Fire Drill 041: Center of the Storm

I'm thinking about. Welcome back to their Fire Drill podcast. This is Alan Schipnuk. I am joined by Ryan French at home in Michigan and we have our special guest to stay, Andy Ogletree, coming into hot from Alfreda, Georgia. Before we get to then, and let me just thank our sponsors who make this stuff possible. Of course, we have part points our favorite golf scoring app our friends

at Dormy Workshop. They make beautiful Artisano leather goods. We sell them at the fire Pit Collective dot com in the in the fire Pitch Shop and the code is fire Drill. You get a nice discount. We always appreciate our our corporate sponsors to let us do cool things like this. So we want to welcome into Andy Ogletree of course US Open champ who's had a US Open taking upgrade man, my apologies. Yes, US amateur champ who has had a non traditional start to his professional career.

We're gonna we're gonna talk about that and his um, his dalliance would live golf and where it all goes from here. So Andy, thank you for doing this. I really appreciate you. Yeah, thanks for having me. Guys looking forward to it. So, so let's talk about the the US am A victory. You know, it's obviously a career highlight. It was it was just played recently and we were all tuned into a pretty epic match. It's a very

exclusive fraternity. I mean, as the years go by and you look back on that victory, how much does it mean to you in reflection? Yeah, like you said, the years of have gone by, for sure. It's uh, it's kind of old news at this point, and when I think back, it seems like such a long time ago. So many things have happened since then. But obviously it's just special memories. Um, what a great week, and it's opened the door to a lot of opportunities for me. So I owe a lot of what I'm able to

do now thanks to that week. And you know that week was That week was super cool. I can't wait to can't wait to talk about it. Remember it a little bit. I mean, it does touch off this this unusual almost like internship. Right, you have to stay an amateur to cash in these great exemptions, and it creates a little bit of a limbo. Remember Bryson D. Shambo called it an internship when when he was the USA Champion, because for me, it locked me in for about another

year and a half. Um Traditionally, when you win the us AM um, it looked like everything was gonna come into place, perfect, perfect for me. I won the us AM after my junior year of college. I had always stay, planned to stay four years and graduate from Georgia Tech UM. So I win the U s M after my junior year. Everything's great. I'm gonna play my senior year. I'm gonna play the Walker Cup. All these dates are kind of

lining up perfectly. I'll play the Masters in November, and then I'll play the um n C Double A championship in turn pro, and hopefully play seven events on the PGA tour UM that season. I kind of had all of that lined up for that summer, and then COVID happened. So I think it was March fourteen that the world kind of shut down. UM our senior season got canceled. They announced all spring sports and n C Double A will be canceled starting March fourteen. There's gonna be no championships,

you know. All that stuff happened, so that happens. The Masters gets postponed in November. We don't really know when we're gonna play any tournaments. I have a couple of sponsor exemptions that I can still play UM as an amateur, obviously because their direct qualifications for winning the US am So those were the invitationals UM Colonial. I could have played bay Hill, UM I didn't play because of a college event, but I could have played bay Hill and

then Hilton Head and Memorial. So I played all of those UM that summer. So that gave me something to play in which was great. And then I waited until November obviously to turn pro. And after the Masters, I mean that it's always a challenge for the U s am champ to kind of balance the business in life and the opportunities you're turning down. I mean, what did you give up by staying an amateur? I mean, did you have offers on the table to get turn professional

right away? Yeah? I mean, obviously I could have turned profession on and played that summer. I probably just would have moved up my timeline. Um, I would more than likely going to get seven events on the PGA Tour, and um so I could have gone ahead and taken my seven events that summer, and you know, obviously three of those were I would have just played the same term as I played anyway, um being Colonial, Hilton Head,

and Memorial. So I would have had those, and then I would have hopefully gotten four more sponsor invites throughout the summer. But I mean, when it all turned out, I basically didn't turn down much to wait until November. I just had to wait until November. Um, some some unfortunate events happened after November that you know, kind of set me back a little bit and made my route

much more untraditional. Andy, Just to be clear, like if if the Masters was played at its normal time that year, you would have played the Masters and then turned pro and got seven exemptions as a pro right and then obviously like Flee, Yeah, so I would have played the Masters in April, I would have played the n C Double A Championship at the end of May, and then I would have turned pro early June and hopefully played seven events including the US Open, and I would have

been able to play all those as a pro. Just for those listening, and then what that would have done to Andy's career is he plays those as a pro gett non member points. If he plays decent enough, at minimum, he's in the corn Ferry finals with the chance to get is PJ Tour card or at at worst be a full member of the corn Ferry Tour. So the timing of COVID and all of those things really obviously

worked against And in this case, that wasn't just me. Obviously, that was a lot of players earning pro that year, and there was no Q school that following fall, so everybody was basically in a limbo state for a year and a half to two years. It was great for the guys that had their tour card already, and it was great for the guys who maybe played bad on tour and got an extra year, or maybe you know, got some guys got stuck on the corn Ferry Tour for two seasons that we're going to qualify for the

PGA Tour. So there was a lot of guys that got you know, dealt a bad hand from that that timeline, but my situation was definitely unfortunate. So so fast forward now that takes us all the way through the end of two thousand twenties. So you get into early and you don't have a ton of options, right, what what was your making in pro? The week after the Masters obviously another special week for me and finished in low Am,

and that whole experience was so cool. Getting to play with Tiger and getting to be in Butler cabin at the end of the week and all the stuff that came with that was awesome. It was a great segue into me turning pro. Um. I kind of accomplished everything I wanted to do as an amateur, and then you know, everything was unfolding. I was so hopefully going to get

my seven events on the PGA Tour. I hoped, and I had a lot lined up and I played in three before having hip surgery, so um, everything was kind of still in place. I hadn't lost much at that point. I was just basically delayed six months of my prolier process um from kind of when I thought I would be doing this this step in my career. It was basically six months after but played three events and then had to had to have hip surgery. So that was

obviously detrimental. You know. I played those events hurt. I thought I could kind of tough it out. I was like, you know, maybe I can, maybe I can at least play well in a couple events to get me enough points to get into corner pretty finals and then kind of go that route. But I wasn't able to get there, and I didn't play well in my events. I realized I couldn't compete against you know, some of the best players in the world when I wasn't feeling fully healthy.

