Fire Drill 019: LIV, Live from London

the shadows like a snake. But everyone else saw it, Like it's just so ridiculous. Another log on the fire hears give it time. Welcome back to the fire Pit. I met Janella and on this episode of the fire Drill, which is quite hot, we hear from Alan Schipnuk on being live at the inaugural Live event in London, joining us is Ryan French and Michael Bamber, before we get to the specifics of a day in which Alan was

ultimately escorted out of Phil Nicholson's press conference. A quick appreciation for the sponsors who make all of this possible. We want to thank Dormy Workshop for making the next set of merchandise will be dropping on Firepit Collective dot com. We're lucky to have our logos on some of the Bishop Famili's handmade leather goods such as head covers, stash bags, and glove caddies. Thanks to bag Boy for their support.

Bag Boys Nitron Auto Open push Cart is the best in the business and for me, it's not even close. And thanks to Part Points, our friends Brandon Ebert and Kevin Quinley have created an app that changes the way you can score the game, which is especially good for beginners, kids, families and buddies trips. Looking for an alternate format, download the Today and go make part and now is Joe Horowitz likes to sing settle down and settle in. This story is about to begin, Alan Shipnuk. First of all,

are you are you okay? Yeah? I mean, it's the whole thing has been so nutty. I mean I was literally just standing in the back of Phil's press conference. You know, I wasn't so when I got when You're just getting credential has been a journey. They finally credential

to me today after it already bought tickets. I was just just gonna just go as a fan basically, they came through their credential that late this morning when I was already in London, and and but one of one of the very nice women working in the media center, she came out to meet me and she's like, Phil doesn't want you to talk to him. I was like, well, okay, let's just see how it plays out. I mean, I flew across the ocean to be here, Like he's the

most important person in this tournament. I'm not going to commit to not asking him a question. But we just kind of let it go and I was just gonna feel it out. And so he was doing his scrum and I just kind of stood in the back and I hadn't even really decided how was it going to play. I just wanted to see what his energy was like and what the whole, the whole vibe was and and then the goods like descended on me and things just got really weird. So what's really weird? What's what? What's

really weird? Me? Um? Well, they I mean the guy that grabbed my arm and was pulling me away and I just said, don't touch me, and he said you need to come with me. I said, no, I'm actually gonna watch this press conference. He's like, you need to come with me. I said why, He said, because we need to scan your bads. I said, I just got scanned five seconds ago. And so then he grabbed me again.

I said, don't fucking touch me. And by now there was like some energy, you know, in in the little His other reporters are right there, and so his other buddy was like, kind of they were, they hadn't like boxed in. He was kind of nudging me. So I started walking and then my old high school basketball coach, Joe chap Will be so proud. It was like going for an offensive rebound. I kind of gave the swim move. I did little spin that I was back to where I was. I went around both of them. It's one

of the greatest moments of my life. Unfortunately that no one got that on camera. Um. But then then there was a third dude. So now, like I didn't want us to be a whole side show, and it was already too, I mean, Phils already up there talking. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna like just walk away because this is not gonna end well for anybody. So

so then we walked twenty feet. So there's like there's this little where the pen is to get into the the flash interview area and they scanted my badge, it comes up green. I said, see all good, and he's like, well, uh, we need to reassess your badge, you know. And this whole time like if I even, like, you know, change the weight of my foot, he was like, he's like shadow boxing. It was so ridiculous. But I'm standing out there and it's just a thing, Like there's all these

security people. So if I could see an n wandered over the New York Times and everyone everyone's getting all fired up, and I was just like, I'm just gonna go very zen here, and I was, I was just on deep freeze. They kept changing their story why and then finally the guy said, well, um, I said, you know, my computers in the press room. I'd like to go do my work now. And he's like, wow, you can't

go in there because there's somebody in there. He doesn't want you in there, which I guess it could have been Norman actually, but I'm assumed maybe it was Phil doing some postcrum interviews. I don't know. Um. And then and then finally one of the people who runs the pressroom came and got involved, and then they I think at that point, whether it was Norman or whether it was Phil, they exited the tent. So then everyone just

kind of melled out. I just went back to my computer and started typing, which ironically I'm writing like a whole story, which I'm still gonna write and we'll still post on practical Collective dot com about like I thought, it was a super interesting day at and a big moment for the sport, and I was, you know, um, I'm not here. I came here with no agenda or no vendetta, Like I just was a curious observer house was going to play out. So it's just kind of

my dispassionate. Um, you know, dispatch on on the first round at the live event. Um, you know, I guess I'm trying to help them out by by being here and writing about it in a serious manner. But it took a turn for the absurd to say the least, Wasn't it Isn't it also a little bit about the fact that the kind of the golden rule of journalism is is if you write something about somebody day, you show up the next day and face the music. Yeah, I mean for sure, like you know, this is this

is why I'm here because Phil's here. You know, I hadn't really planned to cover the event. Um, but he's returning to public life obviously have been chronicling his whole journey. I've been part of it in some way. Um, and so yeah, I feel like I needed to be here. I would love to have a conversation with Phil, you know, whether he's out by the dais or we can have a private moment, like if he's got things what he wants to say to me. You know, I'm here to listen.

And um, you know, I'm definitely not like avoiding the guy or Greg Norton for that matter, who I've had my own issues with lately. Um. So yeah, I mean yeah, came into the lions Den here and uh, I was just here to try and do some serious work and um it's turned into fucking clown show. But I'm still here to do work and that's my My goal has and changed from what you've heard of stil In in his indoor press Scotts the other day, and as we've observed over the years, these guys can sometimes be very

different indoors and outdoors. Um, was he still automaton Phil the r E. Fleischer you know, stamp of approve of Phil like the other day, or was over there shades of like we're actually going to see the real film mikls him again. Yeah, he he loosened up a little bit. Um, I could see that. I think, Um, he was definitely over coached and that that first press conference and overrehearsed, and there was a stiffness and an awkwardness there and Um, but you know, I get it. It's there was a

there was a lot of build up. There was a lot of things that he wanted to say, some things he couldn't say, some things he had to say. So that was kind of a fraud return to public life, and you know there's a challenging scenario for him or for anybody, and putting putting that position. Um, there was

a little more levity this evening. I mean even when when they kind of went me out of this area, I could still hear Phil that you know, they amplified by speaker, so I got a little taste of his comments anyway, and he did he I think just getting back between the ropes and feeling the love from the crowd. You know, got a big ovation on the first hole and people were were cheering for him all the way through.

