Fire Drill 045: On The Record

what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship knuck back for another fire drill, joined by usual wingman Michael Bamberger and Ryan Frent. We have made a commitment to you the listener, that we're going to do these every Sunday in perpetuity. It's like a life sentence without hope for parole um. While rotating cast of characters, some guests obviously Michael, Ryan and myself for traveler out of pocket, Will we'll mix up the crew, but I think this will be this will be the core for better and

for worse. So we're excited to get this going. We've been you know, fire Drills, a new franchise we just launched this year, kind of built around the big events and breaking news, but felt like it's time to commit to a weekly podcast for you, the listeners who have been so loyal and showed so much fidelity and concern when we're not on the air. So here we are, boys, how how do you feel about this new endeavor? Gave

it a fist up. I really give a lot of credit to the blade uh Frank Lack letter because it really went sideways and and really in a good way sideways. Um, and that led to that we should do this all the week. So Frank, if you're listening, I'm sure he's a big We know he is. Thank you. Just to su Rise Michael, this is a medium that most people listen to. So when you hold up like a clenched fist, it's it's cool, but they can't quite hear it. This would be not be good for the Mark's brother who

didn't talk. Was that Harper? I think bad medium for him? But I saw I was Actually I think today's the anniversary, um, I don't know, fifty something years of um uh was it Tommy Smith and John Carlo holding up the race fist on the Olympic podium? So I know they're heroes to you and me as well. But so we appreciate that homage. A children's book out that's supposed to be very good about that whole period of our history. It

is powerful. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I mean, and there you go people who say, oh, I don't like I don't like politics in my sports. I mean, go back to the the Berlin Olympics with Jesse Owens, you have the night, everything that transpired, Muhammad Ali on down the line. I mean, politics is always part of sports, and it's I think it's naive too to wish it was any other way. Can I just make a quick golf note, well,

a quick life note about that thirty six Olympics. I knew well a man who remembered well and now, and I'm sure you would have met him along the way. I know you did. Uh. I knew well a man who remembered well because he was there in person the thirty six Olympics in Berlin. That was Sandy Tatum. He was he was sixteen and uh and he recalled it for the rest of his life because he had just the great justse On and Uh and Hitler in the same stadium. And he said the sound that the fans

made was terrifying. So with respect to people who have that view, you know, don't mix politics with sports. I get it on on a level, and it's completely unrealistic on on another level, and the way we talk about golf right now, not to get too sober too quickly, it's completely unavoidable. I would say, we avoided where we can, but when it comes up, it comes up, and it comes up a lot. Yeah, Sandy Tatum, I haven't. I

haven't thought about him in a little while. Actually had the great joy playing Cypress Point Club with Sandy and he was a Decki matsu Yama before it was fashionable. He would at the top, he would pause for like

two seconds. He was unbelievable. And when when we played, he was he was in his early ages where Sandy Tatum was a former U s J president and he's a guy who got Harding Park redeveloped and turned into championship venue and just one of the great figures in the game and had incredible head of silver hair, and he was he was a lawyer and just an incredible orator. I mean, his his command of English language is like rivals Winston Churchill. I would say he was just a

towering figure and to play to play CPC with him. Uh, and he was a member and he was a labor of love. He was really involved in that place. And that's an all time golf memory for me. Yes, well, Allan, since we may not get that many opportunities to bring up Sandy's namel though, as you say, if we do

this perpetuity, well, plenty of opportunity. He's also he's also responsible one of those famous golf quotes of all time, seventy four US Open, which was all I would say, almost literally lege like when I first sort of fell into golf, but but I didn't know the score at the time, but later later became fantased. I think it's been improved a little bit over time, and guys are shooting a thousand. I think I think Haylor won. One was seven over. I'm not sure, but it was a

high massacre. Yeah, the massacret wing foot and uh and uh Sandy. Sandy was not the president of the the U s J, but champions Champion of the committee, I'm sorry, chairman of the Championship Committee, something along those lines. And he said, we're not trying to embarrass the best golfers in the world. We're trying to identify them. And uh, that was when the U s J was the U s G A. Yeah, what would Sandy Tatum think of

a two whole playoff to decide the US Open. It's so bizarre, like either either be sudden death or go to like, you know, four holes, which is a haftw amount of golf, but to hold It's like it's how they settle on that. H Ryan. This is also the guy during another US Open, guys there was do you remember the named lan Well Allen would definitely know the name Ryan with all the names you know, do you know the name ln Hinkel of course, yes, random random golfers, yes,

Solon Hinkel. Uh was it an Inverness? I think it was Inverness? Uh took a short shortcut by teeing it up on a pencil and playing the wrong fairway and turning a part five into a par four. And so see Sandy planted a tree that night so he couldn't do it, you know. But and then Henkel did do it. I've told the story wrong. At first he did it with a regular tape. Then then take them planted the tree, and then Hankle did it again with a t he

teed it up. You know, he put the ball up on a on a t and uh and guy started complaining, you know, you're changing the course. You're changing the course and uh and and seeing as it were improving the course. I mean, that's a trucking new tree under the cloak of midnight and the planting and the guys show up the next day. It was big. It was like a sixty ft spruce. It was big. The Ankle tree his open right at the times a year or two ago, and you know, and it made reference to the ankle

trees along with the eisenhowerd Tree. And you know some people are still sitting shove for the Eisenhoward tree. Uh. It was one of the great trees and all the golf. But we gross, Alan, what would you say, Alan and Ryan? Ryan grew up on of course, of the very futures. Do you have a I'm sure you love the pebble Pebble bea tree, but you have a favorite tree in in in golf Allen Well, of course the tree in the eighteenth fairy at Pebble died. And when I was

working there in the nineties, was I working there? No, I guess I was already I'd already left, but it was I want to say it was mid nineties. They trucked in a new tree to get it and to get down to the eighteenth fairway. It was the most

amazing piece of machinery I've ever seen. It was a semi that had about a hundred wheels and they could they could incrementally change the direction of each so this like semi could do these s turns to get through the lodge area and get down into this very tight compact and just moved like a foot at a time. It was incredible. And uh yeah, I like that tree. I like the tree off the fourteenth hole of the dune's course at Monte Peninsula, but it's probably ghost tree,

uh you know, at a abandoned dunes. And I was just took my well, as you know, I took my kids camping at Coya National Forest and there was this incredible dead tree. I took a photo and I need to send it to the Uncle Tony group chat because it looks exactly like the ghost tree. But anyway, what about you, Ryan, are you an artist? I mean, I'm gonna bring some like I feel like my job on this podcast is to bring some like the common man Lee,

just like Pabble and Monterey Peninsula. There used to be three shitty trees in the center of sixteen fairway at the Elpinic Country Club, Okay. And it wasn't like we didn't have fucking s curve the semis coming like bob uh the you know, like the the superintendent was probably making two dollars year. Took his chainsaw out there and cut them down like a normal person does because they're stupid. They're in the center of the fairway. But they were

