Hello and welcome to the Sky Sports F1 Podcast sponsored by Dropbox. I'm Matt Baker and joining me for this one we've got two of our finest Anthony Davidson and Rachel Brooks lovely to see you both in this little hiatus this break that we've got from Formula One. Rachel firstly great to see you back well you the last time we were speaking to you was ever seeing Baku and you had your appendix out you now join this elite list of Formula One
personnel to have their appendix out on the road. I just need a car now and I'll win in Austin that's what I'm banking on I need a car to take around the track in Austin and I'm going to win so yeah a bit of an unusual one landed in Baku didn't feel very well
and then spent two weeks there having the emergency surgery and recovering for a week at hotel but I'm back I'm all good at five centimetres I got the pathology report it's only five centimetres long mine was they can be up to 20 but mine was five centimetres is it caused all that trouble anyway. I don't want to know what 20 centimetres feels like I mean that will be exceptionally painful I'm sure and how are things with you missing
F1. Yeah and I had a good time in Singapore yeah sorry you were there with us Rachel of course but glad to see you're fighting fit and healthy once again maybe that's where I went wrong in my career I just needed some appendix problems and appendicitis and just maybe it just should have got it removed anyway and could have been a bit quicker my whole career. Yeah it's going to be the winter break for all the drivers they're all going to get them whipped
out. The best surgeon in appendix so you know removal will have been inundated with phone calls from Formula One drivers anyway enough about appendix says let's move on and talk about Formula One and because this is our first podcast since we've learned that Daniel
Ricardo is out at RB and Liam Lawson is going to be in so we're going to get into that discuss why RB have chosen to do that with six races to go and then the other thing I want to touch on just at the end of the podcast is talk about Lewis Hamilton's recent interview
with the Times newspaper where reveals his lifelong battle with depression which is an incredible interview and fantastic that he's spoken so candidly about it so we'll get on to that a bit later but look first of all it's official the first time on the podcast we've learned that Daniel's out as I said and the 22 year old New Zealander Liam Lawson is in he's got six races to prove his worth if you like prove that he deserves a seat in Formula One in
2025. It's not his first time in Formula One of course he filled in for Daniel Ricardo a year ago so he's experienced he's experienced with the RB team I guess and sort of felt perhaps in Singapore like the worst kept secret in the paddock it seemed like everyone kind of knew this was happening was were you at all still surprised to see it happen or was it
something you expected to happen last week. I wasn't surprised to see the news break and for it to become official because it wasn't like we were just second guessing out there in Singapore even before that race because you know people do talk behind closed doors
and it's our responsibility as pundits as journalists to respect the privacy of drivers of athletes of team bosses so it's not like we were taking wild guesses to come up with this this hypothesis we did actually know but you're sworn to secrecy sometimes in the
paddock and you know just because you don't say it's official doesn't mean that it's a guess so it was way more than just an educated guess definitely so yeah not surprised to see the news break at all and I wouldn't have been surprised if it happened any earlier
either for that matter not that that would have been not that would have spoken about in the paddock it was just the feeling you had with with Daniel his during his second time at Red Bull albeit with the junior team it he was it almost seemed like he was on
a race by race deal in many ways if you're not performing then your chance of moving up to the A team diminishes and even to the point where we have to replace you with one of our younger drivers in our in our roster it's just the way that Red Bull is always
operated so yeah I'm not really surprised that it's that it's come to this and I think Daniel can walk away now knowing that he gave it his all he did have that second chance which so many drivers don't get that that opportunity and I think he can he can walk away
with no hard feelings now and also know that he did the best that he could and yeah it was very lucky to be given that second opportunity certainly was Rachel what was your reaction when you learn that this was official and happening I want to caveat everything by saying
I think Liam Lawson was super super impressive last year so him getting the chance I think is right however watching from home I mean obviously was watching online and back who and Singapore and so see everyone talking about him as though his career was over and he
was leaving without it being officially announced just left a bit of a bad taste to be honest because it just didn't feel like he got the send off he deserved and I know this is the way Red Bull do things ghazly Albon you know Nick DeRice none of them knew it was their
last race or didn't get a send off for their last race even if they knew so I know that's how they do things but it just felt like it was everyone's talking about him leaving but no one's actually saying it it just didn't feel very nice it didn't feel the right way
to treat somebody and especially somebody who's done what he has in the sport I think there's a stat about only 5% of drivers have achieved as much as him much as him in the sport or something from all the drivers that have raced and so it just didn't feel like the right
send off to me and the way it was done and you know if the Christian horn has done an interview he says Helmut Marco wanted Daniel out from Spain so you know he was racing under that kind of pressure from Spain onwards trying to prove himself and I just it just feels it's a ruthless sport and you know as you know and it's ruthless but wow it just didn't feel very nice it didn't feel like the way we want to treat people in our sport.
What strikes me about the whole process is just how cruel Formula One is because you think like we mentioned Nick DeRice he gets booted out and Ricardo comes in and then in such a cruel twist of fate Ricardo gets injured Lawson then replaces him for a few races Lawson
impresses Ricardo then never seems to get the momentum back after that and then Lawson replaces Ricardo I mean it's just like it's so brutal as a sport and individual individually brutal it's not like you win and lose as a team in that context I think it's very individual I don't know and if you agree.
I think that crash that he suffered in Xanford Ricardo last year at turn three you know any driver will kick themselves after any incident no matter how likely you get away with it but I think that moment like you touched on there Matt that moment was really pivotal
to Daniel's future at the team and his existence in Formula One as a whole because it allowed a young driver hungry snapping at his heels that chance to get behind the wheel and like we've seen with Colour Pinto you give these young drivers a sniff of a chance in desperation
they deliver and my goodness they're fun to watch and that's exactly what we have with Lawson and since then he's probably been pestering Marco pestering pestering see the job I did I can do better than that put me back in the car otherwise I'm off and I think
there's a lot to be said with that last yeah that that last bit is crucial as well because I feel like if it wasn't now for Ricardo if it wasn't him moving aside now for Lawson I fear that they were for their sake they would have lost him they would have lost Lawson
to another team maybe Audi who knows but it's somebody he needed to go somewhere and I think Red Bull could sense that and it's a brutal spot who's the future is it Ricardo or is it Lawson well unfortunately for Ricardo Lawson's younger than him so it's just
a game of numbers and that's what Christian said as well and he was saying that basically these young guys are coming in and they're actually formula two isn't showing the real talent or the skill or what they're able to do it's really hard to read formula two
at the moment and so by putting them in these formula one cars and seeing what they can do who knew Colour Pinto was going to be so good you know and Christian Horne a reference you know Arvin Lynn Blad and Isaac Hachar and maybe they're the future for Red Bull but
they need to get a chance in an F1 car to show up they can do and when you think that Liam got in that car and Singapore last year for qualifying having been told as we've been told that he didn't have the seat and yet he put in those performances that's incredible
and that really shows what he's made of and I think any team would have looked at that and said if he doesn't sign for Red Bull we need to go after him and get him in our car because I think he showed real talent and that's what these older guys if you like are up against
now and and you know Daniel couldn't drive around that car couldn't drive you know that car the way he wanted to put the performances in and that's the price you pay I think that the thing for Ricardo as well is that he has driven in Formula 1 for a long time he's seen the cars
evolve he's seen them change into the cars that they are today which don't have the same level of grip and a very different way you have to drive them compared to the older cars and you hang on to that as a driver you always hang on to the best car you've ever driven and in a way Formula 1
in general spoils you as a driver I never drove anything else that felt anywhere near as good as my little super gory back then in the early 2000s and it just it just spoils you so you're always therefore expecting and demanding that kind of performance from anything else you ever drive
and it and it fails to deliver and that's what Ricardo's experiencing now with these cars and arguably drivers like Fernando Alonzo Lewis Hamilton as well they've driven way better machinery in their past than they are now it's just the way the regulations evolve over time but the young
driver's getting in from from an F2 car this is the best car they've ever driven so they they've been coming to it with any preconceived ideas this is just mega and the car is is a dream to drive for them so it's never been better for them so it's a big difference it's the issue aren't
though that perhaps you mentioned Alonzo and Hamilton there is perhaps part of their legacy and part of their skill that they've been able to adapt so well and so quickly to each generation of Formula 1 car whereas could you argue that perhaps Ricardo has struggled to adapt and change his driving style to adapt to the to the regulations of each of each generation of cars is that
is that fair? I think it's fair and you could also throw in Sebastian Vettel to that as well and Ricardo was the driver that showed Vettel up back in 2014 when we got these new hybrid when the new hybrid poweunits came along and Vettel was looking back to the good old days of the V8s
and even the V10s V12s and wishing that he could return to those those that kind of poweunits and Ricardo came in and and did to Vettel that we've seen some young drivers do to the established pecking order of today it's just it's that natural progression and now Ricardo's feeling
that on the other side so now he he pretty much knows how Sebastian felt back then because he has been that driver in the past and he my goodness he was mega and we all loved watching him but it's sad as a commentator as a pundit and an extraival it was sad feeling that happened to me as a
driver feeling that edge disappear and it's sad me now as a commentator looking at drivers that yeah there I say like a dying star because you just see that you see that sparkle just start to fade and it's it's a slow progression but it's hard to admit it to yourself that yeah I'm not quite
I'm not quite performing to the same level that I once did and it's not just Formula One any athlete will testify to that as well that it just it's a natural evolution of an athlete you just you start to lose what you once had and it's there's no rhyme or reason to it it doesn't it's not like
a certain age it's going to hit you and you're going to lose performance it happens to different people different athletes at different ages and I think yeah it's only when you step away from it that you can look back and go yeah back then that's when I was firing no cylinders and I was
never quite the same after that I'm interested Matt actually to ask Am because a lot has been made of the fact that Daniel apparently picked up bad habits at McLaren in terms of his driving so I don't understand what other bad habits that you could pick up from another car that then
affect how you drive the next car because Christians talked about it as well as Daniel picked up a lot of bad habits at McLaren that we had to get out of him when he came back to to drive the RB what what could those bad habits be what are you dealing with sometimes you see one of your
teammates that that is able to produce better lap times and the engineers today they see everything they can see what you're doing with the steering they can see what you're doing with the slip angles of the tires and and the braking technique as well some drivers like to double pedal
quite a lot by pressing the throttle and the brake at the same time and other drivers is prefer to lift and coast a bit more that that's an easier style for them it's a more natural style and every car I always believe that every car even every category you found your niche as a
driver and there was you know I can look back to cars that I just clicked with in my career different categories versus you jump in that car for the first time and you just think you just feel at home and the lap times come and it all feels effortless because it it's just the way you
naturally want to drive the car and other times it's a struggle and engineers will be looking at how your teammate is performing and how they're finding the time over you and then you have to try to mold yourself to try and drive a bit more like them and it doesn't feel natural when you have to
work at it and work at it until you can finally get closer to that how they're extracting the performance from that car and I think yeah maybe that can sometimes live with you for a while afterwards as well if you've tried so hard to change to adapt your style we've seen it in different
categories in your way up as a junior driver whether you're a left foot breaker or a right foot breaker for example former Ford taught me to the classic heel and toe of breaking with your right foot and blip in the throttle on the same foot and using the clutch and that's a skill I never
had to use ever again in my career and then I had to go back to my karting days but it was always about left foot breaking when I got to form a three and form the one of course and and it took time to re-adapt weirdly to to a style that I used to do as a kid for many many years in karting so
that's yeah like an explanation of how you can get stuck in a rut that's not necessarily your your preferred style I guess from a fans point of view we only see these drivers in their Formula One cars you know looking like heroes but there's so much isn't there that goes into all
of those years of junior categories that go into the training and yeah particularly even more remarkable when you maybe think about some like Fernando Alonso who went into different categories then came back into Formula One how much would have been going through his brain and try to work out
and recalibrate into a Formula One car and great just to sort of bring it on to Ricardo and how he'll be feeling right now and and sort of the emotions that he'll be going through I guess when he joined RB when he came back to RB what would it be fair to say his objectives were beat you key
preview you can get that second Red Bull Sea house checko and then boom great you're winning a couple of racers but maybe actually Max was dappin is still the superhero that team but he's a bit more comfortable with that at this stage in his career how do you think he'll reflect on this whole
period and how it's gone for him well I mean Christians actually said Daniel was the backstop for if Sergio didn't perform that's why they brought him back in now that for a driver is a massive opportunity you know Daniel left the Red Bull which you know whether whether he'll say one day
yes that was a mistake and I regret it or not who knows but he left when when Max was starting to outperform me and he felt like the team maybe were gearing everything up towards Max and so you wanted a fresh start he left he's now got a chance to come back to put himself up against Max
I remember talking to him actually takes us last year when he came back from his hand injury he said you know I'm happy to go up against Max I'm happy to test myself against him again you know and give it everything and and he knew going into that seat this was Red Bull seeing if he was
worthy of replacing checko this wasn't about the RB seat everyone was pretty open about that so I think he's got to be massively disappointed and interestingly what other thing Christian said was that in Canada this year which we will remember Jack Neilner was very outspoken on his thoughts on Daniel Christian said that I actually spurred Daniel to drive the wheels off that car that weekend and put in a fantastic performance and it kind of spurred him on to a performance they haven't seen since
maybe hungry the year before before his injury and and so it felt as though you know if you push him the performance is there but then it dropped off again and there other than like the Miami sprint you know they were struggling to find highlights from him that meant he could stay so I think Daniel
can walk away feeling as though he has given it everything because you know whatever happens he went out that every weekend trying to perform his absolute best you know and and it hasn't worked out for him in the end and he's been given a second chance a lot of drivers don't get and
it didn't work out but you know what if that frees him up to come and work with us and be on telly and be on the tree and I'd be a pundit then then brilliant you know once he's got over the fact he's not racing that would be amazing yeah no doubt he'll make a fantastic pundit and and be brilliant
on TV because he's obviously a great character in the sport I get it just and sort of final final point on Daniel perhaps and is was it that battle with you key I mean I've got their sort of head to heads here so you know in qualifying you key firmly beat him after Singapore it was 12-6
across the season that you key beat him in qualifying in the race it was much closer before Singapore was actually eight eight and then obviously snowed a finished head of him in the race in Singapore so then became nine eight so you on paper you look at the race outcomes and you go well it's sort
of neck and neck but I guess was was he needing to beat Yuki Senoda to prove his worth in that team from Red Bull's perspective he didn't just need to beat Yuki I think he needed to he needed to knock it out the park he needed to destroy you I think that's what the team were expecting I think
that's what they're thinking if you're going to be on max for stappens level we believe that max for stappen would show Yuki the way every single qualifying session every single race who'd finish half a lap ahead of him or more and that's what we're expecting our driver if you're to replace
Sergio Perez that's what we're looking for I'm sure that's what that's the belief from inside Red Bull that's what they're looking for that magic and yeah maybe Daniel once upon a time would have been able to deliver that I think perhaps he would have been ahead of Yuki firmly ahead but
I don't think it's I think Yuki has upped his game since his arrival in Formula One him and he used to and it's quite normal you see some drivers arrive and they over drive the car and they crash and they spin and you're waiting for it to all calm down a bit and then they do
and then they're slow because they've lost their rhythm but Yuki's been through that journey and he's not that driver anymore that the song may think back to he's a he's a he's a pretty polished he's the he's a finished article now I think and poor old Yuki I think still getting tired with
that same brush of oh you've got to come in you destroy Yuki and then you'll get a chance I'm not sure it's that easy anymore for anyone to come in and do that again to know that and I think how does he feel about all of this he's being overlooked every single time these young drivers coming
whether it's Lawson or Ricardo comes back as an older experienced driver Nick DeFrice has a go up against him as well and Yuki keeps beating them every single time it can't just be a coincidence so I feel like poor old Yuki is being overlooked here and why isn't he given the chance
why aren't we hearing about Yuki's chance to replace Sergio Perez and would he do a better job if he was put into the into the Red Bull he's a feisty driver I can't imagine he would be mentally destroyed by Max Verstappen if he finished second him every single time or you know 10 or 15
seconds down the road he's a resilient character and I think that's what Ricardo was up against him without anyone really highlighting this I feel Ricardo is already sitting there thinking you know what Yuki is a really good driver now and it's unfair that your expectations are warped
Fascinating I will come on perhaps to talk about the Red Bull junior program in a bit because I think there's a quite interesting discussion around who is now left at Red Bull and what the future looks like but before we go on to talk about the job that Liam Lawson has got ahead of him
at RB with six races to go a quick word from our podcast sponsor Dropbox brand new for this episode and for the rest of the season because we all know in F1 victories can be won or lost by the finest of margins and it's the reason that data plays such a crucial role in a team success who would like to guess how much data is collected per team across a race weekend we're talking bites or bits or what do you think?
I'm talking about your talking it's either in gigabyte or terror bites terror but terror flops um terror flops is that a thing? only in your world and only in your world I don't think terror flops are a thing I'm going to google it or it might be petter bites I think are the error above this is a good discussion five terror bites I don't know five terror bites from Rachel
and what are you what are you guessing? race weekend I'm going to go for a hundred terror bites this is a good guess is in fact it's actually a bit less maybe maybe we've got better refining the data one point five terror bites I win! so that bad as by the way a terror flop is is a thing is it what but how many
terror flops in a terror bite? it's a terror flop is a unit of measurement that measures a computer's ability to perform a trillion flingting point operations per second oh my goodness me let's formally apologise to you and forgetting that one wrong yeah sorry sorry for
laughing at the terror flop although I argue terror flop needs to be rebranded yeah it doesn't sound very secure does it anyway so look over a race weekend 1.5 terror bites of data is collected per team and as a technology partner of the McLaren Formula 1 team dropbox is trusted for its fast
secure and reliable sinking and sharing capabilities to help the team quickly search and manage the huge amount of content and data if you're interested in finding out more get an exclusive behind the scenes look at how dropbox fuels the McLaren Formula 1 team's speed and performance
by visiting dropbox.com forward slash McLaren hyphen f1 and of course a big thank you to dropbox for sponsoring the podcast okay so let's talk about the job then that Liam Lawson has ahead of him because I think it's important in all of this and that we've obviously just spoken for the last 15
minutes about Daniel leaving the sport but let's not forget this is a really exciting moment for Liam Lawson a 22 year old New Zealander exciting for New Zealand motorsport to have a driver in Formula 1 and you know we're in terms of the future of Formula 1 there's no doubt Liam Lawson
is going to be a factor in that so he's got six races to prove himself and I want to get your thoughts on the six races that he's got ahead of him Austin, Mexico, Brazil, Vegas, Qatar, Abu Dhabi what if you were to pick tracks that were good for a new driver coming into Formula 1
maybe would you say Vegas and Mexico are kind of outliers they're they're slightly unique tracks in their characteristics but Austin quite a nice track film's coming on to you know it's a proper race track to prove what he can do yeah it's a good one for Lawson to arrive at into Austin
I don't know how the car is going to perform there but for a driver it's a circuit that you can really get your teeth into and you know it's a driver's track so you can make a difference there as a driver that's what I mean by saying it's a driver's track and I think there's no circuit
that's going to face him when you look at how over the course of the weekend in Zanford last year how he had to jump in and replace Ricardo on I mean of all circuits where you'd say which one would you fear jumping in let alone last minute it would be Zanford it's a real roller coaster ride
of a track no room for error you've got the gravel the sand the grass and big curbs waiting for you if you put a foot wrong so and on top of that you had mixed weather which he survived so I think he'll be absolutely fine on any of those tracks you've mentioned Matt because he's proved his worth
in terms of you know getting up to speed straight away on a very difficult weekend and then performed as Rachel mentioned earlier on at Singapore as well brilliantly well pipping Max Verstappan even in the in the Red Bull car and got him out of Q2 as he surged forwards himself so yeah if you can
do that around a track like Singapore and Zanford then there's nothing to worry about but going to other circuits like Vegas where the rest of the field have been there but you know once before the car is set up like monster levels of downforce it can be maybe another test for him but I think
all in all he's proven his worth in terms of getting up to speed on on any given track in any condition I think the thing that will be harder for him now is that he's been through that honeymoon period where that's always a bit easier for a driver you people give you leeway there are excuses
built in yes of course this is first time doesn't really know the car or doesn't know this track blah blah blah but once you have delivered before then that expectation obviously rises so now we're all expecting him straight away to come in and be on UK's level because that's what he did
before and then once you've been through that like say that honeymoon period where it weirdly you know that low if just mention with the young drivers there's there's nothing to lose there's there's when you first jump in you you you're not overthinking things whereas now that full process might start to kick in for him and then frustrations might start to arise and what you want to were able to do doesn't happen quite as easily and the frustration starts to build even more that's
when it becomes a head game and that's when we're really talking about Formula One. So the talk of the second Red Bull seat Niko on the podcast last week said there is a chance if say we'll come on to talk about the other Red Bull options but but there is a chance if he does really well in these six races he could replace Sergio Perez for the net for next season but again just like ants mentioned that sort of pressure is not very helpful I guess is it if you're trying to focus
on one race at a time the here and now. Well of these six races through them a sprints aren't they to rear sprint weekends so that's different to start with. Secondly he's going to take an engine penalty in Austin so Red Bull have said he'll take an engine penalty so the expectation at Austin maybe slightly less anyway to start with because he's got to start from further back let's
see what happens there but Red Bull have said openly that there are still question marks over Chaco and he needs to find his form they've said he's got another year on his contract so he's there until the end of 2025 but they are looking at that seat so Liam knows this isn't just a seat
in Formula One right now this is potentially a Red Bull seat so for him the pressure must be huge we all loaded him when he came in last year and did what he did but now he's got to live up to that again with the possibility of a Red Bull seat hanging over his head that's massive pressure
it's going to be really interesting to see how he deals with it because we were really impressed with how he dealt with everything before particularly impressed when you hear that you know he knew he didn't have the seat but he still went out and performed he never spoke badly about anyone in
the team or how he'd been treated so we know that he's got a fantastic head on his shoulders and we know he's a good driver if he can put all of that together potentially he could be in the Red Bull next year so for him it's a huge opportunity and I hope you know as Ant says you just you just
take it one race at a time keep your head level but pull out some fantastic performances because the opportunities are there right now and also the Sergio the pressure is on him now for these last six races you know Red Bull have pulled the trigger on one seat we know what they're like so
he's got a perform and Red Bull have said as much in these last six races certainly have and this then perhaps a good opportunity to talk about and I saw this take on online and I thought it was quite interesting because if the staff and does decide to leave Red Bull maybe not next year
but the year after say goes to Mercedes-Rasten Martin as potentially has been rumoured if you actually then look at who Red Bull are left with you got Sergio Perez who think we can all agree has under performed over the last couple of seasons you got Yuki Senoda who as Ant you know we
poor Yuki Senoda we sort of feel like he perhaps should be higher thought of more highly with what he's done in that car you then got Liam Lawson but then after that where where where is the the big sparkly shiny kind of number one driver if you look at competitor Ferrari obviously with Lewis
and Charlotte Claire you compare to McLaren with Oscar Piazzani Landon or these are incredible partnerships of drivers and I do just wonder if the staff and leaves where it where it leaves that Red Bull junior program I mean Rachel is obviously good isn't it that they have usually
Liam Lawson from the junior program but beyond Liam like who else is there perhaps to keep your eye on and also does this mean that the junior program isn't working as well as perhaps they they would want it to work well this was a point Christian was trying to make in that it is
hard to read F2 right now but if you look at the performances that Oli Bermann's put in in an F1 car and you look at the fact that Kimi Antonelli has that Mercedes seat next year why's a cadja is better was doing better than both of them and Franco Colipinto who is now doing brilliantly in
an F1 seat so so I don't think it's as bad as it seems I think we don't know the talent that's there right now because it is so hard to read F2 because there a lot of the teams in F2 have struggled with their new regulations and with this season's car so you can't really read it in a
way that you maybe could have done in the past when the likes of Shah was coming through or George or you know when you look at the previous winners in F2 I think it's harder to read and I think therefore they do have some talent in Isaac Hedgell they do have some talent in Ivan Limbad so I
don't think it's bad as it looks but I agree with you who's going to be the big name alongside one of those drivers in that team because if Max goes I mean George has another year right would George move to Red Bull were they take George at Red Bull if he was a place to say who goes into that number one seat and that's a good question I don't know I think there are plenty of people now that could fill the number two but that number one seat I think is a big question mark.
Oh yeah George to Red Bull Nico floated that idea on the podcast last week which I found very entertaining this Christian and Toto exchange of uh exchange of drivers you can imagine them sort of on a bridge exchanging them one by one going across I don't know um but yeah I mean and and what in terms of final final point then on on Liam and what the job that he's got to do how tough
do you think those six races are going to be for Liam? They'll be tough for him of course and he knows he's got a carry on where he left off he's got to take the fight to Yunkee and the brief is really simple he he's just got to beat Yuki Senoda and I'd say comprehensively he's got to
be he's got to really well Red Bull and to give him them the confidence that they're looking for to potentially replace Sergio Perez with and that's going to take some convincing because Sergio's stood the test of time so far he's a good teammate for Max I think Max yeah he
he enjoys having in there and I think he's a known quantity for for Max and you don't want somebody coming in there rocking the establishment in that regard as well so it's a it's a delicate process a thing that Red Bull are going through here and uh it's nice I guess from there side that they
have this exciting young driver in Lawson that's come along and the others as well and I think you know with Isaac Hadja at Rachel Minjum before they do have younger drivers waiting in the wings and and I think that is proof that the Red Bull young driver program does work can
you only have to look at other categories of drivers have been informal one with the Red Bull program Sean Eric Burns Sebastian Boemi and Tony O'Feedix the cost is just a name of few who have gone on to win championships and become world champions themselves in their own right in other
categories so it's proof it does work whether they've given whether they are given enough time or not when they actually arrive in Formula One that's a different question and maybe that side of things isn't managed quite as well on on Red Bull side but it's it's a difficult process side
it's hard to be in that position with all these young drivers he's super talent waiting in the wings I could say so the the brief of Lawson simple you come in carrying where you left off beat Yuki Senoda hands down outqualify him outrace him score loads of points do
things in that car that we're not expecting that Red Bull aren't expecting that even RB aren't expecting and let's create some headlines you're in that's it's it's as simple as that if you don't perform Sergio Carrizone easy as that simple as that and we're fascinating going to
see how Liam Lawson gets on for the final six races of the season okay final thing to mention on the podcast and I this was an interview that came out with Lewis Hamilton over the weekend where he revealed he's dealt with depression throughout his life it was in the Times newspaper
here in the UK I'll just read you a couple of lines from it which I thought were particularly interesting and he said when I was in my 20s I had some really difficult phases I mean I've struggled with my mental health throughout my life depression from a very early age when I was
13 I think it was the pressure of the racing and struggling at school the bullying I had no one to talk to so a really strong interview from Lewis there and you know he's we know Rachel he's spoken about mental health matters in the past he's spoken to you in interviews hasn't it
hasn't he about it but to hear him say that he's had depression and I guess it just shows the toll perhaps that 2021 and other bigger factors have affected him within his life yeah I mean firstly hats off to him for talking about it because I think it's it's very powerful when someone
like him talks about it and he spoke to me in 2021 about suffering from anxiety but he didn't mention depression and he said that he's always suffered from anxiety and I know the two go hand in hand quite often for a lot of people but when he talked about the depression the article was
fascinating he also I know 2020 and George Floyd and how he stood up in the paddock and wanted to make change happen within the paddock and bring him more diversity I know that took a really big toll on him because I know how how fearful he was before he did that and how he wasn't sure how
it was going to be perceived but it was something he'd felt and been struggling with his whole career in terms of being the only black driver on the grid how he felt the paddock didn't represent society very well and how he felt isolated and I think that must be incredibly difficult I've sat
in a room with you guys for many years as the only female and I know speaking up is hard when when I'm in a room of you guys just men around me speaking up is very difficult that thankfully has changed massively now to where I think we had a race recently where the girls outnumbered the boys
is brilliant but for him to have had that throughout his entire career feeling that he can't speak up in a way and be heard or say how he's feeling must have taken a huge toll on his mental health and I don't think you can underestimate that and so it's incredibly powerful he's spoken
about it I think it's brilliant I hope that it he feels as though it's changing for the better and that we've got to a good place we're not in the right place but we've got to a good place and I hope that that changes every single day from now on moving forward to a point where
that doesn't have a massive impact on somebody's mental health and that everybody feels like they belong and if they don't feel like they belong that they can talk about it and they can be open and and and get help from everyone around them I mean and it's it's really positive isn't it that
the most successful driver in the sports history is making the issue front and center of the news agenda proof proof that as Rachel said the sport is changing or albeit not it's not perfect and it's not in the place we'd like it but it is getting better Lewis has had a real positive
impact on the sport he's got he's got that authority as a seven-time world champion whatever topic he chooses to talk about people are going to listen and he's an intelligent human being anyway I've grown up in the car tracks with Lewis I've been around in my whole life I saw him arrive
in those paddocks as a as an eight-year-old kid and it as a trailblazer in our sport an absolute trailblazer and you know hats off to him so for now to be talking openly about mental health and he's saddens me in many ways I'm gonna proud he has come out and talked
about touched on mental health he's saddens me to think of all those days that I spent with him at the car tracks that he was going through that and but now he's in a position where he feels like he can talk about it and you know I've suffered with anxiety issues like real crippling
anxiety in my days as a driver and and you know there was more to do with with mental health with health anxiety which left me having panic attacks inside the car at times it is awful and for him then to be for Lewis Hamilton to be talking about this gives me the confidence to be
able to talk about it as well and Toto Wolfe has spoken openly about it maybe he gave Lewis the confidence to talk about it and the more we all talk about it the more you realise actually it is quite common but at least now we're able to where he was to talk about it openly and you know
and hats off to Lewis and I hope he I hope he continues really well said Anne and I think it what's lovely is him speaking up about it will just help more and more people when set people seeing those headlines it will help more and more people deal with their own journeys
even a seven-time world champion has bad days and days where he you know finds it really difficult so if a seven-time world champion can feel like that it's okay if you're not a seven-time world champion also feel like that um Rachel and thank you so much for that that was a fascinating chat
about both both of those topics with Daniel and Liam but also Lewis chat as well so thank you very much and we're going to be back as always every Tuesday throughout this break to keep you abreast of the latest Formula One news hope you can join us then bye for now bye