So I needed to get that figured out, and you know, I had to had to go have surgery. When did you sustain I don't. I don't really for a specific day or like a specific event that happened. I was like, oh, you know, that was that moment that tore my hip. But um, I had a torn laboram and a cam F A I impinchment, so basically extra bone girth around the hip socket and all the rotation on my left

hip over time just tore my labram in half. And I was bowling on bawn and it was just I was having a hard time walking, much less turning hitting the golf ball. So I played. I started the year um out at Tory Pines. Played there, played okay, but missed the cut. Played batt on the south course and didn't take advantage of the north. And then the next week was a Monday qualifier in Scottsdale, so I went

from Tory to Scottsdale. I was gonna play the Monday, and then I was in the next week at Pebble Beach. And that week in Scottsdale, I remember my hip just killing me. And I didn't Monday, but Alie Snydergean's and I stayed out in Scottsdale because it's a great place to practice. It's cold in Atlanta. We didn't want to come home, so stayed out there in practice all week and I was like, man, my hips just killing me.

And then I get to Pebble Beach the next week and I was just I was smoked, not mean, my my hip was in such pain, and I kind of suffered through that week and then drove down to l A. I was gonna play Riviera the next week. I was in there, and so I get to Riviera and I had to withdraw on Monday. And I took like a month off before Punta Kana and gave it one lass, one last more right, and I just wasn't able to

do it. So I called my surgeon walking off the eighteenth green, I said, schedule it, um, let's go ahead and must do the hip surgery. So um, in that month between Riviera and Punta Kana, I went and had imaging done and he told me, you know, I was gonna have to have the surgery within a few months. He just didn't know when it would be. He said,

you know, you'll know when the time's right. So I called him after Punta con insist, I know the times right, let's do it that And I knew if I if I had the surgery, then then I could play Q School that that year, and that was kind of my hope, UM at least be able to play Q School and give myself hopefully guaranteed status. UM that was kind of

the goal. A whole time. So that was the reason I want to have the hit surgery Andy, I mean take us back to just like trying to work through the you know, play through the pain, because I mean, I think a very few people kind of understand how fleeting in the politics and all the stuff that goes on with sponsors, exemptions, even if you're the U. S. M. Champ. I mean, you're out six months and it's like quickly for people forget who you are. So you're just like,

I gotta take advantage of it. Yeah, that's very well said. Um, people forget very quickly. Golf very much a game of what can you do for me right now? And you know rightfully, so you want to take the take the players that are hot, and take the players that, um kind of have have done something recently so they're sponsoring vites are very hard to get, and fortunate for me,

I was able. You know, it was soon enough after the low am with the Masters that people kind of were still remembering me and I was able to get all the sponsor invites starting out that year. But after hip surgery, UM, it was a little different. I wasn't able to get any sponsor invites and we'll get into some of that after after Q school and kind of, um what happened after that? But UM, yeah, this, the

sponsor invites are very hard to get. I think they're hard to get on the corn Ferry Tour than even the PGA Tour. And for reasons we don't. We don't have to. One day we'll tell that story. That's a different UH. There's there's a lot of polics that go involved in UH and and those sponsor invites on both tours. I think. So. Um, after hip surgery, I was feeling great. I had a great six months recovery and um, everything was looking good. Um, I was playing some good golf.

I went and my first tournament back was a g Pro Tour event September, and uh, I was advanced to second stage. So I wanted to play a little bit of golf before I went to second stage of Q school. I went and played a g Pro Tour event. I won that. That was my first event back post hip surgery. Everything's great. Um, I got a sponsor invited to Sanderson Farms. It's near my hometown in Mississippi, and I've known the

tournament director for a while. He gave me a spot, and which I was, you know, obviously super thankful for. I had two events to play before before Q School. I got into contention actually Sanderson Farms and had a bad Saturday. But I had a really good tournament and uh gave me a lot of confidence. Going into Q school, I was, I was ready to go. Um, all the all the hard work that I've done for six months was paying off and everything kind of. I go, so

here we go to Q School. I get the second stage. I lose by one, but play great. I think I shot like eighteen nineteen under par. I don't remember it was in in Dothan, Alabama, but uh yeah, so accuse school went great. I get the final stage. I pulled a muscle in my elbow on Sunday. But right before the tournament starts, I play no practice rounds. I go get a Cortison shot the night before the first round, and I mean, I just I couldn't swing the golf club. Um somehow I wasn't able to make a lot of

puts the first round and shoot a few under. But after that it started raining, got super cold, and Wendy um Savannah and I just I shot a million finished like a hundred at final stage, and I didn't really know how detrimental that could be for the rest of the year. So okay, so we're back in Q school. How how did you How did you hurt your elbow? Yeah, so I was it was super cold in Atlanta. Obviously in November, you never know what you're gonna get in Atlanta,

and it was really cold the week before. But I wanted to get some practice in, so I went to the indoor hitting bays at Golf Club of Georgia and there's like a little trench in the in the mat. But I hit it out there and it kind just called it just right. I don't know, I don't know what happened, put it just right in the little trench and it kind of just caught my wedge and it snapped my elbow and it's it was so swollen, looked

so gross. Um called my physical therapist that had done he had done my hip surgery rehab, and he was like, oh my gosh, you know, we've spent seven months getting you ready for Q school and then this freak accident happens. So he rushed me in. It was a Sunday. He rushed me into his clinic. He opened it up. It was like, you know, late in the afternoon. Um, he was actually at like his kids volleyball practice or something, and he was like he knew that when I called him.

The tone of my voice I was, you know, I was in in some serious pain and hurting and whatnot. So he uh rushed me in did some dry need link to it? And then he's like, you don't need to go to final stage and I'm like, no, I'm going to final stage. You know, this is all I've worked for for the past seven months. And even you know, back before that it was you know, I had I missed Q school the year before because of COVID. So this was like a whole two year cycle leading up

to this event. And you know, my elbows size of a balloon. So, um, I go down Monday morning just like I'm gonna go to Savannah. That was my original plans. I called Mac Barnhardt, my agent, and I was like, you know, Mac, this is what's going on. He called one of his doctor friends, Dr Topper, down in Sea Island. Um. Dr Talps got a practice in Brunswick, so he brought me in for imaging on Tuesday and then I think I got a Cortison shot on Wednesday to play the tournament,

and I was icing the whole week. I got to walk the course obviously, but I couldn't hit any balls. Dr Talps like, you know, he was like, we've done all we can do. Go try and see what you can do on Thursday. But he was like, don't hit a ball until Thursday and make it any worse. So I literally really from Sunday to Thursday didn't hit a single golf shot. Um. I didn't know if I was gonna be able to play, but I knew I had to at least hit a shot off the first tea.

If you hit a shot off the first tea at final stage, you technically finished. You can withdraw and finish last in the tournament, but at least you keep your conditional status. If you withdraw before the tournament starts, you don't even keep your conditional status. So, um, you know, I hit a shot off the first he end up shooting a shot. I think I shot like four or five when out of the first round, and we were like, okay, here we go, let's let's see what we can do.

And then the second round, Um, I went to the other course and hit like three balls out of bounds, shot a million. So um, I mean yeah, just does your mind ever go to a dark place and you think about how your life had been different if it wasn't for that little goddamn trench in the map. Yeah, I mean it really could. I would have been off and running. I was playing so well, um, coming back from surgery, and you know, I was in a good, good space mentally, everything was good and yeah, so that

was super unfortunate. And as soon as the tournament ended, I knew I had to find a way to get into some tournaments. So I had to get sponsor invites um or I had to Monday qualify. So as soon as the tournament ended, I start emailing Bahamas. I started emailing um the South American events, I started emailing Louisian. I started emailing all these different places. The lead calm down in Florida. I can I've had hours and hours of conversations with all of these tournament directors, um tons

of emails. I was told literally three days after the final stage that all of my all the spots in my category were already taken for the Bahamas. I don't know how that's possible. Um PGA Tour sponsor invites are given out, you know, two weeks ish before the event. But somehow my category was already already given for Lee Coom, already given for Bahamas, um for Bo Gatar. I think they were already given their's. They probably get them the local guys or I don't know what the deal was,

but um, yeah it was. It was very interesting how that that whole system works. I was told, like I said, three days after um Corn Free Finals that all the spots were already given out, So maybe it's coincidence. Maybe Yeah, in my opinion, the spots are being sold still, so that's just just my ti. Um, that's that's where I'm at. Andy first. I mean we can definitely touch on the on the exemptions too, but just kind of give people to give people a perspective of what finishing a Q

school was. People think that like you get the final stage and you're like, oh, everything's goold and you basically have to finish in the top forty. Maybe if you missed by one shot, you're gonna get a lot of tournament, but we're Andy finished, basically you're gonna get into maybe five tournaments in a year, and they're gonna be you know, not that there's any but they're gonna be later in the season and all this kind of stuff. So yeah,

I mean that was kind of my understanding. I thought I might get into a couple of events later in the year. I thought I might get into maybe bow Guitar Panama, because a lot of people don't travel to those places. UM. I thought I would get into the BMW, which was, you know, a large field because it's three courses. I thought I might get in a few of those events. So that was kind of my hope. But I never

got into a single event. Um based off the reshuffle this year and how everyone wanted to play every event, I just never got into a tournament. So UM, I was traveling the Southeast and kind of all over playing all these Monday qualifiers. UM. I was playing a lot of many tour events in between. And the season got to the point where there was two events back to back in Louisiana and I had been talking to a tournament director in Louisiana. I'm not going to say his name.

I had been talking to the tournament director for one of the events, and he told me you know. He was like, between you and me, you're gonna get into this tournament. We're gonna give you a sponsor invite. And I'm like, okay, awesome. So there is an APT Tour event right before that event in Louisiana, and I was like, sweet,

I'll go to this APT event. Um, this will be like a gear up for for this tournament and play that play the APT and then I get a call um during that event, I was at the movie theater with my my dad actually, and I remember walking outside and he was like, hey, the tournament committee pulled, pulled,

pulled this sponsor invite from me. They decided to give it to Ryan Ruffles, And wow, that was just like the complete just that was the low point of this whole year because I had finally thought I was going to get a spot to play in a Corner Farry event. And if I was able to play in one event, that's what I keep telling the tournament directors. I just need one tournament. I don't need a bunch of tournaments. I don't need three or four. I need one event because if I can get in one, it's all up

to me. After that point, I can play my way into the reshuffle. I can play my way into you know, full status on this tour, but please just give me an opportunity to play one event. I'm not playing well on the Monday qualifiers mentally, I'm not there. I'm I'm you know, I'm not I'm not doing great in them, and every every week you gotta go shoot six seven,

eight under part just to get through. So um, it wasn't wasn't doing that, wasn't playing well enough to get in on my own, and wasn't given an opportunity to play. So um, that was kind of the low point of the whole thing. I remember being just super devastated. I was supposed to play another APT Tour event and I called Mac and I'm like, you know, I'm going home. I'm I'm I'm tired of being on the road. I'm

tired of playing these mondays. I finally thought I was going to get an event and it got pulled from me last second. So um, this is just kind of the low point of this whole year. Um kind of stretched for me and I was sitting in a comfort suitets in Louisiana and my bed's broken and it's got old red carpet and it smells like cigarettes, and I'm just like, you know, this is not what I expected,

you know, my pro career to look like at this point. Um. Not that there's anything wrong with the traditional route and grinding it out on Mondays and you know, doing that stuff, but it's just not where I saw myself being based off the opportunities that I've had, and UM, you know, obviously good golf could have taken care of a lot of that, but I didn't. I didn't do what I needed to do to get um full status. And whether that be because of injury or because of whatever, at

the end of the day, I didn't. I didn't play well enough to give myself those opportunities. So, UM, that's something I'm gonna have to live with. But UM, you know, I tried, tried as hard as I can, and I remember calling Mac and I was saying, you know, I just need somewhere to play, Mac, Um, I need some type of start. I need some type of tournament to get ready for that that matters, A tournament that I can get out of bed for, a tournament that I'm

excited to go practice, I'm excited to go play. At this point, I'm just like super frustrated with golf. I'm not getting into the Mondays, I'm not playing well, I'm not getting into the corn Ferry events, and I'm traveling all across the country playing these minutes were events trying to make ends meet. So um, it's just it's a tough, tough road and you know everyone has to go through tough times at some point. But that was pretty much rock bottom for me, and uh so Mac and I

kind of went back to the drawing board. We were able to find the International Tour Series for the Asian Asian Tour and the they were happy to have me in the first event in Newcastle, so that was that was like the first glimpse of hope for me to be able to play in an event that mattered. And then I was approached for the first for the first Lift Golf Tour event in London. So yeah, that's kind of where I was at at that point. But let's

just back up just a little bit. So you know, when when you when you hit rock bottom, that's you know, you're now kind of early spring of two thousand and twenty two. You've been a pro for two and a half years. How are you, how are you making ends meet? Like, what what is the financial situation at that point? Yeah, I mean it's not great because I turned pro um. Every equipment manufacturer says money is down because of COVID, So I don't get kind of the traditional USAM type

of situation there financially is it's kind of traditionally. I've I've kind of heard what other guys have gotten, and you know, numbers were a little down because of COVID, which is you know, fine whatever, and uh, and then I have to take six months off due to hip surgery, and that rehab was super expensive. You know, I was seeing a really good physical therapist a couple of times a week. Um, I was spending two an hour on physical therapy and I did that for you know, six months.

