Fire Drill 042: State of the Union (Jack)

Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. We want to convene convene this discussion because it's the opening day of the new PGA Tour season, which sounds impossible since they just put it out at the Tour Championship. It feels like anyway, lots of big stuff happened at Wentworth. UH Live Chicago is going to kick off later this week. Just seemed like this was the moment to get up to up to date on everything happening in the golf world. So Michael, Ryan,

thank you for being here. Um, Mike, let's talk about the finish at Wentworth. It was it was a bang bang finished. You had you had Rory McElroy, you had John rom and then Shane Lowry prevailed. I mean it seems like like somehow the Wentworth Event has really become elevated to a different stratosphere in recent years. What is your take on on that tournament and where it fits into the larger golf landscape. Was that a registered trademard

trademark you said the word elevated, Yeah, Capital E. Craig. Okay, it felt like an elevated event. I mean except for one big except fifty four holes. It's like everything plays towards live in the end. But it was great. I mean, it's a it's a well known and excellent golf course, a well known, excellent field, and it kind of proves the point that less would be more if we had fewer events with more named players on courses you know,

don't care about, you would have better professional golf. That's not where we are. But for that one week, it was great and it was neat to see the difference to the Queen. Uh. Ryan and I have been talking about it. We don't really get it, but we get we get that they get it and they're doing what they're doing. So it was it was a great moment for golf in an unexpected time. Yes, Bryan, what's the view from Middle America about postponing a golf tournament in

UH in mourning of the passing of the Queen. My I was lucky enough to spend twelve hours in a car over the last two days prior to Friday and setting Wednesday and Thursday with Michael Bamberger, and we discussed a wide ranging things. But obviously the Queen came up, and I mean, I just she was ninety six. I mean, I mean, it's I don't get it. So and so we broke out into the song. Yeah, we're saying Elton John. Okay,

you can say the sex pistols that Elton John's more preferable. No, we we yeah, but we don't get it, but we yeah, Michael said it perfectly. We don't get it, but we get that other people get it. Uh, delaying sports and

all that seems wild to me. Uh, but I mean I'm not English, So I mean I heard this, you know about Pete Roselle, the old the longtime NFL commissioner like the biggest regret of his career was that they played football after JFK's assassination and that he felt like they should have shut it down, and uh, you know, I don't think the discourse that I landed onto it wouldn't have really been disrespectful to play the golf tournament, but it was a gowing of respect, not too and

so in that regard, you know, a president getting shot in the ninety six year old woman dying are two wild? Just I mean, you know, okay, we don't have to

go down this rabbit hole, but okay, it was. What I loved about the event is that golf has like true drama now and Taylor Gooch being in the mix, and and and Patrick read being in the mix, like it's somewhat kind of wrestling, like I mean, it is, you know, uh, it's it's really wild that in golf we have like true drama, true hatred, like true I mean, I was, I I'm kind of indifferent on live, but like I was rooting for a live guy just to see the awkwardness of the the trophy exchange and the

awkwardness of the of the interview and awkwardness of Pelly giving him the check. I was rooting for just Al and that's what we like to hear is new to the business, but he's rooting for the story. Well played, young man. Well played indeed, Yes, yeah, Ryan is is he gets it. We root for chaos. That's our only. We don't care what the humans evolved. We're just rooting

for anarchy. Yeah, that was that was funny. I mean, Taylor good, I don't think they showed a shot of his the whole final day with unbelievable He's raising on the board same as read the pettiness is unbelievable. I mean, what you know, Patrick Reid has actually been a great supporter of the European Tour. He's been playing over there a lot in the last five years, and he's he's got the box office from all the Ryder Cup dust ups.

Like I would think that the global golf audience would kind of like to see him hitting a few shots. But alan with all do hold hold on, I gotta make a quick point here, right if I may, With all due respect, he is not a great supporter of the European Tour or anything except for getting paid. He plays there to get paid. It all goes, it all goes the other way. Uh. I don't think he's buying the flag of the United States or anything other than

his his bank accounts. So I do take exception of that if I may, But you comment away as you may wish. But I do have a quick question for you. Had this tournament come the full seventy two scheduled holes, who do you? Who do you? How do you think it might have played out? Probably wrong? Wins by five um, But yeah, I mean it's interesting both Rom and Rory have been playing at such a high level, but they're

just not getting the winds. I mean, there's I've seen all these graphs about McIlroy's play since the Masters, and it's terrific. It's nothing but but but he's been in contention every single week, but he's won only twice, which you know, including getting skunked at the Majors. It's like, it's so, I know it's hard to win. We all know it's hard to win, but when you're up there that often sometimes you just gotta grab the MOFO trophy. And so I mean all credit to Rory for flying

across the ocean and bringing his a game again. You know, he's playing in Italy this week. It's not a terman he has to play, but he is a supporter of the European Tour. But it's um it's kind of frustrating to see him in contention all the time but not winning. Our expectations too high. I don't know, Michael, tell you, I don't know who ruder mc roy is. Well, you know I this has been said before and probably by

