Fire Drill 012: Dreamers and Shadows

thank you for being part of this. Thank you guys, thanks for having me on, always on it to be with you. That's a lie. So um. This is gonna be a PG Championship preview from a slightly different point of view. You know, Ryan, we want to get any thoughts you might have on some of the some of the folks in the field who the golf fans don't know that much about. You know, there's plenty of talk about Scottie Scheffler and John Ram and those homies, But are are there some names in this field that that

jump out at you? Yeah? I mean I always take the angle of the of the people who will probably never be talked about Allen and probably never going to be in contention, although you know all of them. I talked to a couple of guys that I'll talk about quickly, but um, you know all of them have it's impossible to block out that, Like if they have the week of their lives, could they be in contention? Right? But Uh, talk to Casey Pine last night. Super interesting dude, I

mean just very eccentric. Uh, really cool. Uh called me at eleven thirty last night and I was like, yeah, I'm up. Of course I'm up. I've been at the course all day. This is great. But an assistant pro in Delaware and then in the winter like kind of goes and chases his dreams. Got to final stage of Asian Q School twice. UM didn't get a full card. So because of a financial you know, financial lee that doesn't work, hanging out and waiting for Asian tour starts.

Came back and has done it. But just like one year, went to uh an event in Kansas City. His friend bailed on a place that he could stay and he had bought a twenty four hour UM passed to a gym and and just went and slept in the gym until he got kicked out of there, and and I was like, is that bad? And he's like, this is great. I love every part of that. He lived in his

car for six weeks. Uh read that Hogan drank a bunch of caffeine before events, so did that and had to shake so bad, you know, couldn't put It's just a really weird, eccentric, awesome dude. And uh uh he said where do you get I asked him where he got it? He said, I've been working on my putting. I said where did you Where do you you know? Who do you work with? And he said, I worked with YouTube. I do a lot of YouTube clips on Tiger and so, uh, super good dude. And then Jared Jones.

You know, I think a lot of people just don't realize how hard pro golf is. I mean, Jared Jones was like a very decorated amateur player as a junior, went to Ohio State for four years. I mean, I was on the team and everybody knows that the history of Ohio State. I mean, and didn't couldn't cut it,

you know, couldn't crack an egg at the pro level. Um, but has a very interesting he was he caddied for Jack Nicholas when Jack did the redesign of the Scarlet Course at Ohio State, and uh they had an opening ceremonial round and and Jared Um caddy for him. But thirty six years old and this is his first, his first p J start, and you know, he was just like, I'm soaking up everything said yesterday he uh, he ran into Uh he was playing with some club pros in

a practice round. They stopped after nine. He went on and met Ricky and Jason Duff and 're on on ten and played the back night with him, and he's like, you know, I'm I'm a golf nerd. It's the coolest thing ever. So uh, you know this will be like the pinnacle of most of those guys career. Uh. And it's it's just super cool, you know. It's just that's kind of the side I obviously focus on. And um, it's just a super cool part of golf that is

not I always say the same thing. It's like, you don't get a chance to have a free throw contest, to play for the Lakers for a week, and and these are just like regular regular Joe's and now they're going to play in one of the four biggest tournaments in golf. It's just very cool. Yeah, I like that

for for Michael and Las. I mean, there's there's always debate about should they reduce the number of club pros or those guys taking the spots of more seasoned touring players, But this is the one week all year we really celebrate the guys in in the pro shop, right, who are are in a huge part of of of the sport and they're the ones who cure your slice and they get you deal a new driver, and like they're they're the lifeblood for a lot of people's golf experience

and I think it's kind of cool that that we give them this this this stage. And you know, with with twenty more players from the bottom of the PGA tour, you know, if money list make a huge difference in this tournament, probably not, but it gives a little a little heart and soul to this event. But what does your guys take on on where the club pros fit in? Well, you know, I think it's to me, it's always interesting

to see there are so many different classes. I think there's twenty four different classifications of PGA professionals, ranging from what we think of as being like the director of golf or head professional, all the way down through club fitters, um you know, merchandizers, teaching professionals. All of those different specialties within the profession can qualify UM for PGA membership. And it's not often you get like an actual shirt

folding assistant in the event. A lot of these guys spend a lot more time, you know, teaching on the range, helping us get better. So maybe not the traditional pro that we're thinking of, you know, answering the phone, kind of running the tournament, but um, you know this is it's also like an homage to the profession, you know, to the actual PGA of America, to say, like, you know, this is the roots of the professional game in America. It's always been kind of a quirky major for me

at least, but I love to see it. Um you know, Illinois coach Mike Small is kind of my favorite of the PGA pros that kind of pops in and and makes a run at it, So I enjoy it as a as a former club pro. For me, it's it's fun to see some names pop up that I see again and again. UM, and some of them can really play, so so it's a real threat to watch it. Yeah, I would agree with all that. And then to Ryan's point when he's citing the names of these players, I've

never heard of either of those names. Ryan, that that you just mentioned. But even though this is not an open championship is open championship. You can be good enough at golf to even without any status on any tour anywhere in the world, you can be good enough at golf to play your way into this championship like those two guys did. So that's really cool. And Ryan to at last year point about about Mike Small and you'll all remember this name, but Jim Alvis was a real

club pro. He ran Piping Rock and he ran a golf course at Satan before that, and he qualified I don't know the number for numerous PJA championships and turned fifty and he quit that and then he was a stud on the senior tour. So he was load and load and load to a game. Just never had the opportunity to play the pH A Tour. But there are many different paths, and the four of us would be examples of the steward. There are many different paths to making this game part of your life, and this week

does celebrate those guys. And just one of the quick note, and this kind of relates to what Phil has been talking about of late, this PGA Tour that we're so interested and talk about all the time. It's a breakaway to her from the PGA of America. And that only happened in ye It's not like it's a hundred years ago. Um So the historic ties between the PGA Tour and PGA of America, that's a very real thing. And for this one week to bring the two together is new inappropriate.

And I'll quickly add there was a great article Allen about from Shane Ryan about uh, you know, club pros and and it's it's a dying profession. Assistant pros make no money and unreal hours and the growth of golf and obviously we it's kind of I I kind of compared to Twitter. Twitter is great kind of make Uh

they're probably probably level field. So the article really went into the you know that there's a lot of pain in the ask members and these these guys are making thirty grand a year, thirty five grand a year and quitting like crazy. They can't even fill the job. So, um, I think it's an important week to to just that this profession is not very glamorous at all. A lot of these guys are director of golf and director of

instruction and living a pretty good life. But they all most of them lived, you know, an assistant pro and some very obscure club that we've never heard of, making thirty grand to get where they are. So um, I think it's just an important Uh, it was an important article to talk about this side of golf. It's a it's a dying part of golf. Well, I also, I don't know, you know, I think that it used to be that you would call the shop to make a tea time, and now, as the saying goes, there's an

app for that. It used to be that if you had a snap hook that you needed cured, you'd go get a lesson at the club. Now there's an app for that. So the profession itself is is going the way of the travel agent. You know, it used to be that people actually bought clubs from the professional who often own the shop. But the second they could save nineteen on a five dollar set of irons, they would

do that. So, you know, people have not supported their shops and and and their local prosum in in a way that you know, maybe the profession needs because of competition from big box stores, because of technology. So, um, this has been writing on the wall since I worked in the back room in Town and Country in nineteen ninety when the big you know people would show up with boxes and say, hey, you know, here's my here's the clubs I just got down the street at Nevada

Bob's and they would ham them to the pro. Could you just throw the box away for me and switch them out and maybe take my old clubs and give them to a caddy or something. And and the pro who owns the shop with these same clubs and stock, it's going to have to eat the cost of those clubs because no one's going to buy them from him anymore. So, um, this this has been coming down the pipeline for a while.

And when most professions and most careers are threatened like that, they will make adjustments to survive and be more relevant. So what you saw was the PGA tour starting to special Sorry, the PGA of America is starting to specialize the profession. So okay, Ryan French, look you're not only going to be a pg A professional. You're gonna be a PGA professional with with an emphasis on food and

beverage or with an emphasis on general management. So now we're going to put more duties on your shoulders, hence more time at the job. More um, more touch places in in the clubhouse, whether you know it's it's the food or the operations of the ground screw now falls on you. So um, it's been coming for a while, and and it's it's sad to see that the reaction that the p g A had um which was to

develop this professional golf management program. So now I, as a graduating senior in high school, can go to Fair Estate or Clemson and do a four year p g A program. And here I come out at age two, and I they expect me to be a class APGA member who can handle the rigors of of a job that's not that easy and certainly not that easy for two year old kid who very likely you know is in it because he loves golf, not necessarily because he

loves managing people where he understands operational excellence. So you kind of make your own bed in this world. Yeah, you know, it's just when I think about the all the class A pros out there my three summers and as a cartboy at Pebble Beach, I saw this play at a few times. You had to pass the player ability tests and I can't remember the numbers. I think you had to shoot like seventy five or something around there.

And the stress on these guys. They've done all the classroom work, they've got all the qualifications and they have to go out and pass this test and it's very unforgiving. You know, It's just it's just a number you got to shoot and there's no wiggle room. And these were good players, but you know, guys would wash out and they'd have to wait however many months to try again,

and it was like it was it was this. It was almost kind of cruel because if you can shoot seventy seven seventy seven, you're still a good player and you can still be a good head pro somewhere. But no, you gotta get you gotta hit the number, or that doesn't count. And like to me, that was like really high stakes golf. And I was sort fascinated, as as a teenage I don't really understand how it all work, which is the this is like a life changing thing.

They go out and shoot these numbers, and that's always stuck with me. It's so interesting what what what Las was saying there, Because of course there's the economics of the whole business that Las is addressing, and then there's also as he's as he was talking about, I'm thinking about the texture of the game has changed a lot because you really there are fewer humor interactions with club pros because you're doing so much online. And uh, and

we say that in every walk of life. I mean even you know, when you're on the turnpike and you go to pay your toll, well you don't talk to human being at all. Of course, you just go right through the easy pass. Uh. And that has actually affected the uh, the texture of the game. Or like when Ryan's talking about this, Uh, I think the assistant pro from Delaware who's getting his pustle punting lesson not from

his buddy but from YouTube. And that's none of this is helping the game or society, this lack of the placky humor interaction. So it's, um, I never thought about last what you just said until until just now. But uh, you know, part of the texture of Club life, especially at a fancy club where even at Immunity was guys hanging out and talking. And I don't mean guys anybody, you know, kids and whomever. And there's less of that now and I don't think society is better for it. Yeah,

that's that's well said. UM, I want to switch gears a little bit. You know. Um, Michael and I did a podcast with Jeff Ogilvie and we really got into Southern Hills as a golf course and as a as an incredible test and all those things. But uh, I wanted to talk a little more big picture here. You know, Michael, I have discussed many times like the one of the pleasures of this job is that it takes us to places we probably wouldn't get to otherwise, and you get

to explore a place like Tulsa. UM, for Ryan is at Midwestern I want you to speak to what it means to have, you know, one of these big, huge tournaments come to uh, you know, not a booming which

Propolis and and then Laza's. I know you've been tracking this for a while, but you know, Tulsa has its own unique history, and UM, if we can get into some of that as well as the complexion of the city and and some of the some of the darker shadows that that are around Tolls through the years, and and how maybe this uh Gulf it plays a role in all that. But what to start with, Ryan, Like, what does it mean to Tulsa when a PG championship

blows into town? Yeah, I mean I think, Um, you know, I called you and I talked on the phone yesterday and you flew into Oklahoma City, Like how many majors have you had to fly into a different city and then drive to Like it just it doesn't happen very often, and so it's the only show in town. I mean, Bunky Perkins is a great follow and I mean, like he was listing places that you would go and hidden

gems and Tulsa and those kind of things. It's just it's pretty I mean, Tulsa is a big city, but in the scheme of things, in the scheme of majors, it's not very big. And um, it's just cool to see a place where it's the only show in town, and it's just it's pretty rare. So um. Obviously, Michael's article about how we got here and all those kind of things is is it great of how we got here, but just Tulsa on its own, is it's cool to see a Midwestern you know, blue collar ish type city

have the only show in town. The the LPGA did that for years. Uh. It went to places that you know, didn't have NBA teams, in Major League Baseball teams and uh and it worked. It was the only show in town. And it's neat when you know, professional men's majors golf doesn't do it very often, although in a sense Augusta does it every year. I mean, would we ever go to Augusta, Georgia where not for the fact that it has the Master's uh no, um and or you know

