he might have he might have some beef there. But then he added Doug Ferguson, who we all of the ap We all know Doug just plays it down the middle all the time. I mean, he's the Fred Funk of golf reporters. Like he's just the middle of

the middle. He's on the sprinkler line. It's hard to imagine he said anything that would that would be actionable. And then who's the nicest person in the world, and definitely in the golf it's obviously Damon Hack right, So Damon got swept up into it. Shane Bacon um like Shane Ryan. Yeah, I mean Shane wrote a whole book

about it. But yeah, I mean, so Shane, you know, he in some ways he kind of broke the story of Patrick Reid's um, you know, in his book, and which of course got excerpted and cited many places, you know, talking about Patrick Read's misadventures in college and and beyond, and so Alan quick consruption. Did did did not Ian O'Connor have that first? I'm not sure if Ian had it first. I feel like it was Shane in his books Slaying the Tiger. I mean, there's there's been different

parts of the story. I mean Ian had the parents at one point, but you know, Shane got all the Georgia teammates. Really yeah, because the Augusta State teammates and everything the Augusta State teammates that. I mean, I would say Ian may have had it a little bit, but Shane advanced it and and so very good book. By the way, not saying it's true or it's not true. It's true. It's probably true, but it's wild. I mean, I don't mean, you know, the First Amendment is such

a powerful tool. It's very hard to win a libel lawsuit. I would assume that that Read and his lawyer understand that. But I guess they're trying to have some chilling effect and this guy's lives. What is the point of this? What is the point? It's not to win money because they know they can't win, because you gotta pay for lawyers, and you started making people nervous and uh, no one wants to get sued. We've all, you know, been been

close to it, and it's uh, it's unsettling. So I mean, he's even even when we had when Alan and I had Jeff Tubanan were and he was saying, there's a legal term for for this, it's a joke. Uh, it's still a lawsuit. You still require, it's still gonna so you're gonna need a lawyer. I would like to say this about Patrick Reed, if I may, Patrick Reed is the kindest, just warmest, most being I've ever known in

my life. And I would like to add that I have never outwardly questioned whether he may or may not have skirted the rules at a Monday qualifier. I don't believe that. I mean hypothetically, can you cheat at a Monday qualifier? Yes, it's relatively easy. There's no fans, there's no rules officials, there's hardly any caddies. Could you Yes? Did he definitely not? The man is upstanding citizen. It's not even close, not even a thought in my mind. Did he hit it over in the woods and find

one magically? No? No, he just found his well, man, Well, I mean the thing is, when we keep adding more and more people to the lawsuit, it gets to be ridiculous. Like I mean, Brandal definitely had some very strong takes now, which is jobbed offered opinion. Opinion is almost always protected speech. So but that would that could have been, that could have been spite see it in in a fun deconstruction. But when when you when you add the entire press room to the lawsuit, it's kind of like, what are

we doing here? So I don't know why doesn't he add Ricky Fowler to it while he's at it? Because at the Albany event, Uh, if you guys remember this, and you probably do, Ricky Fowler was already in the house and he watched a replay of it of you know, when he grounded his club or you don't scraped away the sand before where he allegedly scraped away the sad before playing Uh that show. Well, I'm we're American, correct her mat Uh Larry Larry Cusman. We said allegedly, Okay,

thank you continue. Do you guys remember what Follower said? He looked at like, what's even the discussion? You're obviously it's so obvious what he did. Uh wait, a lot of people because Ricky Fowler knows, they all know, they out well and and Cam Smith had had some strong things to say, you know, a fellow live golfer. Now, so, um, it's it's for iculous. But as you say, Michael, I mean, for the these are our colleagues. They have to defend it, they have to get a lawyer. That um, their parent

companies are part of the lawsuits. So they're they're sweating it. And it does create clearly, um, some energy around it, which is I mean, we always praise Patrick Reed lavishly. This podcast is hardly the first time this speak of it we speak. You can see how people might, um, it might affect their behavior. I think that's ultimately what they're trying to accomplish here, is that when next time someone wants to drag up Patrick Reads. I've said this before.

I don't know how the Reids don't have a reality show, but we need it, and we need it now, Okay, because we see public and we're like, whoa, Okay, imagine what is happening. We've all seen their house. Okay, we've all taken the pictures of the house and about sums it up when you're when you're like, hey, we're gonna check your board everything and make it super dark goth, I mean wild, wild house. So whoever's listening think that's enough.