all three of us. Um. The one that got away, of course is that British Open and it didn't really get away. The guy shot thirty on him in on the back nine, and you know, no lead to safe when when the guy who's uh staring down his his shooting thirty on the back nine. Um, but he can't not say he doesn't have a Sunday problem. A fifty four whole events a little different and it would have

been very interesting to see how to play it out. UM. I have the feeling he might well have risen to the occasion, but Guch might have as well, so who knows, But it can't not be in his head at this point. And of course, when you're a mega talent uh like wory Roy is and you're not getting it done with the regularity that you should when you're in contention holes or sixty three holes like Tiger was. Literally let's say a hundred and ten times in his career and got

it done three quarters of those times. Let's say, um, I can't not be in his head and it's gonna show up at the most in opportunity moments like it did at the Old Course. Yeah, real quickly one Michael Bamberger just called the Open Championship the British Open too. Uh. Do you think that there's this is a real question that that. Do you think there's more pressure on Rory now because of this divide in progolf that he is truly the face of the PGA Tour for the most part.

I think people look to him as obviously with Tiger not playing that Rory's the true face of the tour now that these have they've divided. Do you think there's more pressure any any than there was even before. I don't know if that's possible, but just feels like with this divide that he's become kind of the face and him not cleaning up on Sundays seems to maybe, you know,

hurt a little bit. I asked him basically that same question at the Tour Championship few weeks ago, and he said, you know, all this advocacy and putting myself out there it's energizing when when you get things done and things are going your way, and it's really draining when when it goes the other direction. And so I think there's

something there. What you're what you're What you're hinting at, Ryan is I think it's easy for you know, Roy's been doing this for a long time, and I think this is this has gotten his his engine rebbed a little bit and he's fired up and he's probably more ready to play than he has been. But yeah, all of a sudden, you keep throwing yourself out there and it's not happening in that internal battle that Michael was talking about. Um, I think I think it's helping him

and it's hurting him simultaneously, if that makes sense. I'd just like to say I'd love Shane Lowry. He's all in on like the discourse in between the two tours. I mean, he's all in. He's like, I don't talk to those other guys. Uh. He has taken this, it seems pretty personally as I think a lot of players have, but maybe not publicly, and and Shane is fully in publicly that this is. Yeah, He's like, Hey, I don't

talk to those people. Anymore that some of them means to be my friends and now I don't talk to him at all. So I love that that he's kind of taking a personal edge and taking it publicly too. It's, as you say, it's fun to dive into Bryant. Bryan, do you have an insight into why he feels so strongly because he didn't grow up on that, He didn't grow up on our pH A Tour d pH A Tour. Do you have any insight as to why he feels

that way? No, I don't, but I mean I think through all of this, the dp World Tour or the European Tour has I mean, they've kind of admitted that they're a feeder tour, and I think if you grew up on like, wouldn't Shane and Uh, those guys grew up they didn't think of it at all like that, And the PGA tour has kind of made him feel like that in my opinion, they've kind of accepted it, in my opinion, and so the defections have hurt most.

I would say of the three tours we're talking about, live PGA Tour and the European the European Tour that it's hurt the European Tour by far the most, and so maybe he takes it more personally because it's really affected the tour, the European Tour the most in minds. That's good insight, but it's also weird because like Michael and I both worked at Golf Magazine golf dot Com

in the last few years. We both we both left it um for a better situation, clearly, but we see our old colleagues in the press room and we we wrap out with them like we you know, we bumped him on a golf course during the Open week, and we're happy to see each other. Like there's no animosity even though we're repudiating their place of business and we may in fact put them out of business at some point. But um, it's like I'm on some level that all

these players are taking it so personally. I find it a little weird, Like who cares? Like you're making money, they're making money. Everyone's playing golf for living, Like what's the big deal? Like it's great, it's a gift from the content gods. Yet again, but when when you you know, people change jobs all the time, and I don't I agree with that. I mean, you can agree disagree with it on a political sense obviously, like the Saudi Arabia

standpoint that's been you know, like hashed out. But like, at the end of the day, is anyone really mad that Harold Varner got thirty million and took it or whatever that number was, Like, is anyone mad? Like you can be mad that he left the PGA Tour, but like Harold was amazingly honest about it. He's like, hey, I will never be able to make this money on the PGA tour. It's going to change my kids and my kids kids life. It's generational money, and I took it.

Like I don't know who on the PGA Tour would be like, wow, what an asshole? You know, they'd be like yeah, I kind of get it. Yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon. And like I'm so I'm going to live Chicago, and my intention is to write about Taylor Gooch, who

was basically a nonentity on the PGA Tour. He was a nice young player that nobody knew about or cared about, it seemed like, and now he's at the center of every storm, and you know, his contract got leaked to The Wall Street Journal He figured very prominently in the temporary restraining order hearing when when he was trying to barge his way into the FedEx Cup, goes over to Wentworth, where it's been made clear to him that a lot of players don't want him there. He plays his ass off.

Has risen now back to the mid thirties in the world ranking, probably has enough points that he'll secure a Master's bid by by still being in the top fifty eight years end. And it's like Taylor Goocha somehow become the most important people in professional golf all of a sudden. It's wild and I'm here for it. Well, you see, I would. That's a good point, and it's interesting. And yeah, I didn't even know how to pronounce scooches surname or

we given name prior to this whole thing. Uh so, I you're right, it's just a kind of a nice player. It was interesting that Davis, I think, even Alan when you and I had him on Davis, you know, I can't recall the timing, but I know what Davis this at one point like I really hope this kid doesn't go. And that was interesting to me that Davis cared so much. But ran just go back to your point for a second.

I see Harold Varner or anybody else differently. This partly reflects my own my own feeling about the thing, and partly reflects those who are super traditionalists. I support the PGA tour types like a Fred Couples or Davis Love or any number of any number of other people. It's really more fundamental. I think that that maybe what you're suggesting,

which is this tour made you who you are. The opportunities that this PGA tour gave you made you who you are, and you're turning your back on it um And I think some people, just in the most basic level, some people resent that. Michael, I agree with you. I'm not I'm not again. I mean, I obviously don't support like I first of all at the Saudi government side, but let's just go with no cut, fifty four holes guaranteed money you everyone knows listening. That's not my cup

of tea. So I have no support of the live tour. But this is true in any other sport, I mean, every other sport, Like there is no loyalty that that's gone, you know, I mean, I know Albert Pools is back with the Cardinals. But he left the Cardinals, and uh, you know, I mean, every major sports star in every major sport besides golf leaves. I mean, for the most part, very few people play one place in one career. It's

new to golf. So I get that people are torn. Obviously, the the political side of it makes it even more. But like at the end of the day, is is, uh, if Stephen Curry leaves the Warriors, is anybody on the Warriors are really gonna be mad? No, Because when they're in a free agent and they get a big check to go to another team, they're gonna go. So I I appreciate what you're saying, Michael, I agree with what

you're saying. I just don't think that. I just don't think it's that Like, I just don't see why the players are so mad about it. The franchise in the NBA is the NBA, not so much the individual team. Individual fans of individual cities are going to be annoyed and and upset. Um, but the NBA is not gonna not gonna hurt as a result. Here is more in the front to the actual league itself. Leaving the league

to go to another league. You know pool hosts had gone to Japan and then wanted to come back, come back from Major League Baseball, that would be roughly more of the equivalent not not staying within the major league team fair. Yeah, that's that's that is a distinction. But

I don't know. I mean, if if you grew up rooting for a team and they draft a young player and they nurture him, they develop him, and they pour all these resources into make him a great player, and then he leaves for another team like that, that's sort of analogous as well. So I think the metaphor of

works either way. But it's um, it's just yeah, it's amazing how this just keeps going and uh, the you know, all the guys playing over the pettiness is amazing, Like taking camp Smith's picture down, Like what are we doing? Like we're we're children. Were like it's amazing and I'm here for it. I mean, like, is that really what we're doing? Like we have to go out now. The PGA tour has a million things to worry about. And that someone called somebody at at Sagrass and was like,

you gotta take camps parking passed down? I mean, is the next level pettiness. Um, well, Ryan, how how would you have voted on Player of the Year Shuffler versus Cam or anybody else you might suggest? I would have voted for Carl you want from the corn Ferry Tour. Don't I'm not voting for uh. I mean it's probably Scottie, but I don't. Honestly, Michael, this is the honest truth. I don't watch outside of the majors. Don't watch very much PG tour golf unless a a the grinder of

some sort is in in place like Wentworth is. I watched three holes. I just don't have much The rich getting richer is just not that much interest that of interest to me. I understand. I always say this is people get on this and go oh, I can't believe it, Like I understand why people want to watch it. I get it. I'm talking personally. Watching the million dollars he

wanted Wentworth changes his life zero. The only reason it has a little more meaning is because of the drama in UH in golf right now, and and the fact that he people really really even the top players really really want to win now. To stick it to the other tour it lived, guys want to live, you know, stick it to the PGA guys and the European guys and vice versus. So I do like that part of it. There is a sense of uh drama that um that wasn't there before. I mean when Billy Horshell won last year,

no one really cared, you know. I mean it's all these tournaments have some meaning because of the discourse. And I'm glad you brought that point up, Michael, because you wrote an excellent column for Firepit Collective dot com about the Player of the Year voting and um, I personally would have given the award to camp Smith. I mean, he had one of the signature blowouts of the year, um to start in at Cappela, which is I think

one of the best courses on tour. And then you know, the PGA Tours hurting themselves in this debate because they've insisted for so long now that the Players should be a major championship. Well, in that case, camp Smith won two majors. You know, he won the Players and and he won the biggest term of the year, which is the Open at St. Andrews. That's bigger than the Masters,