You know, he had a couple of recovery shots from the wrong side of the ropes and he's knuckle bumping folks and they're definitely it's definitely a pro Phil crowd. Um. Some of that made just because you know, he's validated this tournament and this this new enterprise. I think people are also just they like cheering, fulfill they like watching him play, and they're happy to see him back. So there was a lot of good energy out there for him.

And as you're saying, Michael, I think I think he's kind of peeling back some of the artifice and I think he's gonna be a little more real. And you know, the US Open week next week is gonna be fascinating. Um uh. You know, he's already got his press conference set for Monday, and um, the British, the British boys are are are different. I mean they came strong this week. I mean they don't mess around in these press conferences, but a lot of them are aren't really on the

golf beat. They're more generalists and they're just they're just here because it's a big tournament. You know, next next week will be the actual golf press and people feels known for a long time and has has a lot of relationships with UM, so I think there'll be a different level of intimacy and maybe emotion and how he handles that is going to be quite fascinating. So just take take us through it for a second here. So you you flew red eye landed this morning and and

went directly to to the to the golf course. Yeah, pretty much. When I came to the hotel, took a shower and change clothes. But yeah, then just got still, you know, because of my daughter's high school graduation and other reasons. I mean, that was part of why I wasn't gonna be here, but ultimately I just felt like I had to be, so um. I probably it would have been great to be here even a day or two earlier, but this is like the earliest I could

have I could have made it. So yeah, I'm going on about forty five minutes of sleep since I left California two days ago. But I've got some adrenaline, for sure, I mean, um, but yeah, so I mean it was a good day out there, like it was. My takeaway from this whole thing is it just felt like a golf tournament. You know. There was some of the pageantry with the beefeaters and the flyover and the trumpets and the black London taxis, but once they put they put a peg in the ground. I mean it was just

really good golfers trying to shoot a low score. And um, it's not it's not a exceptionally artful course, but it's a tough test. I mean it's a narrow fairways and very fiddley and a lot of moving on the greens, and so guys were it was. It was a really good test. I mean you had to you had to, as Michael Bamber says, you had to golf your ball. So it was fun to watch. I think, Um, there

was a cool energy. I mean it was the first few holes, it was it was total a key like hundreds of people were just ducking under the ropes like it was you know, Francis we met Um Brookline kind of thing, and he definitely they got things slightly more under control as it as a day we're on and people kind of chilled out. But the first few holes. I mean, it was just it was like it was kind of this cool energy, like uh, you know, football style, and I enjoyed it. It It was fun to be out there.

Did did Dustin Johnson looked like his normal self or did he look different? Yeah, he looked like the same Dustin Johnson, which is to say, mildly disinterested. Um, but you know, he kuy knows how to play golf. I mean he he hit one of the worst drives I've ever seeing him, you know, slice ad ob when you have all the room in the world down the left side of that hole. But he fought back. He had

a lot of great iron shots. And I think, you know, for Dustin, for Phil, those two guys, especially that this is kind of a new energy. It's a new start. It's it's not that they have anything to prove, per se, but I think they're more fired up for this event than they would just be the Canadian Open. You know that that's kind of old hat, but they're a little bit there's obviously a big spotlight on them. There's a

certain amount of scrutiny, especially Phil. You know, he put his neck on the chopping block for this whole thing that might be the wrong metaphor um, given the geopolitical underlying currents here. But the you know, I think I think there's there's a certain amount of there's a certain

amount of like I gotta prove myself here, you know. Uh, which that one thinks that there's just gonna be a lark for them and they're not gonna try hard because they already got their money and it's just an exhibition, but that it may evolve into that. But I think this, especially this week and maybe the first few, like Phil

was grinding hard. I mean he was working really hard out there because his driver he hit some loose drives and he didn't look comfortable as part of pretty much the whole round, he fought really hard for a very good score. You know, shooting sixty nine puts them in the top ten. So um, I mean, nothing could be more film Nikles than if he just goes out and

wins this thing. I mean, that would just be almost it's almost a feeling of inevitability, right like it's just the only thing to be even that would make more senses for him to go in next week at the US Open. But um, so yeah, I detected some energy out of both those guys. They weren't punching the clock. I mean, they were here to work, and uh, that was that was kind of a fun thing to watch too. What were there any signs of Saudi Royals in the

gallery or elsewhere in the clubhouse. Yeah, yeah, a couple of guys. I don't know their names, but I've seen them in photos and I know they're very involved in the Public Investment Fund and um, I don't know if the royals, but they're definitely ruling class and they were they looked elated. They were hugging everybody like I think this was a big moment war for all the people in Saudi Arabia who have you know, kind of gone to the wall on this one. For Norman, who has

made plenty of mistakes, but he has built this thing. Um, there was I mean, Norman was giddy out there on the first tea and it was just like, man, we did. It's it's not easy to build something from scratch, and there's they've taken a lot of shrapnel, there's been setbacks, but it's just to get this thing off the ground is a huge accomplishment. And you know, we now know that they're not here. This week. But we know Patrick