TV executive, please please give the reads. When we speak of the big three, the golfer, his wife, and the brother in law, how do you guys rank the big three? For like, if you could give truth serum to only one of them, who would you want it to? The wife? The wife's I mean Justine. Well, of course we don't know it to be true that she's running the use golf a legend had running it appears to be running it,

but again we have no conclusive treef for that. All of this, all of this says that the Reds need a reality show. Okay, you know who runs the Twitter account. We'd see him angrily tweeting at two am. We need it all And what I was gonna say is that Twitter handle moves the needle like very few things in golf. When Justine logs on or I'm sorry not Justine. Whoever is running that that handle? We don't know it to be Justine, but we think it is, but we can't

prove it. We don't know for sure, but we like it's justine. When that person whoever it is, logs on like golf, Twitter blows up, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Man, say this probably on the subject, and I think you will agree. Um. I want to stand in praise of our close personal friend Mark Steinberg, who did not sue us when we when we named a a an agent to a golfer named Tree Tremont and then a book called The Swinger Finky Finkelstein, and uh, I just think

that shows what a man he is. And I appreciate it. Mark. Thank you. We're living in an alternate reality right now. It's actually kind of fun. Oh oh yeah, Oh no, that's right. We're supposed to say in the main road here all right, Um, this is this is a more serious question. How about you with lawyers when you're writing the film book? What what kind of things can you talk about about where things got Harry? Yeah, I mean

the Simn's user lawyers were awesome. They basically, you know, we had a lot of conversations asking me about you know, sourcing and how how confident I else in in the information? And they pretty much always came down on my side. Um, and there was you know, a little bit of phrasing they wanted a massage, which was fine because it didn't really change the actual meaning of it. But um, they they they are they're used to these fights and this

is what these lawyers do for a living. And while their their job theorectly is to protect the publisher, Um, they're in it because they want to. They want to take care of the writers. I mean, they're they're not. UM, I don't see them as as corporate stooges. Like they're there because they care about the First Amendment. They care about the written word, they believe in in um is the big part of it, a legal side as you go through it. I mean there's like I mean proof

reading obviously and those kind of editing. But absolutely, and they they read it very carefully because you know that's there and I already have an instinctive understand ending of it. But and I flagged a couple of things, and uh, it went back and forth, but there was there was not one thing that I wanted for the book that they said to take out. And there's a couple of things that they we talked over extensively and they gave their their go ahead to put in the book, and

I elected not too for my own reasons. Um, you know, a couple of things that would have been dicey and we would have had to rely on unnamed sources, and I just didn't want to go that route. But you know, some very explosive material like after talking to where they said yeah approved, So I was. I was impressed. Phil is very well lawyered, as you know, better than most, um. But is he litigious? Has he gone down that road

at all? He has this lawyer, Glenn Cohen, whom back in the days of the Phil rumors, some of which I had discussed in a sober manner in my book. They went out they tried to find these anonymous internet trolls and actually did a good job of it. Um. And they and they were able to shut down some of these They were just individuals and they basically just somehow got their identity from the servers and they were able to threaten them and make them go away, which

was their ultimate goal. Um. But no that they did file a lawsuit in in in Canadian court, and that was that was trying trying to unmask one of one of these anonymous posters and they succeeded in doing that. But that's really been the extent of it. And um, you know I did. I talked, so I talked to Cohen extensively, and then Phil had another lawyer from from San Diego who got involved and we had some some conversations.

So yeah, he's definitely lawyered up. But um, you know, I especially the guy at San Diego was pretty sophisticated. I mean he seemed to understand like, Okay, we can't really win a First Amendment case, so let me just try and and influence things on the margins. But um, you know, it was a little good cop bad cop

between two different lawyers. But uh no, I mean they given everything that's around the Nicholson's over the decades, Um, they have not elected to go to the courts, which is interesting of course when you do that, as Patrick Reid's gonna find out, the other side gets to do. You know, they get to ask the questions too, and you're under oath. So now you know, I think ultimately

in Phil's case, it's not worth the risk of discovery. Like, um, you know, if if he wants to challenge people, then he's gonna get challenged, and I think he knows there's some things I don't want to come to light. Patrick Reed may find out the same thing. Um, there's there's a term for this, um you know, funk around and

find out, and that may happen to Patrick Reid. You know this is basically he's he's kind of trying to hold seventy footers right, and he might he might run a few off the green to use a golf metaphor, like he's he's gonna there's gonna be some blowback to this when when you know, like because not only did he he sue the individuals, he also sued the parent companies.

And they have resources and they have people have been doing this along time, so they're they're gonna now go after him, and he may regret going down this road. I was once with Trump at the West Palm Beach course, uh and the Golf Digest ranking had just come out, and of course you want to be in the top hundred.

And as he told the story that he was, he was number he was number hundred one on the list, and uh so he started writing his own brief, his own legal brief about why golf Digests had screwed him over, and of course he would just submit that to his lawer and have this, have the lawyer files something a totally completely frivolous act that would go nowhere. But the requires golf digests to defend its process. How do we make the list and go through a whole thing that

nobody wants to waste their time doing. Uh so, yeah, well, for Trump it's a pr exercise, right, So, like he just he's trying to he's trying to defend his golf course. And for him, that was worth paying the lawyer thousand dollars and fees or maybe not paying him. You know Trump's history of not paying his lawyers. But um, you know, Patrick Reid's getting a lot of billable hours, and maybe he thinks that that somehow he's he's going to launder

his reputation here. But I think it's more about trying to have this That might be the wildest part of this, right, Like that's the only reason that you do this. You know, for the most part it's going to be hard, too, almost impossible to win. He must think that this is going to like prove that he's just this upstanding person and that is the wildest take of all of this, right, Like he's at home thinking like, man, really I've done it. Now him and Justine are like, yeah, look at what

we've done. We're gonna get everybody on her side. Like that is the craziest part of all of this, right, Like that they think that this is somehow like fixing a reputation, like this is making it worse. The craziest part is it shows you how completely out of whack all the golf is now. I mean, like this has become a routie and thing that Patrick reread is suing somebody for something, you know, and uh, I don't know. Golf used to be a place. There's a lot of

lawyers getting very wealthy on golf this year, very wealthy. Right, people used to just settle their differences, uh quietly. It was just, you know, it's just another indication of what turmoil the game is in the fact that these suits are happening in the first place. And uh, you know, a more aggressive kind of reporting of golf is certainly part of it. Speaking of that, if I'm ay Allen, unless you tell me this is not appropriate thing to

bring up. But you know, these Bubba Watson comments about of course we got an endorsement when he got you know, if we got money for showing up at cocktail parties and all the rest. Um. That was something like everybody seemed to know forever. Nobody ever really wrote about it. Uh, and now it's out there. And of course it's out

there because Bubb is not on the PGA Tour. He's probably never going to play the PGA Tour againting So for you know, the Masters and a couple of other things, uh things, it's just you know, I put them probably the same categories Patrick It. It's like there were all these old systems in place, for good or for bad. You can definitely argue with both ways, and they're crumbling. Yeah. One, it's interesting that that read is only filed these lawsuits since he joined Live Golf, and we know that Live

is fueled by Saudi money and and grievance. Those are the two rocket fuels, right and and so um I guess and the when he's on the PGA Tori, you're still trying to play nice and now he's like, that's screw it. You know, I'm I've gone I've gone to the dark side, So might as well just might as just let it rip. But you know, in Reed's case, Doug Ferguson and Aimon Lynch and Damon Hack and Brando simply are going to be reporting on and talking about

his career for the next ten or fifteen years. Like, would you really, on just a very basic level, do you want to the people who are going to help assign your legacy on some level, do you want to make all the mad at you. It doesn't seem like it's not. It's the opposite a charm offensive um, but whatever. There's a zero point zero chance that he's going to find anything that Doug Ferguson did that was with malice. Uh, it will be unlikely you can find anything that Doug

Ferguson road that's even inaccurate. But but if it's you know, for those who don't know that, if it's inaccurate but not with malice, it wasn't will if you weren't wilfully trying to defame the person or slander the person, or hurt the person in some way, you know, that's what constitutes liabel. There's a zero point zero chance that Doug Ferguson would be capable of it. He's just too well trained to professional. I mean I would tell that the

entire group, but Doug I know best. Yeah, yeah, Shan Shane Ryan said in the tweet that you know Hunt, he said, I can't say anything about it about a stand behind my reporting, so he's obviously confident. Well, and of course it's all gonna get dressed up again. So here we go. Like, you know, people haven't thought about Shane's book in a long time. Right now, it's gonna be everywhere he put the link. I mean, smart of him, because it's a good book too. Is he put the

link in his tweet. He's like, hey, I can't talk about it. If you'd like to read about it, that's so great. And it's kind of like a question that hangs over live golf, like, you know, are they actually sports watching because most golf fans have never really thought about the farious influence of Saudi Arabia on our our lives and our geopolitics. Right it just wasn't something that

the average golf fan really thought about. Now I've talked about every day, every week, every podcast, Like in some ways they've called more attention to themselves and their misdeeds, Like what is the opposite of sports watching, it's like, and that's that's what reads doing with this lawsuit, and and it's changed the attitude because back to Michael's point

about what Bubba said, I've heard that. I assume you guys have heard that way more than I that you know, so and so player doesn't want to play in the three m and the PGA Tour can't do appearance fees. So some sponsor pays so and so three thousand dollars to show up at a cocktail party. And it's relatively regularly happening. Uh and so skirt the rules of an in parance fee and blah blah blah, Like that is huge news, and it has become so like they've like

this negativity towards them. That kind of was like, oh, there's Babba crying again. Like it wasn't really you know, it was like, that is what's happening on the PGA Tour, Like that is happening. But the negativity of these things is just not It's getting kind of like tiresome at that at some point, you know, like that should have been a huge story in my opinion, I mean it is. What's your impression, what why would Bubba go down that road,

what's to be gained. It's und you see this from a lot of the live guys, and like I've had a lot of them tell me a lot of things about Rory McElroy and his finances and his ties to the tour because they're they're tired of Rory being being held up as a savior and and this guy who's doing it all for the good of the game, where you know, and the things they've told me, you've checked out.

It's like pH has made a lot of money for Rory and so and and you know, one of the live guys said he's bought and sold more than any of us. But people just don't know about it. And so this will be in my forthcoming book by the way. But so it's like I don't have a link yet, Shane. Sorry, but you know there's no Tappy, Yeah that's right. Um so yeah, I mean, the the lip guys are tired of being picked on, right, there's there's they very well cultivated this this victimhood and so there it's just a

chance to like fire back. And but yeah, I mean there's tournaments, who are you have people saying negative things about Rory McElroy. Yes, the live guys know that Rory McElroy is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being. I behind Patrick read, second behind Petrie Read. You know, it starts at the top with with Greg Norman. We know that that, um, he's a he's a vengeful personality and um that's trickled down to the entire organization. So

there the gloves are off. I mean we've seen that all year long, and it's just it's all is being revealed and um, so yeah, I mean what Bubba said it was certainly factual. I mean there's there's tournaments where it's known like, uh yeah, just go when we fly on your jet, just go fill it up down there, you know, put in jet fuel and you know, just

put on the tournament tab. You know, there's there's all kinds of little things like that that that have been done to entice players and um, and it's it's it's not even really an open seeker. It's just a known thing in the Gulf world. But um, I don't I don't know why it wasn't discussed, but you know, Bubba's sort of torn the band aid off, and there's there's more reporting to do there for sure. Okay, quickly, I

no one wanted to talk about the Asian Tour. We brought up what we wanted to talk about, and these guys were senior tour. We're Bernhard Langer at I mean my tweet, My tweet yesterday was at a hundred and three, Bernhard Langer, it is probably gonna win the Rails Swap Cup. The man does not age, He does not age. It's it's incredible, actually actually truly is incredible. It's no. Swing does not need to be pretty to be effective, because the swing is not pretty. It is effective the stroke,

but he gets now to be fair. Underneath my tweet, there was some very angry people about the fact that he anchors. I mean, he's like, you could play until a hundred and three if he's If he keeps anchoring, they think that his hand is touching his chest when he's they're just angry. I mean, I'm sure that's done in tournament golf in various places, but Longer seems like such a black and white personality. I don't believe that he would agree. I really agree. I agree it is

ridiculous that he won again. Ridiculous it's ridiculous. And Steve Alker, how about making double on the lose a million dollars, right, And that's real money for a guy like that, You know, a million dollars some of these dudes. But that's real money. That's real money. So let's okay, how do you say his last name? Jazz? J Okay? Okay, quick story about Jazz. I am middle of COVID. My wife and I, for some reason, decide that we drive down to my brother's

house in Florida as a vacation home in Florida. We made the twenty hour trip from Chicago and got there. This is like full blown middle of COVID, like everything shut down. West Florida Tour had just started back up, so and they were like an hour down the road from my brother's house. I get in the car. I drive to the West Florida tournament. Now I knew that Daniel Chopra, PJ Tour winner, multi time PJ Tour winner

played in West Florida event. He pulls up in his Lamborghini and out jumps Jazz and Jazz at the time was thirty six player in the entire world, but didn't have any place to play the Asian Tour shut down and uh played West Florida Tournament in that event finished like I'm just gonna make this up. I don't know what it was to eleven or something and got a check for thirty seven dollars and thirteen cents. And it

makes my day. It just makes my day that a man who's thirty six in the world got a check for thirty seven dollars, Like, what does he do with it? Did Jazz like cash the thirty seven dollar check? Yes? Or no? Of course? Well that was wasn't it? Mad? No? What was the grading Carter magazine, Michael, that um spy spy magazine they did. They had this bit going for a long time where they sent celebrities checks and increasingly

small amounts. You would start with eighteen and you get down to twelve, and then you could see if they cashed it. And they kept trying who cast it and most of them didn't at all, or they stopped after the first one. The one guy who cashed every single check was Donald Trump. This was decades ago, but it's

a famous bit. Oh God, that's amazing. I mean, it just made like there was no one on the course and it was jet and I honestly I think he was thirty five or thirty six at the time, and uh like playing in a cart not a single fan around, and he finished like T eleven or something like that and got a check withut seven buck. Daniel Choper rocking up in a Lamborghini. I mean, Daniel is he had

had a nice career, but thank you Tiger. Well right, I didn't say the circles back to the Russell Henley conversation, like, I mean, Daniel chopra very good golfer, had a nice little career, but travit Lamborghini's wild here is now this is important from the standpoint of, uh what this leaderboard? Head do it? David puig on it finished third, Scott Vincent lift player, Uh, Barton Rat who's made a all of a sudden playing well in Asia, finished fifth, Eric

Compton finished ninth, Chase kepto eleventh. I mean it is like a live I mean, what a what a leaderboard? This was? Right? Well, I mean yeah, as a lot of those names are playing live golf, and I mean we've talked about in previous podcasts, but the Asian Tour is a very important part of the vision for live as a feeder system, as a landing spot for guys who get relegated, UM as a way to develop their

their their next generational players. So I think it's only going to accelerate their everyday Asian Tour events are gonna just get better and better. And when it surpasses the European Tour, it seems like it's only a question to win. As far as strength of fields and will, ranking points and money and and those things. It's um, you know, the balance of power is definitely shifting. What's to prevent the Asian Tour from staging those tournaments in the United

States and other places. They're they're having Acute school in the US, Michael, this year, They're coming. They're coming, you know. Yeah, I mean, as the PGA Tour keeps it expanding and playing overseas like it, I don't. I think I think it's more like a gentleman's agreement. And as we were saying earlier in this podcast, like all that stuffs out the window. Now it's it's brass knuckles times. So yeah,

there's no anything. But yeah, I mean, you know, Live Golf's playing most of their events over here, so maybe maybe the Asian to attack if you want to. Just for fun, I do want to let the listeners know that here the fire Pit Collective, we are expanding our podcast network, and you know we already have. We have the fire Pit Podcast, which is really Matchell's baby, and those are kind of narrative and long form. We have Grassroots with Lasarsias and John Nichols and they get into

the culture. Ryan has his podcast which is obviously focused more on on the grinders and the dreamers. We have these fire Drills, which are big events, breaking news and and kind of now the weekly ebb and flow of what's happening in golf. But we were delighted to announce that we're gonna a new one called Need a Fourth and it's it's a bamburger myself and a guy named

Jeff Ogilvie and we take turns inviting guests. Um, one person organizes a guest, the other two co hosts do not know who that person is until they show up on their screen here. And yes, if if you're a fan of the SmartLess podcast, and most of us are, we shamelessly stole their idea. But it's just so much fun and so um we're gonna start rolling those out this this coming Thursday and they'll they'll be weekly for a while and hoping to get people excited about it.

We we've already taped a bunch of them now and the guests are a plus. And um, it's you know and those of us who who have listened there to those of you have listened to the fire drills and even from Michael and I you know, with Ogilvie such a great talker and thinker, and so it's a delight to happen as part of this and he is amazing. Uh, they're really really fun. They're really fun. So we we'll be doing a little promotion on on the various socials

throughout this week to remind folks. But we're excited about that. And we've been talking about this and working on it for a while, so it's gonna need to set it, set it free out into the world. Ryan, what how are you going to monitor Monday? And what do you do? What do you do? Do you do you follow it on a computer? I mentioned or there's no yet Tomorrow.