very iconic because he used to ring the bell. You know, peanut terms iconting. Uh. There was a bell hanging on it and so you had to wait for the bell uh to do it. And I was playing in a high school match and someone hit the bell uh that I was playing. I mean, my god, you guys are like people are coming in in the middle of the night. They have s curve things. Michael's making notes about that bell right now. Look at it. I mean, I've talked to Michael for twelve hours over the last eight days

and he just made He's making notes again. The man never stopped. I was just gonna note Ryan, tell me if this is not correct. Was your maternal grandfather not an arborist among his other among the many other things he was in his life? He was, and I was even knew as widely read as you are, may not know the book um. Ryan's mother is a Eustis and Uh and Ryan's maternal grandfather. His mother's father was Obie Eustace. And here's the author of this remarkable book called Notes

from the North Country. Is that working a lot of trees in this book? Alan the family eight muskrat in their youth. Muskrat is a black, loyally disgusting, repulsive meat. Yes, there's baked, like at least like if you put it under an open fire you could maybe kill some of the flavor and replace it with something else. But they didn't do that. They just baked it. They had black blood coming out of it. It's actually Mason that Ryan

made it this far. I feel like I feel like at this point we should offer a mission statement for this podcast, because I'm sure that the listeners are totally perplexed, like this is like this, like Seinfeld, it's like that podcast about nothing. You mean the listener period. My mom who religiously listens to everything I do is like, well that's yeah, as gonna say. I think our vision for

this podcast we're gonna recap the weekend golf. Maybe we'll look ahead to what's coming, but obviously there's gonna be some some unexpected detours. And by the way, to those listening at home, we do not talk in advance about any of this stuff. There's no game plan, there's no there's there's no I would say there's no thought because we were thinking about golf all the time, three of us.

But we just we just press record and freewheel, which is probably too apparent right now, Alan, are you aware that Ryan's mother, the former Jenny Eustace, it's just finishing and she's probably at that point is so many of us have been, where she's slowing down because she's about to finish. Phil you un authorized biography, Phil Mickelson. This is another thing that you don't know, Mike, is Alan and my mother had a conversation today, just like you and my mother. Uh Alan called me and my mom

was there and very the thing. Enough about my family, because Lord Mills, we're going to talk about that at some point down the road. Let's talk about Phil. I mean, this is in our in the golf media landscape. That was one of the big developments of this week, especially in our world because Uh, he's over in Saudi Arabia.

This is a big moment for live golf. They're they're on the home soil, essentially the motherland, if you will, and um, A reporter asked Philisoft a softball question basically says, oh, you had some spicy things to say about the Saudi Arabia and it's people you know. Now that you hear, what are your feelings? Obviously the politic thing to do. Maybe the the old Phil Mickelson, when he used to be smooth and and a master publicist, would have said, oh,

I love it here that people are so gracious, wonderful. Instead, this is what he said. Jake Muldowney, our producer roll the tape. Jake made some comments about this country last year, which you've apologized for. I just wonder how you feel about now you're here. Have you changed your opinion? So I will reiterate. I never did an interview with Alan Schepnick, and I find that my experience with everybody associated with

live Golf has been nothing but incredibly positive. Uh, And I have the utmost respect for everybody that I've been involved with. So that's what Phil said. And um obviously it's it was a weird non sequitur, but um I was. I was camping in Skuya National Park when this happened. No, that's what I need to know, Allen. Let's stop right here, because one could get ahold of Noel with the fire pit group firepit group chat and for people that have the get getting Alan to have any good sort of

service in anything is quite a miracle. In fact, they had none. I have to know when it came to when you finally found sir of us. Was it just like your phone had to be like starting the it's even, it's even, it's even better than this because this camping my kids are on this they have a week break in the middle of October every year, and so um, there was always there was a lot of talking about

what to do, what not to do. Anyway, make a long story short, this camping trip was very very last minute. So it was an extremely hasty departure and trying to mobilize four kids and a dog and all the gear because it's getting cold. Now you know, it's in the thirties at night. And so as we were doing that and changing cars and everything, I couldn't find my phone. And so I said, I said, okay, we can't leave

on this trip until I find my phone. And everyone looked for like thirty minutes, and all of cars in the house there we could not find the fucking phone, and my find my iPhone was off. I guess my ringer was off. And finally I was like, okay, we gotta go on this trip. I mean, we got a four and half hour drive, let's go. So we left my phone behind. So I literally had no phone and no service and so um. But as we were driving up, you know, all my kids have phones, of course, there

all teenagers. So I was using my son Ben and my daughter Olivia was using their phone to make calls, and I was texting people and so and Matt Chanelle was one of them. So we can't for two days and we're driving out of the mountains and you finally get service and I can't remember one of my kids had a text for Matt saying called me. Immediately. I was like, oh, this sounds sort of serious, and so I called him. I was like, hey, buddy, what's up and he's like, wow, you picked a great time to

go to literally disappear into the woods. So um, so that was I was very slow to learn about it because not only even when I got service, I don't have access to my Twitter because of course I can, I don't know my passwords on just not on my phone and all this and that. So it was it was wild where did you find your phone? Did you

find your phone? And how many roughly text message? Well, so eventually we pulled when we stopped for dinner, I did have my laptop, like I always bring my laptop just in case, like if you know, if if Tiger has another car accident or something, you gotta be really it's kind of like a surgeon, you know, you get

your beeper just in case. So I had my laptop, so then I was able to get into my eye message and um, I don't know I had it was hundreds of messages and and you know, so many Twitter notifications and all that, and it was it was so jarring because for for like the first few hours when I was on that trip, I was all twitchy because I had my phone. You know, we're just so used to checking it and um but it was great. It made it made me enjoy the serenity of the nature,

and it was a blissful break. And then the walk right into this ship store, it was like, oh my god. So I assume you knew as soon as you saw the clip and that he was just trying to like play word sound right, like you didn't think that he was denying that he ever talked, right, I mean, that was just Phil. Um. You know, he's always working in edge, he's always got an agenda, and so um, yeah, he

was in his it's just semantics. He's saying, well, it was an off the record conversation, therefore it doesn't count as an interview, and he said, you know, he never never had an interview whatever. So yeah, that was of course Phil knows we spoke many times of fact, so um, it's it was bizarre. And but so let me we're gonna open the floor up to Michael, because in my absence, Michael jumped in and wrote a very thoughtful column that

kind of explained the whole situation. I thought expertly, and I was deeply grateful, and I think it already posted by the time I came back into Civilizations. So it was like, I really missed the whole thing. But Michael, why don't you summarize your thesis for those who haven't haven't read your story, Like, you know, what does your take on the situation? Happy to do that just so

that people who are students of Alan SHIPNK cell phone troubles. No, what was the height from which you dropped your cell phone at the two thousand eighteen Writer Cup in Paris. I think you were in a bleacher and maybe it dropped from a bleacher. I'm not sure what happened, but I know you were. There was cell phone lack of

cell phone frenzy that week too. Yeah, so this was of course that that was a freighted writer cut because I had made the prediction that the US was gonna embark on this long term dominance and all of Europe paid in me already, and so it was already a week where I needed my phone. I loved day you Allen, I would differ right correct, It's all part of the fun.

