¶ Intro / Opening
when you look back at your kind of high school career, you look forward to college, what you want to see, I think, culturally, what we want to see, Is that if you somehow erase the names at the top of both of those, you know, those transcripts or those bios, you would not be able to tell the gender and that would be considered like a huge win.
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the family teams podcast. So as you guys know, by now, if you've been following us, we kind of are bouncing back and forth between fatherhood conversations, motherhood conversations. It's all family related. It's all things that I think we all should be listening to, but. We really want to make sure that we're getting the perspective from as many different folks as possible about a lot of these really current topics and also really helpful ideas around fatherhood, motherhood, and just building out a family team in general.
So Donna Chung is here from Vancouver, Brittany Stewart from Texas and Kristin netting from the beautiful state of Ohio. So we've all interacted on various platforms in different ways, family, Inc, uh, 1000 houses, different places. So thank you all for joining me today. Thank you for having us. Yeah. We're excited to interact and get to talk through some of this stuff.
So I wanted to share something he was interacting with Lila Rose about and just get y'all's Just take or thoughts reactions to what he shared. So i'm gonna man. I have so many beefs with with feminists But you know what perhaps is the is the one that I find sort of darkest and saddest and This is i'm sure there will be someone who thinks this is me being a benevolently sexist But I think it's that essentially It's been decided that societally culturally economically politically or whatever The standard that women and girls should aspire to in everything is the male standard.
Even when people talk about the quote unquote gender pay gap, which everyone knows has been debunked for decades, but even that, even bringing that up, I'm like, why is the measure how much money you make? Mm hmm. What about, I mean, do people not realize actually most fathers would like to have more free time and they'd like to spend more time with their children?
Or is there some Put down on it. Yeah, what about a job? What about a career? What about all these other things? Or just little things people say. So, I'm going to let him finish his thought. This kind of, I love their, how he's teasing this out. This is really helpful, because I think, I just don't I don't know if I've heard somebody say this this bluntly or clearly that one of the subtle things that is happening is that there are things that men really optimize for really tend to care about and men tend to live in a very competitive environment where they are thinking about how to be the best at certain things and so they're comparing these specific things that And I think that's really important.
And this is, this is, this is strange. You don't have to optimize for income. For example, you can optimize for, uh, for lots of quality of life, uh, elements. You can optimize for, for, for family. And part of what I think we need to be having conversations as men about is, is I feel like a lot of what I've really wrestled with on the fatherhood conversations is, is to really challenge men about the fact that we.
And it's like, what do you do? Yeah. What do I do? I'm. I've raised children. I serve my community. I mean, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work, but it means that in people's brains, they've just associated even the word work with working for some company, having a boss and earning a paycheck. Yeah. Earning a paycheck in that sense.
Where you just don't really want men and women to exist as categories. This borders into the whole trans thing and it's just this sort of grey mush of interchangeable cogs. I think the coolest thing about women is that they're not men. The greatest thing ever. For a man who's like looking for a woman, that's like the number one thing, you're not a man.
And I think where this gets really important for, you know, for our conversation is. That how do you build a family team if you're constantly smashing up these, these genders? So I'd love to get your guys take April. Welcome. I know that like we were telling people, you're going to zoom in here a little bit later, so feel free to chime in as well.
Our creator created us with an identity already, and when you start looking, At the grass on the other side, right? The grass isn't always greener. We need to water where we're at. So that was just my first thought is we all want what we can't have. That's in our nature. That's human nature. A hundred percent.
It's. And that's a very strange development. Yeah. Kristen, what, what did this start for you? Well, it's graduation season and I've attended homeschool co op graduations, and I just attended a public, large public high school graduation. And in both places, this issue came up. The public high school, the ceremony was pretty much led by the honor society students.
Um, and then I attended a homeschool co op graduation. There were obviously a much smaller amount of children, but, or graduates there. And even in that Christian circle, someone asked one of the, Female graduates, what she was doing and her mom stepped in automatically told this whole grand story about how, you know, she just, she just is going to stay put for this amount of time.
We say, I'm just a stay at home mom. And it's just not just, so I've just seen that play out very tangibly lately. I think it's actually really important to talk about graduation ceremonies, uh, because I think graduation ceremonies. Are maybe the most, I think the most influential moment where we have a public ceremony where we tell young people the kind of the, the, the optimized or the proper trajectory of life.
What is the purpose? Like that's the whole point of the ceremony. We're celebrating what they've accomplished, but there's also an understanding that, that when there's speeches given or conversations had, it's sort of pointing children, right? Men and women, boys and girls in a direction. I was, I was very struck on, I remember my high school, my high school graduation party, somebody pulled me aside and said, and told me, Hey, I got to tell you something, something that I think is really important that, you know, when you transition to this next season of your life, what you're about to experience when you go off to college, those are going to be the best years of your life.
It says specifically, behold, thus shall the man be blessed. Who fears the Lord, it's not about, you know, your college years, but this story is really difficult. So there's a lot being stirred up and I do think that, you know, is, should there be gender like a little bit more of a gender distinction conversation had at graduation ceremonies when you are pointing, are you going to point men and women in exact same direction when they are around 18 years old?
I don't think that's a big deal. I don't think that's like, Oh my gosh, you know, stop everything. Something terrible has happened. It's just a, it's just, it's just an observation that we were both were making. And it's like, when there's an opportunity to accentuate the difference, we choose not to take it often.
So they each kind of had like a paragraph on the program about all of their accomplishments throughout high school and then what their future plans are. And it was such a stark contrast, kind of like what Kristen's saying with, uh, 18 of them. Talking about all of their accomplishments from high school and then they're heading off to college and what their major is going to be and all these things.
And, uh, she read it, and we were joking, and she's like reading through all her friends. She's like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, none of them, none of them say anything about, you know, Family or getting married or being a mom or anything. And so she, I'm like, well, how does that make you feel? And she's just like, I, this is crazy.
And, and we stood out like a sore thumb, you know, in, in a way that we were kind of positioning what we thought this event was about and how we were kind of walking through this next season with our daughter. And so, yeah, it's, it's difficult because. I don't think that it's well known the, uh, impact this is having on, on the, the, the ability for young women in particular to think about, and this is kind of getting back to what Zuby was basically saying that the, all the metrics are the same, like, like you, you, when you get to this, this, when you look back at your kind of high school career, you look forward to college, what you want to see, I think, culturally, what we want to see, Is that if you somehow erase the names at the top of both of those, you know, those transcripts or those bios, you would not be able to tell the gender and that would be considered like a huge win.
I think culturally, like I, I don't want to be able to know the gender when I'm looking at what you've accomplished and what you're aiming at in the future. And I think we're saying, can we have a conversation about that? Is that a good idea? Like, is there, is there a reason to actually potentially be able to tell the gender based on, on that?
And I feel like. What comes up is also like women, they need to be to feel safe and men needing to be honored. And I think looking back in from my own perspective, being raised in a family where I'm the first born in an Asian family, kind of raised like the son in some ways with how my father kind of treated me.
And then my, my husband, the more I did that, the more passive passivity increase, and I kept shooting myself in the foot and like, and then maybe being critical and whatnot, and it's not actually working. And so I do wonder if this component of control and the need for it. Yeah. And in the spoken world living in it is kind of leading us further, further downwards.
It's just even beyond way beyond that now. So I knew it was, Oh my God. It's good. Do you guys have any, obviously that, that kind of resonates Donna with, I mean, the, that line from Genesis three, your desire will be for your husband or to control your husband and he will rule over you. There's different ways to translate that, that exact verse, but it's, there does seem to be like a tension that need, that is going to exist.
And. And there aren't distinct roles in this very dynamic team. There is just a negotiation that endlessly happens to happen between the husband and the wife as again, not just equal in power, but equal in every other way. And I think that that, that is not serving families really well, but it's incredibly difficult to have this conversation in the current climate within our culture, because our culture has, you know, has really bypassed that and has gotten much further down the road of.
I'm actually noticing as a mother, like, Oh, like more of my safety to have that nurturing come out and then, and that I don't need to. So I've been seeing some of the fruits of that, and it's very countercultural, but it's like. The more I'm leaning into it, the more it just, uh, it's quite freeing. Yeah. And it's, yeah, very counter cultural, but it's, it's, it's, there's something about this.
Excellent. I've definitely been on the same journey, not even knowing how much control I was taking and really the same thing, you know, me taking control and then my husband Okay, you've got it, you know, and that the cycle of control passivity, control passivity, and then all of a sudden it is not working and I'm coming crashing down and he's like, what, you know, and intentionally choosing a different way has been something that we've been working through in that dance back and forth and, and, and choosing something different.
And so that's a really difficult reality, um, within masculinity, which is that we have a tendency to take the easy road. And so if we have a wife who's very capable and who's like, Hey, I'll, I'll take that, I'll take this, I'll take that. There's a, there's a huge part of us that just is for, for most men that will just say, all right, well.
This is very offensive. But again, I think you have to start from the perspective of team, right? Any, anybody could see this in a team environment. Like if, if you have different roles in a team and if, you know, if, for example, you know, on a football team, if the quarterback is, if everyone's like, look, look, the quarterback isn't, you know, isn't doing it right.
I think it's five, but it's all in Proverbs. How Solomon is warning against. The lust of a woman and Someone pointed out how for a man, this is roles again for a man Time and time again in scripture and and it's just our day to day world. What brings a man down? It's a woman It's an affair. It's And I just thought, okay, like, let's look at that the other way, if we can be the man's greatest downfall, then we can be our man's biggest encourager.
So I think going back to roles, being able to say like, what's my role as wife or as woman. And it doesn't make me less. It's an honor, an honor situation. Very cool. Thanks for sharing that, Brittany. Yeah, that's, I know. And that's, that's incredibly difficult. I think culturally to accept right now, but I think it's so important to speak out loud and say that something has gone terribly wrong with family.
So this is what I wrote. I said, wives can turn the hearts of their kids toward or away from their father and a thousand subtle ways. My wife continually turns my kids hearts towards me and much of my influence in their lives is thanks to her. So, uh, this is, this is something that felt like it developed in our, in our dynamic within our home that you really led and championed.
So April, talk to, talk to us a little bit about how that happened, uh, in, in your heart and why you started doing that. Yeah, I think it started, I actually picked up on this from my parents. My mom was really good at turning the hearts of my dad, the heart of my dad toward us. At least, and I think she, my parents became a new belief, became believers after they got married and then started having kids pretty much right after that.
I'm like, you did? That family club thing we did, that was your idea? And she's like, yeah, I'm like, I totally thought it was dad's. And so what, and then I started being like, well, what about this? And what about this? And she was like, I mean, not to brag, but yeah, that was kind of like my idea. And so, and it made me, I started.
If he was late in response, like they would ask him a question and he's off in space not answering. I would answer for, for him or if like he was doing something I didn't like, I would question him in front of the kids. And then I realized that one of my daughters was taking up my offense and being like, yeah, dad, why are you acting that way?
Like you remember to tell him that when he gets home. So I was always saying that kind of stuff to them. And then I remember a lot of it happening with Jeremy happening around the dinner table. So he would not to throw you under the bus. Go for it.
And then Jeremy's like, whoa, whoa, okay, here I am. I'm sitting at this table and I'm getting a cue from my wife that I need to pay attention to something. And so I had to kind of like turn his heart towards them and say like, look, they need, or like, Jeremy, did you notice that Alisa, she just showed you a picture that she drew?
Or let's text out a picture of that thing. We just did. That's so funny. Or, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, I've definitely experienced that. Like it is difficult. Like oftentimes I am distracted and April has been so helpful, you know, when, when that's happening to you to notice and. You know, I, there, I think I, at first was very annoyed by that. Like, no, let me be in my own world. I want to keep my head in the clouds.
And I've now I'm like, I just welcome it. It's been so important. I don't want to miss those moments. I don't want to, I want my kids to, to really understand how much I love them and I don't want to, yeah, uh, this, and this is, I think the thing that really, what destroys is. This, uh, this team dynamic we're talking about right now is the sense of competition we were talking about earlier.
But I, it's just amazing how much power in a good way. I think mothers have to, to do this, to create this dynamic. So yeah, I'm curious if any of y'all have any experience with this or what this stirs up. Yeah, go ahead, Donna. Well, two points. One was the, I still have it two boys, eight and three. And what I've noticed in the last year is.
We went, well, I don't want daddy. I don't want daddy and I'm actually starting to see it. And it makes me kind of sad. It also triggers other things for him, like, just this need to be wanted, but then going, oh, like, I think that that just ignites for me. I'm sorry to kind of do that, but then I think April, after you're sharing, I feel like I feel challenged to double down on that a little bit more and really nurture that back in that direction, because otherwise he's going to lose so much without that.
I see. But that can take time and effort and dad even like getting healed from some things he has or like overcoming something things from his, you know, upbringing or whatever to be able to reach that kid or whatever. But that's part of the process. I feel like
Thank you. I've got four kiddos, so almost 11, 9, 7, and 3. And I have found, I think, just as a woman, it's naturally easier to have that emotional connection with everyone in the room. And also very easy to use that connection to gang up on Dad. You know, Dad, let's do, like, Mom knows the temperature of what's going on.
We trust him and we're gonna honor it Although I do think our idea was fun and cool, but you know, that's okay. We're going to honor dad's leadership. And I think it was a few days later, my husband's like, that meant so much to me. Basically, thank you for coming beside me. Right. But as the woman, it's easier to do that when my heart's connected to him, because I've seen when my heart feels disconnected, it is easy to be like, I'm just going to gang up on daddy with y'all, you know, I think we can be the great neutralizer in turning their hearts one way or the other.
Awesome. Yeah. Kristen, I think in our house, we have six boys that are 18 to five, and some are more naturally gifted in the like, Physical world fixing things like my husband is and some of them aren't and they're wired a different way More emotional or interested in different things And so there are natural Ways that some of the boys just connect with him easily and he connects with them and the others I Really think it's important For me to see their heart and things that are they're struggling with maybe that jeremy doesn't see You And remind him or just bring that to his attention.
It is such a win win like you're describing. I feel like the fear of like, Competition or something at the beginning between the husband and wife at the beginning of like your marriage or something beginning of parenting and you're like, Oh, they want you and not me. And like, that can feel competitive or something, but the long game is we want to all be a team.
Or what does that look like for for me? And it's just so interesting that the mom gets to be a part of that. It feels like we're, it's like a superpower we have that we can choose to accept or not. But it is a win win for the family dynamics, I would say. Yeah, this is all by way of really, I think, I think part of what you guys are pointing out is it's really starts with believing that you are going to fight for the family first and, and, you know, we all understand this and in a team, we all understand that the nature of teamwork and that is that it's, it's totally appropriate to make sacrifices that are going to lift the entire team up.
And to build a family as a group of individuals in which there's a zero sum game between every individual in the family and that you're trying to build allies and, and really, you know, triangulate, you know, against each other, you cannot let that kind of culture pervade in a family. You have to become a team and part of the team dynamic is everyone.