The Fifth Hour: Doug Krikorian, the Real "Winning Time"

a very Happy Friday to you. Is another edition of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller and Danny g Radio And we welcome into the podcast do Joe, So you know the drill. Normally on Friday Friday Friday, we like to bring somebody into the podcast that I know, someone who I am a fan of. And this week we are in for a special. If you're familiar with the Los Angeles media scene, uh you know who this guy is. But if not, you're gonna learn all about him. One

of the more interesting characters in media. He a longtime, longtime writer, beat writer columnists Between the by Lines his autobiography. He wrote a while back there about his career in sports journalism. But Doug chric Corean is the name he hosted a very popular radio show in Los Angeles. Co hosted the McDonald Douglas Show on the airwaves around l

A for a number of years. But his bread and butter as a sportswriter at the Los Angeles Herald Examiner, the Long Beach Press Telegram, and back in the days when being a sportswriter was a massive, massive undertaking, newspapers dominated the landscape. It's not like today with the Internet and social media and all that stuff. And Uh, Doug's the perfect guy to get on because we're gonna talk to Doug about all his career and all that stuff.

But he also knows Jerry West better than just about anybody. And we can get into the documentary that has been going on, the docuseeries, not a documentary, the docuseriies about the Lakers. Also, I've got to get in to some point here with Doug Wilt Chamberlain and the bigger than life stories about Wilt, and Doug traveled with the Lakers and was around Wilt new Wilt very well for a number of years. So we'll get into some of that

and uh and get into it. So right now, let's give it up for the man, the myth, the legend Doug Chrick Coreyan, who joins us now on the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller and Danny g And Doug, I've known you a long time. I'm a massive fan. Why have we not had you on this podcast? Suit of bad job by me? Dog? I don't know, but it has been a cultural derivation for me to talk to you. You know, man, how much I like you. I patterned my radio career after you. You got to remember that

you were my favorite. And uh, of course I get that much older than you. I don't ain't sure when I started were you in radio? Back know, I was a listener. I listened to you and the Big Nasty

Joe McDonald. You guys said you dominated the afternoon drive airwaves in l A. And then, uh, it was one of you, one of the people that when I got to know you, I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool you and and Big Joe and those guys, because because I listened to you, and then I got into the business, and then you guys kind of became my friends and stuff. So that was pretty cool early on. And well, you hold let me tell you something that I've never told you. This.

You hold the distinction of being one of the few people in sports talk radio and in sports the big nasty never he liked you. He really genuine like you. I don't know how you did it. You and him for buddies. Yeah, we we had a few radio beefs, a couple of but we we did actually we had a couple of radios. But but Joe and I became you know, we were good friends, and we had a little radio like a radio beef at a M eleven fifty. But then we but then we were good to go.

Then we were we were we were, we were great and uh, you know, miss Joe, Uh, why can you imagine? You know, for those who don't know that didn't hear Doug hosted the number one afternoon show. You know how many years did that show run? Doug? You and Camp we were there three years, and then at eestn we were there five years. And then of course we were a k Max and you know, we did some stuff out here in Long Beach, but we were together off

and on for thirteen years, really solid for nine years. Yeah, And what made that show so good? What do you think the secret? You know, I think the uniqueness of our show. Ben at the time time was and started. I was a lifetime sportswriter in Los Angeles. You know, I go back to ninety governor Lakers in the series against the Celtics. I mean, I was a beat writer for the Lakers and Will Chamber and Jerry Western Eljam

Baylor were there. And Joe went to every sporting event as you know, every Godger game, every Clipper game, every Laker game, and every Ram game, Raider game. Joe was working in radio. So I think because of you've got a lot of inside stuff because of us. Because I was part of the sporting senior all those years, I knew everyone, you know. I was very good friends with Al Davis and John Wood and I mean you name it, and I knew him because I covered them all. You know. Yeah,

I think that was the uniqueness. A lot of people that get in sports talk radio did not have that kind of background where we were actually when we were working, like for instance, when I was on the radio at that time. Now it's not so unique. Today's wortswriters are in it, but not a lot of sportswriters when I started, there was no sport. Very few they start hiring them then, but very few sportswriters were on the air in those days.

You know, I think maybe Krnheiser was. I'm not even sure back but that's what made us unique in Los Angeles because when you listen to us, we knew what what we were talking about because we have so much inside information. Well, and and Big Joe like ran the Dodger locker room. I it was unreal like everybody, the Dodgers and the Lakers. I mean he was there every single day. I didn't go to very Dodger game. I

went to a lot of Laker games. I definitely, you know, in New Time and everything else, I definitely did that. But I think what made that it was a free flowing as you know operation. We used to rip the hell out of me. I mean, what other radio show where the here co host RiPPs you all the time and that's okay. We used to have an argument and my a moron or my imbecile? Amight, Indio, what's one

I might today? Joe? You know, it was all tongue in cheek, but a tongue of cheek on the square with Joe, as you know, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And then you know you think about oh boy, you know, Joe passed away a few years ago, but the what he would have been doing with some of the stuff that's happened Doug the last five years or so? Ho canoli man the world? The world we live in now, she's the GM of the Lakers. Would be assassinated, verbally, persecuted,

assassinated and viscerated. I can use one word after another and describing what happened. Yeah so so so do let me ask you, now, you were a very successful sports writer, the beat guy columnists for a long time. What was what was easier for it was the radio? Is it right? In the column? What what did you find writing a column? You know my nature. I'm a writer, you know, I literally thousands and thousands of stories and thousands of sports columns.

I mean, I became a sports comics in nineteen Thrillo gave me the column that I think it was seventy three, seventy two or seventy three. And you know, I was the beat writer for a long time. I covered the Lakers, I covered the Rams for seven seasons during the seventies, and I coduced basketball there in the Walton years Sydney which years, and you know, and did all the boxing. But I became an actual Pool Time columnist in nineteen

seventy eight met On. That's all I wrote were columns said, although although I took ironically you get to kick out this Ben and nineteen eighty five, I believe who was it was. I think Spencer left the Laker beat at the Hero examuter to go to the post, or somebody left and I took over the Laker beat. I wrote the column still, but I took over the Laker beat midway through the season that they finally exercised the Boston Celtic ghost member. They beat the Celtics in n and

I covered that team the second half of the season. Okay, so when you writing, how many columns do you think you wrote in your time there, I would say literally, I mean, but this way, Harold, I was writing four column vote vote papers, Prestogram and Harold four columns a year, and yeah, right, uh, I'm sorry, of course, Yeah, you just got to do the math. I can't do it, Offen, but literally, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. I

got it. At the end of the Long Beach prest Long Beach Press Telegram, I did a cityside column once a week. Also in the last two years era, which I really enjoyed, I got into hard news. I did a lot of stuff on cityside, and I recently did that with the late and great Long Beach Report, which I did one story. It was more political, you know,

knocking the local mayor and stuff like that. Yeah. So the nice thing about that column, even though it was very political, I never mentioned Republican, I never mentioned Democrat. I never mentioned Trump, I never mentioned Biden. I just mentioned the local people. And you know that I wasn't left when your right winger, I wrote what I thought was fair. Anyway, that was a different time of my life. Well, and also we'll get to that, but I'm gonna go right in the column, like did how often did you

get writers? How often did you get writer's block? We just didn't have anything. Never you never got it. You never you want something. Then when you write columns, and there's certain you know, obviously I would interview a lot of people, but there's a lot of columns you right off the top of your head, I think, well, like I'd wake up on a for instance, at the Press

telling you am, I'd wake up on a Monday. They wanted a Tuesday, and maybe I didn't go off the Dodger Stadium on uh Sunday or Anaheim Stadium, or maybe I didn't cover a RAM game, or they weren't in town. You know, this is early they left the ninety four. Of course, the last six to the last parts of

my career, they weren't even in town. But I would come up with stories on my own, you know, and I think some of the best columns I ever wrote those kinds of stories, just making them up on the you know, just I get an idea and expanded into a column and I thought it would be pretty good. And a lot of times I would I would do a local piece. I'd go for a walk around and just do a mood piece and be not a lot of my sports columns were non sports, and people love

those kind of columns. Yeah. And when you when you were doing you worked in the newspaper business, and the hay kind of the heyday. I don't know the hey day, but one of the hey days of the newspapers when you when you see what happened to your industry, and I see it in radio. Radio is a much different medium now than it was when I started. The way the business is run. But you you worked at some huge news papers, you had a lot of influence, and

now you look at newspapers today, it's just not the same. Though. What's your perspective on what you've seen in your lifetime with a newspaper business. That's a great question. And then first off, I go back so far the first five years of my career. I sent my columns in her stories in like, for instance, from the Forum a Western Union Perdie Parristein would be there in the Western Union machine and I've given my piece of paper and it'd send it Western Union. When I was in Philadelphia, a

guy uh would send it Western Union. That's the way it was sent in those days. When you're on the road, you do a Western Union. But what is so dramatically different, and it really is when you were sportswriter, especially at the Harold Los Angeles Hero examer which was a very prestigious sports section. The guy named Bud Fellow was sports in there when I got there, and we were the top sports of the people in town. Read the Harold Examber's sports You're too young to remember, but it was

a very good sports page. Melvin Derst to call him. You know, Alan Mallaman was. You know, they had so many good writers, Lyle Spencer, I could go on on Tom Singer, Dick Miller, Bob Hunter. You know, we had a lot of good people. They're very good people. And sportswriters were treated like a king's I mean because in those days when I got there, in you know, before I I apprenticed at uh Cameriell Daily News and the Pacific Colisadium Post and Hilario Das Register, and then I

got into the Hero Exameter. But they were treated on my gosh. I would go into Little Joe's at North Broadway, and Andie Stagnon, who was the bartender, never paid for anything. Ernie tasked at the Gaylor. I'll go have a drink or dinner. You you know, they would take care of sportswriters. There was there was prest There was prestige, right, There was a lot of because you didn't get see people

read the newspapers in those days. Your only other outlet was TV and and the TV sports tasters would beyond for three minutes so you'd get your big info. You know, it's three minutes at eleven o'clock a night or something like that. But remember you couldn't wait to get the paper the next morning. And the Harold Examiner. When I first got there, was an afternoon paper, but then it became a morning paper and they would read, you know,

what we wrote. They hinged on every word. I mean when I was with the Rams for seven years and I was a little different sportswriter from the normal guy. I injected my humor into my game stories, not the humor, my opinions, you know, and some humor of course, but but and writers in those days, a lot of them didn't do that. And I took very strong stands. Writers didn't do that in those days. In factors, some pettiness among my colleagues that would even talk to me on rampchips,

because you know I would. I used to rip a guy named Chuck Knox how conservative he was, and you know, people just didn't do that in those days. Well I did, you know, Yeah, you're too young to remember, Chuck. I'm not. I remember you. I remember you guys talking about my show. You called them what ground shuck was it was as nickname. One other thing that Ben that was dramatically different. When I covered the Lakers like I was a twenty four

year old kid. Can you imagine this? Here I am from a little place, a little farm community, a ten miles south of President or the southern Pacific town that started because of the railroad and stopped there. And you know this and that my graduating class was sixty five people in Bud frill Will assigned me to the Lakers. The Laker beat writer and left or whatever wasn't there and I took it over here. I'm traveling. But in those days, the writers traveled with the team. Do you

understand what I'm saying? Traveled with the teams. THEE and the Times didn't travel that year during the regular season. They didn't send their beat writer, who I think was Dan after that year or Mouth Florence. I think it was Dan Affton. So so I would be with the team and would fly first class. Here I am flying first class. My first trip. Chick Heer and took me to every player on the team, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West. I played hearts. You love this story is a great story.

On the first time I ever was on a Laker road trip, I played hearts. I was the fourth member. I knew how to play Hearts World Chamber, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and me played Hearts together. Can you imagine what a twenty four year old wide eyed in my my boyhood idol was Elgin Baylor? Right, even doing the ticks he used to do with us. You remember they go to the side and everything, Well, you wouldn't twitchy and I. I loved Elgin and he was a great He and I used to play after that. We played

a lot of Gin together. I never beat him. He was a great gin player. He and Chick were very good players. But here I am with the team. So you really get to know. Guys don't do that today? Are you kidding? Do you think they travel with the team. The sportswriters they'll do that, and the players don't want it, right, the players today don't want anything. They don't like it. No, No, in those days, you get you got to build the players. I mean, I knew Will Chamber. He didn't have anything

going on. He called me doug'scot to dinner. Okay, fine, you know that it would we were that close. I'll walk around and walking around with him in the multiple one time we're walking, that's when you know, well, you have to understand Will, I loved it. He didn't talk to me the last ten years of his life. He got mad at me. But that's another story I might tell you later. But we were walking. You gotta understand. Will was very liberal with the truth, you know, hyperple