But it was the opening match that, you know, Friday morning, and me and some of our former golf dot Com colleagues were up in the bleachers and it was like whatever, thirty people and it was totally nuts and like the first few shots that rider kept have been hit. And I don't know if Dylan the chair your standing you kind of bumped me. I don't know, something happened. I

dropped my phone. It felt about twelve feet and landed face down on pavement and it was like, you know, you're just afraid to turn it over, and it was just completely spider webbed and unusable. I did find a place in Paris was open late that night and they gave me a new screen. So I was really only had a commission for one day. But yeah, I love Slash hates self. I will guess on the French don't take kindly to up upset Americans who desperately need their

cell phone fixed. Not long. Yeah, yeah, So the guy said he needed an I was like, great, I'll go have dinner and actually I had the Well that just not enough for a puppet. Did you already revealing yourself to be. I'm not saying you are the vulgar American you would be to get into the soup class. Well, in that whole week of logistics, I went up on

a bus that I went to the wrong place. It was it was a mess but so yeah, I came back after dinner and he wasn't done, and it was a long dinner, it was probably almost two hours, and I just looked at him blankly, like I was bereft of any emotion at that point, and I just said, I'm just gonna sit here and wait, which I think was also in front that smart quite quickly googling bereft real quick, and then I will come back and have some Ryan, have you ever been to France? Uh the

McDonald's milk shakes there. I swear to god, they're like a shot class. They're so small. It's a joke. Alan I thought it was bizarre. I imagine that that and number one emphasized imagine I don't know, I can't pretend to know. It goes through Phil's mind. I imagine, you know, he's over there in Saudi Arabia. He's dealing with crown Prince and this guy and that not crown prints but all level of royalty. And he's like, uh, I never talked to the guy. I never what you talked to him? Well,

I never got interviewed by the guy. So now he's doubling down and what he's already been saying all along there, he's looking for cover, as you know, as as somebody else not I observed. Uh, if you were collecting a hundreds of millions of dollars from these people and you were in their country and you know what they've done to Jamal Kashogi, Yeah, you're gonna be pretty careful what you say. Um, I think you know it's upsetting actually

because he must know on some level it's disingenuous. Uh yeah, it's too clever by half, as we said in a headline, And um, you know it's any big deal in the grand scheme of things. Uh No, but it just it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and and it kind of does remind me. I mean, I'm really sort of going up. Let's get back to the main thread here in just one second. But Phil one that now, let's help me with the order. Al what came first? Uh? The Kia win or Phil going in the booth at

at Harding Park. Harding was August of two thousand twenty. Kio would have been May of one. Okay, well, so I mean, let's forget about the winning the PGA Championship at age fifty, which is a remarkable achievement with you know, Brooks Skeptica breathing down your neck. But he went in that booth and he showed what kind of talker he can be. He could have been the most entertaining golfer in the history of golf talking. So you know what

he is capable of. I mean, he's a very bright person, he's a very verbal person, and he's very knowledgeable about golf. So for him to willfully use six words or whatever it was, to willfully distort the city situation and make it worse or helped his own cause, uh, you know, it's off putting to me. Yeah, and it's also it's bad pr because given the point that question was trying to say something nice about the Saudi people. Instead he created basically a two day news cycle about how disingenuous

he is. And reluctantly I had to I had to get back on Twitter and you know, defend myself and and point out all of the Micholsonian bullshittery that you know that was had been hangs over this whole situation, and people had to weigh in about Phil. You know, Brandal Shamblee had some very um strong and and and accurate things to say about about Phil's lack of honesty, and um, you know again the whole point of that question and that press conference was just spread some good

will about Saudi Arabia and live golf. Instead, film made it all about himself and it forced us to re examine, you know, how duplicitous he can be. So it was just like, not only was it was it inaccurate and with lame, but it was self defeating because he made himself the story again and he made he brought those

he dreads those comments up again. It was like it was how not to conduct a press conference one oh one, you know, And of course can you imagine Tiger in a million years, Like you know, when the Haney book came out and he disliked it so much, he did everything in his power to make sure that the words Hank Kenies book never came out of his mouth. So to your point out pardon me, he did the exact exact opposite here. But just you know, I hadn't thought

about this until until just now. The fact is he said to you, you know, regarding the Saudi regime, they're scary motherfucker's and now he's in their country well, they are scary motherfucker's. By the way, I'm sure we have scary motherfucker's. Uh you not to keep using a profane, really distasteful uh phrase. Uh, but now he's gonna do whatever he can to run from it. Why not just own it or not even bothers? As you say? So, well,

have I have a really funny story. I was gonna say this from my book I'm writing about all this, but it's too good not to share. The Um the number two guy at the Public Investment Fund, you know, who's basically floating um this entire live golf and he's very hands on. His name is Magic. And I went up and talk to him at at live bed minister. You know, I really want to do an interview with him, and he, uh, he shook my hand. He said, oh, yes,

I know you, he said. You know when the quotes came out, I called Phil and I said, Phil, I'm the only sound he guy you've ever talked to. Am I really that's scary, And I mean he he was very disarming and very charming and uh you know that he showed some grace and that like that's that was well played by him. And um so anyway that that really makes me laugh. Ryan, you said your mom is reading the philm book. So, um, you know we're all

way too close to this. But she's she's a golf fan, but she's she's not she's not on the beat like the rest of us. What what is her impression of Phil Michelson now that she's you know, pretty much read the whole book. I'm just curious. Yeah, my mom, My mom is a very was a very big you know, el fan end of story, like a lot of people. And her exact words, I think I text him to you, you know in the group chat, was you know, it

really pulls on my heart strings. And and and my mom is very verbal and and very in touch with her feelings. She just said, you know, I feel like I've been fooled for a long time. Um. And then you know, she said, the book has many nice things, but you you have we have seen the other side, and so you question even the good things, you know. And uh and and I mean back to your point, guys, I just don't get pr people. And if someone told Phil to say that, or Phil just did it on

his own, Um, I just I don't understand it. I mean Harold Varner has that the least amount of crap taken because he just put out a statement that he was going there for the money, end of story. Like if Phil just came out and said, yeah, I said it, I was scared and I was a out of money or whatever the reason was that he was going this would all have been gone over. And now, like you said, he's brought it up again. I just I don't understand why he does it to himself, Like like you said, Alan,

it was a simple question. It had nothing to do with you. He loses the pr battle because then he has to come back and say to Bob Herring like, yeah, I didn't mean it like that. I meant it that you know it was off the record. We're just gonna have to disagree. I just I just don't understand in it. And it feels like this is hard to say on

one statement. Feels like he didn't learn anything from what he's gone through, Like just like you made a mistake, he made a terrible Mistakelyle, how do you how did you learn from it? And it just it's kind of mind boggling to to put himself in that position. It really is. Yeah, that's well said, Um here's what I'll say about do you want to talk more about Phil? But I will say, I don't know. Did you guys watch any live golf this weekend? You know, I never

I never watched the live stream. I am curious. I check out. I click on the scores because I'm probably morensted than most people. And um, oh, this is a good segue. I mean, Brooks kept go one that the tournament over there in Jetta, and so this was interesting. I put a question. I posed a question on Twitter this morning, and I just said, you know, this is a this is a future Hall of Famer. He's had all kinds of injury and other issues for two years.

