Fire Drill 017: The Comeback Kid

you I all had a good time. Put another logo fire nobody here give the time, Hello and welcome back to another fire drill. This is Alan Schipnuk on my left, his frequent wingman, Michael Bamberger. Michael, do you want anything to be here? It's been an interesting day and we got Jeff. Yeah, we have Jeff Ogil You coming in from Melbourne. Jeff, thanks for doing this. Yeah, yeah, no worries. I am coming in hot from the playoff. I think I still have some of Jim McKay's tears on my sweater. Uh.

It was it was emotional, it was memorable. I don't even know where to start. Jeff, tell us what you thought, you know, the takeaways justin Thomas wanted the second PG championship, but the day was a war of attrition. A lot of guys were there until until they weren't. What's your take away from this very action packed final round? Yeah amazing, I mean it looked we look destined to have a

first time champion of something. I mean CBS showed a great graphic at some point like the amount of wins on the leaderboard was just a time as fourteen and Rory twenty and no one else had won anything, which was amazing. Um, yeah, crazy day, fun to watch, I mean, pretty compelling. And then it shows you don't need I mean we had to show one of the big big dogs win in the end, but it shows you don't really need all the big dogs up there to make

exciting golf and compelling sort of viewing. You know. Um sad for me though, and when he played well the whole week, they played well a whole week. Um, not a fun way to finish, but JT, I mean with about an hour ago, it looked a little ominous at j T. If you just gets in the house here, I mean that finishes. I mean the birdies there, but there's a bit of carntage there as well, so well

done to him. To be fair, if you actually look at the scoreboard, history is going to see a scoreboard and say three seven, I think you shot this week. I mean, he's probably the best player there. Um, just a bit of a rough Saturday yesterday, like everyone had. But yeah, I founder watching the end and look, we had a leaderboard full of guys that we didn't think I would be up there at the start of the week, and we didn't know it was going to win. It

was all that, and then we ended up two. Probably got a pre tournament favorites at the end, which sort of came out of nowhere. So um fun to watch in a good winner. It's astounding how golf really needs to be played at seven you tube holes. This is not a live common with fifty four holes. It's just there is something magical, magical about getting to the seventies second green of a major championship, and no one's more equipped to talk about that than you, But it really is.

As Allen said, it's a war of attrition, and it's just neat to see the whole thing unfold slowly and get to the finishing line the seventy second hole. If anything. It shows you the when you play a course like Southern Hills, I mean, inevitably it throws up a great champion in the end. I mean, it took seventy two

holes to get us there. But if you look at the list of champions, Justin fits in very nicely along that list, you know what I mean, And for a while there it's like, Wow, we're gonna get a different one. But um, yeah, you're right in this case. Yeah amazing. I was gonna say this, this felt a little bit like wing Foot in two thousand and six, where so much is happening. A bunch of guys had a chance

wild swings on the leaderboard. When you're in the middle of a dog fight like that, Jeff, and you're just trying to focus on your game, you can hear the roars, you can see the numbers changed on the board. Like, how hard is it just to stay in your bubble and play your game and not think ahead to the possible outcomes? Uh? It varies. I think sometimes it's easy when you're really sort of feeling it. I think sometimes it's really difficult. Um. I think usually when there's that

many people involved. Um, I mean there was even up to probably thirty minutes ago. There's four or five or six guys who could have won that tournament. I think it's a little easier. You just trying to do the best you can, and you're having a lot of fun because there's a lot of noise. It sounded like it would have been a lot of fun. And I was a little envious of how much fun they were having. Um, it's just those great atmospheres as close greens, they're all

the noise, good stuff happening. Um. I really sort of balanced crowd for that. There wasn't just one outright favorite that they were all cheering for. It seems like they were cheered for everyone, which is kind of always fun. I think, Yeah, I would think in that situation it's relatively easy because it's sort of let's just get in and see what happens. If it's just a two horse race, I think it gets really difficult. Um. But yeah, I mean it ended up great and the right guy one.

