"The cat and mouse games continue" | McLaren finally clash, Is Russell the full package and Nico's guide on eliminating jet lag

You're all boring, you know, was I never wild, you know? Alarm goes 2 a.m. And the first thing I do is go into the bathroom and stare into this 10,000 lux thing, right into it. If I spontaneously combust, I'll know it's... It's just out to you. From there, it's quite natural to say, you know what, take this, you sucker.

hello everybody welcome to the latest edition of the f1 show sponsored by audi so much to get into today we'll do that with the uh the help of ted kravitz and the 2016 world champion nico ross making his podcast debut. Hello to you both. Yeah, we've got Norris's latest era under pressure. Mercedes won three in Montreal as we review the Canadian Grand Prix. George Russell's no-nonsense attitude. We'll have a look.

at the Red Bull protest that was to no avail. We'll get Ted's F1 movie review and we'll even hopefully have time to discuss Luca Di Maio leaving as CEO.

of the Renault Group and see where that leaves Alpine, a struggling Alpine team. Nico, fresh back off the plane. Quite an enjoyable Montreal weekend, wasn't it? Should we start with McLaren and everything that happened there? What did you make of...

of Lando's weekend in particular, because once again, it feels like we're talking about the same thing. He was really good in practice. Pressure came on in qualifying, didn't work out from there. And then he was chasing his tail and made the error in the end.

yeah so it was lovely to be out in canada with you guys it was an interesting weekend because not everything went as expected there was some unexpected performances and all that which is always good if things mix up um and so it was great to see mercedes hit the front that was awesome uh some fresh fresh air there and then yeah lando as you mentioned it's been his achilles heel this year hasn't it um his

mental fragility his doubts and they came to the fore again now in in montreal just when the pressure is highest there's these little mistakes that creep in and they crept in in qualifying where in Q3 he made two major mistakes on his two important laps.

um which meant he only had seventh place on the grid with with perhaps well with one of the fastest cars um so that was difficult and then obviously also in the race in the heat of the moment in the most critical moment where he was trying to pass his championship rival he did a very strange and very strange misjudgment like just driving right into the back of him yeah i mean look it was one of those weekends wasn't it i mean we've seen it so often but i think um

They weren't particularly overly confident. It wasn't necessarily a McLaren track, was it, Ted? They kind of tend to suit the ones where they're working the tyres harder, faster corners. This is long, straight, short radiuses. they still saw flashes of pace from them. But I think if ever there was a track in the last few that was going to be a weakness for them, it was this one. But that doesn't excuse it, I suppose, from Lando's specific.

perspective he said it was stupid he called it out himself he was self-flagellating again wasn't he and uh it's never nice to see that and of course He was leading the championship by 23 points after the first race in Australia. He's now 22 points behind Oscar Piastri. That's a big swing. Yeah, the funny thing for me, hello Simon, hello Nico, hello everybody by the way, the funny thing for me is that Andrea Stella had already called it Damage Limitation Weekend on Saturday.

So there was nobody in any doubt in the McLaren camp as to what really the point of the weekend was, which was just to score as many points as possible, get away with whatever they could do. And then when Oscar goes and gets overtaken by Kimi Antonelli at the start.

it becomes even more like damage limitation. They didn't look like getting past Antonelli, all right? It was bubbling up quite nicely towards the end. And then they decide not only to have this fight between themselves over fourth place, really, but then push... it so hard uh in the case of lando that he makes a misjudgment so that was weird for me and and and i think what what andrea stella means when he says you know we're going to have a discussion about it is okay

What was the point of pushing it too hard? Was the intention just that Lando, after winning Monaco, but then not winning Spain, wanted to make a point about the championship to... to oscar and thought look even though this is fourth place we're gonna i need to have this off you or whether it's just racing i mean obviously it was just racing and then i think the the outcome which is going to be that stella is going to say who is not a man to be crossed andrea stella or a man to to annoy um

I think we need to give each other a bit more racing room. And I suppose the only positive thing you can say about it is that better they were fighting over fourth and fifth, and it was only 10 points lost for Lando, could have been many more for Oscar.

better now than if they were fighting over first and second i think then we'd have a bit more of a thing on our hands don't you yeah uh yeah i'm 175 points nico is their lead in the constructors so i suppose they've given themselves the luxury right of being able to employ papaya rules but the rules of papaya engagement it would seem is that yeah you can race and you can race hard

but you can't crash into each other. And Lando broke that. The gap was not there, right? And he's apologised to the team. But I'm interested to get your thoughts on this one, because if you contrast it with where... And I feel like George has got this no-nonsense, take-no-prisoners attitude these days.

Whereas Lando is clearly struggling up top. Now, I know for a fact that George has used a sports psychologist. And I think you've told me in the past that you've used one. Maybe I'm right in saying that or am I wrong? You tell me. But it strikes me that...

When he's being coached over the radio by his race engineer, Will Joseph, in both qualifying and a little bit in the race, and you think it's mental errors that he's making, is this the kind of thing that maybe he should be looking into? And maybe he is. We just haven't heard about it yet.

um so lando just like i was is a little bit more of a sensitive person and you have a little bit more self-doubts you're a little bit less you're a little bit more insecure and that's just the way we are and the way he is which can also be a strength because that's the kind of person who will question himself more will work more on himself rather than the overly confident yeah i'm the greatest in the world who mostly

attributes blame to other people and doesn't question himself as much but of course is more solid in his head so there's like pros and cons but but of course the sensitive people they are more scared and um more and have more um more going on in their heads there's there's there's there's a lot going on out there so you do uh you can you have there's the chance to improve your mental performance if you work on it and

I actually worked with my psychologist two hours every two days in the winter, the whole winter period, and then during the season as well. And it was extremely intense, harder than actually the physical workouts.

but uh but it it gave me so much gave me so much for the racing for life because you learn you learned uh lifestyle design right we we hear lando eliminating instagram that's one part of the puzzle because instagram and all those negative comments consumes you it completely eats you up so deleting that perfect very good step and there's

15 other steps you can make. It's all about how much do I go clubbing and drinking alcohol? How much do I read the news? Because Instagram is just one part. How much do I read the news?

How much time do I spend in relaxed atmosphere with my best friends and family? It's all part of... lifestyle design all the way to i even worked with a harvard sleep professor to eliminate jet lag completely there was no jet lag and that's another tiny little bit that in the heat of the moment in the biggest pressure moments if you do a whole

of f1 with zero jet lag you will be that ever so slightly fresher and that might eliminate one of those fundamental mistakes and that's really something that lando hopefully should be digging into working on and we've seen elements of that because the other one was just as you said now his engineer is starting to take on the role of a psychologist

And the engineer was saying in the race, Lando, let's reset. He said in the heat of the moment in qualifying, he came on the radio to Lando, Lando, reset your mental state now. And he told him what to focus on, Lando. Lando, don't focus on braking as late as possible because they saw the creeping in again of him exaggerating out on track, him wanting too much.

which first you see that first in braking points when you when drivers start braking way too late everywhere it's just drivers wanting too much So the engineer was telling him, Lando, reset. Lando, focus on your lines in the corners. That's what you need to get right and not breaking as late as possible. So you saw him taking the role of psychologist there. And that's all. If that's something that was pre-discussed.

then it's something very nice if it's just resulting from the team being worried or something then it's not so great because then it's not so helpful to lando it needs to be lando agreeing to all of this and implementing because it can only come from him It's a very interesting point that you raised. I remember talking to Matt Bishop, former head of comms at McLaren recently, and then latterly Aston Martin. Now he's kind of freelance. And he said, you know, don't ever think.

that drivers don't Google themselves or stick their name into Twitter or follow all these comments on Instagram. And they are fragile and it affects them when they go into these team meetings afterwards and debriefs. And if they're thinking about this. It can cost them lap time. But I know that you reached out to Lando, didn't you, Nico? You slipped into his DMs last year with regards to Instagram.

And you said, look, I'm here to help. I've been through this myself. Have you done that this year? Have you got anything back from him? Would you consider consulting him to help him? No, I'm always ready to help young drivers whenever someone will reach out, no problem with pleasure. Just in Lando's case specifically, I've just been through exactly what he's going through.

um or very comparable and that's why and i've and i turned it around successfully because i won in the end so i'm really like so well positioned to to be able to discuss something like that um and that's that's the only reason why i just reached out and and i i just said if ever you want to speak i'm uh i'm uh i'm available there uh yeah no problem

I mean, two things. Firstly, in Lando's defense, you know, he was quicker in that part of the race and he was going for it. And he had sort of teased Oscar up at the breaking for the last chicane, let him go first and had a run on him and had it... Had it turned out, had it worked out, he would have been past Oscar, he would have been put fourth place, and we would have all thought he was a hero. But yes, I agree with you totally on the qualifying stuff, Nico.

How do you cure jet lag, just incidentally, before I forget? Because somebody who didn't go to bed until 2 a.m. last night and had to have a nap after I dropped the kids off at school this morning, I'd like to know. First of all, Ted, how can you not agree with me in the race? You said you agree with me in qualifying.

But you have to agree also in the race that it was a, of course he did an amazing job until then, but then in the, when it counted, it was just a mistake that really was so, so strange because to us. it was like that overtake that the end result with the crash there was no gap there so it's a bit strange to like full gas pedal to the metal try and go there in the in the first place

Yeah, I know. I mean, I'm not a racing driver, but had it worked out, he would have looked amazing. It's just that it... you know it didn't work out and it was a little mistake and i think maybe just in in it yeah i'm just trying to see things from from lando's point of view and maybe it was like you know it's going great it's going great it's going great oh no it's happened again and he doesn't

Maybe it's not a mental thing at that point. It was just a sort of misjudgment, which is what he said at the time.

okay anyways i'm also a big lando fan by the way because he's enormously talented and probably one of the most talented out there and he was my absolute favorite for the championship as well um it's just easy have you changed that nico now yeah so it's it's in canada that i changed that in canada oscar piastri is now my favorite for the championship because um lando is not yet has not yet been able to uh iron out these regular mistakes and that's

That's at the moment what would cost him from winning the championship. And I don't see him ironing out them at the moment. And we have to remember also, it's a new situation that they have never been in before.

it's so different it's so extremely different whether you're fighting for fourth place fifth place eighth place or even whether you're for the first time um the underdog hunting the greatest of this generation max verstappen who is on to win his fourth championship because lando took that role last year he was suddenly hunting him for a possible drivers

but even in there your pressure situation is just so different when you suddenly go into a season and you're the absolute like huge favorite to win the driver's championship you have the car to win every single race that's that's like a 10x difference in pressure and that's what these drivers lando and oscar are now facing and that has caused

it's from my point of view that's what's caused the kind of shift where lando was the dominant driver last year and now oscar has moved ahead and it's for me from my point of view it's just this pressure situation that has that has changed that dynamic um let me move on to your question ted with the with the jet lag so what i did was which is not really realistic for you to do ted because it doesn't make sense

to um to go so extreme but when i would fly to australia uh five days before you know australia is a 10 hour difference so i believe four days four days before leaving to australia It's maximum one and a half hours per day shift that you're allowed to do. if you want to avoid jet lag so four days before leaving um there australia is ahead so you have to wake up earlier leaving in monaco so the day day one uh it would be six o'clock wake up

The next day it would be 4.30 wake up. And the next day would be 3 o'clock wake up. And then the last one would be 1.30 wake up.

i think i did two o'clock wake up and by 2 33 you would see me out on the street running i was jogging i did my morning exercise session three o'clock in the morning in the in monaco and um and then when you when of course i also have to go to bed earlier so not only did i wake up one and a half hour earlier i also went to bed one and a half hour earlier so the last the last evening i went to bed at 6 p.m

uh or even 5 30 p.m the last evening in monaco and you have to then also put blackout glasses so completely blacked out glasses so you see really a minimum amount because that allows for the melatonin to not be stopped because it's the eyes seeing light that stops melatonin production. So you put the blackout glasses two hours before your actual bedtime. So the last day, my bedtime is six.

PM, my blackout glasses went on at 4 PM. So you'd see me running around with the full blackout glasses, which is coincidentally the kind of approach that I see George Russell doing now in life.

lifestyle design you know around formula one which is really really cool to see he's also someone who's dedicating himself to all of these marginal improvements and that's resulting in his amazing performance at the moment and i was definitely trying to maximize that and when i would wake up at two o'clock in the morning here in monaco i also had a 2000 10 000 lux uh screen uh glaring so i would first thing i would do so alarm goes 2 a.m

and the first thing i do is go into the bathroom and stare into this 10 000 lux thing right right into it to uh to again get the tell the body okay it's morning time let's go um so it's all these tools and the The final piece of the puzzle is the flight schedule. So we always made sure that there was no layovers in the critical sleep time moments. So the whole flight schedule was also done accordingly to this.

a one and a half hour step in transition and i really did the whole season i did the whole season with 0.0 jet lag traveling the whole world you know how crazy it is Never had jet lag. And it changed my life. This was amazing. It doesn't work with kids, does it, Ted? There's no way we could do that. School run here, school run there.

possibly incompatible with a family life when you're not going for the championship. But it worked for you, Nico. So thank you very much for telling us about that. Yeah. Right. How did you know, Nico, that the thing in the back of your selfie once again was going to be race critical yourself crazy that's pretty crazy right because i was like i was like

what on earth are you guys talking about like stop it there's not even a car or a person there's not even a car or a person myself here and then there's actually the exact spot where where lando impacts the wall like oh my goodness that's pretty nuts so what's the lesson i'm gonna do a selfie in future with i don't know just in a room or something where there's nothing

But at least I'll say at the bottom, I am actually at the race, but I'm just doing it in a room to protect everybody. Yeah, you took one with me. So if I spontaneously combust, I'll know it's...

You actually made a good point. Let's get on to George and the way that he's driving. Ted, I'll come to you on this one. Because if you give him a well-balanced car. george is just he's the full package now he's like so mentally tough i i really am enjoying

this sort of pantomime act between himself and Max. They're actually really nice to each other in the cool-down room, but the fact that George was saying after qualifying... trying to get in his head and saying, you know, I've got a few more penalty points to play with and then we'll come on to the protest and...

the unsportsmanlike intent that Red Bull were lobbying for in a couple of moments of time. But let's just get into Mercedes weekend. As you quite rightly pointed out, they ran that rear suspension that they tried in Imola and it didn't work. But these were really, really hot temperatures. And it was still a really good car. Well, it was a good car, I should say, perhaps, or the strongest it's been this year. So what are we to read into that, if anything?

Well, the way it was explained to me was that with Mercedes, it's the surface temperature where they are... good on the tyres. If it's a bulk tyre temperature like circuits that affect that like Spain I suppose or like Bahrain when the bulk of the tyres McLaren are great at keeping

that under control, but when it's just surface temperature, and at Canada, correct me if I'm wrong, Nico, the tyre has a chance to cool off on the surface temperature, then actually that's sort of Mercedes territory. First win since Las Vegas, so it shows that you can do it, resisted the pressure. of Verstappen, stretched his legs once he was clear of the traffic, didn't look under any kind of

you know, danger of losing it to Verstappen and delivered. Yeah. So it was a good weekend. I'm just wondering whether you think after kind of losing the battle in Abu Dhabi last year, after George's I've lost all respect for Max. And I think the solution, the kind of wisdom was that when you go up in a war of words against Max in that way, it's difficult to win. And so what George has done is kind of step back from that.

but is still using that kind of rivalry. And it's all kind of tied up in that Qatar argument before when Max said, I've never seen somebody try to have someone over on a penalty so much as... as what George did to me. I think this is all carrying on from that, really. And George has realized that

Okay, you know, it's part of the game. I'm not going to badmouth him anymore saying that he's lost respect for him because I'm not going to win that. But they'll try anyway to get themselves in amongst it. But you know, it happened again in Montreal because under the safety car, Max was being cheeky and trying to go right next to George.

which you don't you don't like that as a driver when you see this guy trying to make himself really big next to you like it feels like he's trying to add pressure and so George slammed the brakes He slammed the brakes and made Max overshoot him. So Max actually overtook him. And I've never seen someone be so fast on the radio button. So Max overshoots him by a meter.

George is instant. He probably had his thumb on the radio button already. So he's instant on the radio button. Max just overtook me. Max just overtook me. You need to check that out. So. So the games continued, didn't they, in Montreal? And it's lovely for us to watch that. And I think it's great how George is standing up to it and he keeps on pushing up against it.

i don't think you can be really good friends in that case when something like that just continues and continues all the time i think they have a decent respect still towards each other but you can't be you can't be friends um when when something like that keeps going on and in fact i think also the red bull um the fact that red bull then

How do you say, what do you say, appealed? The fact that Red Bull appealed, it wouldn't surprise me if that was pushed by Max. Because Max got angry that George, like, hit the brakes. tried to get him into a penalty situation. So Max was like, I'm not having that. Let's asking his team to appeal to try and get him into Georgian trouble. It wouldn't surprise me. So we're seeing the cat and mouse games continue, which is great.

Well, Toto had actually said he didn't think that Max would do that because he's a pure racer. But what Red Bull did do, didn't they, after qualifying and George's comments, I think they went to race director, to Rui Barquez, and they said, look, just watch out for this because we think that everyone's going to try dirty tactics to try to get.

Max Ban for a race because that would particularly hurt his chances if indeed he still got a chance of winning the title in 2025. But the whole point is, it took five hours.

So the protest that was lodged against Car 63 by Red Bull was that they breached Article 55.5 of the F1 sporting regulations by braking unnecessarily and therefore driving erratically behind the safety car. And then 12.2.1... of the International Sporting Code, whereby complaining about driver one overtaking behind the safety car, that showed unsportsmanlike intent, which kind of a bit of...

Pot kettle black, you might suggest from these ones. But actually, if you go all the way back to Abu Dhabi 2021, I think one of the two protests that was thrown out by the stewards was Mercedes. I mean, there's a lot more at stake, wasn't there? But Mercedes complaining that Max Verstappen...

had overtaken behind the safety car, and nothing came of that one. So we get all these shenanigans all the time, but it meant that a couple of people missed flights. Toto Wolff's called it embarrassing. Christian saying that... it's just acting pragmatically they saw something wrong why not try it but it does seem like a bit of an unnecessary faff doesn't it ted

Yeah, I mean, two things on this. First of all, I think this is all a carryover from Red Bull feeling aggrieved that Max tried his best.

Qatar last year, that George tried his best to get max penalty, and did. And they're like, well, you know, have a bit of this back. Secondly, Red Bull are rightly concerned that if Max does get a silly penalty for nothing, then they could have gone to their home race in Austria with... just Yuki Tsunoda and say, for example, Isaac Hadjar, or Liam Lawson, and Yuki isn't exactly

knocking it out the park at the moment. And as our co-host Bernie Collins says, when Max isn't driving the car, often that Red Bull is only the eighth, ninth, or sometimes tenth quickest car.

in in formula one so when max isn't driving the red bull it's not a quick car uh either in yuki's hands liam's hands or we don't know what isaac's hands so seeing that and the weird thing for me thirdly the race was done there were it was not going to restart i think all the drivers knew that and so george wasn't really in a sort of position um

to think about, well, you know, I need to keep my tires warm. So then the games could carry on. And then I think the Red Bull were nervous about there being... a look at whether he had overtaken George under the safety car. But he hadn't fully overtaken him, so that was okay. But I think Red Bull's point of view, the best form of defense was attack in that moment. And so they attacked George.

with the unsportsmanlike intent, maybe to get it in before the stewards had a point. But Red Bull were properly discussing it. They were really, you know, they were on the pit wall. with Christian Horner with their rules guy with Raymond Vermeulen with Helmut Marko, after the race, they were properly thinking about, you know, we're going to have a think about protesting this because in their in their mind, it was clear what George was doing.

and that he hadn't stayed within the requisite length of space behind the safety car. Whereas I asked Ron Meadows at Mercedes, I said, are you going to take this to the stewards at all? And it's like, no, we haven't got a problem. We haven't got a problem with Max overtaking us.

a bit under the safety car. Mercedes didn't have a problem with it at all. Maybe it's because they just won. Gave it back. Anyway, that's the whole point. And they were just saying, he was saying that for context, just to point it out. But there was no, because he gave it back. There was no problem there.

um so there we are but it finished under the safety car which is a shame i think there were a bit of talk that one of the reasons he slammed owns because the safety car was driving so slowly because they wanted to try to get one racing lap in it goes

all the way back again. You know, Jacques Villeneuve made the point should they red flag it and then give us the opportunity to finish it under green flags and not under the safety car. Because it denied us at the end, didn't it? What we hope would be a good one.

that's a nice idea it's a nice idea perhaps if there's a risk of it finishing on the safety car too red flag it and give us some racing because it's it's really always the biggest letdown isn't it when a race finishes under safety car we hate that so that could be something an idea to explore how can how can one what can one do to give us racing to the end. Yeah, that would be nice.

Quick one on Kimi Antonelli, Nico, before we go to the break. It started slowly, built into the weekend. Nice little Father's Day present for Marco, who was there. First podium, third youngest podium sitter in this year, Formula One, behind Max. and Lance Stroll. So, yeah, great, great weekend for him. Yeah, I can just remind that Kimi drove in my go-karting team, so I know what kind of a generational talent he is. He's one of...

He can be of the level of Verstappen and Hamilton because that was his speed in go-karting. And so it was lovely to see him. It's because also for a young driver, also mentally, it's so important, these milestones that, okay, you can see, wow, yes, I can do it. I can be on the podium in F1. And especially after a couple of difficult weekends that he had, he had really rough three weekends in a row.

He had really rough three weekends in a row before that. So that was awesome. He's still missing a little bit in qualifying. His race pace seemed to be really strong also on Sunday because he was always there. He was always really on it, really close to Max.

so race pace was cool because it's a very very difficult race canada it's super super hard to keep your concentration keep the tires um in good shape it's very very hard race so that was cool to see he's still missing something in qualifying which is surprising to me because he's only once so far on one lap this whole year shown like the brilliant pace that we kind of think that he's capable of and that was just Miami never ever elsewhere have we seen

the brilliant pace so that i hope he can somehow very quickly find some more there but we know as at the same time he's up against one of the top two three of this generation currently in f1 on one lap which is george russell So, of course, it's an extremely hard benchmark, but still, I would like to see a little bit more there. Just finally, before the break, though, George Russell, contract situation.

doing everything he needs once again. Do we think that it's going to materialise before the summer break? Or do we think that it's already done? Or where do we think this leaves him, Ted? Yeah, Toto last night was saying to Craig Slater that it's time over the next couple of races, Austria and Silverstone to have a sit down with with George.

Is Toto sure that Max is off the market? Does he know whether Max is going to come on the market at the end of 2026? Will it be a multi-year deal with George Russell? I suppose those are all... options to be sort of you know details to be ironed out but yeah it looks like uh george will certainly be there

um for next year but um do we really think that george having won the race was thinking okay job done i've won the race it's not going to be restarted now time to get max a penalty no ted ted when you're in safety car and you see Max Verstappen being cheeky and trying to make you nervous. by making himself really big right next to you in that mirror, you know, in the exact spot where the mirror is facing. You don't like that. It really annoys you as a driver.

like really properly, like deeply, deeply annoys you. And so it's only from there, it's quite natural to say, you know what, take this, you sucker. So yes, he did want to hit the brakes and give one back to Max there. Okay. All right. There we are. That's how it looks from inside the cockpit. It's great, great insight. But there we are. Nothing made of it, thrown out, and the result stands right. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, as promised, we'll discuss.

The F1 movie, get Mark Kermode, our version of Mark Kermode, talking about it, having seen it at the press screening. We'll review that, talk about Luca de Maia and some of the other stories as well from Canada, including Ferrari.

Welcome back to the F1 show podcast sponsored by Audi. Let's wrap up some of the other stories from the weekend in Canada and start with Ferrari and also send our condolences. to the deceased groundhog uh rip groundhog that uh the poor old lewis hamilton ran over it lost or it cost him 20 points of downforce so there's a reason for it i mean lewis was

traumatised by it. He wasn't happy, was he? He didn't like hitting that groundhog, but it's one of the occupational hazards of where we are at the circuit, Gilles Villeneuve. What do we make, Nico, of Ferrari's weekend? Charles Leclerc in fifth. Ruined his Friday. Then got caught in the dirty hair of Hadjar, but built back in to finish fifth and Lewis Hamilton in sixth. Could they, I suppose, have tried the one-stop? Is the thing hanging over Ferrari's weekend?

Yeah, Ferrari. We've got to remember that Charles Leclerc was quick at times in the race. He was very quick. He was keeping up with the McLarens very nicely. He was quick in qualifying. Some say he could have been top three in qualifying right up there with the others. But I think, was he on a medium? No, he wasn't a soft, right? I think they also did a wrong tire choice in qualifying. So they did a lot of strategy.

mistakes there because then also in the race they put Lewis they stopped Lewis into a bunch of traffic which lost him like loads of race time And they also they had a free opportunity to try a one stop with Charles. It was a free opportunity. And they didn't. They didn't try to do it. Because behind there was just Lewis and loads of space. There was nobody there. And they could have taken a shot at it and left him out on that first stint in the first place.

because he was going strong and they just pulled him in really early in that first stint, which he was also a bit annoyed about because he wanted to stay out longer. So yeah, it was a bit of a clumsy weekend from Mercedes, from Ferrari, and then also bad luck with the Groundhog.

So it all came together, which is not good. It's like the story of their year so far, isn't it? It just keeps on going like that. It's a tough one for them. At a weekend when they really needed a big result, you know, a podium would have silenced some of the voices coming out of Italy.

And, you know, Leclerc, that was his mistake. You could argue that there were more, you know, more strategic errors that Nikos were talking about. But really, the quote for me of the weekend was Lewis after qualifying, which said, look, you know, we just have.

understand that you know we are way off at the moment at ferrari we're way off being a team we've got a lot of issues we need to fix a lot of changes both in the car and in the operational way that we go racing um and i said this on the notebook of time you know saying that what we already knew all right they finished second in last year's constructors but they have gone back backwards this year and they do have um structural changes to the organization

that maybe need fixing, whether that's the team boss. Some people in Ferrari seem to think so. I don't. But they're far off being a championship team at the moment.

So I've seen a little bit of inner workings there at Ferrari and you can see that just some of the things, the level of excellence that they're at is not comparable to the British teams and especially to someone like Mercedes. on in in many areas whether it goes from marketing um to to other areas so you can just see there the whole culture the fact that they're in italy it makes it a lot more difficult to them. And I think also Lewis is like, for example, at Mercedes.

Lewis, whenever Lewis had a thing, he would just go to Toto and Toto would be able to make the decision, call the shot, immediately done. Whereas at Ferrari, there's like so many different decision makers.

There's so many different decision makers at Ferrari and even Lewis doesn't really know, like, okay, if I ask him and he says yes and he does it and the other guy still complains afterwards, it's a bit, it's all a bit... difficult there and there's a couple of ideas that i heard also going around like i think ferrari has been exploring to perhaps open a kind of subsidiary in the uk because that's where the f1 ecosystem is

So I've heard rumors that they're also thinking about opening a subsidiary there. The problem then again is just getting the communication right. If you do have an entity, a Ferrari entity in the UK... that's one thing but it still needs to communicate awesomely with the headquarters and and then maybe that's not possible to get the communication that good that that actually makes sense so there's

so they're facing these all these kind of questions because there must be a reason why they're just year in year out they haven't won a world championship since 2007 if i'm not mistaken or eight whatever the year was They would have to really look at some fundamental things. What is going wrong? Why are they not able to challenge the best? yeah 2007 for uh kimmy reichen in 2008 for the last constructors for them but i actually does open up the question because you talk about that about having

everything under one roof. When you talk to Andy Cowell about his time at HPP and Mercedes, one of the strengths in the turbo hybrid era, you know that is that they were effectively, everything was tied in and under one roof. Now Aston Martin.

And I suppose it leads us on to a very good weekend for Fernando Alonso. But they're going to be faced with that challenge too, in that they've got Honda over in Japan and the big factory, the brand new spanking factory in Silverstone for Aston. But Fernando finished seventh.

He loves Canada. You know you require so much precision around that track. You just discussed there, Nico. Last three races in the row, he's qualified in the top six. They look now potentially like the fifth quickest car. And certainly on average, they are.

since Imola, moving slightly in the right direction. But then you look on the other side of the garage and Lance Stroll has one of those weekends. A bit of a mystery. I'd love to know what's going on there with the wrist. He got a penalty in the race.

um he qualified way down and it was kind of an anonymous weekend wasn't it for for him at his home grand prix so we're looking at another uh another team at the moment a little bit like red bull and they've got one driver who is pushing the car to the limit and the other one Unfortunately, he's the owner's son. Who isn't? What do you think of what's going on at Aston Ted, Nico? I think it's okay. I mean, Fernando's now...

got the points rolling and is just going to sort of carry on. They need some upgrades. which we don't know when they're going to happen. But yeah, Lance had an unfortunate one. And when you have a 10-second stop-go penalty after causing a collision, which Lance served in the middle of the race, then really you're not going to score any points. Can I just go back to something you said, Simon, or Nico said on Ferrari, which ties in with Aston Martin? I mean, obviously, Aston Martin...

They don't have the engine under the same roof, but they will go to, you know, they'll go to Honda next year. That will be a split. But they are in the UK where they can take advantage of all the sort of sensor of... of excellence. I can understand

Two things on Ferrari. First of all, Torosso, whatever they're called these days, Racing Bulls, they're setting up a design and development and mechanics base in Red Bull technology in the UK. They're based in Italy, but they're setting it up in the UK. So that will be a good test case as to whether it can work with remote working as much easier. But where Ferrari tried this back in the late 80s and 90s was with Ferrari design and development in Guildford under John Barnard.

didn't have the technology have been able to work remotely the way that we have now, it was a bit of a disaster. And that's why maybe some people with long memories are thinking that maybe it's not great to split. a sort of UK-based part of Ferrari. But there's no reason, as Nikko says now, with the way modern communications are, that it couldn't work. But that would be sort of a big call for them to do. But yeah, no, with Aston...

I think they just have to keep going. Ferrari say they're going to have an upgrade. Maybe we should judge Ferrari after their big upgrade in Austria and Silverstone that maybe hopes to fix some of the issues at the back of the car. Nico, tell us about Aston. Come on. I'd love to know your thoughts on it because, you know, you've obviously got a double world champion in one side of the garage and Lance who started the season well, but it's kind of like...

fallen away a little bit. What do you think of things going on? I always think that then Fernando is driving at his very very best which we know fernando sometimes even with cars that are not so good can do incredible things and it looks to me a bit like that

And then on the other hand, just Lance, who's just still struggling with that car. And it's a horrible situation to be in something like that. And especially then... even more so when when you're the son of the owner that just makes the whole dynamic uh it's it's difficult internally uh and difficult for him also so i don't really see i don't know what the solution is apart from him

continuing to really do his best work hard be in the simulator because that will go a long way with the team if they see that he's he's at the very least trying so damn hard that's going to be important for him at this point um and okay that's that's that and then on the on the honda i mean adrian newey

already has done that um work with honda being um at a distance so adrian newey so actually from that point of view they're well placed because it's a workflow that adrian has already been doing for all the years So that's great. So that should help. And therefore, I really think that can be a great success. Adrian is still the best of all time as a car designer.

and he's hit the ground running. I hear stories of him again being on his drawing board and all the Aston aerodynamicists with their mouths open following him drawing, drawing on the drawing board with the pencils. which is incredible. They have all their computers open with teraflops of computing power and data and he's in front just drawing. That's unbelievable. It's funny enough.

You know, the great F1 illustrator, Giorgio Piola, when you speak to him, he's up and down the pit lane and his things are a work of art and still traces and draws them all, illustrates everything freehand. He said, of all the designers that he's ever met that could draw.

Better than him, it was Adrian. Or as good as him, it was Adrian. Whereas people like Ross Braun, brilliant technically, but they couldn't draw anything freehand. Can we doff our caps, please, by the way, whilst we're here? Just a final couple of stories from on the grid.

Nico Hulkenberg, as we've discussed him before, we know what a great driver he is. It's good to see him in sort of semi-competitive machinery again. And that Sauber... is improving. If you look at all the, by the way, just operationally, look at all the pit stops. I think it's something like eight of the 10 quickest ones have been Ferrari. So they might not have sorted their strategy out. They sorted their pit stops out.

But the other two, Sauber. Jonathan Wheatley's there. Mattia Bonota's there. All of a sudden, they're moving in the right direction. You can tell us a little bit, Nico, if you want, about... um nico hulkenberg because he's got that one pole position but he's still never finished on a podium

It would be great, wouldn't it, if Audi could give him some competitive machinery? Because I'd love to see him at the front battling it out. He's more than capable, isn't he? But you're right. They have Red Bull senior leadership. They have ex-Ferrari senior leadership. That's a lot of experience that they have there now. And it seems that they are already able to implement some of their learnings to help that car go faster. Because even Mattia, Mattia knows some of the...

important things that Ferrari has done to manage the tires and tire temperatures, bulk, surface. It's something that he would be pretty quickly able to teach the Sauber team, right? It seems that they're really making progress, which is great. Gives a little bit of hope for that Audi project, which until as of late, it was like, we're all a bit like, oh my God, that's not looking very good. But it gives them a little bit of hope. And then Nico Holcomb.

yeah fantastic fantastic driving he's been doing uh really amazing he's he's always been a he's he was a generational talent coming through just like an oscar piastri or george russell because just like them he also won every He won Formula 4, Formula 3, Formula 2. He was unstoppable. And somehow he's underperformed a little bit in F1. A part of that is social intelligence or emotional intelligence or whatever was not his absolute strength.

He pissed off a few people back in the day, which did hurt his career progression. And then somehow also in terms of performance.

like he was up against daniel ricciardo at renault and daniel beat him sometimes something just came a bit short there and i don't know if it's because he maybe doesn't do well enough on the technical side because as a driver it doesn't matter how talented you are if you're not able to set the car up perfectly to your needs time and time again you'll not be able to perform well so that's an element where maybe he's not as good

there or something it's difficult to understand anyways now he's doing brilliantly and it would be crazy if after that career where he's never been on the podium he would now suddenly get a podium where he was very close even with Sauber in Barcelona finishing fifth which is amazing and if he would get it without he would be a super

kind of, yeah, twilight of the career results. So let's wish it for him. Now, as we were on air, it broke that Luca Di Maio, who's the CEO of the Renault Group.

is leaving he's going to become the ceo of caring which is the holding company high-end luxury fashion so at least he's going to be well dressed from now on he probably was anyways at italian um they owe um who do they own yves salarone gucci alexander mcqueen however and we talked about this didn't we with ollie oakes when he left a while back perhaps the problems at renault

could be traced back to the higher levels of management. So since he took over in 2020, we've had Marcin Budkowski, Otmar, Bruno Famine, Oli Oaks, and now no team principal, but we've got Flavio Briatore there. what what's going on i mean what i'm hearing is that He was a bit of a sacker, wasn't he? He liked to sack people. And perhaps what they require is stability. It's a strange situation they find themselves in. And is there any coincidence that he's left whilst they're plumb last?

Yeah, I mean, we know how important stability is for the performance of a team. It's one of the weaknesses of Ferrari also, who've had a lack of stability as well, changing a lot of leadership positions all the time in the last years. someone like Mercedes, where if I walk into Mercedes today, the leaders from my time 15 years ago are still there in most of the key roles. It's really awesome to see that continuity. And at the same time, there's young talent coming through as well to compliment.

so um yeah and uh alpine yeah i mean you need like when i was at mercedes and we were driving around around like last place they were almost going to pull the plug every weekend because it's they're paying a lot of money and it's anti-marketing it's marketing that is damaging the the brand of alpine and renault if you're just driving around in last place and also in the in the face of the

challenging environment for the automotive industry where sales are plummeting the shift to e-mobility is a struggle the chinese are coming in and conquering more and more market share tesla is taking market share the first thing that you cut is marketing budget and marketing the f1 team falls under marketing budget so we need to keep an eye on that now with new leadership whether he's pro f1 or against f1 but a difficult situation at the same time

I think Flavio, he will always be an awesome CEO. So I think he's going to be doing a great job for them in the short term because he knows how to judge people. He knows how to position people. Let's remember, he came from the fashion business and he was the guy.

guy who bet heavily on Michael Schumacher right from the get-go. He developed the high conviction of Michael Schumacher generational talent and he was like a fashion industry guy. He has an amazing eye for talent. And so I think from that point of view. They're in a good position with him now. But Ted, I mean, Flav was Lucas. Matt, I just want to read you something here from Informe or La Forme, which is a publication from France that specializes in investigating an economic and financial world.

stating that, you know, Briatore is getting 2 million euros in fixed compensation, which is more than De Meo, but also gets a 20% share. In all sponsorship deals he brings to the team previously such commissions were not allowed. Other well-placed sources say that Briatore's paid €4 million a year without commissions. Whatever the case, it's not helping. This has been printed.

um de mayo because de mayo was the one directly responsible for putting uh for putting flav in place it was nothing to do with the board of renault so i just wonder where it leaves flav now i mean is he in a

Is he in a position? He doesn't want to be team principal, does he? You know, what's he going to do without support from above? I mean, is there any chance that the incoming CEO of the René group is going to support him? Why do you say he doesn't want that? Why do you say he doesn't want that? I think he loves it.

No, well, maybe he does. But I mean, you know, the man that appointed him is now gone. But Flavio appears, you know, I mean, he's the man in position and he's the man in power now, it would seem. But I mean, Flavio will say, look, this isn't going to cost you. This doesn't have to cost Renault anything. Formula One does not have to cost any...

holding company, anything with the budget cost, with the budget cap, and the prize money, all right, they're last in the constructors at the moment. And, you know, it can be cost neutral. And so with the sponsorship from BWT and all these other sponsors that Alpine has, if we keep costs under control and Flavio says that, you know, I keep bringing in the sponsors.

with or without a commission, I don't know whether that's true or not, then it can be cost neutral and then it's up to he'll hope that he can convince the new ceo who he would hope to still be an advisor to whoever that is um that he would continue to to keep the f1 thing going is it going to keep being called Alpine.

because they want to promote their sporty brand. That's up for discussion. Is it better to be called Renault? And they're on the cusp of maybe a better 2026 because they're going to have the Mercedes power unit. So I think they'd be well advised, the Renault group.

to sort of hold on, see what happens in 2026, and then make a group decision after that. But it's not impossible they can sell the team because, as you know, Simon, there are buyers out there. There are buyers out there now. I'm not saying this could be the case, but we know that there's a couple of people. Well, one man looking to be a 12th team. I actually spoke to Omar Safnau, by the way, this morning before this podcast with regards to...

His team, his perceived 12th team, they've got significant financial backing in North America. He says that they're... quite easily be able to raise. It's going to be roughly about a billion if you want to start a new team because of the five to 700 million dilution fee that you're going to have to pay plus about 300 million to start up a team. He says he's got backing from an OEM.

very credible, familiar with racing, and they've raced in other series in the past. So, I mean, I'll leave you to do your sleuth-like investigations on that. But I just wonder, actually, you know, I mean, I'm not necessarily thinking he would do that, but if they wanted to, they could.

They could sell. It's a good time to sell if you were Renault, isn't it? I mean, everyone's making money in this cost cap here at Eco. Yeah. I mean, Ted is right. Now with them finishing last in the constructors, I think they would actually... lose a bit of money and the problem is the return on investment is negative because because it's negative marketing to be last it's really it's bad for any brand to be last in sports

So that's something which they will be considering. Nico, thanks for joining us. I know you've got to drop out. Thanks, mate. Appreciate you joining us. We'll see you soon. Thank you very much. Bye, guys. Thank you. Right then, Ted.

we weren't in new york city we're here in our offices and spare rooms i know they had a great time do you want to show the picture should we show the picture we can you can show i mean the picture of brad with crofty and Martin Slats was there. What a shame. Maybe we'll go to the London one. Who knows? I'll hold up the picture, but we'll show it full frame because Crofty has... What a picture that is.

Lifetime ambition. Three big stars of the movie. Three big stars and Times Square. Bless them. That is fantastic. One bigger than the other two. He's so happy. One literally, one metaphorically. yeah let's talk about it you saw it you went to the press screening on on thursday wasn't it in montreal it's got some really rave reviews following the premiere by the way i was looking online this morning and there's not a bad word to say about it what did you think

No, it's great. So you're going to see, everybody watching is now going to see, because the embargo is Tuesday evening here in the UK, lunchtime in the US. So you're now going to see... all of the reviews. And I've got to say, it's absolutely terrific. It's they've really achieved, it's quite long, it's over two hours, but you don't notice that.

either as a Formula One fan or if you go with your family members or friends who aren't Formula One fans, it really holds the interest. It looks spectacular, not only with the racing. the racing sequences, which are filmed at, you know, Top Gun Maverick level, and better. Because of course, Joseph Kaczynski was directed that, that Top Gun sequel, but also

the stylized stuff. I mean, there's a scene in a laundrette at the beginning, which just looks fantastic, where Javier Bardem comes and finds the sort of nomadic Brad Pitt and convinces him to join his... failing Apex team. The opening sequence at the Daytona 24 hours is spectacular.

as well. So that's a real nice surprise early on that we get this sort of other racing series. There's a very well considered backstory with a sort of bit of Formula One history with to explain Brad Pitt's backstory as to why he's kind of this nomadic racer that goes between series and Javier Bardem, the team owner, has to kind of convince him to come and give Formula One another go to get him out of trouble.

alongside Damson Idris. And then it's just full of great characters. Not only do you have, you know, Bardem, you've got his sort of Piranha Club investor, Tobias Menzies. And then you've got the pit crew as well. You've got the team boss. kind of Toto Wolff, sort of Fred Vassar figure, who's Kim Bodnia. um who played constantine in uh in killing eve and he's he's he's terrific you've got the technical director kerry condon who's brilliant in anything uh she does and you know from from

from the Banshees of Inishiran to the F1 movie, she's pretty much playing the same character, which is smart. Hold on, hold on. But this character, her character is based on our fellow pod, sort of based on our fellow podcast, Bernie. Bernie's the love interest. I mean, she's not only the strategist, but also the technical director and the designer. So it's a kind of hybrid Bernie Collins that she's based on. But even then

You know, she's strong in terms of telling the drivers what to do, coordinating with the pit crew. So she's kind of multifaceted role is the character of Kate that Kerry Condon plays. i'm so pleased they let her do it in her sort of original bernie collins you know style irish that uh you know it was like it's just brilliant that's why i say it's not not not dissimilar to Kerry's Siobhan Sullivan, her character, her strong character in Banshees of Inner Sheeran. It's like, you know.

you're all boring you know was i never wild you know it's like it's the same one it's great she's like you lot you have to understand very good um pit crew actually showing um the pressures of the engineers and then the pit crew as well Yeah. Because like pretty much in every Formula One team now, there's a female mechanic character who's struggling to... to make sure that she's well represented and delivers in her role. There's a very good character.

in there as well and it looks fantastic damson idris is is brilliant sort of you know sparkles every time he's on there his manager samson ko is very good his mom sarah niles is excellent as well Whenever they cut to their flat, it seems to be in sort of hackney wick on the overground line. And they sort of let the orange overground trains rumble past and then they kind of shout action.

and then which is quite funny um and there are all sorts of little easter eggs in there there's a there's a shot of no spoilers no spoilers no spoilers there's a little there's a little bit um A reference to Rusty, Brad's character in the Oceans films that you'll have to watch out for. And, you know, its heart is in the right place. The action is fantastic.

The characterization is great. There is a little bit with Stefano Domenicali at the end and Toto Wolff. So sort of bring some of the characters in it from Formula One. None of the drivers speak. Interestingly, not even Lewis Hamilton, who's a co-producer.

um there is some advertising in there that some people might find irritating but hey what is formula one if not if not full of advertising and uh and products but um yeah i loved it it was really good really really good so what are you giving it How many stars out of five? Oh, definitely four and a half. Four and a half stars? Yeah, definitely four and a half. Is that half a star missing because of Crofty's performance? No. I heard Crofty is exceptional with his drama O-level.

in this and you know he's he's thoroughly embraced embraced being a a movie star and we're going to have to cope with that over the next few weeks he's in he's in large parts of the film as uh is martin and they do a good job explaining it's very difficult the job they've got to do because not only did they have to do the commentary but they have to explain bits they have to explain safety car and virtual safety car

uh essentially to the audience which you know we struggle to do at the best of times but when you're having to do it you know we have to explain it to my 14 year old daughter who's going to need to go and understand why there's an element of the plot that involves the safety car and how that impacts what apex grand prix are doing with damson and brad that's quite difficult you might have seen from the trailer as well there's a sort of fiery moment so you know that's not

difficult to work out that they've gone with the Grosjean story and developed that. So they've taken key moments from recent F1 history that people will be aware of, and perhaps the greatest achievement. is melding and interwinding the Apex cars into race events that we saw happen in 2023.

which is the year that they were competing. That's amazing how they've managed to do that, whether it's like a, you know, a Gasly spinoff or something else. The Apex cars are in there and they've taken advantage. So they would have had to watch. the races and think okay right we're going to take this we're going to use it in part of our plot and then that's going to make

change the apex story as to how they do well or don't. I won't spoil it anymore. But yeah, absolutely terrific. Brilliant. Well, I'm lining up the sequel already. um it's fantastic yeah the reviews are great we did i i asked um jerry brookheimer in the press conference in In Canada, I said, I know it's a bit early for this, but is there any chance of a sequel? And he said that's up to the audiences.

If it gets good audiences and people go and see it and they want a sequel, then there could be sequels. But what are they going to call it? F2? F3? F1-2. F1-2. That'd be F12. Yeah, that'd be a hard one. Maybe they just keep it like that and then have a tagline. All right, that's about us. Well done, Ted. Appreciate it. Thanks to Nico, who's scuttled off. And we shall see you in a couple of weeks time. Next up is Austria. But from us all here at the pod, ta-ta.