Red Lights & Sirens

now that it does. We are in the air everywhere eight days a week because four hours are not enough. We thank you for finding the podcast. We thank you for supporting the podcast. We started this, we did it one day a week, and then the numbers were good, so we kept doing it. Now it's it's Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. This is our Friday podcast, a spinoff of the Overnight radio show. But we can go third rail on my end. We can hit the third rail on

this because you know, it's just a podcast. We can talk about things that we don't normally talk about on the radio show, which is just hardcore sports, and this is a in theory a sports podcast. But we delve into some other issues in real life, and back again from west of the four oh five David gascon making his way there. He is there, I am loud and proud. Um is this is this an uncomfortable day for you?

Because if you've downloaded the podcast, chances are you know who we're gonna have a conversation with a so so David. That's assuming that most of the people can read the description. Wow, I mean already. I mean we're not even a minute in the print. The prints fine. So do you often listen to or do you often read the description when you click on a podcast, because that sure it's held out. That's a good question. I well, I subscribe to some

but interview podcast. Yeah, like I I listened like Joe Rogan. Sometimes I'll I don't listen to all. I actually don't listen to that often. But if I'm looking for some audio content, I want to hear an interview Ali or who's Rogan got on? And then if it's someone the description is good and it kind of gets me going, I'll listen. If it's someone I've never heard of in the description sucks, I'm not gonna listen fair enough. So, but yeah, but generally, Yeah, the podcast I subscribed to,

you know, they're Automa. They're on my phone. I just listened to them and when I'm wandering around doing my sojourn around around town here. But yeah, we're gonna have today. Uh. The chief for those that don't know, Uh, David's father was a big cohuna at the l a p D and and his most famous for the the time with

the O. J. Simpson case. He was the spokesperson for the l A P. He was out in front on that and he was on television globally and what he spent over thirty years right with the Los Angeles Police Department years in the department, man and and how wild is this though? He was he was known worldwide for what went down O J. And there was no social media at the time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, do you think about what it would have been like now?

And it but it was. I don't think it would be much different because you could not get bigger than

the O. J. Simpson case. I mean, even with social media it made it would have made it a little different, But I don't know because and the reason why I bring that up is because of what's gone on recently with the whole election scandal, is that you have people that are making these you have these affidavits that are that are signed by these individuals and sworn testimony, and you have news agencies out there right now either one docks in these people or two resurface seeing their past

life like what they've done in their teenage years and the early early twenties, and they basically try to out these people. And I think more so now than ever, is that if you had police officers that were involved in this investigation and or the d a's office, I think you'd have more agencies looking to these individuals and try to discredit them if they felt like O. J

was in the right not in the wrong. So the media spin what is easier to spin stuff in the age of social media, because if you're on the right side of big tech, you don't get censored. If you're on the other side of big tech, you get censors. So it's hard to get your message out because so many people there's a whole different You're you're opening up Pandora's box because that's a whole different conversation which we've had. We've had that that people take social media way too seriously.

And it's the matrix. It's it's not really on that. But we're getting sidetracked here. But the the o J. If you're a young person and you're you weren't around for o J. I was just in the early part of my career when the trial was going on. I remember I was still in college when the murder happened. And then I got out and I started working in San Diego and I was covering the Dodgers in the in l A. And I remember I was living in

Orange County. I was driving into l A. And I drive in that one on one corridor through downtown and they had put up every parking lot right across next to the and I said every There was two massive parking lots right near the one on one when you make the the the interchange with the the one with the one tent like you know l A Freeways if you're not in l A. But anyway, so I'm driving there and they put up these giants, and I mean they were like three or four stories of um, what's

what's the term I'm looking for? You know, those things like painters stand on they're kind of like fake fake I'm trying to I don't know what the term for that is. But they so they could have the shot of downtown behind them. Yeah you know that, yeah, so,

and and they were international media. It was wild a panoramic view, right, yeah, exactly wanted the panoracs, so they put up like planks of wood and so that the reporters could stand and so behind them you saw the skyline of l A. And they were reporting on O J and UM. And I remember going to cover Dodging games and during the trial part of it, and it

was people. There was a buzz in the crowd. This was in the days without social media, and there were I remember one night the Dodgers, I think they were in the playoffs, uh, either playing Atlanta or Cincinnati, and a couple of guys showed up. They were they had been on the Tonight Show. They were Judge Edo and

personators and the crowd David. The crowd went wild. They everyone wanted to be and wanted to be around these two knuckleheads and were dressed like Judge Edo, and uh, it was pretty It was just it was crazy and your your dad and just a central figure in that. So I'm excited to talking. We're gonna get to that. We have to start with other stuff. They'll guess, gone, right, we have to start with all this stuff before we

get to the meet with the Chief. Yes, yeah, alright, So I think it's it's it's ideal with Mr West of the four oh five all the time. Uh so, why don't we welcome in the chief here, David gascon Man, who was in the l APD for thirty two years. And I get to work with his son, your son here on a weekly basis. So when you found out your child was going to become a sportscaster, did you consider holding some kind of intervention? Uh not, in the

least you did not, Now, Uh why not? Because sportscasting, if you were to rank like careers, sportscasting is kind of on the back the backside of that. Well actually no, you know, oh look, he could be a politicians would be worse, that would Yeah? And and who taught your son how to park? His mother? Have you seen some of the photo photograp chief? Have you seen? Because uh, now I have. I don't go in right now because

of what's been going on this year. But when I when I go into the studio and I'd park and on nights your son was working there. Uh, he would park in every kind of direction imaginable rather than in the actual space. And I have photographic proof that this happened multiple occasions. And and I blame you. Oh no, not me, not me. I'm one of those guys that says, shalt not but they would just say, look, details, details. Now, I'm here to take the point, you know, I'm here

to get involved in the important market to car Nah. Well, I'm happy to talk to you because I I support law enforced, my wife's and one operator. It's been a not a good year here chief for the you know, people taking shots at the least and all that. And I guess we get serious now, And uh, you're you

haven't had a career in law enforcement. When you sit back and look at what's been going on here with the media and open season on local police departments, like what what from your perspective, Like give me your thoughts on on how this has all gone down this last year or so. Well, I think it's disgusting, somewhat predictable and been there and done that. UM life was very chaotic in the early seventies, UM due to a variety

of reasons, not the least of which was the Vietnam War. UM. But we also had many many UM anti government organizations that we're at work across the nation, and so we've dealt with UM some very extreme violent organizations and uh, it was it was really ugly. So to see it come back is not a surprise. To see it so

politicized is not a surprise. That's more sophisticated now, But a lot of things going on are more sophisticated, um, you know, to the extent that we're able to follow some of these things that are not suppressed or not handling the mainstream media. There's some really problematic things happening now here in the country and really going on around

the world. So for for those that here defund the police, like what are what are the the actual real world ramifications of that, Like you you spent your had a great run of the l a p D. You were, you know, one of the big shots there. But what what does it actually mean Because we've actually seen in some cities, as you know, they do you have defunded the police. They have taken a good amount of money

away from law enforcement. So when they do that, that in certain places, like what what happens is ares fighting crime, Well, when you have less officers out there, less visibility, then um, it is extremely counterproductive. And the result is you start stacking up dead bodies and crime goes crazy, which is what you see across the nation right now. Violence is extreme. Look, we're only as good as the willingness of the community

to follow the law. And when the percentage of people who don't follow the laws increases, for whatever the cause, then they wreak havoc on the rest of the general population. So if you get a percentage that starts getting higher and higher, than you get civil and rest, and you get crime, and you get all that violence out there. And who who's going to look out for those poor people? Uh? The only people traditionally that do look out for them

or your uniform police officers. And and that's the way it's been, and it's been that way for or you know, probably a hundred and fifty years here easily at least, since there's been a need for a police department. You have to go back to the basics. Why do we

have a police department? Because we have a need for them, all right, So let's go back here to the summer Chief And and I have that image the video in my head still that was bouncing around social media in l A. Here somewhere in l a where the camera guy was walking down the street and there were there were burned out police cars on like both sides of it. It looked like a war zone. How it was not just Los Angeles, It's happened a lot of places. But

how does that, How is that allowed to happen? How how how are are these people that are allowed to run around and burn police cars? It was just seemed insane to me. Well it is. It's actually an attack on um civilized society. So it's an attack on the taxpayers. It's a it's a I mean those things cost money, obviously, it's it's uh. It's a significant attack on a piece of the community. And of course it wasn't just the

police cars. Um. There were victims that owned UM small businesses along all of those quarters that you know, their businesses were damaged, they were alloted, they were burned out. Many of them UM members of the minority community that have finally gotten a leg up and and have proven to be successful after many years of hard work, and what did we do? Um we we kind of um burn them down to the ground and threw them out

of their opportunities for a bright future. And you've got to ask yourself the question, who would do such things and for what reason? Obviously, if you're trying to be constructive to make things better, uh, and there are certain things we can all agree to, then how does that advance the course of discussion to torch police cars and and burn people out of their livelihoods? It doesn't. Well, yeah,

and then the other thing about it too. You know a lot of the people that were doing that, they knew who they were, but they just give them, not even a slap on the wrist. They were they were like in and out. It was a revolving door. The prosecutors were not charging them with anything. So it's like they got a free pass on that, which is also mind blowing on top of it, like they you know, they knew who was doing it in some locations, they caught some of the people and they were not even

punished for it, which is which is just insane to me. Well, it's it's another issue. Um. So you know how we generally say don't paint people with a broad brush, And we certainly would say that when we're talking about, um, police officers in general, we don't want to paint it

with a broad brush. Um, but you would have to say that about prosecutors to a lot of the activities that you see going on under the direct results of politics and the nature of where politicians are and how they are influence and what they are trying to accomplish, what suits their political preferences going forward. And I think you've seen a lot of that go on in various parts of the country, and and and that leaves you somewhat speechless and disappointed. Um, But in a lot of ways,

I'm not. I'm not disappointed that they lived up or lived down to the expectations I have for some of them. I think you've seen some of the most gross incompetence in political leadership in the history of our country during this year. Yeah. Well, and following that train of thought, I know when you found out that, I guess you you know him live A. George Gascon is the new district attorney in l A. Shares a similar last name to you, and has much different feelings on how to

treat crime. In fact, the story came out I'm sure you saw it here. This last week or so, the new district Attorney in l A announced essentially he's going to stop prosecutions on non violent crimes including trespassing, disturbing the police, driving without a license, prostitution, resisting arrest is on that list. UM, drug possession, criminal threats like all that stuff is not going to be prosecuted. Uh, for first time offenders. I believe. I think it's only for

first time offenders. But when you saw that, I mean, this guy has a reputation. What what was your reaction? Well, first and foremost, I know George. I've known George for i'd say most of his career here in Los Angeles, and I personally like George and I've always gotten along with him. And when George left the l A p D and ended up in Mason and then ended up in San Francisco and on, and I was very much distressed by um his politics, which I found shocking and disappointing.

And I like George personally, but I pretty much am on the opposite side of the coin on just about everything he believes in politically, and so I'm disappointed about it. No, we haven't spoken and what I speak with him, of course I would, um, And and do do I believe that he's wrong in his approach? Yes, I do. And what I would I be quite vociferous in my views,

You bet, I would be. Um. I think we have to look at history, and we have a lot of history, uh to look at in terms of what has proven to be successful and what has proven to be unsuccessful, and how to deal with our communities. There's no question that we need to have a bond with the members of our community. There's no question that all of us are opposed to abuses that occur, and none of us want to see abuses at the hands of police officers. We can all agree with that, so we have to

be sensitive to that. We have to hire the best people, train him as properly it is possible, and we have to hold them accountable. But to watch the nonsense that's going on as a result of some of these things is kind of extraordinarily disappointing. Yeah, and it's also just the quality of life issue with a lot of these things, right, it's not you know, I say, well, you give people

a second chance. But as as you talked about earlier, Chief, when you own businesses, and you know, people are disturbing the peace in front of your business, causing trouble. They're drunk or whatever, and they're making threats and no one's gonna be punished for I mean that that affects the quality of life. I mean I heard stories in San Francisco of what went on when he was running the show there, George Gascon in San Francisco, And it sounds

like that's gonna be coming to Los Angeles. But these are really quality of life things. These you know, these it seems like you meaningless stuff and the pictures how trespassing. Who cares? But you know, somebody's trespassing in your property right And this becomes a problem if it continues over and over again. We want to espouse that we care

about people and we're sensitive to about people's welfare. And and then if I were to walk you downtown and look at skid Row and to realize that we have probably sixty thousand people living on the streets in this city in the worst of conditions, Uh, what does that really say about how we treat humanely those of us that have problems in the community. If you have a

mental problem, if you have a drug problem, etcetera. How do we treat you well, Let you live in that kind of squalor we let you get exposed to um diseases and illnesses and things like that. Uh, we let you live in an area infested with with rats and feces and all those things that that kind of problem, you know, presents to a community. And and and yet out the other side of our mouth, we're talking all

these great wonderful things we're gonna do. And oh, by the way, send us more money so we can fix this problem that actually we've created. Yeah, we have. We have gone a long way to destroy some of these major cities in this country. Um. I think Dave's been up to San Francisco in the recent past, and it's like shocking to hear the stories, and I hear them

from other people who have been there. But you know, I'm a big Kings fan, and I go downtown frequently still, and you know, you don't want to get too far off the main drags there because you're looking around and you're saying, boy, you know, I'm allowed to pack a gun, but a lot of these poor people here they have no chance as somebody jumps them. Yeah, I was just in downtown Los Angeles this weekend. I went to the

bookstore down there and skid Role. You know, there was this point of demarcation, as you know that one in one street over was was bad, and then over it wasn't that bad. On the other side it was kind of nice downtown. Skid Rose moved. All were a couple of blocks. Now it's no longer just in that that one corridor, and no one seems to want to address that. Like the homeless problem, it's even worse, obviously because of

what's happened now with people losing their jobs. But everyone's concerned about other things, but the homeless it just keeps they keeps piling up. What's it gonna take for politicians to actually do something about that? And it's something we look at it this way. If your coach kept presenting you with a football team that was three and thirteen year after year, what's it gonna take. It takes a change.

You know, we're gonna have to change out politicians. People are going to have to recognize that you can't keep voting the same types of people in or the same people in, because you're going to continue to get this kind of nonsense. It's it's the definition of insanity, isn't it. Yeah, it's it is is wild. What's been going on with the on this problem? That's great though, you even you are allowed to carry a weapon. When you go to downtown, you kind of look around a little bit're like, wait

a minute, what's going on around here? This is not This is not where I want to be. If you go go a block over. Well, you know, we're really concerned about health issues right now, so much so that we have this interest in locking everything down. Uh, but what are we not concerned with the health of those thousands of people in the streets that are living on

top of each other in destitute conditions. Yeah, we act like we're paralyzed and we have no ideas on how to deal with them, and then we ask for more money, and then pretty soon there's billions of dollars and you look around and the problem has grown. So, you know, there comes a point where you say stop. You know, let's look at this again from the beginning and let's figure out ways to fix this. We need solutions. We

don't need to keep adding to the problem. Yeah, absolutely correct here, and so you know, going going forward, you know, what do you You say you need new politicians, but it's like the same type of people run for these offices. So what's it going to take to get some new blood politically to actually do something well? I think it

takes a significant frustration level in the electorate. Um. So now we're watching this unfold as it relates to COVID nineteen and the countermeasures that are being taken in some um cities, counties, and states. We're in a position to see what's going on and learn um those various actions by elected officials across the nation, and we can make judgments is to how they're handling handling themselves and how

they want to attack the problem. And what's happened now across the country is there is a sizable percentage of the population that has now come to the conclusion that elected officials, many of them, are not to be trusted and that their judgments are faulty. Um, that they say one thing, but they don't believe it, or they don't act like they believe what they're saying. Uh. They impose certain rules and regulations and yet they ignore them themselves.

And the population has had enough, And I think that's going to continue to grow, and the frustration is going to continue to grow even though we're facing this health crisis. UM, the frustration with leadership is um going to continue to grow, and that's going to result in some further changes down

the road. So I saw a great video I think it was from San Bernardino, the police, the guy running the police out there, who pushed back on Gavin Newsom here in California trying to you know, shut down businesses as you referred to the lockdown which is really just wild here in California right now, with businesses being restaurants

being forced to close, barbershops, all that stuff. And he brought up a great point though about how in California and it's in other states, these politicians are using the police, their weaponizing the police to fight their battles with mom and pop businesses. You talked to a lot of people still in law enforcement. What what's been the general reaction from from the people you deal with here about politicians demanding you go in and you know, lockdown and arrest

people running a pizza shop. Well, I think, uh, there's frustration at every level of of the community, and that would include your public servants. UM. So I think the address your discussing is a speech by I think the Riverside County sheriff. There's about five sheriffs that have taken some pretty strong positions in in the state. You know, the state's divided, I think into fifty eight counties, and

the sheriffs are constitutionally um protect the position. And it is one of the first things that we did when California's constitution was was put together and passed. It was it designates who the offices are and how the county should be run. The sheriff is is certainly one of them. And as some sheriffs may tell you, uh, the sheriff may have more votes than the than any of the

members of the board of supervisors. So it's kind of interesting when you watch some of the nonsense that's gone on in Los Angeles with the power plays back and forth between the sheriff and the county supervisors, and um, you know, the sheriff's have said, wait a minute. I mean, I mean, look back and objectively look at that, and let me considered. I have a real responsibility. I swear an oath to the constitution also, and and in that oath I have to be sensitive to all of these issues.

And I'm not going to, um, I'm not going to be oppressive and abusive to to a largely peaceful and responsible community. And I'm not going to be used um by some elected officials when they have no substantiated reason for the actions that they're taking. On one hand, they say it's about the science, except when you want to see the science, the science doesn't support their views. And then when you find them going out and doing the

opposite of what they're demanding the public do. Uh, not only is there frustration, but you you're not buying it. And and it's not just the elected officials. Are the elected sheriffs that feel that way? That would be pervasive in the ranks. Um, you don't want to be used as a sheriff step at here as a police officer, Uh, to be a tool of somebody who's doing something that

you believe is inappropriate and perhaps even unconstitutional. Yeah. And I have noticed that the phrase, and we've talked about on the podcast with your son here, that the out of an abundance of caution. Like I feel like these politicians, if they use that line, they think they can get away with anything. Uh. And and common sense. That's the thing that's lacking. You know, common sense is not common

right now. But you look at around the country in certain states have opened up a lot more compared to California, and they don't have the problems that California has. And yet as you reference, you call the politicians out on this and they just do a tap dance, and so it just it's just going to continue on and on. But uh, if you were, if you were in charge, obviously we don't know all the data and all that

we know a lot of it on the internet. But what do you think the proper way to handle what's been going on here with this public health situation with the COVID. Uh, if if you were in charge, what do you think the proper way to handle it would be? Well, so, so remember how we generally deal with a responsible group of people. You can start with chill run And what is our priority? If I was to tell you, what's one of the very most important things we do when

we're raising children. You want to educate children. Certainly, you want to keep them healthy and safe, um, but we want to educate them. Education is a top priority. Police departments and sheriff's departments. We come in after everything else seems to have failed, and we're supposed to fix things. We're supposed to neutralize the threats, the problems, and deal with the the event itself. But the best way to

do it is to prevent problems from happening. And so therefore, we want a robust educational system uh to take care of how we nurture and raise our children. Well, the same thing about education goes for adults. Um. We we should have launched a major educational effort that goes from the top of our state all the way through to the local community and make sure that we provide the best and most consistent unless they consistent twice uh. Information

out there. People don't want to get exposed to this disease. People don't want to die. People want to live a healthy life. People believe in the constitution. Uh, they can express their free will, but they want to live. And when we start trying to treat them like cattle and heard them in different directions, UH, they've gotten to the point where they're they're not gonna be hearded. Um. So

the best approach is always education. The best approach is always too patiently try to explain and get them to understand and follow without having to force and not use coercive force of police and sheriffs departments. Yeah, and we've seen as I said, you know, Florida they have had a more hands off approach, for example, and they don't

have the problems that California is now. I also want to talk in this political climate that we're in, Chief, I love the fact that you, because of your your years and law enforcement from what I understand, from what your son tells me, and I've heard through the grapevine, you have great relationships with people who you completely disagree with.

You referred to. We talked about George Gascon earlier, the district attorney in l A who you are completely, uh, the opposite of as far as his some of his political beliefs. But but you get along with these guys. We live in a world right now where if you disagree politically, you you cannot be friends like you know, I'm I'm more like you where I have friends that are you know, I disagree with politically. But uh, you know, how did we get to this point where now if

you if you're not in lockstep, you're done. Yeah, Yeah, there's there's no question, and it's like, um, and we can talk politics here. We have so polarized our political environment here that it it's now pervasive throughout life in the entire tree. Now you line up whether you're to the left or to the right of center, and we can't find the middle ground anymore. Used to be the measure of UM. Successful politician was figuring out a way to find win win propositions, meeting somewhere in the in

the middle. Um And. And that's the way you accomplish things by meeting and working with each other. And we're not doing that. We seem to have gotten to the point where the political parties and the nature of the parties and their philosophies supersedes the commitment to the United States itself, to the Constitution and to the people of

the United States. UM. And it's a selfish and absolutely selfish way to look at politics, to think of you and your party first and not think of the American public in adherence to the Constitution and what's best for the United States. And that's where we are. And until we can find elective officials that are willing to do that, we're going to be in a world to hurt and guess who's going to take advantage of it. I mean,

we're reading about it the last couple of days. There are people constantly probing, constantly looking for a way to weaken the nature of the United States. The rule of law here has been undermined now for many years, and so there are people who are they don't have the best interests of the people the United States in mind, political power and political power on the international stage as a priority for a lot of people and a lot of organizations, and frankly, those of us on this call,

we really don't count for much. How much of this has to do us horn ourselves out to the international community, whether it's China, Russia, the UK, Germany, whatever it may be. Because we had this conversation off the air, but the Chinese have systematically the infiltrated every area of our nation, whether it's politically, government, pharmaceuticals and medicine, academics, like they've gone through and have taken shots at us and have you know, taken a little skin off the off the body.

We don't even know where we're compromised. That's how bad it is. Um. I I remember pointing out a little over a year maybe eighteen months ago to a good friend of mine. UM the fact that we seem to be arresting professors across the country UM at some of our major universities for their involvement with the Communist Chinese Party UH activities. And and then eventually we learn of the gazillions of dollars that are being pumped into these

universities donations. Sometimes we're not even they're not even reported, but but we're talking about billions of dollars that have been funneled into the country. And there's a reason for that. UH, there's a reason that you know, they're contacting local mayors and trying to select people who have shall we stay ambition and that may one day become Congress people and may find themselves on the Intelligence Committee. There's a reason

for all of that that doesn't have by accident. These are people that are help bent on doing what they think is in their interests. And we we seem to be naive, We seem to have our head in the sands, so to speak, not to be aware of this stuff, or we're not being educated well enough by the responsible

organizations in our government to be aware of this. UM we we we we only have to look at what going what is going on in the university uh systems that to find out how threatening this is because our young people are getting hit with things that lay eater on translate into problems for our way of life. You know, we we believe we have a great way of life.

We believe this is a great country, and there are people outside of the country that believe we are a major threat to the rest of the of the world. You know, I think we all want to get to the Star Trek universe at some point where we all get along and all work together, et cetera. But across the globe we've demonstrated we continue to demonstrate we're not

ready to do that yet. And those people that think we can just flip the switch and do it are are are really causing problems on the international stage, and they're certainly causing problems in this country. So do you think the root is money? I think money is a means by which people can achieve the ideology. So they know, um, those that have money to burn, so to speak, No, that money can be used to accomplish what their goal is.

UM value money. It's it's a cornerstone of our capitalistic system. Um, we measure success that way. We like the toys, we like to buy things and own things, and we like to be viewed as uh significantly successful, etcetera. So money becomes a natural uh tool to be used against us. And it is so when we have positions like Eric Swalwell a couple of days ago and Diane Feinstein's aid from I think a year or two ago, that have been caught or found to be compromised or at working

for a foreign intelligence agency or a government. What do you recommend happens to those individuals here that are are actually sitting in a position of power politically. Well, there's a question of what the investigations might tell you if you do an honest investigation. UM, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that experts know how to work us. You know, they've spent a lot of time, they've spent years. They know how to successfully um inject themselves into the political

life of a community or the or the country. And they can do it in a sophisticated way. And you might not even know it's happening to you until you end up in a situation where you're other elbows with somebody. You're having dinner with somebody, UM, but you don't understand that there's there's another reason other than the friendship uh that they have. And I mean we see this in criminal activities. I mean, I worked undercovering arcotics back in nineteen seventy one, and you can see it then with

the people that you were interacting with. They're not Communist spies or agents, etcetera. But they were criminals and they had a reason for the things that they were doing. And you know, you you kind of learn when you get exposed to it. And some people in our country FBI UM are are intelligence agencies that are far more sophisticated and understand what we're dealing with. But we're not. We're not educated at the level we need to be

what the threat is. And I don't think most of our elected officials are educated enough or insulated from the kinds of things that can actually cause us grief. And although I'm not a fan of Eric Swallwell's UM, I wouldn't be the I wouldn't be one to immediately assume that he was an agent UM for the Communist Chinese. I wouldn't say that at all. He could he could clearly and easily just be a duke um and not

know any better. Uh, you know, which is remarkable if you listen to some of the things that he said over the last four years. So um, but I think I think we have to realize there are people that are twenty four seven. They are looking to damage the United States and to subvert our government, whereas we may and not even be thinking about those things throughout the

course of our days. One of the ways that they have gone out for us is, I think we can all agree with this is the way that the news has been published to the masses, whether it's left leaning or right leaning. Is there a fix for that? Well, that's that's really problematic when we get into it. So you know, I fashioned myself a little bit of an expert in dealing with the news media. I also recognize that rather than seeing a large conspiracy here, we have

to understand who we're dealing with. His individuals and they have some common traits, um, but they it's the way they look at themselves and who they are, and it's what their personal belief system is that too frequently gets in the way of news and it becomes opinion. And it also then provides a slant to the way stories carried, etcetera. Now that's separate and apart from what the the um the actual agencies that hire the reporters and put them

on the air or publish their stories. That's that's a completely different issue, because again there's an ideology at the top of those organizations, whether it be The New York Times, watching the Post, ABC News, NBC, there are bosses in control that are guiding and directing what is going on below,

and we've seen some examples recently with CNN. So you know, if you get this desire to unify on on a purpose to be accomplished, and you have the power of your organization to advance that, then you can be pretty destructive to the extent that you can influence the people that follow you. But when you have so many of them that philosophically agree on something, the question then becomes

is the public well served? I happen to believe that in a democracy, UM, we all need as much objective information as we can get so that we can make good decisions. Good decisions on who we elect office is what we're talking about here. So I'd like to know the truth about all of these candidates. And the question is am I getting it or am I getting only half of the story? Which is the half of the story that I'm allowed to hear. Uh So, I want a free press and I want an objective press, and

I want to hear both sides of the stories. We're not a country that says, okay, we have this. These are the left newspapers and these are the right newspapers, etcetera. We have our our papers who want to tell us that they're telling us the truth. Our agencies on television want to tell us that they're telling us the truth. But the question is are they really on one side of the political spectrum. I'm gonna pivot real quick, and uh Ben can jump in on this because I know

you'll have some fun with it. Obviously, the O J stuff, that's one thing. The Michael Jackson cases are another. But the North Hollywood shootout, how would you have handled that if you were in charge? Well, it's a tactical situation once it starts going down. They so they effectively did what they should have done. Um, you know the first units, and I happen to know one of the officers in the first unit that was there when you get when you get to that kind of a situation, you try

to secure the perimeter. You bring in all the resources that you needed. They did all of that stuff, but we had been in a situation where essentially we had shotguns in side arms, and then you're dealing with people that are fully equipped for war, not only with body armor but the types of weapons that they had. So when you have automatic weapons, you have armor piercing rounds

and things like that, you're ready to see. You know, you're a small infantry company and and so you know, I think we ended up having ten or eleven officers wounded in that two of them seriously, um you know, shot through the femur and absolutely vaporized like four inches of bone in the femer. I think for both of them, UM, terrible situations. Yet we didn't lose anyone, but easily could have lost them. And so um, they did what they

needed to do, and eventually one was killed. He was shot simultaneously through the spinal cord at the same time he pulled the trigger and killed himself. So both of those UM bullets ended his life. And then the second one ended up down the street, and three or three of the guys that used to work at SLAT when when I was at metro Um, they were the people that ended up confronting him and he lost that firefight

and that that ended it. But that was you know, as that thing unfold it's easy to go back and say, well, this is what we had and this is the best way to have approached at et cetera. But that's not how the real world works. The real world worked exactly the way you saw it on TV and live action.

Is this started unfolding before your eyes, and it's a dynamic situation that everybody's trying to respond to and trying to make good decisions, trying not to get themselves killed along the way, and not trying to protect the community. Pretty interesting case. Yeah, and chief when you're when you're out and about, right when you're you're out and about, is there a day in normal times when someone doesn't bring up the O J case to you? Well, you know, I just I did something a few months ago that

was just not television in October. It was a British production company. And I tell people that's a that's a case that will never go away because you'll remember at the time it happened the way, uh it impacted the country, and it's like, uh, there were so many different hooks that this had into the community. People that were into sports, people that were into movies and television, people that were into advertising and marketing, people that cared about society, the

racial issue and those angles. All those things created a following that made that one of those once in a century types of stories that just gathered enormous interests. I run into people to this day and it'll it'll come up um where people want to talk about it and I want to talk about it um as one of those moments in their lives where they remember every detail about it. I talked to somebody the other day it was like, yeah, I followed it religiously, all of it.

It's really yeah. I mean I find those people all the time where they find uh interesting perspectives. Um. Because it was very dramatic. My part time job for of yusually used to reach scripts at night in the middle of the night to be rooting scripts for Steven Bocco, whether it's Hill Street Blues or one of the other programs. But uh so I got to know some of the producers and directors and a few of the actors, but it was. It was interesting in dealing with some of

them in the years after the Simpson case. They would tell me that, hey, this is this is what I do for a living. I do drama. You know, I'm thinking of these things. And he said that day I thinking of One director in particularly said that day I spent the whole day sitting in my bed at Big Sir, watching what happened in this thing, this event, and watching you on television and the two news conferences. He said, I'll never forget it. It was one of those seminal

moments in my you know, life in this country. He said, it just made that much of an impression on me. Well, it did. It made that much of oppression on people. Uh, it turns out around the globe. You know. A couple of years ago, I'm down on Argentina with one of the United States national teams and I'm in a meeting with their Olympic Committee people. And the guy who spoke in just leaked over and he said, the guys are talking about Jenny said, what do you mean they're talking

about me? We're down here to talk about the sport. He said, They're all talking about you because they all watched you and the Simpson thing. And I'm thinking, these guys are in buenas aries and they're talking about watching the Simpson thing. It's like craziness. But that's what happened. It was it was everywhere, and it was of great interest for a number of different reasons. And No, I don't expect it will go away for a while. I mean,

they're teaching as a result of this thing. There are a lot of people that just want to They remembered so clearly, and there was so much of a following and there's there's so much media about it that, um, I don't expect it's going to go away for decades now.

Early on, Like, I know you've been asked a million times, but when you first found out about this and you realized that o J could be tied to it, Like, what was the reaction among the department there, the people around you when you found out, oh my god, this could be you know, a legendary figure like oh J could be involved in something like this. Well, it kind

of goes back to that Monday morning. I got into the office between eight and nine o'clock as I'm as I usually do, and uh I was the commander at the time, and working with with me was Lieutenant John Duncan, who handled a lot of the press and um I would have him brief me every morning on anything that occurred overnight or over the weekends. And John came in and uh I said, anything going on over the weekend?

He said, not really, it was really quiet. He said, although we did have a double homicide in Brentwood, said John, a double homicide in Brentwood. We don't even get murders in Brentwood. When you talking about double homicide, what's the story? And he says, uh, O J. Simpson's ex wife. And I said, quote O. J. Simpson's ex wife. Where is O. J. Simpson?

And he told me, which is interesting because you know a lot of people had that rush to judgment charge they wanted to make against the l a p D. But he said this, He said, I talked to the guys from Robbert Homicide and they said he didn't have any to do with it. He's in Chicago. Well, that was early information. So often the first information you get is not totally accurate. That's why you investigate things and

it takes time. But the first briefing I received. I asked that question specifically, and his answer was, now, he didn't have anything to do with it. The guys say he's in Chicago. Then later on that day, you know, he returns, and then there's an interview, and then we're watching this unfold. I'm getting phone calls from particularly from UM New York and Miami, talking about the O J.

Simpson I didn't know. Um A lot of us grew up here that we're big U c l A Basketball fans because we all loved John Wooden and he was highly successful. And then we were also big USC football fans because John McKay was fantastic and really fun to follow and had great football teams. And then we had O J. Simpson who was an incredible running back. And UM, so we were big fans. And so as the story starts unfold over a few days, it starts looking like, oh,

he he probably did too. O J. Simpson did this, and he had people shaking her head. They just couldn't believe it. And and it's in a lot of ways, were like the general public, which is we watch people on television and we think we know them. We watched interviews after they've been successful you know, they scored the

winning touchdown whatever, and they seem likable and warm and fuzzy. Uh. They do a broadcast or they're in a TV program or a movie, and we like them and follow them, and we know the successes of their life, and we feel we know these people. And that's always a problem for prosecutors when they deal with you know, V I. P. S Um, somebody with a high profile, because people think they know them. Well, we as we found out, we

didn't know O. J. Simpson. Um. Eventually we found out plenty about O. J. Simpson and so it was it was surprising, it was disappointing. And uh and yet have you been around a while, you understand that, Uh, these things do happen. It happened in this case, tragic case, and the one thing that seems to get lost. But I always make sure I bring it up as we've got to think of those two young people who didn't deserve to die, and they certainly didn't deserve to die

like that. Absolutely, what what do you think happened to the murder weapon? Well, he had apple time to get rid of it. Um. You know, there's plenty of speculation on that. I don't have any speculations that there was somebody else involved. Um, I believe that, you know, not only did he do it, but he's probably responsible for whatever happened with it. Um. And it's gone. And so you know, you remember this story a couple of years ago over they thought they found the potential knife and

it didn't turn out to be etcetera. UM. A lot of a lot of cases you're short on um, on evidence, you're short on eyewitnesses, you're short on a lot of things that you think you need. But the O. J. Simpson case, yeah, lacking lacking the knife, but the O. J. Simpson case had tremendous amount of evidence to the extent that you there should be no doubt in anyone's mind, and a lot of people, UM, I really don't have

any doubt that he did it. Yeah, when you chief, when you see O J now on Twitter golfing in Vegas and all that, and you saw the photos and all the evidence in that case goes through your mind when you know, I went to jail for a while for a crime in Nevada, but he's seems to be living living a pretty good life right now. Yeah, Well, I think back to what I heard early on, actually before I became a police officer. I mean, I didn't

grow up wanting to be a police officer. And I ended up uh going to l A. Harvard College, one of our local community colleges here in Los Angeles, and so Harvard College down here right off the Harbor Freeway in Wilmington's and I took some police science classes. That boy, I was hooked in, I mean immediately hooked. We had a lieutenant down here that was teaching. The name was Rudy da Leone. He eventually retired as a captain from

our Harlembeck uh station. And Rudy was like the pied piper of l A p D. I don't know how many hundreds of us ended up joining the l A p D over all the years that he taught at Harvard College. But one of the things that we've always heard about, and you hear it expressed in law school and here to express all the time and philosophy courses, etcetera. We'd rather a hundred guilty people get released than put an innocent person in jail or even worse, you know,

have them executed. That it's the way the system works. You have to believe that we have a great system of jurisprudence here. You have to believe in the jury system, um, And it's not going to be perfect. And so some some some bad guys are gonna walk away. They're gonna take their chances with the jury, and the jury is going to come back and say, we're just not convinced enough.

They may go artificially in their minds from beyond a reasonable doubt, too, beyond any doubt, and they're gonna say, we can't convict you, and you go out the door. And if you believe in the system, and all of these law enforcement officers that swear an oath to do the best they can for the community and believe in

the system, they shake their head. You know, I watched in the yearly seventies, I think in consecutive years where guys that had murdered l A police officers um walked out of court because juries had come loose, and it was just like stunning, UM. But you have to recognize that it happens. And celebrities do get a break sometimes from the fact that the community thinks they know them and jurors are apt to give them more leeway than someone else and so it's a little bit of frustration

and you shake your head. Like I said, I kind of think of the poor victims, um this, this guy. Eventually we have to hope he pays the price. He'll answer to somebody far more powerful than us, but hopefully he'll be held accountable for it. But it's, um yeah, it's a it's a frustrating thing. Absolutely, listen, Chief, thank you. I know when this is all we all got to get together and hang out like like you real human beings. You know by any time that it's always a pleasure

to uh spend time with you. And obviously I see Dave all the time, but you know, it's good to talk to the both of you. Enjoyed it. Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Meller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific.