Fire Drill 002: Wednesday Wisdom with Laird Shepherd

was just thinking to Tiger, this is behind me. Another log on the fire everybody hears is give the time, episode two of the fire Drill, and cool that we're actually making this a thing because is from time to time we've jumped on and you've actually jumped on what we call a fire drill, which is around major championships. Here we are Augusta National, Augusta, Georgia, home of Augusta National,

Laird Shepherd, British Amateur champion of is here. Jeff Ogilvy US Open winner obviously two thousand and six is here, Ship nunk, you're here, stepped down from those guys. But yeah, we're fading fast quickly, but it's it's great to have you here and here we are around a table, which is which is so much better than a zoom call obviously, laird.

First impressions, first questions, all of the golf course, so just the place, I mean, the masses in general, I suppose, Um, yes, it's I never really got this far in like my dreams, I suppose, so I had no expectations of other being here, so to be here to experience it all. Yesterday was the first full day with fans there, and yeah, it's feeling pretty tight. You know, there's a lot of there's

a lot of people out there, but it's unbelievable. Um, obviously having the big Cat around as well, there's a lot of more people feeling like excited about it. So um, yeah it's surreal, definitely surreal. Um amateur dinner last night, I thought it only gonna be six of us, so it was about dred and twenty members there. Um you know you mean Condolli sur Rice talking about Russia. Yeah, just bizarre. You know, everything that goes with it the

week is there's there's a lot to take in. But yeah, it's a lot of fun and it will be Are you trying to tell me that you never dreamt of winning the Masters, No, I never really I never jumped of playing it because I never really just ever thought it was going to happen, to be honest. Um, So in that sense, it is pretty surreal all to be here, because it's not like I've been dreaming of driving down Magnalia Lane, because you know, that seemed to be a few steps ahead of you know, where I was at

the time. So in some ways, I feel like I've almost skipped, um, some of the sort of um step by step processes of how people usually get to the Masters. So um, in that sense, it's sort of freeing to know I've just got a free run on it, really. So yeah, I mean that's that's a subtext for a lot of players and coming overwhelmed by the experience and they wear themselves out for the terment even begins, and

they're just an awe of the place. Do you feel like you may be more equipped to compete out there than some of these people who have been dreaming about it as there little boys? Maybe? I mean, you know, as an amateur, there's there's not a really a whole lot of expected of you from an outside perspective, you know, Um, thankfully this isn't my first major as well. I've got to play in the Open last year. I think that was will be really useful, um in terms of conserving

energy levels and just genuinely playing in front of bigger crowds. Um. But even even so, that wasn't that was in July. He kind of, Um, you know that that effect wears off after a while. And definitely felt more uncomfortable yesterday than I had done in a while. But again, turn up this morning, feel better. I'll feel better tomorrow and then by the time you get to Friday or Saturday,

you won't even notice as anyone there. So um, really excited to have that adrenaline of having a big crowd and and and everything that comes with playing the Masters. So I feel like I do better in that situation, and maybe some people don't quite live up to or play as well as they can do because of that. So I mean, I trying to use that as an advantage. But you know, there is definitely an unknown of you don't know how you're going to react on that first

first you on Thursday. You've just got trust in in your preparation and sort of believe in yourself really, So, Jeff, does listening to this, does this bring back memories of your first time playing the Masters or a yeah, first time, I mean I was different. I've been dreaming about it since day one probably, I mean we grew up. It comes on really early in the morning in Australia, like sort of five o'clock till sort of eight or nine the coverage and Norman was always a chance right through

the eighties. That's when I was growing up, and we turn on every year, is there's gonna be Greg's year? Is this gonna be Greg year? Is this gonna be Greg's year? So, I mean it was just kind of an obsession for Australians in the eighties, especially in the early nineties. So I dreamed about I dreamt about it forever. Um and I've been playing well and I just missed out on the top fifty thing for a couple of years early two thousand's and finally got in somehow. I

can't remember how I got in the first time. I don't know, but I knew I was in the whole year and it was one of those things. And like so we get the invite in the mail in January, which is pretty exciting, and I set it up with Scotty because he'd been going there for a couple of years before me. We went out of practice round I think two weeks before and came and got the whole, which I think is really important because it gets that whole Wow, Disneyland, I'm here, nervousness. You're not a fan,

you're the first time becoming the Masters. You're a fan when you play, you know you're a Master's fan, and you just want to soak it all up and actually just visit the Master's. So to come to the course early before everyone was here, you kind of get that fan boy thing out of the way a little bit, you know, that makes sense. And so when I came back two weeks later, yeah, I was sort of prepared

for what I was going to get. And I was playing really well at that point and thinking I was sort of a chance a little bit because I finished top I think like fifth at Sanandrews and six that bolts for all. I think the one Phil it was a ball roll two five or something. So I've been playing pretty well, um, so I kind of felt a bit of a chance. So I was a bit of

a veteran rookie if you like. But I was still crazy, like crossing on the holding of Mom and Dad were over and the merchandise thing and merchandise town and all the souvenirs and just the way like Washington and like the town. It's just you cannot describe this tournament this week to somebody who hasn't been hit like inside or outside the golf course. You know, Um, that's pretty exciting time. It was really super exciting and I played really well actually,

so I definitely think you can play well first time. Um. Yeah, it's an unbelievable experience. It's the first time you come here. It's you just can't believe that you're here almost, you know, because of the way it's sold, and we only get well, we used to only get four hours a year, right, you'd get the back night on Saturday and Sunday. Basically. Now we get a whole lot more coverage, and it's of wall the wall during the week and then it sort of disappears. But it's so it's this it's disney

Land for a golfer. You're never going to get there, Like it's just this fantasy thing. It's almost like a movie set somewhere that they make this Truman Show golf course, that this tournament, this is so different for anything else.

But when you finally get here and you see that it's all real and it's it exceeds your expectations, and all the people who just float around the clubhouse all week and under the tree, and just the way the week works is so unique and so different and such an enjoyable experience that my motivation, I think went up every year on Sunday when I was leaving, saying I am back here next year and I'm going to win this.

So I was more motivated when I left the Masters than when I got to the Masters every single time, because it's such a special week and it's just sad that it's over and you just can't wait for it to come back. What would you tell their day The course evolves a lot throughout the week, and ever it says, it's totally different golf course on Thursday morning than even it was the day before. Here we are it's bringing some rain on Tuesday afternoon, but it what veteran advice

do you have for a rookie what to expect? And you actually you have a scorecard in your pocket. Yeah, Like it's the course definitely gets faster on Thursday morning. I mean where they're dependent. But they're very good at this course. They've got this thing wired to like every bladder grass, they've got where they want it. Um, they'll have pins decided what they're probably going to do, but

they can move them around. They've got sort of fallback plans for different weather and how the scoring is going. And they just seem to be able to manage this tournament so well that it ends up finishing at sunset on Sunday somehow right at the right score, Like they've just got it worked out. So, I mean, I think what I would notice whenever I would go out there. You hit a lot of chip shots. You're playing from

all these spots, hitting all these parts. As soon as you get out in the tournament on Thursday, it's just how do I get it under the whole? You start forget about all this little anti pitch shots and stuff you've been hitting. You start partner from off the green. Um, you play sort of I don't know, smart damage control golf a little bit, you know. I mean, the first

hole might be the hardest green on the course. The first green you're just The first hole in the Master's on Thursday is a tough hole, you know, I don't want to hit it over the back. You don't need it left of the green. But you've worked better already, I'm sure on that, I'll know you don't need the

middle of gin. Have a nice, easy to part the first, hopefully make a birdie or something on two, and then just sort of trying to just sneak you away in and just get used to the course as you go, because it will definitely be different on Thursday than you expect now, absolutely, but you'll get to It's it makes you nervous and it makes you scared this course, but the only way to play it well is to not be scared, you know, which is the ultimate tent, which

is why it finds the best players, right, because it's it asks you to be brave and put brave swings on it, on shots that are so cavalier and so ridiculous in a normal week, like the second shot in fifteen, you wouldn't play that shot at any other tournament. You wouldn't go for that green. You would with a seven on, but not with a three on because it's like ridiculous. It's truck trying to hit under this table with the

three with water short and long. But because you have to go for it, you have to go for it. So you're hitting a shot you don't want to hit. But the only way to hit it well is to buy into it, you know, and not be nervous about it and free swingers. My guys like Phil and Bubba and Tiger and these guys who play that way. Dustin is a perfect Master's headspace, you would have thought, because you just have to throw caution to the wind and

just go. You know, this course makes you nervous, it makes you play conservative and hit to the front of the greens and play safe. But you'll make sixteen pass and two bogies doing that, you know, every single time. But you won't shoot any bad scores. But you'll never shoot a good score until you actually challenge. You have to take on stuff, you know, and that's the challenge, because you get nervous, and it's the Master's and there's

a lot of trouble out there. So you've got to take on these challenges knowing that you know what, if it doesn't come it doesn't come off. But the only way to win this is to take this stuff off. That's genius, Like that discourse, Laird. You came here a couple of weeks ago, you had a couple of practice rounds. Did that take a little bit away from the r factor of showing up again this week? Was that obviously time well spent. Yeah, I definitely agree with what Jeff

said that. Um, well, I came in January, late January, so, um it definitely got that out of the way. You know, my first time in the range didn't take a divot the whole name. It just was over place mentally, more nervous enough, probably was you know, any other point really bar maybe a few times, you know, and there's nothing on the line. Um So it's weird that that does.

It does that to you because you know, I wouldn't say I'm a super fan of the Masters, but you know, just the place has a sort of aura about it, I suppose, So it was good to be there. You get comfortable with where you're going, you know, with these phones rule and everything like that, getting around and communicate with people sometimes gets difficult. So I think that was it was good to get all that out of the way so that when you do come on last this week.