levers his middle name. I could tell you a story after story with Will. He said, yeah, you look like it. In those days, I was kind of waiting with the I was a big guy with to Tim. You know, they were not the guy you see now. I was. I was within heavy weights and this. You said, yeah, I've been spressed six hundred one time, and I knew

he didn't come on. I mean, I know, wait, you know I worked out when I was in college, and for four years I worked out three three hours every other day, was trying to get big and all that stuff. And I know, wait, with six hundred pounds, you gotta be kidding. At that time, not very few many men in the world. Because Ben Spress six other towns and that was a great exaggeration as his claimed to have

gotten to bed with. Yeah. I was going to ask you about that though, because that's the great urban legend. But she started. He wrote in his book that he he betted twenty thousand women there. You traveled with you travel with him? Yeah. We were in New York one one year, my second year of the team. He calls you, guy, said, well, what are you doing? Well? Well do everyone in New York? He called me. I thought, just called the dinner. We went out to dinner a big galloners, some damn place.

You know, I will say this, but you know, out with Will at nighttime, I mean I could the point after Boston one time. It really was. I mean, people gravitated to him. My god, he was a complete you know. He told me the great story in Cincinnati. He went to a mattenee in the afternoon, walked in and some ladies screens. She thought, you know, I mean, think of it. You see it walk what was a very imposing figure. He has seven one it boks in it. He had

the longest slaves ever. Jabar doesn't have those long lads. We'll have those long you remember you said, did I did at the form and some woman's screams she got scared. He said, yeah, that's that's happened to me a couple of times. He gets scared because he liked to go to the Mattenees. You know, he didn't see movies and stuff. I mean, I could go on and on about wild stories.

What other story A great story. It was during the series, the nineteen NBA series, Alan alamand me and Wilter got off the plane and we were in the cab going to the you know, the hotel there. I can't remember what hotel it was. But he saw a couple really nice look and they were college girls and tells the cap stuff I want to get out, goes over there, talks to him, and then he comes back. He says, since I was it going, that's all right? So I think it was that night is when I went to

the point after I saw him. I wasn't with him when I went there. The point after it was. There used to be one out in the San Fernando Valley. It was a very popular disco, you know, nice for kids that you know, not teenagers. You know, there's a nightclub. We're in there and we're sitting I see well, I said, well, what happened those two girls? I got him this afternoon

and eastful? I mean, come on, they were both eighteen or night He said, oh yeah, but but he was in dery you just took it with it, like Jerry said, take it with a shrug. You know it was a dry Hello, Yeah, what do you what do you mean? No? I never saw Will play in person. I've heard amazing I've seen the numbers, I've seen video of him. But was he would be a dominant Yeah? He was a great player, great rebounded, really a good rebounding, great player.

But the problem with Will, and there was a reason why I only won two World championships. There were times that he would hide. He just did not have the show we say competitive passion, even Shaquille. I mean I saw it. I saw it the first half of Game seven of the Celtics and Lakers. I was there. I saw it. First Halmlet happened. Russell out played him like you can't believe. They built that eight team for whatever. The big lead at half time and they caught up

this or that. But Will was not very good that first half. And then I guess he got this legage when he came out and BBK should have put a back in, but he didn't. Then they lost by what

one point or two points? Made death? You know you shot You're the perfect person as this because lately some of the chatter shows have been going back and forth and and just besmirching the name of all these guys that you covered back in the old days with the Lakers and saying just the NBA in general, like these guys weren't real, they couldn't do anything today and today's NBA and you've you're the perfect guy because you you covered those teams and now you you still I'm assuming

you still watch the NBA occasionally there. How, how accurate are those people slamming the old NBA? Uh? What do you think about comparing the different eras and how the sports evolved? Well, I think, wait a minute, the players today athletically there was nothing like that. Yeah, all these teams, they had a lot of big, slow, white guys and they also unfortunately had a quota on a lot of

those teams. You know that there'll only be so many African Americans even when I covered in not the Celtics, but there were certain teams that you knew but the great players could have played today, a lot of players would have been very mediocre, probably wouldn't even make it. I mean, just looked at every team, Anthony Edwards and Maranthum. You just go every team has a stud now, yeah, I mean there's just so many better athletes, and the athletes are better, and the teams would be better. But

I'll tell you something. That good Laker team with will let's put this way, no one's going out rebounded. They would not rebound them today. You know they might be to my guest, Jim McMillan was six five and news the other forward on that team. Uh who was the other forward on the great Laker team of UHL was gone. Yeah. But like the other thing too, about the you know, the different eras and all that you think about Judge that, Yeah, I mean the nineteen seventy Yankees would get slaughtered today.