He finally wins again. He's found his game. Like this should be a huge deal, Like this should be a big story. And I said, you know, to you the golf fan out there, like how much significance to you assign to this Keptica win? And it's over two thousand comments in a matter of a few hours, and I've scrolled through most of them and the overwhelming majority of people have said zero, less than zero, none at all.

And it really, you know, it's sad for Brooks because if he did this at a PGA Tourphet, it would be it would be really celebrated, like the return of the King. And this guy was the most dominant player in golf for a couple of years. And he stared down tip the Great Tiger Woods at the PGA, and and he beat dust and head to head at Best Page, and he chard Shinnecock Hills. I mean, these are back to back US opens like that is a solid gold resume.

He's obviously got this weird kind of brooding charisma. I mean, how Brooks kept back as at the top of the game is huge for golf in an in an alternate universe. But the utter lack of apathy out there from from golf fans was was quite stark. Well, that's because they know what Brooks kept going knows, which is fifty or four holes, easy course, forty eight players, no cut is not the same thing. I mean, we don't know Tiger's

true state of mind ever about anything. But we've watched Tiger, you know, you know, and for well, I have since since he was a teenager. He's a he's a super realist and he has to know that that two thousand nineteen Masters it was a great, great victory. Any victory is you know, played honestly, is a great victory. But it was handed to him. He must know it. Uh. And he was choking like a dog when he played eighteen. So what can Brooks kept even say about him self

fifty four holes? Uh? In that situation, that's not tournament golf, as your two thousand people who respond to today do it. So if if you were in the business of awarding points to it, it's something. I'm not saying it's nothing. Of course it's something, But what is it really? I wouldn't even know how to begin to judge it. What's your friend? Yeah? Yeah, I mean agreed. Uh. Two things I watched ten shots, um and and two things struck me. One and I mean this very honestly. Zero fans. And

I don't mean like there was a hundred fans. I mean zero fans, which was stunning. It is their home country. I just assumed that the fairways would be lined by everyone just saying you have to get out there. I mean I don't mean, I don't mean I'm talking zero fucking fans. I mean zero, like players not raising their hand to anyone. There was no one there it was unreal, unreal. Uh. And the second thing is like what has hit me is that leaderboard was really good and no one cared.

That leaderboard had Sergio uh Dj, Joaquin Neman, Matt wolf Brooks Kepka A two things one, no one cared and be thirty six months ago or twenty four months ago, No one in a million years would have thought that that leaderboard would be on any other tour besides the PGA Tour or some affiliation of PGA Tour, Major or European. It is wild time in golf. I mean, that is a really good leaderboard. If that leaderboard was at the Sanderson Farms, people would be freaking the funk out, I

mean freaking out. And no one cared. Like in general, you know, all one cares. It's it's it's a wild thing. And I don't know how live overcomes that. I just don't. Yeah, that's there. That's clearly their challenges. And Michael's made this point before. The fans don't care about the money. If anything, it's off putting, and so that's what they're hanging their hat on. You know, oh these huge, these huge numbers, but um, I don't know that that's a fundamental question

for them going forward. But I will say I probably give it a little more credence because I've been at these live events and the guys are playing hard. I mean, there is a certain energy out there, so I mean for Brooks to get it done, and you're right, it was not It was not Oakmont, but there was there was winds were blowing hard. For everything I've I've read and all the highlights I've watched, and you know, he

had to play some golf to win it. So it just again, we're not gonna until we get to Augusta. What about means? But when we bring all these players together and we have a measuring stick, that's accepted. Um. But you know, at the same time, I mean, he's the lift stuff is inescapable because over on the European Tour at Valderrama, which is really one of the best courses that they play, UM, Adrian Utegi won the the Andalucia Masters, pretty big, you know, pretty nice event on

the European Tour. Now he is been traveling on two passports this whole time. This guy played the first three live events, but the European Tour, you know it's gonna get it's gonna there's this court case going on. Are are they going to be allowed our live players gonna allowed play on the European Tour. Let's not getting hurt until February. So in this interim, the live players are able to compete on the European Tour, and and and so a Teggi has has basically after three live events,

has gone back to the European toris played there. I think this was a ninth event since the summer, and he wins his fourth for a fourth time on the European Tour. He's a very legit player and so, um, you know, the courts, I guess we'll decide his future. But he's been double dipping, which I guess, more power to you if you can get away with it. But um, of course that's the nightmare scenario. And the European Tour gave him very little coverage even on their own website.

Um you know, in the end, what would be his status for the ryder cut down? Well again, that's that's gonna be decided by this court case because he's clearly still a tour member. He's still filling his obligations of playing the minimum number of events. And you know that that's also under under judicial review, So we don't know he's but now only he's in the top six now among them the automatic qualifiers. I mean, he's he's in the mix without a doubt, but we don't know what

it means. So he got world ranking points, he got the money, he got the exemptions, and it gives you know, it gives him a strong position depending on how this this court case is resolved. I wonder how Live feels about him playing on the European Tour, you know, I mean, they're very much like everybody against us against the world.

Yeah but yeah, but but Ryan, that's a great question, Ryan, But I would say, just on instinct a loan, if a player can play his way into the Master's field on world ranking points alone and make things awkward for Augusta,

they would welcome that. Yeah. And again, and his status going forward with Live is unclear because he played the first three events and none since he's not listed in the field for the big season finale at Trump Darral So, um, you know, who knows what's going on by the seas I was trying to get some answers and no one would tell me what his status is for the future.

