Pigskin

That it does. We are in the air everywhere radio show, the Overnight Show, and they do that, of course, eight five days a week. This this podcast available every week and it's the Friday Podcast because four hours a night in the overnight clearly not enough. And this is an interview podcast with Gascon again over here. But this is an interview podcast Gascount. So it's not about you. Okay, it's not about you. But this podcast we are gonna welcome in here in a couple of minutes. The great

Sean Salisbury. Now Sean played at USC back and they bounced around the NFL. I remember him most as a Minnesota Viking quarterback. But he he went to training camp with some other teams. I think he even did a stint in the Canadian Football League. Like a lot of people know him more from his TV stuff. He was at ESPN for a long time and has done a bunch of different media work and and right now you can hear him if you're listening in the Houston area

or if you want to listen online. Sean is a morning drive talk show host in Houston and every morning he cranks out those radio shows from six to ten AM on seven ninety Sports Talk seven ninety and Houston, which happens to be the home of the Ben Mallor Show in Houston, and that is also where the Astros

and Rockets games are played on the radio. We've had a love hate relationship with our friends in Houston, but we are excited to have Sean on Washington back in the day on ESPN and very opinionated guy and good good at giving takes on on NFL. Obviously that's his bread and butter, but all things, he's a morning guy, so he talks about all sports. But this is gonna be an NFL heavy podcast, and so let's welcome in Sean Salisburg. Guess why don't we start since year in

the Houston Morning Guy, we should start with Deshaun Watson. Sean, thanks for coming on with us. But how does this Deshaun Watson's story end. He apparently wants out of Houston. The Texans are claiming they don't really want to get rid of him, at least that's the public position. So how does this story end? Well, I think you'd be insane, Bennon, It's great to be on with you too. How to even consider trading him? I mean I would exhaust every

option to keep him on the roster. I mean you're talking about other than Patrick Mahomes over the next decade. This is the best ask it to build a team around for ten years. Now too, you'd say Rogers or one of those guys is in the mix. But over the next ten it's Mahomes Watson second. And then there's the gap between the three. And yeah, I'm including Conlor Marie and Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayson, all of them. Watson second, and he would command a major hall. I

get it, but I understand disgruntled. And it may come to the point where it's say, if he's got the guts to hold out and I'm on his side because they came away with you know, the trust and trust matters for a lot of guys. He's a principled guy. Um, he's a dedicated guy. Trust and communication when they there's a misconception that he went and told them he wanted to say. They came to him and asked for input, and then they didn't ask for his input after they

told him they'd give it to him. So I get his distrust in the easter be cowed dysfunction. It's probably, excuse me, the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL right now. And that's saying something, Ben. You've covered the sport in the sports world for a long time, so uh, for for me, I would think that if I was the GM or the owner, I'd say And the talk is that they aren't answering calls out it that they were saying we're not interested. But you know that can change.

So it's never all or nothing, I guess. But if Watson has the guts to hold out a forty million bucks not play a season, then you've got to say who's Who's who's stronger to call the bluff? I mean, are you gonna sit out we're a long ways from that. But I wouldn't trade him. I wouldn't trade a guy who's that good. But if it was unfixable, the hall for for And that's the way people feel in town.

It's Watson. Two of the people are like, well, he's under contract, he should just show up and play, regardless of what happened to blah blah blah. And if you're you know, ownership or management, when they're piss they can say something about you, but when you've got a problem as a player, you're not supposed to talk. That's, you know, the old school philosophy. Right, Well, things are changing, so for me then I would think that if you traded Watson,

I wouldn't answer your call. If alls you were offering me his three first round picks, i'd say, I'd say, if it came to the point where we had to get rid of him, I'm gonna make your franchise hurts so bad, whether you the forty Niners or the Dolphins of the Jets, that I'm gutting your franchise to the point that when you do trade for Watson, as good as he is, that you're gonna ask the room that's in that room and making this decision. Did we make the right move even though we're going to get a

franchise changing quarterback. That's how bad it's got to hurt you. I'll see you, Stafford, and I'll raise you a double. Is what exactly people are thinking when it comes to Deshaun Watson in this town. Yeah, and you know, I've talked about Watson a lot because it's a big story obviously, and my thing and I can't wrap my head around I know, the trust deal which you brought up. But