Reed and Bryson de Shamber coming. I mean all of a sudden they have accumulated critical mass of major championship winners, future Hall of famers. Um. But but needle movers right, like surgery. Garcia is not really a a factor. We can we got on the PGA Tour, but he moves in the needle. He's a very polarizing Patrick Read, superpolarizing Bryson de Shambo, incredibly polarizing Ian Poulter, you know, very much love hate kind of personality. So they're not They're

not the best golfers in the world anymore. But I mean you can say Patrick Reed might be, but um, they are. They are huge personalities. And then you throw pill into that mix. Um, you know, Dustin I don't think I think people mostly love Dustin. But if they get Ricky Fowler, I mean that's a lot of star power that that's a lot of personality the average fan connects with. I mean, like John Rom Colin Marikawa. They're

better golfers anyone that's in this live field. But they don't don't they don't inspire any emotion, right, I mean, they're fun to watch play golf, but nobody really cares about them, even the way they do about Patrick Reid or Sergio Garcia or Bryson or any of these dudes. So it's it's interesting, well, I mean, Live is sort of O l I V. They've sort of corned the market on on the bad boys and and the contrarians and um, the people that get that really get social

media fired up. So it's it's worth king. I think that's the bottom line that's working. I just think from I mean, obviously the longevity of it and is that but from a TV watching perspective, obviously on YouTube and on my computer. But I mean it was really good. It was really good. The shotguns start works. My wife, who never watches golf, is like, holy kaw, we just saw, you know, fifteen drives in a row. Like at the beginning of the event. It was like boom boom boom

boom booh boomp. And you know, obviously some of that is because it's a new product and whatever, but like, I mean, I kind of explained it. I was just talking to Mark. It's like it's like starting a race and the cars are already going around right like it's it was like back to back to back every if they got bigger names and it was like, you know, Phil, I don't tell you it's not there, but like Phil Tiger Rory. If they got bigger names and that's how

you opened a golf show. I think it was awesome. The leaderboard on the side was awesome. Uh, you know, the constant action. Obviously they don't have any answers, so it's easy to give constant shots. But I think just from a TV watching perspective, I was really really impressed. I was. My expectations were, let's hope the cameras on and the MIC's work, and they were like pretty seasoned. Uh. In my opinion, yeah, they brought they brought in pros.

I mean, they know what they're doing. It's also cool. It's an underrated thing is they've all played basically the same number of holes, So the leader board has a lot of meaning. You know, on a Thursday, one guy's in the clubhouse at minus three, someone Birdie's first two holes. But you can't compare those scores. There's so much such a disparity and how many how deep into their round

they are. But pretty much you look at the board, you know everyone's played the same number of holes plus or minus one and so um, to me, the leaderboard takes on even more value. And but I agree, Ryan, I mean it was it was. It was neat to when you know you're on you're walking around out there

and just there's golf everywhere. And you know, if you go out early on a Thursday morning at a tour event, or on a Friday morning or Saturday or Sunday for that matters lonely, you know, it takes a while to fill up the golf course. But it was just it was it was fans everywhere because they you know, some some people wanted to watch Phil, someone to watch the English lads. There was a South African contingent of fans out there are pretty boisterous and there's a there's a

bunch of South Africans here. Um, so the crowd was was pretty big, pretty loud, and nicely spread out. I mean, they're the Phil Dustin group definitely had the biggest gallery. But I was impressed, you know, it was it was

a pretty good coverage throughout the whole course. But right away, like you're saying, like you just you went from zero to a hundred really quickly, from from kind of the fan experience from the beginning to the end and again like everybody's finishing at the same time was really cool in my opinion. You know, like no one's ever watched eight straight hours of TV of golf, Like it's compacted. So if you know, like you know you're gonna watch

the last two hours, you're gonna see everybody. I thought it was. I thought it was. I was very skeptical a that they could pull anything off that. I mean, they've had a lot of stumbles leading up to this.

I was like, I didn't think they had a chance to pull off a good product, and I mean it was simple things like that a drone shot and I know, Ellen, you were on site, so you might not have saw it, but there was a drone shot of Phil and Dustin and Scott Vincent walking up the uh fairway when they had little bubbles over their head with their face and their score and like you know, pointing to who it is is very minor, but it was like b roll

waiting for the next shot to start. And it was an added thing you know that the PGA Tour doesn't do or p J recoverage doesn't do. It kind of felt like XFL. Remember when XFL came out and they ran for the ball in the middle of the field and they had this sky cam over that the you know, like, there's there's some aspects to what's going on here at I think the traditional tour can I really learn from

the way. I mean, if this wasn't four billion dollars worth of Saudi Arabian money, I think they're everybody on this call would be rooting for this, this kind of disruption and change to the old, stuffy, you know, presentation of what is golf that a big chunk of Twitter verse just rails on on a regular, regular basis. I mean, in so many ways, this answers so many issues and questions about how we can truly advance this old fuddy duddy,

you know way of things. And yet it's run by Saudi Arabia at backed by Saudi Arabian, run by Greg Norman. We could just get Saudi Arabian Greg Norman out of the picture. This could be something really worth rooting for. Well. I mean it kind of makes me think about you know what we talk about the Firepit collective. It's like, Okay, we and our long careers, all of us watched all the mistakes that are that our bosses and our companies made, and we've learned from those and we've tried to have

a much leaner, more efficient, more extremeline model. And you know that's what these guys have that benefit. You know, they've all I got to do is is follow Twitter on Saturday or Sunday. And you know what everyone hates about the current TV covered, So there's there's a blueprint out there if you're paying attention, Like I think you're right.

I mean, they've they have a chance, and I mean, I can't remember where I said this, but I like the idea of different formats and they should just keep going, like keep pushing it. And someone, um someone tweeter are they gonna introduce like Mulligan gimmes? I was like, why not? I mean, just keep going, like if you want to. We we know what traditional golf looks like that next week at the US Open. That's old school golf and that's great and we all love it and venerate it.

They're not that so I mean a breakfast breakfast ball off the breakfast ball off the first would be amazing, wouldn't it. Just Like I don't want a lot of places in the UK doesn't have a driving range, so we are, you know, pretty standard rules, no driving range, breakfast ball didn't get Oh you're showing up a little late, all right, we'll give you a breakfast ball. Yeah. What was it like to say, some of the establishment people, they're like a Johns Hopkins or a slug or White.

If you happen seeing either those guys or or anybody else and they look like fish out of water, what was it like just to see him? No, that that added, Yeah, that's a good question. Like that added to my sense of it felt like kind of a mid level tour event on a Thursday, where you have some stars, you have some people you never heard of, and you have some holes have a lot of fans, some holes only have a half dozen. And um, I was struck more

than anything by the normalcy. You know, once they really just started playing golf, it was just golf. And that's a compliment. I mean, that's a huge accomplishment for live. You know, basically, in one year they've from scratch built what felt like a very legitimate, pretty big time professional golf tournament with some major championship winners and a good leaderboard, and you know, I kind of like the course. I've really never heard of it until a few months ago.