It's bigger than the US Open. When the Open is at St. Andrews is a crown jewel of the support and every player talked about it, and and Cam won that and a legendary performance. And you know, Scheffler was terrific, but um, he could have ended the debate at the Door Championship and he kind of shrank from the moment. And um, you know, for me, camp camp Smith is

a Player of the Year. And when the writers Associate of America we get our ballots, that's what I'm gonna vote for, um, And so we once again the writers may have to rectify or wrong, but there was there was a, of course, a political undercurrent to the player of that you're voting is Ryan is suggesting like tease that out a little bit, Michael, like, how did how did this current moment get reflected in the Player of the Year. You know it really it's a really interesting debate,

and I'm totally with you. And open anywhere is obviously a great, great achievement, but an open up the old course, rises to to another level. And I would say, just in term of a crowning achievement of one's career, it is more significant to win an open. It's kind of ridiculous to say, but it's harder to win an open up the old course. It's a bigger field, it's a tougher field, it's a quirkier golf course. Um. You know, as you know, because you're you're in the piece. And

we had this discussion. Uh, we've been down this store before where where these votes have gotten politicized and all on to your point, not to rehash the whole thing, but two thousand and thirteen, tire at a funky year won five times on the PGA Tour and by a vote of his PGA Tour brethren, was named player Player of the Year. But the writers who look at or

in our case, uh, the golf writers descciation of America. Um, we're supposed to look at the whole year, playing the whole world, and we voted for Adam Scott is Player of the Year. I have a big memory that he

won in Australia once or maybe more than once that year. Um. But as as we've been discussing allan, it shows how this live PHA tour thing has been has politicized and its tentacles are reaching all through golf and we're definitely gonna see it at the next Major, which not the Prisidon's Cup, which not major, but the uh but the Masters if it's down the stretch, if it's Taylor Gooch and Bubba Watson and Dustin Johnson, and then you know Rory McElroy and you know guys who are bedrock PHA

Tour supporters. Uh, you know that Augustine National is gonna be rooting its body muff for a PGA Tour player to win. Uh where that would not have been the case, you know, hid Deck or anybody else, that would not

have been the case a year ago. Well and yeah, the the it's in your piece, but like to me, this player of the year, the result is the beginning of how we have to rethink all these traditional status markers in golf, because what does it mean to get the world to number one in the world ranking right now when the best player in the world, Kemp Smith,

is not going to be a cruing points? And what does you mean to get in the top fifty when there's a dozen top fifty players playing live who are who are not getting points and so um, if you if you win, if you win PGA Tour events going forward doesn't have the same meaning. Is in in the old days, you know, like to say the peak Tiger, Like, let let's say some kid comes along next year and uh or any player for that matter wins like nine times, and they're comparing it to like the great PGA Tour

seasons of all time. Well, it doesn't have the same meaning because some top players aren't there now. Um And so yeah, no that's or no, so we got when when you were posting that, were you saying I'm the pH A Tour or or on the Lift Tour. Well either way either Yeah, winning at PGA Tour event doesn't mean as much if you don't have to beat Dustin Johnson,

Brooks Kepka and Cam Smith and all these other guys. Um. And of course, you know, I saw some discourse around Taylor Goots how well he's playing, you know, great finish that wentworth and he's finished top ten and all four live events, and it's really the first time I've seen that even cited where someone someone used live results in a serious way. But like Taylor Gooch is playing in

an extremely high level. I mean, to finish top ten four in a row against a short field fifty four hold is not easy to do, Like you have to you have to do. You can't afford even one bad round, and so, um he's playing great. But do do we cite those live results as having a meaning or not? I don't know. I don't know where we are on this thing, you know. Uh no, go ahead, Michael, I'm gonna listen to you. No stalemate, I refuse, I refuse, Okay,

Uh real quickly? Uh why why we can interrupt each other and stand all over court our great producer Jake, who's behind the scenes you can't see us. I would like to remind us that uh par Points app that is the sponsor that makes this all possible. Look at yeah, look Vamburgers give me the thumbs up for this transition into our sponsor. But Part Points is a great, uh app awesome new way to play golf. Uh usually Alan

does this, and I usually make fun of him. So uh I hate that I have to do it now that Jake text me because I'm gonna probably screwed it up and now I'm gonna make fun of me. But power Points is an awesome way, a new way of scoring on the golf. Download the app right now and uh make part so thanks to Part Points Michael. Your turn now, Ryan, Ryan, have you met the guys I have? They're wonderful. Uh you did? You did well? Ryan, And