So definitely adds up very quickly. Um. I wasn't able to play any tournaments, so I wasn't able to get any equipment money. I wasn't able to get my bonuses based off of getting corn for your status are getting PGA tour status, I wasn't able to get any of that. So um, yeah, I was definitely to a place I've been playing all these many tour events. Not playing well, I'm spending crazy amounts of money. Um. All of February I stayed in a hotel. Every night I played a tournament.

I think I played nine times before March, ten times before March. Um this year, so I was, I was traveling the world. I went to Hawaii this year to play a Monday qualifier. On Monday, did into Sony. Um, I missed the cut by one, finished sixty six and an amateur made the cut, which is a whole another thing. But um, so I finished in sixty six and an amateur made the cut and I missed the cut. So uh in Hawaii that ship cost me ten thousand dollars probably. Um,

you know I can. I can sit here and name name stuff that costs a lot of money all day in this profession. But yeah, basically I needed to need to play some corn forrer events. I needed to get into bigger events. I needed to get full status. Um, I was going to run out of money just simply put I I'm I'm all of my golf by myself. You know, my parents were fortunate enough to provide me an opportunity to go to college and get an education and and you know, play junior golf and do all

these great things. And I'm super thankful for you know, for everything they've given me, but they're not gonna provide for you know, chasing these Monday qualifiers and fund my golf career, and uh, rightfully so, I mean, you know, it's a it's a crazy expensive profession and uh, you know, some kids are are lucky enough to have endless amounts of money, but you know, I grew up in a small town in Mississippi, unincorporated community, and we just we didn't have that kind of money to to kind of

fund that lifestyle of trying to play professional golf. Andy, I have to assume that that part of that once you're like kind of you finished poorly at final stage efortan injury, and you're playing many tours, and I've talked to like a lot of type guys that have gone through what you're going through, I assume that part of the struggle is is mentally is like this is not

how this was supposed to go. Here, I am playing many tours like it's it's obviously golf related, but mentally it has to be a struggle like I wasn't supposed to be playing mondays, I'm not supposed to be playing many tours and that I assume just takes time to get over to be okay that you're playing g Pro events for sure. Yeah, and you know that's that was the conversation I had with Mac when I was in in Louisiana. I just said, you know, Mac, I'm not

having fun playing golf. This is not what this is not what I want to be doing. You know, if if this is how golf is gonna be, I'm gonna have to take a step back and reevaluate everything and get to a place mentally that I can be happy with being at a g Pro Tour event. I can be happy with chasing a Monday. I can be happy doing these opportunities and look at it more as an opportunity and not you know, I'll pour me um and wherever, you know, whatever state I'm in playing a Monday. So yeah,

I mean it's a hundred percent mental. And if you can get to a place where you know you're you're happy to be there, and you're thankful for the opportunity and you're looking forward to it, and you know all these things, you can you can play some good golf and get on, you can turn your career around pretty quickly. Um. It only takes one good week in golf. And uh, I think you know, we've seen that over and over again.

Cameron Young was exactly where I was in a hotel and you know wherever playing Monday qualifiers a year and a half ago. So it can happen really quickly. Um, is what we've we've learned from from guys like that. But I just I wasn't to that place yet. So when when you went over to the International Series events over in England, did did you, in the back of mind think it might be an audition for Live Golf.

It's kind of an audition. I mean I knew that they were gonna have some spots in the first live event. We're gonna come from that first International series, so um. But when I when I left to go to the newcast, already knew that I was going to play um the next week in London. Okay cool? And so when that offer was presented to you for live I'm based on everything we've heard up to this point, it's obviously a no brainer. You need somewhere to play golf. I needed off.

That's that's the bottom line, it wasn't about I mean, I know everyone said it's not about the money. The money is definitely great money for you, and you need to play. It's somewhere to play, and it provided great financial situation for me to be able to you know, fund my my golf for the next couple of years. So, um, for me, it was a complete no brainer. I had nowhere else to play the that week of London. There was no g Pro Tour event, there was no corn

for Tour event, there was no Monday qualifier. Um, there was nowhere else for me to play. Literally, So you know, I had an opportunity to play in a golf tournament and I took it. If that would have been an International Series in Singapore like I just did two weeks ago, I would have gone. If it's the Colorado Open like I just did, I would have gone. You know, the week after the first live event, I went and played a g Pro Tour event. You know, I need to

play golf. It's like, it's it's pretty simple. I didn't get in a single event on the corn Ferry Tour. I've never played a corn f Tour event, and um, yeah, I just I didn't have an opportunity to play, so I needed somewhere to play. Was there anyone in your in your orbit who cautioned against it because of discomfort where the money was coming from, or knowing that it was going to complicate your path back to the PGA Tour potentially? Um, definitely not an issue you about where

the money was coming from. I think that was more so just the only defense um the tour had based off this other tour at the time. Um, you know, whatever it was for me, I just kind of did my own research and talked to the smartest people I know, and everyone said, Saudi Arabia is now out of the United States, and they supported me fully with whatever I wanted to do. So, um, you know, friends and family, I talked to them, consulted them, what do you think

are you gonna think of me any differently? And no one. Everyone said, dude, go chase your dream, go play golf. And that's kind of what I went with. So UM, I don't think anyone around me had any uh, had any issues with the whole thing. And I don't think anyone thought that my route to the PGA Tour would be um any different because of this. No one really thought that I could be suspended, um, based off of the status that I had. I had a conditional status.

I basically paid to get status. I paid to have the ability to be suspended. That's kind of where I was andy too to that point. You know, I've talked to a lot of players, obviously, I cover a lot of guys like yourself, and I think the majority of I talked to him about, you know, Chase or yourself or more envious They that you guys had the opportunity than than mad that you took it. Uh, what's kind

of your What has been your feedback from players? Everywhere I go, players are like, my gosh, dude, They're like, yeah, we would have loved to do the same thing. Um, everyone says. Everyone keeps asking me why I'm not in a lawsuit against the tour um. Everyone keeps asking me or keeps telling me, I have the best You've got the best case ever, like you, you didn't even have status and you guys suspended and blah blah blah. And you know, I'm just I'm not a guy that likes controversy.