Come on, a lot of the guys were five ft tan. But the best player route to play today. But I gotta tell you, though, that I do kind of respect the grit that guys had to have back in the olders when they had jobs. They had other jobs because they weren't making enough money in their sport and they had to do They had to become a construction worker, drive a truck, or sell cars or something like that.

Can you imagine Can you imagine today? Though, like if the players today, I had to go out and get a job in the off season because they needed to pay their books. Yeah, it lose their minds. It was totally different then. I mean, do you think guys a guy like Elgin Bayder, I doubt if he lifted weights. Fabulous player, I'm telling you Eli in his prime, people before he heard his knees couldn't hold his only games anybody. I mean, there were guys Maurice Stokes who died very young.

He could have been. There were Bill Russell would have been a very very good player today. To leave it was quick. He could get down there. You know, he couldn't shoot, but boy was here. They talked about this Williams and Boston Mark Williams or whatever's day. Men. Russell would have been great today defensively and he blew out of play. They're best players in those days, the Oscar Robertson's, Jerry West and those kind of walk. Prasiers and Well

Walton came later, but they were great players. But there were I'd say the NBA that I covered sixty eight, uh, you know, starting in sixty eight, I'd say two thirds of players couldn't play today. I hate to say that that they couldn't because it maybe they could play better if they had the condition. Do you understand maybe need to stop these guys too, but there were two there were so many guys. Uh, Larry Siegfried maybe to play today,

I doubt it. You know. Well the other thing too also, as I just popped in my the late great Tommy Hawkins, who I knew a little bit, but you and you know him. I know Tommy was around forever. But okay,

there you go, perfect. So you Tommy told me a story one time in the early days when when the Lakers moved from Minneapolis, they were so desperate to get people to go to these games at the sports Arena that during the day sometimes they would drive around on a flat, flatbed truck around l A with a megaphone. That's that's insane, dog. You you think about what how that started and what it is like today. It's like a cult around around the Lakers these days, and what

it was. It's insane. When you in this in sixty eight, when you started covering the team, what was the what was the buzz about where the Lakers? Did they own the town? It seemed like it was the Dodger town up until the Lakers took over at some point, maybe the eighties, but what was that dynamic light? Yeah, the Dodgers still were living off you know, the nineteen sixties. What they won three World championships? I think, Yeah, but there were no good anymore. Remember sixty nine? Have any teams?

They were no good. They got a little better than seventy one. They want a penance, I believe seventy two, seventy four they got the worst series. Yeah, but the Lakers started when they got will they start selling out the form they get and you know, an exciting team and it was a good. Then you gotta help me. Who's the foreword on that seventy gonna? I'm gonna look it up now, nineteen what I haven't Yeah, all right, I'm looking at up nuts right now. I mean it's

gotta be a very good player that I forget. The seventy two Lakers we're looking at? Is that what we're looking at? Yeah? Good Rich and West for the back. All right? So here, let me give me the right you got Keith Lee roy ellis happy, happy Hairston. There you go, Yeah, you're right happy here. Number fifty two Doug in the program, Number fifty two. But number one,

you are there, Yeah, joined crazy and not talking. Let me one of the reasons I to have you on here this crazy story which has been bouncing around this week about a guy that you know very well, Jerry West, and this documentary that he filed the lawsuit over this. I have not full disclosure. I have not watched the documentary. I have all my producers are huge Laker guys dog and they tell me, they tell me these things, and

I've read stories about it. I've not actually seen it first, but apparently it's very demeaning to the legacy of Jerry Red Jerry West. I saw you wrote a column on I saw it on Facebook. You know that's where it was, and you explained in great detail there. But for the listener who doesn't have access to that dog on a scale of one at ten, obviously, Jerry's filed the lawsuit, But where where is this ad on the scale of

anger here? For for Jerry and minus minus chian minus Chan's complete faith news, complete disinformation, complete, I mean the portrayal of Jerry West as a public persecution of one of the nice, nicest, grounded, amiable superstars in the history of sports. I know you've probably met him. I'm sure you met him at the forum because you're a nicer guy. I guarantee it's very nice to you. He's nice to everyone. And to portray him in this manner, uh, you know,

he's not. I talked to Jerry all the time. I mean I talked to him twice yesterday. And you know he's going to be at my I'm going to be inducted into this Hall of Fame on on Sunday, the National Boxing Hall of Fame. Jerry, of course he's coming, Jerry, Jerry. Let me tell you about Jerry West, my friendship going back fifty four years. I'll tell you. Of course I am to him. He went to my wife's second wife's, my wedding with her, and then he went to her

funeral unfortunately she passed away, you know, very young. And then he also to my retirement party. He came to my book signing when I had my book. He has been the most loyal and loyal friend that I have. That's how loyal. If I asked Jerry to do something, he does it for me. He's always done it, and I'll do anything for him. This this guy is the nicest guy, and for them to do what they're doing, you know, portraying him as some sort of intemperate boso.

I mean, come on, they have him just among other things, they have him screaming and a pussing at Jerry Buss. He would never do that. That's not Jerry. Yes, he has his moves stuff like that, but I mean, Jerry what has been overlooked. He's had his big impact on the success of the Lakers that anyone in its history think of this. Then who do you think, uh during the showtime years, who supplied all the chemistry players? Just

answer the question? Who you want to keep going about? Cooper, Jerry West, he he made sure James Worthy, I like an idiot, campaigned in the Herald, you gotta get dominic. Wil becons he's the most exciting player, and Jerry tried to explain he wouldn't hit in. Of course, he wouldn't have pit in. You know, he wouldn't be James Worthy. He took worthy instead of dominant. And then that uh Bus was on the threshold, as we all know, after

they lost to Sampson and the Houston Rockets. I remember that I do that last that shot they were going to make the big trade for I think it was was an agent that Marcot Wire. I think it was Marcot Wire or market Market I think yet it was market markt Wire. And the trade was made. I wrote it in the Herold Examiner. It was a big story in the Herald Lakers. The trade worthy environed Stott, you know, the to the to the Mavericks for this and that

and the only reason it was made. He went to Jerry Busts and I'm resigning, you can't make this trade.

And of course he didn't make the trade. And they went on the win the They beat the Pistons in and the Detroit uh and the Celtics here whenever they said I was, I think the Celtics in the Pistons and then they lost to the Pistons and they came back and went, yeah, yeah, they lost the Pistons because pat Riley took the damn team over to Santa Barbara after they were twelve and oh in the playoffs Byron Scott tour Hamstring, don't you remember that? And the magic

Johnson went out the second day. Yeah. Well, that was the best Laker team I ever saw. Was the eighty nine team that that team was really good, really good. Yeah, so was Old, but it was better than the team

to beat the Pistons the year before. But you know the thing about the thing about Kareem, which is, and I've never understood this sty the most dominating, the most unstoppable shot and I've ever seen in my life and any any athletic endeavor the sky hook, and no one other than Kareem has been able to really consistently pull

that shot off. You think if you could take a young player and teach them that move when they're thirteen or fourteen, by the time they got to the NBA and the rest of the wy'd be unstoppable that no one could do. You know, Kareem, here's something that's gonna stunt you. What I said and I had, I did not have a good relation personal action ship with Kareem. I'm the one that in the Harrow Examber when Year

said they should trade trade him. You know, after he got one rebound in the game, and that was all because it wouldn't working on his hook, wouldn't force to do that. But it was a soft you know, he didn't have that book shot. And then he developed it. He realized and he's the most underrated player in the history of basketball. A lot of people say he's the greatest player. He might be, and look what he did accomplish. Six World champion ships, three college championships at u c L.

A great player, great competitor, this all said. You know, he was very He was kind of borish with the media. He wasn't you know, although he would always answer my questions when once he was on talk radio. He came down to the studios when I was at ESPN, and he actually we talked about it and he said, Val used to kissed me off all the time, and this and that. But he was you know, I'll say one thing.

He always answered my questions and he was always civil with me, even though he hated he despised me a couple of he's become even more grumpy as he's gotten older. Here it's great player, though, you can't take that away. And he's he's the best center in NBA history history irrespectable. Will I love Will, But Kareem was a savage competitor. You know who could have been the best center if he stayed healthy. Bill Well, he was unbelievable. He had one of yeah, two healthy years and that was it.

All right? So do the greatest the great player debate? Doug. You've covered the NBA fifty years, You've been around the NBA. I'm a Jordan guy something. Where you who's the greatest player that you've seen in your life in the NBA? The greatest player I've seen in my life? Well, you know, Jordan was very good. I mean, I mean obviously as the greatest ever. You know, I'll tell you who's really

was good and we don't. I mean Kobe was pretty good too, sure, yea very very good, better offensively that Jordan. Not defensively, but offensively. How do you ever stopped Kobe? Couldn't stop him, No one could stop him. Yeah, I guess you have to get the Jordan Obo. There's a case to be made for Kareem. Kareem was a great player. I mean, how do you not for you he got six World championships. Yeah, you could say Jordan never lost, but you know, I think the Acres faced much sterner

competition and they were also hurt by injuries. A lot of injuries happened with the Lakers, you know, key like losing to the Pistons that year in four straight please. Then how were they going to beat the Pistons without Byron Scott and Magic Johnson? You answer the question, that's what I'm gonna have. All that could have been another championship for the Magic, which would have given him six. You know, Jordan was very fortunate, but not I have

to face great Celtic teams when they were good. He was very I'm serious he was. Those Celtic teams were great, you know that. Yeah, and the expansion area he was very ports I mean he faced that, you know, Portland Trailblazers, Seattle SuperSonics and Utah was good. But you know, Utah please the Lakers when king they never beat the ladies for sure. Yeah, I guess you would have to give up the Jordan. But I'll tell you there's it's close.

It's very close. Yeah. Alright, So the all these years as a sportswriter, dog, biggest jerk athlete you ever covered, the guy that just was a pain in the behind, who would it be? Well, for a time we became friends later on that you know. I don't know if you know my history with a linebacker named Isaiah Robertson. He tried to beat me up at it was big headlines in the Times l A Times back then. In in an afternoon practice, he went after me, had a helmet his hand and he was tackled by Ray Malavas.

And I can't remember the other guy that Larry Mark. What was the upset? What was the upset? What did you write about? What he was upset about? Rich Saul? That choked him out in the locker room. And I found out about it, and I made a terrible mistake. I told sportswriter from the l A Times named Ted Green up in the press box the previous RAM game, that about it. I told him about it, and then he called me. I had a cap in the l A. Times. I was. I always went to the Ram practice in

those days. They practiced blair Field on Long Beach, you know the baseball field there there during the season. They practiced there during the week. And he says, I'm going to write it in Tomorrow's l A Times. You know other people know about this, Doug, and I think he d s and me. I mean, he just wanted to write it, so that forced me to right. I wasn't

going to write it. I mean I I I Isaiah cussed me out every time I went out there, he called me an s ob this and I took people said why didn't you just well, I'll tell you that story in a second. So I went up to Isaiah and I says, is there any truth to the rumor that you were choked out by? You know? He went crazy,

crazy and took off his helmet and came after me. Yeah, and Malabay, see a guy named Larry Marshall tackle to hit me over the head of that damn helmt he killed me and uh Ken Burney writer then working for the l A Daily News. Remember he recovered the Dodgers. Remember Kenny Gerney, I do I do he just retired. He's discovering. I think he's with the MLB right now. Yeah, I think I think he just retired. I think, yeah, I think. And he said, you look faster than Carl

lewis you. I've never seen a guy run that past and I did. I mean it was a general and I got the hell awaight, and Carol rosen Blue said get the hell out of here. And Rosenblue, of course the owner, and he was a friend of mine too. I had two people at the end of their lives not talk to me Wilt Chamberlain for ten years and Carol Rosen, who was very nice, very nice. In fact, my first year on the beat, he bought bought me

some Gucci loafers, blue loafers, the big joke. I don't know why I saw, I love your loafers and nixt Island living. I have no today if you if I said that, oh my god, you're taking that. You know? He sent it to my apartment in uh in Belmont Shore was with my first wife. These beautiful loafers, I mean those days, they probably cost seventy eight bucks. My god, and that was a running choke of oh yeah, they were beautiful. I couldn't have pulled but that guy. And

there's a follow up to that story. Okay, New Year's Eve the night uh it was right after or before I can't remember. They believed that it was before they got beat in the playoff game by the Cowboys. I think of seventy eight, I can't remember. I think they did by then. Malavasi was the coach. No, no, Chuck, Chuck might have still been the was he the coach?

Was he probably still was the coach. Okay, Okay, so I'm in a place called Bobby mcvies here in Long Beach and I walked in and there's Isaiah New Year's He he chased me out, and they say that the bodyguards, they said they had to get him, like the guys that though. The security guys grabbed and I ran out to my car and got out of it. But we made up. Later he saw me at a reunion and we shook hands and he actually came into the ESDM studios with Joe. We laughed about it. You know that's

years yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure sure. Unfortunately he died I think in a car accident. That's too bad. So before I get you out of here, Doug, I kept you a wife. But one of my other favorite Doug recorin stories when Tommy was sorta he he was the GM briefly of the Dodgers, and and this is hilarious. I still laugh when I think about this. So as I remember the story, Doug Tommy when he took over his I think it was the interim GM of the Dodgers.

He had told the media, right, whatever you want, say whatever you want about me, I don't mind, I'm fine whatever. Two days later, I'm in the I'm in the press box at Dodger Stadium, in the press dining room there and Tommy comes. It was a Sunday. He comes storming into the press box. Where's Pricry and where's dog? And he was furious with you. I don't know what you wrote, Doug. I don't know what that was all, but he, Tommy was on a mission to find you because of something

that you had written. Don't you even even remember? I think that was the Bill Russell story that I wrote that Russell said that it was Russell the manager. Yeah, Bill Russell was the manager. Yeah, yeah, that's that was it. He got piste off about that that I wrote that how could you write that? This? And that? Wouldn't talk to me for two years. I don't you remember when I used to go on that that Sports Writers show. Remember they used to have it, Yeah yeah, yeah, the

Round the Round Table. And I looked at always they have me on a lot, and now look at Tommy, please talk to me. And finally, at the two thousand World Series between the invested Yankees, I saw Tommy and Rod Dado I think it was Tipty Third Street walking in New York, and I said, Rod, tap Tommy to talk to me. He said, what do you mean, because rod Dado loved me, you know, you'd always say this that take a lot of story. Short. We shook hands,

but we didn't talk. You know, we didn't talk at all, you know, for for two years, two years, right, Yeah, and I was his biggest booster. My god, I wrote one one. Uh you know, funny. It was always kind of a funny call up with Tommy. Yeah it was. It was wild. But anyway, we'll talk to listen. I love you to death. Dog. You You're a great guy, and thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. And you have nothing, you have nothing to wrote you you are going to Boxing Hall of Fame. But you said, right,

what did it tell me? More? Yeah? This this? Yeah, this satur National Boxing Hall of Fame. I'm the recipient of Howie Steinler Award. I always was a farmer, owner of the Main Street Jam. He was murdered in nineteen seventies seven by a couple of guys that they don't know. They never found him, and his daughter picked me to be the recipient. And because I'm a recipient of that award, I'm automatically inducted to the Hall of Famous. My fourth

Hall of Fame I've been in. This is what happens when you be seventy eight years old, started getting in, you get start getting in. What give me the list of all? You said? Boxing Hall of Fame? What other hall of fames is dr it's just small ones. Armenian Hall of Fame, half Armenian at the Giant. I'm in the California State Hall of Fame, National Boxing Hall of Fame and the San Pedro Hall of Fame. The athletic call it the San Pedro one they have. Actually, it's

like a Hollywood star out there. My name's out there. Oh that's cool, that's nice. That's for those would be my fourth one and uh, Jerry West will be at our table. What about the nice? What about the PHIL Trainees Hall of Fame? Do they have a PHIL Trainees Hall of Fame? You gotta should training trade Bil training. Well, there's a gym in Long Beach. I want the Boys

and Girls Club gym. There's a PHIL training gym. Yeah, Well for those who don't know, for those the fellows who know, the PHIL training is famous locational Long Beach. I've only been there a couple of times. But Doug and Joe. You guys all, I mean you ran the place. Yeah. And I'm gonna tell you, Ben, don't don't make me endure years of cultural depervation by not having me on your great show. Oh no, I love yes, I love you. You haven't called me and it's very hurtful. I mean,

you're my friend. I patterned my career. Now. I promised that we'll we'll have you on again, and I do thinking have a a great rest of your Daniel. I congratulations on the Boxing Hall of Fame. That is I did not know that. That is awesome and and thank you. We'll talk to you and thank you dog. I love you, Ben, thank you, thank you all.