Tomorrow is a pretty big day for me, the final day of Q school and it also in return makes for a good Monday story often because a lot of the guys who are normally at Monday's are in Q school. So usually some great stories get through the Monday down in Houston. So it's a great It's Mondays are always great, let's be honest, but this is this is an exceptional Monday. Yep. Well, I would just I would just wrap for myself. Um, and I'm anyone who I knew the man would feel

exactly the same way. But uh, uh a fond farewell to a real great gent of golfed Al Finsterwald. Uh, I would say I knew him quite well. Definitely one of my god two guys like Bob Goldie was and other of that generation. Uh, great great friend of Arnold Palmer. He had something Tom Watson did not win in the PHA Championship and had a beautiful swing and uh carried himself with a lot of class for a long, long career. So farewell to to do. I mean he was a

rules official with the Masters for years. I mean it's pretty neat, like I kind of drew about. You know, I coach high school basketball and at some point I'm gonna become I'm gonna become a referee because I feel like the on the girl's side, they need better refs. And it's kind of analogy as you go from from playing the Masters to being a rules official. It's kind

of a cool journey. And I'd see him and he carried himself with such dignity, and everyone seemed to love the guy and I he was always in these rapped conversations out on the golf course or under the tree. And um, I never really knew him. I just knew of him. But he had he had a he had a very palpable like presence. So I'm glad you. I'm glad you tipped your cap to him. Yea, And I remember you asking for his number while did you reach him on that occasion? I was probably, Yeah, he was.

I'm sure he struggled some at the end. That was fairly recently. Well, and that was that was for the film book because um, well this is this is the story that's gonna go to the grave with Dow. But there was there was there was some dust up, but that Dow got involved in the fill out on the golf course and he was the only guy who could

really tell it. So that that very very discreet. Yeah, he had a thing with Arnold where they would be an Arnold's garage at his Arnold's really quite modest town house condo at at Bay Hill, and they'd be looking at their watches fifty eight four fifty nine. Right at five o'clock. They would open a little mini refridge on

the first beer so would come out. Uh, you know, they just had their rituals and they just belong completely to another error where you know, it's easy to romanticize, but on the other hand, it is romantic where it was really about the camaraderie and their friendship and trying to beat each other on the golf course but still liking one another when he came off the course, which, of course I would say, of course we're missing now,

which is a shame. It's it's the usual thing that money does wherever, gross grotesque large sums of money show up. But anyway, Dot was U Dow was a Jim I'm gonna I'm gonna tell a story in print about doubt at the Masters in a couple of days, just along

the lines of what of what you were saying? Uh, some people, very very briefly, some people wouldn't know that uh Dow was contending and might have one of Masters one year, but got a penalty for practice putting between holes, and I don't remember the details right now, but I look that up as well. But he was a hell of a player, and he one twelve times and one of pg Championship. So here is my only thing I

know about Dow is And obviously it's changed now. But uh, if you look up, everybody asked me about status all the time and how the rankings work and how status works, and dow was the first person, for some reason, I don't know if I was alphabetical or whatever, the first person on every status. Uh. Like if you look up all the rankings of uh players that are out for PGA Tour events, like jack is up there, and because you're a certain quateria of life, and dow was always

listed number one. He was still eligible at ninety. He could have he could have played an event if he wanted to. It might it might relate to, you know, the year he won that PGA Championship. It was the first year after they went from match play back to stroke. Yeah, some of some some time a rule changed and like players got grandfathered out, you know, but those guys, some

of those guys. So the guys who won the PGA Championship were grandfathered in and that's so like he was listed number one, he was like he could have been the first person in any PGA tour field. And I just wanted so badly for the night, get doubt to go. You know what, I am going to play the Memorial this year, right, yeah, yeah, just like yeah, I am

going to play the Barracouta Classics this year. That this has been a fun conversation is always with the usual diversions Um, but typically Captain Russell, Henley, dolfinster Wall, Patrick Read, Shane and Ryan Um, Justine Read and various others who made an appearance on this pod. So another fire drill is in the books. We'll keep doing these, uh, every every Sunday. And for Michael Bamberger and Ryan French, I'm Alan Schepnak. Thanks for listening and we'll be back in

your ear soon. A bed big played to win, made a fortune win my ship game in I ran the table, never thought I could fall. Then the winter hit me, lack a cannon, the ball, and now I can't shake this losing the stream. Every road I take is a dead end. Stream I got got in my head, can't get now. Trying not to think what I'm thinking about IM Gov of Throns in my head, can't get him out, Trying not to think what I'm thinking about h