the Texans, it's not like they just became dysfunctional. You're there every day, Sean, your your cover and I mean Bill O'Brien was still the coach and the GM when Watson signed the extension. So and it's it's not like this is a new phenomen It's not a case. My point is, it's not bait and switch. So what is really going on here? Is this an ownership situation with I know, the owner passed away and the kids running the team now? Is it? Is it a higher level

situation with the Texans? It is. It's it's the fact that I think and we well, this isn't just a one off thing. And where it's like, oh, this happened that they promised him this, Now that I think this was the capper, you know, the O'Brien thing, the trade into DeAndre Hopkins without telling you know, was just out

of nowhere, right, And it's a it's cumulative, man. It's it's not just one thing, because a lot of times we all are offended by something somebody says, um, and it's like, Okay, let's let's try to sit down and fix it. It's like, at some point you think that whether it's Deshaun or the front office, Nick Cassario, the new GM, he wasn't here during the dysfunction. Neither was David Culley. So I'm hoping to Shaun and then say

we're grown ass man. Let's sit down for a second and let's just spend a couple of hours and see if we can't find out and hear hear out, hear you out what what concerns you. And I'd be willing to do that because this is a great football player and a great human. But then you make a good point is you signed a contract when there was dysfunction, um, and you knew. I mean, you've been on a dysfunctional

franchise with a dysfunctional owner. God rest Mr mcnersle but post him and even when he was there, if you remember the race issue about inmates and stuff, and that the players were bothered by that. So this is a deeper issue, I promise you, than just a one off thing. And then you know this too in life and and other things. Sometimes like in a relationship, right a marriage, which this is supposed to be, sometimes the dude just wants out or the girl wants out. They've just had

they don't want to do anymore. And for what you could talk and go out to dinner and drink wine and say, and then the next day it's like going back to I don't want to do it. So maybe it gets to the point that he just wants out. And if he does, then at some point in time you've got to have a come to Jesus, not only with him but with your own front office and say, listen, it isn't gonna work. How are we going to move

on from this? And then you next as he's held you hostage, need to go hold franchise as hostage and say you ain't getting him. For two first rounders and two a sorry, dude, that's not enough of a gut punch. That's what they have to do. But if the front office, we shouldn't be in this situation. Ben, you know this, when you sign a guy you've been covering sports this long,

We've never seen this. We we we've never seen five year old, forty million dollar quarterback in the prime of his career where it's come to this in this sport. Other sports we have hell and Houston hardened. We've seen it twice. So Harden was part of it too. So you get to a point where it's like, since we haven't seen it, then I've I've got to find a way that you're gonna have to mortgage some of your

franchise to do it to get him. And if you're willing to do that, then if it's if it's beyond fixing, then we've got to address that. But if I was a GM here or if somebody you know, thinking somebody else, it should have never got to this. We should be enjoying the fruits of Deshaun Watson. And now we're talking to a guy that now now to other teams have supposedly jumped in the fray. If there's an offer on the table and he wants out. I'm sure they'll entertain

it at some point. Well, you're a football guy, you played the sport and all that, You've been around it forever. And this is, as you reference, this is an NBA type move the Shaun Watson store, it's an NBA. Is this going to become I don't think it is. But is this going to become more prevalent in the NFL now that because of social media and some other factors here that we we're gonna end up seeing more of these star players who are unhappy just strong arm their

way out of town like they do in other sports. Yeah, maybe more, but I don't know. And unlike the NBA, I mean I think there's more stars. When I say stars, since there's five guys on the court, the superstars control more in the In the NBA, they just do week I can grow through him. At some point, Luca is going to control what he wants to do, right, Janice does we liewle Lebron has how guys like Paul George

and James Harden and I mean they do. So there's a bunch of let's say there's a dozen of them in the NBA. If you went down the pecking order Lebron, if Steph Curry, I'm sure at some point I wanted to control his. He could k d you know the controlled here. I mean you can now we look in the NFL. How many of those sacred cows are there? I mean, Watson is controlling it. Mahomes is locked up for like forty seven years, so probably won't come to that,

but he could. Rogers is starting to do. We've heard Rodgers talk about it, and you know, apparently wants a new deal. So maybe him. But I think he wants to play. I actually do think he wants to play his career in Green Bay after that. Baker is not at the point yet. Lamar can't control that yet because they're still wondering what he said. Josh Allen's not there

just yet. He's still got much to prove, So we have less volume of those guys that completely because I hate to say it, but a pass rushing defensive end, even though he may be dominant like Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa, there the quarterback, the tenth best quarterback in the league is always going to bring more value than the best pass rusher. He just is and on the ball.