I never have, I never will. I'm only I mean not only I'm suspended until December UM from PGA Tour, Corn for a Tour, PGA Tour Canada, PGA Tour Latin America. Um. Everyone thinks that I'm suspended for life because I was put on the the same list that came out as everyone else. UM, you know, I don't. I don't really agree with how my name was was put out there

with everyone else. UM, guys that chose I lived tour events over a PGA Tour event that were they were exempt into PGA Tour events, they were exempt into all these things. I had no exemptions. I had no tournament to play, UM I had. I was. I was chasing Monday qualifiers. So UM, I didn't like that I was grouped into this category of of guys that kind of rebelled against the tour or chose a different path. I didn't choose a path. I just chose to play in

the golf turn of it. So, UM, you know I didn't. I didn't love how that was handled. But hopefully, hopefully we'll be able to have a conversation at some point. I'm not going to be in a lawsuit against the tour as of now. I just I don't I don't want to go that route. Um, I've taken enough backlash from all the things from from playing the first live event. Um, I've had people send me hateful, hateful, hate, hateful things basically every day for months. I've gotten crazy amount of

backlash just for playing in a a golf tournament. Um. And this is kind of all um comes from the tour and uh, the tours stance against live golf, so kind of where I'm at. Yeah, I mean that that's powerful. Um, But before you decided to play in live London, did

you have communication with the Where did they did? I called called the corn for your Tour player relations and said, look, um, I'm I'm gonna probably go play in this Asian Tour International Series in Newcastle and I kind of started with that and they were like, yeah, we'd be happy to give you a media rights rights release. UM, go ahead. They're like we'll send you the link, you just fill it out, you say what tournament you're gonna play, and

it's gonna get approved. I was like, okay, cool. I was like, I'm also thinking about playing the live event the next week. Um, can you tell me if I'm going to be suspended if I play that? Or can you tell me if I'm going to get approved for a media rights release, and they basically not. Basically they told me every media rights release is looked at in its own microscope. They said, every player situation is different,

every tournament's different. You know, we're we're definitely threatened by this Lift Golf series, but we look at every single media rights release in its own um, in its own classification. And I was like, Okay, you know that sounds kind of promising. Maybe maybe they'll tell me that I don't get a discount on Monday qualifiers anymore. Maybe they'll tell me something. I don't know. I didn't really know what

the the suspension for me would look like. I figured there would be some type of consequence just because you can't. I understand, you can't reap benefits of both tours, but I wasn't really reaping a benefit. I was reaping a benefit on Monday qualifiers and TBC sugar offer membership, so um, that was that was all I was receiving from the corn Ferry Tour. So I thought, maybe that might be taken away, but you know, surely they'll let me keep

playing Monday qualifiers or whatnot. Um. But anyway, after I teed off in Newcastle Are in London. I opened my phone and I had denied me Right's release for for lip Golf London after I had already teed off. So it was this is a crazy time. I mean, you know that's what they And I'm not trying to speak out against the PGA Tour at all. I want to get that clear. Um. Growing up the PGA Tours where I wanted to play. It's all I ever wanted to do was to be on the PGA Tour. And um,

I would still love to play the PGA Tour. I would love to play the Live Tour, I would love to play anywhere. I just want to play golf. I love playing golf. UM, I love competition, I love you know. I just want to be one of the best players in the world. And that's all that I've want to do. So um everything I do from the time I wake up every single day is to try to get better at golf and see where, see where this game can take me. So um that's all that's all I'm trying

to do. And UM, I hope the I hope, I hope we can have a conversation with the tour at some point and just you know, talk about my situation. I didn't appeal. I don't see a reason to appeal. Um. I think we just need to sit down and have a conversation and say, you know, I don't understand why I am suspended from a tour I never played on, and a tour that I paid to get status on.

Because let's say I'm missed at second stage. Let's say I don't get the final stage, I have no status, and then I go play a Lift Golf Tour event and the corn Ferry Tour couldn't ban me, couldn't suspend me. Um. So let's say I don't get to final stage, don't finish the hundred, Okay, I have no status. I go play live the first event, and then I come back in Monday qualify, and when the first corn Ferry event, I'd be playing the Live Tour and playing the PGA

Tour at the same time. That's how it work would work. So I basically, because I went to corn Ferry Q school and made it to final stage, I had the ability to be suspended from the Cornferry Tour. So it just that doesn't make sense to me. I wish that scenario that you just laid out had happened, that would have been so glorious that us literally could have happened if I didn't make it the final stage. So that

that's a that's amazing. So when when you were invited to play agreed to play live London, was it was it just a one off? Was there any promise made going towards future live events and or the national series? What was the arrangement for you? Yeah, so I can play International series um or the rest of this year for sure and possibly next year as well. So um, that gave me guaranteed place to play this year, gave me some events to play. Um, you know, I got

to play. I got to play the last two International series as well. I just got back from Asia, my first trip to Asia, which was awesome. UM. I went over and played in Singapore and then I went and played in j Ju Island, South Korea, so getting to play two events over there. UM I was treated great. The golf courses are awesome. I was able to they had physical therapist on site, which is definitely a plus

for me. Um. International travel is is pretty tough. So UM I was able to have physical therapist on site, people working with me every day and I was able to play really well, finished fifteenth over there. Uh the second week, had a chance to win on Sunday, but I had a bad back nine. But just to be in contention again playing in a golf tournament, Um, playing in an an event that matters, a four day event and with world ranking points and a nice, nice purse

was was awesome. So I'm looking forward to I have four more of those this year, so looking forward to those, and uh, yeah, just try to keep keep getting in tournaments and seeing where I can play. Basically, have like a month and a half off right now because the next international series until the first week in November in Morocco. So um, I'm just trying to find somewhere to play right now. Andy, Is it is it hard to you know, kind of back to the mental side of of it.

Is it hard to kind of black out the politics? You know, there's like you're trying to get back and have an opportunity at Q School, You're dealing with the suspension. Is it is it hard to kind of just go to South Korea or go to Singapore and just try to make it a normal tournament week or because of the stuff you've dealt with leading up to this stuff. Is he kind of learning to block this this ship out, you know, and just teat up to be able to

go over there. It's almost refreshing because I never had a single interview. Um my phone was barely working. I was on the other side of the world. Everyone here's a sleep. I've deleted Twitter, I've deleted Instagram, I don't have I don't have access to all this stuff anymore. So, UM, I've kind of I've kind of learned to block that

that politics and uh negativity out of the world. So, UM, I think it's kind of a blessing in disguise for me, is learning how to block things out and learning how to how to deal with adversity, and um, you know, my college coach of Georgia Tech always said, how do you need how do you eat an uh an elephant? And you know, I don't know how do you eat an elephant? He's like one bite at a time. So uh, that's kind of that's kind of what we're doing right now.

We're just trying to eat an elephant one bite at a time. We're trying to play some play some golf and get a little bit better each day. Um. You know, I think eventually all this talk about live golf we'll kind of subside, and uh, it'll just be another tour that people play on. And you know, that's just how it's gonna be. I think they're they're here to stay. They have unlimited, unlimited resources, unlimited funds, and uh, when you have unlimited resources and unlimited funds, it's it's kind

of easy to be successful. So, UM, we'll see, We'll see what happens. I think. Uh, I just I would love to play and play golf anywhere. Um, I'm gonna keep playing these international series for now and then do my time. I'm so to speak until my suspensions over from the corn Ferry Tour. You deleted social media because of the live backlash. Yeah, I mean every day that I opened my phone on Twitter, it was just crazy amounts of tags and comments. Um, just painful, painful things,

and I just got tired of seeing it. Yeah, I get that. Um, I don't think that casual golf and understands how important the International series and Asian Tour is to live golf. Um, it really be is going to become a feeder system. And they've been a little scarce in the details, but there's gonna be a way next year for players to play their way on to Live Golf through the International Series. Can you bring that to life a little bit for the listeners. Yeah, So basically

the International Series. For the first live event, they had eight players from the Asian Tour that were basic leg taken from the Asian Tour to the Lift Golf, so they had a certain amount of International Series exemptions based off prior order of merit on the International Series, So I think there was like three guys from that, and then I think they took five guys from the first Internationals or the International Series Newcastle, so if you finished

top five at Newcastle you were able to get in, and then the top three on the order of merit before that. So the second event in Portland, I think they took six, so they dropped that down to six, and then for Bedminster, I think they went down to three and that's where they're going to keep it at. So top three on the current order of merit um the rest of this season we'll get in to Live Golf event and then at the end of the year, I'm pretty sure that those three players will be exempt

on the live for the next year. I mean that becomes an important point because one of the criterias to get world ranking points is you have to be an open tour which you can play your way on and off. It can't just be all invitation. So that's how that's where this comes in from from the golf standpoint is, hey, you have the ability to play your way on. Now, it's not a huge number of spots, but it's also they're just small fields, so that that is what it is. Yeah,

those International series are pretty cool. Uh. This year, I think they're anywhere from one and a half to two million persons, and then next year they're anywhere from two to three million persons. And next year they're talking about they said between twelve and fifteen events. That's what they're gonna have next year on the International series. So that's

you know, that's a lot of events. And uh, I think that's ah, that might be the biggest threat for the PGA Tour is the International Series and the Asian Tour because I mean, you look at I have a lot of friends playing up in Canada right now. I have a lot of friends that that play Latin America or corn very even and there's guys losing money playing good golf every week, and uh, that's definitely a problem

for the PGA Tour. And I think, you know, we're seeing half a billion dollars being released to the PGA Tour, but nothing's being released up to PJ Tour Canada or PGA Tour Latin America are the corner ferry tour. So I think you're gonna see some some guys say, you know, I can go make a living play in the Asian Tour. I can't make a living playing PJA Tour Canada. Yeah, I'm gonna go do that. So, um, you know, the stars are on the PGA Tour are being protected right

now and they're they're definitely being awarded great compensation. But the future starts the PGA Tour definitely, uh, definitely not reaping those benefits right now. What was what was the atmosphere like at this International Series event, if just competitively course set up, What did it feel like? You've played a lot of different events now in different circuits, but what would you compare it to really big golf courses,

like championship golf courses. Um, which is great, That's what I love to see, Um, any any tour that I've played on, you want the course to set up hard, you want the pen set up hard. Do you want to set up like so to a tour event? Um? And they were definitely set up that way. They had some good spectators, came out, decent crowds, nothing crazy, but over there, the Asian Tour is a big deal. Um, it's it's shown on TV all the time. They had

pretty good media following. Um. Interview rooms and in the locker rooms were taking care of really nice. They had three physical therapists on site at at both events. Um, you know, really good facilities, driving range, chipping green, putting green. Uh, greens were good. Courses were long and hard, and the competition was pretty good. Scores scores were actually a lot lower than I thought they'd be both of both weeks. So you know, I think it's I think it's a

great thing. And you know, unfortunately, the I don't know if you guys have seen, but the PGA Tour just changed the world ranking points for Asian Tour. So that was that was kind of another another blow for for lift golf is these players thought that they could go play Asian Tour International Series and keep their world ranking up. Patrick Read was very outspoken about you know, kind of his his he was going to support that, and he

went and played in Singapore for that reason. And as soon as Patrick Read played in Singapore, the world rankings became the same world ranking almost the same as PGA Tour Canada. And there was like, I don't even know how many top one fifty players in the world at this Asian Tour event, and there was, you know, the strength of field was a little bit different. And you've got the same amount of World ranking points for PGA

Tour Canada now as you do Asian Tour. So that's just you know, I guess the PGA Tour on official World Golf rankings, So that's just how it's going to be. Well, they don't, but they have an influence on it for sure. And the World ranking is its own independent body. But Jamnahan sits on the board, and you know, so does so does the guys who run the RNA PD of America. You know, it's kind of the five Families of golf. So there's they have a lot of history and a

lot of ancestuous relationships. So the tour theoretically is only one voice, but um, you know the obviously the old Guard has kind of rallied around each other. So it's, um, it's interesting scenario. Those world ranking points are gonna be super slim. You're not gonna be able to play your way into the top fifty in the world and play your way into majors and things like that. So that's

gonna be unfortunate for the Asian Tour. But the purses are going up, and I think you'll see the competition start going up to a lot of the lift players. In their contracts, they're gonna have to play a certain amount of various events. So um, you'll see those international series start becoming more and more prevalent. So Ryan, how I know you have to go and pick up your kids, but I keep Andy a little bit longer. But before you go, like just what does this mean to the

new world order of golf? When you have in the National Series has a three million dollar pers Asian Tour has a five million dollar purs where where does this fit into the overall structure of competitive golf as people are trying to get to essentially the big leagues, which we can all agree is now the PG Tour and live. Yeah, I mean, uh, Andy touched on it and Andy, and Andy knows it, uh, you know better than I do,

as he's a player. But just talking to all sorts of players, you can't make a living in the Latin American tour, you can't make it living in the Canadian tour, and those tours have basically killed many tours back in the United States. So the g Pro Tour is a very good tour, but you win ten thousand dollars for winning it. There's no Hooters Tour, there's no there's no real many tour in the United States that you can make a living outside of winning ten times in a

year or five times in a year. So I mean, just like Andy, there's a thousand players that just want to make a living. And the International Series, I think you'll see a lot of people at European Q School. I think you'll see a lot of people at Asian Q School. They just want a place to play. That's it, you know, Uh, And you know, I know Andy, it's it's impossible. In the social media world, I get a hundred comments and one bad one and I'm like, oh, that's the one I fixate on. For the most part,

all the people I talked to, no one's mad. I know. I'm sure you've got plenty of messages saying differently. I just think overall, the support for players like Chase Keepka or Andy playing on live is far overwhelmingly supportive in the majority of what lived golf is. So I think the Asian Tour is going to change the game. You only see the comments that are bad, but I have had I have had a lot of support from players

and people that really understand golf. Anyone, anyone who's been in my position before completely understands playing opportunities and somewhere to play golf. So um, I have to have to keep reminding myself that, for sure, Andy, I gotta get out of here and get my kids from the school bus. Uh. All the best, dude, and um and I look forward to seeing what your career does from here. So well, the best. Thanks for being on man. We don't need Ryan anyway, He's dead weight. Get out of here. Ryan,

It's Graham. You know I love you. Go don't don't, Mr school bus. You gotta run along now, run along. Um. But I mean, just to bring this to life a little bit. I'm looking at the results from like from Singapore. Um, the event you played in a few weeks ago. I mean the winner took home two D seventy thousand dollars and that that person was one point five, so that that you know, if it was it's gonna go up

a lot from there. That's real money. I mean I finished, I think I finished fifties six tip for fifty six in Singapore and made like we're is better than second place in a g PRO. I know, we keep talking about the g Pro Tour event. G PRO is awesome. I love I love that tour. It's it's a cool place to play. But I mean that's more money than a second place in the g PRO. I finished T fifteen with ten people the second week and made over eighteen thousand, which is you know, that's that's real money.

I mean that's enough money to pay for travel and make a little bit of money. And if you can break break even, um playing on anywhere besides PGA Tour or or live golf, now, um, you're doing pretty good. There. There's been a little sense like, oh, you know, all all these like American pros, nice Southern boys like yourself aren't going to go play golf. In Asia. It's too

far away, it's too different. Uh what what was your your inter personal experience and just being a being a you know, a stranger in our foreign land, Like, how did it feel to play golf over there? It was so cool? I mean, they really took care of us. They put us in Everyone stays in the same hotel. Um. There's shuttles every thirty minutes to the course, so you don't have to rent a car. You don't have to

really worry about travel. Um. I land at the airport, had a driver picked me up and take me to the hotel. And other than that, I mean I had everything else was was pretty much catered for me. You have breakfast and lunch at My biggest thing is food. I don't I don't. I don't like some of those Asian cuisine. But I was able to. I was able to find food pretty easily. There was a breakfast buffet at the hotel that was pretty American, um, pretty traditional.

They had an almost station. I could I could kind of go from there if I had an almost station, I'm good. But the food was fine. Well, lunch was at the course every day, huge buffet. You could kind of find some stuff that you could eat and then at dinner all the guys kind of hang out together because everyone stayed at the same hotel. There was guys like James Piett, Chase Chase, Kepka, Turk Pettitt, all these other Americans that I could travel with and go to

dinner with. And uh so I don't think I eat by myself once for for two weeks, which is super fun. And getting to see different parts of the world, I think it's awesome. Um, I've been super fortunate to be able to, you know, chase a white ball around and and get to travel the world doing it. So Um, there's a lot of people where I live that where I grew up that never really venture out of Mississippi much less get to travel, get to travel the world and do all the cool things that I've been able

to do. So I have to pinch myself a lot, um, just being able to do what I do, playing a game that I love, and uh, you know, it's it's awesome. So if if the center of gravity of the Gulf Universe goes east and the Asian Tour in their national series supplants the corn Ferry and Canada and Latin America, You don't think there'll be any hesitancy for a lot of Americans to start making those trips. I don't think so.

I mean, I think there's gonna be so many events every year that you're gonna be able to go play three weeks in a row and then come home for a couple of weeks, and then three weeks in a row, come home for a couple of weeks, and the travel is not that bad if you can do it that way. Obviously, if you're having to go play one event and then fly back across the country and play another one fly back, fly back, fly back, I mean that would be a nightmare.

But um, when you can go play three in a row, I mean I was, I was pretty I'd say my jet lag went away after about two days, so you know, you can even for two in a row. It wasn't that bad. Obviously, I got travelers flu coming back, so uh, fortunately I've been I've been down bad for about four days. I lost about fifteen pounds. But it's a blessing and disguise that that now, that's that's a positive attitude right there, and hey, I'm working working on so you know, looking ahead,

there's now that you have this looming. Um, maybe not a battle, but there's some intrigue with what's gonna happen with you in the PGA Tour in December. Do you have has there been any back channel communication? Like do you have any sense if if they're going to lift your suspension or they're going to extend it? Like, I

don't know. I'm I'm really curious. In my in my letter telling me that I was suspending until December, there was a statement that said basically, any further events or outspoken comments against the PGA Tour could result in further suspension. So um, that's that. I don't really I don't really know what that means. Um, that's what I'm saying. I'm not outspoken against the tour at all. So um, I've always supported the PGA two. I loved watching the FedEx

Cup yesterday. Uh I guess what two days ago now, and it was just you know, I love I love watching golf. I'm a fan of golf. I love playing often. Uh, golf is kind of always been my life and what I'll do. So let me speak on your behalf. Andy. That's fucked up. I mean like that to threaten you that way is ridiculous, Like, this is your life. I've definitely been threatened, So yeah, I mean, this is your life,

this is your journey. Should be able to speak about it freely, and we appreciate your trust and coming on here. But I mean, that's that's chilling. It's like they're they're just you're the easiest target here. You don't have status. You're not a past champion, you're not a major championship winner, you're not a Hall of Famer, Like they're just trying

to squash you and all this. It doesn't seem fair. Definitely, I've definitely been squashed and thrown into this category of Um, these outspoken guys are guys that have rebelled against the tour. But I'm not like that at all. So hopefully hopefully we can sit down at some point and have a conversation about it, like like man, yeah, um, so you're

gonna you're gonna play the remaining in our National series events. Um, the goal there would be to get uh full status on the Asian Tour and or play your way onto the Yeah, that would be the goal to play get full status on the Asian Tour for next year. Um, I'm an affiliate member right now, I think I probably need to make somewhere around a hundred thousand UM to

guarantee myself full status for this year. And I'm at about twenty three thousand right now with four events to go, So, um, just a couple of good weeks and I should be able to lock that up and then. Um. But the Asian Tour International Series has a lot of sponsor invice. I think they get like thirty eight sponsor invites into every single event. So I've been fortunate enough to play on those, so um, you know, worst case, maybe get some of those and just keep playing on that. So

let's do a little thought exercise here. You play really well in these international series events, Um, you have, you have great status in Asia heading into two thousand and twenty three. You flat upon a beach, you get wine and dine by Jay Monahan. They welcome you back into the old They say, okay, you can, you can, you can play well because of the situation here, will grant you full status on the corn Ferry Tours. It's kind

of a makeup for what you've been through. But you have to renounce Asia International and live like there's a fork in the road here, it's us for them. Uh, which do you choose? I don't know. It's gonna be hard. Um. You know, I feel like I've been treated very very wrongly. And uh, I haven't had any direct communication with any

anyone high up um on the PGA Tour. So if if I was able to to kind of have some conversations and and understand kind of where they were coming from and understand, um a little better the situation and kind of right some wrongs, then yeah, I might be able to might be able to go that route because I have always wanted to play the PGA Tour. That is you that that is what I've always wanted to do. So, um, I still would love to play the PGA Tour at some point in my career. Um, I want to play

against the best players in the world. I want to I want to be one of the top players in the world. I don't think you can do that without without playing the PGA Tour or live so um, yeah, I'm gonna have to figure that out. But I mean, and I know I'm putting you on the spot here, but I mean, in that hypothetical, I'm not gonna tick one right, No, No, I know I don't expect you to,

but just to flesh it out. I mean, if they granted you full status in the corn Ferry, those purses are what six hun fifty thousand and seven hundred thousand dollars Asia's Asia's five million. I mean, at some point the dream of the tour is is you grew up with it and it's a wonderful place, but you're also I mean you're trying to it's a livelihood. You gotta pay the bills, and I mean, I mean that's gotta

be a factor, right would be. It would be tough to to turn down the Asian Tour and the opportunities financially right now. Um, I think eventually there's gonna be something done about the corn Ferry Tour. It's just there's two big of a difference right now and international series Asian Tour events and corn Ferry. And I think that's probably the next step for the PGA Tour, but I can't speak for them. Um. I just see all this money being dished out to to the top players in

the top the top twenty guys. I guess what pips now at million? I mean, gosh, you take, you can take fifteen million to give ten million to give to the corn Ferry Tour and double all the purses and uh, I think that would go a long way, just just for starters. But hey, nobody asked me, no, we we did who that's why we have you here. But I mean it is an interesting thing. I mean I was at the Tour Championship and talked a lot of people.

I think the most vulnerable tour on the plan right now is the Champions Tour because, um, that money will be much better off to be redistributed, um corn Ferry, Latin America, Canada and and try and build this next generation of stars. If all the guys in there, you know, in an entire generation of potential Champions Tour players just went to live. Right, You're not gonna get all those guys in their forties now, You're not gonna get Phil Tigers done. Like, Um, the Champions Tour is looking more

and more like it doesn't have a purpose. And as you said, the tours committed so much to its top players, which had had to do. But something's got to give, and it definitely just seems like kind of a response to live not they're not kind of out in front of it at all in my opinion. So I don't know. I just like I said, I'm trying not to say anything. Yeah, you know against the tour um based off of my not wanting to get suspended further. But you do an

excellent job of it. I commend your tree. You han't anything's going to get you in trouble. My tongue is time. More money needs to go to the developmental tours if they want to keep the future starts the PGA Tour coming to the PGA Tour. Yeah, that's great. A right before you let you go, let's just talk about the state of er golf game, because that's what's ultimately gonna determine your future here even more than um the whims of j Monahan, like how are you feeling and why

are you optimistic going forward? I'm just getting better. My body is getting better. I've had a lot of back issues since hip surgery as kind of a compensation, UM, pretty common injuries. Just I've had a lot of q l um right q L tightness because my left hip after hip surgery, my left hip is like functioning super well and my right hip is still not great. So I get these imbalances and my left hip gets super high and then my right my whole right side of

my back, UM just kind of get some strain. So I'm just having a lot of imbalance issues. So I'm trying to trying to sort through those things, and UM, it's definitely stuff that can be fixed. So I've been working on it for the past few months. It's gotten a lot better. So I'm seeing I'm seeing the progress in my body, which gives me a lot of optimism because i know if if my body is feeling well, um, i know how to fix my golf games. So UM, as long as as long as my body keeps feeling well,

I'm super optimistic with everything. Where everything's going. Um, I finally have opportunities to play golf somewhere that you know, I'm able to get excited for and able to able to kind of get out of bed and work towards a goal. Um, guaranteed place to play is the bottom bottom line for me right now. And uh, you know that's why I'm optimistic. I'm I'm able to play these international tour series. I'm able to travel the world. You can see some cool places, and I'm able to able

to make some money in the process. So, um, those are all all optimistic outlooks. And despite everything you've been through, because it's been it's been a very challenging road since the US Amateur victory, you still you still love the game, you still have the passion I do. Yeah, I do. I love it. Uh there's been times where I haven't loved it, and there's been times where you know, I didn't didn't really care to go practice. I was pretty down on myself and uh, frustrated with my golf game,

frustrated with with how everything was going. But I've gotten past that, and I'm back to a place where all I want to do is is practice and see how get I can get at this game that I love. So here we go. I love it well that that's a great place to end right there. It's fascinating. You're just at the You're you're at this crossroads here of history and uh, somewhat unwittingly, but you're you're in the

middle of it all. So it Edvan's watching and I know a lot of people cheering for you, and I would I won't worry about the small number of naysayers out there because I think when people hear your story, they're gonna understand like it's really all you want is a place to play golf. So literally, well Andy, thank you for your time and your insight. Um, this is Alan Schipnuk. We're gonna bring this Fire Drill podcast to

a close. Thanks for listening as always, and we will keep trying to make sense of this ever changing landscape of professional golf. It's never boring. UM, So that's it for now, Thank you. I've been big and I played the wind, made a fortune, win my ship game, and I ran the table and never thought I could fall. Then the winter time hit me like a cannon the ball and now I can't shake this losing the street. Every road I take is a dead end stream. I

got thoughts in my head, can't you John? And not the thing what I'm thinking about about gown thoughts in my can get him out? And trying not to think what I'm thinking about h