Fire Drill 014: Rory, Tiger and Trump, oh my!

we all know that phrase. Possibly two on brand, Like we've got some flops wet going already. I think you're fit sing. Yes, that's a question for you. When was it hot or oh seven for a PGA championship in August or today? Oh it was way hotter in oh seven to today was uncomfortably warm. That was like being in literal hell. It was. I mean, I did think

human beings could could survive temperatures like that. So this day was warm out there and it was a little kind of there's no it wasn't the breeze, the anticipated and there's no cloud cover. I mean, it was a hot day, but it was survivable. It was it was like a hot summer day. How did the course play? How is it different from the from August to May. I mean, this is a big thing, big bet that the PHA made. Let's take an August or to make it a mad tournament, and one of the things they

were looking for was course conditions. How is that different today? Yeah, I mean in August it had to be a little softer to keep them keep it alive and those temperatures, so they just had to put a lot of water on the greens. And I think you know, the p g A is always conscious not to be the U. S g A, and they're always going to air on the side of making the course a little playable and

maybe a little softer. So the green means they put They definitely put some water on the course last night, and the greens were a little soft in the morning, and you saw some some really good scores. Obviously Rory went crazy there for a while. But as the day went on, it pleasingly it began to firm up and there was more bounced on the greens. It was more rollout. Some balls were getting ejected, and so I think that they'll they'll continue to dial up that difficulty and that's

what we want. I mean, this course could be a monster. It's it's not that long and there's a little with out there, so I think it's okay to really put the you want them all the way on the edge, but they can tiptoe in that direction and really make this a firmer, more fiery tests. To the point, was it a big advantage to play early today rather than it helps? For sure? Um today, We'll see what tomorrow brings.

But um, and definitely the and it was not unlike you know sometimes it happens at the Open Championship like that. You go out in the morning and then the ball will hold a little bit, but as the day goes on it just releases. And so we saw that today for sure. Well the opening is crazy that way because to some agree, the winner gets decided about the Thursday, or often can't be decided by the Thursday Friday joke, because these days there so long, you have so many

different weather systems coming through. You don't have that here's here here nearly as much. Yeah, I mean it can be volatile. There's been some wind forecast for the coming days, and I mean if if it's breezy, and it's hot and it's dry. It's gonna be really fun to watch. It seems like one of the joys about a true classic course like this is Southern Hillsberg Mexical course, is that there's so many different ways to play. What'd you

say in that regard today? Well, I mean you saw it really in the Marquee group and Tiger was playing old man golf. I mean he was dinking it off the tea. He finished I think a hundred and thirty six in driving distance. And there's twenty club pros in this in this field, and and some old guys too, like John Daly and whomever. And it was a very conservative game plan and he left himself a lot of club coming into the greens. Maybe the greatest long iron

player of all time, he can handle it. And he did that at Away Lake and some other tests just and he did was fine, but he didn't. He wasn't on his game that today, and clearly his body was bothering him. But the same group, Rory was just swinging with the band and he was hitting driver everywhere, he was cutting dog legs and he was seventy five hundred yards in front of Tiger at times. I mean Rory average three thirty off the tea. He had two drives

that went almost three eighty. And I mean in the it's hot and there's some elevated tease, but he was just in full attack mode and Tiger was playing more defensive, kind of quintessential Major championship golf. But I don't think I don't think Tiger anticipated was gonna be a little soft. They had the eight eleven tea time is nice and early, and Rory he just he felt it early and he

just kept going. What was the intra round conversation like with the players and the caddies today, Yeah, there was. It was you know, Tiger was really struggling. He got off to a nice little start, but it looked a little bit quickly. It started to look like Sunday Augusta, where the limb was getting more pronounced and he was walking very gingerly on the down slopes, and it was just he just you could just tell he was struggling. And I mean he hit some foul balls, like on

on fifteen that was Hazzle adjacent. I mean, it wasn't a cold shank, but it was not that far away. And he he had a couple of other irons off the tea, you know, the balls on a t perfect stance, and he had a way right like he just he couldn't push off on that leg. He couldn't get through the ball. And it was a bummer. You know. I think there's still some magic in Tiger's hands, and he still has that brain and that heart, but there's the

body just want't work. You could see that, and by the end of the round, I mean, it was a it was a substantial limp, and it's just a bummer. I think it's hard to imagine he's ever gonna have four days in a row where he feels great, where even feels good. Maybe he'll get better, but you know, he talked about it's had a months in Sugusta and he's been working hard, he's gotten stronger, but it really

didn't show. So it was a reality check, you know, I think because as Jeff Ogilvy was talking about so beautifully a few days ago with us, you know, this is the kind of test that that peak Tiger would have loved, where you have to really shape the ball coming into the greens, and you have to be easy imagination and play those real high talent shots, but his

body just let him do it. Today, I don't think this is really quote an important tournament for a Tiger in the sense that there really are no important tournaments left for him. He has climbed the mountaintop. He has said he's climbing the mountaintop. He said he's not really ready to do what he did once to get where

he was for the nineteen Masters. But with that preamble, it will be very interesting to see what he does tomorrow because a trademark of Tiger and we sow it after he made that twelve that augusta, um, what was that? Just you know? And then came back when on that what do he played the last six sols? And I think not mistaken. It will be very interesting to see what he does tomorrow because part of what he part of what he's done all his life, has got it out.

And I think part of the example he's trying to show his son in the world and himself. But I think maybe particularly his son, is that there is no quit in him and he has every reason too if he wants to. I don't think he will, but what do you expect we'll do do you find that, Yeah, he's planning to make the cut, but so so more than that, isn't it. Yeah, at this point, it's more about persistence than performance. It's just showing up and it's just going to work. And that's that's part of who

Tiger has been. But we were it was obscured by how dazzling his golf was, and now you take away some of that that that that beauty in his game and it's more about just the grit and the grind. And I guess the issue is maybe he can't make it worse. It's just metal on metal and he's it's okay, But I do worry, like you know, when I've sprained an ankle and then you're limping and then the other ankle gets hurt because you're putting so much weight on it, Like,

can he do any damage? I guess the assessment is not, really, it's just metal on metal and he's gonna be fine. But I know in my own life, and I've been dinged up on a knee or an ankle and then I'm kind of limping around the other near ankle starts hurting, and um, you know, Tiger is a big there's a lot of weight on his joints as part of how we got here in the first place. And so I

guess he's not worried about that. But you would think that the Old Course is where he's most dangerous in this whole run of majors, because not only has he won there and and it's that kind of ballpark, but it's the easiest walk by far, and brook Line is a tough walk too. So you know, I just hope he doesn't push himself so hard out of his sheer stubbornness that he developed some other issue and his his very fragile body. It's hard to mention that he wouldn't

for all the reasons you said. If if it's not one thing, it's another, and the body has a weird way of overcome sitting and then it's just like your golf game. You know, work so hard and you're putting and then you're chipping goes, something's gonna go. This sounds self referential. And what about Rory uh free a free swing? Rory McElroy is a joy to watch. You've got a lot of dog leg holes here. He can look at those holes in ways the ordinary person cannot. What was

that like to watch today. Yeah, it was neat. I would submit that when Rory McElroy is just letting the club go and he's having fun, He's got that bouncy little strut. No one makes a game not only look easier, but like more fun. It's just like there's an off factor watching the lines he takes that are so hyper aggressive, and it's just that it's there's a shot we all dream of, that high draw that just stays in the

air forever. And he was having a great time, and we all know Roy respects Tiger, and Roy's in the peak of his life. Physically, Tiger's broken down. It's not a fair fight. But you know, Rory loved playing well in front of Tiger, and because it's gone the other way plenty of times, and so there was a little something extra there where I think Rory, it's not there has anything to prove. Tiger knows he's a great player.

But when when Roy's played his best golf, Tiger hasn't really been in the mix, like he's never really beat him at these majors when it mattered. Yes, do you know that when Rory mcil when when Tiger won the Masters in two thousand nineteen, and it was his what fifteen major championship. It was the first major when Tiger one that Rory had even attended. I mean, that's how really they don't that's how much they don't overlap. I

found that. That's interesting. Yeah, And that's funny because in two thousand nineteen, as as that round was unfolding and it was clear like Tiger was going to be there until the bitter end, I just camped out in the Augusta National locker room because I wanted to tell the story through the eyes of all the other players, and guys were coming and going, this is unbelievable and what did I missed? And like fill me in? And they were. They were into it, and you know, Rory, we all

know it's very accommodating, gracious guy. When Up was like Rory, what do you about this, He's like, I don't want to talk about He like stomped off. It was almost like like he's like, God, damn it, like this should be my time. And now now Tiger's back and getting all his love and I still can't win the Masters.

I can't win a major like it was. It revealed something in that moment to me, and that's why I think he brought a little extra to this pairing AND's theed that you saw that extra bounce in his step, because golf will beat you down, and it has sort of beaten him down. Even though he's one picked off tournaments here and there, it's not the same as contending

late on Sundays at majors and winning occasionally. Now it's been years for Rory McIlroy, so if we just see that, it says something very positive about his his inner life really especially gives just you know, that breakdown when we saw at the Ryder Cup just last year. I know, I mean since his last major, I think Rory's won eleven tour events, including a Players Champions He's won a FedEx Cup, He's won the Race to Dubai twice. Like he's done. He's had an incredible career in those eight years.

But we know the majors are the are the measuring stick, and it's really been such a mystery, or maybe it's not. It's just been like it's trying too hard, He's getting his own way. There's an element of stage fright when you look at his Thursday numbers versus Friday through Saturday and he kind of blows himself out and then he just he freewheels it. But he's now the last two rounds in the Majors at Augusta National and at Southern Hills has taking a hundred twenty nine strokes. I think

that's incredible golf. But you know, it's interesting when you say, you know, parroed with Tiger and Tigers thinking about the tea and you know, and Rory and full but Tiger was always sort of moving towards Sunday through these majors, and it was exciting to see. And he got more aggressive as he got more confident about where he was on the leaderboard, and he never spent it on Thursday. So I mean, he had some really good Thursday in

majors and he won. You know, he won some of his majors by by being the Thursday leader, but more often he was sort of getting himself in gear. I think that's right, although of course he did shoot sixty three at Southern Hills and oh seven, that's probably the great round he ever played in the Majors. And as Jeff Ogilvy was saying, and as Steve Williams has said that maybe Tiger and full even though two thousand morning by fifteen and blah blah blah, but that was seven

Perry was external but finished that thought. Sorry, yeah, yeah, no, it would be no. I like when you interrupt me, Michael, You're always so deferential and these things like you need to interrupt. The more people want to hear you more than anybody else. I want you to you know, feel that. But um no, just the similar Hawkins to Night. We haven't heard squad from him. Hawk man, you got anything

where you at? Where you at? I know, I know it's just the two of us as so intimate, but um yeah, the symmetry if Rory could win this one, you know, Tiger is essentially the defending champ at Southern Hills, and it would be pretty cool because Rory Mockael Roy could retire tomorrow. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer. And not only that, he's been a great ambassador. And

Rory has become the conscience of the sport. And we saw it most evidently, and and how he refuses to even entertain the idea of taking the blood money from Saudi Arabia, and if that whole thing goes away, his very strong advocacy in the very beginning for the PGA Tour, and his loyalty to the tour is going to be an important factor. So he's he's elevated himself in so many ways, and he's so gracious, he's so well spoken, Like I've never met anyone in the world who doesn't

like Roy McElroy. You know, I think you know, in many ways, he represents the immigrant spirit in the United States, which is he's a first generation American. Uh, he moved here, and uh, of course he's extremely wealthy and he's extremely American. He's got the big cars and all the rest. But there is still among first generation Americans often a sense of gratitude. Look what this country has given me. Look with this PGA tour has given me in Rory's case,

and uh, you don't see that universally. That's well said, and it's it's one of my favorite things in the whole golf world is that Rory's dad, who's this very blue collar bartender, is now a member at Seminole, you know, one of these citadels of American private golf. And it's

because he's just a fun dude to year round. He's a keen golfer, and it's almost like it's the it's the immigrant story in reverse where the child has a success and he shares it with the the parents and he Now Jerry's hanging on at seven all with all these captains of industry, Like how cool is that? You know? Do you think Tiger has any of that first generation American attitude with his mother being born in Thailand? Yeah,

that's interesting. I mean to me, he's kind of the quintessential Orange County kid, you know, he's I mean, Tiger could have had any band in the world play his wedding, and he choose. He chose Hooting the Blowfish. It does not get any more white bread than that. Like I would have brought in Bob Dylan, you know, I don't know what I would It would have been hooting in the Blowfish. I mean, I would have brought in like hip hop supergroup whatever it is, and like that. That

to me, so I don't know. I think he doesn't get any more blandly Americana than that. So um, I don't know. Gratitude and in concepts and it's it's in northern California. It's a huge where I live. It's a huge buzzword. You know, it's all about gratitude. I don't know if it's appropriate. Yeah, I don't know where that's really more important for Rory. I I fully agree. I don't. I don't know if I feel that with Tiger. I mean, he wears his fame and his wealth as such a

burden that it doesn't exude gratitude. He does, he does, And yet since two thousands seventeen or what you're did he have the roadside rust two thousand and seventeen. Uh, he's used the word a lot in his in his interviews, and uh, you know, it's such a cliche, but it is. It is a path towards, you know, figuring out who you are in this world. But it's it's interesting to see those two of them together because I think they're both I think they're both serious, intelligent people, and I

could I could see them, haven't. You know? Tiger seems have a nice friendship with Justin Thomas, but it's it's always with the needle out. Rory isn't. He's not built for that, and I'm sure Tiger knows that he's not. And uh, I could see those two actually being having a meaningful friendship. Really Yeah, that's interesting, I know, yeah, yeah, justin Thomas seems like a little more shallow personality compared

to Rory. And also the third guy in that group, George Speith, who didn't you know he was he was plus two. He didn't really have it today. But that's another quality human being who has some depth and some soul and so it you know, maybe on the concept

of grat you, maybe that's why Tiger is here. This is his way of saying thank you to the fans, like he you know, he he stayed on script in the pre tournament press, Carment said, yeah, I'm here to win, you know I It's like, well, realistically it's probably not gonna happen, but if you can just give four rounds and people can come out and cheer for him, and obviously Tiger gets to feel that love too. It's it's it's symbiotic. But maybe this is a low key way

of showing that gratitude. Like, you guys have given me so much through the years. All I can pay you back is my effort in my presence, and you know, there's not big time golf in this part of the world that often. You know, this is unless you will get an airplane. This might be the last time these fans ever see Tiger Woods play golf. And so to your to your earlier point, he's gonna try and play four rounds, like even if it if it means potentially,

you know, grinding his gears a little bit. I think that he wants to give something to the fans, and that's kind of a cool turn about where I think Tiger most of his career he felt like all I all I can do is give my golf. That's all I owe you. I'm gonna go out there and play my best golf, and I don't have to look you in the eye. I don't have to acknowledge it years, I don't have to sign any autographs. Like my performances

enough and in a lot of ways it was. It was so transcendent and we were lucky to see that. But now there's he's warm member the fans. He's there's more of a connection, and it does feel like he needs them a little bit more. You know, he's such a he's such a golf neer, and he knows what he's done where he's done it. I wonder what it's

like for him. You know, when you think about what does Steve Williams and Jeff Vogilvy and others have said about, you know, Tiger in that oh, seven oh six period, I wonder what it's actually like for him to walk this golf course. He knows where he is right now, but do you think his mind wanders to to where he was the last time he was here. He seems

like such an unsentimental person. It's hard to know. Yeah, sure, And I mean I remember that one of his children had just been born and there was this scene on. I mean, it must have been Sam. It must have been Sam, because well Oakmont. She was born right after Huncle Brera won the US Open at Oakmont, so that's a little later. Yeah, right, Remember he went home and she she was born a few days after that. Maybe

I'm misremembering. I have to look this up. I just remember at the trophy ceremony, he was he was kind of choked up because it was in a family way. And let's see that the dad had died and it was fifty it was fifteen. It's fifteen years ago that that he won here. And yeah, one of his kids was it, Charlie held Charlie Maybe Charlie was Charlie, okay, we figured that out, or maybe there was something involving

the family. I'm possible. And because at the trophy ceremony Tiger talked about coming off and the and seeing seeing the family that he actually got chills even those add ten degrees and it was a very sentimental moment for him, and of course Ellen was there and all of it. And um, this unpositive is that your wingfoot Hoylake here? Is that the no? That was six? Yeah? Wow? I don't can't think because the dad of course died in six Yeah. Yeah, know, there was a very sweet family

moment in the trophy present takes. But to your point, like Tiger has been through a hell of a lot since then, it must have been Sam And then maybe Charlie, we should we should know this. Bakudos were not going to rub Google immediately and getting the answer, just trying to piece it out. You're probably right that that sounds right that Sam would have been born then. I'm sure the listeners have enjoyed us struggling here for five minutes.

But the point is there was you know, there's these certain ghosts right where you go back to these venues and how much his body's changed, his life is changed, and his golf game has changed. And you know, you think about the old course where he'll go this summer, like two thousand, that was an incredible performance. He wins there again. When Tiger goes there in you know, two

thousand and ten, the scandals still sort of smoldering. He goes there in two thousand and fifteen, his body's breaking down. He takes that horrendous gouge off the t on number one that people were looking at like was a like was a burnt out car after an accident. And um, and now there's certain there's certain markers when you go back to these things. So it would be curious to know his inner life as he walks these fairways and

how much things have changed for him. You know, uh, I'm sure you're right on the math because at the at the Hall of Fame induction, she seemed to be about fourtune turning fifteen, so that that would I would check out without even getting on the internet. She was a spectacular at the at the Hall of Fame induction. Oh yeah, and now it's she's a bright young woman. Yeah, great presence. I mean it's and I must be neat for I'm starting your up. Go ahead, No, No, you

could continue as well. I was just gonna say it must be neat for Tiger any Lynn. Uh. And we don't know the kids, and we're not pretending that we do, but uh, but they are public kids, and it's not easy to be the child of Tiger Woods and uh, you know, to the green they make public appearances. I mean, they're still just kids. But when they do make public appearances, like like at the Rose Garden ceremony, in the father

son event, just um to see poised, intelligent, respectful uh kids. Uh. And and Sam especially because she's really been sort of under wraps to Ali, he's been out a little bit because he's so like Tiger and so interested in sports and other things. She seems like a shy girl. But um, you know, it's just a little window into completely different side of Tiger's life. Just it just comes brings to mind.

You know. Once I was interviewing Mark Steinberg by phone, and I could tell that he was at a as he was one of these interminable summer country club swim meets and I've been there and they go on forever. And he said you're at a swimming arch, he said, yeah, like they will never end. But you know what, it's also like the greatest moments of your life too, you're watching your kids grow up. Yeah, yeah, no, it's true.

And I think I think Sam is part of and I think especially Charlie is what keeps Tiger going because that idea that, I mean, how many years are we away from from Charlie getting his first sponsors exemption on the PGA Tour three four or five tops? I don't know. He's got to get a lot better. He's gotta get bigger and stronger. But I mean, like Lebron James has said, you know, whoever drafts his son Brawnie, he's gonna go play for them. And there's there's funny. He's dead serious.

You know, he's gonna try and last another three or four years to get there. And I could see that factoring into Tigers like thinking and what was Jordan's comfort

level like today? From what you could see, he just he was just doing his rehearsals and it just looked like he was in his head, you know, and he a couple of times he was in the fairway and he flushed his shot like twenty yards over the green, like you don't see, you don't see prose missed that much, and especially in relatively benign conditions if the wind's blowing, you do or do not get a gust maybe, But and he looked totally befuddled. So I don't know what's

going on with Jordan. I mean, he's playing with two superstars like that, Uh Tiger Rory. Do you think he can do his whole Growler Groller excuse me, Growler was a caddy from yester year. Do you think you do his whole Michael Griller thing to the same level? Do you think he do you think he feels a little self conscious, because I would be a little self conscious. Yeah, for I mean, you don't want any side I from from Tiger hit the ball, dude, it's not that complicated,

I know, it's I don't know. I mean, I mean we haven't even really. I mean, here's Jordans trying trying to win, you know, the last piece of the Grand Slam, like he's uh the p g A. But this and this one particularly, this just seem like a good fit for him. I know. Yeah, the texts and pitched like a madman. Uh, he's not. He didn't blow himself out of it. I mean, if they let this course get firmer and faster and scarier, I mean, five under could win this thing. He's now he's gotta play perfect golf

from here on. But he's you know, he's plus two. He's not totally out of it. But it was disappointed considering how well he played last week and you know, him winning X number of weeks ago, like it seemed like he was really ascended. So it's a setback. But yeah, it's tough. I mean, Jordan and Rory, you know, they've always had a little dance, even though Rory's older by a few years, but they you know, they're they're probably I guess kept because he came up so fast and

kind of change that. But for a while looked like Jordan Roy were going to own the sport for a good long time. And um, between the two of them, who do you think has a better chance of winning the career Grand Slam? And there is a correct answer to this question, Jordan, because it's easier to win a PJ than the Masters, is I would think, so, yeah, you know, the small fields of the Masters would tell

you otherwise. But in this particular case, for Rory twin Masters versus Jordan to win a pH championship, I would say, yeah, I think it'll be tough, very very tough for either of them to do it. But of the two, I would say Jordan's probably. Yeah. It's interesting though, because different PG venues are they can They're so wildly different from year to year, So it's a different challenge for Jordan's whereas Rory knows what he has to do. It's just

the mandate is clear um at Augusta. But also there's all those ghosts that now live within him from all the squandered chances and all the setbacks. So that's a good question. Actually, do you think, uh, do you think that that's standing cliche about Rory is that you know he's gonna win when the course is long and wet. Do you think that is really a true thing? Because if if so, then that it wouldn't bode very well for for this week and it's gonna get cool or

on the weekend. But it's good, of course, is gonna get fast. It's not gonna get long and wet, that's for sure. Yeah, I mean I think those are advantageous conditions, no question for Rory. But like he hit a couple of sawed off wedges today that were beautiful, Like it was really you know, the power off the tea and then the finesse with the short irons was was That's such a deadly combination. That's what Dustin did during that

great like five year run which appears to have. Yeah, but you know Roy's always kind of struggled with with that and putting too much spit on the ball and hoisting it too high and just these a little controlled half swing wedges. If he gets that dialed in and he's feeling that touch and then um, you know, I think he can win anywhere, any time. And so uh there's such a psychological hurdle. You know, his his scoring average on Thursdays the Major so abysmal, and he just

shattered that. So now the question is can he keep going, Can he maintain that aggressiveness and keep the pedal down or do you getting that that mode of trying to protect And he talked about that after his round. He said, when you off to such a hot start, it just it is tempting to kind of change a game plan and just try and hold on. But he said, I was proud of myself because I stuck to the game plan.

I kept hitting driver, I kept cutting dog legs, And so he was a little mental test that he passed. And I think that's sad. That really is big. You catch any of Shuffler today, Uh No, I didn't get to see him live. I saw him on TV a little bit, I mean, missing like a two and a half foot put that they showed. But um, he's the law of averages suggests he just can't keep winning these things, I mean, and that's he is going to be. You know, he's going to going to go on a monster run.

But um, he's super impressive and he's not out of it. But um, you know he didn't. He didn't play his best today. He does seem like someone who could sneakily, sneakly get in there and my Sunday an afternoon be there, you know for this N nine, this nine wonder for this sign nixt thing you know right there? Yeah, he what I like, I mean, ever, seems to panic, which

is an underrated thing in major championships. Like that's what's affected Roy, Like there was an element of panic on those Thursdays he make a few bogies, and then you'd like try and start stuffing shots to get him back, and then he'd make more bogies and then we would just slip away. But Scheffler just seems so at ease.

It's really impressed. Secret to his success would seemingly have been the secret to lose house Tuivesen's success, which is doesn't really care that much, I know, even though he cried like a baby Sunday morning. And I guess we all heard the charming story. Cute story more than cute. Really, actually, I don't mean it to me in any way. It's a meaning story, meaningful story. But let me word another way. Golf is not the highest thing. This party list just isn't.

And that's a great way to go into major championship golf, unless, as Jeff Ogilvy and others have told us, uh, those external factors are getting so deep in your head that even though you don't want golf important, it becomes that important, and that it's hard to do if you've been playing the kind of golf he's from plane, I know, but it's Marco might be finding the same thing. Yeah, that's true. I know, it's that's gotta be the biggest challenge for

all these guys. It's just golf. And yes, the crowds are triple, and the energy is huge, and the press tense, gigantic, and is this ridiculously big trophy sitting there on the first tea And ultimately none of that matters. You just have to hit golf shots. And but to get in that that frame of mind, like you know, it's hard. Everyone says it's hard, So uh yeah, I think it's better to care a little too uh, not as much as trying first is trying too hard, because seems like

a lot of these guys are trying too hard. And Scheffer's like, yeah, whatever, you know, what's the uh the the carring year thing been like for you for this week? In other words, um and Ogilvy was talking about this the other day. There's so much preamble before the major goes on and on and on, and we are this year this week. In our careers, we haven't been, but but this week we have. Um, what's it like for

you to be here? You got here early and now finally you're here and they're playing some live golf and you're seeing some live golf and it matters hallelujah. Like, yeah, I've never enjoyed the Monday, Tuesday Wednesdays because you have to manufacture stories and it's like, eventually there will be a story. Let it come to you. So it's great and you couldn't ask for anything more. I mean, you had this supergroup. Rarely do you do you send out that kind of group and one of them turns out

to be the leader. Like that's just very fortuitous. And so that was that was too easy as a Thursday story. But um alright, we we gotta we we didn't even we didn't even tip our cap to this at the top of the show. But speaking of stories, like, let's just let's just talk about what you dropped on fire Pick collective dot com today, um as as most of you should know by now, but maybe don't, Michael, is a reason who you're looking at. I was looking at

the camera. That was interesting. Okay, there's a camera here that's weird. Don't that weird you out? And most people are just gonna listen to this, Michael, But most most folks who are going on this journey with us know that that your recent addition to the collective, which you know, I was like signing Babe Ruth in his prime. But UM dropped the story your first big one whatever week ago. That got into all the Trump and Saudi and Phil and Jack and Gregg and a lot of star power.

In that story. You want to hear a shocker. That was Monday, That was this week. That's what I thought I would seem like forever ago. I was like, oh my god, it was money. It was just four days ago, three and a half days ago. And so now yesterday you're driving, You're on your way to Tulsa and your phone rings, and what happened? The phone rings and it says no caller ID. I've been trying to reach Trump,

uh for the story that ran on Monday. The story that ran on Monday is about how how the PA Championship was supposed to be held of Trump Beadminster, selected by the PHA of American two thousand and fourteen to go there, and then after the January six riots, the p j CEO South Walk conjunction with the board moved it and they didn't know where they're going to move, and they finally decided to move it here. So for that story, I've been trying to reach UH President Trump

and UH. And I heard from his people that he might call you, but you know, he's got other things going on, especially with the primaries going on. I didn't hear from him. I wasn't really expect him to. UH. And then I do pick up the phone when it says no caller, I d because sometimes your friends or your family members will put it on that notch. I would of course have no idea how to do it myself, but I I just literally had had had had filled up of the car at a Philip sixty six on

Root sixty six and uh, and the phone rang. And I think the man's first words were, but I'm not sure about this good it's your friend Donald Trump. And Uh. I think that's what he said. And he's being funny. But Trump and I have spent a lot of time together. We've played a lot of golf together, and and I have spent hours and hours interviewing him long before he uh sought the nomination for the presidency. Uh. But he

is a very enjoyable person. This part of what I'm saying here is not political in any way, and I really mean it. I'm just separating Donald Trump. It's golf life from the rest of his life. He's knowledgeable golf, he loves golf, He owns a bunch of golf courses, he knows a bunch of golfers. And if you're not going to enjoy talking golf with Donald Trump, there's actually something wrong with you. Unless you're so clouded by everything else you can't let that happen. And believe me, I

do understand that. But you know, our responsibility is just to get the news. And uh, and I'm not saying anything here about my own person politics, but away, So I did talk to uh, Donald Trump for about forty five minutes, and it was exactly what he was like, you know in two thousand, two thousand five, two two thousand fifteen, when I talked to him quite regularly, which is to say, he's a very easy person to have

a golf conversation with. And if we know, at one point he was talking about Tom Watson and the suggestions that Watson what was making to the Turnbury course, or Trump would say, you know, but fabulous Trump Turnber of course, you know, because he's always got to be so referential and in personal but anyway, but at one point he said, uh, uh, I he said you know what a great links player is And I said, and I was looking for her name, and the name that came out of my mouth was

Bob Charles, you know, the great New Zealand golfer wonder British Open, three Senior Open championships. And Trump said, uh, pub Rolls And I said, oh no, no, excuse me, I mean Peter Thompson. But in other words, who's going to catch something like that? You know? So he's like, yeah, he's knowledge able. My friend, our friend, Jimie Diaz makes this point from time to time. It's so hilarious and it's so insightful, and it comes from Trump, but Heimie

is the one who picked up on him. Trump says, a difference between match play and stroke play is the difference between the electoral college and the popular vote. And if you get that, and Trump obviously gets that, it shows you actually really understood understand something about match play

versus stroke play. Electoral college versus the popular vote was the most insightful thing he said about the in two thousand and sixteen election by far, because I heard him say that and it was like, it makes perfect sense, it's amazing. So and Trump was great when that kid came to mow the White House along if you remember that, he was great. He likes grass, he likes he said some years ago, So Michael, for yours, I never understood gardening.

People took me about gardon, what's gardening, but then sorted by golf, Trump golf courses, and then Trump started to understand gardening, the appeal of gardening. Yeah. Well but his thing now just that I'm started. But just just because people, you may not want to read another what four thousand words in Donald Trump? So here it is a nutshell. He's down in the PGA, down in the PGA of America for moving his tournament. He's down in the U

SJ because they haven't gone to the US Open. He's down on the R and A because they haven't shown any signs of having a British Open. Trump Turnberry or or as we like to call it, Turnberry. Uh, but he's up on Alan. Can you fill in the blank? Uh? Live golf, Live golf, dinks, live golf. They've got eight events this year, as many of our listeners will know, two of them. Two of those tournaments are going to

be at at Trump courses. Is it's amazing. I mean strange bedfellows and uh and he but there's a piece of news room meeting like that that he told you he's not gonna watch this PG Championship because you know this should have been in his course, and he's actually boycotting the p G A maybe what were that with one slight change he says he's not watching it. The chances of Trump not watching this tournament or zero in my opinion. Yeah, he played the other day with Scottie

Shuffler and he says, I understand show very well. You know, they told me he'll watch. Yeah. I mean in those moments when you're you're talking about golf, like, do you forget that he was an exceptionally polarizing president and does it just take you back too when you could just talk golf innocently with him? Yes, yes, I I did find myself doing that. I found myself very much enjoying

talking golf with Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Well, and like you said, like, there's there's an important news in this story. You know, his embrace of the Sudies is a big thing, and it's helped legitimize the whole, uh, the whole circuit. And I'm I'm sure that that's a bit of propaganda they love to use back there, like, hey,

it's working. We're on these Trump courses and there there's a box office there and um, so you know that's a really interesting view because of course, what he's also doing by endorsing live golf, he's dissing the PGA Tour. He used to have a Pug Tour event, of course, at at Trump Dray and he doesn't now. And no matter what you want to say about the man, he does represent a very solisible portion of the average show golf fan who watches golf on TV. And um, that

group be sweede. Uh you know, Jay monahans trying to sway him, and uh understandably so, but put Trump will too. You know, I had a housekeeper at Trump National, and uh, he calls the Trump I think he calls the Trump National Philadelphia, but it's actually it's down the road from from Pine Valley. But I was interviewing a housekeeper who worked there, or she maybe she worked in the kitchen. And forgive me for not remembering right now, but you know she said in Spanish, no, he's crazy like a fox,

and uh, it's about right. He knows what he's doing, and he's signing up with Live Golf here. Uh, and you know one of the things he said in the stories is just you know, the super rich, you know, don't want to lose a hundred million year after hear the Saudias don't care. They don't care. There in for the long haul here, Yeah, they're playing the long game. I mean, this is wild. Are our golf loving Republicans

gonna become pro Russia and pro Saudi Arabia? Like can you imagine like they did Supply fifteen with the nine eleven hijackers or like, but you know, you hear certain politicians talk about the the pro Putin wing of the Republican Party like because of Trump are folks and become pro Saudi Arabia. It's a wild turn of events. Yeah, it really is. It's it's depressing when you're work it that way that you know, NI golf should be falling

down this rabbit hole. It's actually it's depressing. Yeah, it's it's just another wild twist and turn in this whole story. And there is a Phil Nicholson villa at Trump Darral and now they're both bedfellows with the saudiast I mean, could Trump is very effectively turned as a relationship with Jack Nicholas around uh Trump years ago, Trump told me the story Trump's first golf course. I believe this is correct. If it's not his first, it was one of his first.

But I think his first golf course is the Trump West Pond Beach Course. And at the time that he built it, uh a long time ago now I'm probably getting on thirty years. I would think uh, Um, Nicholas owned a construction and golf course construction company. I believe it was called Octagon. I'm not sorting to have that correct either, but anyway, he did definitely owned a company, and uh and Trump put up bids for the job.

Nicholas got the job, and then I can remember to this day Trump making Trump making this motion with his hand. He said, Nicholas came in with these little Tonku trucks, you know, mocking the fact that Trump had that Nicholas had not bid the project properly and wasn't really ready in Trump's to do the project. Anyway, it didn't go well. There was there were problems all the way around. Eventually they got worked out, but in that period, I know,

it's really from Trump's perspective, he was very dismissive of Nicholas. Uh. In the years since then they become very close friends. Uh and uh Trump has hired Nicholas to build uh, definitely the Ferris Point Corps soon. I think he's probably done other work for for Trump, although I can't think of what that would be immediately. And Uh and Nicholas's uh just being with Trump on numerous occasions, and uh of course endorsed him and endorsed him. It was a

polarizing moment for Jack Nicholas. You know, nobody made him do that, like he he just he just decided to do it. And I mean Mike Pence's staff wrote the statement, right, and it's uh, it's um. I will say this to Nicholas, he has the courage of his convictions. Uh, you know he he seems to be a real believer. I mean I wouldn't say seems, I say he is. He is. Yeah, And of course all roads lead through Saudi Arabia, so

Nicholas has gotten mixed up in this. They offered him the job that Greg Norman now has and that was another bit of news in your first story, and that that that that Jack turned it down. And um, although even that in dispute because this this lawsuit has been filed by our old friend Howard Milstein against against Jack Nicholas, and part of that contention is that they sort of made him turn it down to protect the brand and his image. And it's like, this story has so many layers.

It's fascinating, yeah, you know, and it's it's these stories are all rooted in one thing, which I mean, it's easier for us to say as middle class writers, but there really are rooted in greed. You know, everybody wants more and more and more. Whatever they have, it's not enough. And uh, those stories never end. Well. I agree with that. I had this radio guy say to me, hey, if someone offered me a hundred million dollars, I would take

the matter. What I said, well, sure, you know, you're just a humble radio guy, like I'm a humble reporter, and a hundred million dollars IS's fantastical money. But if you've if you're Jack Nicholas and you're an icon and you've been you've been making huge money for sixty years, it should have less allure. I mean, if you've done if you've done it, right, and you're eight two years old.

You should be worried about money at this point. So the chance of that a hundred million dollars improving Jack Nicholas's life or his children's life, I would say his zero, no chance. Yeah, exactly make a life worse. Yeah, because of all the blowback, like who needs it? You know? Amazing? Well, what cheerful thing can we conclude on here, Alan? Or is that not our obligation? It's our obligation. It would be nice. I mean, well, how about the unusual genery

had tonight? Unusual in what regard? Well, I never know what nationality was being music, it's this is a regular thing. A man of your sophistication has never had a bond me sandwich, I have possibly having a call from Riley in the middle of dinner. Yeah, yeah, that was our friend Rick Riley just calling to like check in and say out of boys like that was that was cute. Well, okay, let's just let's end it like this. What what is our dream winner at this point? Now we've we've got

some data. There's there's some long shots on the leaderboard. There's a Matt Coucher. Justin Thomas made a nice run you've got. It's so obvious. It's Roy Smullinari. I respect your dedication to the bit. You've you've been in a Maulinari stand for for years. The ultimate dedication to the bit was definitely John Garrity, Robert Carlson, Robert. If any listeners that we're talking about, then you you get a

goal prize. Yet we'll take the Vietnamese restaurant of your choice wherever it may be, because no one will know, no one will get the rest. There's some sickos out there. Michael, and we love you. Thank you for listening. Uh. I think we're gonna conclude this Fire Drill podcast. As always we have to think part points golf our favorite golf app which, as you know, God and the guys are great. Met the guys last night. Yeah, the guy and the other guy, Kevin Quinley and Brandon. One of them was

very good, or maybe both are. They're both good. Kevin Scratch. They took me to Prairie Dunes, which is wow. Was that where you you played Prairie Yeah, thirty six in a day. It was yea and it was cold. Those guys get on Prairie Dunes. Their members are you kidding me? I think they were great. They're wonderful human beings and we love the par points app you've heard us talk about. It's a cool new way to think about golf. Now they live there, Why do you? How did they just

nice Kansas boys who have done well fare Wow? I know, but they get around there with the US Open. I never played. I heard you rave about it the other day. It will blow your It's like Royal Dornick. It just set down in the plains. It is absolutely spectacular. I mean, well, Perry Maxwell, right, Yeah, we'll do a little Perry Maxwell swing not we can come back and play this place, which obviously looks like a hell of a lot of fun old do p D. Maybe we'll go to sand

Hills would be nice. Never been there? Have you played the never been? Have you played the Crystal Downs? Course, of course I have, Michael, How good is it? Crystal Town is unbelievable Crystal Downy Maxwell had a hand in that too, So I did not know that. But that's terrific. Yeah, it's like I think it's a little Alsair kind of drew it up, but I believe Perry oversaw the construction, so do you still have that lovely phrase on your your Twitter page. Halfway between You Tampa. That is one

of the best sentences ever. I think that was the last round of golf. I play as a pasta. It's so good, it's so pure. And you know they're gonna actually redo the greens and and take them back to how they were, because the greens are wonderful, but there's a few that there's almost no place you can put a pin. They've they've gotten so extreme over time. And you know, there's a scrappy upstart media company called the Firepit Collective that's gonna chronicle this whole evolution of these greens,

like we're gonna be there, very very cool. Super who's gonna write that up? Probably me? I mean I live in five minutes away. How do you feel about the use of the word pinnable pinnable? It's kind of golf snobby, which makes me like it. You know, I'm not a golf snob, but I want to pretend to be. I can tell you have some disdain. I think it's bad. How do you feel about Mr Hogan? Oh bar, what did Mr hogans? You're here in fifty eight anyhow? Not check that out. I don't know, I don't know. We'll

see what Ben Hogan shot. Yeah, do you know who finished second here in fifty eight? I believe in his first US Open, Gary player. That's impressive. Who could a Gary player? Probably was very tall, and then tells the hot mom, those were the hot Yeah. The whole Mr. Thing. It's like he's dead. Yeah, he doesn't care what you call him. And even like would would would Mr Palmer wanted to be called Mr Palmer the way he was Arnie.

And when Curtis won the second time, he said, move over Ben, And that was what made the coke cool cool when Curtis won, Uh, what do you do? One eight and at the country club? And eight nine? That kills a good golf course. I know this is a good golf course. There's some damn good golf courses in this country. Play them all. You gotta try harder. You haven't haven't played p D. I mean, I thought we were ending this podcast. Save some material. It's only Thursday.

Pace yourself. We gotta run through the tape, all right, Well, thanks for indulging. Michael and I were a little punch drunk in case you couldn't tell, and um, it's late here, but as always, it was a pleasure. We'll do this again, I think tomorrow on Friday, for on the second round. We're gonna try and get Jeff Oogill be back, which was always a razure. Alan, you have a stray sock that I have placed at the top of the dryer. Okay, I was looking for that sock. Yeah, it's there. This

is the intimacy we bring to major championship. We we're doing laundry together, I mean together dining, that's the real thing. We're gonna be so tired of each other by Sunday, but hopefully you the listener will not be so thank you for listening. I don't think it really happens, because at this point in our friendship, like we'll just go off and do our own thing. Yeah, and there's no whatever. No, I don't think so. But I mean, actually we haven't

well we didn't. Did we do a little cheers at dinner? We did? We did we click our paper cups? I think I think I feel like we did. This is kind of a big deal, Like it was weird to be separated for a year, and it was actually it was on the same masthead and uh one of meals and episode type together. Do you know what's amazing is all these incredible meals we've had. No, we didn't pay for them ourselves. It was a company money. And boggles

the money there is. The politicians in Philadelphia say, well, a jail now, so al right, what a life? Alright, alright, so the people can go right, yeah, all right, thank you for listening. This is the end of this fire drill, and we'll do it again tomorrow. Good night, put another log on the fire. Nobody here is get the time.