You Can’t Lead From Behind a Desk

[MUSIC]

Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast, a show for the new generation of leaders. Join Melissa R. Skog as she speaks to a wide variety of guests that bring new insights into leadership, prosperity, and personal growth. While now it has all the answers, by building a community of open-minded and gauge leaders, we hope to give you the tools you need to help you find your own path to success. [MUSIC] I am over the moon today to have one of my dear friends, Michelle Klein, join me on this podcast.

When I first decided to do my own very own podcast, the first person that came to mind was Michelle Klein. And I knew I was gonna wait until she was ready to do my first podcast. So I'm thrilled she's here today to speak with you. Michelle, do you mind telling our listeners a little bit about you and your background? Well, first of all, thank you, Melissa for having me and congratulations. Starting up, podcast is a big endeavor and it's exciting and I'm so happy for you.

So my name is Michelle Klein. I am president and operator of Klein Hospitality. Company where we help people grow, we work on leadership and performance coaching both on an individual setting and a group setting. So basically what we do is we create difficult conversations that produce growth and transformation in individual contributors and in teams as well. I love it and when I think of leaders, Michelle, I think of you.

So we could talk for hours about leadership, but generally speaking, what does leadership mean to you? That's a very loaded question and I know you send a few options of questions there and I was thinking through this last night and it's really a really loaded question why because leadership is a lot of things, right? Leadership is teaching leadership is helping others grow. Leadership is knowing how to guide people in times of crisis and how do you go through crisis as opposed to avoiding it.

There is no way to avoid that. It's inspiring, it's coaching, it's having those difficult conversations with specific examples of how the other person can do things a little better, how can they progress, right? It's communicating efficiently is finding common ground and looking for win-win situations. Leadership is the opposite of being selfish, right? And I think that above all, this is something that I talk about a lot is, leadership is connecting with people at their highest

level, right? So knowing that you can elevate each other through a conversation and creating that connection that will put the conversation and put the relationship on a very different level. I think that one of the best skills that a leader can have is to be able not only to communicate efficiently and effectively but also to be able to connect with people in a different way.

Absolutely, I love that. I always say as a big time lover of the Wizard of Oz, I always tell my teens that I've led that my job is to keep you guys on the Yellow Brick Road and keep the Yellow Brick Road clean and pave the way forward for you. Yeah, I love your comments on leadership because it is communication and we all communicate differently and we're from different backgrounds and different cultures and it means different things to different people and I appreciate you sharing that.

So from your perspective, can you share the finding moment in your leadership journey and what you learned from it? Yes, there are many defining moments in one's careers, right? It's,

leadership is really a journey. So it's hard to pinpoint one specific moment, but if I had to choose that one turning point where I was pushed to make a very difficult and scary decision was a little bit of the background story was I had a CEO who was had a very different leadership style than mine. Let's just say that and I was in charge of a specific region and he decides to show up at my region without much notice and the region was rather large and he demanded he wanted every single

person in our leadership team to be part of this specific meeting. So I scramble to A, make sure that all my properties were covered, that all the operations were going to continue to run smoothly. This was I was in charge of several departments in various hotels and you can just take off, right? There has to be someone there who's ready to make decisions and well, I had to pull everyone out. So with every effort of getting the team out to this one particular location or this meeting was

going to happen. No agenda was really shared. So we didn't really know what was expected from us or what was to be expected from that meeting. So I gather all my resources, I put a plan together, get the team out there and as we are sitting in the in the meeting, I start being up on this vibe that is my CEO just being upset at the team, being a rude to the team, like very aggressive, very aggressive and I talk, I share the story in one of the books that I collaborated in and

there's the details there. I don't want to bore everyone on the other side, but here's the thing, it was something that I did not want to be associated with. At the end of the day, that team was my responsibility and putting them, I felt like I was putting them through this nonsense completely a necessary type of situation, right? We were the highest revenue generating region in the country. We had incredible results. We had super high customer service scores.

We had the lowest turnover rate in the country. So there were all these positive things and in working with other of the regionals in the organization, I knew that my region was always being used as an example. So I was like, what is going on here? Like where is all this meanness coming from, right? And again, like, we're all adults here. I don't want to put my team through this. I don't want to be associated to this. And it took a lot of courage to end that meeting with

a positive mindset, right? And not simply say, let's go, walk away and you can't do that. I can't drag people with me. But on the other hand, I could not accept my team having to go through that. And I'll give you a quick example. He was saying things like, you will never be good enough, you will never do this, you will never do that. You will never own this. Your mother should be ashamed, crazy talk. And this was to every single leader in the room. It wasn't just

pointed at one person. No. So we leave the meeting. You could hear a pin drop. It was terrifying. We leave the meeting. And obviously we won't go from the meeting space back to our office. The office was at the back of the house at the hotel. And this entire time, you have to go across,

like two different towers, a specific gaming floor, then another gaming floor. And it's like, you can't hide. Right. And I have all my leadership team gloomy walking through the floor. And I noticed that as they left that meeting room, they put on their happy face because they knew that guest service was way more important than anything else that happened in that room. So by the time we get to the office, I was like scrumbling in my head, what do I do to pull them out of this funk?

This is terrible. They should have never been a part of this. So I decided to have them write down, take the time, write down how these meeting made you feel, right? The behavior of this particular person focusing on the behavior, not so much on the person. How did that make you feel? And they wrote in a piece of paper. And then we all stood around, we had a huge shredder. And I asked each one of them to read out loud what was on the paper.

One by one. And then just shred it. And that was leaving things in the past. And knowing that we were there to operate in our highest performing way. We were there to be a team. We were there to serve the guest. Yari, yari, yara, all those beautiful things. But on my drive home, I started processing what I was feeling based on that particular situation that had happened. And I started thinking, I just,

I can't be associated with this. I cannot be face to this. I cannot be responsible for this. And I know in control of how this person will feel. And the reality is that in any organization, the heads of the organization are the people that are going to drive the culture. And in a toxic environment, what can you expect from that culture? What can you expect the people below them will do? How are they going to react? How are they going to behave? So that was a pivotal moment for me when I

thought, you know what? I can't do this. I love my industry. I love my people. But I am going to start flying solo. I'm going to make my own rules. I'm not going to associate myself with this kind of behavior anymore. This is not leadership. This is just BS for lack of better terms. So I think

that that was a pivotal moment for me to say, I have the courage I can do this. And then from that day forward is when I formed my, my own company and I decided to start touching operations in a very different way and being in control of not only the end result, but also what is that journey going to look like? I'm not going to beat you up for not making your numbers, which at the end of the day,

we were making our numbers, right? But the journey is as important as the outcome. So that that was it. That's one of the stories. I love it. I love the shredding of the paper. I'd be like, that's brilliant. Because I know I've come across similar situation. I'm like, how many use that next time? So that's a great, great idea. And I love your attitude with this, which being aware and mindful and having a high

emotional intelligence and being knowing your people and how to respond to them. Because ultimately, like you said, we are responsible for the people and the culture that of our people is super informed. Because if they don't like to come to work and they're scared about their boss or the energy that he's bringing or they disagree, it's only a matter of time before it breaks the team or people quit and the morale goes down and the profitability goes down. So it's amazing that you notice that,

which leads me to my next question. Kind of similar where we were going, what role do you think emotional intelligence plays in the leadership approach? That's a very good question. It's a two-way road, right? It's critical that not only leaders have a high emotional intelligence level, which by the way, something that you can learn EQ is definitely something that you can develop. So anyone who

feels like they need a little push on that, I highly recommend that you take a course, take a class, hire a coach, do what you need to do because you put you on a different level. But also it's on the other side, right? So EQ is all about mindset. It's about understanding that I may not be in control of a specific situation, but I am most definitely in control of the way I feel and the way I react against that situation. And then on the other hand is putting yourself in the shoes of a person

that is in front of you. If you're about to have that difficult conversation, how can you craft? How can you prepare for that conversation so that A, you're empathetic of what's going on on the other side? You understand that person's world. Sometimes, you know, leaders will jump into conclusions with really knowing what that person's world looks like. And by world, I mean, what are the resources, what are their challenges on a daily basis? What are those things that they're lacking?

Right? And obviously having social skills, being self-motivated, being able to motivate others in difficult times, right? Keeping in mind the motivations of others too, right? How can I get to you? Being empathetic, being self-aware, what are the things that I am doing that are triggering things on the other person's soul? And that's why they're reacting that way, right? It's not walking away from a conversation. It's being prepared for that conversation, right? It's self-regulating when

you're in front of someone who's screaming at you. We see this in a hospitality all the time. You have a guest who just arrived to check in at 10 o'clock at night at the front desk with three kids coming from the other side of the country. They've been traveling the entire day and your front desk agent says, "I am so sorry, but your room is not ready." And the person on the other side, the guest is

like, "Are you kidding me? It's 10 o'clock at night. I have three children that have been driving me nuts for the past six, seven, eight hours that we've been traveling. What do you mean my room is not ready? Or what do you mean my I don't get adjoining rooms? I have kids. They can't be on their own, right? So how does that front desk agent react to that situation? Being proactive, you can manage that

conversation or manage that communication in a different way. You may be able to be think creatively and find other solutions. So EQ is important in every level of the organization. I love it. And you know, it's, I love that you said you can learn it. You know, I'm a math and science girl. I studied engineering. So EQ wasn't at the top of my list. And I had to teach myself that in how to be aware of people's emotional feelings or their pressures or understanding their desk and what is giving

them a hard time and reversing onto them. So I think personally anybody who's managing people or leading people in teams, you're right. They need to learn it. They need to understand it and take a course because when you understand the motivation behind your people and what's driving them,

you're better able to lead teams. So knowing people from a personal level and a professional level, because if we understand that they have to pick up their kids at four o'clock in the afternoon, we can better understand what happens for them at the end of the day or whatever they have going on. If they have to drop their kids off in the morning or they have a sick family member. And when you're, you're more understanding of that to employees, they're more likely to go the other

direction for the company versus shutting off their computer or ignoring an email. I think it's goes both ways. Absolutely. And here's the thing Melissa, if there is one thing, there are many things that happened during 2020, many things, many scars that 2020 left. But then there are many other things

that we can take as learning experiences, right? And then on the other hand, many things that we were able to stop doing do less off because they weren't serving us as a video contributor as often organization, as human beings, as members of a family, as members of our community.

And there is one thing that I can say that COVID left is a higher degree of awareness when he comes to, I want to feel human. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, people want to feel human. So like you're saying, if you have a team member that needs to leave at four o'clock three days a week, how can we make this happen? There's always creative ways. And I always use this analogy. Once you stop holding

the world, you realize that the world continues to spin. So the same thing happens for your team member. Is there a creative way for us to provide a solution? Because at the end of the day, that person is going to become more engaged, that person is going to become more loyal to the brand, that person is going to want to go the extra mile without anyone asking them. So it's critical that we bring the human

back into the way that we do business. And EQ plays a huge role on that. Yep, I love that. And I think about my career journey, I very rarely in my career, if ever have had people ask me how I'm feeling or what's going on in my life. And it also wasn't until I had a child that people were like, oh,

maybe we should ask her how her kids doing. And so if you're out there and you are managing people, I challenge you to find out something you don't know about your employees because they could be struggling with the sick parent or sick child or dealing with things that are affecting their emotional, their emotional needs and their their their their brain space. And by being empathetic and understanding what's going on for them, they will repay, repay the favor down the way.

Absolutely. And here's a quick tip, if if I may, you have leaders that go from never asking those questions, right? Never, never bridging that gap between I am the boss, you're the team member. And as we move through this couple of years out of COVID where people seek to be seen or see, people seek to be understood in a different level, where people seek to connect, how do you move

that leader from there to bridging that gap, right? And there is a very quick tip that I can share with your audience, which is instead of going straight to asking the question, how is your kid or how is your father? Because you know that the father was going through some surgery and you don't know it from that team member, but you know it through someone else, right? So instead of perhaps starting with a question, if you want to get warmed up, I wait to do it is by simply mentioning it.

I hope your father is doing great. I hope your father is progressing. I hope your kid is growing healthy. Or I'm sure you're if you know about, I don't know, your kids about two years old, well, maybe you say something like, I hope your kid is not driving you crazy with the terrible tools, right? Yeah. But if you need to warm up to creating that bridge, that's a great and easy way to start. 100% that's a great example. So kind of keeping to this flow here, what advice do you have for leaders?

To see to what advice you have for leaders, seeking to drive positive change in their industry?

So if somebody is managing people and maybe profitability is down or morale is down or anything that the organization is focusing on, what advice do you have for them to drive some change? So I would say, and this may sound a little bit like a cliche, but I would say be the change. If you can remember those three words, you're good to go because you know what kind of change you're

seeking. Yeah. Be the change, right? We have to build cultures of trust when people trust each other, when team members know that there is a way that I can raise my hand, there is a way that I can disagree and we can disagree with a level of communication that is eloquent and is factual and is respectful, then you build trust, right? When people operate in environments of trust, you move the needle faster. You're not asking for specific checkpoints. You're definitely moving

faster. You trust that person is going to take this project to the finish line, right? Yeah. One thing that I will say is, never stop learning, right? Don't stop learning. If you want to drive positive change, ask your people what they're seeking, ask your team, what is it that we need? What makes us different from our competitor, from a human standpoint? Find that out. Speak with your colleagues. Everybody has networks. Speak with your colleagues and

find out how is that your guys are dealing with this or how are you doing this? Have you improved any of your non-traditional benefits? What does that look like? So don't stop learning. Be curious, right? The other thing that I would say is in order to drive positive change is believing people. How are them to do? If you're always the one who's behind everything, one of your team members, because you have a hard time letting go, because you enjoy your tasks so much. Here's the newsflash.

You're in a different role now. Let go. Teach your team, train them, provide them with the tools that they need, equip them to be successful and then empower them. Because empowering people will make them feel that they can believe in themselves. And when people believe in themselves, then there is so much more that they're going to do for the organization. So that is positive change. Moving from being strict, moving from not trusting that team members

can grow within their roles, right? To developing the people within. That's positive change. Be creative. Find roles that that meet their strengths know that people is not replaceable. Why do we have high turnover? It seems to be an epidemic, but here's the thing. We got to look in order. We have to see from an organizational standpoint, what are we doing that is driving people away? It's not just the money. It's not just the money, right? Be strategic.

Yeah, 100%. I agree with all that. One other thing that comes to mind too that you mentioned. A lot of times people correlate leaders with people that are managing people. So I'm a manager of X people or a director of EP. Even if you're not a leader of people, you're a leader of yourself at first. And you can influence organizations and change. And so if you go to the break room and everybody's complaining that you have to come in at five and you were leaving it for, be the catalyst and the

change to talk through a strategy with other people. Why is that such a big deal? What about this? And be a positive catalyst for solutions to problems that may happen, even if you're not managing people or yourself. Or maybe this is the year that you've decided that you're going to read more, get in shape and leading yourself and be a positive catalyst for change for yourself and being your own biggest cheerleaders is key as well. So a lot of times people say, "Oh, well, you know, you're

leading people." And I always say, not really, the way I see organizations is we're all supporting the cause. And we're doing it together. Whether it's an executive title or an admin title, we're all

on the same level, driving the same things and supporting each other. And I think when you build a culture like that that everybody's ideas and opinions are valued, then it creates safety for people to want to come forward to share their opinions, to share their feelings about whatever the company is working on. Absolutely. And you said a few very key points. Number one, it starts with you going to

the break room. Walk to the break room. Sit with them. Listening on those conversations. Leaders who manage their teams and their operations from behind a desk, they don't get to see what's out there. They don't get to see where we're failing, where the challenges are, what are people thinking? So going into that break room and being part of that conversation is absolutely critical.

And if anything, that could be the very easy first step, right? Another thing that you said that is very critical is allowing the team to know, to know that every single piece of the puzzle, every single one of them plays a specific role. Every piece of the puzzle makes the bigger picture. Absolutely. So even if you are a janitor, we still need you. And you are a very critical part of our operation, because what are you? You produce that the first experience, which is walking through those

building doors, right? So it's it's important for people to know that every single one of them is an important piece of the puzzle. And that is driving positive change. Yep. Absolutely. People, people follow, it's like children, you know, I have a one year old and I have to be careful what I say now. If I say something, he says something. And if you're leading people, you should be

a leader of people and do what you say, not do as I say, not as I do. So if you're leaving early and you're upset because your people are leaving early, you can appreciate that they may not respect you if you're, you know, driving down requirements of them, but doing the exact opposite. And, and being aware, like you said earlier, and, and understanding your, you know, emotional intelligence and how that plays into the organization. But I love what she said, getting face to face

with your people is key, key, key, you know, managing behind a desk is easy to do. Actually talking and getting out there to people is key to building relationships. Yeah. Switching gears a little bit. People that are looking to lead people are emerging in a leadership position and their long time goal is to be a manager of people. What advice can you give them to aspire to become a leader such as yourself? So emerging leaders are my favorite kind, and I'll tell you why, they are excited about

learning. They're excited about knowing what else do I need to do to get to that level, right? So the, the one thing that I'm going to say is everyone is a leader. Everyone is a leader. Personally, professionally in your community, every single human being is a leader. If you're impacting someone, unless you live in a bubble and you don't interact with absolutely everyone, you're more than likely impacting someone. Now, there's ways and ways. You can impact

someone in a positive way or you can impact someone in a negative way, right? So it is entirely up to you to decide what kind of leader you want to be. Do you want to be the one who's remembered because of the great things that you taught them? Or do you want to be the one that is remembered because you had to put your entire team in an office space, write down what they were feeling and shred it? Right? Work hard, be present, put your phone down, connect with people, raise your hand,

ask questions. It's okay to ask questions. It's the only way that you're actually going to get to learn anything, right? Find clarity. You cannot have goals unless you're clear about what exactly it is that you need and want, right? Stay focused. Be prepared. Don't just show up, show up at your best self. When you're prepared, you perform better. Period, bottom line. That's that, right? I would say

follow your dreams. Yes, follow your dreams, but plan. I want you have a plan in place. Make sure you have a deadline and you know what resources you need and then take action and then do temperature checks or checkpoints where you know how am I gauging? Where am I going? Am I winning? Am I losing? What's going on? Right? Another thing I would say is never let anyone alter your moral compass. You've there is something or a situation that you're in that you feel this just doesn't feel right.

What go away? What go away? You don't have to be in that situation, right? And if I can encompass all the above into one description, be a unicorn. Be a unicorn. Be that unicorn leader that everyone wants to hire the one that has a little bit of knowledge on many things and if they don't have that knowledge, you're going to research it. But then you know several things that are very specific, right? You are a beacon in that particular area. Understand that,

showing up and showing up in your best self and showing up to work early or being prepared. All those things that I just mentioned, that makes the the explanation of what a unicorn employee is. That's who you want to be. You want to be the unicorn leader. So there is no doubt and your people love you and you're the people that you report to love you and you're invited to

that table. And if you're not invited, you are confident enough to pull up a chair, right? And if the door's not there, you will work on, you know, having your tools to create that door and eventually the door opens to the other side. So be a unicorn. I love that. And one other thing I think of is be genuine in when you're asking questions. People can tell that when you're robotically going through things or, you know, if you're asking them, how is your weekend and they

get halfway through their sense and then you're telling them about your weekend. Let them finish their thought. Ask a question to understand. Oh, wow. How was that, you know, how was that movie? You know, my kids mentioned they wanted to see it. What did you like about it and asking to genuinely understand not because you're trying to check a box today that you talked to your employees about how the weather

was or, you know, how the weekend was, people can sense that. They can sense that you don't gen you and we care what they say if you're cutting them off in halfway through the sentence to get your points across. Absolutely. It's all about listening with with intentionality, right? I'm asking how was your weekend because I really want to know if I'm just checking a box, yes, they'll read through it. But listen with intent. How does that information will be useful as you move forward?

You know, sometimes I do this when I can tell people aren't listening to me. I ask this question, what do you think about what I said and see if they can remember what actually came out of my mouth? And I've found in multiple situations, most people cannot recurgitate much of what I said if they're not listening, right? So trust and verify, right? If they're actually listening. I know we're getting closer to the half an hour. Any final thoughts or anything you want our users to

know? Are listeners not users, I guess? I think that something that is probably common knowledge to most because we see a trend, we've seen a movement. But a good reminder, if you already know this and if not, something new that you can pick up, which is the world is huge. There is room for everyone. People have different tastes, people want different things. There is space for everyone. So there is so much more that we can do through collaboration than there is when we do things individually.

So just go for it and lean in and find ways to collaborate with people, to connect with people and to bring the human back into the way that we do business. Well said, well said, find your tribe and respect the others through your journey, right? I want to thank you so much for making time today. I know you're a busy, busy woman and I adore and appreciate all you have said and reach out to Michelle Clan. She's a rock star, leadership

and performance coach. I absolutely recommend her and I hope to chat with you again soon. Thanks again for making time. Thank you so much Melissa. Thanks everyone for being on the other side. You've been listening to the Executive Connect podcast. If you have questions or ideas on how to bring leadership to the next level, email us at executiveconnectpodcast@gmail.com. And don't forget to subscribe so you can catch every new episode. Until next time.