Bandon Dunes is Back in The News

puts into them is just beyond comparison. And but he finds these sites, he goes back to that that that nucleus of playing golf on sandy firm ground, and in Mike's case, at least until Sand Valley, it was always about somewhere near the sea. Um he just finds it to be. It's a it's a connection to five years of golf streets and he he just I think he believed in before he started doing these golf developments that that was a connection that would resonate with American golfers

as well as European and other other nationality golfers. And he brought it to us. He gave us the opportunity to experience it, and he was right. I mean, it's a it's a It may be the oldest form of golf in the world, but I think it's still the most appreciated. Got another log on the fire here give

the time. Welcome to the fire pit with Mattinella. This is a bit of a new form of a fire pit podcast, um, which we're we're thrown to get thrown together pretty spontaneously because of the news out of bandoned dunes and because of the news out of bandoned dunes, that's a that's a thunderbolt, I mean new golf courses a bandoned we gotta put the bat signal like it's

time to go there. That gets our attention quickly. Not to mention, I said that it's very rare that bandoned, for lack of a better term, trumps its own news. But thirteen U S g A championships coming to coming to the resort in the next twenty four years. For me, it's it's like the hits just keep on coming. And all amateur championships for that matter, which given the infrastructure in the location, is pretty much all that it can have.

Um you know I I you know, abandoned dunes golf as it was meant to be best pieces of property used for golf, Minimalist architects, uh spartan you know, accommodations and infrastructure always. You know, Mike Kaiser's you know, grandest dream for a place in which he started with one course and a little lodging, was the idea of hosting

a US amateur. I don't think even in his wildest dreams, even though it has grown to be what's now widely considered dream golf, which includes Sand Valley and and Cabot, all that has happened at Cabinot Links and cliffs, this is far beyond his wildest dreams. I don't think he could have ever imagined having now what what's going to be multiple US amateurs, multiple women's amateurs, a Curtis Cup,

a Walker Cup, Junior amateur championships. You know this, this is between the U s g a giving and here's multiple US opens and essentially be declaring pioneers as kind of the old course of US opens, like the old courses to the opens, Bandon is now becoming the home and the hub of amateur championships. I mean, as it should be. It's really the heartbeat of American golf. And there might be individual courses that are meaningful to each of us and the golf fans and to the golf world,

but as a destination for the public golfer. There's nothing even close to Bannon Dunes, and it's uh it's such a special place to so many of us. And UH the U s g A, with its mandate to grow the game and their renewed emphasis on the grassroots the game, it's just a perfect statement that they're making banned in essentially their home base. It's not Oakmont, it's not Wingfoot, it's not these very fancy private clubs, and those are still nice US open venues every eight or ten years.

But Bandon and the U s J there's this kid's meet like they have the same mission, which is to get everyday golfer is excited about golf and to bring the championships to these wondrous golf courses, and um, you know, I see this at whenever there's a major played at a at a public course, whether it's Pebble or it's

Pioneers Star especially Torry Pinones this year. When you got and you walk around, the fans have the sense of ownership like, oh, you know, I have might drive right there, and uh, I gotta put down for that bunker, And there's there's such a connection to what they're watching because

they played those courses. And so the average golf I might not generally watch the Walker Cup for the US Amateur, but if it's abandoned, they will because they played those courses, They know the shots, they know the decisions that the players are facing, and it just makes it so much more special. And so uh yeah, it's it's just a wonderful statement by the U s g A. And it's it's a fantastic recognition of what endon is and that's

just a great day for golf. Before we get too deep, um Starry to interject, Matt, but just you know, for somebody who hasn't been to Abandon Dunes, can you guys paint to click picture for me what the places like? Obviously I've heard so much about it, um, but for the people that haven't been, I know, you guys have had so many experiences there. Can you can you give

me an idea? Well, I mean, I mean for me it it started in obviously with Bandoned Dunes and then David McClay kid, and you know you have a place like Whistling Straits where you have four p die golf courses, you can have, um, you can have you know, the sort of the model is, you know the model was at that point. You know, oh, Jack, Nicholas Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Uh, you know Tom uh, Tom Fosio or

or Rhese Jones, Robert Trent Jones. You know, here comes David McClay kidd h really out of nowhere, out of Scotland, twenty five years old. He gets plucked out of you know, obscurity,

out of Macrahannish to Bill Bandon Dunes. Uh. He and his dad essentially, uh, you know, sort of put Bandon on the map by building Scottish golf in Oregon with a limited number of a lodging and then you have Tom Dope followed close behind two years later Pacific Dunes, Soon Dunes two thousand one, Tom Dope Pacific Dunes two thousand five. Banded trails by Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw before they were really Bill Core and Ben Crenshaw two

thousand ten. Old McDonald and homage essentially to Sebe McDonald built by Tom Doke and Jim Urbina two thousand twelve. Banned in Preserve thirteen Whole Part three course by Core and Crenshaw two thousand fourteen, a punch bowl putting course so I mean, and then you know two thousand and twenty. Uh,

you know, sheep Ranch by Core and Crunchhaw. So five big courses, multiple short course, little options by a wide variety of architects, but all of them have something similar, which is they like to do the bare minimum to the land in order to extract the maximum in terms of an experience. And and so you have this. You know, if if you don't like this one, you might like this one. And if you don't like this one, you might like this one. If you don't like the coast,

you might like it within the trees. And if you don't like in the trees, go ahead and go back out on the coast. If you don't like to eighteen old courses in one day, you can have eighteen big holes, and you can have thirteen short courses, or you can just go have a great time at the punch Bowl putting course. Then all of it is within a three to seven minutes shuttle ride. All of it has, you know, multiple clubhouses, multiple dining options, spartan lodging. It is the

purest form of a golf destination. Uh, you know, not just in America, but I think in the world. Well, I have to correct you, Matt. No one says I don't like this. I like that. They say I love that,

but I really love that. I mean, it's uh there, every course so fun and you and I old McDonald's not our favorite course on the property, but I know some people it's their number one, and that that's the genius of it is even though it's on the same piece of property, the courses play very differently, the challenges are different, the aesthetics, and so it really is a fun debate, and it could be always tiresome because people do this endlessly, is ranking your courses. That everyone is

different and no one's wrong or right. It's just they're they're they're so unique despite their close proximity and um the cold, there's just there's just a magic to the place, like everyone is there for only one reason, and that's just to have a great time and to play golf and to test yourself against the wind and the elements and each other, and against the transfusions and against the late night dinners and the dice games. And it's just you've never seen so many people having so much fun.

And even you know, everyone knows I I live pretty close to Pebble Beach and it's a special place to me. But you know, Pebbles a totally different vibe. And people come here and they go to the art galleries and they walk on the beach and they might take a day trip to San Francisco or Big Sir and all that bandoned. You were just there to play golf from the time you wake up until you collapse into bed, and the only breaks you take are to eat and drink and uh and what and may you know other

rituals of male bonding. But it's um, it's really just the purity of the experience. There's only one thing to do there. I mean, it's the middle of nowhere, um, and it's just to have fun and play golf and test yourself on these amazing golf courses and with the elements ever changing and uh. And of course there's the whole catty culture that adds a lot to it. Their

characters and and they added experience. And you got on the putting course and you're a group of sixteen or twenty and then there's there's a bunch of other clusters like that that was whooping on, hollering and um, I mean the Disneyland is not the happiest place on earth, like the parents are all miserable. Abandoned is honestly the happiest place on earth. And even if you three put the last hole to lose all the bets, it's okay because you'll get him tomorrow or the next day or

the next day. So, uh, there's just uh the court, the golf is great, but the camaraderie and the sense of fellowship and the fact that it's this pilgrimage to get there, and it's even that's a challenge, and uh, it just it adds to the whole kind of magical experience, and that that pilgrimage is is what creates that like minded feeling amongst anybody who's there is everybody has made

that track. There's a bunch of you know, it almost feels like once you're there, you've arrived at your club, so to speak, where you're gonna see somebody that Everybody is looking at each other like, oh, you made it here. I made it here too, you made it here too. I've made it here too. I will go to the You're in the shuttle and everybody's like, what do you like the bell? I like this with the bant you know, what are you gonna? Where are you gonna eat tonight?

What are you playing tomorrow? I just played you coming? Are you going? It's it's the conversation, it's it's all of that. But then it's the shuttle drivers, it's Shoe, the director of outside happiness. It's it's the it's the fact that I can still see I've been there twenty six times over the course of the last you know years, twenty years. I I you still see the same wait staff or the same people who are there. You know them by name, they know you by name. Um you you.

It's all about sort of the the experience goes so far beyond just like what's happening in the form of golf. It's the fire pits, it's the you know, the walks you know, back to the room, the cottages down in the bunker bar and the hoop. And I mean it's the even just to walk to the labyrinth, which I tell everybody to go do from time to time. It's

a special little experience. The dedication or the sort of the the hints or of the winks to guys like Howard McKee who who or Shorties who used to manage the property, Howard McKee, who envisioned how the land would be all laid out. All those things are are happening um and and it's and it's subtle, and there's the

subtleties are what's so great about it. And the going back is part of it too, Like you know, the fifteenth Pole Adbandoned Doings is one of the hardest part threes in the world when the winds blown at you, and it's often the last round of of our big Uncle Tony Invitational of like you know, when you t off okay in three and a half hours, I'm gonna have this do or die shot that could decide the

whole thing. And you think about you did the year before, and the year before and the year before, where you missed it or what club you should have hit. And there's that institutional knowledge that adds up when you play the same things over and over. Like you know, Matt and I have done these great barn storming trips press Scotland and Ireland and Australia. You know we're always in her.

You get to play these courses once you may never see him again, and you appreciate him and you love them, but uh, Bannon, you keep coming back, keep coming back, And so you have your own scar tissue and your own triumphs and your your personal history, and that all gets just baked into the experience, and so there's just adds more and more layers to the whole thing. But I mean, you and I can we can wax poetic about and the dunes forever. We should talk about the news.

And I'll tell you so. I played around the golf in Mike Kaiser a couple of months ago and the East Bay um at the scruffy little Munique course. Mike Kayser could get a game anywhere on the planet. He wants to play Santransco Golf Club, he wants you know, he wants to play Olympic. No, he chose this like thirty dollar Muni with this very mixed crowd um And it was wonderful and we had a great time. And one thing you said to me, and it was just a four hour conversation. It was as delightful as you

would imagine about a myriad topics. But he said, you know, golf development is a young man's game. And He's like, I'm not a young man anymore. And I think probably that at its emergency, like his place in in Gulf history is secure, like we're gonna be We're gonna be toasting Mike Kaiser fifty years from now, hundred years from now, two years from now. But I think it was meaningful to him to get these USC championships on the slate.

Is he gonna be around Hope? So, but you know he's in his late seventies, so maybe not, but uh it's something that he knows is coming and that that's part of his legacy. And so it's really cool. It's like, you know, why, right, someone's obituary once they're dead, like Mike Kayser deserved to have this validation and this celebration. And you know, he lays his head on the pillow tonight, he's gonna have a huge smile on his face because they have secured this relationship that is so good for

both the U. S g A and for Bandon. And it's also and Matt, you can speak more about about these particular courses and developments because you've been working the phones all day. But uh know, he's he's been tied up in a bunch of projects and some of them moving at this glacial pace, Like he wants to build five courses at this Air Force base on the California coast. They're like a year ten of trying to get that done, and who knows, lever get across the finish line. And

so I think these two new courses abandoned. It's like, you know what, it's not an hour never because his sons are great stewards and they could they can do these things. But if we're gonna do it, let's do it now so the old man can go out and play it and enjoy it and see it. And so I think there was a little urgency and I detected that in our conversation, Like you know, he wants a victory lap, and so this is the ultimate one and he can't be more happy for him and his family

and all the people who care about golf. But it's it's kind of a celebration of his legacy. It's funny because I mean, I just spoke to him an hour ago and I I was asking him, you know, because he said to me in June of last year, at the opening of the Sheep Ranch, that that would be the last piece of the golf puzzle at Bandon Dunes, that five big courses, the short course, you know, shorties, the punch bowl, and preserve that that that that would

be enough. And I do think that, you know, he's been sitting on this property that was once deemed a place where they would be building a golf course called Bandon Muni his in theory, give back two locals in which they would be able to play that the seven holes by gil Hants for a very small fee. You know, resort guests would still be paying resort you know, resort fees, but this was going to be a place where he

was gonna have a junior caddy academy. He was going to be allowing locals to play it for for far less money than than what resort guests pay to play. And this was going to be kind of his in a way is get back much like Bandoned Preserve is with you know, he uses essentially most of the proceeds to give back two community efforts. And I said, so

it would have been at Mike. You said in June that this was the last piece, and he said, well, I'll be honest, like you know, the demand is so high based on you know, both I think not only what happened in terms of COVID with the momentum of golf in general, but also the display of what was the US amateur I think from that point forward, I mean, if you think that I I was usually booking the Uncle Tony Invitational year in advance, I had to book in August of twenty to book for October of and

barely got a group of eight in almost a year and a half advanced in advance. And that that in itself made him think like, He's been sitting on this land for over twenty years, and what was gonna happen was he was going to take portions of the land he owned and slop it out, you know, trade it essentially plus cash to the Oregon State Parks Department, so that he could get enough land and the better part of the land to build what was going to be

Gil Hans's Band Immunity seven holes. But after all the negotiations and the Oregon State Parks Department continuing to come back to him and want more and more and more in what was already in what he considered a four to one value in their favor, he eventually said, you know what, I'm out, I'm gonna go build a sheep ranch. I'm done doing this. It's not worth the effort of the energy or certainly the expense, and I'm going to go. You know, Phil Freedom was ready and to to turn

sheep Ranch into what it is now. And so they did that, and he said, but with the demands so Hi, he had David Kidd come out in March, take a look at what the land he had add David Kidd created it, spent weeks there and walked it and created a routing, brought brought Mike back out there. And Mike has a rating system of how he rates holes one to ten and he'll go each hole one to ten,

one to ten, one to ten. The reason why Mike Kaiser started hiring David Kidd again was because he rated Gamble Sands so high after a trip to Gamble Sands, to which he then realized, David Kidd is back to building fun again. That's how he got the job building Mammoth Dunes at Sand Valley, and that's how and why he's going to get the job to build this sixth course abandoned dunes if they get the permitting, which is a big if um. But he owns the land that

makes permitting a little easier. And you know, look at what look at look at the track record he's got. If someone wants to get in the way of more of this of what is you know, dunes restoration after what was ghost short, ghost gorse, choked land and essentially a major fire hazard. Um, I think, I think, I think the problem is there is not ours well, and you said something important there. You know, he abandoned this banded muni and he built sheep Rants, and sheep Rants

has been a home run. I mean we're now a year basically into its thirteen months it's been on the planet. Everyone freaking loves sheep Rants. Um. And instead of spreading out the play, it actually just made every course more path because everyone has to go play. Sheep ranched out and it's brought more people abandoned and even though another course, it's like it hasn't really lessen the demand elsewhere, it's increased it. And so um, there's a few things going

on there. But I you know, dealing with governmental agencies is especially on the coast, is always a challenge. But the economic impact that Mike Kaiser has had on that part of Oregon is just phenomenal and the amount of money and time he's put into restoring the watershed and and other environmental projects. He's been such an incredible partner and steward of of the land, not just around Abandoned, with the whole, the whole part of Oregon that it's

just hard to fathom anyone could object. So hopefully now with with renewed energy and will uh this will finally get done. And I know it would be so satisfying for Kaiser because as you said, he's walked away from this project a couple of times and throwing his hands in the errands that to get it across the finish line and be huge and so I mean, I don't know what do we have to do. Let's start right,

Let's start a letter writing campaign. We could get about fifty thousand pieces of mail dumped on the desks of the county supervisors and clerks, and uh, you know, they must know how popular abandon Dunes is. But maybe maybe we need some some physical evidence. But for sure, the entire golf world is behind Mike Kai's or and you know,

maybe this one to punch helps. It's like now the you know, he has the blessing of the U s J and he has a formal relationship with U s g A, and maybe they can push some of the lovers of power to to help make this happen. So that's not why bandoned hosting the USG events for that that could be helpful. You know, there's any way you can bring pressure to bear on on these these governmental

agencies and obstructionists and shot callers. We support because, uh, you know, David McClay kid, as he said, Matt like Bannon is where it all started for him. And um, you know, Cort Crunchhaw now had two bites of the apple. It would be awesome for him to come back and and do what's probably the last course abandoned. But certainly, you know, McClay kid deserves that that recognition as well and a chance to put his stamp on another course there.

So it just makes it a totally delicious project. I talked to David Kidd also earlier today and he referred to that that very idea that he could have he could build the first when he was twenty five and nineteen late nineties from to now building what would be

the sixth course. He said it would be poetic, he said, uh, you know, essentially nearing his sixties to go from his you know, twenties to Bandon learning all that he's learned and knowing all that he knows, and to be able to put the to put the to the exclamation point or the or the the cherry on top of what is this, this epic Sunday of golf would would be poetic for him. Uh. And and what a hell of

a narrative. I just put out a Twitter poll asking general general public about what do they think is the bigger news the idea that Bandon is going to build a sixth golf course or that they are now going to get thirteen U s g A Championships. About five votes in where you know, we're twenty three minutes into the poll, and six of five votes are saying a six sixth course and thirty six center saying U s

g A Championships. But you know, essentially that means the general amateurs are saying, yes, we get a sixth course. The elite ms are saying, wow, we get a chance to compete at one of these epics. Sort of true links style, you know, uh, venues with the exception of Banding trails, which you know is inland and has a links looked to it, but it's not necessarily you know,

on the on the water. But um, it's It's interesting to me because I actually think that with these championships comes TV, and with TV comes these this transcendent group of eyeballs on the way golf is supposed to be played. So if you looked at the US Amateur, just like we saw in pine Hurst in two thousand fourteen when we saw browned out ball on the ground moving around, impact that that had on the eyeballs of people who

are watching it. I actually think these may you know, these U S g A Championships and being able to see bandoned dunes and see that style of golf in America is going to continue to have a ripple effect on golf and development in America. Not to mention highlighting things like short courses and putting courses. It's just an opportunity to keep having this ripple effect of what Mike's building to go beyond people who are willing to actually

make the trip and play the golf. Yeah, and I think it'll You know, Matt and I you've been there a lot more than I have but we're both blessed to have been there a good number of times. And I think we sort of take for granted that any kind of hardcore golfer has been there, But just look at the fire Pit collective. Roster Colt hasn't been. Ryan

French hasn't been. Laws Versailles has not been. And so I think these u SG champions ships will create this momentum that every person who's thought about it and and procrastinated or talk themselves out of it for one reason or another, they're all going to get on the plane over time because those courses look so great on TV. I mean, the US Amateur was just a riveting show to see really really great amateur golfers attacking those courses and having to contend with the wind and having to

play shots and all the tricky little short game. If that didn't get your blood pumping, then you're dead. Like it was just it was. It was such a great show. And you know, you do you take a Walker cup there, you Curtis Cup, you know, bringing a team element and the flag waven and the partner golf and the alternate shot, it just it just adds a whole other element of intrigue. So um, yeah, it's it's just a wonderful development. And you're right, infrastructure is an issue, Like you know, all

these events draw somewhat limited crowds. Uh, there's a part to me like I've always sort of held out hope for a Ryder Cup, a Bandon because it would just be so phenomenal. And it's it's what we play, right, Like when we go up there, it's always two man

team is always best ball, and crazy stuff happens. You can be super aggressive, you can you can both both players can wind up in funky spots and you're just fighting for a bogey and um, you know it would it would How you'd get it have to be somewhat limited fans and people have to be willing to take a long bus ride from somewhere. But uh, I guess I can let that dream go because we are getting

all these great USG championships. But uh, you know, I was thinking you could dock some cruise ships out off on the coast and those are the hotels like there's I don't know, but anyway, it's it's a different dream. But I think these USG events are such a wonderful fit and it's gonna be awesome to see the junior you know, US Junior is like you know, they can't over the power of the course, like like the US

Amateur in a lot of ways. So uh so many different styles of golf on on so many different unique playing fields, and uh it's it's gonna be wonderful for the competitors, for the viewers, and obviously for stiamu ltting interest in Bannon Dunes as a destination. And I think it's relatable in two ways. Right we mentioned how you know, obviously there's gonna be a broadcast of it, you get to watch it on TV and then hopefully one day go out there and you get to to play those

same shots. But in the other way, Matt, we talked about this just this week, um with the with the Amateur Championship, all of these championships that are coming out to Bandon Dunes al thir teen, our match play championships, and that's what you know we typically play, or I would assume you guys simpically play when you head up there,

you know, with your buddies. Um, so you know, to you, how how is that more relatable than say, watching guys shoot six yeah, it's it's it's just it's layers of relatability that it is at a public of course, and that it is match play, uh, and then what that yields in terms of strategy or shot a king. I mean I remember watching uh, you know, guys at the amateur trying to hit chip shots all the off those tight lines around those greens, and I'm thinking to myself,

what are they doing. You gotta put that. That's a put that's a you gotta put, you know, And then they chunk the chip and it comes back to their feet and it's like, I told you gotta put that, Like any good caddy would have put a putter in that player's head and said put this. Are you kidding me? Um? So there's there's that. Uh. The other yeah, it's truely stuff.

But the other thing Mike Mike pointed out to me, and that championships boys and girls, men's and women's that are happening in the same year at the same time consecutively, back to back, could end up actually happening at the same time, so that you're going you are having the men's and women's or the boys and girls because they have the courses and they can do it. You can actually be having them simultaneously, not like what Pineers did in two thousand and fourteen where you have the men's

followed by the women. This is going to be, uh, this is going to be something in which if they do this, like Mike said, I you know, it's women's and girls golf matters to him and wants this to be an opportunity to really showcase that that golf on the main stage. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. And when you like when the VIC opened down in Australia had the men of the women playing at the same time.

It was great for the competitors. They got they got exposed to new ideas and it was it was a fun change and it you know, we all know that women's golf viewership is lagged behind men's and so when and yet it's so compelling to watch. If you can just get people to tune in, they fall in love with her and and the players and and the finesse and and the and the precision that they bring to the sport. And so anything you can do to get

more eyeballs on the women's game is super valuable. And I think, um, that's a great idea and knowing knowing Kaiser and his love of women's golf, and uh, I think it will happen, and I think it'll be really cool for everyone involved. I think I think it's important.

Mike made several mentions of this to me, is that he really credits Mike Davis for making all this happen, and then he credits Josh Lesnik, the original general manager of Bandoned Dunes going back to the late nineties, who was in his twenties, who we've told that story in the fire Pit podcast of the Building Abandoned Dunes obviously in a two part podcast about how David Kid and Josh Lesnik were in their twenties out there like, you know, I don't know what I was doing in my late twenties,

but I wasn't out there, you know, building one of the greatest golf destinations in the world like Josh and David were. But he says that Josh las Nik was really his big thing was to befriend Mike Davis. They've gone on to become great friends and then bring Mike Davis too Bandoned Dunes to show them what was happening.

And Mike Davis really fell in love with the place because of those visits, and and and Mike Kaiser really gives both Josh and Mike a lot of credit for what what has just transpired in the terms of the U s g A Championships. So it's it's definitely worth noting. Yeah, that that's cool. I love that. And uh, that's a nice feather on account for Mike Davis. You know, his tenure is is ended, but he's still in the game, and um, that's a nice thought for sure. Uh. I

just think it's just the outpouring of excitement. You know, this went around the internet. It was other than you know, Tiger getting in a car crash. I can't think of a piece of news I saw in so many places. It just tells you the emotional attachment people have to bandon dudes. And uh, six course, oh my god, U s J Championships. The speed in which it got picked up and how widely was disseminated, and just the celebration

that followed. I mean, it's it's really remarkable, and it's uh, it's sort of validating, you know it because Bannon is different, right, It's not it's not fancy hotel rooms. It's not plush green grass. You're not zooming around in a cart. Um. It's the different kind of golf, and it makes different demands of the people who make that trip. Um. But uh, it's sort of validation for for for golf the way

it should be and the way we love it. And one of the things that came out of my round with Kaiser I want to mention is we're talking about the prices, and Bannon is not cheap. I mean, uh, it becomes a great value. As I think most people know. You play one round, pay full price, if you go for second eighteen, that one's half price, and if you go for a third eighteen, that's free. And so you get around to golf for basically four or fifty bucks

and um, you know and one day. Yeah, and the quality is such that it's a hell of a bargain. And but I asked Mike, I said, so, I said, I feel like that first round at two, two or nine dollars, it's been like that for years. He's like, yeah, five years. Um, I said, is that is that kind of an emotional number you don't want to cross like a threshold? He said, yeah, for sure. He's like they begged me, and he said, so Lesnik begged me every year to raise the prices. Uh, He's like, whatever number

we set, we could probably get. He's like, but I don't want to go above. I don't want to go above to like I feel like that's you know, there's there's sort of h he just doesn't want the green speed to start with the three. And because he's the big cheese, that's that's how it is. And um, so you know that's so against the American way where everyone's trying to squeeze every dollar out of everyone else at

all times, right, and any other business. Uh you know you look at the cost of you know, a lift ticket to go skiing. It just goes up every year by twenty bucks. You look at Disney Laod like these things just on a straight upward climb. And the fact that Bannon has held the line on their green spies now for five going on six years, even as you mentioned matter that the demand is exploded. Um, it's just cool.

It gives me like a warm, fuzzy feeling for for myke Kaiser and his people because there's, um, there's something else at play here besides just trying to make money. And that that's a rarity in this world. And when the beneficiaries are the everyday golfers who uh you know, might have to save up all years so they can go make that trip, and they go in February, they go in October when the rates are even cheaper, and um, you know, he's really doing right by those people. And

I think it's just a cool part of this whole story. Well, it's it's it's worth noting that he's always told me that he's always wanted to be half of Pebble Beach. So whatever Pebble Beach charges, which is now north of six, he's he's still held to that commitment of being half of Pebble Beach. Um, you mentioned the idea if you play a third eighteen hole or a third round of golf under the same sun, that round is for it

is free. Um. The the the other thing, the other thing that that's worth pointing out is is I remember speaking to him when he when he opened up abandoned Preserve and punch Bowl. He added he added these short course and then the putting course. Preserve is a hundred dollars in peak season and fifty dollars in the off season, and punch bowl a putting course is free. And I remember saying to him, I go, I don't understand these last two parts of what you've added to the portfolio

or essentially undermining your business. Why are you giving people a place to go and play at a far less cost of your of your big cost and your big investment, which is the big golf the big golf courses. And he says, you know, I get it. I know what you're saying. It probably is not a the greatest idea by me. It's it's probably not the best business idea

I've ever had. But you have to remember that what I'm trying to do is create the kind of an experience, the kind of experience that people have in which they don't just come here once. I need them to come back. And if they're driving away and they think to themselves, well, yeah, it was this amount of money, but we got that punch bowl afternoon for free, or we went and played the preserve and you know, for fifty dollars, or or it was because it was the third round of our day,

we got to play it for free. You know, they're more inclined to come back. The reason why the menu isn't going to kill you in terms of what you're eating or what you're ordering or what you're drinking. Is because that's all part of his commitment to not only having you come once, but he wants you to come back.

And if you look at the bottom out prices in November, December, January, and February, in which a lot of people, you know, the dirty little secret is those might be some of the best months to go to abandon and yeah, you get shorter days, but you get a lot smaller bills at the end. Is another amazing part of this whole equation is that he bottoms out the prices in the

off season. He needs to keep that place active, He needs to keep a job for the you know, the people he's employing, both in you know, the service industry, but also the caddies, etcetera. So the whole thing is, you know, you wonder, how can some buddy in twenty years build a place that becomes the number one pure golf destination in a country in which they've been building

golf for a hundred and thirty years. How did he do it with that kind of commitment to the experience, the affordability, the accessibility and uh, and the opportunity did not just come to come come once, but come back. I mean, honestly, how many people have given so much enjoyment to their fellow man as Mike Kaiser, maybe Hugh Hefner. Uh, you know, we could could come up, we could come up with a small list, but like, um, yeah, report Thomas. That is a you know whatever, but it's a small yeah.

And I mean he's just a great American. That's how I think of the guy. It's not that he's just great for golf, like, um, the example he's set as an industry leader and as as a philanthropist and as a conservationist like I mean, he's just he's the man. I don't know what else to say, but uh, anyway, Yeah, I really feel like we could talk about Bandon Dunes all night. But the bottom line is there's gonna be

another course. We feel good about that despite some of the head winds politically, and there's gonna be thirteen u SG Championships. We're all it's not cold. Me and you, Matt, We're gonna be in our seventies when they're they're still playing these and you know, I'm sure we'll drag our sorry butts up there to cover the you know, U s g a slate abandoned dunes, because why not. I mean, might only play eighteen holes that day when we're sneaking off, but uh, I think we'll be there because why not.

It's like uh oh, by the way, It's not like these are the only thirteen. I'm sure they're just gonna keep adding to it as as they're successful and people get excited. I mean, um, you know, who knows the sky's the limit And maybe maybe maybe maybe the Women's Open, you know, that doesn't require the infrastructure and it doesn't have the crowd demands, and maybe they'll figure out a way they could do a US Open with limited crowds.

Like you know, Marion, Um, you just just except you're only gonna have ten thousand fans a day and you're not gonna make as much, but you're given something back that's really special to golf fans. So this, this is a long term relationship that I think is going to be um evolving and and there'll be more exciting surprises and well, there's twenty four new rooms that are opening up next week. Mike is on his way to Bandon Dunes to to see those. They've got another forty eight

rooms that they're building. Uh, and they're building a new clubhouse overlooking the eighteenth hole of Old McDonald. It's gonna be there's gonna be a steakhouse there. There's gonna be another punch bowl near Old McDonald. If he builds the sixth golf course, Um, he's gonna need in his mind, he needs another to another seventy two rooms at the minimum.

Um that he's looking to expand on. Um. They have a they've bought an old motel in the town abandoned that if they get the permitting approved, they could potentially renovate and restore and and add another thirty two rooms. Uh there. So UM, when you say there's more to come, I mean there's more to come. And I just want to make the I was just gonna make the point

that I mean the excitement starts now right. I mean, there's thirteen championships coming stretching all the way to next year Junior M. And they made that, you know, this announcement today as the Junior M is going on, just finished the stroke play rounds. I want to shout out Kelly Chen who dropped a course record sixty four at the country Club of North Carolina Dogwood Course. Yes, your day. Um this tournaments, no, Joe, there's no regular junior golf tournament.

I mean going back, you know, looking at the finalists since Min Wooley, who just wants got a show, ben Zalator's Scheffler, actually Battia, Matt Wolf Speed j T. And then going beyond that, of course you know Tiger mayhand badly a slew of guys. So I mean these are h the stars of tomorrow and that's happening next year. Yeah, And it's just it's all as part of the brand. I mean, kids, women, uh, seniors. I mean, Bandon is just a very inclusive place, and that's why the slate

of tournaments is uh so fitting. You know, it's not just the best of the best. It's not like they're saying we're either we get a US Open or nothing. You know, it's like, bring it, give us all your tournaments that are neglected and underpublicized. Let's make him a big deal and let's get people excited about him, and let's let's serve all these different kinds teachum ins and it's just uh it's it's the perfect slate for for abandoned dunes. And by the way, those are those are

you know, the most fun to watch. I've gotten to to work you know, the usg events with Fox Sports for five years from to nineteen. I got to work the US Opens and those were fun but long days. I was in the TV compound. It's obviously a lot going on that week, uh, and for the patrons as well. But my favorite events were you know, Curtis Cup, Walker Cup, the amateurs. You get to go out there, you getting you know, talk to the families and friends that are

following the players. You can walk out on the fairways, you can dip into the press conferences, and you can even talk to the players after the round. Um. It's just such a a different environment, um and very enjoyable for for the spectator. So I would advise to go, well, you know, back, you know, back to Pinehurst, Royal Dornick being Kaiser's original model in which he was like, wow, ten thousand North Americans make the trek to Royal Dornick

every year. Well, maybe if I build something in a remote location, we can get ten thousand North Americans to go to you know, southern Oregon, which then ended up becoming twenty north North American people making that trick, which ended up being the justification why he would build a

second course. But you've got Dornick Ross, Ross goes to Pinehurst, kid from Scotland goes to Band and uh Pinehers and Band and become, as you you've put it, alan like an arms race in terms of greatness, as you know, as it is for the avid amateur golfer. Um one starting a putting course, one doing another putting one doing a short course, the other one doing a short course. This has been you know, the the the architects Core and Crenshaw there. Then you know Bill Core and Ben

come back to Pineers to redo and restore number two. Um, it's just there's this beautiful connective tissue in which you can take it all the way back to Ross who worked with old Tom wa I mean, this just really is golf as it was meant to be. And I think American golf and architecture got sideways and lost its way for decades as people were trying to innovate and and create real estate in which they could sell houses

around golf. And I think what Mike did was reset that narrative and reset that path, uh for the next you know, for the next hundred years. As now everything is being redone and reimagined, and and people are gravitating towards what really matters, which is golf first, golf as it was meant to be ore here, m I mean, it's amazing and we win, always saying like we you know, I've always said if I wrote a book about Kaiser, would I would always say what do we think? Because

that's the way he approaches almost any decision. He pulls the group of people that he's assembled to say what do we think? And then he listens to what everybody thinks, and then he ultimately makes the decision. But the decisions he has made as it relates to what we have uh certainly abandoned dunes and now what his sons are doing in Sand Valley, and what Ben Calander has done with you know, Cabot, and now what will be Cabots St. Louis,

Cabot St. Lucia just continued. The ripple effect here is happening. And I should also note that I spoke to Michael Kaiser earlier today as well. Mike's oldest son who he and Chris. Michael and Chris Kaiser are are the owners of Sand Valley. And I asked Michael before I got Mike on the phone, to say, hey, on behalf of the Kaiser family, what's your comments on these you know, these U s g A events and then the idea

of a sixth course. And he said, look, I'm happy to talk to you, but I'm going to defer to my dad on on his comments about his baby, which is banned in dunes. I don't feel comfortable being the voice of our family speaking on behalf of of the news out abandoned Dunes on both fronts, because this is my dad's this is my dad's vision, this is my dad's creation, and this is you know, in large part going to be a big part of my dad's legacy.

I mean that that that just shows I mean that just shows you just sort of the quality of all that Mike Kaiser is telling you about Josh Lesnik and Mike Davis and Michael Kaiser is telling you about this is my dad. And you know there's nobody out there

banging chest and grandstanding about this is about me. Everybody's talking about how it's about everybody else, and it's a it's it's you feel when you go there, that what it really is about is about us, is about our experience and our opportunity for that kind of camaraderie that you talked about, those memorable experiences, those moments with loved ones and family and friends, and I mean, and that desire that as you're driving away you want to sob

like a child because it's coming to an end and you can't wait to go back. Well, that's perfect way to end it. I mean, that's well said, Maddie. It's it's a special place to all of us. So, um, you know, it's just it's a great day for golfers. But what can you say. It's uh, it's something to

celebrate for so many different reasons. And it's fun to kick it around because this just makes I haven't thought about abandoned, you know, in a couple of days until today is it's like, oh my god, we gotta get back there. Wait how many months is it? You know? It's like uh so yeah, it's uh, it's it's a celebration, that's what it is. I'll leave you with this. Mike actually painted this picture for me. He goes he was most excited about the juniors, by the way of all

the people, the boys and girls. Uh, you know, amateur events there is what he's so excited about it. He goes, Maddie, can you imagine one day the idea of band and Janella playing a junior championship at Bandon Dunes and you'ro out there on his bag, you know, as you know, knowing the golf courses like you know, him trying to coach your son around it. And I was like, all right, that said, you gotta stop it. You know, that's too much, too much for me to handle. Can you imagine Bandon

at Bandon winning a championship? So he did paint that a little picture. So now that's all I can think about, and I'll probably be dreaming about it for the next decades to come. You're gonna be telling Bannon to put it. You're gonna that's a gamester. I look forward to writing, Uh, Colt will Philip and edit. Yeah, we got it all right, boys,

this was fun. Thanks hopefully we're there. To Mike Kaiser, to Mike Davis, to Josh les Nick, to the people like shoot, to all the caddies, to the great Experiences, to Howard McKee, to uh to Shorty and his wife, I mean David Kidd and Mr Kidd and Doak and Orbina and Core and Cranshaw and my goodness, thank you, thank you. Cheers. Before we go, I just want to thank our sponsors and that is link Soul, our friends John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham for their support. Couldn't do

without him. Go to links soul dot com and use promo code fire pit Off on your next purchase. And then our friends at part Points. I couldn't do it without them either. The innovative guys who came up with a way to score the game. Download the app and go make par