whatever you messed up, I wouldn't. I wouldn't bring it to light because I have respect for the process and I have respect for the sponsor. My post a question, Yes, please, Okay, this conversation, it's interesting, slash tetious. It shows the conversation itself is proof that live golf has been a tremendously disruptive factor in golf already. Disruption does not happen on its own. Disruption. You know, let's not go political, but we all know what I could say here, disruption. Disruption

happens willfully with the goal. And I know I've been down this road before. Alan. I know you're reporting it as best you can, and it's difficult to report. Who is benefit benefiting from this disruption and what is their endgame? That's my question to either of you. All the players are benefiting because literally billions of dollars is getting poured

into professional golf that didn't exist before. So clearly the players, their families, their agents, the caddies, the swing coaches, the entire ecosystem professional golf is benefiting UM, and that that trickles all the way down to the Asian Tour and their national series, which is now much better capitalized, has become a launching pad for a lot of young players

who are trying to make it UM. You would think at some point the tours we have to pour more money into the corn ferry and and Latin America and Canada try and keep up. I mean, so professional golfers are benefiting. I don't think there's any question about that. Our fans benefiting. I mean, it's certainly it's been a very juicy year. There's been a lot of a lot of UM energy around the sport that didn't exist before. And we know from our own metrics when these stories

come out about live golf, people are reading them. So right now they're getting to watch on you you commercial free high level golf. I think some of them are enjoying it. UM. The tours are gonna have to improve its product clearly, So the players are definitely benefiting. I think the fans are probably benefiting. The typing class like us, is certainly benefiting because it's been it's been so much

to talk about UM. But yeah, I mean I know what you're getting at from a geopolitical macro sense, Michael like that that becomes anising question. Is no one really knows the Saudia's endgame because they haven't said it out loud. I've been I've been trying to get interviews with some some of the top guys who are involved in this live effort. Hopefully that will still happen. I would like

to hear from them. But um, you know, the sports washing is it's It's interesting because there's been more scrutiny around Saudi Arabia and it's influence in the world than ever before in a sporting context because people are asking hard questions and they're looking at this stuff. So I don't know if the sports washing is working or not and maybe backfiring because there's been so much criticis is Saudi Arabian people are tuned in and and have been

forced to think about it in a different way. But certainly the um, you know, the Saudi's have gotten to see the table professional golf was, which is what they really wanted, and so in that regard has been successful. So um, I don't know, a lot of people are benefiting, but how it's gonna play out in in the long long term is it's still unknown? What are your thoughts, Ryan, Yeah, I mean I agree with everything you said the the I think in the short term, the answer is everyone

has won. We've won. Obviously, the media has tons to talk about this time of year. Would be very, very boring if it If it was not this fight. Players have won. Players that either left or stayed have one UM.

But I I'm concerned in the long run that we are headed for to live tours UM and or the Saudis believe that they don't want to do this anymore and they're sick of spending money and they get out, and then there's a huge fight of where these players go and there might not be allowed back, or they are allowed back, or the PJ tour doesn't exist and somebody's keep going. I don't think this is sustainable as

it as it stands. So I'm concerned about obviously, the guys I cover UM, I'm concerned for them because they are, whether people like it or not, they're getting squeezed out. And I'm afraid that this tour within a tour model just doesn't have a lot of legs. I'm not sure why these sponsors would want to spend millions of dollars for an event with no top players. They already have that that's called the corn Ferry tour um And I

don't know if it's sustainable. The short term answer, everyone wins. Uh. The long term answer, maybe a lot of people don't win. So uh, I think right now everyone wins. I mean, Harry Varner just got thirty million dollars. Uh, Taylor Goods got fifty or whatever. Uh, everybody's getting paid. All the top players are getting paid. In fact, guys that I cover, if they got their card, they're getting five thousand dollars. I mean, like just handed to him right now. And

uh that's wild. Um. So I hope that all the money doesn't love touch with what a lot of us love about pro golf. So the short term, everyone wins. In the long term, I hope, I hope not just a small group of Well, Ryan, I think that last point for me is the key one. I think professional golf has taken a hit through this, and I think

it showed a greedy underbelly professional golf. And and I know I probably have romanticized my attachment to professional golf for a lot of years now, but this has to mean, this whole thing has to mean professional golf to me. So I think I think professional golf is in a worst place because of all this disruption, rather than a better place. I would take a different view. I've yeah, I think very short term. I've also been appointed Michael with uh and Alan with like some of the top

players kind of forgetting where they came from. Um I used I used Billy Horshall a lot. You know, Billy likes to say that, you know that the top players should get paid and all those kind of things. Uh, Billy Horshell went to que school four times. Okay, he couldn't literally sniff keeping his card, And now all of a sudden he's all for you know, seventy guys and limited field offense and all that kind of thing. So, UM,