So this guy, if the court case goes against him, he could be a no man's land where you know he's he's he's burn his bridges that live for whatever reason. He's he's barred from the European Tour and he's always have Asia. Um, but you know it's like this is a high stakes gambell and um, it's gonna be fascinating to watch a play out. So uh, that is that drell Field only open to guys who have played all the live events or are there some guys who have not? No? No,

because people have come online at different times. You know camp Smith doesn't play them all, but he'll he'll go right. Um, you know there's this whole year debt a test for live and everything's just one of their people told me, like, you know, we're flying the plane as we've builded around us, and so, um, you know what we'll see how that that final field shakes out. This is my Michael knows who's in the field. He's got his Gleaks T shirt on underneath that fucking button up. We all know you

are a huge Gleeks fan, Michael. Is that is that what they're called the gleaks doesn't want to call the Cleeks to see not a g MY team is the Niblix running? I think you know that. I apologize to the Saudi Prince for calling them gleeks. Definitely, that would honestly be better, like they gotta go. You know, the names are are so silly, like the Merchant, the merchant on that would be off the charts. Could you imagine, like,

oh my god, that's your best idea? Yeah? Um, shout out of an odd kind to our colleague and friend, Bob Harrick, probably the only reporter who has been to all the live events so far. Would that be correct? On he um? I think he skipped, he sipped, he went. Yeah, he was so Bob and I had a lot of correspondence. You know, I like Bob. He's such a good person

and he you know, he had his book. He had this Tiger Phil book that came out right around the time of mine, and um, whatever there was, there's always like a little rivalry or spiciness there. But Bob's been He's a dogged reporter. He's done a great job with all the live stuff, and you know, credit to him. He like he tracked down field in the next day and he got he got those quotes that kind of semi clarified the whole thing about his comments over there

about me. So yeah, um, no, I think I believe Bob skipped one of the domestic events, either Chicago or um I think it was Chicago, but I think that's the only one. But yeah, he was in. He was in in Thailand, and he was in he was in Saudi Arabia. So I'll be you know. I I texted him, I was like, how was going over there? Because the whole question and I thought really long and hard about making that trip was what kind of access would there be?

And my frustration, you know, I I covered, I covered the first three live events and then I went and then I went to Chicago. But my frustration has been institutionally they're shutting guys down who won't speak like I've had a number of people say to me face to face early in the season, Yea'll sit down with you, Yeah, do your podcast, Yeah, I'll talk to you. And they come back and like, oh, it's not a good time, Like, oh,

maybe at the end of the year. And so I finally went to some of the lift folks is like what the hell? And they're like, yeah, we're kind of, you know, trying to we just want to get through this season and we're just trying to turn the temperature down on things. So they basically there's been this chilling effect that's come from the Executive Committee and whoever else, And so for me to go to the tournaments, I can't do interviews. It doesn't make any sense. So I

kind of stopped going, Um, are you going to draw? No, I'm not going to drought because that's the week of the Uncle Tony Invitational in Banning Dunes. And again I thought really hard about it, because you know, I had had some interactions with Trump when they're at Bedminster, and he's part of he's gonna be part of this book, and um, it is the season finale. But again, if I can't do one on one interviews, um, you know I can. I can watch highlights and I can read

the press conference transcript. I've been told that things are gonna loosen up once they get through this first season. So, um, you know seriously that the concert that they're going to put on is fire. I mean fire. They are spending more on concerts then they are on Brooks Kepka, they have Snoop Dogg, Trevis Scott, Michael, Trevis Scott, yes or no, no? Who he is? Michael real quick sidebar. Michael and I are driving to the h Did I tell this already

on this podcast? I don't think driving to Philadelphia, Michael says, tell me some songs that to find you. And we listened to Eminem, Michael Bamberger and me jamming out to to Eminem. But Travis Scott, uh, Snoop Dogg and the Chain Smokers. I mean I literally put out a tweet that replied to them announcing it. Can I just go to the lot of people do that? I mean, so I've I've you know, I've been at these events and

there's the golf crowd. As the golf crowd is filing out, people start coming in for the concerts and a lot of good look at people dressed really nice you know, nice cars. It's like a completely different crowd on some people stay on, but there's definitely folks who are coming just for the concert. So you can you can get away with that, Ryan for sure. Maybe that's maybe that's how they're making a little bit of this money back,

is they're having to. I mean, I don't. I would not even begin to know how much you know Snoop Dogg and Travis Scott more, especially because he's just a little more mainstream now, Like you have to pay them in order to get them to play at your event. I mean it has to be in the seven digits, would be my guess. Uh or in the high signal. Do they charge a separate admission fee or does that part of your golf package? I don't know, that's that's a better question for him. I don't. I don't know.

I've never seen just the concert advertise, but I think what happens is you buy the golf ticket and you

just go only to the concert. In other words, you know, so you're paying use the discount codes and you can get your your day of golf for fifty or seventy five dollars, but in fact, all you're doing is going to the concert, which is still achieve him and to go to you know, if that was a the you know, Levi Stadium in San Francisco, that ticket would be three hundred dollars so for that concert, So yeah, you could definitely use use not five and you're going to Travis

Scott for like sixty eight bucks. And uh, speaking of Kevin Na, how about Kevin Nah having the flu withdrawing and shaking everybody's hand, It's great, Hold in the hell is he doing? Like, oh I got the flu, guys, I don't really feel good and then shaking everybody's hand

and leaping. I think you make a very good point about Eminem and Travis Hill, you know, playing this playing this golf tournament, because to me, that dovetails with what I've thought all along, which is I think this is a Saudi effort to look western, to look mainstream, and to look like something they haven't looked like for the last you know, ten thousand or so years. Uh, And

I think it's very effective. And I think when people say, you know, oh, they're gonna get tired of losing money, I don't think they're gonna get tired of losing money, because there's a lot of money to be made in looking western. Mm hmm, yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't disagree honestly, Like, I mean, it's a really good concert and people could who are would want to go to that concert, could care less where it comes from, you know. Yeah, right, Okay, so here here we are.

It's like the weekend Golf. Nobody wants to live tournament, and yeah, we can't. We can't stop talking about live because it just it's it just blots out the sun. But there was a great tournament on the PGA Tour um as far as I don't know greats and overstatement, it was an interesting tournament on the pg Tour. They're over in Japan, the Zozo um. We had a Ricky

Fowler siding. You know, he's fired his caddy, his coach of he's reinventing himself and he played great for fifty four holes, had the lead, he didn't get it quite across the line, but you know, second place finished. He had a t six earlier. It seems like Ricky Fowler is on the road to recovery, which you know, there's he's always been the butt of various jokes because he hasn't won that much given his station in the game and all the endorsements and everything. But it's hard to

root against Ricky Fowler. I mean, he conducts himself with great class and dignity, and uh, he's very giving of his time and of himself, and I think everyone's happy to see Ricky Fowler back. But what was your guys take on on his performance. I like Ricky Fowler. I loved the way plays. I love the way that, you know, the speed and the lightness of his he's lighting on his feet, and uh, I find him very pleasant to

talk to you. Uh, but fifty four holes it's not so needy to and uh that you know, the last time he was in contention when Rory one in Vegas, that would probably be went well over a year ago. Now, Uh, you know, it's the same kind of thing. He played some really good golf through about sixty seven holes. But you know, for those of us who grew up on seventy two hold straternament golf, just as fans, I'm saying planet,

uh seventy two holes or something about it. So if you really are back first off, you're winning, and if you're not winning, you're playing off. If you're not playing off, you're there through seventy two holes. So uh, there must still be things that are are very much wrong. The swing has always been sort of funky, you know. Uh, I don't really know. I would I'd be rooting for him too. I think it's it's admirable because to see what he's doing, because it does take a lot of

work to get to where he is. I imagine that that it does. And uh, I would think he's got a lot of money in the bank and not a lot of incentive except for the desired to play good golf. That would be my that would be my guests really really from Afar. I I have never been a huge Ricky follower Fowler fan, but it kind of changed. I think it was two years ago at the US Open qualifier. UM he was in a second alternate playoff and it was like ten for two and it was held the

