Motherhood and Executive Leadership: Gender Roles

I don't want to totally change the subject, but when's the last time we heard anybody say, "Oh, he's a working dad." People always say, "Oh, well, she's a working mom. She's probably going to have to leave it for her, and then be back online later." If I could coach my younger self, I think it would be to just be all in at that moment in time, and showing up for my family with my whole self.

In fact, we had a joke. I said, "What would you do differently looking back at your life?" And he said, "I want to work more." So I mean, that's a pretty extreme. Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast. Today, we're going to talk about being a mother and an executive leader. I have my three friends, Jenny, Mal and Michelle, to share some of their stories and insights about being an executive and a leader. Welcome, ladies. Jenny, I want to start with you.

I want to, for you to share with our guests today, a little bit about your journey as a mother, executive, and leader. So I started having children when I was in my mid-30s until my early 40s. And by then, in my mid-30s, I was already working in-house for John Deere for several years. And so, at that point, I had this established career. I had a structure that really worked well for starting my journey as a mother.

Given that you've had that big changes from 30s to 40s, Michelle, can you share a little bit about how you were able to balance motherhood? And how did you get into your childhoods motherhood and responsibilities as an executive? Sure. Well, similar to Jenny, I was in my 30s when I met my now husband. And so I was already a young executive. So that kind of came first in my life. And I was very upfront about how I felt about my career and the important role it took for fulfilling my life.

And we started speaking about marriage and the idea of children, it was a point that we decided he would be the stay-at-home dad. Should we go down that route? So once we moved away from our family, my son was only eight, and my daughter was four, and my husband began that chapter of his career as the stay-at-home dad. So without him and without that support for me personally, I would have had a really difficult time doing it. So I'm very fortunate that way.

Absolutely. Support is key to juggling work in life. I want to talk a little bit about how you're able to juggle your children and your demanding job traveling. So what are some challenges you have had to face in a role as an executive and a mother while traveling for your job? Well, first of all, I started my mother journey a lot earlier. I had my first child at 25, so I didn't really have a lot of choices at that age.

You don't really get to call the shots when you're really starting out in that kind of role. But to answer your question, it's a lot of guilt, honestly. It's a lot of support around me, but there's definitely times of just sort of managing that guilt, but also kind of my children seeing the things that I get to do. And just recently I went to Dubai and my kids were like, "That is so cool."

And I really want to be an example for them, both the boys and the girls. These are the things that you can do. And I also want them to see, like, you want a nice life, this is what it takes. And so they see me working hard. And yes, there is that guilt sometimes. Sometimes I miss things because I'm traveling. And I think that they see the trade-off, and I try to be really present when I am here, so that it's not like just like, "Oh, mom's working all the time."

I mean, believe me, there are some times like that this past weekend was one of them. But it is a trade-off for them and for me. And, you know, it's just a little bit of give and take, I think. I love that. I think you made a really good, really good nugget there is hard work. And to be a role model for our kids and to teach them what it takes to get where they need to go.

So like you mentioned, hard work is key. And there's balances. And sometimes you're going to miss things. And sometimes you're going to be there for things. But no matter what you're always there for them. And I think that says a lot about you as a mother and a leader. And so kind of pivoting a little bit, Jenny, I want to talk a little bit about, I know John Deere is a big company.

There's lots of big decisions that happen at large companies. How do you approach decision-making and problem solving in your home versus the workplace? That's a really good question. So I was at John Deere for most of the time when I was having children, I left during COVID. Now I'm at a global tech firm. It's quite a bit smaller. But my travel schedule has continued to be pretty intense like Melody. So there's domestic travel. There's a lot of international travel.

And I think that I've been doing that since they were born. And I think that in terms of decision making. I think travel is one of those areas where you have to think about what. And the question is, in terms of being home, being present versus when you really need to make that trip because some of these trips are technically optional. Like it's, it's a good thing to do.

I don't really need it there, but lately I've been thinking about how it's important to sit down and go through and put the family time on the calendar. Make sure that the things that we need to do in terms of family vacations are on there first. And then how, how do I prioritize what I need to do for work?

I got this idea when I saw some Instagram ad. I love buying things off Instagram. I'm going to do like a whole podcast just on what, you know, how I live my life. This Instagram shows me all the cool things I can do and improve my life with. But one of them is called the big ass calendar. And it fills the wall and it has it came as shall you know, it has like 365 days. And so I got that right off the bat in December for this year. And I put it up.

It's on my over here by my dining room table. And the kids are fascinated by this. And this is a way that I was able to be very intentional this year about trips and go in and make sure like the kids birthdays are on there. And then I started planning the kids birthdays are on there, you know, everything that, you know, soccer games and whatnot so that, you know, I can be more thoughtful about travel for work.

So, and think you're asking about like decision making and think that that itself in terms of what do I know, the volume from work and how does that translate at home. I think that when you're in a law firm like I was before I went in house to John Deere, people are coming to you for advice and you're building by the hour. And so you it's it's very transactional and people want that that advice and when you're in house, you're just there.

And people are not always coming to you for the advice you're in a role where you're working side by side with the business and you're being proactive about coming to them and you're saying, hey, I saw something. And this is what I think you should be considering here's how I think it might inform what actions you take or your timeline and you're telling them the impact.

And so what I've learned is that decision making in larger organizations versus, you know, a typical law firm client relationship is it's very diffuse. But there's not a lot of like direct push the button make it happen in a large organization or even a small organization. And so you have to learn that you don't tell people what to do and then they just do it. And so you have to come about decisions in a much more indirect way and there's a book I love is called a blocity.

And it talks about most things happen in a bleak way and that I think translates a lot at home to, you know, where you think, you know, because you have this authority figure as a parent. And it may be very authoritative as a person that the children are going to say, okay, yeah, that makes sense. I'm going to do that. Right. And then getting them where they need to be often happens in a very indirect way.

So, so I think the idea that you expect all this how much mental energy and emotional energy energy is going to take both at work doing that all day and then come in Michelle, you know, you may have some comments on this. So it's just not something that that I realize and I think sometimes I have to stop and own that, okay, I'm tired because this is, this is so much harder than I thought it would ever be. And it's again, same, you know, being home and running a household.

And I'm not just learning you make all these decisions rather independently. And, and now it's just not the case things don't get done independently at all. I was just going to give Jenny Kudos because my life is so different than having everything planned on a calendar. And I was like, well, that was my Nirvana state years and years ago before kids, but I am, I am much more of the moment of the week of the hour.

And I don't necessarily choose to be that way. It's just what life has taught me the last couple years and thrown lots of curve balls. And I just have to just kind of figure out, okay, how are we going to get through this week or how are we going to get through this day. So love that you can start planning on when you plan the birthdays. I love that. But unfortunately, I'm not like, I'm not able to be like that at all. So Kudos to you, Jenny.

I follow it. So in fact, I'm late, planning my one son's birthday. So you just reminded me, I got to send in some text messages. The app for this there though, you know, something you said and I kind of started to laugh and I wasn't laughing at you. I was actually thinking of something that happened with my son as you were saying, you know, what, what you do at work sometimes sometimes doesn't necessarily translate to what you do at home.

I'm an analyst and so a lot of times I may overthink things and I'm trying to solve for things and the kids may come to me and all they want is for me to listen, but I want to fix or I want to give them my insights and my son was talking to me about something and I was giving him my advice. And he was like, mom, stick to being a tech analyst.

Okay. And it was actually something about nutrition because he's a baseball player and whatever and turns out like three months later he came back to me and he was like, coach wants to meet me to eat three peanut butter and jelly sandwiches of a week or a day. And I was like, that's exactly what I told you. You know, I don't want me to be right, but you know, he's like stick to doing what you do, you know, don't bring that home with you.

Yeah, that's all great points. I think a lot of times I get asked as a mom, how do you prioritize self care? And I know a lot of times women ask me, like, how do I do I have any tips on how I prioritize my own health as well as the health of my children as well as the health of my team.

So I think just for everyone, maybe one at a time, just do you have any self care tips and tricks or habits that you incorporate into your day to day week to week that you could share with our listeners that help you stay. You know, at your best, resilient at your peak. Anyone want to go first, Michelle? You want to go first? I will say I'm not the best at that. And that's okay. You know, I give myself grace. I kind of, you know, do New Year's resolutions.

I feel like every month of what I'm going to do better. For me, it's looking forward to a beach vacation of just sitting in the sand, even just for a few days and having a glass of wine and tuning the world out. So that's my repair and I am good now about listening to my body and when I need that and giving myself permission to do that.

And then, you know, I feel like I'm actually really enjoying it is key and being mindful of how your body is telling you it's time. It's time. I've been working really hard as time to take a break. So I love that. Mel, any other from your perspective, any tips for the listeners? No, I kind of, I go through cycles where sometimes I'm just really on it. I definitely prioritize like exercise, eating, right, doing all the things.

My whoop, which tells me my sleep and all the things. And so I do pay attention to that. And so if I see that like my recovery is low, I'm like, I'm just going to say no to a few things. A few more things. I've gotten better saying no to things where I know that like it's because I have the data. I'm like, I'm not going out this weekend or I'm not having that second glass of wine or I'm going to sleep in a little bit tomorrow.

Because I know that I'm useless if I don't. And if I'm, if I don't feel well, I'm not a good mom. I'm not going to work. I'm not good at anything. So sometimes it's a really hard thing to do because you know, then I feel stressed because I'm behind or I let somebody down because I didn't drop to something or whatever.

But it just sometimes you just have to do it. But like I said, I, you know, sometimes I go in cycles where like I'm on it and I wake up and I make my bed and then I go and I do the green shake and I go for a walk in some days. I'm like, none of it. So I think Michelle had a really good point. I just have to give you some grace and do the best you can some days. Yep, absolutely. Jenny any any thoughts? I have a lot of thoughts on this.

My mom was always busy. She was taking care of a lot of sick people when I was growing up, almost like a single parent. As my dad worked a lot and I never saw her stop and take care of herself. She, she dressed well and she, she took care of herself and in those kinds of ways. That was important in the culture that I was raised in, but, but in terms of mental and emotional health.

I feel like she definitely sacrificed that. And in fact, when I had, after I had my fourth child, she passed away from a rare form of dementia that affects your executive functioning. And so it was almost like for those years when she was diagnosed leading up to her passing, she was forced to let other people take care of her. And, and moved from being the matriarch and caregiver to being, you know, almost like a, um, taking care of.

So that was a big wake up call for me. I don't know that I would have really prioritized self care until that point. And I realized that I had to figure it out for myself. I got really into atomic habits, like a lot of people. And it really made sense to me and starting from a place of who do I want to be. And, and what is my identity and then building and stacking habits around it.

And so I'm, I'm working on creating kind of an evening ritual habit, but I have my morning one down where when everyone's asleep. And I do like to go to bed early. So that that's really key is I've always liked to go to bed early, um, waking up early. And that is my time. And I do like little things. I do a meditation from the choper app every morning. It's 10 minutes. If I don't do it, you know, things go off track very quickly for me.

And I do reading random pages out of a book. I do writing. Sometimes I jump on planning my day. And then I've stumbled into a lot of other like forms of self care after the fact and realized, hey, so I took a vacation last year. I went to Greece with a couple of friends. It's the first time I take in a vacation independent of a work trip, maybe ever. And just being there in that environment.

And then I just, you know, I think it's the culture of, yeah, like not everything's perfect, but that's okay. Right. And just being friendly and laid back and truly having a relaxing vacation that I didn't over schedule. And then there's some other, you know, stressful work event. It was kind of stumbling into like I need to do this. Like what Michelle was saying. I'm, I need to recognize the signs of when I just need that time where I have no demands on me from anyone else.

And I just can be a human being. So I still working on that piece of it of recognizing what is the right cadence and what form does that take because it is so personal to each of us and depends on our family depends on our job.

And it's, it's, it's, and it's hard because whereas I see my 14 year old daughter, this is, it's not self care. It's just life. It's expected. They've already learned this next generation that this is critical. This isn't like a, you know, being selfish. This isn't superfluous.

It's just critical that they have to prioritize themselves. And I'm so proud to see that that's the new normal, right. It gives me a lot of hope in this generation because for my, I feel like my parents generation. I don't know if you agree. It was seen completely the opposite that it was selfish that you were, you know, hurting your family. I mean, that's it. We, we talk about, have we come far enough that that's a pretty big change in a, in a generation or so. What do y'all think about that?

I'm not interested because I still see leaders who criticize like not necessarily our generation, but maybe, you know, like the 20 some things for being selfish because they don't answer their emails after six or, or five for that matter, you know.

I've a daughter who's 26 and she's, you know, she worries about stuff like that. Like she's like, if you're not on 24/7, are they going to be, are people going to be upset because there are still people who think that if you're not working all the time, the way I think most of us did. It's going to be looked at as you're, you know, you're lazy or if you're, if you do draw those boundaries that it's, you know, you might get passed up by the person who's willing to work harder.

I mean, you know, especially you come from a legal background. It's, it's hours you put in. I mean, there is still like some places where that's the norm.

I actually recently had dinner with a woman who worked for me several years ago and I sometimes fear that I like damaged all the people who worked for me because I would send them emails at like two o'clock in the morning, not because I wanted them to work at two o'clock in the morning, but just because that's what worked for me because I would go home and take care of my children.

And then I would go back to work and she is just incredible at managing her time and her two children and how is this great boundaries and has figured out this like incredible light for herself. And I was so proud of her for doing that because I don't know that I modeled that for her that well and I do think that this generation is really good at at drawing those boundaries, but I think that leadership also has to be accepting of it and not all leadership is.

And I think as as women as moms and also manage page engine to it too and be like, yeah, I need to, I need to make that happen for them, which I don't want to like totally change subject, but like when's the last time you heard anybody say, oh, he's a working dad. Yeah, people obviously like, well, she's a working mom. She's probably not have to leave it five and then be back online later.

And I think that's what it's like working dad's like, my husband never says like, well, I'm a working dad. So I might be offline from five to seven and then I'll see you guys back on at eight. Why are we working moms, but they're not working dads. Or that they feel guilty about taking a meeting at night or going on a trip. I mean, I never experienced that.

You know, and often I was the lone woman traveling with a lot of dudes and never, you know, some of them be like, yeah, I just don't call home when I'm traveling and everybody like just gets that. Yeah, I mean, I'm very fortunate. My boss is wife works. And so he's super understanding of what it takes to raise a family and have a job, but not all people have that benefit.

I think you made a really good point. Mal is how you integrate like I like the word integrate. I don't everybody always ask me light work life balance like, you know, I travel for work that week. I'm off balance family wise. I'm back. I'm home. I'm more balanced on the family side. And I think you made a really good point is, you know, you had things to take care of after five you get back on the evening and that's what works for you.

And I think one thing that you pointed out is sharing that with your staff saying, hey, like because I send you an email at two o'clock in the morning, I don't expect you to reply. I need to get it off my mind and down the road because that's how I work. And I think, you know, you all kind of touched on it a bit. I think the world it has shifted a lot. I would totally agree the job have shifted people are more vocal about.

I want to work from home. I need to leave it five to get my kids and I would say like Jenny, you mentioned like my parents were exactly that they worked hard. They put themselves aside and if and when they had time, then they would do stuff for them. And, you know, my sibling and I were very busy kids and so they can have a ton of time right because we've removed their partners here and partners there.

And so I guess another question for all three of you for, you know, women that are aspiring to be managers, leaders, executives and they have children. What advice would each of you share with them on a kind of that right up in their career that maybe something you didn't do or something you wish you what I've done in the past. Michelle, you want to go first? Sure.

Earlier in my career when I was a young mom, I thought that as long as I was sitting on the playroom floor and, you know, interacting with them with my laptop on my lap and still writing emails and editing documents etc.

That that counted and that was like, oh wow, look at me. I'm multitasking. I'm able to do both things, but I actually find as my children get older that they're calling me out on that and they'd rather have me be all in and present with them for 10 minute sitting at the dinner table or, you know, playing a card game.

And then to go into my office or wherever it is and have that final time getting my work done. So if I could coach my younger self, I think it would be to just be all in at that moment in time and showing up for my family with my whole self and not trying to do it all at the same time.

At 1000% Michelle, it's it's at five or 10 minutes of focus time and I didn't know that right off the bat. I actually had a therapist say, you know, it really isn't like you have to take him to the park or Disneyland.

You know, or Starbucks, I do these little mommy missions, secret mommy missions and they're not supposed to tell each other what we do and they all do immediately and creates a lot of drama, but I'll take them, you know, with me to Starbucks and roll, you know, chat and then maybe read a book or something.

And they get just one on one time, but it doesn't even have to be that big of an event. It could just be five minutes. And I think that what I would say is along the lines of what you're saying, Michelle, that I wish I would have owned it sooner.

And in a very more realistic way, I was talking to my dad, I was talking about the guilt that I felt that my oldest child who was young at that point was growing up and I wasn't around because I was traveling so much for my job and he said, nobody told you that you wouldn't have to sacrifice. And I was like, you know, he was working for me kind of in 60 days a year. And so for him, it was like, this is what I'm going to do. I am not going to apologize for it.

And he's been very successful as a result of his discipline. And who told you that you wouldn't have the sacrifice. And in fact, we had a joke. I said, what would you do differently looking back in your life? And he said, I would have worked more. So I mean, that's a pretty extreme situation, but it's funny because we had that conversation. And I went down. I remember distinctly going on the showroom floor.

And then to the John Deere headquarters, it's an incredible space. And it has this like multi-story showroom when you walk in and they bring in equipment from different, you know, decades and sizes. And there was a perception there and some of the vice presidents were milling around. And I started talking to one of them in a group.

And you know, the thing is, is like, you tell yourself, oh, I would be CEO someday. I would want to do that. I could do that. He's like, but as I get older, I realize, one, I might not even be capable of that. Would I want to travel 300 days out of the year? Right? And with the kids that I have. And I was just like, white bolts were going off. I was like, wow, like here's a guy who's fairy, like a vice president.

And there's like two of them, you know, it's a very small group of people at this company. And he's sharing that he realizes that this isn't his journey and that he wouldn't be prepared to sacrifice. And I've been the ages of his kids and his family structure. And it's a realistic look. And I've had younger people say, well, I want to have this position. I want to have that position.

And what it goes back to is the next generation really prepared for what you have to do and how much you have to work and the time you have to put in how strategic you have to be to have a senior leadership position in a company. And anybody goes into it realistically and really owns what it takes and says, I am going to sacrifice. And my kids are going to sacrifice for me to do this, but it's important. And I'm going to do it.

And then, you know, let the chips fall where they may and they're they're going to be consequences, but I'm going to own that and I feel like that's something I wish I had done a little sooner in my career to realize that that's just the reality of the situation. And then it's okay. And I don't have to apologize for it. And everybody in the family has has bought into it and and we're figuring out a way to make it work for us.

I love that. We have these family chats and you mentioned just, you know, the family has to be bought into that mom has to travel. How do you feel about that? And if there's resistance, I know in my house, there is resistance with my travel schedule.

And so a lot of times what I have done and I love the new technology these days, like FaceTime wasn't around when my parents were parenting. So if my parents were gone, they were gone. And it was a phone call. And I now when there is resistance, I'm able to FaceTime the kids and talks about their school day.

Still that touch, although I'm not in front of them or touching them, I am talking to them about their day. I am engaging them. My two year olds, you know, he is more hesitant to get on FaceTime. He's irritated. So I've had to, you know, not video with him, but talk to him. And so there's ways, right?

There's ways to juggle if it works for the family, but like you mentioned, Jenny, getting everybody's buy in and talking about it as a family, I think helps with some of those pressures in the house. Mel, any thoughts from you? Yeah, I mean, I think like expecting more equality in the home is OK. And women have always just been taught to be the mom, be the caretaker, be the homemaker, we're supposed to be everything.

And it's OK to say we need to share responsibilities in this home. And that doesn't mean like I want you to vacuum or I want you to do one specific thing. You know, it's just we need to share responsibilities and that includes the children. And it shouldn't all fall on mom always. I mean, there are times when our kids just want mom and that's just biological. It's just a fact. It's just, you know, and same we want you know to be there for them.

But I am seeing a shift in the way that families engage with each other in kind of this next generation where husbands are more involved in the home in cooking dinner. I just think it's it's OK to expect. And the relationships that from what I've seen from the women reported to me over the years who do expect that from their relationships those relationships tend to be a lot healthier than the ones where it isn't equal and there's resentment.

Yeah, absolutely. Well said, I think that's a really another really great point is asking for help to a lot of times is women. We are not good. It's saying we need help in this area work or home. And we take on this giant burden and then get irritable with our managers, our spouses, our partners. And so I absolutely agree. I think it's asking for help and then letting somebody help.

I know myself a lot of times with what's my husband I have to the way I do it is very different than the way he folds things and so my version of a full good job could be very different than his and a ball. I think it's like let it go is it worth you know it's folded it's his way it's put away. It's also to let others help and then let them do the way that it works for them.

It's difficult sometimes, right? I also, you know, letting the kids have some responsibility and that's always been a struggle for me because I'm not a helicopter mom, but I think maybe it's part of it that I am gone a lot. I want to be the mom when I'm home. And so I will do stuff like do their laundry and pick up their things and you know I want to like do those mom things when I am home.

But like then I'm like what am I doing? Actually one of my girlfriends was like you're not raising good husbands if you're doing all that for them. Like teach them to pick up their own stuff because my issue is three girls and she's like my girls don't want to marry someone who's used to having their mommy pick up after them.

And I was like, oh good point. Okay. So now I'm like you take out the trash, you make your bed, you put away the towels. You know like I want them to be trained to be good husbands who participate in their portion. And then you get in their portion of the household. Doesn't that so much harder to work with them to teach them to do it themselves. I mean you like at least it work. You can assign a task. You can delegate and they'll maybe they won't do it.

I would think that's why I would think they'll pretend like they'll accept that and with kids it's like no. That it's it's it's again it's for me it's an issue of energy management. There's a great leader in the space Aaron Reeves who talks about this. I saw a keynote in the fall and she talked about, you know, it's really hard because as women our knows are not accepted.

The same way that other people's are. And so you have this like equation in your head of how much energy am I going to spend trying to get you know either just do it myself or get someone to do it. A child or you know somebody at work. And then sometimes it's just easier and less energy just to do it so that that's hard to resist that. A lure of just doing it and then you do it the way that you want to do it. So I don't know if you have any advice about that.

It's a really good point. I love that you brought that up. Mel because in our house everybody is assigned a job a duty and that is their job and their duty and I think the one thing is. Initially there's resistance. You know, why do we have to do this and why do we have to do that. But they're learning to take care of themselves. So as girls are learning how to do things that they didn't know to take care of themselves to share in responsibility.

I think the other side of it as they get older and they go to the workforce somebody is not going to do their job or do their laundry or take out their trash. They're going to have to learn how to you know do these tasks. So if they're it's trained now into them and it's in green into them.

We can guide them along this journey of how they do things they become like you mentioned better husbands better wives better employees and they're making mistakes in the comfort of our home and and we're able to guide them and teach them here because.

You know I have heard through the pandemic a lot of friends of mine children have come home after during the pandemic they weren't able to take care of themselves so they move back into the house for different reasons but when you teach them how to take care and take responsibility young it becomes second nature as they get older. So I love that you brought that up Michelle any other thoughts.

Just playing off of what Jenny said I think that in my heart of hearts and I'm and you probably feel the same way we know that we do it the best if nobody could do it as good as we can. However, you know we can't strive for perfectionism we have to somewhat lower the bar and we have to you know challenge ourselves to let others help and I think that's true of both in the workforce and at home.

I love it so just kind of one closing question for everyone just looking ahead for the future for women moms leaders maybe each of your perspectives about you know your hopes for other moms and women in the future either personally or professionally. Melody want to go first. Sure I have to think for a second but yeah well Michelle you said you've had some good show that you go first because I have to think that through a little bit.

Sure I I would say go for it you know try to have it all enjoy the journey. You know don't give up be patient be positive I think that when we were speaking about self care I think that one thing I was thinking about and that I encourage people to do is really take time each day each week to give gratitude for all the things that you do have and how fortunate we are to you know have our health or have income or have a roof over our heads.

Food on the table etc when you put it in the grand context of everything going on we are very fortunate and we should be very grateful and it it kind of helps just put things in perspective for me so I'd say young moms keep that in mind but you know go for it. Jenny want to go next. I think just really like kind of whether you want to be a mom or you don't and I think there's people can make that choice.

Just kind of setting that intention for your life and being okay with with where you want to go and and. Deciding your path not letting society or your parents or anybody else decide your path really kind of setting exactly your intention for what you want your partner to be what you want your life to be like what you want your job to be like how you want your days to feel and going after that and whether it's how society thinks you should be or how you think you should be or.

What feels right for you I think just really kind of setting that for yourself and following that path is what I would say to any woman going into work force motherhood not motherhood partnership whatever that looks like for you and that's what I would want for any young woman today. Jenny and two thoughts I have one that's kind of practical in nature and then I have more of like a macro.

The practical advice I would have is to figure out as quickly as you can what works for you not not just what advice people have that that work for them but what works for you and then automate as much as you can of that so for example.

You know when you figure out when you are in the best place in the day to do your most difficult work right if you're a morning person then then you've got to put boundaries around that time and and do that work and then when you know you have energy dips in the afternoon then you block that time for scheduling meetings are doing you know low.

Complexity tasks and so it's about what works for you and then just automating it you I have certain blocks in the day knowing where and you know my energy levels are and how to utilize that most effectively I can be a lot more productive owning my schedule then I can and just letting people fill it up with back to back meetings and there are days that I do the back to back meetings and I like there's record.

I apparently people try to break sometimes the light read 14 meetings today so can't you can always do it but you do it enough so you kind of protect again yourself that's that's a form of self care right and then automating it so that you're not. You know trying to do this ad hoc every day I think the macro issue the macro.

Advises something I learned in mediation actually and it works better in terms of parenting and it works better in the workplace no matter what level you're at and that's just going with more of improvisational yes and instead of in part of it is the job right isn't attorney like you're looking for problems your spotting issues and you can really fall in love with the problem and talk a lot about what not to do.

But in improvisation that's much more realistic about life and work right you don't get to like you know segment everything out and say you know this is going to be an issue and do this and do that it's more of making sure that you're going to flow with the business or with your kids it's like yes that's going on yes that's what you want to do and let's incorporate this you know kind of safeguard or let's do that.

Yes let's do that at you know 7 p.m. or do that for dinner you know it's just it's trying to go with the flow and and be improvisational and enjoy that ride rather than okay this is exactly how everything is going to work and I can balance motherhood and work and and this is how it's all going to you know this is how it's going to play out.

Yeah given yourself grace right like just grace on the process we're all having kids at different ages you know the older we get the more we know when you have kids younger you got to kind of make some mistakes along the way and you know in my forties now I'm like gosh I would have never done that in my 20s or managed you know kids that way so I think giving yourself grace and realize there's no right way to be a leader and there's no right way to be a mom we're all just doing it.

We're all just doing our best and working hard at whatever our passions are and sometimes we got to lean into being a better parent for a period of time and lean into being a better employee but I think the older we get the more tools we have in our toolbox and you know I think the one thing I've learned is just being a little bit vulnerable and telling people my kids home sick I'm going to have to juggle it but I'm here and I think the more I'm going to have a better job.

And I think the more that you're vulnerable as a leader at the right times right when you know you can be the more people will meet you there and say oh I get it no problem I've had a sick kid before I get what you're going through so I think just learning to be more vulnerable versus you know a lot of times the stigma that you know if you're a mom in executive that you're not going to be as good of an executive because you have

home responsibilities and I think I can't remember who said it I think the minute that I became a mom I felt like I became you know a better leader a better employee because I had to I had more constraints on my time I had to really get focus and I Jenny I'm definitely getting that calendar I love this calendar idea.

I need to be on Instagram more but I think you know I think Bernabre Brown says it right being vulnerable she talks a lot about it but vulnerability with boundaries right I think a lot of times I've been vulnerable when I shouldn't have and looking back I've probably needed to think about it before I was vulnerable. Any other does anybody have any other closing thoughts before we close or things that they want to share with our listeners.

First of all thank you three for being here I I love that you shared your time with our listeners and your experiences connects with these ladies their executives their moms they do all the things they have great tips and tricks. So thank you three for being here today and that's the executive connect podcast. Thank you very much.