So it just looked, as I said, I was envious. I just thought it looked great. Fun back there's last five sort of hour looked just an amazing place to be And that's what you played well. That's why professional golfers and professional golfers to get in that situation and sort of have fun with that. And and only one guy can one which is a shame, can win, which is a shame. But I'll bet you they all had a good time. Did you have the feeling when the leaders making the turn that that that five or six

would be so meaningful when the scores were lury? To be honest, I actually thought the setup was really cool. I thought, I mean, he gave him every chance on the last outside of eighteen. I mean, there was every chance to make birdies coming in. It looked like men moved some teas up. Thirteen was reachable, seventeen was reachable. Um, and we saw some We saw a couple early eagles

on seventeen, and good stuff on thirteen. I thought it was sort of hang on until you get to last five or six sols and see if you can get there, see if you can make a few birdies. So I thought, maybe um, seven or eight or even nine. At some point I thought someone would sort of fly home one

of those top three or four. But because Meadow came back and Will didn't sort of make to me Bertie, they just sort of they came back to the field and gave everyone a chance, you know, But that that that's it had the sort of august to feel about it. Didn't that you could have come from behind, or you could sort of you could have sort have stepped it up and gone ahead and sort of buried everyone. So, um, great course, well set up. I thought, I love a

a backbreaking seventy second hole. There's just something so much so about it, and I mean, so much happened there. Zalatoris, who probably has the most scrutinized putting stroke in golf, guts an absolute must make. Um justin hits a great shot but can't make the putt. It looks for a minute like that might cost him the whole thing. Um, and then of course mead who um, you know that was hard to watch. But still that it had to

happen on the last toll, I don't. It's just incredible that it just always comes down to the end and what an incredible stage. So I don't know how well it plays on TV, but that just that Hillside of People is one of the best afters ever seen in golf, and it was it was neat to be out there Jeff, if you ever hit a cold shank in a PGA Tour event, major championship event, is Justin Thomas did today? Um,

I've never had a shank in a major. I did hit a shank it um Council Ponds one year on the tenth fuel stright over the top of the crowd. The people in the right gallery just move their head. They just looked over their head and it disappeared over things. So that was a fairly embarrassing one on the eighth while I was playing quite well. Um, a couple of others, probably three or four shanks in my time. It's inevitably you're gonna hit one. What causes it? You know? And

Justin Thoms Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's a good technical explanation for those who don't know the term shank. Um. But why do you think of a player of Justin Thomas's caliber would suddenly hit a shank in that particular situation. I mean, it happens. I mean some guys, I mean, Web hits a lot of them, and it's it's usually someone who's way inside, like an inside of path and maybe I don't know, I mean, Gulfs are strange game

your body moves the mysterious ways. Sometimes it doesn't always do what you want, and every now and then you hit one. I mean we all hit him. Um. I think if you've got sereal shanks, I think you need to go to a coach and get a pro to sort of sort you out. But I don't think just the sereal shanker. I think this will probably be the only one who hits for a few years. It's just one of those things. I've never really had them. I mean I've hit a few, but I've never really had them,

so I don't really know what happens. But I think it's guys who are way inside on the way down and they just get a little bit too inside and just get a little bit wrong. I mean, it's very close to a good shot. It's less close to a good shot in the old days when I was a kid, when we had the big long hozzles on the irons, all the weight was on the inside, on the on the heel side of the clubs of the sweet spot was very close. I mean you get close to the heel,

you get all that. You see all the Hogan's old clubs of the with the wear mark really really close to the hozzle. Um, it's a little bit more in the middle now, like with perimeter waited, and they've balanced clubs out a little bit and the science is a little bit better in them so that the sweet spot is in the middle of the iron. So it happens less, I think now. But it isn't a is It isn't

an awful shot. I mean missing the ball and missing the club on the other side of missing the ball completely would be a far biggest in you know what I mean. But it's much just as embarrassing there to Shange justin Thomas. You know What's what's so fascinating because he was saying in his comments all week, I don't feel great over the ball, like I don't feel good over the ball. But when I when I let go of that and I just try and play shots and hit shots, then it, uh, it's working. And I guess

it's that field versus real thing. But to me, what makes him such an exciting player is he's a throwback right like he was talking about he used to hit it straight and he played it. He was paired with Tiger, and he asked Tiger when the first time ever paired together he said, what do you see and tigers like you don't curve it enough. He's like, oh, I better start curving it. And now he's gone to like the illogical extremes, like he's curving everything like Bubba and but

that's probably overkill at the Phoenix Open. But you come to place like this, I mean, how big is an advantage is that, Jeff? When when you can really work the ball into the slopes and against the wind, and like, what does that do for a guy like justin to separate himself from other guys or maybe just more monotonous ball strikers. Yeah, I mean a lot. I think firstly, I mean they kind of go together. There was kind

of two pasts that question. Um the amount of people that two guys who have won tournaments where they felt like they couldn't hit it at all on Thursdays more than the other way around. Um, you very often hear a guys say I couldn't even hit on Thursday morning. I was just trying to get out of the way and not be embarrassing. And they win the tournament and JT obviously said he didn't feel very good over the ball. He just sort of just trying to sort of get

his way around there. Um. And that is it gets you into shot and it gets you out of swing. When you really feel perfect and you've been doing all this perfect preparation, you've got all your drills, and you've got your swing feeling that you want to you just seem to focus on swing a little bit, I think sometimes, and you've got everything to look You've already given yourself a good ball striking week, so you've got everything to lose.

Whereas when you start the week and you're not feeling very good over the ball, I think you sort of your expectations go away and you just you just revert back when instinct and just try to find a way to get around there. And I think the way he plays now lets him do that, because that's really what shaping does for you, is it gets your head out of golf swing and it gets your head into golf shot. Um. And we all work better when we when we try to hit shots as opposed to put it's put swings

on it. Um. Evidence by that shot he hit up the last it was just an incredibly cool looking shot in the shot Draiser, I think it's a fictitious for me. I just kind of get frustrated and watched it all time. But the one on the last was really really cool, um and showed everybody that there's more than just sort of taking it up high and trying to launch it really high and low spin and these track fans sort

of things that everyone tries to do. JT is actually out there playing golf, um, like Tiger did, like Hogan did, like and it's just fun to watch. The SHOT's amazing because you know, it elevated, elevated green and down wind and got it to stop take so much skill. I mean, I think people can't even really understand it. You can understand it if you're really close to the game, can nderstand it. But most people just looks like a good shot.

But it's it's so much more than that. Um. Uh. Jim McKay Bones worked for for an elite golfer like Justin Thomas, Phil Nicholson, who would personality type could not be more different. Uh, And yet this relationship, by all the appearances today seems to be working. I'm wondering what you observed between McKay and Justin Thomas. Yeah, just to level and peaceful Bones is out there. Um, it would it looked like they were coming in on Thursday, Um,

just finishing off their round. And I'm very sure of himself. You know, he's not gonna he knows what he's saying. On the last he justin went against it. I think Bones sounded like he wanted to be a driver on the last. I'm sorry he wanted to himIt three would in the last and j T's like, no, no, no no, I want to hit driver, And like Bones didn't sort of put any doubt he said, He's like, right right, hit the shot you want to do and all that. Just what a guy to have on your bag down

the stretch. Um, yeah, great, just level headed, has been there before. You probably wouldn't want anyone else on your bag in that situation. I mean, there's a lot of great caddies there, but I mean how many people have he's outside of Stevie, he's probably one more majors. I think of the guys up there, um, who were still cattying at the moment. So incredible, incredible to guy having the bag in a massive asset, and they look like

they go really well together. Jack gets a bit excitable, I think, and finds look very calm and um, I'm sort of sure of what was going on, and it doesn't get too excited, and just a perfect guy to have on the bag of that car, and in that situation, you know, it was cool. I was right behind the eighteen tea box in the playoff and when when Justin

did hit driver, but he teed it so low. I mean it was like barely off the grass and you just hit that little bullet and and probably just took enough distance off and he run into the creek because it's only about ten steps shode of the water, like it was neat to be out there, and it's like I haven't seen a pro teed up that low in a long time. It was the Kuyd knew what he was talking about when he said maybe at three with Yeah, but Justin had his own idea and Justin's the guy

who's going to hit the shot. Yeah, Yeah, that was that was cool. That was a cool little moment. Yeah, but that's sort of like it's quite smart. Yeah, it's very smart. I mean he would have got that from target targets teeth lower than anybody I've ever seen do it.

And you kind of get rid of the right miss when you tee the ball low for me at least for me, and I think a lot of pros because it makes you sort of you can't get underneath and try to hit it up in the air, and that's when it's when when a lot of guys are losing to the right. So it's sort of guarantees that sort of low fading sort of thing. Um and and sort of to me at least, and it's always seemed to get rid of the right miss so it's pretty clever.

That's cool. I love that. Um, let's talk a little more about Southern Hills because it was a big talking point early in the week, and then then you start focusing on the players and leader board and now we can kind of render a final verdict on Southern Hills. I mean, I thought, of course it was. It was a blast. Was some squawking Terrell Hatton's comments, and a few pros thought almost played too hard. Some of the

part threes were really brutal. But this is what we want, I mean this you should be pushed to the limit. And and like you said, though, Jeff, they did have some opportunities coming in with with with the way the teas were and some of the flags So what's what's the final verdict on Southern the New the Reborn Southern Hills. Yeah, I mean I can't speak to sort of um two, I can't get too into that because I wasn't there and I didn't play the course. Um, But watching from afar,

it looked like cool set up. There was a variety at the path thres did seem really long outside of eleven, and the boys never really love like three ines into every part three. It can kind of get a bit tedious and it seems a bit sort of why would you try to get your lengths on a golf course on path threes? But I mean as far as everyone hits it, now I understand why they do it. Um, the interest. I think the really cool thing was it was the rough wasn't really part of the tournament. It

was more about angles. The bunkers were proper hazards. They weren't really plugging them, and I saw a few plugs, but maybe there was more plugs. I don't know, but it just looked they all sort of struggled out of bunkers, and I think bunkers should be a little bit like that. I think the great bunker players will work it out at the end of the week. And I think as long as you've got a golf course, that the best players have sort of a platform to show why they're

the best. Um. I think it's great for a major, you know, a minutes. I think it's fun to have these sort of birdie fests and normal tour events and just have execution contests and you know, whoever sort of makes the most parts in the sort of is brave enough with iron shots over water and stuff. I think that's great stuff for a normal tour events sometimes for entertainment, but in a major, I think you want to test as many facets of the game as you can, and

I think Southern Hills did from afar like it did that. Um. It seemed like they were a bit sort of some of the complaints for about the slow greens and sort of didn't cut them on Friday from what I understand, But that's just common sense. I think you get to these old venues. There's no reason why we have to play at fourteen on the stepment every week. We said

this farlier in the week. I think, I mean, obviously we all love fourteen and it's great, um, but there's no we will get to the old course here in a month and then they'll be at ten or eleven or nine or something. Um, and you kind of need to I think you've got to have greens. You've gotta have green species that matched the place and the picture of the greens, and so you can use all the fun pim positions and you don't just end up on the flat spots. And um, they seem to do that

really well. And pros don't like green slowing down. But I think that's a challenge and you should ask all the questions in a major, and I think Southern Hills from Afar, as I said, looked like it. It asked all the questions. With some crazy weather and the wind changed in the middle of the week and really tough week,

really tough week weatherwise as well. So all in all, look as said, it was sort of shaping up to be sort of an odd one when no one who didn't I mean most of the guys in leader hadn't even won a tournament. I made to let alone, let alone a major, and then we end up getting j T winning the tournament, tournament and two majors, which is in pretty rare are now. So um, it threw up

a great champion in the end. Do you have an insugn to Will's allotoris his short putting struggles From time to time, he seems his lag putting stroke looks beautiful on the short putting stroke to me, looks different. But what's your view, Jeff, I don't know. Putting is very personal and obviously everyone wants to talk about it. It's scary when they get that camera low. Some of his

takeaw some of his takeaways look different. But I mean, you know what, I don't know what he ended, but he was leading putting most of the week, so he obviously can part um. I think he was um like four or five bombs on Thurs, like twenty plus feet, So he's clearly capable of being a great part of UM.

Nobody gets everything, you know. He got a little bit extra helping when they were handing out talent in the ball striking line, but when he got into the pudding line, he did he was he sort of was at the back of the line a little bit. I mean, nobody gets everything. I mean Tiger kind of had everything there for a while, you know, and Jack sort of got everything. Um. But it's just one of those games. I mean, that's why it's so great. There are multiple ways to win

as tournament. I mean you can do it with ball striking and do it with putting. You can do it a short game, you can do it with your mind. You can do it with all sorts and sort of. Will has got everything, I think except those short puts. Um, it's he seems inevitable. He loves the majors. He clearly puts short puts reasonably well, because it's pretty hard to have top fives and majors without holding a few short parts. Because he left with a lot of them. So it's

not it's not like disaster, but it's certainly I think. Um, And he hold what sev eighteen in regulation, he held two great puts, so he's got the moxie too. Right, Um, we'll see. I mean, he'll work it out, he'll keep working on it. And I don't, as I said, that worm that worms our view of his punning stroke scares me a little bit. I don't really want to watch it. But but he's fine in a way. He's got a funny putter in a weird grip, and he's just going to find a way to do it. He's certainly going

to be around a long time. Anyone who hits it that good is going to be around for a while. Can I ask this one? If you were the czar Golf, would you have a uniform way of playing playoffs in the four major championships? Do you like the different setups? What's your view of playoffs and majors? Um? I mean, I don't mind a bit of variety. I mean, I think the sudden death of the Masters has always sent

him create a pretty compelling situation. I mean there's something about that cutthroat, that sort of cutthroat do it now, you know? I mean, you wouldn't have had the Bubba thing, you wouldn't have had the Larry Meyers thing, you wouldn't mean. There's so many things in that sudden death thing that are great, right, um, But then then the multiple holes. It seems to look after the player who's playing the best overall generally. You know, Tiger and Bob May You know,

j T was probably playing better today, even Will was. Um. So I don't know, and I think it's good. I think variety is good. I mean, like when you go the old course and you go one to eighteen that's always pretty fun to you know. Um And at the end of the day, like it's an entertainment product. And if you get three or four more holes, like there's more entertainment, right, and the fans get a bit more to watch. And um, you just get given the task. You get given the task. At the start of the week,

you've you've you've got to be in front. If you're not in front, you're gonna play three more holes. You sort of know the whole time. I think if they're all better than seventy two, than than eighteen extra holes on Monday, I don't think that's Um, I don't think that's a great solution. So I think any version that gets it done and with sudden death to three holes, two holes, four holes, I think they're all great. I

think I think it's fun to watch every time. Do you have I'm not challenging you, but I don't think you view it as an entertainment product. I think you view it as an athletic achievement to to play in these events and can try to contend and try to win. Is that fair accurate? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, it's an athletic event. Um. And as I said, but it's fun. It's fun to like, I don't know, it's like the right player competing. It

is just fun. Whatever the challenges all you're gonna beat this guy over one hole, you've gotta beat this guy over three holes, be both four holes. I think whatever question they had you on the first day, it's like, okay, I'll do that, and it's fun and it's challenging, and that's the task set for you. I think. I don't think there's a right or wrong. They're all good and yeah, it's not an entertainment product for me, but it certainly is. We play for money, and people put money up because

they like watching us do it, you know. So it's not because we're like we're feeding anybody or building any buildings or you know what I mean. We're actually just entertainers really at the end of the day. So whatever is the most whatever, the most balanced competitive thing than entertains at the same time, that's the win, right right when Alan gives me three your side, it's not an

entertainment product. It's work. It's a death match. And by the way, the three holes in this playoff were absolutely perfect. They were kind of short. Part five drive all Part four and then of super Macho finished like you couldn't you can you can ask for a better sequence. So that was cool too. Um, well, this has been an absolute delight. Let why don't we end with this? Justin Thomas is twenty nine years old. He just won a

second major championship. When when he hangs it up and or reaches the seniors or how many majors will leave won in his career. Give me a number, first thing that jumps in your head. Three would be huge, three more or three total total? It's so hard it is. Three would be great, Jeff. Five, I'm gonna say four. Five is a huge number. Five is monumental. So, um, he's already won fifteen tournaments. I mean he's a winner,

like he wins tournaments. Agreed. Yes, if there's not a lot of and a lot of current players in one fifth day tournaments, you know, like and he's totally devoted to golf. He doesn't seem to have any other distractions. Yeah, all right, Well that's great. We're gonna give one final shout out. Who were gonna who are gonna thank for their corporate support? Michael, I think I think you all know it's part points you know that you guys, you

played with them. I have in great guys. By now, the listeners are hired of hearing about my rounds at Prairie Dunes with the part points guys. They were delightful, but it has been played pod have you? Have you said that the other day? Now? I haven't. That's a shocker. You gotta do some way. You go very often, you know, but don't you work in the Midwestern time to time? It's not that far from a dayna I gu anyway, what time do you get up this morning to watch

about five o'clock? That's I'm getting old. So that's kind of the most normal top now, and that's why I'm in the same boat. It's so sad of you lose ability of sleep it on ear lately. No, we're probably putting the listeners to sleep, so we're gonna them go. But it's been a blast podcasting with you, sir, and with you as well, Jeff. We'll do this again from the the U S Open, which is coming in Hot in three weeks. Yea from Allen and I saw McGinley on the way and that guy knows a lot about golf.

He's fantastic And yeah, I love him, but the unsung hero of golf commentary I think we all know is Ogilvie. Yes, this has been a pleasure. It has a lot of fun, really insightful. So thank you for your time, Jeff, Michael, thanks for all, thank thank you for all your good cheer. First big week at the collective. You brought it. Yeah, what we gotta do is type type of one more story as she's called a night Now. I'm sad, all right,

this is yeah, this has been fun. So signing off from Yeah, signing off from one last fire drill here at Southern Hills, allan ship duck, Michael Bamberger, Jeff Ogilvie, thanks for listening and we'll be back at you in a matter of weeks. From the U s Open. Put another log on the fire. Nobody here is get the time.