I mean, so the best thing you could be is that as dominant as you want, bring LT back and it's still Lawrence Tanner I'm talking about, and he's not gonna be able to dictate if a franchise, Okay, oh you want to hold out, great, we'll put another guy in there. Our quarterback will hold it out for us. Not that they're not important, but a left tackle and those guys aren't gonna dictated. So I think more would like to think that they got that poll. But we're

at a point now, Ben think about it. Jerry Judy today says, oh, man love to have Deshaun Watson. He's got his quarterback under contract. He's a Denver Bronco. And instead of wait until Deshaun Watson gets traded if he does, he's talking about the Shawn as a Denver Bronco, how much it would be great and he'd love to play with him there, and he's got to go back in the locker room and deal with and Drew lock. Who

does that? I mean, I understand if the guy's a free agent not coming back, but who who does that? But that's where we're at. It just kind of go on Twitter say whatever you want going into Yeah, and could you imagine Drew Lock walking up to him and say, man, I'll tell you what. You're a good player. But I really love Henry Rut your college teammate, because he's better at the Raiders. He'd be better here. I'd love him and Stefan Bigs insteady. I mean, who who says this

and insitive? It's a matter of being respectful to your teammate and co worker. Yeah. Well, and Jerry Judy I that interview was legendary as we're doing this in real time because apparently he was really I don't know what was going on there, but he was a little out of it in the radio. Yeah, he was enjoying himself whatever he was doing there. But yeah, we've all had those interviews, right Sean, where you're you're doing university on the radio and they're just not they're not. I interviewed

Kareem ab Dul Jabbar one time. He was eating a sandwich and he did not stop while we were we were doing the interview. I was like, you know, those things happened from time to time. They do you know what we're all we're all guilty of. Sometimes you just heavily involved in something else. What are you going to? I'm with you by man and Jerry decided that Deshaun Watson was his teammate and that Drew Lock wasn't. But

hey for me to judge that right exactly exactly. Now, David Culley the coach, I'm gonna get off to the Texas here. But David Culley, this you talk about on the left field, like typically you know the drill, you and the coaches. There's a list of coaches that and you just pretty much picked from that list in the coaching hiring carousel. David Coley was not on anyone's list.

He was on no one's list. Now, what's the reaction been in town there in Houston to this guy who really didn't have any name value been around the NFL for a million years, Like, what's the reaction been? Has

it been as negative as I believe it's been? Kind of like going to the and and I don't mean this just kind of like going and you're like, oh, I wanted that meal, but okay, I'll get I'll get I'll get the the the ice cream that I get every time, right, And what I'm saying, I mean by that is it's just when when when the feeling was blah higher right, not except me, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. It's like he didn't put all the toppings on it and get Eric the enemy and

Robert Salom was gone. So the sextness of it. But you know what I have been I had the same thing as you. I knew about David Culley is an assistant because because I had of regarded but I didn't know. You know, it's it's I've ever been on a team he was on, or sat down and had a long conversation with him, so up about sex. He kind of sits in the middle of the on the ten range, right, that what talking him out. He's just kind of okay. He was the last one that anybody who brought. Most

people didn't know who he was. And not only in Aren't town, but you know, not most people. You don't know receiver coaches in the NFL, and so you start to ask questions and you start to hear people. So I asked Brian Mitchell played for him. I asked the Cleco's uh Cleco who played from Dan who played for him? And then uh Allum former coach Gary Kubiak, John Hardball and you eat every one of them square by him, and they all say leader engaging people respond, Now, I'm

not a guy. I don't I don't subscribe to you have to be a coordinator, never have to be a head coach. John Harball was a special team's coach under Andy and a defensive back to the coach got the job and everybody said, well, he's the other hardball. Well he's now the hardball and Jim's the other hardball right now. John's the hell of a coach, one of the best in the league. And it's how you're trained. Hey, you don't have to call plays. That's not a prerequisite in