You you're just there to focus on, you know, adapting to what the conditions like. There. You know, you've been there. You know what shots you're you're gonna face. You've been practicing them, so you know, it's all about taking all those variables. I suppose out the equation. So when you get on the golf course, you're faced with a certain golf shot, you know exactly what you're doing. You're not making that decision really there, it's already been made made

weeks in advance, I suppose. Um, So yeah, that was definitely a thing that helped me. So you know, because if you're turning up for the first time a master this week, there's that's just an extra layer of you know, it's not pressure, but just sort of mental baggage I supposed to deal with. So yeah, how do you feel your game translates to this golf course? Um? You know,

if you're asking that question last year, probably not very well. Um, But knowing that I was going to play more in the States this year, UM, I've tried to make some some changes or tweaks. I suppose, being able to shape it right to left of the tea in my opinion here is pretty key. Like otherwise you've got awkward t

shirts every single hole basically. Um, So we've worked on moving the right to left, worked on having a bit higher changed for a bit of a softer golf ball, and all those things seems to have helped a lot. So now I don't have to stand there trying to hit it high, trying to stop it quickly, and I

can do that pretty normally. I think, you know, the that's thing about when I used to go and play firm and golf courses, that one link style where you couldn't run in is that I'd be just They're constantly trying to manipulate shots to try and make them work, and this week could ever like I have to I've got I've got rights left off the teas. I don't need to try and do that. I've got high into

the green, so they need to try and do that. So, um, I think definitely my game is trended into a place where it is much more suited to the challenge that we think we'll get this week. For me on the greens, it's just going to be the thing because we haven't really you know, back over in the UK, you just don't get surfaces at whatever they are, you know, fourteen

let's say, and especially don't get the slopes. Um. So that's going to be the main thing that's that's going to be tested really, but um it's a good place to be in, you know, even if even if you fail,

you're gonna learn so much from it. Um. So that's that's kind of like the comforting thought for me at the moment is that, you know, we're speaking about this with my coach there on the practice area, like it's never really going to get bigger than this, And I never really thought about that, you know, in terms of if you're not going to play in torment bigger than the Masters. So let's just go and see how we stack up and then you know, we'll know what we

need to do after that. So that's quite a good way of looking at it. Yeah. Absolutely, I think all courses, I mean all golf in general, but this course especially, you learn from your mistakes because people can tell you all day that don't hit it over there, and don't hit the ball left one two or for tea or all the little bits that you've probably picked up everyone that don't do this, don't do this, don't do this, don't they You're going to do some of them, and

you only do it once. You know, you only hit it left one on two once the rest of your life. If you miss it there, you're missing in the right trades because you can play from there, but you cannot play from left, you know, and you kind of have to do that a little bit. And that's what your first few years are all about, I think, is learning the the spots. You mean, you can miss the court, you can miss them all all over the place, so Augusta will still play it, but there's just certain spots

that you can't miss it, you know. And there sometimes you just have to hit it there to know. You know, it's just you have to get burnt and make triple on the first one day, or you have to spend one off the slope twice on fifteen with the layup that everyone's done once or twice, you know, to work

that wedge out um. And that's golf in general. In it like I think sometimes we get so tight, especially the way the world is and all the preparation and you doing interviews and all this stuff before every week, it's such a big deal. Everyone's so scared to make a mistake that they never actually like play how they can play, you know. So I absolutely think expect mistakes because you're going to make them. Everyone's going to make them. And that's where that's absolutely where all the gold is.

I mean, the reason Freddie and Scotty and Langer and all these guys in the field who have played there so many times to know all that know this course so else because they've messed it up so many times. You know, they've messed up these holes they know, they don't they only do it once or twice, and they're never gonna do that again. And so then it's just in your makeup, you know. So if you win the Masters in five ten years time, that victory comes from

this week and on. You know, you're learning those bits now, you know, targeted when his first two or three times, you know, Um, that's that's as I said that the genius of this course is it forces you to be conservative. But the really the only way you learn and really the only way you play it well, is to learn how to be intelligently aggressive out here, you know, And you're gonna you're gonna have to expect mistakes because you're

gonna make them. Just hopefully they're not. They're buggies, are not the other ones? You know you love this golf course? I mean this is this is this is your This is like church to you, right, I mean between Roal Melbourne, Augusta National, Sypus Point Old Course, Old Course. Do you love this course? Laird? When you play Augusta National it is do you? Are you falling in love with this place? Um?

I've never been a big golf course guy, but I remember a few conversations I've had with people after having played it in January really sort of started thinking about it and being like, this place is design really well? Like twelve, for example, is it's the perfect the perfect example because it's a nine nine or an eightion or a wedge, but you know the degree of whatever the degree is that the green is angled from the tea is perfect because for a right hander, if you miss

one right, it's going to come up short. If you miss one left, it's going long. So so then you stood there going well, So I should I fade it and take the risk if I just push out there too much it's wet? Or do I draw one and if I pull it it's long and you know bunkers or whatever's behind the green. Um, So it just asks you the question there as well as the whole or around that whole. You know, you get on that tea and there is definitely a different feeling than six, for example.

Either there's obviously no no trouble to really hit it into on six, but um, and even sixteen as well, it's asking you to hit this little drawer in there to feed it back to the left pins. Um. But you know, if you ever do it, then you're in trouble. And you know as well. You know, it's just so well designed. You look at the scorecard and I definitely I hope I don't pay for this this week, but I thought, how is this guy not burly you know,

five yards yet out there? Right? Okay, I understand why every day, you know, it's that it's such an awkward the lies. I mean, that's a big thing as well, just the piece of the land they've got. And then they've obviously manifest actually in some places. But they've just done such a good job of asking the right questions. And I mean, it's just saying this, eliot, it's it tests every single part of your game, and not many golf courses really do that. Um. So that's what a

good golf course and good design is that hits the sports. Jeff, I'm proud of you for not running out of the room when he said he's not a golf course guy, because we could have lost you there. But maybe there's something to that, right, Like you spend so much time thinking about these golf courses and and analyzing them and obsessing over them. Do you kind of wish you had that clarity where you could just play golf and not overthinking places like Augusta National. Oh, I think it's good

and bad. I mean, I think ah August to take some brainpower if you want to, like scratch the surface a little bit, like it's the nuance nuance and the depth of the test is not them in thirteen is like almost the for golf hole, you know, um for stuff because of the ball above your feet. But it's a fad shot. And the better your T shot, the less the balls above your feet, and the less risk you take off the T the worst the balls above you.

I mean, there's so many clever things about this cause I think it was to my detriment on what I what I thought were poor courses like Vanilla, boring, no strategy, no interest, just driving as far as you can and whole lots of parts and you'll do well. That doesn't it's not why I play golf, you know. I think

there's more to golf than that. Um So, I think it's a disadvantage sometimes put an advantage when you come to a place like this or the old course or Romo and where you've got to if you do have a deep understanding I think of architecture and strategy and the old, great old courses, I think you have a better mind for accepting the way, the right way to play that or something I mean I think to these days is you just hit it as far as you can between the rough and then you just find out

where the pin is and find out what clubb and you just hit straight out of here. It's like, well, you can do that if you're on. But there's a better way, you know, in the line of charm is not necessarily straight at the whole, and there there's a way around this way you can you'll you'll never make

double bogies. You'll you'll always have more chance to make birdies from these areas in the fair way you can miss the second as long as you always missed to the right of the pin on the second, and stuff like that. You can get up down if you're left of it, you'll never get up and down little things. I think if you've got that understanding of architecture and how why the old course works how it does, and all the great courses, I think you can see a

few more of those things a little bit easier. But as a general rule, I would have said it was to to my detriment around average golf course especial that's I was wondering. Well, as you said, Larri's probably already been bombarded with advice on how to do that, and do this and do that. But do you have any little nuggets you've squirreled away that may be less obvious that you could impart to a rookie. No, I think

really like kind of what I was saying before. So you've got to you've got to find a way to swing it with no fear. These are shots that you never you just do not have a shot in professional golf like this. Can shot on ten for example, ball above your feet, extreme downslope to a target the slope. Seriously, you're gonna get me hit a five line off a downs up to that, Like, um, these are swings. These are scary swings. I mean, we don't have we don't

make swings like this ever. Really with the consequence if I've a miss, you know they the miss here is so punished. If you're missing in the wrong spot, you're not just making boggy. If you miss it left on Dan, you're making double Like have fun with that. And you've got a shot that everything suggests you're going to hit it low right or long left, Like how do you do that? So you the only way you can hit a good shot is to be free and to sort of be cavalier a little bit like a bit like

DJ where a little go wherever it goes. And that's the only way you actually can hit a good shot. So that the look you'll find all the infinite little bits of strategy and stuff and the good spots to hit on the holes and the bad spots hit on the holes. And like I said, you want to be right of the pin on two usually and like do you want to go for the third green most of the time, but then there certain pins you want to lay it up on top of the hill and you'll

learn all stuff along the way. That's just golf, and that's your caddy and watching everyone else player you learn that. But as if, you've got to find a way to be able to put brave swings on it. You know what I mean? That that nervous is water on the rise. Whatever it is that this seventeenth makes it a nervous swing on it, right, Their swings out here all day like that, where the only way to hear a good

shot is to be free and loose. But everything, every part of your instinct is certainly not to be you know, so you've got to fight that and find a way to just be free and loosen. If you play well, you play well. You look at the guys who win here, Tiger, Phil Baba, these guys they play loose, you know, they just attack the course and if it's there from that week, they win. If it's not, well, I'll win next year.

You know. That's really you can't hang onto this like you can hang on a US Open or Open championship and just grind it out. It's not it's not about that. It's about you have to keep going. You have to keep because it's like twelve twelves the bravest swing wherever asked to put on it, Like it's a it's it's an easy shots. So that's an easier shot than six, but the consequence forms is so massive you've got to go hit it over the water again, you know. No,

that's the hardest wage shot. That the hardest wage shot at Augusta is that drop on twelve by a long way. And you know that before you hit your tastes shot. So it's it's a night on to like we don't miss that ever, but you do if you're worried about missing it, you know. So that's really the key is to find a way to be loose, you know. I mean all that stuff interesting me a lot, Like how do you does your body feel different this week than any other tournament? And how do you kind of conquer that?

I mean, it's it's hard. It's hard to trick yourself when you've got fifty fans and you've got all the pageantry of the Masters, Like how do you get to that police where you can just let it go? It's not it isn't easy to do. And look, it's it's very easy to say, and it's very hard to do. I don't know, you just get trying to have fun. Yeah, it's the same old advice just have a good time, like enjoy yourself. And it's true, like if you just you have a good time, you generally do it well.

You know. And what's the worst that can happen? You know, you missed the cut, but you've played the Masters. You know you'll be back, Like what's what's what's the worst that can happen? You know, you make about you here, You make about you that you're still playing the Masters, you know. So it's very hard to do that in reality. But the reward for playing like that is it's the only way you can play well here. So you've got to find a way, you know, to be comfortable and

comfortable around. Of course that it's job, and what it's really good at is making you uncomfortable. You know. You played today with Corey Connor's Mike Weir. Obviously value in playing with the past champion? What did you learn from them today just by watching or talking? And then what what would you ask you know, Jeff sitting here with him, a guy has played it a much, you know, Um, so playing with Mike and Corey and Mark. It was

no surprises in terms of the strategy on each hole. UM. I think that I think part shounds are difficult because then you're not you're not really playing to pin on the green. So UM that that determines on some holes quite a lot of what what you're doing. UM. In terms of around the greens, watching Mike especially obviously he's been here a lot, so he knows, he knows what he's doing is one UM watching him how he plays the shots, Um, it was interesting. Um for example goes

back to like what what what what Jeff say? As well in terms of even the shots around the greens, there's shots you'll never really have a lot apart from

this week, I assume on tour of him. I'm not I've not been on tour, but you know, just the chip from the back of fifteen back towards the water, for example, Mike was hitting one to to a left pen and he's flying it onto the green and for me, I'm thinking, you've not got a lot of space and the greens of firm and he's just he's flying it straight on the green, no no worries and the only way you can hit that shot is if you're not bothered about whether you hit it, you missing it, you

hit it in the water. You know that definitely you can can see that, you know, with the longer shots you have, but also around the greens, um, you know. I find it interesting actually at the short game area today, you don't see a lot of guys practicing shots that. In my mind, you're going to have a lot of which is a lot of times you are going to be bumping it and then it really so onto the green in some situations. But no one didn't see one person hit hit shot the land in the fringe and roll,

you know. Um. At the same time, you know you're going to get those two or three shots each day where you're just gonna have to stop up there and just hit a good golf shot. And I think on a normal, normal golf course there might be one or two times we have to do that. And to be fair, you could probably get away with not hitting a shot like that if you if you sort of work your way around the golf course. Well, but there's literally there's no escaping, like you have to play the fifteen toll.

So yeah, it's some stage you're gonna have to get across that pond, so you know, you might as well do it with the second shot. Like that's but that's crazy, that's literally I mean for me, you know, that's that's not nuanced at all. And in that respect, like you don't want you know, just get over the water as soon as possible in fifteen um, because you don't want

that wed shot in UM. So you know, it's definitely you know, it can definitely see that that you've just got to stand up there and hit a golf shot, you know, and not you know, no point worrying about what could happen because if you hit a bad shot, it's going to be pushed, so you can't worry about doing it. You know, you can't hit a bad shot and get away with it sometimes. So UM. But in terms of you know, the more nitty gritty of stuff that you learned, I think you learn that more from

just watching. Um. It's very hard as a rookie to go and ask a good question because you don't know what you want to hear, you know what I mean, So you just you just watching and try and absorb as much as possible. But at the same time, I think you've got to make your own mistakes, but also not you can't rely on on good advice. You know, You've got to be able to try and work it out for yourself because under the gun, you know, am I going to trust what Mike told me three days ago?

Or am I going to trust what I feel like I need to do? And I think you've also got to have some mix of that. I think, um, you've got to trust your instinct. So yeah, I love all the golf talk, but I'm curious if you had any like starstruck moments or has there been anything that stood out away from the preparation. Maybe it's amateur dinner. We hear all about the champions dinner, but not much about the amateur dinner. Can you take us into that room

and describe the scene a little bit? Yeah, that was intimidating. I'm not like socially you know, that was That was a tough one for me. I thought there was only gonna be six people there, and then we walked into the room and there's actually every single but what I felt like, every single member of Augusta Nationale in the room. And I was like, well, I don't know, I'm gonna be talking to but I'll be shuffling somewhere quietly. Um So,

but yeah, that was that was really cool. Surgoy was given the little pep talk to the amateurs and we came out with some stat that of amateurs that playing the Masters go on to win it. And I'm sure that number is decreasing it every it goes. But um, that's kind of what's kind of cool to hear, you know, Um, once you've been here, once, you know, I'd love to come back here and play for a bit of money. So or maybe you see if I still think that on Sunday, but you know, I can imagine it's it's

a lot of fun. So do they see all the amateurs together? Do they mix you up throughout the room. And remember, if you know, I thought I'll be next to James. I've played the Georgia Cup against James Pyett and us Sam Champ. I thought, well, I know themselves'll be fine. I'm just sitting next to him. I'd see him for the whole night. But it was it was true. You know you're speaking to Surgery came out to me,

con Lucy Rice and say came up to me. Number of you know, massive names and cool people, you know that you'd never get a chance to meet outside of being here this week. So yeah, and in terms of starstruck, I wouldn't say, well, I would say Tiger. This morning he walked onto the range and I sort of caught myself because on the parting green, I heard some commotion going on, turned around and sort of what was that Tiger? And I was like, fucking playing cool? Would you asked me?

I just didn't. I didn't look at him. I just was was doing what I was doing. But I can tell you I was not thinking about the part I was hitting. I was just thinking that Tigle is behind me. That's been crazy to see, you know this the jeweler guy has um It's pretty cool. Yeah, obviously that's one of the reasons that the progralfers have so much reverence for a guest the National because it's rare for them

to be the poorest person in the room. But that's an area you walking into all these green jackets, like, oh, I'm not at the top of the food chain like I thought it was. U. What do you think of your draw for the first two rounds? Perfect? It's almost like someone had asked me who would like to play with. To be fair, um, I played a pract round with with Bob Market at the open Um. It's Caddies good friends with Mike Caddy. Um, so that's gonna be really comfortable.

So that's that's good. Um. You know we overlapp for about a year playing amid stuff. But it would be good to have a familiar face. And then obviously you know, Charles is the past winner. I mean, as I said when I was asked who I wanted to play with, if I really don't mind, you know, everyone's pretty good at goal. That's playing the masters, you know, and everyone's going to have have Everyone's gonna be interesting to watch and learn from. Um, so you know, put me with whoever.

But yeah, really happy with the group of got so it would be a little of fun. Part three, you said you might play with Shane, Larry and Rory. Yeah that's been ESPN has put a stop to that apparently. Yeah. So I think we have Bryson now, which yeah that's uh yeah, I mean definitely learns something there. Yeah. Yeah, well it's funny my Tom Baby he's a he's a big Bryson fan, So maybe try and get him to sign something. He's a Bryson fan boy, but now I'll

be It would be fun. I mean, you know, at the end of the days, he's a guy that plays golf, so we have that in common. So maybe all you have in common? Maybe tell us where ESPN like nix

the pairings, Like what do you mean by that? Well, so, so I when I arrived on Saturday, obviously registered and noticed that m Rory and Shane, who were down on the par three list, had not registered yet, and I thought it was a bit odd, but there was a space next to them, so I thought, well, I'm only going to get this chance once, so much as I put my name down. But apparently they planned well I

don't know. I don't really know the story, but the guy from the Masters came over to me on the practice so I thought I was getting told off for something. Thankfully that wasn't the case. But yeah, he just said there's been a mix up and when you change it so and I'm not going to put up a fuss about it. So that's fun with me. Yeah, this is ridiculous. It was all good with me. Well, I think we'll try and play with them tomorrow. They said, so in

the morning. Yeah, yeah, well we'll see obviously the weather whole time, but yeah, that will be to be fair, I'll be probably more valuable than BO three when my girlfriend was going to carry for me at the part three and she was upset at the change. So yeah, who are your people that you have this week as far as family and friends? So my mom and dad, Um, my girlfriend's here, my girlfriend's mom's here. Um. I've got a friend who who car from at the Open and

he's here. My friend Andrew who's carding for me, um, and then a few how many friends. My stepbrother has been here for a few days. He's probably gonna head out tomorrow. M Yeah. And then just been a few a few people we've picked up at the Golf Club of Georgia. They came yesterday. You know, people just love it.

And I say the best part about um, I suppose, in my position and qualifying to play the Masters, has been able to share with family and people who want to be there and giving them an opportunity to come experience it. I mean the coach I've got with me this week, Alex, he he's never been and you know,

you can just tell people are excited about it. Um, And that's you know, that's that's been one of the coolest things about being given all these opportunities because, um, you know, you can't you can't do professional goal for although I'm not pro yet, but I'm to go for the golf on your own. Um. So it's fun to have everyone there and support. And so you should sound

like you're in a great place. Your preparation, your mindset, your self belief, you're you know, your your practice rounds that you did in January and here you know, it sounds like you're sure. It sounds like to me you've got a great a great You're in a great place. I mean, is that is that your sense to Jep? I mean is this is he does it look like he's even more prepared than maybe you could have been on your first I mean it's it's pretty polished. Yeah,

it's signing all the right things. Don't You've done all the right things. You've been here early. Yeah, absolutely, that's a hog way. You don't know how you're gonna be right, I wouldn't sleep on the path right. The path three is really good preparation because all of a suddenly, I

mean you are parting on these grains. Now you've got for the first time, you've got three six footers that actually, like those people watching like, it's preparas proper prep right, it's not like putting on the putting grain where it doesn't matter if you miss. And I was watching, I thought the path three for me my first year was really valuable at like making me realize what it's going to feel like to hit these because the parts that I mean you probably did you go there and you

have you been out on the path. It's great fun. It's I mean they are ringing. I mean they are standing two or three meters from where you're landing your eight on. Its like it's full pressure, like it's close, it's tied out there, and it's super fun. But I just feel like you're hitting pictures, hitting chips, you're hitting a little breaking six footers and stuff with no pressure really but you'll feel it and there's people there, and I just think it's it's a nice little free tournament.

All right, this is what it's going to be like, you know, like I think, um, but yeah you don't. Yeah, just you're doing all the right things. Absolutely, I wouldn't have been ras and haven't there no chance I would have been this prepared? No chance. It makes me think that make tastes in quote though, everyone has a plan that they get punched in the mouth. So it's like you gotta you gotta know it's it's coming. At some point,

there'll be some adversity, so it's just about getting through it. Yeah, I feel like, um, one thing I've may have been quite good at is pretending I'm okay with everything. Um, you walk around the place, You'll see there's so many people around your player, everyone's looking at your time. You feel like you're a man, and so that kind of, you know, ego wise, you feel like you're on top

of the world, you know. Um, and then you sort of, you know, maybe carry yourself in a way that exudes confidence. But as you said, you know, everyone's got up on until they get punched in the mouth. So you know, thursdays, you know, when it really matters. It's quite easy to walk around feeling like the nuts when you can just pick up out the trees and toss in the fur way. So yeah, you know, and you know that's the beauty of sport. You just don't alone, how are you going

to handle it and we'll see. But you have it. You have a track record. We've talked about this before, but you have you like despot like you like the opportunity. You thrive in pressure situations. Obviously you almost perform your best when you're up against it, seems like, so you can rely on that a little bit too. Yeah, and that's definitely a comfort thing to know that. Um I'm okay with all that, and you know, it usually brings

out some of my best stuff. It's funny going from like, for example, playing the Open and I played a few European Tour events after that it was feeling of almost being a bit flat because there was no one following you know, I'm watching you. Um So for me, I find that's a positive an event like this, like you're going to have a bit of juice. You know, you're going to feel it, and so that's going to be useful.

Um it's useful until until you know, you may be gotten a bad run and then you've got you've got to stay calm and stay in this you know, not not fake, but stay in this sort of persona that you need to try and exude. You know. I think that's gonna be the biggest thing because you're to make mistakes. Um, so how you respond to those is obviously pretty key. Um And you just got to try and find a way of acting like you four under even if you're not. So Yeah, just just just make just just burn do

this stir all your fires up. Jeff, just hearing this talking about this being here, does this make you want to just like next I just want to play the golf tournament. I'm never not gonna want to. Yeah, only be nuts to come back and play like it's such a treat to play this tournament. Like, as I said, I every single Sunday I ever left was the most motivated I was for the year. I was driving down Magnalia at the end of the week because no, this is me. Next year, I'm doing however close I've got.

I was never really that close to contention a few times, you know, wherever I left it's like I'm doing that. I'm not. I'm doing better next year. I just cannot wait to get back. It's a special week, man. Special. They just get everything right from a play as perspective. Everything, you know, it's straight, it's nice. You know, it's like it's a reward for doing what you do, like hit balls in the rhine when you're a kid practicing until dark and well, this is this is what you're doing for.

We were just with Laird in Scotland and St Andrew's. He's practicing at Duke's. They had a snow snow flurry come through. We meet him on the range. He's putting coins in the ring, can't get balls out of the range. He's picking his own balls off the snow covered range, hitting in thirty five degree weather. And I looked at him. I was like, you know, he's putting in the work for this ticket to go to Augustin and now here he is. I mean, this is like you said, it's

what you do. That's what it's not work. That's what people don't understand. And that's the fun part. That's the fun part, you know. I think anyway, and anyone who usually makes it, we'll pretend like we work, but like really we play golf, you know what I mean. Who doesn't want to go do that? And there's parts of it that you don't want to do every day, but like it's all just we get to play golf, you know, and then you get rewarded with stuff like this at

the end of it. You know, it's certainly certainly not work. It's just fun. It's a grind, but it's a fun It's the fun that's the grinding is the fun part. Absolutely, I love it. I mean, you know, Laird Laird was nearly out of the game a little over a year and a half, you know, just about a year and a half ago, it was nearly at a point where he couldn't play, and now he's playing the Masters. I feel like that's helpful for me in terms of perspective.

You know, Um, I wouldn't I wouldn't be the same I wouldn't have the same mindset I do sitting here now if I hadn't gone through that Bose set of circumstances. So, um, you know, because I was, I was looking at life from a perspective of not having golf for a career in golf as the as the thing. Um, and that's pretty freeing as well. Um, you know, I'd come to terms of it most So you know, it's really hard

hard to say how different things affects you. But um, yeah, and as you said about the practice thing, you know, everyone everyone's doing that, you know in my mind, and I'm just a lucky one that actually gets a reward from it. There's plenty of people who, you know, are you paying advance for hopefully something they get down the line, and some people never get to withdraw, you know. But I've been fortunate enough to you know, my success has happened at the right time, and I've I've been lucky

enough to get the golden ticket sort of thing. Um, so I hope it keeps happening. But I saw money Scousle, the guy you beat in the m Championship who he doesn't get to go, you win in a playoff, get to go, and he was wishing you luck. You know, I saw a little social exchange where he basically he says good Like. I was like, you know, how cool is that? I mean he he has pure class on his part obviously. Yeah, yeah, I mean that that's who he is as a person, you know, that great guy

that sport as well. It's um, you know, for me, it was the coolest part probably looking back at about the British and Final is that you know, if you win, you get everything, if you lose you get nothing, And then to be able to then perform in that situation. Is is something that you know, will I'll always be able to fall back on. UM. So, you know, to

have had the opportunity to go through that. Although I would love to have gone blow him out six and five and not have the stress, it's been much more valuable to have had had the way it happened and to learn from it and had the opportunity to hit five ft parts with three majors in the line. You know, when does anyone really get to do that? Usually UM, but you know his golf as we have short memories, so you've we'll keep reminding yourself that you can do

so you can do it. Hopefully that's a good ending spot. I think you can do it from the Tesco call center too, I guess the Nashville. It's a pretty incredible journey. And so good lucky Laard Well, and I know we're all rude for you. Thanks very much. Yeah, I have a great week, and uh, I know we'll be catching up to do throughout the week for the Grind episode, which which we're excited to share at some point this year. But yeah, nothing but positive thoughts and vibes coming from

the fire pit. That's for sure. Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's been a little fun than Thanks for sharing a bit of knowledge, Like it's not of thing you get to hear, you know, some of my self share stuff like that, and yeah, you know heavy just the stuff you shared. Obviously, the main thing with meats with the free swinging, but is yeah, just I'll be I'll be keeping that in mind for sure. Thank you.

You'll have a good time, be fun. Thank you. That little pep talk about freeing yourself up and playing the game, which we're just saying, you know, would be good advice, not only for Laird but basically everybody. Right at some point, everybody's got a free up. And if I learned anything playing this tournament was that was when I had the first few years I've played an ultra conservative and kind of did all right, but I was never gonna win.

You can kind of chip away and make the cut if you like by avoiding damage, but you're never gonna do any good. The ones that do good are the ones who just caution to the wind. You just gotta go, you know, like that's your awake up. It's not sort of thing, and it's more likely to be you're awake.

If you're free, you know, than if you're taught. And it's even like some of the guys who have come from behind, like the Schwartzels or the guy you know, make late runs, you know, Bubba the first time around you. But when they free themselves up, when they almost don't know that they're even in intention, and they get in and then they end up winning, it's like, oh my god at once, so because they've freed up and didn't even think that they might have a chance or it

had to free themselves up to try to go. Yeah, that's the skill. And I mean the other tournaments at the US Open and stuff that forces you to play conservative because you have to. But this one pushes you that conservative direction. But you have to fight that. You have to fight that the whole time because you want to play safe because your whole Brian is a professional golfers to damage control and minimize mistakes, and that doesn't

work around here. The way to minimize mistakes is to actually embrace the fact that you will make him, so don't worry about him. Almost you said you talk to Roy this morning. Did you get into any of this stuff a little bit? I just tell yeah, I just yeah, I said, how you feel and how you're playing, and he feels he seems like he's up and about. Um. I don't have any advice for Rory reck We once he canna listen to me for but yeah, I just said, be free and be loosened to have a good time,

you know. I mean just imagine you're sitting there when you're fifty, you've got four of these things, would you be nervous about two version? No? You know, just go play right? Yeah, I mean I'm sure he knows, he knows. What's it been eight nine years that he's been sort of this has been the career Grand Slam sort of start for him. Um, it's amazing. Since fourteen, it's amazing. Um, you never would have picked that, especially at the beginning of his career. This was the one he was going

to win right first, you know. I mean, he's got a game that's just so built for this place. I finally we'll get it done, and he'll get it done.

Final comments on lair Just as we wrap up sort of episode two here at the fire Drive, you're sort of takeaway from here listening to him, Yeah, growing up kid, um saying all the right things interesting, Like you said, here's the story is so he's two years ago he was never going to play golf at all anymore, you know, and so this is like he's getting a free swing at everything, you know. I mean, what a feeling it's

got to be. How liberating it is to all of a sudden have a body that works and good things happened straight away and you want the tournament. Now you're in the Masters. Yeah, as I said, a year or two after not ever maybe ever playing golf again. It's like, um, he's living the aim at the moment, which is not not for him. I remember that sort of wakes It's, uh,

I'll have a good time. And he's signed all the rot things, and he like he's he sounds he sounds like he's pretty mature about the whole thing and keeping it in perspective, which is very hard to do when you come here for the first time. What do you think I will listen? I mean you you're just getting to know Layard. Obviously we've talked to him a bunch, But what's your what's your impression? Well? Supermature, uh and polished.

I wish I could have seen Jeff's thought bubbles a few times, you know, when Laard was talking, because I almost had this sense like, okay, kid, you know you don't really know what's coming. I like what you're saying, but just wait. You know, there's like, you know, there's sort of a dragon on the side of the drawbridge, you know, waiting for him on Thursday. But um, you know, he's well, we'll see how his game actually translates. But I mean it's encouraging. It seems like he's really prepared,

and he's he's and he's ready. He looks good. I mean, I don't know, it's a it's a big gas for any amateur to come here and the play really well. But he seems to be as equipped as anybody could do. I was really I was really impressed with you know, he's grateful and appreciative of the either the advice or the thoughts or the commentary. But at the end of the day, he does know that he's going to need to execute. I thought that was a little cocky, said you need I think I don't think that was works

in his favor. Like, thanks, Mike, we were I'll handle it from here. You know, well, I like that Mike we're not gonna be outher to hold his hands like that. That's probably a good attitude. I don't know. He and he admits I'm gonna make mistakes, and Jeff says, you know you're going to learn from those, and so I'm gonna have to go do that. I mean, that's the deal. Yeah, you gotta try to. You gotta let yourself mike mistakes, otherwise you'll never know wrong. Yeah, all right, the fire

is out. On episode two, put another log on the fire. Were here is getting time