I had this. I had this discussion with John Maganeese on Twitter, and he said, you know, if you finished sixty on the on the Canadian Tour, you shouldn't make money, you should you should probably just quit. And and then I just sent a list of them of people that have finished you know, Joel Damon or Maxima or whatever. The long list of players that take time to develop. So, um yeah, it's been I agree with you, Michael, I think very short term it is, but uh, we'll see

what happens. Well that that's that's really well said. Um So in addition to we have the live of in Chicago, were coming off of Wentworth. There's another big thing happening, which is the start of the new PGA Tour season in NAPA and today is the first Monday qualifier. And Ryan, as I understand it from talking to you offline, this this is a this is a mega Monday. Like why are these Mondays in this fall going to be so stacked? Yeah? Um,

first of all the Monday's. Uh so if you lost your corn fish, so it's going to be deep in the Monday weeds. So I can just hear people that's why you're here, not nerds. Yeah they're not nerds. Yeah, they're like, oh this is this is the end of the podcast. Um. So the so if you're if you finished below seventy technically before below technically lost your corn ferry card, but uh you keep it to the end of the calendar year and to get into a Monday

you must be a one ferry member. So everybody who's was on the corn Ferry Tour but lost their card is technically a still member. So they're trying to take their last shot at a glory by getting into a Monday, getting into a PGA event and you know, changing their life. So you have all those guys, you have every current corn Ferry member. They don't have anything to do, They don't play anything till January, so they might as well go take a shot at a Monday. Uh, and you

know you have. I mean, so that makes up like great great Mondays right now. I mean it's basically a mini corn corn Ferry event uh every week. And then you have the mixture of normal vets. Uh. Aaron Badley, five time PGA Tour winner, is a Monday grinder nowadays. Uh, Grayson Murray, the all the everybody loves to hate. Um. I mean it's it's a long list of of of people that you know, you you would know, d J. Trey Han, uh, Ted Purdy, Allen, Steve Allen, Brian Davis,

the regular veterans. So, um, these are always great Mondays. And then I will also say this is obviously the end of the uh the fall series. Now whatever next year is going to be But these events are vital to these fifty guys that just got their tour cards either back or earned it on the corn Ferry Tour. The they have to move up in the reshuffle or they don't want to move down if they're up, and so uh, it's kind of wild the two weeks after

their season ended. They're gonna play some of the most important events of their season in the next couple of weeks because they're gonna get into all the events and they have to play well because the reshuffle comes uh in five or six weeks, and they need to get multiple starts. If they finished down, if they miss all these cuts, finished way down, they're not. They're gonna get ten starts the rest of the year, twelve starts the rest of the year. So um, these are these are

This is a very important week. I love that there's a week off in between. He used to be just roll from the corn Ferry finals to this week a lot unfair to these guys, but um, yeah, this is an important weekend and great and the Mondays this fall are are all always great. Yeah. Well, and it's it's um a little bit of preview of of the two thousand,

twenty three tour s cancel. Right, There's gonna be these mega events that all the stars are committed to, but there's gonna be a lot more of these other events, which are, um, in some ways the purest form of golf competition. It's it's saving two holes, it's stroke play, it's guys playing for their livelihoods. Um, there's an era, you know, an air of of desperation and um, and it is it's really the ultimate meritocracy. So while while these fields are not gonna have many big name players,

they're still it's gonna be super compelling golf. So this will be the test, like, are you a hardcore golf fan or are you watching the fort neet Championship this week? Um, you're not gonna get Rory, You're not gonna get j T. You're not gonna get any of the live guys obviously, and um, but there's there's gonna be a lot of a lot of good accomplished players and um, you know,

fighting hard. So this is this is the beginning of of, you know, the new reality on the PGA Tour where two thirds of the events are going to feel like the super Ryan in the weed question. But these Monday qualifiers, they're not the property to the PHA Tour or it tell me if that's correct. Are they typically run by uh sectional PGA of America's sections And if that is the case, can they run by yes? Can the sections prevent a lived player from Monday qualifying is as unluckily

as that is. So so that is a great debate because the article, the letter sent to players uh JA said you can't get into a field based on your status or a sponsors exemption or any other way, So there is some I my the best guests from the people I talked too is that even if the section allowed them to play, they would just not be allowed to play in the PGA Tour event if they got through.

So um, yes, yes they're run by the section, but there I mean, there's very little debate that they would ever get into the event even if they were allowed to play in them Monday. So um, that was the question I wanted to ask Phil at the at the press the original US Open Press conference, and Christine Brennan ruined my thunder and took read a paragraph and a half question And I didn't feel like after that asking

about Monday qualifiers it was appropriate. Well, this is again in the education of Ryan French, like you have to overcome all of all press room challenges, including a Christine Brennan filibuster, So that's on you. You should have rose the occasion. I apologize um this this again since since we're in the wee it's with the czar of all Mondays. Why does the PGA Tour not take over the Monday qualifiers? And to me, it's kind of weird that they farm them out to the PGA of America, which is a

totally different organization. You're not gonna believe this. You're not gonna believe this everybody. But it's because the PGA Tour makes a shipload of money on Mondays and there's no reason for them to do it. They let other people do it. They take most of the entry fee from it. They get very wealthy from it. Uh, And that's that's the fact of the matter. The PGA section has to give a large portion of the entry fee to the PGA Tour, then the rest to the golf course, very

little to themselves. Uh. Most PJA sections that I've talked to that if they have to travel, if they have to have their staff travel um away from their base. They break even at best on Monday's. The person who gets wealthy that would be the PGA Tour. So that's the reason. It's Uh, it's quite quite shifty of the PGA Tour to be able to collect a large portion of an entry fee that for an event they don't run. I am shocked. I am absolute shocking. It's shocking news.

But I mean again, like Monday, Tuesday Wednesday are the deadest days of the golf week. Like you would think that if the tour took these over, they could play them at t pc s and more legit courses and it could be like a whole thing. Like um, it just seems like a missed opportunity in their business model, Like these are their players and they're trying to get into their events. I don't really understand why they haven't invested more in the Mondays. Yeah, I mean, they've definitely changed.

We don't want to get into that story. But a person made helped in the and his followers helped make Monday at a thing, and now they cover it. They cover it by themselves from social media perspective, So, um, I first see a time. I'm mean obviously the landscape of golf is changing greatly, so who knows what's coming up next with only seventy players exempt And does that mean Monday's are back to the rabbit days and all

those kind of things. So it's an interesting thing, but um yeah, I don't I can see that happening at some point, Alan, I mean, you know I always have said is that the guys that I cover and and girls on the LPGA side are so much willing more willing to do other things that it wouldn't have to be a traditional broadcast or anything like that. But guys would wear Mike's and they don't give a ship. You know, you can make up their caddie and them they don't

have anybody to answer to. Uh, you could interview them in the middle of the round. I've done all of these things, so you I mean, I think from a like, whether it's social media wise or you know, a ten minute clip about one Monday's do, I think you could do it a lot of interesting things broadcasting wise. Uh. So I wouldn't be surprised to see them do more stuff.

Go Ryan, what what is Ryan? What is Patrick Reid's standing among in the culture of Monday Qualifiers, and maybe you could sum up for our listeners why he's a legend in Monday, in the in the annals of Monday qualifying in the first place. I mean he is, you know, I mean he's the ultimate Monday qualifier. He turned it into who he is now. I mean he wasn't. He got a few sponsors exemptions, but his reputation was was not great back then and so U exemptions were hard

to come by. He qualified six times I think in eight tries. Justine was on the bag for him. Uh and a lot of that time was I mean he played well after that, Michael too, So he would make the cut on Sunday, fly to the next course, you know, late Sunday night, get in early Monday morning, get up and shoot sixty six again, and do it again and again. Uh. I mean he's he's the ultimate successful Monday quality fire

for sure. Um. You know t J Vocals, someone I talked about all the time, made eight in one year but didn't do much with it. Uh So, but yeah, he's the ultimate Monday qualifier for sure. Uh. Have people tagged me since this Matt More story came out and made me try to find who we played within those Monday qualifiers and whether everything was on the up and up. Yes, A lot of people have diag me in that and asked me that I was just gonna go there. I was just gonna go because no fans, no TV cameras,

His fiancee is his caddy. Like this is the problem with when you when you have a series of rules violations like Patrick Reid has, makes you rethink everything. And Monday qualifiers are quite frankly, quite easy to cheat at Uh it's you and at most at most six people in a group meaning most of the time, not every but he has a caddy. There. There's two rules officials covering the entire front nine Uh, I mean the entire eighteen. There's no very often no volunteers. There's you know, between

three and six people in a group. You hit it left and the other two guys hit it right, like pretty easy. I would like to point out that this is protected free speech and that we are no way suggesting that we have any evidence of any story that Patricks anything or any other time except for the one in Albany where we all saw it on TV. And no, it's I mean and the time and the books and all that kind of stuff. But no, it's it's I mean, I guess you don't think about you said earlier in

the pod Michael about professional golf has been diminished. And it is interesting. You know, Ryan's beat, unwittingly has become about uh, these shysters, we're stealing money running these mini tour events and they just disappear, and then cheating, cheating incidents, and then you've got all the players, you know, just slavishly chasing after the dollars, not all, some of some of have taken a somewhat principled stance, although they've been

induced by PGA tour dollars to stay. But it is it is an interesting moment in the game where I guess some of that romanticism has been exploded. And um, maybe it's part of professional golf growth, right, like as if it's going to really reach this global audience and it's going to have these two different tours and it's gonna be on the business page and the front page.

Um as time as time that we moved past our romanticism and see it for what it is, which is a game full of human beings who are inherently flawed and there's gonna be some messiness. I don't know. I know it makes you melancho, it does. I know I've said there's a million million times, but it is the underpinion of the whole thing. If we don't believe the scores, we don't have professional tournament golf in the first place.

And I would put that's one A. But one B is if it's only about the money, then why should we care because we're not getting We're not getting anything out of it. In other words, if it's and the reason a lot of us are still attracted to the old equipment is because golf was harder when we had Alan and I had a conversation with a with another writer recently. I'm not gonna reveal his name for reasons

Alan will understand. Who talked about one particular shot played by Tommy Bolt, was that do I have the name correct? Was a bolt that he was describing, and it was the lie and what he was gonna do with it and how he was going to fly it. And that

is the attachment for us to professional golf. What they're going to do with the golf ball, what they're gonna do to beat the course, to beat the other guy, whatever it might be, the money comes as a result, and the starting point has to be the score is sacred, we believe it, and the money is a byproduct of the excellence. Those are the one and two factors that

make us drawn to professional golf. The reason Ryan's beat is so great, it's because they still have that Himie our friend Himie Diaz used to say this all the time that if you wanted that spirit of the PG tour, it says to me, Michael that you grew up on in the seventies, Now you're going to find it on corn Ferry. And that's what Ryan is kind of in his own way discovering now. So yes, I think you're right about a sort of melancholy tone for me, because

I do think there's something under attack. You're fundamental about the greatness of the game, and we've already seen it. Not already, that's be unfair. I fear we're going to see it filter down to a great institution like the Masters. Say what you want about Augusta National, and we can all say a lot about it, but they do put on a great springtime tournament. It does welcome us to the new golf season and We do have special attachment

to the guys who have won it. We know what they did to win it because we watched it and it's hard and it's interesting. And then they gather as comrades or colleagues on that Tuesday night for that dinner, and now that dinner is different. So there is a lot going on here and I don't view it as a positive at all. Where's Gary player gonna sit. I'm gonna say he's gonna he's gonna be seated with the live guy. They might as well put up a fence and put him right on it because he's been teetering

back and forth. Don't fall down, Gary whole. That was heavy, Michael. Michael got heavy on us right there. It's it's a gift from the content gods, because this is just a boring Monday in September. The Masters many months away. It's not a Wryder Cup year. What would we really be talking about. But this has been quite a lively podcast.

You know. There used to be a Saturday a live bit where they'd have like the two Fuddy Duddy Ladies on some PBS type show in New England and they had a listenership about three and it was so bad and so obscure that Saturday Live could turn it into a bit. I'm afraid they might turn our whole thing into a bit. Like these guys think they're I think they're talking to an audience. There is there is no audience.

There's just each other. I was I was telling Michael Bamberger, and this is really this is how our podcast go. They get off the they get off the rails. Uh, Michael Bamberger. I asked him as we were playing together on last Monday, I said, how many presidents have you met? And he countered him up and he's said five or whatever he said. And then I mean, a rolodex is a who's who of who's who? And uh. And I said, man, you are now playing golf at Alpina Golf Club with

Monday q info. I'm not sure this is a testament to where your career has gone. And it's just like, holy shit, you've interviewed Jerry Ford. You've uh. I mean, man, I'm so sorry, Michael. I I don't even know what to say. I'm I I feel so inadequate around your presence, by the way, the twelve hours and this is honest, this is the truth the greatest. I tried my best. I don't shut up often. I tried my best to shut up and just listen. And the guy has to hp me a lot. Both of these people on this

on this podcast, that taught me a lot. That's very nice. The only the only thing I'm gonna say in response to that is I did have multiple telephone numbers for Sam Sneed. That's a podcast in itself that Sam Steed had multiple phone numbers. Yeah, he had the Burner his time on the Burner phone. Yeah, he had a second phone ahead of everybody else. I think that's true. He had yet he had a summer residence and a winter residents likely story. All right, well a signal. I don't

know what it is. Second Oh god, no, no, oh no, oh my god, please be somewhat amazing, Please be somewhat amazing. It's Sam Sneed. I've got I'm having lunch with my dad, all right. Despite what you said earlier, Despite what you said earlier, people do listen to these podcasts, and I think it's time to release them. So this have been another fire drill. God, I would I would like to

just say, hid Mr ship Breck. They years ago, twenty years ago, there was a US open an Olympic and the guy came around and he was spit and he looked like he had been rock climbing or surfing that day. And I said, your ship, who's your buddy? And Alan said, it's my dad anyway, your dad A two still going strong. All right, this was good fun. We'll see what Jake leaves in the edit or not, because it was the few diversions, but that's what that's what we do. Uh.

We will keep these fire drills coming. And U for Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. This is Alan Schipnuk signing off. Thanks for listening, Thank you part points and we'll do it again soon. Big and doing made a fortune. I ran the table and thought them a wintertime hit me like a cannon the ball and now I can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in my head, can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm thinking about.

I got thoughts in my head, I can't get him out, and trying not to think what I'm thinking about