my mind, some of it is. But more importantly, it's like, who's the sexy one? Most people don't even know Eric because he's on the Chiefs. The lead has been through it and he's earned it, and he's put himself in position to do all these interviews. Still surprised he's got hired, and I he was a guy I wanted. But you know what, I don't know how he doesn't interview sots, Like, of all the candidates there tom about eight ten people. He was one to oh, that's not gonna happen, and

it happened. So but I'm willing to give a guy a chance. And why is because resume sixty fives, so I can care less about a can reach the players a thirty or sixty five. And I have yet to talk to a person who said that he hasn't reached players. Guys. I'm talking about where there's a chasm, and I mean in age and everything. So I'm willing to getting a shot. And if he comes that highly regarded by these guys, we're never gonna know still whether he's thirty five year old,

two year old when got hired or whatever. Thirty year olds Shot McVeigh sixty five year old David call. I'm happy for him gets an opportunity after all these years. Of course you're gonna take it, and now you've got to seize the moment, go after it and hopefully put a full staff the comfortable with together. Those are the guys that need to be the excess and those guys,

those guys have been around. He might need a CEO who's a great leader of men and who maximizes the building and coaches his coaches and then empowers them to do their jobs. So I'm willing to see how this works out because I've seen plenty of great coordinators that sucked as head coaches. I've seen plenty of position coaches

that sucked his coordinators. So if you can lead men and get your coaches to coach, and there's accountability in the building and communication and trust, it'll w But I think for most part men, You're right that everybody's like, who who who is this? And it was just kind of the blaw higher. But I'm rooting for David Culley because you know what, after all this time to stay the course and nobody, nobody at sixty five things they're getting their first head coaching job. Usually they're saying, I

want my last head coaching job. So good for him, and I hope I hope he you know, grasps Houston, and I hope Houston and the fans grab onto him, and a lot of that will be part and parcel of what they do with the roster, which they don't have obviously their first time pick, because Hare has got his work cut out for shall what would you do

in Pittsburgh? Rothlisberger turns thirty nine in March and it would be a bad situation if they finished middle of the road seven and nine, eight and eight, nine and seven in the following year. But it almost feels like to me, this is like an Eli Manning situation. Not to say that he's as bad as Manning was towards the tail end of his career, but would either want to be really good and compete for a Super Bowl or be really bad and get a high draft high

draft pick. I mean they're neither of that, right, right, and and well that's the way truthfully then, And this is the France I have so much respect for. They're never gonna be the Steelers are always gonna hover. They got a great coach. The continuity of front office ownership, head coach, general manager, quarterback, the continuity for that franchise is but going on from Chuck Nolan brand, I mean

right on down the continuity. And you look around great franchises and all sports, the continuity from top down to your and you just your your manager. And although managers changed with the continuities, and especially in football, it just is not only on a position and go on the field, but in the pecking order of of of building a franchise, and the Steelers are always gonna be. That's how Ben

got there. Remember what was the eleven or ten or twelve pick somewhere in there where it was like, well does he go higher? He thought he was going higher, and he fell to Pittsburgh and it was the greatest fault that he could ever want. And like and Aaron Rodgers, you're saying, well, I'm not on a team that needs to rebuild. I'm on a team that needs you. And so for me, the Steelers here, I would do Ben still listen when he's health he still about four thousand

yards and thirty touchdowns in him. The movement's not quite the same the it's if there's something a little bit. They were more of a check down sideways team than the normal Ben Roethlisberger were used to most of the time. If it was me, I don't think Hapkins is a franchise quarterback. And now they got obviously, I don't believe that Mason Rudolph the franchise quarterback. I would keep Ben and I would go see how if I could find

a tree Lance. If you thought Mac Jones, who's a lot like Ben, smart, accurate with the football, big guy, not a great runner but underrated to get you a few extra yards. And he's been such a fast riser since he got a starting job, and he'll be the one that's drafted later in this draft of the first round, I would go draft the quarterback or possibly trade for Sam Donald. You know, if if the Jets are gonna go because Donald had a horrible coach in New York.