next morning. There's literally no reason that Ricky followers should have showed up like zero, I mean just zero hey that he went to the qualifier and be that he thought enough to like show up for the second alternate playoff and it was like mad respected dude showed up, talk to people. A guy actually dunked it from the fairway on the first playoff hole to end it pretty quickly, and like mad respect he obviously I think it was

pretty well rumored. You guys are better and in the know on this more that he was at least offered and could have gone to live. I think it was kind of a like, pretty obvious person to go after a very popular or not playing well in danger of even losing his status. It would have seemed like an easy out for Ricky at that point, and he didn't go, and now he's scrambling back. I mean, he just doesn't. Like Michael said, he doesn't. I'm sure he doesn't need

the money. Uh, and so mad respect for him to to come back and do this. I agree, Michael, obviously not all the way back, but I mean help he basically lost his card last year, so the second place finish will go a long way and just keeping his card so we can continue this this quote unquote comeback. But uh, I mean in the fall, the fall events have been pretty good. I'm indifferent about Keijian Bradley, but uh uh Thagala was in the top ten, Hoveland in

the top ten, Saner in the top ten. Obviously not many people here really cared about it, just because of the time difference. Um, but another good fall event for the PGA Tour at a time they obviously need him. Yeah, I mean, I actually I love Keikan Bradley. He's always be one when I go to guys like he's he's a great quote, he's very funny, he's very smart, and he's he's not afraid to say things. So I was.

I was happy for him, you know, first win since two thousand and eighteen, and you know, you forget that guy's a major championship winner. He was. He was a Wryder Cup monster there for a couple of years and he still has a lot of golf in front of him. So um, and there's something compelling. It's actually we mentioned Kevin Nah. I was. It's a little bit like watching Kevin nah. You know, there's you can see the angel

and the demon on their shoulders out there. You know, Keegan so fidgety, it so nervous, and um, just the weight of it all shows the strain. And that's why

I think it's fun to watch him. I know, his his ordinate preshot routine is a bit much and can iss not great TV, but there's something about that to me, like it builds the tension and I don't want to watch it every week, but when he's in contention once or twice a year and you can you can see his discomfort, it's it's so palpable There's something about that that I find very compelling, even as it is a little maddening point of live versus. Everything always ends up

as live versus the PGA tour. But um, Keegan uh did an interview. I think he was facetiming his wife and the tour recorded it. I mean he was bawling, couldn't get through couldn't get through it. And then flash back to the live interview with Brooks and the guy. I mean, they have to stop this, they have to stop the propaganda. It really is ridiculous. The guy led the question with I know you've won majors, but this

has to be a big moment in your career. I'm like the Jetta uh whatever, this is called a big moment, and Brooks is like, you know, I mean Brooks is like yeah, huh, yep kind of. But I think you know Keegan's it's such I'm not a PGA tour lackey that for the people that are gonna say this, I've had my brawls with the PGA two. All of us have out more than me the other two on this thing, but like that, it means something to win. It is

the struggle back, Like Kegan hasn't won in a long time. Uh. And to your point, and that's what Brooks's win should have been, like, it is a big point in golf that Brooks Kepta, at times one of the best golfers in the entire world, is back. And in his interview he said, uh, you know, I wasn't sure I was going to play again. There was a minute there that I wasn't ever going to see it up again. That should be a huge moment. Uh, And it just wasn't. And it was not not in the whole golf world,

but takegan, it was a huge moment. And that's where I mean, it's back to the same point. I just don't know how lived builds that ever um with their current set up, because all of the guys are super rich, and I just don't I just don't understand it. If it's not a really big deal to the player himself to win, you know, how can we possibly expect it is for us. I mean, that's that's the starting point that the beauty of the majors is there's such a yin and yang going on with them. The players care

a lot, therefore we care a lot. We care a lot, therefore the players care a lot, the sponsors care a lot, history cares a lot. It's all in one big stew and that's the beauty of them. And you know, as we've discussed, uh and Allen made this point last time we were together. It was a great point. You know, the major's will only become more important out of this

and that that will be good for golf. Or maybe Ryan part of me if it was your point, but you know, and then the qualifiers for the Mayor no, I think it was now the uh, you know, the qualifiers for the US Opening, qualifiers for the British Open and uh and maybe the maybe the PHA Americle will have to develop a similar kind of qualifying system. But but that will sprinkle down, that will you know what, it will trickle down uh uh and and become more important as well. Um uh. You know I'm with young

and Keithan Bradley. You know, the the emotion that he's brought to his golf all through his career has been it's I've I've rooted for him for that reason. I've also admired the fact that, you know, he spat like crazy and he got one he had one conversation. I don't know with whom one pre tour official let it was a bad look and he quit cold turkey and that is not you know, I'm not That's not an easy habit to quit. So I've always borrowed him for that,

that one little who who quit tobacco. He used to chew tobacco. I don't know that he chewed. I think he just spat like crazy. Um, he's like a nervous tick. Yeah. During that a whole weird pre shot Thingjgan Bradley, Uh, Kegan Bradley wants um candid for Mark Baldwin at Q school. Can you imagine the downgrade of having me on the bank? How did that kind of want having their their friends? I cannot It's a very very good story that well leave for Mark Baldwin because I'm not sure how much

I can tell and how much I cannot say. It's an amazing great story Mark and had to pick him up and he was not anyway, So it's a long story. It's Mark to tell. It's a great story and it needs to be told on a podcast. Okay, I'm flying that away for a future reference. Here's the deal, Alan, I refused to forget this. I have got to know the Australian story, like right now, the ten minutes to

Australian story. Oh god, what was the context? And we were talking about like um, yeah, I don't even remember how it was. That just misadventures on the golf beat. Okay, so this is the deal. This is like or ninety nine it was. Remember Aaron Baddeley is an amateur, was an absolute legend, won the Australian Open. He was just one of the best teenage golfers of all times. So

I want to go down and do a story. And you know back in those days, if you want the way to Australia like, you have to come up with another story. So kry Webb was also on Almighty tears, like I'll do Cary because we've never really done a big story and are great perfect. So I guess I had a cell phone, but it was like early days

of cell phone email all that. So I went to an LPGA event and I talked to Carrie's mom, Evelyn, and I said, Okay, I'm going to the Australian Masters and then I'm gonna come up to Air and I want to spend some time with you because we in in car. I knew Cary was gonna be there at that time. She said, great, lovely, here's the home number. Um, you know, I'll write it down in my book. I'll see you then. And so it was, and it was done. It was like, so I fly to Australia and obviously

not a not a short trip. I go right to the Australian Masters and word is battle a just w dd Because he had like a horrible flu. I was like, damn, so bad luck whatever. I talked to other players about him, and when I watched some golf and but this is like he was in bed for days, and so his dad took me out. This parents felt terribly, took me all around and I met Aaron for seven seconds. He walked out of his room his underwear and like he pulled up Kevin Nah, shook my hand. He said, I'm

so sorry, I'm sorry you came all this way. I have to go back to bed. And so literally I went to Australia to do air in Battle and only saw him for maybe nine seconds tops. And but I was still able to do a lot of good reporting. Um, and it turned out to be a good story because the people around him are excellent talkers, but that you

know that happens sometimes. So then I go to Air, which is this tiny little town in the middle of nowhere, and um, I get to my hotel and I call, I call Evelyn and she says, oh goodness, gracious, Oh that's not going to work. I said, I'm sorry. What she said, yes, no, no, Car's not gonna be able to see you at all. I said, Um, I just flew here from California. It's really far away. We had already agreed on this, like she's yes, I'm terribly sorry.

I should have ranged. But there's no way you can see Cary um at Carry had come home with a romantic partner and they did not want to be seen in public. And so I and so I was like, okay, I'm here. I gotta write a story. So I was everywhere I'd go in town. I go to the dinner, Oh, Carr, he was just here. And I'd go to the Gulf cup. Oh did you see Carr? She just she just left. And if it was like a sign fell everywhere I went. I just missed Carry by ten minutes and m but

and why was there? And of course again the parents felt bad. So they took me around and whatever, and um, there was this the one movie house in Air, which is actually where where Rob and Evelyn the parents had met when their little kids had had fallen and just repair and been shuttered. Carry had had bought it. They were reopening it. Rob and Evelyn were doing all the work themselves basically, and um, if you remember Carry's swing coach, he had been in a horrible accident. He was in

a wheelchair. And so everyone again was very colorful. And I want up writing that story as like as a screenplay because of the movie connection, and it's one of the best things I've ever or done. Um. But so I went to Australia to do two features. Never never saw Cary and I saw Aaron Badley for one handshake and that was it. But I wrote two big gas features. And you have to be um, you have to be clever in this profession. But I mean, you talk about

a disappointing trip. It worked out in the end. I liked those stories, but man, that was that was when when you went to that movie theater, it did it? Did it open up while you were there was planning? It was still um, And I think if I remember correctly. Rob had the father. Cary's father had a background in construction, so he was in there, you know, like working on it. It It was still kind of somewhat gutted, but um uh, you know they described it was it was a big

deal in those days. It was like the only movie theater for hundreds of miles apparently, like and you know, you get dressed up and you'd go on the weekends and it was like a big deal. And so it was kind of cute that do you think that? Do you think the place is still open? How do you spell? Why are um? That's a good question. I wouldn't be able to I wouldn't be able to answer that. I

haven't thought about it in a while. But Alan, what would you what would you do if if the family or the agent or somebody would have said to you, will make car available to you. You can write her up, but anything about her private life involving a romantic relationship is off limits. What what would you have said in

that situation? Wow, that's a that's a tough one. I mean again, because I probably would have said yes because I was there and I would have liked to have spent some time with her and I think car is a very cool person, and um, you know her her romantic life was complicated, you know, and she showed up on the LPGA as this phenomen her her fiance was catting for her and they had a big acrimonious break up, and then I think her dating life went in different directions,

and that was in the tabloids in Australia and whatever. So in the end I probably wasn't gonna write about it anyway. You know, Sports Illustrated in the nineties was pretty tight place, and it wasn't really that germane. I mean, of course it is because our romantic lives are a big part of who we are, and for athletes as well, and so um, I'm not sure I would have had the confidence back then to really get into it, especially since they didn't want me to and had made that clear.

So another hand, I don't like people tell me what to do, so I probably I might have turned them down. I don't know. That's a tough one. The young, the young probably would have taken the deal. Yeah, no, I mean,

And the reason, and this one surprised anybody. The reason asked the question is you know, one thing I think we've all seen in just like that little Phil exchange, is that people think that there were black and white rules for what we do, and really it's it's so on the margins and in the gray, and there is

no right and wrong answer. Actually, you've got to feel your way through every situation and a lot of it has to do with with with trust and history or lack of trust and lack of history, and this case, uh, you know, there was no history. You know, you and Phil had a particular type of history, and um, you know in that affected how that whole thing went down. You know, I don't know what Phil was thinking, but I know that you were thinking, I've been trying to

reach this guy. Now he's finally called me and I'm using it. And you know, as I wrote, I think you were totally entitled to do that. Um, but people, uh, I'm not saying that they should, but it, uh, it's hard for people to understand what these real life situations are like, Yeah, well that's well said. I mean, so much of our job is interpersonal. And Ryan you know this too, because your d M s and your text people tell you all kinds of crazy stuff all the time.

Sometimes they're okay, if you use their names. Sometimes it has to be anonymous. Um. Sometimes you fact check it it turns out that it's it's not as as black and white as as they said. I mean, every situation is is kind of a compleat X in its own way, and you have to you have to just I mean, there there are rules and there's guidelines, but like I mean, it's very situational and you sort of have to follow your heart on these things. I mean, what is what

is your thought on that? Ryan, Yeah, I mean I can relate it. Obviously. You guys have tons and tons of more experience. But the Dustin Manning and I relationship

is is kind of like that. Uh. You know, Dustin called me hundreds of times, I mean hundreds and hundreds of times and uh and told me stuff off the record on the record, and I have to find that balance of giving him respect because at the end of the day, I want the story, you know, I want him to feel comfortable enough to keep calling me right

because I want the story. So it's just not as black and white like you know, he said, he would say things and then say, Ryan, I really meant that to be off the record, and I'm like, okay, you know, and I kind of have to find the balance of you know, do I let him go or do I not let him go? Or is that really off the record? And so I just navigated it on a like call the call basis, and uh, you know, it's you guys have dealt with it a hundred thousand more times than

I have. It's just you just navigate it as you go. That relationship I just navigated on a call the call basis. Basically, Justin Manning is the guy who put up the Big Money Classic. He's a mini tour promoter operator who has a history of not paying his players. And Ryan has been chasing the story for a while and he's a very slippery character. Side note, the guy the guy that

d M do you d M me? And I talked to him on the phone today and he says, uh, my wife signed up and lost three dozen think but I'm gonna get the money back. And I'm like, no, no, I do not. Yeah, I think you can. He told me that he was gonna pay one girl a month, and I was like, yeah, he's not. He's not going to pay anybody, So I would I would write that

off pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah, And I mean the off the record thing is is fascinating because again, if if someone says it and you agree to it, then that's that goes in a black box. And as I've said this previously, like the three most explosive things I know to be true about Phil mckinson are not in the book, and each of them would have been international news, like probably would have dwarfed the Saudi stuff in some ways.

But they're not in the book because they were told to me off the record, and I always honor those agreements. But in the case of Phil, he never asked to go off the record. I never consented to it. Now people have said, do you do you think that he thought he was off the record. I mean, I don't know what Phil is thinking. I'm not a mind reader,

and I'm not sure. When Phil picked up the phone to call me, he intended to tell me everything he told me, but it was a long emotional phone call and he was getting worked up and we were going back and forth. And that's someone say that's the art of interviewing is to keep getting people to tell you things, and he I would I didn't entrap him. You know, he was doing this. He called me. This was of his own free will. But once we're on the phone

and he's going, I'm not going to stop him. And you know, I guess I could have said, Phil, are you sure you want to say that? You know, but he's a big boy. He's a very smooth operator when it comes to reporters, and he knew I was writing this freaking book about him. So if he's on a monologue that that's got a lot of heat to it, I'm not going to cut him off and and and say Phil, are you sure you want to say that? Yeah,

that's just not my role. I'm there to listen. And um, so did did he Did he say more than he intended to? It's possible, but um you know that's on him, not me. So uh, It's it's a fascinating it's a fascinating subject. It could probably you could probably fill up a whole a whole semester of journalist of school, like how this whole thing is played out. But ultimately, you know, as I just I go back to you, like you're saying, Michael, you have to follow your conscience, you have to follow

your heart. Like I know that I've treated Phil very fairly and I know that when he called him he had an agenda, and since he never hasked to go off the record, like every words going in the book like that, that will just be always be my position on this. And as he said, we can, we're gonna have to agree and disagree. But um, Phil knows the truth. I know the truth, and um it's it's it's been

quite a right ever since that phone call. Well, Jake, Uh, the easiest social clips you've ever had in your life. Those left minute and a half right there. Just chop that up and watch the downloads come in. Well, the second of all that you want to address, But loose Anger Stanger I think is his name. Uh, been very nice to me. Seems to me a nice guy. He's just hung up on the fact that Alan didn't record

this phone conversation. And I will say only from my own experience that two people on this call will have a billion more experience than I do. If someone wants to talk, you just shut the funk up and let them. Michael Bamber told me that. And like, if I met a person that I want to talk to and he wants to talk on the record in an elevator, I'm not recording it. I'm just letting him talk. And uh, Dustin Manning used to call me all the time middle

of the night on the record. I didn't go, hey Dustin, let me go downstairs and get on my computer so I can record this. And he's like just spelling beans that I want to hear. I'm just letting him talk. Uh, And so it's just yeah, yeah, that's all well said, Yeah, loose Tinger. He sent me dozens of d ms on the subjects. He's a very very interesting personality. But um, I like to record stuff in general when I can.

This was a weird deal because I was driving on I five when Phil called me, and when he had originally texted me asking him to speak. I mean, he's he wanted to talk about meteorites and name image likeness issues and that sort of thing. That was a short text I got from and that's what his lawyer tried to sign me up as a consultant on, which of course I turned down because I was like glaring conflict

of interest. So you know, I thought it was gonna be a boring conversation about, uh, you know, how the tours marketing its players. That was how it was kind of built to me, so, um, yeah, if I had known how incendiary was gonna be, I definitely would have recorded it. Just Also, the call dropped like three or four times because I was driving on I five, so we had to call each other back, and it was like it was just kind of a little messy from

a tech standpoint. But just for the record, Jake Jake text me twenty minutes ago to rend Hey, Jake, No, no, we're not fucking wrapping it up. We might talk. What are you gonna say, Michael? What? Ran Lou Ankle? What? What about? I think he might be af Just just as a as a quick side note on the On the right before the PHA Championship, I was at a filling station right outside a Tulsa. The phone rang, and

says caller unknown. I wasn't expecting any call, uh from anyone in particular, and it was it was Trump calling me directly with no intermediary. And Trump and I know each other well, though I hadn't talked to him for years, and I was interviewing him. I was definitely interviewing him. And but because he's comfortable with me, he was starting to talk about someone in a very personal way, and I just I said, you know, Mr President, and I just want to remind you that I'm interviewing you, so

tell me stuff that I can use. And this I'm just giving this as a little illustration of real life stuff. And here's the guy who has been interviewed that was since and thousands of times and there's a response to that. So my so I said, you know, you know, give me stuff that I can that I can that I can use. You know, that's just sort of like real everyday language about how these things play out. And then Trump said, uh, well, you know you cleaned it up.

You know, when I'm talking to a reporter, you know, I might just say something and you know, you just sort of clean up, you know. If I'm speaking in public, of course it's perfect. But anyway, but the point being is that people want these phrases like it's on the record, it's off the record. You use this, you can't use that. But the give and take of real life conversation, as you're finding out Ryan with with talking to Mr Manning

um is just different. And I think what Phil forgot was that Alan's primary obligation is to tell readers what Phil Michelson's actually like and Phil was serving it up on a platter. What kind of reporter would allen by if he didn't use that? But for whatever reason, Phil forgot that or chose to forget that or didn't think you know, I don't know, We don't know what he was thinking. And that's of course what's going on here. But yeah, we know he has some impulse control issues, right,

Like that's been well documented. And he'd already said no to me three times, was much earlier. His agent had told him not to do it. But in the end he just couldn't help himself. He had to call and tell me how smart he was and out fox jam On and out fox Greg Norman, Like he just couldn't help it. Um, all right, well we are gonna follow the advice of Jake Bouldowney, our producer, who's gonna be

a recurring character on this podcast. So the listeners will probably be interesting to know that Jake was a longtime caddy abandoned dunes and that's how we actually all got to know him at the Uncle Tony Invitational. And but he had a he had a he had a dream of being in the golf media. He has a gift

for for a lot of the technical aspects. And so Jake produces this podcast, poor bastard, and he cuts all of our our socials and uh he's sometimes Danny's a Packers fan and and uh, it's been it's a tough scene I caught. I talked to Jake an hour before this and it was, I mean, full on depression, full on well, somewhat concerned for him, considered sending flowers. Uh, glad to see him on. I mean, it's it's a

tough scene. I think all Packers fans are obsessives, but Jake is a kind of Packers fan who dresses his dogs and Packers jerseys. So he's he's the lunatic fringe of Packers fan. But anyway, and it's funny that he texted you to wrap it up. Not me, um, very interesting, noted um. All right, So this was a fire drill podcast. We will be doing these every Sunday more or less, and we appreciate you guys out there listening and sticking

to the bitter end. Um. I think we should recognize our corporate sponsors, par Points, who have produced the most interesting golf scoring app available. It's kind of a freshing new way to play the game, and we would encourage you to download the app and test it out. It really is a adds a fun to mention UM and of course Dormy Workshop they make beautiful handcrafted leather goods for whether the head covers or any other little goodies

that will improve your life in different ways. So and some of their collaborations with the Firepit can be found on our website and UM I would encourage you to check that out as well. So thanks, thanks for thanks for being letting us be in your ear, and for Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. This is Alan Schef. We will be back at it again next Sunday with another fire drill. That's it A bit big, played to win, made a fortune, win my ship game and I ran

the table and never thought I could fall. Then the winter time hit me like a cannon the ball and now I can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take is a dead hand stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't you John nothing think what I'm thinking about about thoughts in my head? Can get him out and try and not to think what I'm thinking about. H