¶ Intro
I've been just racking my brain to try to figure out how do I describe this Abrahamic aspect of fatherhood that can help correct the playful dad from thinking that's the end goal. So if you're ever looking for a podcast producer, editor, Curt's the best. It was called Proclaim Podcasting. Is there anything in this world that would want to make me give away what I'm doing? Yes. Yes, there is. My children can,
All right. So, man, there's a couple of things that I really find moving and, uh, interesting about what Steve Irwin is saying here. Um, so I think on the moving side, he's, he's saying, look, when you have a really clear mission as a family team. And somebody were to ask you, how do I pry this out of your fingers and cause you to say, no, I would be willing to give this up or, and it's really interesting that, and this is why I think thinking about this from a multigenerational family perspective makes so much sense.
For your mission to hand it off properly to your children because you're, you know, uh, your season's over. And of course, you know, Steve Irwin had that tragic death, you know, I think, um, was killed by when he was, I think it was a stingray or something. Um, I remember that it's a number of years back, but it does, I do think his son has continued in the, um, in, in the process of, of carrying on the torch of the family mission, which is unbelievable to think about.
Yeah. I'm glad you said the second, um, part of this, because that was my question coming in, knowing that we want to talk about this. It's like, yes. And now having, you know, I've got four kids, um, and it's like one of those ones are probably not going to want to take the football and what that brings up for me, um, you know, maybe before I could just set the stage for the reaction, um, is that there's a very, I think there's a difference between an internal, an eternal and a temporal mission here.
And I think that part becomes a little bit more malleable for them to choose. And I've heard you talk about this before their new, um, family unit within the broader family unit when they get married. Um, but as long as that eternal mission, which is we love God, we serve God bar none, that's sort of the thing that I think I relate to most in this.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, what's really interesting, and this is, this is where, you know, I think individualism and sort of family, uh, culture can, can kind of either collide or converge depending on what happens in each individual family.
And one of the things that, that seems to betray or not take any consideration properly is the fact that most people I think are generalists. They have, they don't necessarily, they want to give their life to a specific mission, but they, if you ask them like, what is, what is the, what is the driving, do you have this like this small, super specific world changing mission that you're obsessed with?
Um, and the reason you give that to a family is because families are multi generational and right now the only, the only thing that is multi generational are institutions like, um, business entities and, um, if generate, if families are resetting every single generation. Then you can only give meaningful multigenerational missions to NGOs or to a business entity or to a church or something like that.
You can at least imagine this church I planted. I remember I worked with a pastor, for example, once. And, um, you know, his kids, he raised his kids, you know, like a normal Western dad and they all were off doing their own things. But he was, you know, as a church planting pastor obsessed with legacy and succession and paying off this building and handing off to the next generation.
And even if, because I'm just trying to run this back, like, do I expect me to have a mission this big? Sort of, because it's how I think. But do I expect everyone to have a mission like Steve Irwin has? Like, massive world changing? I don't think that's fair, but why can't we have levels to this where at least we're doing some form of um, building a generational idea?
And so when I was asking him all these questions, he's like, yeah, I just worked there and I'm actually really glad to just work there. I don't even want to own it necessarily. And it was like, Oh, okay. But he's so grateful that his grandfather had the vision, even if it was a local service, um, whatever kind of business it is.
Um, but it doesn't need to be look at all these big things. It's look at how we have our vision and mission that touches the people that we're interacting with every single day. That has a deeper connection rather than a, a shotgun approach to just hitting a thousand people. But. only one time. So it's almost like taking it vertical instead of horizontal, which I think most people would default to thinking the vision has to be.
Yeah, that's, that, that does stir up something for me because I just had this conversation with April a couple hours ago, we were just talking about this and we were trying to decide whether or not to do this kind of big initiative that, you know, was going to bring a lot more people into our orbit.
And, and so I, I think that I've, you know, likewise, you know, to the process you've been through Curt, I've been really wrestling with this question of, you know, um, I really want to be careful to, to prioritize the small, the quiet, the things, and the things that multiply. And that's why, to me, I find it so helpful to understand this fruitful, multiply, fill, subdue, and rule.
Um, but maybe it's more rare than, than common to, to have, Um, but you know, I think that, um, we're talking about, you know, this, this giant world changing vision. And oftentimes I find that even the people that tend to have those oftentimes there's something about their story that really, you know, God is giving them, you know, uh, this bigger vision.
Um, in other words, like let's say Robert Irwin is super excited about dad's mission. But you know, there's another son or another daughter or who, who they're not as called to that. And do they feel like a less a part of the family? Do they feel like less attached? Um, I think that's the concern that a lot of, uh, a lot of us in the West people that, you know, and I think there's a legitimate conversation around how do we make sure that we're not creating a, um, a culture in our family.
There's three in particular that we're, we're very zeroed in on, you know, restoring the biblical blueprint of family. Um, getting to a thousand disciple making households in Cincinnati and blessing, um, Israel through unique assignments. God's giving our family, um, in the middle East. Those are three things that constantly are coming up constantly.
Um, I'm not comfortable, um, with any assignment that is going to somehow compromise. our ability to be fruitful and multiply physically or spiritually. In other words, to either to have children and grandchildren and to have spiritual children and grandchildren to make disciples, who make disciples. So that's how I kind of try to resolve the, the, the problem of having this powerful, you know, family mission that might, you know, subtly create some disunity.
Um, so this is what we're going to do. And in my situation, like my wife and kids needed me to do that. And I ended up bringing it to them and asking them what they thought, any questions, any suggestions, what else did I miss? And they all had feedback and we generally agreed on, you know, five of the six and then added one and changed one, deleted one, whatever.
Like if I come into my house, even if I've had a bad day and I'm like, Hey guys, hey, Everyone's like, oh, dad's excited. And I could be having a miserable time, but my mood is what gives everyone else the, the right as it were to also match me. And so it couldn't, maybe they don't want to be wildlife conservations, but they're like, dad was excited about mission.
that. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's the thing that's, we, there's always sort of this assumption that, you know, every individual, um, has sort of the same, you know, psychologists call it ego strength. So you're, we're calling it talking about, it's like data energy.
I still think it should be led with that dad energy, that patriarchal vision. You're going to, you're going to say, yes, guys, we are all getting around, you know, our daughter or your mom's vision around this. This is so exciting. This is a part of our family's mission, but I do think the dad energy is absolutely paramount.
It's that, that, that's the mood you add that with the vision of the mission. Like you were describing Curt, man, that's the one, two punch there that I think is going to get the family just rocking around a mission. All right. Um, yeah, that was a fun conversation. Now I'm really excited to share this clip.
And I saw this clip the other day and I was like, Oh my gosh. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone articulate more clearly what I think is the difference. Um, and they weren't, they weren't trying to do this. They were, this is Chris Williamson and, um, Eric Weinstein having a conversation about, um, what they're calling, um, high agency.
You're trapped in a South American prison. Yeah, this one is. It's absolutely, it's one of those awful, 5, 000 people in there, it's 100 people per room, there's half the number of bunk beds, everyone's got a skinhead, you have 24 hours to get out, and you've got one phone call. Who'd you ring? It's hard in my case.
Can readjust their thinking because no solution is clear. Yeah, I think a different version of that question is. Is your problem, which call to place, or that you have no one you can even think
I got 24 hours. I mean, but, but, but like what I feel like I, I try to accumulate in my life as a father. Is the, is every kind of capital to be able to address those kinds of problems. And I'm like, please call me. Like, I will be on the plane and I'm going to bring, uh, to bear the res every resource of this family to rescue you.
Um, and it's not that women of course, can't also be high agency, but fathers must be high agency. Um, that, that's the difference. And, and so when I see depictions of father of low agency fatherhood, when I see the bluey dad, and I'm like that guy, he's a lot of fun, but my gosh, if you're in a South American prison, I'm not calling that guy.
Like, don't make decisions that are going to take away your agency, take away your ability to maximally make decisions that are in the best interest of your family. That, and so when I see guys giving away their agency. Um, in, in a, in a way that is really going to be dangerous for their future family.
Yeah, no, I, I like this a lot because this is one of the things I was struggling against as well. It's like, there's something wrong with what we've been talking about with fatherhood, but like, what do you do? And, you know, you use Abraham a lot, which I think is the right way to do it, but it's also important that we bring this into the, you know, modern, parlance in a sense, because so many people are so disconnected from history and from biblical, um, you know, just, just reading. and so, you know, I, I can't add anything to that because I am still trying to become, um, you know, high agency and he said generative. Uh, he said high trust and he said readjusting thinking because of uncertainty and unclearness. Um, I think that the last one there, I mean, high trust is something that I think I'm okay at generative.
It doesn't mean you're responsible such that if they do something wrong, like you should be thrown in jail and lashed and all that kind of stuff. You know, could you have stepped in earlier? And so as I'm thinking about this, like, I can't add anything to what you said there because you're experienced, but for me, I'm going, how do I break this down into its constituent parts, which are one of these three buckets, but even more than that, what are the areas that I could be potentially giving away agency?
And for me, I was going like, well, my instinct is to be like, Don't you know how bad this is? Here's the reasons you're going to stop right now. And if you just do what I tell you, we're good. And I thought, no, that's not how addiction works. What if I need to sit with him in that? What if it's going to take years?
And so that's just one example of like, there's probably 10 or 20 different categories that I am going to need to think about in terms of where could I be giving up agency by not being intentional and aware of how I show up as a father, especially in the places that are really uncomfortable and that my ego doesn't want me to go to.
By the way, um, if you guys are looking for symbolic models for this. Um, so this, this, like the first 30 minutes of the Godfather when his, his daughter is getting married and everyone is coming to him with their biggest problem. Um, I, I never quite knew what that was. I would sit there and watch the first 30 minutes of that movie and I'd be like, what, it's just so weird.
Um, I got to find not just a father, but like the top father in my network. But I just think that's a really good example of, again, you, you, you, you're building up these. Uh, things in tiny microcosm, um, in the early stage of your fatherhood. And as, as it gets getting more and more intense, you just, you, you're becoming that increasing high energy or high agency person.
good as the anti Bluey dad. I really liked that. I'm throwing my money into that. I just, I just love hearing you, uh, harass Bluey. So, uh, if you can throw that in there, I'd be happy. Okay.