Manchester for Ryder Cups. Now, so it is neat how golf can be the only show in town and bring the whole world um into that town for a week. Yeah, Tulsa, you know, has a unique UM. It's curious to me that it's it's this is a tough thing to talk about, um because I was sitting working on a piece about

a man named Bill Spiller. So Bill Spiller is largely viewed as the the primary man who who who broke down the Caucasian only clause He was the person that went toe to toe with the As Michael mentioned earlier in nineteen sixty one, you know, the PGA Tour and the PGA were together, they were one, there were one entity, um and they had a Caucasian only claus and Bill

Spiller was the man that challenged it. Um. He was the one that kicked down that door so that so that people of color could play on the on the p G A tour. Um. He's from Tulsa and from Tulsa, I mean you know, he moved there, uh when he was eight years old. And this is in nineteen twenty one, just after, just after the Tulsa Race Ride massacre. So for those that are unfamiliar, um in UM one to June one, the you know, black people were killed in

large numbers. People flew planes and dropped bombs on them and destroyed the primary black neighborhood in Tulsa. And it's things like that on the shoulders of years of Jim Crow, on the shoulders of failed reconstruction, still dealing with the residue of slavery. And it's things like this that that make people want to leave the South and go to places like Chicago and New York and St. Louis, and

in Bill Spiller's case, he goes to Los Angeles. Um, we were lucky enough to get into the California African American Museum where they have a they had a collection and it was called the African American move West, and it kind of brings forth many of these artifacts that people had as they as they left the South. So we had Bill Spiller's foot locker and his golf bag and his son and we we were we were sitting and I was taking notes to to talk to him

about you know, were these were there any stories? Did anyone share things with you when you were a kid about what it was like? And he said, you know how it is. You know that generation didn't share those stories. And I thought, you know, what a tragedy because here now in Buffalo, we've got another race massacre in a grocery store where someone goes in with a gun and

kills ten black people. So it was really heavy to deal with looking at that piece of history and and and seeing it kind of repeat itself again in Buffalo, New York. Sadly, but I asked him, you know, we talked about um, how his father was in the posthumously granted membership to the PJ of America, was inducted into the Oklahoma Golf Hall of Fame. And he didn't really he never played golf when he was in Oklahoma. Ever, he started playing golf when he got to Los Angeles

at age. So it's well, you know, it was just kind of a heavy thing to talk about, uh and and yeah, but it's it's important, it's important to bring this up. Yeah, it's it's important to know that you

know that these things happened. We'll be I'll be curious if if there's any acknowledgment on the telecast, because you know, it's a it's a failure of of you know, various school systems that I never heard about the Tulsa race massacres in school is only in the last fifteen twenty years and it even became aware of that such thing had happened. And it seems like, you know, we just we had to have the Hunter Anniversary last year, and it was something that was talked about in a lot

of different places. And it''s almost like taking a full century for for you know, a public awakening and reckoning and uh not to say that it's a. The this this championship tournament has hasn't anything to do with you know, telling that story in a broadway. But when when you come into a place like Tulsa, uh in you're you're bringing this tournament here, and you're trying to tell tell the whole complete story of the venue and the city that shaped it, it does seem Germaine. So uh it's

it's you know, golf. The Bill Spiller connection is really interesting because golf has always been slow to acknowledge it's it's problems and that the caucasion only clause lasted into the nineteen sixties is certainly something that that the PGF

America has always had to reconcile with. And uh So anyway, I'm I can't wait to hear that podcast and when when you really bring that story to life last, because I I do think it's important when when when you when you visit these these cities that have these histories that it needs to be told. Yeah, and I'll add quickly that m Whyatt Worthington the second is a club pro from Ohio who qualified African American, only the second African American um to make it to the PGA through

the PGA Pro Championship qualification process. Yeah, that is awesome and and alantier point, you know, will the CBS, Tellegaster even or even Golf Channel, you know, these major major venues were literally millions of people get introduced to what this tournament is about this week? Will there be any mentioned in something like Bill Spiller that Tulsa race rights? You know, we know historically the answers close to the

chance of that coast is zero. And it's such a shame for golf that it takes us attitude because if you look at the greatness of the NBA or the greatness of Major League Baseball, the story of cities and race relations and economic struggles that is part of the fabric of what makes the NBA and the NFL and even boxing, to let's degree, the NFL the great stories that they are. And I don't know why golf always tries to promote itself as it lives in this isolated

chamber of fairness, when of course it doesn't. And the game would be a richer experience for more people if we could just talk about it truthfully like we're trying to do here. So you know, I hope that they do I think that they won't. I think golf would be better if, if, if we would do more to this. Yeah, this is this is something that we touched on with Ogilvy. But when you go to Southern Hills, it's like going

back in time. I mean, there's there's a there's it's a very stately place and it's been that way for a really long time, and so, um, you know it's role in this city. It's it's been a hub for the ruling class of Tulsa for a very long time. And so, uh, it seems like it would be an appropriate conversation to have, even though it makes some people uncomfortable, but that's that's just part of it. I mean, you've, you've we have to acknowledge, you know, our history as

in the game and beyond that. But uh, yeah, I think they will touch on it at some point. Yeah. And and you know, I'll give kudos to CBS for having our friend and and past uh guests on the Grassroots podcast, but Roger Steele will be um on site doing clubhouse interviews and being on the driving range with people as well. So Roger, for those who don't know, is one of the kind of leading voices in Black Golf today, UM and from Chicago and just really a

wonderful mind. So I'm glad he'll be featured throughout UM. And yeah, it's amazing that Whyatt Worthington this is his second time qualifying. Before him he had to go back to UM. And that speaks to the structure of the PGA of America and where there are not many black p g A of America professionals. I mean, one of you guys might have the statistics. I know that. Um. You know, yesterday Bill Spiller Jr. Quoted the number something like,

you know, sixty there's only sixty eight members. I think there are a couple hundred African American members of the PGA of America. But um, you know, the structure of being granted that PGA classification is a little dated. You know, to your point, Alan, you do have to pass the player ability test, which you know you might have to

take it a couple of times. But um, I feel like the p g A could certainly go out to some of these courses that serve communities of color and they will see that there are people that are largely operating in a in a in a professional capacity. And they are people that could be given some kind of a fast track to PGA membership to to kind of get those numbers up to kind of look at a way to say like, actually, there are people doing the work that's important to our game. How do we meet

them and say, Okay, yes, you you know. Karen Peak is a great example. Karen Peak is a is a woman who runs all of Detroit public golf. She graduated from the University of Michigan with a degree in history. She's fine player, she knows all about the history of golf in Detroit. She literally runs operations for three different golf courses. She's already an LPGA member, so there is a fast track to go from LPGA membership to PGA membership.

That model of saying like, yes, if you have experience in this already, don't worry too much about these three levels of of of training that we're gonna put you through. Some of them are very archaic. By the way, Um, don't worry about flying to Florida three different times. Don't worry about buying mountains of books that you're never going

to use. Once you get past this program, Let's just look at your experience and what you do and somehow find a way to say, all right, give us your body of work, we'll review it and we'll get back to you with what we'd like to see for you to become a PGA member. Because there are thousands, thousands of people who are you know, you've got Steve at

the range at Rancho. He's given more lessons than every kid in the PGM program, which Wyatt Worthington, by the way, is an alumnus of of Methodists, where he was in

the PGM program. But there are people all over our country, black people working in golf, passionately dedicated, who who could easily easily run clubs and and teaching programs that that I think it would behoove the PGA of America to find a way to bring those people in, maybe in unorthodox manner, but um, it seems like a no brainer to me to to reach out and find a way to to get those people under the umbrella, so to speak. So I just jumping with one quick question because I

want to correct myself if it's necessary. Less you may know the science, certainly don't. Does CBS have something in the works, um to really talk about race relations in the history of race in Tulsa, so I can't know about it. If that's the case, I definitely want to correct myself. About six months ago, somebody asked me if if if I had any ideas for for them um at CBS and so I would expect to have something. I mean. My response, well, I hope, I'm let's yeah,

let's help, let's help. So so we'll see what happens. Yeah, and I think last well, I know I heard that I a PG official told me. I think there are twenty nine thousand members of the PG of America. This is it's almost hard to say the number because it seems so a bit fewer than two hundred are are black or or people of color. Yeah, think about that. That's amazing. Yeah, that really is um. All right, well, this this is uh, this has become a a non

golf conversation in a positive way. But let's let's bring it back to a little bit. What's gonna happen between the ropes. I just before I let you guys go out, I want to just get your thoughts, like, what are you most excited about for this PGA Championship? Answer that anyway you wish the golf course. Watching, you know, watching golf on television has gotten so much better over the last few years with with with with the different cameras, and the Venice cam now provides like this really rich

depth into the scene. I am a big fan of Gill Hands and his work, and I've always been a fan of Southern Hills, so I'm excited to see how that um kind of the existing land and Gil's artistry come together. I think Rory McElroy is going to get back in the winner circle. I you know, we'll see, obviously, but there's not a course that's too big for him, and and it sure seems like he's, you know, he's

kind of trending in the right direction. So the two things I'm most excited for Rory and the golf course. I'm most excited for the corn Ferry event. As you guys know, uh this majors and top players in the world and the rich the richest players getting richer, there's not much of an interest to me. Uh. I love the fact that there's some club pros. If an obscure pro gets in contention or Tiger gets in contention, obviously I'll watch. But for the most part, my focus is

on the obscure parts of golf. So I'll be really locked in on the course. What what what corn Ferry event are we talking about? Give us set the table, Ryan, you've got our attention. Note. Yeah, it's the Advent Health and it's quite Uh it's so obscure. A lot of guys a skip it. So it's way down the list of of the priority list. Were deep in the in the corn Ferry list. So, um, you know it's gonna rain. It's often. Last year they had to tee off of

a temporary green, it was underwater. It's it's a semi miserable time. Mark Mark called it. Uh you know he said he wouldn't go there if there was a fifty dollar appearance fee. Uh so Um, not a lot of people go. So it often creates obscure winners and you know it can kind of change their life. So that's it. No idea some some some course in Kansas City. That's semi mediocre of I love it, how about you, my gol But Ryan Allen and I were with Mac Barnehard

the other day. Help me out here, babbit wrong. He was talking about a tour called the G four Tour. I'm saying that correctly to what's that to a what's the quality of that tour? Like, yeah, it's pretty good. I mean in the miniq tour world and this can be its own pod. But the PGA Tours kind of ruined mini tour golf Michael when they created the Canadian Tour China that's now gone and and let Latino America all the guys go there. So they kind of ruined guys have the ability to make a living. Uh at

the developmental tour level. Um, you know, there used to be the Hooters Tour and e Golf Tour and guys would make you know, hundred fifty two thousand dollars if they were leading the money list. Uh. So those are gone. The g Pro Tour offers ten to twenty dollars to the winner, uh, depending on on the field. And in these this day and age, almost unheard of. Michael so good reputable. The guys owned it for a long time. And as we have learned as we've read about Big

Money Classic and other tours, he pays people. And that's the most important thing that guys just want to get a check. Alan the thing to follow up on what last was saying, hi to him. I'm drawn to the golf course and to watch the golfing intelligence of the world's best players rise to the challenge of playing a

golf course is difficult in Southern Hills. And then to go even a little deeper into that, uh, that nook, especially pitch shots and greenside shots and bunker shots and short putting and lag putting on tricky greens because they're all so good. Um uh tita green now. But that's is the great equalizer. It is the greatness of a golf course like Southern Hills, like Augusta Nationals is pitching it and chipping it and lag putting it and short putting it and not just doing it on Thursday bright

through Sunday night. Uh. So that uh, And you don't get that weekend and week out on the pH A Tour when the conditions are softer and the grass is a little longer and it's not as also fine, but this won't be like that. And part of that, and you really can't say enough about him, is how Carrie Haig sets up a golf course is for p ch championships. Um. I think he's really almost un heralded. We just hear about like Mike Davis had a lot of skill with that.

But carry Hig does a great job as setting up golf courses and I'm sure we'll have a just a first rate challenge. Um, but we'll let the cream rights to the crop. And to watch really closely what they do is the ball. This is true of ever great golf course, is that ball gets closer and closer to the whole, the golf course actually becomes more and more difficult, yeah,

and more interesting. And it is going to be a different kind of set up with a lot more uh, areas for the ball to run to, these collection areas and these shaved banks and uh, it's gonna be a fascinating week around the greens. And I was out there yesterday about seven o'clock when they'll they'll be finishing on Sunday, and it was beautiful twilight, and there's just an elegance to this golf course and at the way it sits in the land and the flowing terrain, it just looked

absolutely beautiful. And because of the craziness on the same a second hole that's all remember about the two thousand one US Open, two thousand and seven p GA is the hottest tournament any of us have ever covered, and that thousand people remember hopefully this is the date change and and the redesign like this is the this is the tournament where Southern Hills really becomes a superstar in people's minds as a venue. So I'm excited about that. And also we're in this this moment of great parity

where there's not a dominant player. There's a lot of guys who are They're nibbling around the edges of that, but no one has really asserted themselves. And you know, if Sheffler to win this, if rom if called Markawa, if Rory to were to come through again, like uh, I think I think it's always helps drive interest in the game when when one player is is really taken the sport by the throat. And for sure Shecheffler is on a nice heater, but um, this would take him

to a whole different levels. So I'll be curious if someone can can start training in that direction. Well, Scheffler is the course record holder here. I know that's that's a great little nugget. Just just like Rory was at Royal Port Rush. It didn't work out for him there, but last, and curious if you ever heard heard this thing? This is so old timey. I don't I don't even know if you'll you'll have ever heard of it? Have

you ever heard of a gut? The club pro has the course record, and now some guy shows up, a tour player, and he's he's just going low and like he can go par par for sixty four and then thereby trump the club pro is now having the new course record, and he goes bogey or he doesn't hold out or does something to make sure that the club pro keeps the course record. Have you ever heard of

that being a tradition? Yes? Yes, So I had the great, great privilege of working for a couple of really old school pros, guys that you know, a guy named John Miller, who who used to say, like, you know, I could run this place with a notebook in a shoe box. Get this computer out of here, right, we don't need facts machines. We'll be all right. And another man named

Terry Hogan. And so we would hear stories of you know, like Terry Hogan would call Cherry Hills Country Club right and say like, hey, I'm coming through to play, and they would be like Hogan is coming right, and everybody would kind of go crazy thinking it was Ben Hogan, but it would be Terry Hogan. But yeah, you never want you know, because again this was in a different time, right, this had to be a pride point. And and one thing you'll learn about if you do get in the

go in the club businesses. If there's five members at your club, you have five hundred bosses. So whatever leg you have to stand on is is helpful and and and being a good players important at a lot of clubs. So you don't want to take any shine off someone who's who's in your union, so to speak. Um, and you know, this is the Professionals Championship, this is the

Association's championship. It it's it's a rich one. It's also given us really unique champions through the years like Sean McKeil, as you remember, Allen and Rich Beam and so we get we get some kind of unsuspecting champions in this in this tournament. And you know, I kind of appreciate

that about it. But um, you know, for me, I love I love those old school pro stories, Michael, because a lot of those guys, you know, I think Bob Ford was one of the last to really go from one great club in the North for six months and then you know, take a couple of weeks and packed the station wagon and drive to Florida and then you're a prod a great club down there for a couple of months. So it's a rich tradition filled with a lot of great stories. I love that. Well, I think

that's a good that's a good ending spot. You know, that's really what this this tournament is a link to the past and a different sort of different, more genteel agent. Um. You know, we all we all know Bob Ford. He was at Oakmon and he was at Seminole, and he's just one of the real it's a connective tissue between so many different people and so many different stories, and this was his week to shine, and like it was

just fun to see him in this element. And hopefully we'll get a little another Cinderella story from amongst the club pro ranks. Hopefully we'll get one of the game's best players will will do his thing on this amazing golf course. So, um boys, thanks for for being part of this. Anyone have any parting thoughts before we we tip our cap to our corporate sponsors. Thank you guys, thanks for having me look forward to a great week

from you guys. And big shout out to part Points, who's been a great supporter of fire Pit Collective from the very beginning. As I've said elsewhere, Michael's tired of hearing this already, but it is quite a clever little scoring app that I would encourage all you die hard golf fans to give a shot because it adds a different layer to what you're doing out there, and uh, it's quite a lot of fun. And they support quality

journalism and quality podcasting and we're thankful for them. So for Michael Bamberger, lasar Sias, Ryan French, I'm Alan chep Night. This has been a fire drill podcast. We'll be doing them all week long from the PG Championship, So thanks for listening. Put another log on the fire nobody here is get the Time.