If Donald and I've talked about five, six, seven guys that are in the know that if he's played the position smarter than me, or in the in the front office or coached, that's all believed to a man that if Donald was coached right and on the right roster with better players, that that Donald is gonna be in the quote I quote unquote star in the league. They

believe he's got a big time upside. So if you could land a guy liked his appe man on a good roster with his arms, skills and his ability to move, this is pretty cool. So I would. I would then probably gonna come and start if he doesn't retire, but I would. It's time to start looking for the not not not just kind of the guy like Mason Rudolph or kind of a guy. It's time to go. Like Haskins, it's let's go get that guy, as Zach will in a trade lance that we think is our next guy,

and Pittsburgh is good at finding those guys. Speak about the next guy. Can you get into the mind of Andrew Luck? Do you think he comes back? You know, I talked to his dad about a year and a half ago, a little over a year ago, and he was peaceful with his decision. And the only thing about this sport at that position now I heay. I if somebody sits on here's a hundred bucks and here's the

odds and the underdog odds. If you're getting, you know, a bunch of money, You're going a bunch of bucks by betting two hundred bucks and a hundred bucks on Andrew Luck coming back, and you're gonna get great odds. I'd probably put it on there just for fun on a future's bet. I could see that. But you know, the longer you're removed from it, while you may be hungry, the more that the tougher effort is to get yourself

ready to play in the off seas. That's that's why guys like when when when players retired like a Philip Rivers. He can still throw for four thousand yards. The problem is all that off season work you gotta put in to try and stay ready, and it's the off seasons that are tougher grinding in the season because then you get to play in the competition. So I'm not ruling

out Luck because depending on how peaceful. If he's loving what he's doing, then he may he may not come back if he finds, you know, solid peace in this and he won't come back. But it was a bummer because I think with that offensive line, we were just starting to get a field for he was gonna have the players that you drafted him for a good offensive line, and you get Clinton Nelson and then you can build it and you get Leonard on defense, and you start to do this with a good front office guy. So

I'm not ruling it out. What a wild card that would be if he decided to come back, But he seems like he beats too A little bit different drum Mike Gutt would say if I was sitting there and he had and I had to pick on and I'd say that the guys, once he's walked away, is gonna stay away. But I think that a lot of guys in the city, you realize if you want to come back, to do it sooner than later, because once you're four or five years out, I honestly what you may be

able to regain it. It's really hard. This is that's a tough, especially if that position you gotta be all in or rubble. And if he's only and Andrew Luck, the Andrew Luck we saw before he left. I'll ask this because Ben is an absolute homer, but getting Stafford, getting getting Stafford, do you think that puts the Rams in that upper echelon that they can compete for a Super Bowl. I'll betch you. I'll bet you that Stafford

is in the m v P Talk next year. I'll bet you that that that McVeigh cuts him loose, meaning they does all the things that Stafford was one were able to do in the train because well they didn't have any players at no time when he was there did he have. You know, some guys will get into it and you're like, like, we say Pittsburgh, where they could run it and they had receivers, they played defense, they got the quarterback coaching staff. You're like, damn, this

is really cool. You know, one time he had Reggie Bush to rush over a thousand ducks and he had Megatroum but not a lot of other weapons. And then he had you know that the defense is trying to get better, but never dominant. He's never had a team where he walked in and said, all the best in the division. Now the Rams may I'll be the best in division cause us is there in a healthy forty

Niners team and kinda Murray. That's a brutal division. But with McVeigh, they got three of the best players that the top ten players who position. Donald's the best, Jalen Ramsey's top three, and Stafford is still a top ten guy because he can rip it. He's competitive, he's got high football skill set in i Q and rejuvenated man to get back into that and knowing that you're the guy. Yeah, And I don't know if he's gonna win Super Bowl, but they did upgrade and that's no disrespected Garrett Doll.

