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Hello, I am Elsie Escobar Director of Community and Content for Libsyn and this is episode 281 of The Feed The Official Libsyn Podcast, the podcast that takes it beyond how to podcast into keeping you podcasting with podcasting tips and information for the everyday podcast and taking you inside Libsyn, dear ones, this show is built by your voices, your questions, your feedback and your conversations. We would love to hear from you. It's so simple, right? Email the show.
Here's the email, thefeedatlipsyn.com. That to your email client and whenever you want to talk back to us, have an idea that comes up, have a question, you can write to us or you can open up voice memos and send your thoughts over with a couple of tabs. There's also another way and that is pure promotion, pure promotion on your end. Send us your promo for your show or for an episode that you've got either already produced or coming up, have it be for 30 seconds to about 60-ish seconds.
We love to add them to eat an every episode. Again, super simple. Email thefeedatlipsyn.com with the file. You can also call us out for 1, 2, 5, 7, 3, 19, 34 or use SpeakPipe at SpeakPipe.com slash the feed. It's first come first serve so the sooner you get your info to me, the sooner I'll get you in the queue. And now onto our main conversation with Rob Waltz, VP of podcast or relations at Lipsyn as well as my co-host right after a little note from a friend of the show.
How ol' Ella Hanau, Lipsyn, that's happy birthday in Hawaiian. This is Kamuela Kanashiro with Legends From The Pacific. Thank you so very much Rob, LC, Dave and the rest of the Lipsyn family. Where are you due for us podcasters? Hello Rob. Good generic time of the day LC. How are you? Oh, today is actually one of the coldest days that we have had in my Naka the Woods. And I have to wear more clothes now and be cold outside. Cold as in Frost, cold as in... No, not quite that cold.
I would say 50s a little on the upper 50s wet cold yesterday was very windy in the evening. So it's a little, you know, it's showing it's the way it's supposed to be, you know, fall. It has been a warm fall, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so then, but look at me, we're recording what is this? November, what? I can't even, I don't even know. 14th. 14th? Yeah. This is the first time that I'm feeling, oh my God, it's cold. But alas, here we are Rob, two weeks after we recorded the other episode.
But before we get into some thoughts around what happened after we recorded the episode, you've got some reminders and you'll reminder of what's happening with Apple.
Yeah, we had, normally we do this a little earlier and but Apple put out their little minor and this is for anyone that's planning to launch a new show, a channel subscription, this is from Apple, quote, if you plan to submit new channels or subscriptions in November or December, please be mindful of the following periods, November 23rd to December 1st, 2024 and December 24th, 2024 to January 1st, 2025.
Those are when Apple will be closed and I would really say that January 1 usually goes like January 3 or 4. But anyway, new channels or subscriptions submitted during these windows may not be available within our regular timeframe and responses to support inquiries may be slightly delayed. New shows and episodes of existing shows are unaffected, plan accordingly and submit any new content with this in mind, unquote.
And again, I would just say if you plan to launch a new show or here obviously create a channel or a subscription and you want it ready for the new year, you really, really, really December 10th. December 10th. That should be your timeline, anything after that, hit or miss. So that's just my recommendation for anyone that wants a new podcast, they're available on January 1st for the world, submit by December 10th or channel or subscription.
And then some news in the podcast sphere, this from a letter that was sent out to blog talk radio users, quote, as of January 31st, 2025, blog talk radio will no longer be operating and we have to say goodbye to you are loyal users. We are so thankful for the support and creativity that you have brought to our platform on quote and that's from blog talk radio. If you are on blog talk radio and looking for a new home, we can get you set up on that.
Email robatlipson.com or you can contact support at lipsonsupport.com. You can even use promo code. We'll get a promo code to get you two months free. So just email me. I'll get you that promo code. I'm going to make one up for blog talk radio folks. Don't have that yet. But robatlipson.com I'll get you that promo code and get you two months free if you're moving over from blog talk radio. Wow, a long time.
I've even gone over to blog talk radio but back in the day, it was now I met a lot of friends. You have to have been long time in the space. Yeah, for sure. All right, so are we ready to follow up on some election? Talk my God podcasting has getting. It's like the cool girl or the bad girl, depending on your perspective. Definitely I've read way too many articles in the last month. You like that.
Look, it's this first one you sent over and the first two actually and the first one I really liked it. I thought it was a good one. I thought it did a good job on it. It was titled How Trump won the first influencer election. And the one quote from the article that really stood out to me was the following. This is from a Brendan Gahan CEO of creator authority and influencer marketing agency who has done work with democratic politicians. So this is again someone coming from the democratic side.
He goes quote Harris approach the creators as media channels rather than as collaborators, which is the biggest misstep marketers make when working with influencers. Trump immersed himself in creative culture, met them where they were and embraced their mediums. Unquote.
And that goes on to you've heard the reports about Harris's team paying $100,000 to set up a studio at a hotel for caller daddy and then having her come out rather than going to her place in LA and then wanting to get on Rogan, but only if Rogan came to her and under her conditions and things like that. And her team did not clearly understand and embrace the medium. And that's again, what this person saying and you can read that in many different things.
And you can see the quotes from Rogan has come out and talked about saying, Hey, all I wanted to do was get her on the show. All she had to do was be here. She was in Texas invited her to come over while she was in Texas and our team didn't embrace. Before we go to the next one, any comments on this? I think that there's another layer that we're still trying to figure out. So Harris and Trump as candidates, I'm going to call them like the A-listers. Okay, just for the sake of this argument.
They're I'm going to call them the A-listers. And then I'm going to call obviously the influencers and influencers, the collaborators. And I feel that right now as a culture, we're still figuring out what the balance is between the A-listers and the collaborators. We're trying to figure out where the boundaries are between access and really truly becoming entrenched.
And I don't discount that Trump did immerse himself in the creator culture and he met them where they were and embraced their mediums. I don't discount that, but that doesn't always work because the collaborator side of it can also be there's a volatility with working in that way. And you can't just do all in as in you're walking in and I'm just let's just collaborate with everybody. And we're all the same and we're I'm just going to fly into all these places, right? That's not cool.
And also in terms of the Harris point of view where they wanted to control everything, that's also not the only way to do it. There has to be a balance between and as of right now we don't know what that is yet. I would say that Trump's team won this round on that balance. I mean, obviously, obviously his team did better.
And we'll get into I'll have some more comments here, but I mean, if you want to look at how the two teams worked in that working out that balance clearly Trump's team did a better job. Yes. And here's the thing. I think that the challenge is that the creator slash influencer culture is shifting and changing really fast. So you have got to have your hand on the pulse and at any moment any creator can do something that is fundamentally problematic for the a listers as I'm setting that up, right?
You have to look at it different than your marketing, I'll widget. And I think Harris's team looked at clips in short form and they were just trying to introduce a widget rather than really getting in depth with who she was. Some influencers and Instagrammers are great for hey, here's a product. The key there is just getting word out about it, but that wasn't the case. She didn't need to get word out. She needed to get in depth.
And I think Trump's team did a better job at approaching it from an in depth perspective where her team didn't. And I think we're going to get into the audience of that as well, right? Because I think that it's that was a big player in this that it was the in depth of it. It's not necessarily that we that supported her were the ones that needed to get to know her a little better. It was one of those things that it was we that didn't support her, right?
It's like it's one of those bits that balance between those two things. All right. So in user mag.co, it is a new media, not I can't say new media, but it's a new media magazine that is essentially more independent in in a little bit very much leaning towards the younger demographics and the future of media also had a more same author by the way, Rob. I don't know if you knew that, but of the Hollywood reporter piece and the user mag.
The title of that the one in user mag was why Democrats won't build their own Joe Rogan unquote. And the I'm going to read a couple quotes out of this article quote while the right has spent years fostering a symbolic relationship with alternative media. The left has failed to replicate anything like it.
There are simply no progressive content creators with Rogan's cultural impact and online following and a quick look at the podcast charts or trending channels on YouTube shows disparity between conservative versus progressive creators reach online unquote.
And then she ends with this quote, you know, the end of the article quote, ultimately, there will never be a Joe Rogan of the left or Nell boys of the left because there is no funding or institutional democratic support to even begin to form such a network. There appears to be zero appetite from the Democratic Party establishment to embrace left leaning populist messaging and policies unquote.
And this article like and many others like it I read this past week are fundamentally flawed in some key ways. One, the Democrats had their own Joe Rogan and his name was Joe Rogan. If you don't believe me, if that guy like go back five years and listen to episode 1330 when he interviews Bernie Sanders, there is no way anyone who listens to that can say Joe was anything but a Democrat.
I mean, if you listen to that episode, that's the only conclusion you can come to when you listen to that and others from that era and his subsequent endorsement of Bernie, by the way, the other flaw, a big flaw is that there are comments that there are no left leaning podcasts like the right has. It's just plain wrong. I mean, and frankly, it's an insult to some of the great work done over the past 20 years by left leaning podcasts and networks.
There was a time when actually there was no right leaning podcasts of mass. I remember when we hosted Dan Bungino and Sean Hannity's podcast and my podcast today and I us had more downloads per episode than both of those combined. So there was a time where it was left leaning podcasts were the top. And by the way, it's very, very clear the author, the article really didn't know the space and what's available.
And it, she did not mention daily costs, the young Turks, the Midas Touch Network, Democracy Now, WTF Mark Marren Club, Random with Bill Mar, the Bullwork, the David Pakman Show, Joe Budden Podcast, the Al Franklin Podcast, Bullseye with Jesse Thorn and his Maximum Fun Network, Bill Burz Mundi Morning Podcast and many, many others on the left that have a good size audience and lots of influence. Yes, Rogan is bigger than them all, but he's a unicorn.
Up until recently was on the left leaning side. And if you look at the top 10 news podcasts right now, last month, six lean left, four lean right, and if you expand it out to the top 30, this is from Podtrack, 18 lean left and only 12 lean right. So saying that there's not these left leaning podcasts that are of size is just, is insulting to all the hard work that's been done by the left leaning podcasts out there.
I mean, to be blunt, what happened with the election was not a lack of viable left or center leaning podcast for Harris to go on. It was a lack of her team to embrace those podcasts and get on them. They simply did not take podcasting seriously. And that was, in my opinion, a big mistake. That is not Monday morning court abacking because it's exactly what I said and was concerned about on the last episode that was really recorded and released before the election results came out.
And go back and listen to episode 280, if you want to hear my original thoughts on this. And I also can tell you behind the scenes, I had been concerned about this for a few, a couple, I mean longer. And at the end of the day and politics, the candidate that wins is the one that by definition ran a better campaign. And this time the winner is the one that openly embraced podcasting and the loser is the one whose team for the most part did not embrace podcasting. Those are facts.
The biggest concern for the Harris campaign in the 100 days, which was from period time, leading up to the election was that people did not know who she who Harris was. And podcasting was really the best way to have a long form conversation to get out who she was was podcasting decided in fact in the election, most likely not, but was it a factor, absolutely 100% yes. And I am sure that this will be dissected every which way to Tuesday over the next three plus years.
I agree with that that it was not like one thing that's just working me is that it was, it's too much. You guys, it's not because of Joe Rogan, okay? It was a factor, right? There was so much about this. This was a factor.
Here's where I feel there is a I feel a misunderstanding with a lot of folks that are also covering the medium right now in the same way that you're saying that, you know, in that last article that they didn't know about these other podcasts that had existed and have existed and just that the legacy of the left leaning podcast out there because that is true. It actually does have a stronger legacy from way back in the day.
Those networks and podcasts were stronger from the get go in podcasting history. Right now what's happening when folks are now hearing the word podcast all the time, they don't necessarily go back to that. They're going to YouTube. They're going to Joe Rogan and that's where they stop. I really challenge that folks know anything outside of that. I really challenge that they're able to name.
This is the everyday human that's starting to listen to podcasts that they even know that podcasts can be audio only. And I know that that's a really harsh statement to make, especially for the new folks, but that's where they're leaning.
And so when they from folks, new people start to write about podcasting maybe within the path after 2020, they're writing about podcasts from 2020 on not even 2019, not even prior to that, not even from the big chat of what happened in podcasting in 2014, but they're talking about it from 2020. And so it becomes a different conversation. And there is a misunderstanding of the medium overall as well as any evolving definition of what it means to the populace.
So that's why I think that there's a difference in that. That doesn't mean that all people get what's happening according to you, right, Rob? Yeah, no, no, they do not. One person in particular that has never liked podcasts was also a consultant for the Harris campaign and goes by the name of Mark Cuban. You may have heard of him. And here's what Mark Cuban said since the election on threads per podcasting.
And this was yesterday, I guess, some time where we're the last two days and he said, quote, podcast greatest impact is from their clips that are distributed on social media. In my opinion, young men don't have the attention span for the whole thing. They scan through it or are doing five different things while they listen, unquote. Honestly, that's a little kind of really insulting and completely misses the boat.
Cliffs are good for letting you know about long form content and driving traffic to long form content. But to say young men or any group has not have the attention span for the whole thing is demeaning and just wrong and and the stats in podcasting for long form content bear out how wrong Mark is. I mean, those are the most popular podcasts for the most part. I've been long form.
We've been talking about that for years on this podcast saying it doesn't matter your length, but don't think long form is going to hurt you. Matter of fact, long form has always been the more popular. I'm going to comment on that really quickly.
I think that the short clips, yes, they do sometimes lead to the long form content, but they do carry message, the message proliferation, the talking points, they're really good at that, meaning that you hear the language and you can repeat it to your people, right? That's what short form content is. It's making things small, being able to get that message out broader.
Now in terms of the long form content, when he said they scan through it or are doing five different things while they listen, okay, listen, I do five different things while I listen. I do five different things. Every time I'm listening to a podcast, I'm literally doing five things. That's the joy of it. It's the joy. Power of podcasting. It's the power of podcasting. Absolutely. And thus sitting in front of a video and watching a podcast does not affect me as it does when I'm out in the world.
Because when I'm out in the world, I remember things. I'm driving in the on this street. I'm doing my grocery shopping at Whole Foods. I'm doing like all of these different things and I have I get triggers, meaning when I walk in there and I'm not listening to a podcast, I'll go, oh, this is where I was listening to XYZ and they said XYZ, I have a memory in my life of how a podcast has affected me as I live. So that is a big miss in terms of that.
Yes, all of us are having a hard time focusing on doing one thing at once, but that's the joy of the podcast. Anyway, continue on. Well, since Mark has his head placed where it is, let's look at some more comments from Mark and this was another one a few days before that. Quote, podcasts were only indirectly relevant in my opinion.
It was the nonstop algorithmic driven reinforcement of the echo chamber we all step into on social media, young men of any demo, we're not going to see clips of Kamala Harris in between clips of sports cars, fantasy football and girls, even if she did Rogan, Theovan, Nell, Barler's, etc. Trump's clips would make it in that mix some because the topics like the assassination attempts and things, guys were more interested in. So again, it just really, really believe he does not get podcasting.
If this echoes Mark's comments, by the way, and advice to the Harris campaign, then it can likely be looked at as one of the reasons her team failed in embracing podcasting. They had someone that has never liked podcasting advising them. Remember, this is the same Mark Cuban that went to podcast movement and dist podcasting in front of all the podcasters. Just saying, it is clear from everything Mark's written over the years, he does not like podcasting.
And on the other side, Trump had his son going, Dad, you got to get on these podcasts. Yeah. And the thing about what he said there is I do agree about the algorithm driven reinforcement of the echo chambers. But that is absolutely 100% true. But again, it's not about clips and the algorithm is about her getting her messaging out and introducing who she was in long form content. And that was the biggest weakness and concern on the democratic side is that people didn't know who she was.
And here they had a medium that was perfect for getting out who she was for her to sit down and really talk in a conversational method and a way that you can't do in any other medium. And her team didn't embrace it. They didn't embrace the right podcasts. They didn't embrace long form, they three podcasts and they were not good interviews overall. I mean, they were not bad, but they weren't good and they didn't let you know she was. And there was nothing and there was shorter podcast interviews.
It was almost nothing in them that you didn't hear when she did Oprah or any of the other things that were other mainstream media. Whereas her team turned down the opportunity for her to get out there on Rogan and other long form where she really could have gotten her messaging out. And I think that's the part that was missed. Not quarterbacking. It's exactly what we said before it happened. You said that correct. Absolutely.
I mentioned the whole algorithm in part and the short form video content. Now in the same way though that you just mentioned that podcasting wasn't really the deciding factor, but it was a factor. I also bring back that the impact of the algorithms and the echo chambers and the same clips coming up and down and that ownership of that algorithm that starts to manipulate really. We all fall into it. It starts to manipulate reality for us and we start to see what we are clicking on as the reality.
And if she had done the long form, she would have had a lot more clips available. Right. But all I'm saying is that the algorithms are helped with that is all I'm saying. I'm saying that they're also apart. So in the same way that it wasn't a deciding factor and they weren't the deciding factor, they were a factor in addition to the other things, right? That's all I'm bringing up. That it's not just this or that.
That there is the creator model and who we are talking about here in terms of the podcasters and what they can do, they really have a skill of being able to repurpose their content and get that message out. Then the opposite, meaning the posing sides of everything can also grab that content repurpose it and use it for themselves as well. So there's like all kinds of things that are factors in getting the word out. Right. We just don't know what those clips may have been.
Which had gone on Rogan or Joe Budden or Club random. But there would have been clips. There would have been these little sound bites that would have come out of those interviews that didn't happen. So they weren't available. So they weren't there. Yeah. Here's another Monday morning quarterbacking. Oh no. Okay. I'm going to defend us. We, some of these things that people are saying now, we both talked about these things before. We're not going to. But Pat has something back a little bit.
These were things we were concerned about. Yes. We have talked about it. We did talk about it for sure. I'm just saying that this following article again, all the articles that we're looking at right now are after the fact. It's as somebody all of a sudden turned back and went, hey, you know podcast. Yeah. Oh, good lord. Okay. This is from another post election from Scott Galloway and he said, here's some data in terms of the things that he mentioned there.
Quote, almost half of adult Americans, 136 million people listened to at least one podcast a month. The global audience is now 505 million. A quarter of the internet's reach when Trump went on Joe Rogan, like Friedman and the past weekend with the Ovan. He was embracing the manosphere and writing a tectonic shift in media, the most efficient way to reach the largest and most persuadable audience. A he young man is via podcast. Nothing comes close and quote, Rob, nothing comes close.
Those men, those young ones. But also I actually brought this quote here because I want your take. I want your take on this prediction from Scott about podcast advertising because I know you have a track record for this kind of stuff and you're you've got a lot of historical knowledge about this. So here's the quote, quote podcast share of attention is well ahead of their share of ad revenue. This delta will converge.
I believe podcast revenue is going to grow faster than that of every other digital platform with a possible exception of tiktok. My guess is that next year's pods ad revenue will grow by 20 plus percent. Listenership will continue to grow as well.
And the arpe who like those of meta and alphabet will increase dramatically to is advertisers discover this is where young successful consumers have been hiding podcast CPMs now are about 18 for 18 dollars for a 30 second ad and 25 dollars for a 60 second ad. And quote, yes, I agree with this. The ROI on podcasting has always been better than in other mediums.
And I think this will bring attention obviously to podcasting and people are saying, wow, if podcasting could influence in some way, the election again, we're not saying it's the factor, but we're saying it's a factor, then it could influence my potential consumers. And on top of that, it's also going to make some podcast advertisers that were not willing to advertise on right leaning podcasts go well, if the popular vote was now over 50 percent to the right.
And I'm not advertising on those podcasts. I'm not doing my company a service. And I think you're going to see more money come into right leaning podcast that had up until the selection shied away from being on the right for fear of being canceled for you know, a lot. I think you're going to see more advertisers. It's not going to be just the my pillow guy anymore on some of these right leaning podcasts. I think it's going to give them an opportunity.
And then I think that's going to spare that out into all of podcasting. And if you look at there was a study that was done, if you spend a thousand dollars on terrestrial radio, how much would you have to spend on other mediums to get a similar impact? And in podcasting you'd only have to spend eight hundred and ninety six dollars. And this is from Adelaide Audioactive. They did this recently.
Whereas on Facebook, if you wanted to get a thousand dollars worth of impact you got from radio, you'd have to spend twenty six hundred and thirty five dollars. And in LinkedIn, you'd have to spend twenty one hundred and five. And TikTok, you have to spend two thousand. So TikTok, you still have to spend twice as the amount that you have to spend on radio and almost two and a half times what you have to spend on podcasting to get the same impact. So I think he's right.
While TikTok will continue to grow, I think the ROI for those that choose podcasting and I'm biased. But you know, there is data though. This show this is better in podcasting. And again, this is the Adelaide twenty twenty four outcomes guide is the source of this. And they will give this credit though to YouTube YouTube, you only have spend six hundred and ninety eight to get the same impact as Terrestrial Radio.
But that could be a large part because they're advertising on podcast that are on YouTube. There's another quote after this, the old where Scott just mentions that, you know, I'm going to read this and then I'll make my comment here. Quote, by some estimates of the six hundred thousand podcasts that produce content each week, the top ten get half the revenue put another way to build a business in podcasting that pays people well and keeps the attention of a host with high opportunity costs.
You likely need to be in the top point one percent by leeson, listenership and quote. The six hundred K numbers wrong. The number of podcasts that create content and release at least one episode in the last ninety days is actually around four hundred and twenty K. So it's not six hundred K each week. His numbers high there. But if you want to make money and an opportunity, you need to be in the top one percent really not top point one. Now quit your day job.
Obviously, yeah, because he said right there, he said to build a business in podcasting that pays people well and keeps the attention of a host with high opportunity costs. So he was very specific when he said that. That's why he said point one percent. He didn't say make money podcasting. He said, pays people well. And meaning you have a team, you're building something off of the money and you can sustain it. You hire people to help you do the thing, not you. So that's why I'm saying.
And so so my concern is that to your point that there are more advertisers possibly coming and then being more open to spend in right leaning shows because of the reach and all of that. My concern is that wealth of advertising revenue that's coming into the space is going to stick to that upper echelon.
And there isn't going to be any of that shared with not even the lower tiers, but just like the, you know, the ones that are the bulk of content, the ones that are anywhere from 200,000 downloads, preposite per month to maybe 100,000 downloads per episode per month. Well, there's a different ways to look at where that money goes.
And from big corporations that are coming in trying to do a branding play and they have a big budget, they tend to skew towards bigger shows because there's less shows for them to vet on the issue of brand suitability. But most advertisers can't afford the biggest shows. They can't afford to get on the biggest shows. So they will look to get on smaller shows if they want a really to be a host red endorsement.
You can't buy a single ad read on some of the bigger shows without, in some cases, bust in your whole budget if you're a midsize company. So in those cases, they'll look at adjacent podcasts that are in the same genre, ones that people listen to those bigger shows also listen to them. So we do see that. Again, I do think it's a tied rises all boats type situation. Will the majority of money still go to the bigger podcast? Of course it will. Just as it always has.
There's always a disparity from the top down is never a linear play for the money. But there will be more money available for people that are getting 20,000 and 40 and 50,000 downloads in episode than there was before. And I think we're going to see that in short order, my opinion. But I don't think it's only going to go to the top point one. I think again, a lot of it will. A lot of it already only goes to the top.
And that again comes back to that the big brand, our agencies that go out and do big buys, they would rather buy from four or five shows than 40 or 50 shows. But it depends on who the advertiser is and DR advertisers find that midsize shows actually get them better results than the bigger shows. So they tend to look in that 20 to 50 K, 100 K range per episode. In mid to your shows and advertising world that is at the 20 to 100 K, not in podcasting in general, just ones for advertising.
My hope is that it starts to trickle down. My hope is that there is an understanding of what that looks like. And I think the other aspect is that this is my take, by the way, I have no data to justify this statement. That podcast listeners that listen to highly influential shows, even the smaller ones, especially the niche ones, especially the ones that have really small audiences that are tackling very specific niche conversations.
The folks that listen to those niche conversations are themselves influencers in the space. So even if you have 200 downloads per episode for a month, let's say that's just saying that name to number just because. But let's say those 200 people, all are influencers in their own spaces that listen to an advertising, that advertiser that are influenced by that podcast to take action. And however that might be, that impact is going to be by far so much more than if it's just the every man, right?
The every person that's listening to a podcast for those higher, more generalized podcasts out there because that influence isn't going to be as strong. That's just my take on it simply because I know and I have seen this over and over again, when you have a highly influential niche leader that has a podcast and their audience, although small in terms of volume, they have massive amount of influence all the way around because people influence people and there's that word of mouth.
So their podcasts might not grow, but their message can absolutely do so and their products and services do so as well, which is where the advertising comes in too. There's a lot of power to that. I agree. All right. So now we have another bit of gigantic news that just came out last week, not last week as we're recording, but last week to you all who are consuming this podcast. It seems that Spotify is looking to be YouTube now Rob, like straight up. Yeah. And you know who like that news? Who?
Wall Street. Oh, did Wall Street really love it? Yeah. Oh my God. I did not even make, I did not even pay attention to that. Spotify's stock jumped like 15%. Oh my God. Since this broke in like two days. What? So yeah. So Wall Street and full and fair disclosure, I own some Spotify stock. Yes. Wall Street liked it. So I guess I liked it too then. So I own stocking out a bunch of companies. So Apple, Facebook, Netflix, just to be full and fair disclosure.
Since I've we've talked about those companies in the past. Just get that out there. They are looking to do more and more of a play on the video side and more importantly, I guess to monetize on that video side. Mm-hmm. Yep. I think that that's where the key to this really moves on. So I think one of the biggest news and it's number one, Spotify keeps rebranding their offering to podcasts, right? It was anchor, then it was Spotify for podcasters, then it was something else.
There was something else in there that popped in and now they are Spotify for creators. They have a, it's not about podcasters anymore. It's not a podcasting thing. It's a creators thing. So they are really trying to expand the language to hit all those folks who are on TikTok creating short form video. They are looking for all of the YouTube people, the folks who are on YouTube and do not have a podcast. They just are YouTubers.
They're looking to get those folks to also step into Spotify to create or at least upload their content. They're also still kind of calling out that you could still have a video podcast if you will on Spotify, even if you host your audio podcast somewhere else and you don't host it on Spotify. So they are kind of putting that out there that it's not, they're literally saying everybody come to us and upload your stuff.
The way that this is going to work according to everything that I've read is absolutely 100% based on engagement and consumption primarily through platform, but they're also saying that they're depending upon the deal, right? Because you do have to be part of the creators and the Spotify partner program. You have to be accepted to that. I tried to look at what the terms for that were and I just didn't want to deal with having just, I had to sign into Spotify. I haven't looked at all that stuff.
And I believe that they give you a choice on whether or not to monetize your content just within Spotify or if you want to also expand that into every time and add, place in an episode on and off platform that all you have to do is to let them know where you want the ads to play and they'll take care of the rest is according to what they they mentioned there. So that is a interesting thing. You do have to qualify and it is going to be based on engagement and consumption.
And thus, what does that make you do as a producer? I think overall making money in more places for anybody who's creating content is a great thing. I think what's challenging here is what it's we are already so confused by what we should be telling people to do, right? Hey, follow us on Apple Podcasts, follow us on Spotify, watch the YouTube. Now you can also watch the you to the Spotify video. So where are we telling people to go?
And I'm in the Spotify for Podcasts and I'm in a very popular podcast that's over there as it gets a lot of downloads per episode. And there's a place where it says upload a clip, upload a video. So there's a place where you can go in there. Now I want to go into one that's not as popular on Spotify. Oh, our podcast. Let's see if we have the same options. Oh, yes. So even us. Even us. Even us. So five to the five people, you know what?
You all all of you who listen on Spotify just reach out to me. I want to know who you are like legitimately. Maybe I'll see if I can get you a teacher to the three listeners from the great. I know you all listen. All you hardcore Spotify consumers. So the good news is the upload a clip, the upload a video option at podcasters.spotify.com which now when you go there, it redirects. And now it's called creators.spotify.com, but podcasters.spotify.com still get you there.
It does have the option even for the lowly like us on Spotify to upload a clip or upload a video. So you can actually do both. So you can upload the full video of an episode to go along with your audio episode. And again, you clearly don't have to be hosting there. This podcast isn't and you can upload that clip. And then there's the option to share. So when you go to your episode list, go to the three dots at the end and they click on that and you can see the options. So there you go.
And you can customize video thumbnails for every episode too. So that's the other thing as well that you can do there. You can do that for all of your artwork for each of your episodes on Spotify as well or really shows them really nicely. But now you can do the video thumbnails as well for every episode which is nice. And so this is just a quote from the tech crunch article and I'm only bringing this up again. We already mentioned this by the way.
But I just want to reiterate that the money is it magically going to happen? Y'all. It's not going to magically happen. So here we go. Quote. Spotify announced on Wednesday that it will start paying podcast hosts who make popular videos on its streaming platform as a company looks to take on YouTube dominance in the video podcast space. Although creators can already monetize their podcast on the platform.
They are now being incentivized to publish a video component alongside their podcasts by paying podcast hosts based on how much engagement their shows receive. Spotify is borrowing a page out of YouTube's book and quote. So basically I believe I don't know if anybody who is listening to us right now has a show that they've decided to start to put on YouTube and begins to now understand that there is a whole method to being able to grow a show on YouTube that is based on everything
that has to do with YouTube, which includes the content, but includes thumbnail, it includes titling, it includes tags, it includes hooks, it includes click through rate, it includes retention rate and how much you are then promoted within the YouTube ecosystem. It's an entire science to be able to do that.
So now you have another platform that you are also going to have to scientifically dissect to see what works there because again, you're going to get paid based on how much engagement of your show receives in platform. So I just want to call that out because it's not just as simple as this versus that, although it is kind of exciting. And just want to remind people our next episode will be in three weeks. We're going to take a week off.
We're not recording the week of Thanksgiving, so it'll be following that. So we're not going to record again until the Thursday after Thanksgiving. So we're going to be three weeks before the next episode. Just give it a heads up. So we had a PR come out that we didn't mention on the last episode. I wanted to get that in because we were running out of time. So we're going to get it in this one.
And this is from Mike Duncan's revolutions exclusively partners with Lipson to enhance podcast advertising experience. And this is from in October, Lipson announced an exclusive multi-year advertising partnership with revolutions, a highly acclaimed podcast hosted by New York Times bestselling author, Mike Duncan. Lipson also serves as the hosting platform for revolutions and is the exclusive hosting and ad partner for Duncan's the history of Rome. Both are like the greatest podcast.
They people ask me which ones I listen to and recommend if people getting podcasting I love revolutions personally and in history of Rome. So you know, along with hardcore history, those are my favorite ones. So anyway, just as a point side there, Mike Duncan's award winning podcast series. And I should say this, you really, really want to list the revolutions. If you only listen to one of the series and he covers different revolutions, listen to the one on Haiti.
He will be so mad at your social studies, teachers and high schools for not ever addressing that topic because you had no idea. Anyway, sorry, I have to average. Let me get back into the press release. Mike Duncan's award winning podcast series, the history of Rome, meticulously chronicles the entire history of the Roman Empire over 189 episodes, massing over 50 million downloads and receiving an Apple podcast best of award.
And I should point this out, if you're going to see Gladiator 2 and you come back and you're really feeling like you need a more of a Rome fix, this is your Rome fix. So yeah, for anybody that goes out and sees Gladiator 2, you want to check out the history of Rome. It hasn't changed. Even though there hasn't been any new episodes recently, he covered the history. So go and listen. It really gives you a really good insight on the history of Rome.
Duncan said, quote, I'm thrilled to take my relationship with Libson to the next level, a true leader in podcasting to connect with advertisers that resonate with our audience and expand our listener base. Libson's innovative tools enable us to enhance the ad experience and connect with our history, loving audience with brands that share our passion for historical storytelling, making it a win-win for everyone involved.
The partnership utilizes Libson's ads, advanced advertising solutions, featuring both host red and automatic ads offering these ad integrations enable podcast creators to incorporate premium programmatic ads into their host red program seamlessly by leveraging Libson's ads comprehensive advertising platform. Revolutions will deliver target and it adds that resonate with their audience and drive results for advertisers.
Andy Rojars, Senior Director of Publishing and Partnership at Libson said, quote, Mike has built one of the most compelling and respected podcasts with revolutions at Libson. And we're excited to bring brands into the conversation with deeply engaged audiences and the best podcast creators in the business driving real results with top tier creators like Mike Duncan are on our team. The opportunities are truly limitless on quote.
Libson adds and power brands to effectively target and reach a fast growing and coveted podcast audience and helps creators to monetize their audio and video content, the ad buying and management platform delivers end to end capabilities streaming the process for podcast advertisers to initiate and oversee highly targeted and measurable campaigns while providing maximum return for creators. Unquote and probably one of my worst PR reads ever. Sorry about that marketing team.
FY anyone wants to advertise on the revolutions podcast or history or just contact me robetlipson.com and revolutions get a new series season coming out, which I thought it was over and then it's back and so I was so excited about that. But again, just the whole history of Rome with the gladiators too. I can't wait to see gladiators too. So I'm going to go see that on November 23rd with the whole family. We're going to put planning on that. All right.
One other item here as we're getting late to the episode before we get to stats, it's kind of stats, but this is actually I be related. I be and others urged court to reconsider ruling that curved section 230. So that's the title. This is from media post.
The I be and others are asking I would say imploring a federal appellate court to rethink a ruling from the summer that significantly curb the protections of section 230 of the Communications Decency Act in August a three judge panel of the third circuit court of
appeal said in a very questionable decision that section 230 didn't protect tiktok from liability for allegedly showing user created block out challenge videos to a preteen girl from the I be quote if allowed to stand the panel decision could create substantial uncertainty for every website on the internet that this mantles user created speech on quote if only there was someone that owned a content site with user generated content that had the ear of the incoming president.
Well, while the events are are said around this case, that is not a reason to throw out section 230 which by the way, we basically need to have in place to have a vibrant and sustainable internet media landscape that includes user generated content, IE podcast videos and more. So hopefully the I be and others will be able to get this decision reversed. This is not good for podcasting or any user generated content platform out there.
I'm sure we're going to hear more about that in the year to come. I know idea which way the new administration is leaning, but I do know one person that has an ear of the administration that definitely is in his best interest to get the section 230 back. Yeah, it's like a that's a lot. It's a big discussion. Yeah, I also have no vibe as to what could be happening with section 230, but it's something to keep an eye out on.
So who gets nominated to the FCC, it's going to be really interesting to see that because I'm getting political here, but the last Trump administration, the FCC chairman was putts. I'm going to leave it at that. That person was horrible. And I'm hoping to whoever the new person is is much, much better on hoping in a prayer. Oh my God. Okay. In your crust. Okay. In your crust. Okay. Here we go. Okay. We don't believe we have any promos today. Right.
We know any promos and we're going to actually do all the stats. So we're going to do the median, the mean we're going to get into user agent because this is the only episode we're really recording in the month of November. So I'm going to get them both. And then the next time we come back, we'll do median and mean. So the next episode will have median mean for November, but now we're going to or actually from October because we always off by month. All right.
So this is the median mean numbers to see how your show measures up or your client show. The median mean numbers are based on all episodes released on lips and in lips and pro in the month of September with downloads measured until the end of October. On average, each file was about 45 days old. This is again per all shows hosted on lips and in lips and pro. The median number for September was 125. This was down a bit from the 128 in August.
And the adjusted mean average where I throw out the top half percent and any files with three or less downloads, the adjusted mean for September was 1132 down a bit from August when it was 1151. 5.7% of all downloads for episodes released in September were in the 5K range or greater. That was down a smidge from the August where it was 5.8%. And then here are some numbers to measure against again to put things perspective.
If your episodes are getting over 125 downloads after 30 days, you're better than half the shows. If you're getting 500 downloads, you are better than 71.9% of the shows puts you in the top 28.1%. If you're getting a thousand downloads, you are better than 80%. If you're more than 2600, you're better than 90%. If you are more than 5800, you're better than 95%. More than 14,000, you're better than 98%.
And if you are more than 26,000, you are in the top 1%, you're better than 99% of shows out there. Other numbers were either down a little or the same compared to August numbers. And now we'll get into geographic breakdown. This is for October. Her downloads geographically from all sources. In the US, 59.8% Canada, 5.7% UK, 5.1% Australia, 3.3% Germany, 2.8% Sweden, 2.5% India, 1.3% Spain, 1.1% That was everybody at 1% or more.
Rounding out the top 20 in order, Japan, Netherlands, China, Mexico, France, Denmark, South, Africa, Brazil, Belgium, Poland, Ireland, and Norway. And for October, we had Norway back into the top 20. And between October and September, those with changes greater than 0.2% were the US inching up to 59.8% from 59.5% China dropping from 2% to 0.8% Canada moved up to 5.7% from 5.2% is hockey season back. We have a few big hockey podcasts.
And of course, check your stats to see how you measure up to those numbers for October. And now per user agent info for October, across all shows globally hosting on Libsen and Libsen Pro for IAB stats, mobile downloads were 86.78% of all downloads going directly to mobile devices. This is up a butch from September's 85.83% computer downloads were down to 12.77. Home voice attendant plus set top boxes were at 0.45% in October.
The iOS to Android ratio in October was 3.27 to 1, which is up a smidge from the 3.15 to 1 ratio in September. Mobile aggregator apps not from Apple and Spotify in October were 11.8% of all downloads. And then of course, the big dog and aggregator apps is still Apple with Apple podcast app and iTunes and Apple ecosystem coming in at 46.5% of all downloads for October. Number two in October was Spotify 22.1 and number three over cast 3.3 pocket cast at 1.9 in iHeart radio at 1.1%.
And that's everyone over 1%. Those that were between 1% and 0.3% in order, Podbean, Amazon Music, Podcast Addict, Castbox, and Tenipod and PlayRFM. And then those are followed by in order by those between 0.3% and 0.02% downcast, Google podcast, Pandora, Evox, Podcast or Tuning Radio, Padomo, Samsung Podcast, Podcast Guru, Deezer, RealLife, App Android, Fountain, Beyond Pod, Castro, RSS Radio, AirPodCatcher, SNIPT, Axios, DogCatcher, RealLife, App, iOS, Podverse, and Mixerbox.
And then many more that come in less than 0.02% and don't mention yet. And those were based on iHeart numbers for October. Outside of aggregator apps, there were browsers Firefox came in at 9% and Chrome at 2.1. Overall all browsers combined were about 12% of downloads in October. So there you go. There's our big stats. The next episode will be a statastic episode as well. We've got some marketing trends reports to report on.
It's the time of the year where people start doing their best of and top lists so we may have some of those on the next episode. So yeah, expect December to be all about stats. It as it usually is. Where have we been? I wasn't on anywhere. If anyone wants a guest, let me know. I haven't been on a guest on a podcast a while other. So happy to come and talk College basketball or newdoon series. We didn't even mention the newdoon series.
So by the time you heard this, the newdoon series will have been out, which takes place. I believe 10,000 years before the original doon series. So I'm so excited for that. Yes, that well worth it for my HBO membership for that. No, they've done a really good job bundling things out for the HBO of it all. We, yeah, for sure. Where have we been? Well, you guys, if you are not subscribed to our YouTube channel, please go check it out. We have so much great stuff on YouTube.
It is extraordinarily amazing, really, really. It is so good. Our team is so great. And on that note, I actually think that we have an opportunity for, I actually, this is the first time that I have all kinds of things all the way to the end of the year to let you all know about because we're planning. So we have moms and mysteries and Tom Webster with Sounds Profitable are going to be presenting some really amazing information about true crime podcasts data.
And I know that that might seem like, oh, it's so specific. But believe me, it's going to be eye opening from a variety of different ways in there. You have to check that out. I believe all of these links are going to be in the show notes there. The other thing is that we are also sponsoring the Latino podcast. Listen to a report that is happening also in December. That is a fifth year. So there's going to be five years worth of data for that data coming from Edison research overall.
After that, our team, team, Lipson, at this moment, it's going to be Brian and I. We might be adding some other folks are going to be doing our last live, a last YouTube live that is going to be focusing in on very specific podcasting workflows. As far as we're concerned at the moment, we might pivot, but we are going to be producing a podcast episode between everybody who's there.
And we're all going to take one bit of it like the recording, the show notes, the sort of, you know, and we're going to put it out and walk people through our own workflows. And guess what portion I'm going to be taking, Rob? Which portion? Maybe the show notes? Yes. Oh, nailed it. You did. Because how many times do we get that question? How do you do the show notes? How do you do that? So and that question keeps coming up. So I am going to be going like step by step on this. So just FYI.
Anytime the question comes into me, I'm like, okay, this got to go to LC because LC is the, I consider LC the expert on show. So we're going to be doing that. And we also have a couple of really amazing videos coming out in December that are around 20 years in podcasting. One of them is featuring so many industry folks.
The other one is going to be featuring Dave Mentswedo and Matt Hoops who were co-founders of Lipson Way back in the day and they give you an inside peak as to all kinds of things that was going on. So that's going to be just awesome and Rob, I think we have outside of this. So this is 281. We just have two more episodes after this one for the end of the year.
So if anybody has any end of your questions, any end of your ideas or maybe you want to send in happy new year and or ideas around content, a promo would be great for next year. Or you know, tech that you're looking to understand whatever, just send some, send, send the feed at Lipson.com. We'd love to feature your voice. That would be, oh my God. Can you imagine like all of a sudden we do an ASMR and just going, they wake up in the morning and they're like, I must record a podcast promo.
All right. That is where we're going. Oh my God. Right. And then just for shows, Podfest in Orlando in January, I hope to see a lot of folks there. NRB and Dallas in February, podcast movement, evolutions in Chicago and March, NAB, Las Vegas and April and Pod Show in London and May. So there we go for shows coming up in the first half of next year. If you know any good shows that we should be at, if you have a show, a larger regional meetup, let us know.
We're looking for some of those as well, especially in the second half of next year. Please folks, if you are also not going to the shows I mentioned and you host on Lipson, you want to get your cards to show, just send me an email, robatlipson.com and then switching gears off from where we're going to where, well, you could be going if you're looking for a job in podcasting. Make sure to go to podcastingjobs.com.
As of the middle of November, we had six openings listed there, three of which are remote and three are in Pittsburgh. Again, go to podcastingjobs.com to learn more about those openings. And then finally, don't forget to send in your feedback for anything we did or did not mention on this episode. Pro. And you can record that feedback and email it to us, thefeedatlipson.com or you can call us 412-573-1934 or you can also use speakpipe.speakpipe.com slash thefeed. Right on, everybody.
Thank you so much. And we'll chat with you in a couple of weeks or three weeks. Yes. More than two, three. Okay. Alright, ciao. Bye.