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This month, the DC universe gets a hard reboot and James Gunn is holding the jumper cables. Superman is here, soaring in the theaters with a new face, a new tone, and yes, a superpowered dog. David Corn sweat Don's the Cape as the latest Clark Kent, Rachel Brosnahn sharpens her pen as Lowis Lane, and Nicholas Hold polishes his billionaire complex as Lex Luthor. Is this the hopeful reset DC desperately needed, or just another CGI cram Cape flick with
a better playlist? Kyle, Rob, Tommy and Ocean are all here, so let's get those ex powered monkeys that type in.
This is the film board.
Ready, let's do it, Cronkite, Superman, Miss Lane, You've.
Come under a lot of fire for where some might it's a lot. Today the Secretary of Defense said he was going to look into your actions.
That's funny.
My actions I stopped a war. Maybe not maybe I did.
In effect, you illegally entered a country.
This is how you're going to be.
I'm not the one.
Being interviewed, Superman.
Did you consult with the president?
You seemingly acting as a representative.
Of the st.
And we're doing good.
I would question myself in the same situation and consider the consequences people were going to die.
Hey, buddy, i's up here.
When you get your car jumped, do you call it a heart reboot?
I just want to make sure it's an electric car. Oh, sure, that totally makes sense, and yes, power cycle.
Yeah, okay, okay, I just want to let's just I just want to rip off the band aid and do our opening thoughts. This is the thing that we do before we start talking about details. It's opening thoughts time. And I want to go to the person I'm least nervous about, because I know kind of where his general vibe is on these whole all these movies. That's Tommy. Tommy set the table.
I had a lot of fun with this movie. Overall, I do have problems with it. I think ultimately it is still not for me. But the things that I loved about it, I deeply loved and anything involving the dog was absolute, and there was a lot of stuff with the dog, the dog and Nathan Fillion. So overall, this gave me what these movies almost never do, which was a really good time. I was a little out fake things on fake things after a while, but we can get into that.
But overall, I'm very glad that I thought excellent.
Okay, Ocean, Ocean, my friend, what do you have to say about this?
I want to start off with the movie itself is entertaining. I love that we don't have an origin story, and while he is and he is already being Superman, I like the overall story, the look, and most of the acting. But I find that the comic book nerd in me has issues with the film. And however, I am going to be fair. I have always thought that Superman is like the Hulk and doesn't really work as the start of a movie. So the changes and weakening of him that is done in this movie maybe what it takes
for mass appeal. And so even though I yeah, so, even though I guess in some reason though I think that it is a good movie, I'm not sure if it's for me.
Oh my goodness. Okay, we've got to not sure if it's for you, Kyle l Yeah, I'm sorting with Ocean a little bit.
Is that and that.
I had a difficult time because it's sorting through all of the things with my nerd dumb because I was like, Okay, that character from this, and this is from that, and that's from here, but they're not doing this, they're doing that. I found myself in my head with the conspiracy wall behind me, sort of doing a lot of stuff. As as my family's like asking me what I thought of it. I was like, I'm still trying to figure out why they chose the engineer from Wild Storm to bring into this.
You know that I was still doing the mental math. But I've I like Tom I said, I found it wildly entertaining. I felt like we haven't seen a really hopeful, exciting film from from DC in a long time. Everything else has been an emotional slog or everybody's you know, dirty and covered and growling and covered in and luck and despair. To actually have bright shiny, to actually hit the silver age, which I know probably only Ocean understands,
was wildly exciting to me. But there's still the James Gun of it all and that's that's sort of where I hit a little bit. So I'm excited about this too because I kind of have avoided anyone else's take on this, So this would be the first time I've talked to anybody or read anybody about how they felt about this movie.
So let's get into it all, right, Rob. Since nineteen seventy eight, I have been in love. I have been in love with comic book movies. Okay, this is a movie comic book different now and I am still processing what I think of it. I don't know. Yeah, wow, And that is my take. I have never seen a movie in this genre where I feel like I picked up issue thirty six in a forty eight series run and I and I don't know. And the weird thing is,
is like Man of a Thousand faces watching this. There are some things that are so incredibly amazing, which we will talk about, and there are some things that I don't ever want to see again. Oh no. And there's a lot to discuss. And then there's the one big one, which I'm going to call the iron elephant in the room, which we will talk about. It's keeping code now. Oh you'll see you'll see off.
Okay, yeah, okay, I am last, and I have to tell you all of your uncertainty is flemoxing to me. I absolutely agree with Rob. That is the first time I've run into somebody else who says those words. It's a movie comic book and I found that from the moment we meet for he's taken in in the opening sequence, I thought, oh my god, this is a comic book movie's comic book movie. Like it really does feel like a motion comic in tone, in texture. It's a strange thing.
I can't quite put my fingers on what it is that makes this feel different. And I think that's the part I'm going to have to process. But overall, you guys, I legit loved this movie. I bring that kind of enthusiasm to it. I'm just gonna say, I'm having a hell of a summer already. I mean, we got F one, we had Dinosaurs. Movie was kind of crummy, but it was dinosaurs, and now we've got this hell of a summer. I am actually quite quite pleased with what they did.
And for the first time in our modern superhero movie era, I'm able to say I have to co rank Marvel and DC in my favorite comic book movies, because now we get to break up the Marvel dominance of my favorite comic book movies before this, DC didn't.
So are you including the Dark Knight in those?
No, of course not. Oh okay, that's no.
We never count. We never count.
The Dark Dark Knight's not counted in any of these. It is a standalone that's the Dark Knight universe. That's all, okay, all right, I'm also not including I'm also not including Batman, right, that's that's that doesn't get to play in this. No, the Batman. Sorry, you're absolutely right. No, So there we go. Let us do I mean kind of exhausted and also very excited. This is big energy, drink vibes, pete that you're getting right now. So let's just start a little
with a little bit of table setting. And I'd love it if Kyle and Ocean you could just just give us a sense. I went through and I did some of the best sort of documentation of where I think this movie comes from. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I do think it's important to know how grounded it is in lore.
Right, I'll set up a little bit and then I'll throw the ocean. Okay, okay, So there's a very very short version of this is when Superman premiered, that was what they considered the Bronze Age, and so that was Superman was just a strong guy who lifted cars and couldn't fly, and he mostly punched mobsters. That's pretty much all Superman was for the first couple of number of
years of his stuff. He actually tall building in the in the in the thing he like says it says, you know, fascist speaking bullet more powerful, able to leap tall buildings, tink about it, not flyover buildings. But no, like he was just a big, strong guy.
And so I just can I just take it and say how entertaining it is to watch Tom learn these things for the first time.
Like the actually number one is him just lifting a car of gangsters like that's yeah, that's what it was. And so for longest time that's and even the Superman TV show it's mostly just him punching mobsters like that's that's what the show is. And then once that had sort of had run its course, then we enter the Silver Age, and that's when things get weird and so and that is sort of for a lot of people. This is where Superman becomes Superman because suddenly now he's flying.
You have Kryptonite and Bepel the super Monkey and and Comet the Wonder Horse, and like all of this weirdness comes and this is where Crypto comes in. And then suddenly so now Superman is fighting aliens and he is he's pushing the earth out of out of alignment, like he is going way farther and way weirder than anything saving.
And we've never seen that depicted on screen until now, because they always just either have it's it's the regular world and there's a guy who's also super in it, or you get the they jump right over to the nineties and gritty stuff and suddenly it's Superman brought low, you know, like you know, in the in the muck fighting with Batman stuff too, And we've never gotten this sense of wonder and awe and like and weird stuff can happen, and there's heroes all over the place and
it's bright colored. And for that I give this movie high marks because no one's ever tried to do this before, and so it's hard to grade it because it's like you took such a big swing, and no one's ever been to this part of the Superman lore before.
Uh.
And it's so I give them points just for that. Uh and which so, and we're to see will people love it? Will they continue on? I don't know, but I'm so happy for the moment that Crypto and that first trailer comes run through Snow. I was like, We're in a whole new era now, and I don't know how people are gonna feel about it, but I'm excited.
Yeah, So what do you think? What do you think? Ocean?
Well, honestly, I am I'm happy that you were you went first, because that is literally you said everything that I've been thinking.
But better than what I was thinking about it.
So I honestly want to just encapsulate what you just said and didn't explain that to my friends and family because I've been trying to say this that they're returning him to the he's just a strong guy.
Uh.
They even getting over the shotgut first of like, well, how did they break his skin?
Why is he bleeding? What is this internal organs? You know?
Or like dislocating a shoulder. These are all things that Superman should not It shouldn't be able to do this to him, and so that they were bringing him back to that earlier phase where he isn't effectively the you know, immortal, immortal, omnipotent god of what you see in the modern times. And so it did take a bit for me to adjust back to think, you know, Superman that way and you know, honestly fighting off. Am I going to be defensive? Am I going to say, well, this is not my Superman?
You know?
And it's like, well, given the age and longevity and the amount of you know, fandom in love with the character, is there really anyone that you can say, oh, this is Superman on the mart you know where this So so that was what it was. It was part of it for me, And that's that's what I'm getting about with me, is I need to get over myself a little bit and and except that, hey, you know what, there are other versions of this Superman that can be good and I should see if I can get there.
I think that's a really interesting point because I mean generally they say, you're you're gonna be the biggest fan of whoever you saw when you were you know, thirteen, right, like, whoever that was is your Superman. What's really interesting about it is that I feel a greater affinity to this Superman, Like this is the Superman that feels more like my Superman than even Donner cut Superman right, like that that's such a weird, weird headspace for me to be in.
So this this silver Age really important. We get Lois Lane. I think that the most interesting sort of self libration of Leis Lane and what Rachel Brosnahan brings is the ten minute sequence of her interviewing Superman as Superman in the apartment, and a lot of that comes from Lewis Lane. Enemy of the People twenty nineteen, Greg Rucca, Mister Terrific is what Dunning surprise.
All time favorite characters. He He was okay in the arrow Verse, like they did, but they had him much more Nebuchy, much more like unsure of himself. I'm like, but that's not what mister Terrific is like. Jeff John's is one of the ones who took that character and really defined who he is. And he's never been seen until now, even in the Justice League Unlimited. Never really been seen until now, and I'm so happy that people
are going, who is mister Terrific. I was like, yes, but I want to go into the Google algorithms and see the spike of people like.
Googling finding mister Terrific for the first time. This all came from the Terrifics run twenty eighteen to twenty twenty. This Lex Luthor we have, just like Superman, we have a lot of luthers to choose from, right, uh, and this one, arguably most of it comes from Man of Alex Luthor Man of Steel two thousand and five.
Uh.
Brian Azarello. Luthor as a narcissistic genius who believes he's humanity's savior and that Superman is a dangerous alien threat. Been there a long time.
We're not.
We don't need to litigate the Superman is an immigrant thing that Reddit's done that. Let's just say it's been there from Jump everybody. So that's fine, settled science.
We don't need Yeah, I think this, I.
Think this Luthor is is also different and unique in another way where they return it back to the original reason that Luthor hated Superman and that it's stupid, right, you know, the whole the whole original one about like well Superman had what was it? They were in high school together and there was an accident and Superman made them bald. So that's why he hates.
Blue Office.
Yeah, it's the dumbest thing and that and so and then this one if they go back down to it's like, look, I'm envious of you. I want people to like me the way they like you. I mean, this is straight mean, girl's stupid reason for all.
He's a tech bro with a persecution complex exactly.
And so yeah, then see flaws, which I'd love to absolutely not.
And I guess that's part of where I think that it is an interesting duality where he has all this power and ability to do all of these horrible things, and then at the end of it, you're kind of like, hey, maybe you just need to have someone talk to you for a bit because your reasoning is kind of stupid, and so maybe we can redirect you as opposed to him being like some massive evil that needs to absolutely
be stopped. You're almost at the end kind of want to help them, And I've never felt that way about any of the Luther's where you're kind of like, oh, you know, you're just need a little bit of help, maybe need a friend.
That goes to Nicholas Holt, who I think.
Portrayed this very very much. Oh, he was great.
A couple of more just data points for the DNA of the movie Superman Peace on Earth was a late nineties one shot where we get yeah, right, where we got to see Superman confront issues bigger than you can punch, right, like he confronts world hunger and get sad because he runs to the limit of what he can do in
the world of doing good. It's kind of a ViBe's connection, but very much litigated back in that interview and the whole setup where he steps into world crises which are in no way to be compared to Russia invading Ukraine, in no way whatsoever we are not to speak of it. And the fact that Superman actually stopped that and actually created more problems right the limits of doing good. I
think that's just a really interesting vibe check. And finally we namecheck Maxwell Lord a number of times, and that's gonna be complicated. Yes, that is his a character in here. I'm assuming those who know Maxwell Lord tell me where you think this is going. I'm assuming they're setting him up as another billionaire industrialist right now, he's backer of the Justice Gang, but I expect big adaptation energy when.
We finally meet Maxwell Lord.
Well, yeah, we see him briefly in the in the montage towards the end. I think where it's going is Peacemaker season two, Like, I think we're going to see a lot more of him. It's obviously James James Gunn's brother is Seawn Gunn. That's the one who's playing him, So it would not be surprised.
To do that.
But yeah, I'm curious to see where they go with that too, because we've already had billionaire industrialists, super scientists LECs, and we already have Amanda Waller because we're keeping the same Amanda Waller from the previous incarnation. So where does Maxwell Lord fit between those two?
Yeah?
Because because what he has over other billionaires is he's also a meta human with mind control powers.
Like he was a at Yeah.
Right, so is he the one on the news that says liberals and conservatives can get and Erkin agreed that Lex Luthor sucks.
Yes, yes, yes, I was no love loss between Actual Lord and or Never but Never pals.
But historically he's a bad guy, yes, right, Like he's he's a bad guy. Well, well he was a politician, which I guess, so he's a bad guy, but he was.
He was sort of the.
Guy who like sort of made the JLA into a business for a while, and then later on they sort of took him more in the dark, like, oh, it turns out the reason people agreed to work with him is because he was mind controlling them that it was a red con.
But and he's he's Pedro Pascal from Wonder Woman eighty right, different character, different character.
Oh oh, thanks Rob, thanks for coming.
I was fine with it.
Okay, fine, okay, So that's that's generally said. Oh and of course the dog. Gunn said the dog was the starting point of the movie. He said, I wasn't going to direct it or write if I couldn't get the dog to work.
Uh.
And I am so deeply thankful that he got the dog to work, because I'm going to see this movie a thousands justification for Rob.
Yeah, it actually was. He was.
He was Maxwell Lorenzano, but they basically his his nickname was Max Lord. I never really put. I was just going to take put. I was just going to take it. You're right, points of it.
I am on my knee right.
We were all there. We all showed up May before and walked out going or probably stood up for a couch. It was streaming going exactly what happened. But that's the past.
Yes, I guess that does also say how much we were paying attention. Yes, exactly true.
Dog comes very much from the Justice League animated or Superman the animated series, and the Silver Age comics. Again, as Kyle said, when things got weird. Okay, so now let's turn our attention to the film.
Tom.
You've been You've been quiet because for reasons I imagine you haven't read the catalog.
I've none.
Okay, but now you're watching this movie. The movie starts and we get the setup. We get the setup that this is not, blessedly not an origin story. Did you feel like you were in good hands as this movie started? Did this movie exude confidence?
I'm of two minds because I was overjoyed that it was not an origin story, but I also really had trouble getting my footing for a while. We are told, in pretty fast moving text about an entire thing that happened off camera, about two fake countries and him doing something involving the fake countries and all of that just sort of being told and going like, go, I didn't. It took me a while to understand. And maybe it's because the first time you're seeing Superman, he's gotten the
s beat out of him and he's bleeding. I was just sort of like, I don't. I felt like I needed a primer to go into the movie. I also needed a primer on who is Lex Luthor in this world? Like is he have they been battling? Does he know that Lex Luthor is behind this? How does he know to go right to Lex Luthor's office and say give me the dog?
How did he know that? That was?
I just didn't know those things. I know who Lex Luthor is, but because we sped past the origin story, I just didn't know like is he famous? He's got an enormous building, but is he known for being a jerk? Is he elon musk?
What is he?
So it was just hard for me to get my footing for a while, and then I mean it took a while.
And then another thing when they.
Let me just ask though, because this is I think important, do you think that you that it's actually worse because you know a little. Can you put yourself in that space of knowing nothing. Do you think you could have gotten up to speed? Because that's what like most movies that we've seen, we know nothing and we just go for the ride. Part of that, like friction, feels like I'm trying to adapt this new thing to past knowledge and that's creating cognitive dissonance.
Maybe, yeah, especially except I feel like Lex Luthor has been so many different things at different times, Like I thought, has he ever? Has he always been like world famous?
You can't never say always with the DCA. Okay, yeah, I'm not sure, but he's been he's been.
Mister big deal for a long test, he's been mister big Deal.
So yeah, I think maybe that's a part of it.
But then also the movie really trusts either me or that just it has huge just go with it intentions, and eventually I did get it. But it also does some interesting things like how are they going to get into the Kingdom of Ice Solitude? And they just do and it's not explained for so long that it feels like a movie mistake. It feels like they just forgot about it and they're not going to go back. That's not a very satisfying way to tell a story. I
felt like that a little bit. I felt like the movie was rocketing so fast, even before an enormous black hole shows up in the middle of the world that I was that I was holding on and so I just was, Yeah, I was really holding on tight.
It was hard. For fifteen fifteen minutes in my wife turns to me and says, why does this Luther hate him so much? And she was in credit to my wife, she said this Luthor like she understood, Okay, this is a different superman, but she's like, why does he hate him so much? And I wonder how many people are going into this with, you know, and they don't have the lore and they don't even have the handle and they're like, yo, I'm still trying to unpack the meta
humans have been around for three hundred years. Yeah, yes, I can tell you that eleven year old was lost. Like wait a minute, you mean so the American Revolution still come back to that later and there were meta humans? What do you mean what?
Yeah, you're not supposed to think about it, Rob just even the question.
I think there was a synergy with the number three.
It was the three.
Yeah, that sound good. There was there was a three hundred you know, Frank Miller, that's it.
Yes, well it's coming out of the gate, like it's for me. There was already two sins. First of all, it's a bad title like Superman. It's just it's a bad title. Superman Legacy I thought was more interesting, but I guess they they were so lasted of Krypton would have made more sense. But like just calling it Superman it just seems so lazy to me. This is the new number ones Man, I guess, so the new Superman number one would have been a great title. That would
have been a boss anyway. And then and then text on screen. I was like, all of a sudden, the first thought I had was, hey, this is how Green Lantern started.
We just saw a movie together Kyle that year, the same thing and Dress a Part and Dress Perk Birth, which never recovered.
Like it was like, oh, already walking in like I don't like this, but I liked that it was sort of almost lyrical in terms.
Of yeah, like the style of the three three and then and then boom rights is soaperman dropping.
I was like, okay, all right, I'll give I'll give you half a half ason back for that one.
That's so interesting.
I feel like there's much more generous to it.
To your point, Pete, just to and I'm not going to keep talking about how I don't know what things are.
But I also had a little bit of that panic of am I supposed to know what Bavaria is? Right? Am? I supposed to know what these two places are? Have these existed? You know?
Like? Did I accidentally walk into the second Lord of the Rings thinking it was the first one?
So there was a little bit of a panic about that too.
So it was just I felt immediately lost, and I seeing it again, I would feel a lot more calm down about it, but I fell over my head in a movie that was trying to make it pretty easy for me, but it was hard for a while.
I I I get it, I do get it, and I think it's interesting to hear how the really the four of you sort of echo that sentiment and I did. That's not the movie I saw, And I think I was just so childlike and just lost in exuberance once it started that I was willing to wait for the for the resolve to how did they get into the Fortress of Solitude? Those kinds of questions, why did he hate so much well, I was able to wait to see that character resolution and and so I I hope you all see it again.
For maybe for the spoon fed, I mean maybe maybe. It's it's very much a problem for me and not the movie. That's my overall thesis is the failures for the movie have more to do with me than the movie itself.
For the for the nerdiest among us, did anyone not know why how it got in? Like as soon as they as ultramat else did not figure that because from the moment it open, if they're doing.
I had no idea.
Okay, yeah, no, it looked very Yes, I I agree with you, but I I agree with you in that it was very obvious what they were doing. But I am going to own up to that. I was at that point, uh, really trying to go with it. You know, the way the opening scene was everything with Crypto the dog dragging him along. We've got internal bleeding.
I was.
I started feeling like, Hey, I need to shut some of me off or I'm going to be hating on this movie. And I did end up shutting off part of me that I was like, how did they get in there?
He just walked in there? Like what is that you know?
So, you know, when the whole thing came round, I was just going to trust the movie to explain to me what was going on, because.
I found that I was.
But what I found I was trying to have effort to make sure that I did not get in the way of enjoying this movie because because I was initially, I found myself resisting, like, hey, this is not Superman and I needed to get away from that.
So I show you fight that from here. Oh wow, Make no mistake. I would say this when I started with my thing about movie comic books. I'm not saying I hate movie comic books. I want to learn to love them. I need to see this movie again, yeah, yeah, yeah, I need to see I need to watch the rest of Creature or Commandos, and I need to see Supergirl next year. Yes, absolutely, So there's more.
There's more analoguing everything of like looking for references and cameos and you know, like in jokes and that kind of stuff. And now I can go in, okay now that I'm no surprise. Now that I've seen all that, I can sort of go in and watch it again that way. Also, the Ultraman thing was a double swerve
because Ultraman is Superman's evil twin from another dimension. Yeah, and so when it was like they thought, they're like like, oh, they're doing an alternate reality Superman, which I'm like, this is that's a lot for this movie to hand up, Like also there's other dimension. Also there's another Superman. And then to have it be make us think that and then have it be bizarre was a nice like fanboy swerve on their part, So kudos.
Yes, it was.
I initially thought when they said Ultramn, I was thinking of the alternate universe ultimate and then when they do the Pocket Universe thing, which is which is.
Kind of bleed.
That you like, like it's part of the interesting thing of the motivations of left lu Thor. It's kind of like, look, so you're telling me you can do a pocket universe and you're still just messing around with trying to kill Superman.
But that was so.
Yeah, this guy is junk science. I was like, oh, yeah, sixth Smartest Man.
Yeah, uh excellent. Okay, let's transition to uh some more humanly fair Lowis Lane. Do you have Superman without Lois Lane? I don't think so. And this one we have Rachel Browsnahan. Uh, the one and only Miss masl How do you feel about this one? Was this your lowest lane?
She is the She is the definitive lowest lane for me, she was the best thing about the movie. Are we just saying live action live action? She is that? She is the definitive live action lowest lane. She's literally the best thing. It is brilliant. I want to see more of her, please, He's HBO Max do the lowest thing like an eight part series about and do and make the whole theme investigative journalism. In this universe you can have a whole playground with things to say about it.
Please more and more and more. She is absolutely amazing.
Actually that even that whole crew, like the Daily Clant crew, to actually give them something to do in the last thing as opposed to be rescued was great because they're still continuing to do journalism while Metropolis is literally being ripped in half. Concept dedication, right, and ITAs off to Jimmy Skyler Gazondo. Jimmy, what do we think about Jimmy Olsen? Uh, ladies man, ladies man, Yeah, exactly. That was that was a choice.
Yeah, that was the problem.
I had with that for me was not only a Okay, it's like he's always just this nerdy Superman hate Superman fan boy character, but and then they make him with ladies man, which is is funny, But then I was like, well, he's still looks like.
A Superman fan boy.
It's not like they you know, got some really handsome actor that's like you know, buff and Jack then you know chiseled, but you would think of that, right exactly, So then you're so then they're doing that, and then like even how Lois Lane reacts to him was kind of like, really, how are you doing this?
You with the audience are also like yeah, how is how are you doing this?
Yeah, and the two sort of interns or whatever like look at ever like, hey, check out Jimmy Wilson.
I was like really, yeah, So I will just say this, if you have a daughter of a teen or adult age and you talk to them about the current croppings of of male suitors, you would understand why they took that approim. Yeah, okay, really that's it because it's real, it's legit. Yeah.
Well, you know, he does have a pretty good track record in the comics though, like honestly, Yeah, well.
I I really like the actor this guy, Like I think it's Ono liquors, pizza book, smart vacation, a classic neo Rusty in the most recent vacation.
He's fantastic.
He's he's really really great and so, uh, I was seeing him as a familiar sort of modern young male side star right now is I thought it was really really charming.
I think you fit and.
I think that just leaning in that the the levels to which they leaned in on his lady's man appearance. Do wonders for that James Gun humor, Like James Gun thinks, probably the same thing we do. Like it's it's a weird choice, let's do it right, It's just funny.
So then Eve was Eve miss Testmacker. Yes, Okay, I didn't. I didn't see in the credits because they never say it on there.
I just wanted to, yeah, in the credit to give her last name.
Okay, right, yeah, Yeah, that was one of those things where like all the way through my wife was going come on, like the the status obsessed blonde who take with like some rando and taking selfies all the time, and then when it pays off that she's been secretly like hiding intel on all Lex's operations to blackmail him or whatever. It's so like, oh yeah, okay, all right, there's more going on here, and I appreciated that.
Okay, of all the things that you guys have said, you had trouble believing initially, did you believe that she intended to take those selfies with real information behind her? Because it took me a while to figure that out.
I think so, because she's she's actively weaponizing them. She doesn't send the wrong folder. No, I think sends all of them. Yeah, but she's she's not saying I'm going to send all of my selfies to this guy to get back at you.
I mean, yeah, she seemed to know what she was doing.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I think you're right. I definitely go right. I just didn't catch it, Like that was the thing I missed. I was like, this is dumb. That's a dumb joke that she just sends selfies. And I think that's what I'm supposed to feel, right, I'm the dummy, And and Kat Grant and Steve Lombard are there.
Yeah, I don't. I guess it's nice to have as his group, And.
Like, why why did you feel the need to have them like as part of the action. They don't really have a lot of funny things to say or do. Yeah, no, but you mean like the rest of the news, Well, yeah, exactly.
It's tough though, I mean, I mean you're you're touching on I think the problem with so many characters, so like here give you a great example. Anybody want to take a guess how many minutes is he on screen as Clark Kent? Oh, it's less, it's less.
But then also also here with that too, the question that gets even even with that is when the interview who is he right?
Well, Superman the whole time he's.
Yeah, not the whole time, he goes back and forth. He's just answering Superman. He's not dressed Superman, he is ken, He's just okay.
All the time, Superman paying to be Clark, Like go back that Quentin Tarantino.
Question, Yes, yes, right, Which is why the interview I think is so elegant. I think that scene is really well written and it allows corn Sweat, who I don't know very well, to bounce back and forth between these identities and frustration and rage and uncertainty and the entire ideology of just wanting to do good when it runs into Lois Lane saying maybe doing good every time isn't the right strategy. And I think that that was such
an efficient way to set up these characters. The other piece of it too, to Rob's point, for my money, having Superman on screen more gives all the other characters that I love more to do, because if we see a lot of Clark Kent, then it's Clark Kent doing journalism stuff, and I don't want to see that necessarily. He's a rube as a journalist. Let the journalists be journalists. And that's what I That's what I got in this movie though.
But I would say, though if you look back at even like a seventy eight Superman, the rube is is essential to the character development, of how characters interact and how you feel about them later on. And that's one of the things that's lacking for me in this film is that I don't understand. I don't fully understand the whole newsroom. I don't I have no understanding of his relationship with Perry White.
Yeah, Perry White got said at a string maybe third.
No, I mean, I mean, like at all, Like none of this like there's so many other characters going on, and for me, again, I'm struggling with that. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just did not connect with it. Well, yeah, because I was missing those essential relations and that's.
Where I think those are inessential. What this movie proves is that they're in essential.
I think that part of it was like having that conversation with him and Lois that early isolates Superman and like it's that's the whole thing is that he ends up being like, wow, nobody really gets this, nobody understands like like even he can't even Man's best friend. He's even a very good dog. I mean like he's he's a bad dog. He's a bad dog the most of the and so always he's just told no and you're wrong and you're bad, and he has to just that
that's the real battle he's fighting. The whole thing is like nobody thinks, nobody's on his side and he has to just be like, Okay, well that's this is this is where I'm going. This is what I'm doing. Even his own girlfriend like sort of turns on him in that that I.
Don't know that it turns on him. I don't know that she turns on. But then I think that and I think we're all grappling here with Then I was I was going to ask this as a question, but I feel now that you've already actually you all have answered it is that to me, the power of that interview was it helped set in this universe.
Okay, what is this superman? How does this one work?
You know, like because that that the dialogue and back and forth and then you know him really just kind of stressing but people would die, you know, as as a modern cynic, you're like, yes, but there's more because because I really feel that most of us would think more like Lois Lane, like hey yeah, there is more
to consider than people would die. But it actually that that conversation helps kind of level set how this superman views the world and it allows you to kind of at least for me especially, it allowed me to then Okay, I can now hop on the journey with this with this superman and then say, okay, now I understand what your worldview is and how you're seeing things, so then I can then uh, you know, follow along and go with you. The argument wasn't you shouldn't just always do good.
It's you. You don't get to decide what is good unilaterally. It was that seemed to be the main part of He just decided what the answer was and did it without consulting anyone. So the idea of saying that Superman needs a team does bring him into the fold and takes away from him just being a planet puncher that is too powerful and therefore not no fun, you know what I mean. If he's if he's just too powerful, if he can spend the world, the time goes backwards.
I think that was a thing that was right either way. But yeah, so I like that, and that he does need help from other people is an important thing to make him relatable and kind of interesting to watch.
Yeah, it's sorry.
He builds his support system as the movie goes, even though he's already well established as Superman by the pinally we meet him.
That the moment I mean, I think one of the most fun moments for me is when Guy steps up to Superman.
Right.
The fact that that no one on the you know, the Justice Gang is necessarily afraid of Superman, right, That's this movie does an able job of level setting our meta humans in a way that Superman may be a prime among peers, but not be necessarily because of power, but because of ideology. And that's useful. That's useful to start a frant in a new franchise. Yeah, he was
what a great choice. I like, I don't know if been Nathan Fillia fan, but what a great choice to not only have him as Guy Gardner, but have the classic Guy Gardner of life, like takes no crap from anybody, like, you know, just absolutely absolutely fearless to the point of reckless, and and and disliked, like he is not a fan like in terms of like the world and he could care less.
Uh.
Yeah, it was brilliant.
Just even in the that final fight of him, we see him do circles and cubes and walls up too and then just middle fingers to.
God.
That's just absolutely a fundamental understanding of that character.
That was so perfect.
You know, there was one question I had, I guess I'm gonna uh couches to Tommy, since you are the least comic book nerd amongst us, was there any did you have any issues with accepting that this green Land was either not not how Jordan, but was Guy Gardner and what's different or were you at any point in time were you watching this Green Lander and thinking, well, why is any acting like the other green Lanterns that I'm aware of, Because.
Yes, all of those things went through my head. And then and then at some point I think someone says the lanterns, yeah plural, and I was like, oh, there's more than one.
This is something I should ask Ocean about later. And then I forgot.
But yeah, I was sort of by that point. By the time he comes in, I was like, I'm not I don't know everything that's going on, but I just have to trust the system. And I love Nathan Fillia, and I thought what I liked him and his team and everything. So by that point I had given up and I better understood, Oh, Russia, Ukraine, No, it's not that, but I get it like everything else, that a lot of other things had fallen into place. So I was
much calmer by that point of the movie. But no, at first I didn't understand why he was a jerk, and I was like, I didn't see the Ryan Reynolds one, but I was like, he seems like a weird choice, and what's that haircut? And I didn't know that there was more than one lantern man, but now I do.
There's so many lantern really, this franchise is going to go. They're like, there's space cops and they're like, but there's just some couple that are desicated to Earth and get ready they have all different colors.
Oh my god. Oh yeah there's that too. Yeah, they're just just the green lanterns. Yeah yeah, uh okay.
So at this point, and I know, Tom, you've already said that you were kind of lost at the beginning, and I as I'm watching this, because you've got all of you are in my head as I'm watching this movie, and I thought, okay, so I'm watching along in so far, we've got flying things, there's Kaiju fight. I thought, I think Tom can kind of truck with this, and I think there's enough character stuff that I I think Tom
is going to be okay. And then we meet the Pocket dimension and I said, Tom's never going to watch a movie for me again.
Well, oh, come on, he's seen he's seen cabin in.
I was still on my back heels when I learned that there are portals because I didn't remember.
I didn't understand Flutethrow.
So I was like, do we know that portals exist, and I guess we do, because Lois just puts on the front page pocket to mention and no one goes.
They all to read the paper.
So again, I wasn't never quite grounded in what do people know? What don't they?
There was, really but all of that stuff in the fight with his clone, all of that stuff. There was one thing that I wish wasn't in the movie.
And it's so important to the movie that it's sacrilegious to say, but the idea of the fissure, this nonsense black hole river tearing a city apart. It's too big. It makes the movie too frenetic, and it's just too apocalyptic for me to see whole buildings falling against buildings like dominoes. That's old.
I don't know.
Maybe that's a James Gun thing. It's certainly a Snyder thing, and it's just too much for me to have an entire, huge building fall. But it's okay because that one lady in a Mazda captain gets there in time, holds it up.
But it's like, well they not everyone made it out of that building. I can't know.
They made a point that Metropolis had been evacuated well, they said, but everyone everybody that was basically telling the audience, hey, we're about to wreck up, because that's a very big thing in Man of Steel leading into Batman v. Superman is Superman does not care. He will punch people through buildings and knock buildings down. There are people those buildings,
and he does not care. And so this was deliberately set up as saying like, look, there, we're gonna blow some stuff up now, but it's okay because there are no civilians being hurt.
Maybe I'm just worried about the budget. It's not I can't stand it. It's too much construction. But but I will tell you so that you just hit on two points that I really wanted to make. Was Number one, the people in this movie. The citizens don't seem to be phased by you talked about that in Incredible Hall Mar We've been it too. I mean, they're they're not phased by.
Guy still like, well, can't close the coffee shop.
And it's like what exactly wait, which I which I don't understand. Okay, but but then here's the thing, and I'm gonna drop this. I'm gonna drop this here. If you're gonna make a live action movie, and I understand, and I understand this is not a comic book movie. I understand this is a movie comic book. When you do things that that change the law physics, I am
gonna get kind of taken out of it. And when you just made the point about he's holding up a building on its side for one car to escape, all I had was my my moment in Shazam where he catches a bus by the windshield, and I went, I'm out because guess what, Because here's the deal. If you want to do that kind of stuff, and I'm not saying you can't do that stuff, but then go ahead and make your animated into the superverse, because I don't need that in a In a live action movie.
Big bullets work like a big frazzle thing. Hitting a small hard thing is just gonna break the bit.
I mean, yeah, Like I got to tell you, that's one of my lowest points in this movie is that there's things here that I don't know why this is in a live action movie. No matter what the tone is, no matter what you're trying to do, you eject me out of it at that moment.
It's it's a sad scenario that we all actually know what it looks like when giant buildings fall, and I understood, right, like, that's that's the sad case I think that you're making, like I know what it looks like, and they don't fall like that. And when the guy hits it, when when Superman's holding it up, the bricks would fall around him and he would be they'd fly up and be fire, She'd be dead. But I was okay with it at
this point. I don't know why we need that anymore. Yeah, like right, we've gotten to the point now it's just like like, oh, yeah, buildings fall, cool, Like.
I see and I'm and I'm with you. I didn't expect to be on the side like I'm excited. Like, if you're not gonna if you're not even gonna be realistic, even to a modicum of realism, don't do it. Yeah, yeah, don't do it.
They I want to go back to the evacuation because I think that was more than than necessarily virtue signaling signaling against Snyder. What I think it does in the fabric of the movie is it makes the one brutal assassination more impactful. Right, There is a point where a guy is assassinated at gunpoint, and I didn't expect it in this movie. I didn't see it coming.
I don't.
I don't have strong feelings against it. Others have. I'm curious your take on it.
Let me tell you how I traumatized my daughter in two hours because she was she knows her superheroes, like she watches a bunch of the animated stuff and so she's she knows the characters and things too already, Like like Tommy was saying from the jump, was like, what who hit Superman? Why isn't down? Like why are they called the Justice Gang? I mean all they thinks.
I'm like, we're in a movie theater.
We can talk about all this on the car ride home. But when we got to the super Gulag, the the prison in there, she was out and she was horrified and she was covering her face and crying and like a Superman movie absolutely wrecked her. Like from that point, I was like, I was like, oh, I have made a terrible choice. Like I was like, do I take her to a Fantastic four? Do I take her to Superman?
I'm like, it's Superman, it's bright, it's got crypto and then we get to Siberia and we get to you know, playing Russian Roulette, and everyone's saying shit, and I was like, oh I, I didn't realize this. And so she ends up curled up on her mother's lap weeping during the final thing because she's seeing Superman you buried the lead time she gets a Superman being pounded into the ground. She was like, I don't want to be here anymore. And I was like, I've made a terrible choice.
James Gunn, nobody expected wait, wait, nobody expected an on screen headshot in this movie. You could have not put it on screen. And I don't care if you go back one hundred yards and you zoom out, there is an on screen headshot in this movie. That's so who was this movie not made for? Uh?
Sweet little eleven year old girls who just love Superman. Yeah, and you had promised her, don't worry. How nothing's gonna happen to that.
Man, your father. He's got a dog. The dog, the dog. Wait, wait and hold on. Do you want to know? Do you want to know something that's really screwed up? You've heard the stories that they cut the scene of Crypto getting punched in the face. So in test audiences there is a scene where he gets punched in the face. The crowd went no, and they cut it. This is this is I will see the floor. But yeah, this is the James gunn of it that that I have a problem with.
But isn't that just also another example of where like an and uh, when you're test me movies, even horror movies or anything else, you can kill all the people in the world, but the dog has to live. That's right, I know, But because because I would argue that if you're you have a problem with the with Crip getting punched, you should also have a problem with this headshot. Test audience should have reacted. You shouldn't have had the same
reaction to both. But if they don't, it's like you can kill people all you want to, but don't don't mess with that dog.
Yeah, okay, sorry, one dog got thrown like having her next to be just like no, of course, like why why is su prevented that river of death?
And it's like, I don't know, don't you know?
You should take her? You should show her the kingsman. That'll be a I made that the substance.
Yet we're gonna watch it tonight. That's good.
Oh and then then an old Boy tomorrow, so it'd be a good time.
Oh yeah, no, you're dead. She's done with you.
Okay, Well.
We've talked about Green Lantern, mister Terrific, Hawk Girl, and Metamorpho element what they call him element Man.
Yeah, they call it element Man, which is which is just like sort of like Man of Steel. That's his, that's his, Like it's Metamorpho the element Man.
What do we think of of how those last two? I think Hawk poor Hawk Girl get it got a little bit ripped a little bit. But when she's got when she dropped that to it, I was like, that's one hundred percent hot girl, Like, yeah, that was cool.
Wait until wait until they do the deep dive of that character.
Yeah, there's story. There is story.
If Tommy doesn't know. If Tommy doesn't know, yeah, oh, it's gonna get really interested.
When they said when they had a big deal about Super being an alien, I'm like, Hawk Girl's right there. I'm like, oh, I wonder which version they're going with.
It's it's no if you I don't know if you've seen this. The actress I forget her name, she did an interview where she talked about it's a combination. Okay, so here it's not spoilers or anything. The character is a character who takes their own life and then the spirit of the alien one assumes the body whoa So that's how they're doing it. And wait until I saw Ocean Ocean, just.
Like, yeah, I'm comfortable with alien hot girl, that's the one I'm that's that's that's my thought.
That's my thought.
It was, which which was my which also was my in the in the universe of the movie itself was part of my quibo was I was like, well, Hawkgir is an alien, so should and Luthor also hate her as much too, but but he does. But then then they have one scene where she you know that she's just sitting there hanging out reading reading what reading a journal in the in the Hall of Justice, and you know they don't have the wings. It's just so the
wings are attracted. So I was like, okay, well, maybe they chose the human one.
I didn't.
I couldn't tell what it was, but I knew that hawk Girl was an alien, and I was like, you know, there should be more of this. But also getting back to everything and This is where I was able to handle how during the Kaiju fight, everybody's doing selfies and the coffee shop miss stay open. When they opened with three hundred years of meta Humans, you know, then at that point, no one on screen would They wouldn't even know anyone or have any relatives or even no old relatives.
That would be like, what was it like before meta humans? So this would be a thing they see all the time. So I and I think that they're trying to give you a little glimpse of that in a moderate the comedic moment when what is it when the Justice Gang is fighting that light the space Imp. Yeah, the Space Imp and and you know, and Clark and sorry Superman and Lowest Decidest time to have a conversation about their relationship and that fight is going on in the background.
And I don't know about you guys, but I during the first during first off, during that whole scene, all I could think of was a baby group dancing around to and I wanted to you know, I wanted some electric light or orchestra playing. But but aside from that, I think that it was also the VVSB. Other deeper part of that was to show in this universe. Yes,
this is how it is. They've always because some meta humans have been around this long, this type of stuff would happen all the time, and so they would just like they would just be like, yeah, it's over there again.
I'm fine. Did you did you miss the scene when I was watching that, I'm thinking when he used to starts using the baseball bat on the alien, Yes, I was. I honestly, God thought that they were going to go to a shot of them in the battle and going, God, use a baseball bat like that again, so comic like that.
That just reinforces the movie comic books of it.
That just felt.
Obviously the Justice Gang shows up and immediately it is like go for the eyes and.
Like, could we just maybe just take it away?
Like yeah, oh apparently I didn't like that time all.
Right, Yeah he said that was ready.
We want to so you don't don't fill alone.
There's something thumb shape he hates to what I thought.
I do want to say, just on the performances Anthony Kerrigan, we don't get a chance to see Anthony Kerrigan really shine as Metamorpho in this movie, but I hope that he gets a chance to shine later. I loved him as Victors As in Gotham. I was a big fan of his performance in that show, and I am thrilled that he actually gets something, uh you know on the big screen like this. Uh and Eddie Gath as mister Terrific Uh for is it for all mankind?
Yeah, he's out his dandy.
His fight on the sand was my favorite that I've never seen the tea spears use as a weapon like that, and I thought that was imaginative and honest, honest though it did take me, there was a part of the greatness of that scene is it made me then want to say, Okay, well, can the rest of this movie?
Can we just follow him and just you know, like we'll just catch up with Superman at the end. Just let' let's see what mister Terrific does.
Yeah, I mean he gets a movie out of this, right, lay our money?
Maybe? Like yeah Justice Gang? Yeah, well I want that on this movie. Please tell me.
I know it's not done up, but I want Guy to win the argument I wanted to do Gang. I know it's not gonna happen, but I just, oh, that's part of me that wants it.
Well, I think we have not talked about it, and I want to just see you just as it as you know, does anyone have a problem with this Superman like honestly, like from the jump, I was like, this is Superman, Like I never once went he's doing a
nice job of acting. I mean, I know Rachel Bresnahan from from a bunch of things, but ye, like and I thought like, oh, she's doing a really good job as lowis, but like from not one time and the whole thing that I will like, he's doing a nice job of acting super Man.
Like he just was Superman. I loved him, and I think he has dimples of steel.
Yeah, who is a longtime DC writers said that, you know something very similar where he's just like this is He's like, this is the most Superman I've ever seen on screen.
And I need to bring up a list of all of the actors who have played Superman on screen. Let's see, we have the Dean Kine, of course, I think is the essential Superman. Oh yeah, obviously Christopher Reeve. And that's the thing I found watching corn Sweat in this movie. I didn't miss any of the other Superman that I liked, right, I didn't miss him. I didn't even think about him, And only now do I think, poor Henry Cavill.
I knowing, well, did you did you not like any of those portrayals at the time. You know, while I agree that I think David Cornsett did a good job, I'm I am hard pressed also to do when I think, especially from a movie standpoint, well, there wasn't one that I hated, Like, was there one? Is there anyone that's done this that you were like? I mean I even liked Randon Ralph. I get that the movie work, but what he was trying to do with like, I think he did a good job with what he was being handed.
Yeah, exactly, good news your Superman, bad news, you're a deadbeat dad? Do I have to right? No?
I absolutely liked him.
I liked him.
I liked Tyler Hackland was on is the Superman on Supergirl. He actually was a great Superman. Tom Welling a Smallville great Superman. Like they I think they all have it. But again I didn't miss any of them. Especially I was worried I was going to go in and say, I wish this was Henry Cavill, because he was He's he just sort of defines modern Superman. Face and now David corn sweat is it.
I get it. I get it. For this type of Superman, he is perfect, He's perfect edue Kenrick Cavill would be.
It would be hard to see Cavell if they switched it to this version, because the Henry Cavill is great for that. If we're going to make a brooding Superman, I mean, that's that's what I want my brooding Superman to look like, Like yeah, like that, yeah, yeah, yes.
For Nicholas Cage, I could still take a Nicholas Case. He like minutes he did five minutes seconds second.
I'd take a Nicholas Case Superman movie right now. Just yeah, I would take value alone.
The the score has been a bit of controversy. I think there are a lot of folks out there who have been writing spilling barrels of ink on. The idea for John Murphy and David Fleming comes from from Gunn who says you have to reinforce the Superman heritage by integrating John Williams themes into this.
And this was done much better in terms of incorporating it than Drisic Park Address World Rebirth, which had one of the most laugh out loud needle drops in the entire series of movies, so not once I would go like, oh, this is not the right time to use the Superman thing.
Yeah, no, I actually quite liked it. It's also not the first time that they did it. They also did it. I think I'm Man of Steel was it was the Brandon Ruth one routh one, and so.
It's not that that's supposed to be a sequel. I mean, that's supposed to be five, right, right.
I actually I've been listening to the score all morning, and I actually quite.
Oh that's fun.
I really like it. I find it it integrates very very well the original theme and some really modern orchestration. We get some real drums, we get some some electric guitar. We got a lot of stuff in there that I that I wouldn't have expected. So where do we stand on the score. It is as important, I think, to Superman. The music is as important to Superman as this William score to Star Wars from making the movie complete. And I'm curious if you felt that way that lived up to itself here.
I found it over used a little bit too much. You know, there's three I think there's three logo screen passes. In the film that might be one too many, right, And and I thought that the theme was overused a few times. It seemed like it was too much because you can't well again, because then what what you get is you get what happened in Jurassic World like it. No, it's not. I think it's great. I do want to
listen to it, because I don't. I think I was so focused on the craziness of what was happening, I didn't listen enough. And I do want to hear it.
And then of Chris James Dunn always with a good playlist, so yeah, didn't didn't go super heavy like Guardians, but just a couple of you know, songs placed along the way that I was like, well, this is a good choice, like even a lot of stuff I didn't know.
Oh did you know the was it the crab Jays crab Joys. I turns out I love that song. I've had that The Mighty crab Joy's theme is on the.
Written it's great. They're not real, right, okay? Because I thought you were about to say that, did you know they were real? And I was like, no, I thought they were made up.
No, they were it's a it's it's a it's a banger, anything else that you came into this conversation really really hoping you could rant about before we get to our ratio. Oh, Rob is raising his hand.
Rob, So I would like to say this. Here's the biggest reason. The biggest problem I had with this movie is twenty six years ago, I walked into a movie theater and I saw one of my favorite movies of all time. There is a print of it on the wall with the small character holding up the action comics number one. It is not the first time that Superman's
origin has been tweaked. Where in this movie spoiler, it has found out that his parents have sent him to the Earth to conquer it and to overtake it because we're what okay. And as soon as that happened, I sat there and went, oh, my god, guess what iron giant who aspires to be Superman? Superman is you? And that kind of blew my mind and I didn't know exactly how to take it. And again, not the first
time this has been done. I think Smallville waded into this, but it's the first time I've seen it on screen. And then later on in the movie, Superman has a conversation with his father that is literally almost word for word, the conversation Hogarth has with the Iron Giant literally almost word for work. And I went, and what's happened here? I don't know how to process that? And I'm honestly surprised there's not more people talking about this. It's literally
beat for beat. You choose who you want to be. You don't have to be a gun. You choose whoa was that that had to have been intentional and why, And I'm not sure I like any of that.
I know why, and I think Ocean does too, because that will be that will be drowned out by the people going, hey, that's Invincible, because that's what it is. They like honestly, Robert Kirkman like watch super Stuff. He's like, hey, what if Superman instead of it was actually set to invade and conquer the planet. And so that's Invincible's origin story, which now everybody's not watching in the animated series, and
now they're like, hey what if Superman? They were set down like, yes, not only has Invincible done this and years ago and there's aid serious about it, but also The Adventures of Superman, which is on HBO Max right now is also doing this story.
So when this shows up, I was the same thing.
Wow, that's like like this is not new or interesting or different, like, yeah, we we've seen this, so what that comes as a big thundering revelation. I was like, Oh, okay, so you just stole from the people who stole who were inspired by you.
Okay, cool, but okay, So then I and I will just say though, I went back and watched the Iron Giant scene and and I'm seriously shocked at how much the beat it matches beating It.
Could very well be could we that he you know, as a movie fan, he wants it's up to. But that's not what he was gonna be talking about. They're gonna going like, of course, what's.
Over on Amazon Prime They're doing the exact same story. Yeah that I guess. So, I mean, like for me, and this is this is the thing, This is like my clothes up on, this is I am blown away. Like again, I still can't believe lois how great she is. I can't believe how some of the performances are right and and like and there's little notes like one little thing that I actually noticed in the film. And then I and then I went online to check it out.
In the plaza of Metropolis there is the Metropolitan, the Metropolis Museum of Modern Art. You'll see it in the background. This exhibit is named after two of the guys who were the writers of the comic book where they introduced the phrase look up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Superman. The graphic on the wall promoting it is a pattern that has birds transforming into plants, and you'll notice it on the part where he hits the ground, so literally the scene is it's a bird.
Now.
I got to tell you that's brilliant and and and I am so fighting with myself even after this conversation. I don't I no further no what to make or think of this movie.
I have no idea, No, Kyle, did you have more you'd like to add to the right?
Said, I've said a lot, but yeah.
Essentially with what I I'm always done to is that James Gunn is one of those guys who if you go from where he started out, uh even and and you know you could, and please don't go read his tweets, he'd ask you not to from where he start out from trauma from you know, as being like a young punk like I'm gonna I'm gonna take up the establishment kind of guy and very I would say probably, he would even say maybe misogynistic, I mean just for it
and gross out stuff. To to where he is now is incredible, Like the the amount of work he has done and evolution has done, and the fact that like he is a much more put together, reserved and pleasant to be around, and you know it has like a
no BS policy on his sets and stuff too. Is is a great and I don't want to take anything away from that, but that guy's still in there, and every once in a while something comes out and I was like, oh, man, like every one of his movies is a little bit better, but there's always like it's like like twenty five percent where I'm like just why, just why.
Like even was.
Talking with a friend of mine. He was like he's like yeah, he's like someone will say something really poignant and then there'll be a fart joke and I'm like, yeah, there's all. It's like he's confident and then we'll pull back and just be like but also something weird, also something gross, also something inappropriate. You can go yeah, okay, and it's the percentage is getting smaller, but it's always there.
And there's all like and so like stuff in the in the gulag and like you know, Superman vomiting up pieces of engineering stuff too. It was like, yeah, okay, did we need this?
Like all right? So I like that.
There's certain things along the way where just going along and all of a sudden, it's just like all of a sudden like and I don't want to you know, this is the whole tour thing. And he wrote it, he directed it, he produced it, like and he wrote you know some of the music. I mean, like I I it's a lot of him, I know, but I
know a movie is a combination of things. But there's always something in from from Guardians one, two three, there's all these things that are not just like I wish you wouldn't dub it, but like god why And there's a couple of those things in here too that that make me feel that. And it's so that's why I'm sorry with Rob too, is like I'm I enjoyed it.
I'm glad that this is the big, hopeful, bright colored Superman that I wanted interact with a bunch of heroes great, and there's just something that's that I can't quite wrap my head around and fully embrace it in a way that I can like with a lot of the Marvel not all of Marvel movies, but a lot of mar movies, I can just go like, all all fantastic, all good, you're gonna love it, and then to go. But there's that butt just stays with me.
Let me let me poke at just one that I think probably stuck out for you, and h this will be it happened at the very end, This will this is a good time, at the very end of our conversation to poke at it. We have the teaser for Supergirl, and I'm very much looking forward to that movie. And I have a feeling that you and I don't agree about Supergirl's presence. When she shows up, she is drunk, she's you know, she's stumbling around, and her last line is thanks for watching my dog, bitch.
I was like, I did not have someone called superredda bitch.
I was like, yeah, okay, it's family. Family is complicated. I totally I was with it the whole time.
On once it's established that he was dog sitting, I was like this just made this movie so much better because it wasn't his dog. Of course, it wouldn't listen to him. It was never his dog. I was like, that was such a brilliant touch. And I've read the comic book that they're adapting for Supergirls, so when she shows up, I was like, oh, yeah, that's right out of superber World. Like it's it's like, that's actually they're doing exactly that, and I was fine with that. But yeah,
spredda bitch. As like the last as the movie ends, I was like, okay.
We were dying, dying in the theater.
And for the record, he doesn't say that he had not. He says it's a foster situation and in because that's my dog's mate and I forget in public.
All right, let's go around real quick and do what we do. This is our duty. We have to letterbox di letterbox dot com slash the next realitory you can find our HQ page out of five stars, half stars count for all of you rubes yourself, I'm I'm whole stars only, but that's okay. I don't look down on you guys at all.
Tommy, I am giving it three and a half with a heart, and with the chance that if I see it again, that it might actually move up more now that I know where to meet it and I understand the world better. Oceans comment of this has been going on for three hundred years. So yes, people are okay with portals and monsters, and that's why they keep eating yogurt when their city is being torn in half. And so you know, now that I understand the vibe more a little bit, I think maybe I would unders feel
better about that. I will path fast forward through some of the huge fisher stuff that's just the stuff that was just too big, too apocalyptic for me. But three and a half and a very happy to give it a heart because its heart is so in the right place and it's got a real neat message of people are people, it doesn't matter where they're from. People are people, and do your best all that and and journalism is important, yes.
It's the truth is important. I'm going to ask you. I want to ask you a question, and I think everybody should answer this question too, because I think it's an important one. This is the beginning of Peter Saffron and James Gunn's sort of leadership of DCU. They report directly to h I keep wanting to say Victor's as love. And so does your experience with Superman leave you feeling more optimistic or do you just not even care about upcoming entries into this universe?
Much more optimistic and I know you jerks are gonna make me see a budge of them so much much much more optimistic than anything that Zack Snyder has ever shared was never for me.
So this is, uh, the things you're looking up a great text for me. Kyle.
Oh, I'll be back to which Stars Stars? And then the thoughtful question, Yeah, I think I'm with Tommy. I like, I think three and a half Stars puts the right where it is. I think I could go up to fourth and now that I can go back into it not looking for what happens next in the connections and all that kind of stuff. I you know, I really
enjoyed it, you know, sobbing child and all. Uh, And there's a lot of stuff to do and I get to talk do like this where we get to sort of go around and talk about all these different things.
I mean we did.
There's all these other weird lore and stuff that they put in that I like, I'm like, oh, I see, you should do it at least in jokes and thing which I appreciated but didn't take away. I've seen those were they were so insular that they so dents with like like we're all referencing the same things, we're also the same things and leaving everyone out.
This was very much.
Designed, I think for the wider audience, for the wider world who just knows Christopher Reeves Superman and Tom Willing from Small Bill and that's it. That's like their entire thing, and they could just go into this and then having experienced I'm curious to see what how they will feel about it, and I would absolutely give it a heart.
Okay, and your level of optimism for future projects in the DCU, well, that's this.
Is interesting because like it's this the James Gun of it is still what it gets to me, Like I just watched the Fissie's a Piecepaper Game, which I think is brilliant and infuriating, Like there are there are moments where I was like, but why you know, like just little bits character moments or even dialogue or just the way they take things or the way he will take a character that exists and wipe away their entire thing just to put another personality and origin on. I was like,
why did you just make someone new? Or like that's so him at the Helm doesn't always make me because I hated Creature Commandos. I thought it was awful and that was pure him. And then we get to the Superman, which is sort of more sort of trying to be door connected with the audience and it worked. But I know the Creature Commando guys, is the same guy who's doing this, so I'm excited to see what happens when he's not the one writing and producing and directing everything.
Let's see how he is as a fige where it's just like I'm overseeing this, but this is your movie, You're directing it your you know, these are the writers, this is the thing. Let's see what happens when his hand isn't the one at the wheel mm hmm. And then we'll see and we'll see if this is a universe or if this is just the James gunj.
Yeah right ocean.
Okay, So from a rating standpoint, first off, I wanted to thank you guys for this conversation because I really feel now that anytime I'm unsure about a comic book move at to get Kylin Robbins like, hey, what's up. Let me let's let's talk about what's going on here, because it actually has improved my rating from from what I thought originally in the three stars to a four star movie.
I always had the movie always had a heart.
I was, I'm gonna watch this again, and so I have There are the two large quibbles that I that I have that I will echo, one of which was Tommy's the whole fissure with the pocket verse the thing there. My quip with it is different, Whereas I look at the whole thing, and I though when you look at how it ended, I was like, I don't think mister Terrific needs Superman to fix this.
Uh So then.
I was like, well, you know again, I was like, let's just have mister terrific. Let's follow him around and then at the end Superman I can show up and talk to Lex, right, you know, and that's and that's good. And then uh the U I guess the other thing, which I know we didn't talk about, but I'm just gonna shoehorn it in here. I hope that they in the future episodes of this Clark can' gets fired from the Daily Planet because they they have done a good
job of making the Daily Planet. They are real journalists doing really smart things and figuring things out there. Of consequence, we're going to do that, and that's great, but you cannot at the same time have all of this happen. And at no point in time someone says, hey, where's Clark?
Right?
You know, no one asked, and it was like kind of like, hey, you know, so, so it's like, you know, you're smart enough to figure out they're hooking up, which I like that. I love that when Perry, when Perry was like, hey, how long have they been getting together?
You know?
And then and then Olsen told them the right amount of time, like they both had figured out what was going on. I like that if you're going to make them that smart, they cannot be stupid enough to be under you know, have Clark Kent in.
Their lives as as as directly so anyway.
Where's where's Clark? Where's the worst journalist in the newsroom?
Yeah? Why would they want him around? Well, but he always gets Superman interviews.
But then anyway, so yeah, that that was my things that I think that they're too smart for that. And the as far as the future with the James Gunn thing, I think that well, I'm optimistic and I've always wanted DC to do well. I've never understood Marvel just cleans their clock consistently because DC has bigger characters.
I am.
I am an unabashed fan of the Marvel movies. But at the same time, DC should. This should be two juggernauts competing, not Marvel's great and DC has a bunch of junk. So I am optimistic and I'm hopeful that that they are able to maybe turn that James gun can be like the it was the initial Kevin Fighting where he's just overseeing phase one, two and three, you know, and that even those other people's movies, he has the
direction and he's doing the thing. And as long as and the way this looks, as long as they stay away from Batman, I think I'm going to be okay with it. Yeah, they need they If they start doing any of this stuff the Batman, I'll be like, okay, no, no, no, Batman needs to be like like the Batman. I want him gritty, I want him traumatized, I want him dark, you know, I want.
Him with a V Yes. Okay, Rob, Okay, I'm not kidding. You're all gonna cringe that I'm going to give Tommy this much credit. Okay, Okay, I was. I was absolutely gonna be a two point five, but literally, based on what Tommy said, I'm giving it a three. You changed. No, Actually, you're right, because don't even at my frustrations with it, you cannot deter people from the positive, the hopefulness, all of that. So absolutely three am I optimistic. Guess now I might be one of the few people I love
the Snyder verse. Loved that that was different, totally different from what the MCU was doing. I'm sad to see it go, but as all things, this too shall pass. Nothing great last forever, and so I am happy to see what comes next. Like I am. You know what, I am absolutely optimistic. As much as I want to see Supergirl, I really am much more curious about Face and I want to see what happens with that, and
that will be a whole different conversation. But yes, totally optimistic because I love to see where the stories take us, even if they're frustrating. It's funny as to watch your giant everything.
You'll always have your Iron Giant. I am thrilled that this movie exists. I'm thrilled with the performances, and even there was a pocket dimension, and I didn't have a problem with the pocket dimension. Mostly I loved the characters they chose. They were not the most weird fringe characters, and I expected James Gunn to introduce more of the fringiest of fringe characters in the catalog, and he didn't
be played right right like this. This goes back to the conversation we had episode one of the Marvel movie minute You've got to earn your Wizards and grounded Iron Man made room for Doctor Strange. Well, you know what, the Marvel movies have carried a lot of water for DC today, DC, and I think being able to give us this more grounded Superman is going to set the table for great movies to come. My favorite is going
to be Green Lantern. Absolutely, I cannot wait to see what they do with the Green Lantern core, and so give me more of that.
I'm home. Give me more of that stuff, and I am absolutely home.
I am going to buck your middling reviews and give it five stars. I am a child and I love it. Oh, five stars and a heart Suckers. We'll see if that goes down later, but I'm here to advocate. This was a bonus. This was an extra. We just got excited and needed to talk about it, and that's this. Podcasting is our love language. So we're still doing Thursday Murder Club on the film Board next month. And that's all the news we have that's fit to print. Thank you guys.
Kyle, what do you want to pitch?
Am I working? I think no, everything is still lockdown, top secret. Oh you're still in secret mode. So yeah, so the Fortress of Solitude, kid, Yeah, got it, got it, locked up? New projects to come, Rob's I'm just glad you're podcasting with us. Man came out of retirement.
Thanks. I am working a little project on LinkedIn, of all places, So if you're not on LinkedIn, get on there and then follow me, search me out and we'll see how the rest of the Sumers.
Kind of mystery happens on LinkedIn. Yeah, okay, Ocean, I'm glad you're back.
Man.
What are you doing on Adrian Moment?
Well, yes, age Moment or a partner Jim, Jim and I discussed sports movies our next episode, will be a twenty sixteenth movie Race, which is the Jesse Owens story about the nineteen thirty six Olympics in Berlin. So to keep things light in our next episode, we decided to talk about sports, racism and Nazis.
Oh what a trilogy.
Okay, Tom, what are you doing recording podcasts with you?
We're wrapping up season ten of All the Feelings colon Adulting, and we have two more episodes and then we'll have solved the world.
You're welcome, adult wannabes. That's what we're doing.
And also we've got some other new shows that are out and about craft and Chaos is a show.
That I'm doing with Kyle.
I don't know why he didn't want to plug it, but I'll do it.
It's great.
We're having a great time with our friends, author Ryan Dalton and TV writer producer Misty Stinnett. And it's about creativity when the world's on fire and we're doing great.
We're figuring out how to do that too. Things can be really weird.
Things are really weird, and you know there's a whole horse subtext that you just have to know going in. Don't feel like you have.
To figure it out. It's just there.
Yeah, we're learning to and I launched. Actually, as we record this, yesterday, the first episode of my new show Headstone, a show about human legacy, is out because you know, a well lived life deserves a great last line.
That's the pitch.
Love it, and so we asked the question, what do you want on your headstone? I'm having a really great time with that show too, so check it out everything at true.
Story dot FM.
Thank you everybody for hanging out and we will see you next time.
Meeting adjourned