Matt's hafter, just a better player. So this this is we're just gonna be fun to watch, and I actually believe you're gonna see him. He will not shock me if he has his most peaceful season. But also his best season as a pro. And when you look at me, I think you out of the York season, he's taped full of forty had meaning ten picks, the tended twelve picks, forty touchdowns and sixties five percent, sixty six percent completed percentage and a QDR of you know, a hundred and

getting his team in the class. And once he gets in, remember that year he had when he every single game he was bringing teams back. He's a dangerous weapon, an assault from Allen and Mahomes. I don't think anybody in the league throws it has the army has. I still think in his early thirtie he's that guy. I think this is a great upgrade. And Sean McVeigh said, if we don't win drafts, but we don't want to, I don't care about when the trades. They care about winning

super Bowls. And it may have been a different you know, they may have been closer if Stafford was their quarterback then. And I think they learned a lot about Jared Goffer in their mind when they got rid of him, because they're probably not sure that he can handle the pressure of a Super Bowl. I hope he can, and I hope he succeeds because I root for him to Staffords a better player. So, Sean, where are you at on the draft picks? And I The main complaint against the

Rams is well, they have no first round picks. They're gonna go seven years without a first round pick because of all the trades they made. I have no problem with it because you can get players elsewhere in the draft. Where do you fall on that conversation that you know the Rams front office is to completely botch this because they keep trading where a first round picks. Listen, Stafford is better than the first one team pick the draft. Okay, hey listen, I I like assets too. We get so

caught up. Oh you've got a half picks? Did you look at the list since like two thousand and four, two thousand and six to two thousand and seven team, do you know that there's only one quarterback one of all the first rounders when we go to the I'm kind of bat to book the boatload up. It's on the same team he was on when he came into league. It's hard to find these guys, man, and Stafford was one of those going to stay in. It's Carson Wentz and Stafford's one of those guys and he just left,

so they're talking. It's hard. I can listen. I don't care about six years from now. I always get that wall. We're trying to build something for seven years from now. By that prime McBey will be fired if they could you know what saying I mean about thinking that. Listen the Kansas City Chief salary captain thinking of either they're thinking we're gonna win and milk this while we can and go get it. And you know what, they may

not have a first rounder for seven years. I guess who you can do what up all of a sudden two years Jalen Ramsey is all of a sudden thing, well maybe just it's different. Wants out shift him for a two seconds and then all of a sudden you go trade that for first Listen, there's always maneuvering, just like you can manipulate the salary cap. I'm not worried about what's going to happen, and honestly I'm not so I want to win now and if it doesn't work, we'll we group and do it again. The NFL, of

all the sports, you can turn this. You could be two and four team one year, like the text four and twelve, a player here six in play the game and a quarterback and guess what go from four and twelve? And it's get a little luck where you're not fumbling the ball to goal line against the Colts twice, and now you're a mate. And then the next year in the six back in the playoffs, so they well think

about it. In just a year and about two weeks ago this team was twenty four and nothing in the second corner over the Chiefs, and now look at him. So it can go up and it can go down. I I listen, I'd love assets, I'd love both, okay, But the truth for me is these people that get so caught up in first round picks go up and now listen, there's plenty a third round pick. Sure you'd

end up being better than the first round team. So I can live without him if I think I'm a super Bowl team now just giving them away and making stupid trades and tan guys that are free agents that are passed their best football, and then then you're just an idiot. You won't be long for your job. But I don't have one ounce a problem of them giving me too, getting given up a couple of first round

picks and another pick four Matt Stafford. If they think and then and Stafford's got five years by that time, they may have another first round of Matt staff for the thirty six thirty that he's done and he had his career, then go, you'll be time for another first round pick. Okay, you trade handing, there's a way to do it. I'm more interested in guys that can help me win over the next few years than I am

ten years from now. I could care less about that unless you got am home turn Watson you're building as a quarterback. I'm not worried about the first round pick in he right now isn't about the sixth grade, So I don't really care. Yeah, hey, Sean, we're up against it. I appreciate it. Continued success with your show. Who are you picking? On the Super Bowl? By the way, who

you got? I got August? I took Tampa Bay if I took Tampa Bay beat in Kansas City on my show and preseason predictions in August, So every now and I get something right, and that Brady is the MP. T All got the Tampa Bay Buccaneers thirty one dramatic Brady wins another m v P and went another Super Bowl. I'm going with Tampa Bay, all right, I'm going the other way. I'm taking the Chiefs. Listen, Sean. Continued success, Thanks for coming on, appreciate have a great weekend. You

guys are all keep casting it. Thanks for having me on. Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Miller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific,