Ashworth. How an American dream became a nightmare.

You've got yourself a great chance for success. And I I truly can't think of many things in the history of the golf industry that connected more with the soul of the sport than the Ashworth Clothing Company. Put another log, nobody here is welcome to the fire pit with Matt Chenella. Welcome back to another trip to the pit. As many of you know by now, I grew up in Santa Rosa, California, played most of my junior golf at Oakmont Golf Club. I ended up working and playing there through high school

and St. Mary's College in Moraga, California. Most of my paychecks were spent on Ashworth golf shirts. I had the pro shop trained to tip me off on delivery days. They were definitely a comfortable fit, and as I addressed the ball, I would lift a sleeve off my arms, just like Fred Couples. And as I walked and carried my bag, I tried to imitate the look of the

golf man the Ashworth logo. And then in two thousand two, shortly after getting a job at Golf Digest, I was invited to Brooklawn Country Club in Connecticut to play with John Ashworth. The John Ashworth. I'm not wanting to get star struck, but I was service that day. Fortunately for me, the guy is in Arnold Palmer's league of gracious and charming. I remember he asked about me, my career, my love of the game. I remember his swing, his style, his tempo,

his soul full approach to life itself. Now he's like a big brother to me, a friend and a mentor. I've been an ambassador of his current brand, Link Soul since two thousandt I'll wear anything he makes. I'll support any cause he gets behind, which includes the rescue of goad Hill Park, the many municipal that he grew up playing in Oceanside, California. I say this often. John Ashworth walks his talk. He isn't just the face of Godhill Park.

He's the first one to grab a shovel. As for John Ashworth's American Dream, the story behind the building of one of the great golf brands. As we've traveled the world together to play in Ireland and Scotland and Pinehurst and Bandoned, I've heard various versions of how Ashworth stormed the gates of the golf fashion industry, but I've never recorded it, and I've certainly never heard it from so many of the other voices who were involved in such

a meteorc rise to the peak of apparel. Around this fire pit, we hear from Jerry Monteo, John's business partner in the making of Ashworth. When we started the company, I had and John had of the company, and you know, through the years, as we became a public company and the stock crew and the company grew and what have you. Uh, you know, I sold stock, uh you know, not all at once, but you know, now and then I'd sell some stock, you know, by a house or whatever I

was going to do with it. And so it was. It was very successful for me. I made a good amount of money in on Ashworth. We hear from Hank Cashworth, his older brother, who eventually worked in sales for the company. If you were a golf guy and you were gonna have to get gas and you got out of your car, you it was a red flag you're a golf guy. John just made it like you're a normal guy. You could just be normal if you like golf. I got time with John Cook, an eleven time winner on the

pg Tour and one of the original Ashworth Ambassadors. He was just John B and John ash ash has never changed in the forty plus years that we've known him. I mean, he's been that guy. And to be trendy like that and have something new to come out and something that might change the world the golf for a little bit was I want to be part of that. I interviewed John Cook and Fred Couples together, which made sense because they started with Ashworth together back in the

late eighties. Couples won fifteen times on the PGA Tour, which includes the Masters, And one of the funniest shots I've ever seen is when Tiger makes that put on the on the seventeen fold TPC when he wins the US Amateur and he's got that Ashworth as surt and it looks. It looks so big, and he even been He and I and I know John knows him better than I do, but we laugh about that. He was, dude, can you believe I used to wear those shirts you

guys used to wear? And I just laughed because that's the first thing, that straw hat and this humongous golf shirt on tigger. My final interview was with Jim Nance, who has anchored The Masters since, started as an Ashworth ambassador and went on to serve on the board of the company. John Ashworth is one of the kindest, sweetest, um authentic, real people I've ever had the blessing of knowing in my life. I treasure him, treasure his friendship,

I treasured his soul. It's so pure. Every decision in the making of Ashworth came from a place of trying to make sure it honored the game. It really was if you could take Golf in the Kingdom, that great book Golf in the Kingdom, and turned it into a company, turned it into an individual, that that was Ashworth, and that was John Ashworth. And of course I spoke to John Ashworth, the fifth of six kids, who was born in Los Angeles in fifty nine to a school teacher

and a nurse. Soon after moving south to Escondido, in Harry and Mary Lee Ashworth gave their eight year old and ultimatum that would change his life and the fabric of golf forever literally. And I think my mom and dad colluded and said, Okay, look at he's he's either got to go to Sunday school. He's gonna go caddy for you because my dad played every Sunday with his buddies, you know, Don Patrol. And and so they presented this to me like, Okay, look at you either go to

Sunday school or you caddy for your dad. And I'm like, I'm candying for dad? Are you kidding me? If golf was john first love, fashion wasn't far behind. And I was always really conscious of you know, I was. That's the one thing I think the constant for me was I was always really aware of what I was wearing and was really conscious of you know, style even back then. I mean I wore Hank Tin was really big back then. Remember the Hank Tin shirts with a little Yeah, it

was a pretty big surf culture thing. Hey. Cash Worth reflects on his brother's style. He always liked to dress nice. You know, it always if you saw photos of him, he was buttoned up. Where you know, guys maybe at that age or when you're a junior golfer somebody in college, you're just kind of a dorky did You're not that interested in how you look. I think he always was that. But back to John's golf. Yeah, I played golf in high school, had a pretty good little high school career,

and then played one year at junior college. Had a really good year at junior college, got recruited Arizona, went to Arizona, you know, and uh, you know, had a good time. But I my golf career became super mediocre. You know. I was the middle of a pact guy, and so he was good. I went to go went to Arizona on a golf scholarship, and I think his first sophomore year he was third in the Pac Tens

and the final in the tournament. I know one time he played in the field of a hundred and forty four players that are really good course up in the l a called Valencia, and he beat the field by by at least four. He shot sixty seven. The next closest guy was seventy one, So so he had a lot of game, you know, I don't it seemed like he's junior year. He went sideways and went backwards and then kind of lost the I don't know, the urge

or or maybe thought that he wasn't good enough. John graduated from Arizona with a degree in agronomy, got out and got a job, and of course, you know, uh down the road in del Mar. You know. So I was living in San Diego and having to get up at like, you know, four thirty five am every morning and to get to work. And I lasted about six or seven months because you know, the party scene down a Mission Beach was pretty good, so it was really hard to h it was really hard to make that

wake up call. And then this little course called Fairbanks Ranch opened up. He's still living with me, still how to commute up to del Mar, and he became an assistant golf pro. That lasted about the same So he didn't really I don't think he ever knew he was getting into fashion business or clothing business. That's when he that's that's about the time when he decided he was going to go caddy from Mark and get out of

that whole world. You know, as we learned in episode one of the fire Pit, John and Hank Ashworth grew up with Mark Weeby Web had turned pro in and both Ashworth brothers always had an open invite to Caddy from Mark on tour. The story that we told that kicked off this podcast was about John carrying Marks back for a little over a year and eventually the Masters, he got his card and we went on the tour and skipped around that and that was that was a blast.

But I never wanted to do that long term. So but his sponsor was a guy by name of Jerry Montiel, and Jerry and I became friends. He was probably fifteen years older, very successful business guy, and he was starting another company that was sporting good store, kind of high end, and you know, he goes, hey, John, don't you come work for me? You know, why don't you come? You know, I was like the first employee of him and his

partner that started to sing. The sporting good store didn't make it, but it left both Jerry and John thinking about other business ventures. When I when I started the company, um, it was really a case also of the fact that uh, you know, I was interested in golf and everything, but but none of the apperil fit very well. Here was and nothing had changed fashion head. It was that, you know, the big stiff collars and the bright, loud colors, and you know, it was just stuff you would never be

caught dead off the course. And I don't know why anybody would be caught dead on the course in it either. As Montiel recalls, it was on the drive to Escondido to look into buying driving ranges that the conversation shifted to shirts. I said, I don't know how to do it, but I know there's a niche to do some some cool golf clothing. That guy's my age here, I am twenties six years old. I would want to wear, you know, And and he was just like, bingo, that sounds good.

You know, let's let's do that. So um kind of off we went. I mean, I probably was was was okay, but in the back of mind guard what not. Hell, you got no shot at this, you know. Um, I wouldn't think I'd ever just swear him or you know, and just say, yeah, let's he should rock, let's go. I don't think anybody would have thought this, you know. As I continue to learn and telling these iconic narratives. Going the opposite direction of the masses can often lead

to great success. Initially, we raised some seed money and family and friends, kind of deal and kind of cool. My dad was still alive, you know, he was kind of fighting some health issues, and but you know, I told him what I was doing, and I thought he was gonna think I was crazy, but he was. He was like, God, that's awesome, you know. And he scratched out a check for seven grand. You know, he did

this little family. I know, it's so coabate framed, it's so quit, didn't have much money, but man, he fucking you know, he got behind. It was really cool. John's first step was immersing himself in the fashion markets of Los Angeles. He'd make some appointments, getting an elevator and start learning from anyone willing to share. It was sweaty pump time because I thought, this guy's gonna say, you

don't know what the fun you're doing? Yeah, you know, and I would just go, I don't know what i'm doing. You know, I don't know what i'm doing. I need help. I know what I'm looking for. I just would be honest and just I'd ask so many stupid questions, you know, but I think that's the only way you kind of get to it, you know. Dude, he didn't know a sock from shirt. I mean technically, I mean he did, but he didn't know how to make any of that. But he he disappeared for four years. I didn't see

the guy. He was gone. John Ashworth was off getting his masters in making clothes. It is a miracle that we that company made it when I look back on it, miracle. You know. It was before cell phones, it was before computers, there was any We didn't even have a fact, you know. And then you and then on top of that zero experience, didn't have a fucking clue what I was doing. Uh. You know, the girls that I hired were super sweet, but they didn't They didn't really know what they were

doing either. But somehow, some way, we cobbled together a sample on and even when you know what it should look like and feel like, you still have to have someone making which is why they went to f Fashion, a manufacturing company that just happened to be down the street. We showed him the shirt and we said can you make this? And he says, yeah, he's I can, and he was kind of a Southern guy and he uh will put the fun accent tremendous man. Uh and he he says, but we're too busy. You know, we were

too busy. And we went there about three thirty in the afternoon when they were closing up and they were drinking Budweiser beer. And so the next day John I went over with a case of beer. Uh and uh we ended up drinking that beer with him and a couple of his U guys that worked for him. And you know, that night about I don't know, six seven o'clock at night, you know, he was putting his arms around me and said, we'll make that shirt for you.

And from there they they made all of our shirts, everything made in San Diego County, and they had about three employees that did all have cut and so for us. And without them, we would have never been successful, or at least not as successful as we were, because they dedicated their whole business to us, and we were there exclusive uh customer. They had made a lot of product for Ocean Pacific before that, and they they ended up only making product for us. So we had great success

with them. Going back to why Ashworth was unique. John shares his vision for the line. I went completely, uh, you know, against the grain in terms of you know, cotton um like all the shirts did. I went, we went with nit callers instead of like self calling. Now we do a lot of self callers, you know. I mean, it's just it's better looking, it's probably easier. But we went with those nick callers with a little stripes in them, and um, you know, it was actually a little bit oversized.

If you can remember. It's kind of payable to look at now. And I see a video Ralph Lauren had a had a U shirt called a big shirt at that time, and it was an oversized shirt, etcetera. And so we just you know, just kind of talk it from him. Everyone was so tired of being so in these tight polyesters that like a breathable cotton that's just big and lucy. It felt good, you know what is

it feels so good? Through a mutual contact, This is when John reaches out to Barry Grimes, who worked for NBC Studios at the time but was also away photographer, artist, designer and eventually a colleague and close friend. Unfortunately, Grimes, who still lives in Carl's Bad is in his third year of battling brain cancer and wasn't available to share his side of this story. But as John reflects on the late eighties, his first call to Grimes was about the need for a logo. I called Barry and I'm

explained Abouchael Barry. You know, I'm trying to do this new clothing line and I wanted to be sort of like, you know, old school meets new school. I'm really into walking and you know, the traditions of the game, but I wanted to be hip and modern. And you know, I'm just telling all this stuff like, you know, I love Scotland. I've never been to Scotland. I've never been to Scotland. I love Scotland goes. I've been to Scotland's

you know. It's like, you know, and and you know, so we're just talking on the phone and unbeknownst to me, he's actually, you know, as artists do, he's actually doodling in sketch and he actually drew through the golf man. From that conversation, Barry Grimes is enormously talented. Um, he's aid and he was a huge, huge part of our success. Uh you know, I mean his photography and and the looks and feel of what he could do was was

just tremendous. But that's how the logo started. The Ashworth the Golf Man what we called it, and uh was from Barry Grimes. As for the name of the company, we tried, sticks, we tried, I don't know. We had like a few different names, but everybody was. John and I were sitting and we were talking about it and I and I said, John, we got to name this company Ashworth. And he said, what don't you call it, Marti l And I said no, I said, I think

Ashworth is you know, it's two syllables. It's it's got uh, it's it's easy to pronounce, it's very English and uh, I said, I think it's a perfect name for golf. And of course it ended being that, but John was John was a little humble about that and a little embarrassed to me, uh call it by his name, but uh, you know, it was the best thing for the company,

and it was certatle good for John too. In John Cook won the International, Fred Couples won the Byron Nelson and they lived near each other at Mission Hills Country Club in Rancho Mirage, California. Ashworth needed ambassadors, if we could have anybody on the tour, you know, and I knew. I said, Fred's the guy. Uh you know, I played. I didn't play with him or against him in college, but I played in some similar tournaments. I saw him,

I'd see him. And then of course he was already a couple of years into his career, you know, and he was just he was just Fred. He was just cool, you know, you just he was cool. And then I knew John Cook a little bit, and I knew John Cook was It was kind of like Butch Cassidy and the Sun Dance Kid a little bit, you know, you got It's kind of nice to have two guys that are totally different and stand out and look different. John Cook and then Fred couples on their first meetings with Ashworth.

When John showed up at our place, I'm gonna say fall of nineteen seven, and he had called me up and said, Hey, I've got a line of clothes i'd love to, you know, have you take a look at. And I just started wearing the kind of flowy, pleaty pants and bigger shirts and I just wasn't into the you know, the daffinies and all that stuff of the world. So I was I said, sure, yeah, let's let's let's go for this. I want to dress you know, a

little bit differently. And I'll never forget. He took the clothes out, put him on this rack, wheeled the rack into our house and there were the clothes and it. I went, okay, now we got something here. Yeah. I think Matt right after he left John's house he came over to my house and had the same had the same little steel thing. He wield it in there and um, I you know, I used to represent back then landmarks. So we would go in and I think Cookie did

two at Mission Hill. So we would go in and we would just take any shirts, you know, with the tree logo on him and leave. And then when when this started with John, it was an eighty seven. John, you are exactly correct. Um. I mean I put a couple of shirts on and I'm like, you know, wow, this is the biggest shirt I ever had. The design of it was incredible, and we talked for a second. But Jerry Montiel is also um a guy that that

really new clothing. Um. I don't know if he knew what guys like John and myself and Mark Weby wanted. But I know John Ashworth, did I remember we had this our office space in l A was on the seventh floor of this old downtown l A. Was so gross, it was, you know, back then it was even worse than it is today. And uh, you know, Barry and the two girls and we had a little sample sewer and and we had the line on the rack, you know,

ready to go, and we did. We did this whole you know seance and gave it a prayer and you know, Barry did this whole thing. Boom, went down the elevator, put in my car and just started trying to hit places up and down the coast of California. I think I went to Lahoya Country Club first because my buddy, I had some buddies that was you know, Rick Riley and Brad Wheeley were the assistant pros, and I knew they'd have me. First of all, we said, we're only

going to sell to green grass accounts. We're only going to sell the places that have a golf course. You know, we weren't going to sell to a discount store or something like that. So so they the golf pros liked us because they had it basically had an exclusive on it. Uh. We also made it for golf. Uh. You know, we had the shirts with a longer tail so it didn't come out when he swung the club. Uh. We used great fabric. Uh, you know, our fabric we chose h was was top of the line and and so as

was the trim. We use every everything uh that we made was we made with you know, with wonderful product. So they had the ambassadors and John was hitting up his friends along the coast of California. But now it was time to go across country. He went to the trade show in Orlando. He was by himself, a rookie in the industry, and he found himself in a ten by ten booth showcasing his line off the main show floor. It went good, It went good. Arnold Palmer came by,

which was just a mind blower, you know. It came sauntering by with his you know, pink cardigan and draped over his shoulders or whatever it or his v Nex switter, and you know, he had a couple of people, he didn't have a big entourage, and he he stopped, Uh, he looked at it and he's like, this looks pretty good. You're gonna do good? All right, thanks Ernie. The brand name and the logo both became iconic, but so was the marketing. So the first shoot was amazing because Barry,

my buddy, Barry and I became great friends. I mean, he was my He was kind of my art director, photographer, everything, kind of like Jeff is with links. So Barry was

at for Ashworth. You know, we were we were thick as thieves, and but he lived in a downtown loft complex, right and you know where all the artists lived in stuff, and and he had this buddy that was this like super European high fashion photographer that did you know the film has a blade you know, four by five, you know, and you know, I mean he you know, totally non golfer,

just super artie FARTZI guy. Right, And so we got Fred and John Cook in the studio and the photos are amazing, but that was you know, the images we did were always definitely avant garde, you know, because of the crew I was hanging around with. Barry was very

avant garde. Uh. And then we hired then we started using this kid, Michael Faye as a photographer because he lived in that studio as well, but he was more of a young artistic photographer that went to the Pasadena Art School, so he was again he kind of took it to a new level and we started doing these black and white series that were just they just stood out. You know, everybody else was doing the dumb dumb super high high high gloss color and we're doing black and

white stuff that was kind of blurry and stuff. You know. The Ashworth catalog was called the Yardage Book. The images and inspiration was a John Ashworth and Berry Grimes production. John Ashworth was really a lot like us um And and Matt. You travel all over and some guys when you go do things, they're like you and you have a great time. Other times they go and they want you to wear a spoort code or a tuxedo. Ashley

Worth really took care of us. And I can tell you right now I did a few photo shoots in some areas that they got no clearance. You know, John Ashworth and Berry would go find a spot. I'm sure you've seen it where I'm hitting on the railroad tracks. I can tell you two or three times we hopped off the railroad tracks down underneath it. The train would go buy in Dallas, and it's probably, you know, I I have the shot somewhere. We went through Palm Springs

with Cookie and I living there. We were in areas that you know, like like, well, if the cops come, we just pack up our stuff and leave. And I'm like, so are we you know, are we supposed to be here? Well, we don't know, you know. So all of it was was really kind of fun and it was not nerve rat it was just it was just entertainment. It was never boring. And trust me, as you get older, you know some sometimes you don't want to do things. But you know, I thought a little bit. I didn't want

to go to Cobbo one year. I wanted to do everything around town. And we did stuff in in the greatest places. But it comes down to your leader and John and I and and you know then Ernie Els and Mark web we were the guys leading. But really John Ashworth led us and Barry Grimes what a photographer, and and he made us look like golfers but cool guys too. And I, you know, I don't usually say that,

but I felt like kind of a cool guy. So our collateral material or catalogs and and uh, you know, website and stuff like that was really really really well done and looked very professional. I'm bragging about our company, but I'm bragging about somebody else in the company, And so John did that really well. Um, and that's where I think he really excels is that he he knew the history of golf and he was able to put it into a visual format that really really gave us

some impetus in our growth. Jim Nance joined the Ashworth family of ambassadors in the photo shoots were just an amazing experience because it wouldn't be anything like you would think of a photo shoot would be like. And let me just take this opportunity to to add the Barry Grimes was someone who really captured the look of Ashworth two. He just his artistic flare and his ability to even

create the golf man logo. I mean, the golf Man logo was basically scratched on the back of a paper napkin, and that low go became a universal symbol for people that cared about the game of golf. You know. It was just sort of a period of time where you know, everything lined up, you know, everything just clicked into place. I mean without even thinking about it or knowing. It was just sort of this timing of everything happening, and you know there's a ton of hard work, but it

was just all happening. You know, to say it was all happening, that would be an understatement. Our first year we did three thou dollars. Our second year we went to two point two million. Our third year we went to seven million, and then we went to seventeen million, and then twenty nine million and forty eight million, and then sixty three million and the ninety million. So we had very very quick uh uh, grow very fast, grow.

And I would go to a lot of these shows, these trade shows, like the Magic Show in Las Vegas, and when when you walked down those those massive corridors where it's booth after booth after booth, and it's still even true today. When people would see John Ashworth, they would they almost would gasp. They would just stop and it's like they they were seeing someone from out of this world. It was like, I don't know, Michael Jordan's babe Ruth, someone was walking in their sphere that it

was like I'm not worthy. There's John Ashworth. Of course, John is kind of walking around with no idea that anybody has given given a second thought that he's he's in their universe. Ashworth and Grymes had their expertise. Montiel handled the money, and again Jerry was the mastermind of all the finance thing, you know. Uh, and he always wanted to have a public company for some reason. You know, I was an agronomy major. I wasn't. I wasn't much help on that, and they were focused on the weeds,

so to speak. Yeah, I took a lot of weed back then too. Do you think that was partly the success? I would work. I would work pretty much most I would work all day without you know, I'd be grinding, grinding, grind, and get home, have a little dinner, smoke a little weed, and then I'd stay most of the night. You know. I was like this and kind of go out there and get creative with things, and then you know, and then the next day reel it back in and be

all business like them, boom, go out there again. And so it was this constant ebb and flow of that which I think was a driver in a lot of respects creativity was coming in a lot of ways, especially as it related to getting the big name ambassadors invested in the brand and the growth. We were able to give them stock and a public company, so it actually had some some value that they could you know that they are their managers could look at and say, Okay,

it's worth this or it's worth that. But they also had the fact that, you know, if we were going to really grow and they were going to help us grow, that this uh public stock could be worth a lot more in the years ahead, and which ended up happening. Uh you know, we I think we went public for ninety cents to share, and you know, it ended up going to eighteen dollars a share, so uh, you know, not that they all held it on that long, but they would hold it for a few years and and

did did very well with it. John Cook's father was his agent at the time and had endorsed this deal, and that stock and equity just started to grow and grow and grow, and as the brand grew, and I know, I'll remember Fred had a phenomenal year, leading money winner, player of the year all that I was third on the money list and one three times and had lots

of other chances. So what better branding opportunities and uh publicity do you get to have the number one and three players in the world whearing the stuff that you know, anybody could go out and get. So, you know, that's that's kind of how that started. With just a little bit of cash, not much. I didn't really want it, but I wanted to be part in, you know, an equity partner in this, in this whole project. Fred Couple's business manager was and still is Lynn Roach. You know,

for me, I'll never forget Ashworth. We're incredible, and Jerry Montiel was incredible. John's sister worked at Ashworth. John's brother, Hank, worked at Ashworth. So everywhere you went you knew the people very very well. And I remember wearing Ashworth. Maybe it happened to be after Augusta and I got a call from Phil Knight I didn't but from Nike, and I went up there and Ashworth got word of it

and they signed me to a lifetime contract. Just how powerful was that Barry Grimes blessing on that first rack of shirts. Apparently it was so good that from it seemed to be a series of perfect decisions and steps. I suppose the biggest one would have been when Fred won the Masters. You know, that was a big one. We were already going pretty good by then, you know,

I mean that was full systems. God. One of the things I became was this laid back guy because of Ashworth clothing, and I then had a look that I think most people can have. And so then leading up you know to augusta, yeah, ninety two, I had an argyle shirt on one day and as John said, had the blue stripe on the collar and the blue and the blue stripe on the bands. Those are my favorite shirts. And then Sunday I wore that kind of like a

like an art painting shirt. Um and one and uh no idea teeing off on Sunday, whether I was gonna win or not like everyone. Um, but it became a shirt that kind of was was seen around the world and they sold a lot of them. And uh, as John will tell you, uh, we really were. It's bizarre. If John and I played together, it was really more fun because it's it's I'm changing it to Echo shoes. But when I started wearing Echo shoes, people thought I

was wearing tennis shoes and Ashworth clothing. They really thought we were wearing kind of like a T shirt look as a sales rep. Hey cash Worth offers his perspective from the trenches. I remember a couple of different hundred thousand dollar orders that I got. One of them was at Monica, and I had known this gal. She'd worked at a different course. She'd worked at Mondolon and moved to Monica. I walked in at a meeting, got to my car, started adding it up and I go, it's

a hundred grand. And I remember going to the airport. On my way to the airport, stopping at a pay phone because they were still pay phones then, and calling and trying to get ahold of John. And I didn't get John, but I got Jerry, and I go, Jerry, you're not gonna believe this man. I just got a hundred grand. And then I also got one of the Olympic Club one time for a hondo and um, I told the guy was sort of turning was for the tour championship. They're gonna have it back to back years.

And he looked at all this stuff and he and he ordered and while we were sitting there or that I could add it up. Jim O'Neill who's the value O'Neil or ballet Neil, he's the Neil side of that was the buyer for Olympic Club and uh hundred, I can't do this too much. What if it's what if it's what if you don't sell it all? It's just the ridiculous because no, I really want it did and I go okay, And on the way home, I remember I bought a new car. It was it was a workman,

but it was a new car. The ripple effect of success was being felt and enjoyed by everyone at Ashworth. We gave stock options away like they were water h two people because you know, to get them to join our company and not have to pay him as much or what have you. So we not only gave stock options to you know, to all the guys who had uh that endorsed our line, but also to our employees. Uh you know, they would give them ten thousand shares

of stock options. And you know, I remember something walking into my office one day and say, we you know, I wanted to thank you Gerry for the stock options because I just sold them, and uh, you know we were able to buy our house with it. I remember distinctly, Uh I don't remember the lady's name, but remember distinctly when that happened. And so there was a lot of good feeling about about our company, so good they added Dave Stockton, and eventually, as John Cook explains, the Big

Easy Open Championship was at Merefield. John Cook lost to Nick Fabo by a shot. Els finished fifth. I'd play with Ernie in the final round of the Open in ninety two. He was my final round pairing and he hadn't he had no status on any tour at all, and I remember getting done playing. It didn't work out the way I wanted it too, but he was more emotional than I was going off that eighteenth green, knowing

what might have just happened or had just happened. And I remember John coming to me, Ashworth coming to me later on and say, what do you think about signing Ernie Els, and said, well, number one, he doesn't have status anywhere, but it won't be long until he's one of those guys and you better wrap him up right now and get him because it was gonna happen. And certainly it did just a couple of years later. So um, he fit the mold. He fit, He fit the group,

There's no doubt about it. Jim Nance on a decade of dominance. From in just a short span you go from selling shirts out of the back of your trunk, so where now within ten years you're the number one golf apparel line in the world, in the world, and of course number one in the United States by a mile. If you go back and look at old footage of players like Phil Mickelson in Tiger Woods when they were kids, all the all of stock photos you see of them

before they had endorsement deals, they were just kids. They were wearing Ashworth. They had to put on the shirt that made it authentic that they were golfers, that they were into it, that they got the message, and that they were part of this group of people that really loved the game. Meanwhile, John Ashworth was starting to feel the effects of a fast growing publicly traded company. It

was a special time, you know. At the time, though, I mean, you're I was peddling so fast all the time, it seemed like that I'm not sure I really knew what was actually happening. It was just happening, and not unlike most wildly successful small companies that get big quick other companies were interested in an acquisition. Quicksilver wanted to buy us back in the I suppose it was or something, and and that, you know, at the time, it did

start to get a little bit of a grind. And and maybe some of the fun was sucked out of it because as a public company, you're trying to shareholders what you do, what you do last quarter, you know, what's the next quarter? You know, what are you do next to you? How are you gonna keep doubling? You know? And I was getting kind of exhausted, to be honest with you, like so but that deal Quicksilver, But then I thought, God, what a great company itself to Quicksilver.

I loved him growing up surf company. Bob McKnight's a phenomenal guy. Perfect I was in. But then that felt that deal fell through and I don't even know why. And then three months later we hired their CFO, Randy Harrold, to be our president. And because Jerry was trying to he was trying to step away, you know, And and and I didn't have the sort of tool kit to be the president of a public company. And I get that.

I was totally hip to that. Bob McKnight, who was a CEO of Quicksilver at the time and started Quicksilver of of the United States. UM, he was not able to UH to put this through to his h his board of directors to get them to accept it. But that's how I met Uh. The gentleman that Randy Harrold that we hired to replace me. Montial told me he had to step away at that time for health issues. The hiring of Randy Harold, it's the beginning of the

end for John at Ashworth. He didn't get it. He was trying to squeeze every last dollar out of everything and cheapen the product. And I was just you know, I was standing here and I had a big standoff, and the board for the most part, would side with him. That was a big argument that John had with UH, with the person that that was running in the company at the time. John was a creative guy. You just had to let him, like, hey, if he wants to show up for twelve thirty and sleep all morning, let

him do it. You know, let him come in whenever he wants his free spirit, let it. And we don't we leave him like punch the clock. It's kind of a bad thing about being in Ashworth is when you make up your mind, it's nothing's gonna change you. And it's not about the money, you know, it's about what you think is right. And sometimes that stubbornness. I mean, it doesn't look like John has that sometimes, so an out started looking in. But he's super competitive and super

wants to do it his way. And once he's decided that, I doubt you're gonna change his mind. I just remember John kind of parting ways quietly, and then Mary went and I think maybe Hank, who had a family, still was a rep. But that's about really all I know. It just kind of slowed down, and then I just kept wearing stuff. We all took it personally that uh, you know, the Astra family was no longer part of

that um. But John wanted to make it known to us that because they weren't part of it, not to you know, not to bail from it, that it was going to be such a great thing and a great thing for us. The company just um, you know, went in the direction where it went from trying to do the right thing to try to make a lot of money. Couldn't sleep at night. I was just so unhappy you know, believe it or not, that we're just on top of

the world on one hand, but on so happy. On the other you're a nine million dollar company ten years into it and you're you're you're miserable thirty seven years old. You know, it's like it's like stupid, isn't it when you think back? And I so I wish I you know, I was probably impatient. I probably should have dug my heels in more just stayed the course. And luckily for me, I basically got to the point where I just said, you know, I'm just gonna I didn't see it getting

any better. So, um, I ended up selling my stock at probably the highest value it ever was. So so that was fine, that was good. Um. And then this opportunity came up in Scotland. So this was middle of it was like June, and just like that, Elvis had left the building. It was hard to accept because I was just getting a little taste of being uh so in the middle of it with him. But he really wanted to go do something again big for the game, and he kind of cashed out and he went to Scotland.

And you know, there's incredible property at Archer Fields and uh, you know, the timing of it wasn't right. It ended up being this remarkable property that today is called the Renaissance Club. And but John had the vision and his vision was dead on. This is a property that abuts Mirfield. There were two courses that dated back into the eighteen hundreds and they had disappeared like after World War One. I think I was and and uh and I just was. I got caught by the bug, you know, the lynx bug.

But that kind of went sideway that that's a whole another story too. So one of the things that was in my office one day and he and he walks in with the Duke of Scotland into my office, introduced me dude, because you can reade braveheart, right the dude on Braveheart. But but but two hundred years later and he's bought property with this guy adjacent to Merefield over in Scotland, and he's become a member at going to

I think, and he's they put steaks up. I mean, he's he's like he likes it over there, and he's gonna build a couple of golf courses and I'm going, what he mean, came this close to pulling it off. I mean he those courses exist today, they've been you know, he just kind of cut he got. I think he got swindled. He's such a nice guy. I think he got swindled out of the money from the investment guys. You think he went into business with a guy that that owned a bunch of restaurants in Edinburgh and he

didn't come out of it on the good side. My brother didn't come out of the good side. John was brought back to Worth in two thousand seven, and it's old to Taylor made Adidas in two thousand nine, but John continued to think about the development of the brand links So, which he started with his nephew Jeff Cunningham

in two thousand So. I had to go back to Bob McKnight afterwards and said, hey, listen, you know, can I get that name back because you guys aren't going to do anything with it, and I think someday I might, I might build that into the into a brand. So um so he was He was kind enough to say, yeah, sure, here, So how good is that? Yeah? That was good. You get one hell of a story and you get the

centerpiece of your life. You know, now, yeah. Yeah. You know, when you look back, you think, well, had I've been very, very lucky. I've been around a lot of great people. And again the Ashford thing, I mean, there were so many great people. I mean, any any time anything like that happens, it's as much about the people as anything else. And and I'm sure it would have been great if

I would have stayed. But but I look at all the things that I've been able to do and be in touch with people and do with different projects, and you know, and then you just go, I go. I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't change that for the world either. We wouldn't be sitting here right now and Link Soul Shop and having a chance to communicate, you know, and promote golf and um goad Hill Park wouldn't be Hill Park wouldn't be here at least I wouldn't be Poliment.

In addition to building the brand of Linksoul, in two thousand thirteen, John Ashworth Rallied the City of Oceanside and saved Goat Hill Park from being developed by a billionaire. He and his team of tireless staff resurrected the golf course and the community spirit by revamping the look the field and the hang. They've added the playground, the kids course, and they host the annual Wishbone Brawl, a turn back the clock competition with tour pros playing per Simmon Woods,

with all proceeds going to charity. Some final reflections from the group. I think his vision was always different than people trying to make money. He wanted to do it all. He wanted it all to come together and uh and work out for everybody. So, I mean, look, you can the fashion part of it, the clothing part of it is just is probably the smallest part. What he did with that is what he's always done, is he brings what's cool in the real world to the golf world,

which is always way behind. And then he markets and talks about all the virtues and the greatest things about the game of golf, and he brings those two components together. Now with this golf course. Um, oh my my, My dad would be so proud of him for all that, you know, unbelievable. Are you proud of him? Oh? My god? Are you kidding? I probably don't tell him enough, but but yeah, I mean, you know, he's a producer. He brings, he brings everybody together. Everybody's involved, but he's the one

that is the lead dog. He's the one out front for sure. He's not afraid to make decisions the hard ones that and to keep moving. John changed the game

of life through clothing. Um, there's no doubt in my mind that after Ashworth came out and rolled for a few years and kept going, every golf shirt looked like an Ashworth shirt with just a different logo and so one of the things but I I always look back on is with John that that he could be a moodie star and would remind me of people that are kind of a shucks, you know, our clothing is doing great. He never was around, I mean, he never pushed him, so I don't even know if John Ashworth ever did

any media or anything. I mean, it was just you know, his name and it started out a different name and the logo became incredible. Everything just went wonderful. And it still is. It's still talked about, and I have so many friends that talked about John Ashworth. Where is he? What's he doing? And some of my very good friends know exactly what he's doing, and uh, it is amazing.

And John is a very very very good guy. And and really had the interests of John Cook and I when we started completely had our interests NIA exactly right, and Matt you said it right to that. John he loves the game so much and wants to preserve the game so much and has such an interest in where

the game is going with Goat Hill Park. And I remember the last time I played golf with John actually was at Madison Club and it had barely opened, and I took John down there and he insisted on walking and carrying his bag, a little a leather little Mackenzie walker bag. He had a wooden driver. Um. He just he was not gonna, you know, fall into that category of you know, where the game. He just wanted to

preserve it as long as he possibly could. He did that with our clothing, and like Fred said, he he wanted the best for Fred Couples and John Cook because we were early parts and we were a long time part of that that family. And that's what John Ashroth is. He's he's just a family guy and he loves the game of golf. Do you take the Goat Hills project. There's no one else on the planet that would take that on, No one, no one. And again This is not driven in any way by trying to cash in

on a huge financial opportunity. This is about John trying to spread a great message to get people involved in the sport to be inclusive. I mean, it's all He's just it's all the right things. It's just it's amazing. You know, we have the playground we can have you know, kid, you know, three year old four year old kids running around there playing for free, you know, with their parents,

and their parents are playing for free. Driving range where you see all all kinds everybody, you know, chicks with leggings and tank tops to you know, construction workers, you know, with boots on too, you know, yeah, Dean Wilson, Yeah, and you know with his dog. You know we we

allow dogs. People love bringing their dogs up there. So I guess my that's my point is that golf needs to be this holistic melting pot of people enjoying the outdoors with their friends, but still treating everyone with equal amounts of respect and playing the game with this reverence to the rules and you know, not not you know, not to like stiff rules, but just you know, pace of play and you know, be kind, be considerate, you know, fix your ball marks, you know, repair your dibots, you know,

things like that. And if I think, you know, there's not that many difficult things to figure out, you know. And and so if only, if only life was more like that, if you took the golf the golf guidelines of goat Hill Park and and and put them how timely is that conversation? How timely is that? Just in life in general? Just accept played by the the general guidelines, be kind, make par not war. Isn't that? Isn't that where it's all going? Yes, yes, I hope, So I hope,

So I really do hope. So I can't believe I almost forgot. But one thing we get from everybody is what is your favorite firepap? Well, I don't know if I really have one. I mean, I've been to your now, thank you for that. I appreciate that. And that was a great nat I remember, that was funny and and pretty cool. Um I you've inspired me to build one. Um that's right after this bathroom. Instead, we're gonna put a little gas one back here with a different patio.

So we're gonna have one. But I would say my kitchen table, we don't use it all the time. But I mean if the story, when the stories get wrong, that's where they roll. Whether it's just my little immediate family, or if it's neighbors or friends or whatnot. I would say our little dining room table, which is a cool spot. You know, I don't drink, so it's usually sitting around. We do have a fire bit right outside where I'm pointing. Um, it probably is there because it's supposed to be there.

It's just kind of a fixture in the in the yard. But most of the time, you know, when I get rolling like this, I really enjoy anywhere and it would be fun, you know, some marshmallows and hot dogs and talking with Cookie. And when he called me yesterday, I was really embarrassed that my phone was screwing up and we had to do it today. But I would talk about Ashworth all day long. And I I've really I've enjoyed this. It's made you know, made my day. Uh. And like I say, I have jeans that are thirty

three jeans in my closet. They must be cookie twenty five years old, so I can wear those to the fire fit and stay warm. I have a jacket, an Ashworth jacket that's twenty five years old. I I have stuff in my closet that I absolutely love, uh and it's just it's just I can't let go of it. I always go back to Spanish Bay, Matt. I mean that's you know, that's where you know, you finish around of golf and you know, playing in the tailor made

or the Callaway or the Spalding or whatever it's called. Um, go back to Spanish Bay and when it's the first thing we knew, we go to the bar, you grab a glass of red wine, you go out to the fire pit. That's it, and then you watch the you know, watch the bag piper come down to the path. And next thing you know, it's five o'clock. It's time for dinner and another glass of wine. So if that's what

we do. The fire pits are synonymous with Carmel and Double Beach, and in Spanish Bay you go on sensory overload. I believe when you're on the moner Ray Peninsula. I always felt that, and now I'm a resident, I still feel it. Everything feels a little better, you know, smells a little better. The view is the best in the world. Everything feels a little bit better. You're on sensory overload

and it's a good feeling. And you know, every every week I gotta go out on the road and do what I love to do, what I'm trained to do, and broadcast. But my fire pit is uh is my home. And I count my blessings for that, and I count my blessings that I've had people like John and like Freddie who have helped me kind of find my fire

pit in my life. You've set it before, but I'm gonna ask you again your favorite fire pit is see now, um, goat Hill is great, But I was thinking about it too, and I'm We've been using our fire pit at home a lot, and it's it's kind of grown on me. So I'm torn. We got the hatand in one, we got the Goat Hill Park one, and now we have the home one. So I got three. Good to have a good roster of fire pits. You don't want to

just don't, you know, diversify the fire pit portfolio. You fy the way, what a great name, by the way, because remember I forget the other name you remember. Remember you throw another name by me and I go, no, that's not it. The fence. I can't even remember what it was. I'll tell you. I'll tell you right now. It was so good I don't even remember it. It's a flush that went down like a dead goldfish, just down into the ocean. She gone awesome, Mashie, thank you, buddy. Yeah,

this is uh we I you know. Part of the vision was to have you as a regular uh you know, correspondent, you know, like in the in the field for the fire Pit. So this is the way it's working out. You know. You can pull me in when you're when you're in trouble. You can pull me in like a good big brother, like a good big brother. You know. Yeah, there we need absolutely. I'm here for you, buddy. Hi,

I'm at Janella, your host of the fire Pit. As a listener to this podcast, my friends John Ashworth and Jeff Cunningham at Link Soul in Oceanside, California are offering you a discount on all future orders of what I consider the best golf and lifestyle of pairl Whenever you go to link soul dot com, use promo code Matty. In the meantime, make park not war put another logo. Fine nobody here is getting time. This is the fire Pit hosted by Matt Janella. Thank you for listening to

The fire Pit. It's produced by Alex Upeggy. It's edited by Rex Lint. The theme song is by Joe Horowitz. Please rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts and we might track you down and send you one of our new Imperial Road Pats. Got a question, comment, or a story for us to track down, You can find me on Twitter at Matt Janella or on Instagram at

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