But beautiful setting, rolling countryside outside of London, and narrow fairways and and kind of funky greens like this kind of course I would love playing. It doesn't strike me as a traditional venue form for a professional tournament. I mean it's really tight in some spots. Um, but that's great. I mean we know what Wingfold look looks like. You know what the country club looks like. I mean again, if they're if they're gonna, if they want to be

different than then go to different places. And um, so I thought it was I thought it was a pretty good test. Did you have the sense more people were was the bulk of the gallery following Phil in DJ or did you have a sense that you know there was other people following other groups? Yeah, Polter had a good cry out. You know, West would had a good crowd. Obviously we're in England, so you know those guys, especially especially Polter, I mean even based in the US, they

just they don't play at home that much. And um, you know I asked Poulter about that afterwards. He said, yeah, it was it was a delight to play in front of the home fans, and um, you know they had that had meaning for them. So um, definitely Phil. You know, I'd say Phil and DJ probably siphoned off half of the total gallery at least in the beginning. Um, but um, it's an interesting it's an interesting like nine doesn't come

back to the clubhouse. In fact, nine is as far away as you can get really, So I think there's a nice three whole loop, and I think after the first three wholes some fans like I don't want to keep you know, marching out into the middle of nowhere. And so it felt felt like things got a little more dispersed to people's found some vantage points and um, but yeah, it was you know, Dustin and fills a

lot of star power. If they're paired together any any tournament on tour, they would probably have the biggest gallery if Tigers not playing. So that that felt oprit and it just felt kind of normal. Um, you know, you've been following this so closely for so long and everything has seemed kind of unreal. Was there a moment today like Okay, we know where the PGA tour sins, we know these guys are gonna sue they're actually playing golf

where people there are faces here I actually recognize. Was there ever, like, oh my god, they don't believe it for you, was there a moment of oh my god, I don't believe that this thing is actually happening, prior prior to being dragged out, prior to being how we know that it's unreal? No, it was when so all that, you know, I was walking out there with other other reporters, and I mean there's a there's a decent number of

American reporters. I was walking with Sean Zac, you know, our old colleague Michael, and we were just chatting about this and that, and um, you know all the UK guys were friendly with, you know, Bob Harrigs here, Kevin van Waukeenberg. I mean, it's a pretty good turnout of you know, the golf beat. So yeah, that added to the normalcy of it all. But yeah, when when the email got leaked about all the players are suspended it, that was surreal because we all knew it, but the

guys between the ropes did not. I mean, they're playing golf. No one's on their phone, they're not messing around, and so it was like like holy cow. Like it was kind of like, okay, the plot just thickened yet again. I kind of knew that that Monahan had to do something, but he came out hard right and um. And so then it kind of set up the surreal thing where everyone in the gallery knew that these guys were suspended. Their lines had just changed, their careers had just changed.

They didn't know they're outher, you know, grinding or four footers and uh. And so then I'll come off the course at the same time, it's like bang bang bang and just um, um, you know, like the standard response as well, I need to think about it. Let me digest this. But then like Poulter talked about it, um,

Schwartzel talked about it. You know, it wasn't a shock to them, but it was a little awkward that that was a surreal moment to answer your question, like, Wow, the whole future of the sport just changed, and these guys don't even know it while we're watching them play. That is weird. Did you get a chance to talk to any players? Yes, I mean so I was, I asked, I asked Poulter question and I asked schwarts little question. Um, I didn't get to I mean, I think that the

filth thing never happened. Um, but that that's one of the that's honestly one of the challenges of the Shotgun is all the players are done all at once, and they're coming from a million different places, and it's hard to corral them. And um, professionally, it's much better whenever they come every twelve minutes. You can you can hit one guy after another, like you know, Michael and Ryan e too, Matt. I mean, you know how that goes. But all of a sudden, it's just a mad scramble.

So and then I was dealing with all this other stuff, so I I really didn't get to do that kind of reporting. I would have liked to because I was to circle back to our original conversation to anybody, did you see anyone lost on what t they were supposed to start? Yeah, I mean I was hanging out by number one because that's where that's where Phil and Dustin were, and that was it was. I put a video up. I mean, it was a great crowd around the first he have hundreds of people and a lot of energy.

But Schwartzel told the funny story he was on number three and he got there and there was no other players and he had like ten minutes he's all alone. Yeah you called it. It's like grahammar are you man? Like we gotta pag you? So your prediction was was bang on Ryan? Was there actually a shotgun that went off? Like? I mean, what so that was? I mean, it's actually it's hokey, but it was fun. They had um you know, they had like buglers like you know when you start

a fox hunt, you know, the English countryside. So I was like, do do? Do? Do do do? And uh that's how that's how you knew. And uh, you know, I thought that was a nice touch. The black calves was kind of a cute touch. And that they did this flyover and you know we've all seen flyovers in the US. It's like the B fifty two stealth bomb or and like you go deaf when they roar over.

These were like old They looked like World War two like dog fighting, like propeller planes, and there was the whole squadron like it was just there was kind of an of stealiness slash refinement that kind of made it fun. I mean, it's been easy to to roll our eyes and all this stuff. But they kind of got some of the details right and it kind of added to

the whole celebratory feeling. What was the press tent food quality? Like, you know, that's a very important question, as you know, Michael, Um, I would say lunch was was a solid D minus. But then um, they actually had they brought in dinner, which doesn't always happened, and that was really good. So um that kind of redeemed the whole thing. So yeah, And if you like even the details of the press tent, I mean, if you if I blindfold you, Mike and I took you there, you you might think you're in

an open championship, But just how's that look? You know, it might even be the same vendor, and uh so, um yeah, I mean it's it's funny they can't get ot their own way. I mean, part of the whole, the whole live. And I will say, like a very they're super liberal about what you can and can't do as a reporter. So I'm out there studing videos posting them to social media. Great, they like that because they

get it. They want us to promote their product. And as you guys on this call and a lot of our listeners know the tours not that way, and we've had our battles. So that was liberating and fun, like, oh, I can just here's filling the trees. Let me just shoot like a cool little thirty second video and bang, like wow, that was that felt great And so that that's a that's a great leap forward for the fans because you know, you can't it's a two acre playing field,

you can. They also don't have a network partnership, right, so they don't you know, they're not that in theory. They need everything they can get at this. Yeah. Yeah, so all that stuff is great, but then it's like to have to have Norman come and like personally tossed me out of this this press commerce and turn into this whole like ridiculous side show. Like they just they take two steps forwards and they take like they take

like a step and a half backwards. A um, there's a there's a level of sophistication there, and they do get a lot of the details, right, But I mean, Norman, this would be probably hard on for you to gauge. But I'm sorry, yeah, no, no, I'm just saying, when when if you make a list of like the cock ups and the things that go sideways. He was like Norman's always involved, But go ahead, Michael. But the tickets were so expensive and the Brits are not a customed

paying a lot of money to watch golf. Um, do you think these are actually paying fans? Could you? Did you get a sense of it one way or the other? Yeah? So they they did. Um, they had discounts that are floating around the players put out. It was very easy to find off discount code and for a while you could, I think for a short period of time, and they were you could get them for free. I kind of missed the boat on that, Like I actually bought tickets.

I paid you know, my fire Pit credit card because they did not initially credential me. Um. How much it was was like I think about a hundred pounds. I used the not twent discount. I went with him because the fewest number of letters. It's a lot easier than spelling Nicholson and and so. Um. That was just for Thursday and Friday. They were showing on the website that Saturday was sold out. Um now sold out is is kind of a funny term because they were given to

they were literally giving them away for free. But um, I mean there was definitely some super golfy dudes, like you know, you could tell from eaves dropping on the conversations, from the logos they were wearing, like these guys looked like serious golf fans. It was also definitely some folks who've probably never been a golf term before. And um, they were kind of wandering around a little lost, and um that was cute. I mean that that's actually fun energy.

I always like when there's new fans. I saw that at um Southern Hills, you know, like that's okay, we we want those people to come and have a good time. Um. But um, I don't have a sense of who paid what, but um, I would say it was it was a pretty overall pretty golfy crowd. So I think they got the demographic they wanted. And you know, in the parking lot there was a lot of nice cars. There's a lot of range Rovers and there was Bentley's and all

that stuff. So I mean, I think they kind of penetrated the the upper crust London sports fan and that obviously it was a goal of theirs. It is it, I mean, is live golf literally buying professional golf. I mean with four hundred billion dollars and in the tour with eight hundred million to try to like go up again. I mean other than major championships. What's stopping them from literally just buying one player at a time. That's their

business model. Nothing stopping them is working. I mean they've now amassed enough good slash great players or notable players they can't be ignored. Like you know, Monaghan had said he was gonna suspend guys, so we had to follow through on the threat. Or he looked like he's even more lost at seed than he already is. But that's just an opening gambit. I mean, this is all going to get litigated and or negotiated, and I'm not I

think those suspensions may not hold. I mean, um, I feel like the tour at this point they don't want to get they don't want to concede defeat. But they might just have to hold their nose and and make another strategic alliance and just bring the Saudis into the fold, because the European PGA tour is getting killed, you know, all at all these top Europeans and South Africans, they're just gonna bandon the European Tour to play the Saudis, and the tour is already kind of floating. The PATO

is already floating the European Tour. So the European Tour is taking the biggest hit in all of this um and the tour, the PGA Tour is now bound together with them. So to me, it doesn't serve the interests of the tour or its fans or its sponsors to ban very popular golfers who have you know who are and be in the Hall of Fame, like Dustin feels already there guys like Ricky who we all kind of roll our eyes, but Ricky Poyler is still very popular golfer.

Um Like, how do how does it serve the interests of those tournaments if if those guys never play on

the PGA Tour again, it just doesn't. And well, the other thing is like if we are we silly to think that brooks kept is not right behind him at some point, I mean, his brothers playing all of his buddy I mean, I just I don't think there's any way that Brooke doesn't go as well at some point and and and at some point these pg we saw a T and T got you know, undermined by the guys going and playing the actual Saudi event, and that couldn't have felt good for a T and T polling

up all this money and then you know, having all these guys just go, At what point do all the big money sponsors who are paying all this money to get this, you know, this field of notables and needle movers push back on the tour and say whoa, whoa, whoa and how at what point do the do the broadcast partners say, uh, our ratings are dropping because the needle movers aren't showing up, and like, at some point this is gonna be there's gonna be more of a

push to the tour than just the Patrick Reid's and the Bryson Deshambo's. I mean, this is going to keep going in a direction that doesn't bode well for for j and the PGA tour. Well. I mean, look at look at the top five at the Canadian Opening has been played this week. Wyndham Clark, Matt Fitzpatrick, Doug Gim, Harold Varner, Patrick Rodgers Like um, I like the leaderboard

at the live event a lot better. Uh, you know, you have three guys who won Masters at the top of the board with with Micholson and Dustin and and and schwartzell Um, you know Rory's lurking in Canada. I mean he's obviously a star, but Um Lee Hodges, Carlos Ortiz, Jim Canos, like, um, Mark Hubbard, Alex Smalley, like, that's the leaderboard in in Canada. So I mean, I'm on this call. Let's not disparage the lesser known players. I mean,

they're great human beings, They're fantastic. Jim Jim's one of the best guys. I know. I love Jimmy hard Kay. I'm just saying the executive RBC sit around and talk about the return on their investment for the tens of

millions of dollars they're plowing into this event. They're not thinking about don gim like come on, so um so yeah, I mean, I mean, honestly, and this brings up a conversation that Mark and I had today is you know, every a lot of people are saying that some of these people leave and it creates more opportunities for players

like Mark and Marcus. Like I think eventually, in the long run, it's going to create less opportunities because they're gonna look at that model and go like, that's what we need to go to, right, And it's gonna be like who has the most stars packed on the board? You know? And and I don't I don't think it's

out of the question. If Live succeeds that that one day, a lot of tournaments on the PGA Tour are back to you know, w G C s or whatever you want to call him marks Like I think in the long run, short term, obviously it's creating more opportunities for players like myself. But in the long run, I can see this being the corn Ferry is gonna replace the ten bottom players on you know, the PGA Tour, and

that's it. And every because the PGA Tour is notoriously not cared about that vacuum that is constantly filled, right, They just want the top players to be at the board. Yeah. Well, if you know, if remember Joe Ogilvie, the tour player went to Duke. Now he's like a money manager. He probably should be the next commissioner the PGA Tour. He's such a smart guy. He did a little Twitter threat he was making that point Ryan that um the is already so bloated, and when you peel off some of

the stars, they're gonna have to trim the fat. And he said, you know, instead of Hunt Top Hunter twenty five keeping their card and might go down to eighty or ninety, like, just you have to shrink the whole model so it gets less expensive for the sponsors and

less overhead for the tour itself. And um, you know, fewer tournaments, smaller fields, like fewer exempt players, like yeah, I think that that could be that that could be the future of the PG threat met That's that's why Jay Monahan like, it's more than just a short term thing, like this is an existential threat too to the PG eight tours. It serves you know, it's gonna survive, but is it going to prosper Like that's really the question.

And we talked about this previously, but you know, the Saudis are very cleverly going after these young amateurs and trying to take the next generation of players away as well. So, um, it was all you you guys haven't seen it obviously unless you saw my tweet, but of all days, of all days, to release Q school registration and increase it

for the tenth consecutive year they picked this day. You can't get to the PGA Tour and Q school now costs sixty five dollars it is in two thousand and twelve it was three thousand dollars and you can get to the PGA Tour. And Mark had a great tweet. He highlighted uh Jay's letter to all the players and said, it's all about money, money, money with the Saudis, and here's here's the p G a tour taking from people

who have no money. You know, for the most part, obviously there's plenty of players that have money to charge six to Q School, you know, like it. It's look in the mirror at some point of part of this that that is a great That is a great point. Ryan, Um, do you have any sense to Ryan's point earlier about,

you know, would there be more world golf events? And my own sense is at the majors if this thing takes off, which it would definitely appear that that it will that over time the majors have become only more important because to be fewer times that we're really an old timey courses with big trophies and you know, the world's best players. But that only works if you actually have the best players in the world playing in the majors, and you need world ranking points for that to happen,

among many other ways of getting in. Do you have any further sense of what might happen in terms of getting world ranking points by playing these livaments? I mean it has to happen. How can you not give out were ranking points to this event, which is better? You know they give it to Hero which is twenty guys with no cut um. And if you're gonna, you're gonna have situations where the live field is clearly superior to the PGA Tour. It makes a mockery of the world

rankings if they don't assign points. Now, Peter Dawson is is the chair of the you know, the independent body that oversees the world ranking. We know he's died in the woold traditionalists, but um it, it's really gonna the change will come from from the majors. I mean there, and people say, oh, there, they're gonna. The majors are gonna, especially Augusta there. They don't want to live rebellion. They're they're they're they're gonna freeze out the players that makes

no sense to me. I mean Augusta National, like the PG of America, like the U s g A, like the RNA. They want the best possible tournament. They get to do it once a year. They want all the stars there, they want all the contenders, They want the deepest field. Like why do they care about some turf war between the PG Tour and Live Golf? That's it's not their fight. They care about having an incredible showcase. They get to do it one week every year. So

like does the Master's. They don't want Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson to their most popular champions. I mean, give me a break, why why would why would they ban them just because Jay Monahan's batted his job? Like, it makes no sense, And they don't want and to your point in the last podcast, they don't want a bunch of research done on how many members at Augusta National

have business in Saudi Arabia. I mean, I truly think that I was thinking about this at a T and T when the guys went and played that Saudi event. At that point, why wouldn't Is this going to become a bunch of invitationals where a company puts up x amount of dollars and invites the players they want to invite, and has the people there that want to be there, Like, is this just because like, does the West Coast Swing

become like its own little mini tour? And does the Florida like Swing become its own mini tour in which players play that chunk of of courses in preparation for something a little more meaningful. I mean, this could literally potentially be a series of smaller breakaway leagues formed by you know again, follow the dollar. The money is what matters. They are playing for money, with the exception of the big major championships. Why doesn't this just become a bunch

of Live like tours. I mean, there's the whole I can't. I'm not sure how quickly Live abandons the whole team concept because that just seems like pretty ridiculous. I mean, the problem, well, just about the team thing. First, this is such a transitional year and they're trying to get players and they're trying to sort it out. So the team things kind of a turkey because they're gonna have

different teams every event. It's not carried through. It potentially gets more interesting when you have the same team together for the whole year, and then you can't have a rooting interest and more commonly embetting interest, and then you start caring more. You could do trades in the middle of the season. That would be super interesting. Well, if you could have a roster, if you can have a deeper roster, if you could have a starting four at

a at a four people on the bench. Yeah, if it was if it was like Graham mcdowald being traded for Kevin nah in the middle of the season and that meant that team was in the tour change. I mean, it's just it's different, and I know it's fun, like old old crowd of casual golf fans, but that's like try something, we bitch and bitch and bitch that golf doesn't do anything new, and then when we try something new,

we all bitched that it sucks. I think I think it can well, like you, I mean, I think it's just this is a compromise, Like, Okay, we're gonna do have some team element because we promised it. We just gotta get through this season and then we'll have firmer commitments and and they'll lock it in next year and it'll be more fun. But the players like the team element.

Like Schwartzel was saying he had a five foot or for bogey and he was thinking, like all he was thinking about was his He knew his ball was going to count because whatever going on was his teammates and he's like, I gotta make this put. These guys are gonna really piste off at me, and this guy has

a chance to win the tournament. And he said, I honestly cared more about coming through for the team than what it meant from my own score and the individual, which is saying something because four million dollars to the winner, but you know, Poulter talked about that because he played poorly and he's like, oh, man, I left the team down and I'm I'm so you know, so we're not focused on it, but they are. And oh, by the way,

it's like real money. The winning team gets three million dollars split four ways like that on top of the individual and and then they carry it out throughout the year and there's more bonuses coming. So like, these guys care about the team event way more than than any of us could imagine, for interpersonal reasons but also for financial So I think it has a tance to be fun. But it's a little it's a little wonky this year. Did they did they use golf genius? Was their long drive?

Who got the closest the pins? And who won the skins? I know? Right? I mean literally, like they shouldn't incorporate some of that stuff, like, um, like why not? Why not have have some closest de pens on the part three, He's like, just go for it. Okay, I'm I'm through over the day. I'm not playing great. There's here's a tough flag. Normally I hit them all the green. But you know what, music, I can win half a million

dollars in one swing. Like That's what I'm saying, Like they live should instead of trying to be you know, traditional respectable golf, they should lean into all this stuff and just make it super fun music. People can ride around with speakers, you know, speakers, you know, play a little What are you saying, Michael, did you send any encorese scambling on the on the players amongst the fans? Um?

I did not. That's a good question. I mean you do hear that more and more now here to tour event, Uh, you know, come on, come on, kept I got you on my in my parlay or whatever it is. You know people, it gets verbalized more and more. But I didn't pick that up British open so yeah, yeah, for sure, Um, I really didn't. But I'll try and tune into that a little bit more tomorrow. Well let's let's let's let's let you get to actually writing the story that I

can't wait to read. I will end with this, this, this exchange, I mean, coming back all good narratives, come back to the beginning. So you're escorted out. Um, we get h Alex from CNN, who Alex Thomas from CNN, who shares the video of you. Uh, you send a text message to Greg Norman, tell us tell us more about sort of what what you ultimately tweeted out after

this the scuffle. It's so ridiculous. So I I I texted Norman sort of shortly after this whole confrontation because I'm like, are they gonna are they gonna keep sucking with me this whole week? Like they didn't get me inside the Ropes lanyard, which is not that big deal. The crowds aren't that big. I mean I was inside the ropes for a few holes anyway because everybody's inside the ropes. But then, um, you know, every other reporter

has an inside the ropes land heard there. I mean, I guess they don't want me to make eye contact with Phil on the golf course. Like okay, whatever, I don't that's not a big deal. But like after this, like I came a long way, like I wanted to be able to do my job, so I wanted to have a conversation with Norman, like what the fuck? And so I texted him right away and he didn't respond. Um, and then we got ahold of this tape. And the first time I watched the tape, I didn't even noticed

Norman in the background. It was you, Matt, who was like, look at Norman. I was like, oh my god, there is so while I was like looking at this state, Norman texts me and I gotta get the wording because it's so funny, like I wrote to him, let me call this up. I got it. Yeah, oh yeah, okay, yeah, I'll read it. Yeah. So yourman, Yeah, your your text to Norman. Are you aware that I just got muscled out of Phil's press conference by a couple of your goons?

Question Mark Luckily for you guys. I kept my cool and de de escalated the situation. Please call me to discuss uh Norman's respect happens by rightn't half yet? I don't have was by did not hear. Thanks for letting me know you responded back. That's funny because Colin and you screenshot a picture of you talking to goon one and Norman is right off your shoulder, staring right at you had this situation. You cannot make this ship up his keystone cops. And when when I when I first

texted Norman, it wasn't like a gotcha. I really hadn't seen the video. I had no idea he was even there. And and then right when we were looking at the video, that's when he texted me back and said, I had no idea. It's like so absurd, like there was there was dozens and dozens of people there, Like who saw him standing there? I didn't because he was behind me like lurking in the shadows like a snake, but everyone else saw it. Like it's just so ridiculous, Like Greg

Norman has got to go. Greg Norman has got to go, Like I mean, uh, Saudi's not going anywhere. Saudi Arabia is they're they're here to stay. But what is do they see in Greg Norman? They say, this is our guy. Well, I mean, yes, he's made he's made some colossal, you know, foot and mouth mistakes. But I don't think the Saudi's care about that. He's delivered. He got the players, like it was not easy and it was messy, and but

he delivered like he's you. You gotta give him his due, like um, Now, maybe maybe people signed in spite of him, but not because of him. But the fact is, it's like, you know, you knew the coach and the team's winning, you're a great coach, and when they lose and you're a bad coach. But he got the players here. They they're playing, their playing a live tournament. So I think the Saudis they're clearly not worried about public relations based on what they do, uh as you know, So I

think that stuff is just noise to them. The fact is, you know, they're top guys from the public investment funder. They played the program with Phil, they had a great old time. They you know, they're out there hugging people, are they're living large on the first team. This is a great day for them. It's a great moment for them. Sports Washing totally totally agree with that, Alan because everything that Greg Norman represents he got now. With all due respect,

Norman is the key key player here. They're not getting rid Enrman. Norman's charisman outside personality and the wine drinking and the dating life and the and the swashbut thing is everything that that repressed Saudi regime is not. So they love Norman, There's no question. I don't think there's any question about that. I've seen it with my with my own eyes. He's got this thing. Can I ask you a quick business question? I believe that. Tell me

if I have this wrong. I think Callaway temporarily at least dropped Nicholson. And yet I thought I saw Nicholson wearing Callaway, Ryan, you seem to know the answer you already They put it on pause. So, okay, is he is he off the bus already or was he not wearing He hasn't, yeah, I mean, he hasn't wanted to talk about any of those questions. He hasn't wanted to

answer them. But it was interesting. He was wearing an Augusta national vest, but it looked like he'd sharpeat it out because it was very monochromatic, which I've never seen from them. It was like kind of black on black, like I get Sharpie's and I sometimes do that on on labels, and so it had that look. Um. But his clothing he didn't have any Callaway as His hat was just his own personal logo and the rest of his clothes was pretty clean. But he's still using Callaway

golf clubs. And and then his golf bag was that just a plain bag or you know, I didn't notice the bag that it was big. It was his own logo bag. Yeah, hat was on logo. He was playing Callawe Orange ten guys under par McDowell four over Westwood, five over Poulter, five of over Wisberger seven over. Uh. It's a I mean, I guess he got the players. He got just enough, like he got the bare minimum

to make this thing work. And and I think, Okay, so you know, they's they've had to answer some uncomfortable questions this week from but that'll wear off. I mean, I don't think they're gonna get asked those questions week after week. I just it becomes tedious for the reporters. And the fans. I mean that that's that's the sad thing about sports watching is it works because we get tired of repeating ourselves and people just tune it out. I mean it just it just that's how it is.

And so, um, I think they're gonna get more players. I really do, like, um, they've seen Wow, that looks like kind of like fun. There's not that much blowback. You know, most of these guys are still wearing their logos, like you know Ups obviously that that was a high profile thing that they draw up, Um Westwood, but everyone else's logoed out here. I mean there they look normal. So how that gets Maybe maybe they have to get to the end of the year and things will start

dropping off next year, who knows. But at the same time, you know, if you're you're at Callaway, you want to sell clubs in England, you want to sell clubs in Thailand where this this circuit is going, you want to sell them in the Middle East. So equipment companies, I don't think they're that bothered, you know, they're I think they'll they'll stay that. Um, some publicly traded companies there

may be some pressure, but you know, as discussed. The Public Investment Fund is a shareholder in a lot of companies already. People have been doing business over there for you know, seventy years. Many fortunes in this country have been made through Saudi Arabia, So um it. I think that I think that a lot of these corporations. I can stick by the players because it's just a big platform and they're playing a lot in the US, They're

playing all around the world. Like it might be attracted to some people, So watching the logos will be interesting a little from this year to next. And on June nine through eleven, backed by Saudi Money, Live Golf is underway. Yeah, it's happening. It's it's undeniable. I mean, there's been a few people on social media be like, oh, you're over there glorifying it. It's like it's aid. It's a bona fide news event. It's a big deal for the sport.

We've all registered our our disdain and our our our our outrage, and we've we've asked the hard questions and now it's like the playing golf tournament. I'm here, I'm gonna write about the golf tournament, and I'm gonna write about the players, and um, you know, I don't think it's cheerleading to just give an honest account of what it felt like on the grounds, and so, um, it's not. It's not that we're not by being here myself and the whole collective, we're not all of a sudden pro

Saudi Arabia. We're just saying, this is a big moment for the sport and it demands to be taken seriously. So that's why I'm here. Your game story and more fire drills to come, Ryan, any final comments. I mean, wow, just what a what a cool time to be in golf media. I mean, what a what a crazy time to be in golf media. It is uh a wild,

wild time. I would have guess obviously I've only been in a little bit, but Michael and Alan and Matt, for you guys to think about what is happening over the last two weeks, let alone just today, you would have I would assume, I guess I'm asking, would never would have ever thought to see any of this, right, Yeah, Remember Michael, when it was you know, the Ryder Cup team really wanted to get paid to play in the

Ryder Cup. That was a big deal. Michael final comments, Well, if Alan wouldn't mind, if this might be two persons more than Alan once, this might be more than what Alan wants to give away. But to borrow from that's question the other day, if you had a chance to ask Philip question, what would you want to ask from at this point? Like good stuff? I know I know that one stuff because but it's us the other day of the stuff, I mean, well this point, I say, what are you afraid of? I mean, I sent you

the book a month ago. I'm presuming you've at least flipped through it like it's all out there, like, what are you afraid of? I'm I'm not, I'm not. I wasn't gonna ask him some gotcha question. I mean really, you know what I wanted to ask him was did you have fun out there? Like did you feel like a rookie again? Like that was gonna be my question is not exactly chin music, you know, like I'm I'm fucking tired of being the story Like I'm really no one is more tired of Alan ship like that. I

am like this fucking guy off the stage. But um, you know, like I just don't want what are He's so paranoid about that he's gonna be whispering in Greg's year to have these goons like prevent me from asking some just boring golf question, Like I would think that, um, it would be healthy for Phil an you want I was, I wasn't sure if was gonna be his press conference at the US Open. I'm gonna go and sit in

the front row. At this point, like this is like that become ridiculous, Like, um, I mean, what are you afraid of? Phil Is? I think he's gonna be very popular in Boston because I mean, we all know Boston sportsman's they're like stick it to the man. Oh yeah, I mean the same the same Bostonians who stood for New York City after nine eleven and and and all that took place for going now rah rah rad For Phil. Sports fans are compartmentalized. I mean I think they're just like, um,

I think I think you're right, Mike. I mean, there will be a few hecklers. But Phil did his time. You know, he was out of the game for four months. He he's come back, and even even though his comments were a little, um, we're a little coached, I mean, it was a big deal. For him to admit he has a gambling addiction. He's never gone that far. We we you know, there was a lot of anecdotal evidence in my can elsewhere, like we kind of knew he

had a problem. But to actually use the word addiction, say he's done hundreds of hours of therapies, you have to battle this the rest of his life, Like that's very humanizing and that that takes a level of humility and even courage to like put it out there like that. And I think, you know, if he's just real like that, it makes me even more attractive and so um, you know, I think I think you're right. I think people are gonna be pulling for him. Just a very sorry man.

If I could just make a very quick point about that, he has a very clever I think Ari Fleischer uh coached policy of if it relates to the PJ two ur he's not going to talk about it. This is

totally speculation. I want to make that really clear. But if he gambled on himself, if if, if, if he gambled on himself in a p J two or event, and if others know about that, that would be a big deal, and that would be costly, and that would explain why, since he's already public about the gamble, he doesn't want to do about anything related to the pj T.

Does that make any sense? O? Yeah, yeah, No. I kind of feel like all this public talk about the gambling is a preemptive strike against Billy Walter's book, not mine. That like that's already out there. And um, I mean I've just told some things off the record they're not in the book, and I'm just gonna leave it at that. But I think, you know, Billy Walters may have some stories to tell on the gambling front that it's useful

for Phil to get out in front of. And I think that you know, we all know people who have addiction and and gambling addiction is a real thing. I mean, many lives have been destroyed, and so when you couch it like that, uh it, you become more sympathetic. And it really was something that took over his life and was out of control. And so, um, I think it's genuine, but I think it's also strategic. Well, Alan, you showed great courage to get on a plane, get out there,

do what you do. I'm proud to call you a colleague. I appreciate your pre st the effort and energy, and I can't wait, you can't wait to read the story of my friends. Yeah, well, let's not overstate it. I mean, this is not a national signal, I guess. I mean it starts to bleed into it a little bit. It's just golf, it is, it's it's just golf. It's not that important, none of this is. But it's fascinating and it's goodding. It's getting moreesting by the day. Put another

log on the fire? Are we here? Is? Get the time