Behind the Scenes: Insights Into Executive Hiring Trends

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Welcome to the Executive Connect Podcast, a show for the new generation of leaders. Join Melissa R. Skag as she speaks to a wide variety of guests that bring new insights into leadership, prosperity, and personal growth. While now it has all the answers, by building a community of open-minded and gauge leaders, we hope to give you the tools you need to help you find your own path to success. [MUSIC] Welcome to the Executive Connect Podcast.

I'm so excited to have my friend, Laurie Canapa here today to talk about jobs, the job industry, the market. Laurie, tell us a little bit about what you do. >> Great, it's so great to be, it's so great. When you get to connect with someone on a business level, on a personal level, and that's Melissa for me, for sure. My name is Laurie Canapa, I'm based here in Austin, Texas.

Started my career in public accounting and then morphed into a controller role in industry, and then stepped in the world into the world of executive search almost 18 years ago. I specialize in executive search that goes all the way through the C-level, specifically my niche is in accounting and finance. Stephen Douglas, who I work for, is a 40 year old brand. They started Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

I was their flagship employee two years ago, a little over two years ago, that they hired in Austin to expand their presence in Texas. In that time, we now cover Austin, San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston, and we've actually worked our way up to be in the top five for both executive, retain search and for contingency search in this market. So we're not function specific or I mean, we're function specific, we're not industry specific. So we cover all genres and we also have a national presence.

We cover over 25 different markets and even on accounting and finance. We also work in other verticals as well as information technology, supply chain, human resources, legal, and then we also have an interim resources group as well. >> Great, thank you for that Laurie. I'm excited to have you here today to talk about recruiting.

So from your perspective, what market trends have you observed that are significantly impacting recruiting of executives today? >> I'd say the biggest thing in the ongoing conversation is flexibility, right? So flexibility, I think in this world, are we talking about remote jobs, we're talking about hybrid, we're talking about onsite and which level of a role is embracing with which side?

I would say two years ago, if you dial back our remote jobs, the dynamic of those jobs has drastically changed. If you pulled up our sheet that said 100% remote jobs, there were a lot of sea level leadership jobs. That has changed and that was really out of necessity, right? So that has now changed, I think just because we no longer have that pandemic attached to it as well.

But I also think that companies have quickly realized for the most part that there is something to say for some type of face time and creating cohesive culture, some type of camaraderie, everybody kind of being on the same page, collectively in the Austin area or in Central Texas, I'd say everybody is embracing the hybrid. There are some that are going on side every day, but I'd say hybrid 3, 2, or 4, 1. I always advise companies that are kind of resistant to the hybrid.

I always look at flexibilities earned, like babysit them, try one day, see how that works for everybody, right? But the dynamic of those sea level roles, like I said, is changed. If you look at our remote roles now, there are more individual contributor roles, there are more plug-and-play roles like technical, SEC reporting, anything related to tax.

So I think if anything, I think candidates have to catch up a little bit on understanding that you can't just have that if you want to leadership, you have to choose. So I want to leadership position and be highly compensated or compensated what I think is fair for my skill set, or is being 100% remote more important to me. Because there's going to be a trade-off, there just is. And I'd say like set two years ago, that was totally different.

And if anything, I think employers are a little bit of head of kind of making that pivot. And I think candidates are a little bit behind on that when we talk to candidates. And I tell them, it's fine if you want to be 100% remote, but are you going to have that leadership sea level, high growth, opportunity of an impact position? Not so much. >> Yeah, I agree.

I think I'm wondering, like are there specific industries that are in, like is there a sector that has a heightened demand for top executives right now that you're recruiting for? >> I mean, I think it's, so if you can style it back to 2008, right? Where we cut across the board, like nobody was hiring, there was no PPP loan bailout, right? So companies were like trying to stay more cash-centric. So they were cutting from the top up and it wasn't industry-specific, it was across the board.

If you look now, it's definitely like I said, it depends on the industry, right? And there's going to be certain industries in 2024, just like 2023, that are going to be more married to interest rates, economy. So I think it really just depends on the industry and how that's flourishing. I'd say retail, banking, especially those consumer more facing positions tend to, it's an emotional role of coast depending on the market's going. Technology, it just depends on the vertical you're in.

I mean, I have one technology company here specifically. They've got a multibillion dollar evaluation and 65% profit margins. And then I have another one that's drastically struggling. So I wish there was more of a black market market answer except that.

But I mean, I would say if I look historically over the CFOs and CFOs I've placed over the last six months, they're everything from consumer products to, you know, it depends on where the position sits as well, like which companies are sitting in the cloud, which is technology driven. We just play, you know, we work in banking and financial institutions. We work in startup bank here in Austin. So I'd say it's a little bit over the map.

But again, me being in the central Texas market might be a little bit different than some other is the country. I'd say from an economic perspective, my office out of all of our 25 different off, 25 different locations has been by far the busiest, I would say. And I don't think it's because I'm so awesome. I mean, my team's awesome, but I mean, but I mean, I'm just saying, but, but I am saying, but I think it's because we are lucky to be in Texas.

There's more companies coming here than leaving here. I think that we create a lot of, you know, I think not just because companies know it's a, that's for a lot of reasons. I think cost of doing business regardless of all the things we hear about being more expensive. I mean, at the end of the day, we have no income tax global companies like this location, just purely because of our time zone and that silly, but really it is.

Because think about if you have a pack responsibilities and you've got people on the East and West coast, well, if you have someone right in the middle, that way it's not, you know, it's kind of somewhere in the meeting in between. So I think, you know, we still have a lot of people more companies people coming here than leaving here really, I mean, for the most part.

And then from hiring perspective, you know, I was just listening to, I love the editor of LinkedIn, LinkedIn 85% was 85% of people in 2024 are passively seeking a new role. That's up 27% from last year. Yeah. So when you talk about, and we're not talking about unemployed people, we're talking about employee people, which makes the market to long answer your short question incredibly tight. And I think everyone gets drawn into the, we hear riffs. We hear riffs. Yes, but look at those companies.

Those are the very large global public-traded companies that from my perspective, overhired and overpaid post-pandemic. There's a very, very large company that we all know in the social media space, multi-multipillion dollar company. When they came back from pandemic and people didn't want to come back to work, they were like, kind of almost in panic mode. Oh my gosh, we need people. So and people don't want to come back. So they don't know if we're ready to work yet.

They're still like this PTSD from the pandemic. So they were hiring and they were paying like 30% of our market. And that's across the board. So some of this is really level setting, but no one ever talks about that, right? It's just, it's the media pulling into the glimendoom, but it's really, it's a lot of its level setting. I mean, even just a point of reference here in Austin, in my role. Senior accountants is a simple example for competitive salary will make somewhere between 90 to 110.

And that's like a big four CPA, CPA candidate type. This particular company and some of their competitors, the large global public-traded company, were paying somewhere between one, thirty, one, thirty five. So if you think about it, now they're looking at where they're going into 2024. Now they have a chance to breathe a little bit and they're looking around, especially in my role, which are non-revenue generating positions.

So looking at that and saying, okay, well, we've got to cut there a little bit and we overhired. Now in the Austin market, it kind of kept us honest because most of our companies here are somewhere between 50 is around a 50 million or P or VC backed. So, you know, P's and VC's were like, yeah, that's cute, but we're not paying senior accounts. You're with 35,000 dollars, right? So kind of kept us honest, which I think also works to our advantage is why we don't sit.

I would say if you look at some areas of the country as far as like our unemployment rate and things like that is pretty low here. 85% is a huge number, I think, for people looking. I mean, that's going with what the LinkedIn editor said. I mean, I'm just saying he's supposed to be the market expert. Right. It's so true. And I know that was just that was yesterday actually. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's a huge number.

And when I think of like LinkedIn as well, you know, everything's pretty clear, pretty posted of what the

job is, what the salary is if it's remote or hybrid. But when you're working with candidates and matching them with compensation for these roles, are there specific negotiation tactics that you you so the employer is not overpaying and the employee is getting the right pay? Yeah. I mean, I think always being honest and transparent on the front is always really important. Right.

Like, you know, and you know, when I talk to a candidate and this is more of my perspective, you know, often I'll ask them, you know, in Texas legally, I can still ask you what you're making. Right. I can ask you, not that may change down the road. There's other states you cannot unless they'd like to volunteer that. But for me, in order to best help you, I really need to know what your overall compensation package is just so that, you know, I need to know your basis. What's your bonus?

What's its high to? What's your incentive comp? You know, pre IPO equity or pre event equity is always hard to evaluate. I know that, but how much are you how fully are you vested in those kinds of things? And I think that's just a really good starting point. I know sometimes people are reluctant to share that because they feel like they're underpaid or those kind of things. But again, in my role, I'm kind of the I'm kind of like your agent, right?

So I'm up to kind of like negotiate that like, hey, you know, here's Melissa. This is her current compensation because in Texas, you could still have to go to fill that on a job application. So why are we like, let's just lay all the cards in the table, right? And it's, but here, but I know her and I know her industry and she's definitely paid 10% before markets. So even though this is her current overall compensation package, this is what her target is.

Candidates often like to give me ranges too. I always tell them that's really cute, but companies don't pay in ranges. So I love that you're open to the range, right? But like, let's talk about what that actually means, right?

So, and then the same is, you know, your bonus, you know, did your bonus payout historically, you know, but one of the things that we, I talk about, I just give a seminar to the job seekers network here in town is, you know, when you're talking about negotiating compensation, you remember, honestly, in the front end, but we want to really stay, you want them to fall in love with you first, right?

They want you're going to have so much more negotiating power when they are like, not in like with you, but then when they are in love with you. Then you've had enough conversations to get them to know you so that you're a little bit of proven entity. Starting right out of the gate with like, and like saying, hey, this is what I'll take, or I won't take with like, kind of this ultimatum, ultimatum is just never a good approach.

Anyways, because then you're just going to be, you know, clients at the end of the day, I want to know you're running to something, not from something, right? And so at the end, even if you really are running from something, but they want to know that you're looking for a career and not a job, right? And so I think part of it is really knowing when to really understanding when it's time to have that compensation conversation and not shooting

yourself in the foot either way. Like coming in, you know, you don't want to undervalue your stuff, you're knowing the opposite yourself, but on the flip side, you don't want your salary in your compensation to become so overly like that. That's just the focus that they're missing out on everything else about you. And there's a time and date to do that. I mean, time and date, a time and date to do that, but you have to be really strategic about when you do that in the process.

And often it's not as hard to explain as people think. You know, salaries are tied to revenues, you know, and so, I mean, a theater the day. So for instance, if I talk to someone from Dell who likes the idea of working in a pre-revenue early stage, $10 million fund, you know, funded startup, well, if you're making $200K, like that's probably not happening, you know, so there has to be a little bit

of a trade-up. I'm not saying that you don't have to make something that's competitive and everybody's financial situation is different, but you're going to have to know that it's not apples to apples, right? I mean, everything from a benefits perspective. And I do a lot of that. I mean, majority of the companies here in town for the most part are not, we only have 50 public iterative companies here. So they say, I love somebody to actually count those, but 50 public iterative companies

here in Austin. And so the most part, most companies are not on the, you know, on the, the larger side of compensation, but I think it's just really understanding. And then asking away, it's amazing to me how often sea level executives that I talk to in my world, it's CFOs, it's C-A-O's, it's because of finance that get into a company and say, you know, I didn't know my, my equity was tied to that, or I didn't know that my equity was really worth that, or I didn't know it vested annually,

I just assumed it vested quarterly. I think they're afraid to ask the question because they feel like they'll come across like, you know, uneducated or, you know, or not knowing how to, because they're a numbers person. And especially if you're coming from a company where you've never had that type of equity because there's so many, you know, I love, in my world, I have wished clients would share their

cap, nobody's sharing their cap table with me, okay? But I'm like, no one, right? You know, because that would be much easier conversation for me to negotiate. So I think as a recruiter, I also have to know when I step out of the process because clients will share with me enough, but often so there's no miscommunication, or, you know, miscommunication about the valuation. I usually let sea level executives have that

conversation. I'd say I've seen here in Austin sea level, I see the little bit of a mix most recently, a lot, before there'd been a lot more of like number of options, you know, number shares, and most recently I've seen a trend more towards percentages. Typically my CFO roles usually are as percentages in anything at the chief accounting officer or CFO level. But again, you've got to know what does

that percentage mean? Like what's the outstanding shares? You know, what's the best thing schedule, what's the dilution? Like all knowing all those things, and unfortunately, you know, clients often don't share that much with me. They share with me enough, like, you know, they call it meaningful equity, which, which, you know, meaningful equity does, and when I tell click-in in its meaning of the equity, we mean there's an exit or some type of like planned exit, depending upon if it's BCPE

backed, are we doing an IPO? Because, you know, there's companies that I work with here in Austin to do this for 18 years that have been telling me they pre-IPO for 10 years. So let's talk about how meaningful that equity is. It's not. It feels good, but is not. You know, I think you touched on a really good point. I wanted to circle back on, there's the resume that has the information to get

you the interview. And there's the actual interview, which are completely separate things. I know I've read resumes many times and I've been hiring for many years where it says attention to detail, and there's like, "Grammical heirs all the way through their resume." Or things are wrong, and I think you nailed it. It's, you know, you've got to find it's a DNA fit for you and it's a DNA fit for the company, and you've got to, they got to fall in love with you. You have better negotiating power

when it works both sides. And, you know, I always, I always, when interviewing people, I a lot of times look at the resume, but I don't interview a ton off the resume because it, it gets you the job interview, but it really would get you the job is your personality and what you're going to do for that company.

Absolutely. And I'm going to, okay, go ahead, boss. Go ahead. I was going to kind of switch gears a bit and we talked about money and I know you touched on it a little bit at the beginning, who was

LinkedIn. You know, personal branding and your professional networks are starting to become huge on LinkedIn. So when you're, you know, you're interviewing for roles, do you look at, you know, really how pivotable, how pivotal is branding professional networks for executive candidates, looking to stand out and differentiate themselves for a position. It's huge and, you know, today's LinkedIn, tomorrow might be do something different, right? But

LinkedIn is the go to, right? And I would say, you know, hiring managers or my clients are looking for any reason to rule you out. So don't give them that reason. You know, I know a lot of my hire managers, whether we start with my preferences to work directly with a hire manager, but often, sometimes the larger companies, we have to go through, you know, internal, the process, internal hurting HR. The first thing they're doing is taking this resume and they're going to see if it

matches your LinkedIn. Like, and it says, tell them, you know, you may say, well, you know, I'm not to social media, I'm LinkedIn, but it tells them a little bit about your, all right, how tech stab is

this person, right? Like, you know, like, I know that maybe they're not spending all day on LinkedIn, but are they usually they're not on LinkedIn because it's something they're afraid of or don't want to post or people, they match, they literally want to match to make sure that your resume is identical

to what's on LinkedIn. If it's not, it gives, it's back to the attention to detail, like, you know, how important is, and I think for them, even when they're, if we're talking about C-level execs, they're not, when they're, when they're hiring you, they're hiring your network too, right? So if they hire you, Melissa, they're going to say, well, okay, so let's say they're working with me, they're like, we're paying, we paid a fee for Melissa, but hopefully we don't pay a fee for the next four or

five because she's going to bring people that she knows and that she trusts. So that's perfect too, and people don't think that far ahead, but really when they're looking, they're looking not only, and does she, you know, does that person really kind of well known in their own, like, in their own,

are they subject matter expert in respect about their peers in their space? So yes, in LinkedIn, and don't think they're not looking at your other social media either, like trust me, I tell you how it is when you're, when you're interviewing, I know you have things hidden, but remember who your audience is, and remember what's out there, remember what you're coming on and what you don't comment on.

LinkedIn, you know, Facebook, yes, that's a personal, personal vertical, you know, a personal platform, I get that, but be very, very careful in LinkedIn, what you actually like, what you're coming in, and how you do that in a way. We're not saying, don't be authentic, we're not saying, don't do yourself, but don't give an hiring potential employer a reason to roll you out.

When it comes down to that very close race between three and four candidates, two and three candidates, it's just little, there's looking for little small reasons to say, you know what, I saw Lori commented on something, and I don't know if that would really fit in here, and Melissa didn't really do that, so that's going to be, I like both, they can both do the job, well, that's going to be my deciding factor. I know it sounds so simple, I mean, it's so, it sounds so silly, but it really is.

So really branding and being authentic on there, and, and accommodating on things that you feel like, you know, they want to see you coming on things relevant to their, you know, to your world and to your audience. They want to see how up to speed you are, especially if you're in a technology, you know, technology space, like, like, you are Melissa, like, really making, I mean, I see your post all the time, right? I mean, you're always up to speed on the newest and latest, and even if you're not

really sure about it, you're like, what do you think, right? Like, so I think they're also, it also sells a lot of people about your communication, your ability to engage. If you go up there, I mean, even in my world, even in a county finance bike up there, and I see someone's LinkedIn profile, and there's no photo, and they have like two connections, because there's fake, there are fake

profiles out there, right? There just are, just in like any space. And so that also makes me think, like, okay, like, you know, again, it just tells people, and how serious are you really about your career search? But LinkedIn is really, I mean, it's a very, and being part of other groups and networks, but yeah, it's a, that's a long answer to a short question, but it's really important. It's really good. I think, um, I agree, like, I've looked at resumes, and I,

the resume said they've been at a company for eight years. I go on their LinkedIn, and they've had a new job every year for eight years. So it makes you question, are these people honest? Are they transparent? And so I think it does, you're right. It does leave different nuggets of information when you're an interviewing manager. So for, for executives that are looking to stand out for jobs, is there anything they could be doing on LinkedIn? Like, anything you suggest that they

do on LinkedIn? Or maybe second, secondly, anything they could do for their own brand that helps them get jobs? I think sea level execs, it's about being consistent, right? Because there is, you know, we have the luxury of having this incredible technology team. Yes, I'm going to give a prop to Dave Burleson. Woo-hoo! He does this incredible, he has done a deep dive on algorithms within LinkedIn.

So we actually have this incredible profile about posting wind-to-post times the post, how many more views you're going to get, like all these kind of things because there is a rhyme to that, right? Like you're going to get more looks, you're going to get more views, and you're always going to get that if you're consistent, right? I mean, I'd say on average, just as if even if you're in a job search or you're a hiring manager, you know, to be relevant on LinkedIn, you've got to touch

at least three or four times a week, at least at a bare bare minimum, right? And it's got to be something relevant to your audience, you know, like, in tagging, you know, tagging companies, but branding, you know, a picture that's, that's, you know, my world conservative, easily accessible, you know, if you're, if you really want, you know, if you're really out there and you're actively looking,

make it easy for someone to contact you. Don't make me have to go through LinkedIn, recruiter to find your contact information and go back there, make it pretty easy for me to find you. So when you click on contact information, whatever you're comfortable with, like, maybe you don't want to advertise your cell phone number out there, but at least put an email or something

in your contact information so I can easily find you. And then remember, when you're doing searching through LinkedIn, whatever your title that you're looking for, that's got to be in your head or somewhere, right? Because that's what, that's what they're pulling up, right? Whether it's, you know, like, I'm looking for like a SAS CFO, like, you know, if I pull up SAS CFO, the ones that say SAS CFO

are going to come up first or just CFO. So I'd say really, in really spending time, instead of, you know, a lot of times people will put just like the name of their company, what they're, you know, their, their title and then nothing about what they're doing. Again, that's where all the search comes from. So the more that you spend time inputting there and the more key words that are like within your industry are going to be, you know, more easily, you know, more, I guess, more discoverable.

And then being part of those, those groups as well, but also like I said, some being present and I'd say, if you're seeing the exact writing original content is huge too, writing something content and specifics your industry, that really gets a look and posting those in groups, being part of groups. A lot of people don't think about when you post, you can also tag a group, you probably see my Melissa. And I think you probably do the same thing. When I post, I use that post, I repost that

thing probably 10 to 12 times, but I just tag different groups. So for me, in, for instance, if I, if I post a controller job today, I post it on my main feed, but then I go back and I share it directly to the Texas CPA Group, CPA society. So when you do a post and you do something that's original content that you think people are interested in, you know, it's working smarter, not harder, take that post and reuse it 10 to 15 times, tagging in those groups that would speak to you.

Not only are people going to get, you know, people you might start networking the people you haven't before, but it's also a way to really dig up, you know, potential job opportunities to for recruiters like myself, looking for you. Again, make sure you're staying in groups that are relevant to yourself. I think the other place that, you know, being consistent and keep your title, what your title is, I mean, I just been doing this for 18 years, honesty is always the best policy.

Like, don't create 15 different versions of your resume. Again, it's, you know, here specifically, in Austin, I think in any market, you can over saturate the market with your resume pretty easily, more than you would think. And if you start, and if you don't think higher managers in CEOs and CFOs and CEOs talk, they do, they talk about, oh, Melissa and I'd be like, oh, I got like three different versions of Melissa's resume for four different roles at my company. That's a little concerning,

because they're the same person, three different versions, three different roles. I had any, I've not even talked to this person, but clearly they don't know what they want to do, you know, and I'm not really looking for that. I'm looking for somebody who knows who they are, knows their brand, knows what they're looking for, you know, and so being very strategic about that and I think that's an easier conversation with people who are employed or passive candidates, but I do speak to a lot of

people who are unemployed, but, and I know you have to work, but be more strategic. I always kind of give them homework. I say in the morning, pick the four or five jobs, companies want to see where you can add value from day one, hands down, whether that's industry, you know, industry relatable, for sure. Especially if you spend a good period of time in one specific industry, they're that's definitely

going to speak to them. So look for the three or four jobs that you want, apply to those, and then, and then switch that in the afternoon. Take more of a proactive approach. Instead of just blindly spending resumes, go to the industries of the companies that you want to work for and directly approach someone. And not in an overbearing way, just saying, hey, you know, I see that you're working

XYZ company. You know, I have 10 to 15 years of experience in this space. I'm not really sure if you're looking to hire, but I'd love to have it, you know, if anything, we can have a, you know, talk

about, you know, talk shop about, you know, about, you know, your particular industry. And you be surprised how much more of a casual approach that opens up than just, you know, trying to apply for, if you try to apply for 15, 20 jobs, like I said, especially, I think at any market, but specifically in this market, people will literally say, you know what, I don't know what's wrong with that person, but they're like,

they're really like, applied like 15 jobs that are at our one company. And so clearly, they don't know what they want in the resumes are different and, you know, all those kind of things. So I think, I think staying true to yourself, in true to your brand, but taking a little bit of a different approach in both ways and simply just applying to postings and kind of reversing that a little bit. I know that that

really resonates, it resonates with me because people do that with me too. They'll reach out to me and say, hey, I saw that you're with an executive search firm. I don't really know what you have yet. I'm not planning to posting. I'm just ready to start my search and I'd like to talk to you a little bit about

market or what you're seeing out there. I would say I probably placed 20% of the people I work with, not because the company has a job order, but because I know that what the company looks for in candidates from a culture perspective. And I know when someone has industry experience, we're all, you know, reach out and say, to a higher manager, I've known for 10 years, you know, I don't know if you're hiring, but I know from working with you before what you're looking for in candidates. And this

person's got 10 years of industry related experience in your space. Is this someone you might be interested in speaking with? There's a good chance that either they're just interested in the candidate, which is always a good conversation. Now you have another sealable contact in your market, which is never a bad day. Or there's a role that they're getting ready to kick off next quarter,

but now they're going to move up that timeline because you already live there. So I think taking a two strong approach versus waiting for some perfect job posting to pop up, especially in the sealable world. So I would say most of my, I mean, I just picked up a seal of search this morning. I'm not posting it. It's a retained search, right? Like I don't think people understand like, like, you know, sealable searches for the most part, you're not going to find those online. Those are

going to either be through retained search firm or a confidential search. So, you know, you creating that network is where you really dig those up. You know, if a company thinks they're going to get their next CEO by posting a CEO job online, like you might want to question working for that company. So because I know the only reason that I post in this market is so that people can tie me to this brand.

That's not really where we get our candidates for the most part. For the most part, we're really like target recruiting people, but I think that at the sea level, you've got to do a little legwork on the front end to create those networks and those connections. I think if you talk to most sealable execs, that's typically where often the opportunities come from. Yeah, I agree. Just one thing came to mind. So I know you've been staffing and recruiting for many, many years.

What are the top skills that you, I know that's a bold question because there's hundreds of skills out there. Like in the world of hiring today, what are the top skills employers are looking for? Whether it's a C-suite role or a VP role or a director role, what are those top skills they're looking for in a potential hands of it? Do you mean more, because my world is specific to accounting and finance, do you mean like specific skill sets or like newer, like things like ESG

that are out there? Like ESG is like a big one, right? Even in my world, like being an ESG controller, which is employer sustainability, I was disturbed by myself, employer sustainability, I mean, sorry, environmental, social and governance, like that's become, you know, and depending upon what industry, like we have a company here in town that's going to be looking for an ESG controller. And obviously that's the accounting and finance role, but it's all tied directly to the

impact that that company specifically is having on the environment. So that's kind of a newer one. I mean, that's even a newer one for me. Like, yeah, I love this business because you always have to learn new things. I heard a little inkling of it last year, but because we don't have the larger publicly-treated companies here in Austin, that's where you're going to particularly find them. There wasn't a majority of them, but now I've heard about two or three this year. So I say,

that's one area, AI of course, right? I mean, AI is just kind of a way to go. Skill sets as far as sea level goes. I mean, you know, being tech savvy upon you, I mean, I can speak probably more to my world as far as, you know, being any type of ERP system or ERP platform more than, you know, just a quick book scenario is going to always be good. The go-to here in Austin is net sweet for sure, but I'm working with a company right now that is going through a conversion

to SAP Forehanna. And literally they need someone who's an accountant, but it also is tech savvy in the implementation of SAP Forehanna. Yeah, if you know anyone, let me know. So, the next point is I have some friends that are currently looking for C and VP roles, and they say, they sent me some of these jobs descriptions, and they're like, they're looking for unicorns,

like, various different unicorns. And so I just funny because I see some of these job descriptions with friends of mine that are interviewing, and they're like, yeah, you have to like, very specific role, very specific time. But any final thoughts, like maybe top three things that

potential candidates in any field can do to enhance their ability to be more either likeable on social or better with the resume. I guess any closing thoughts. I mean, I think the biggest thing, and I give this presentation the other day, and it's one they've asked me to do like four or five times, I think the biggest, what I hear when like in my mind, when I submit candidates to a job, I in my mind test myself to say, I wonder how they're going to rank them, right? And I wonder who looks

shoes. And sometimes, you know, I've had a lot of times, I'm kind of on point, but a lot of times, I'd say, yeah, I mean, I'm more often on point, but the time that I'm not, it's because my candidate didn't prepare or take the time to prepare. Like, it's like anything, and that's the biggest thing that I hear about companies when they, when they pass on a candidate where I'm like, wow,

you passed on that candidate, I kind of thought that was a ringer, right? And they're like, the way he didn't, he or she didn't know by the end of the company, they didn't know anything relevant. So I think really truly what the deal breaker is companies will hire anybody's nine times out of 10 on culture fit passion over technical any day of the week. So make sure, and you as a candidate, I think your ability to tire self to the mission to the product, to the service

will make your job that always feel like so much of a job. So I think it's a win-win for both, but do your homework, do your research, don't try to cram the night before. I mean, when I prep our candidates, you prep our candidates days before, we do a lot of legwork for them because

they're working, so we do a lot of that, but do your due diligence. Know about, you know, if you're not good at an engaging conversation, don't bring 10 questions, bring 15 questions, you know, know something relevant about the industry, know something, you know, see if you know other people that work there. If you know you're uncomfortable talking to someone, go look on their link to

them profile, see where they went to school, see where they were raised. You just don't want that weird awkward silence because again, then you have that lack of engagement in a role where you have to be cross-functional or especially in sea level roles where that's just inherent, and you have to be able to work and know your audience or work across the organization and literally be very visible. You've got to have that two way, like knowing how to knowing your audience, but being able to speak

to it in a way that people understand is really important. And I say, that's probably the biggest complaint I get from. It's the most, I say, the biggest reason that clients push back on a candidate that on paper is purely qualified, but literally hasn't taken the time to prep or really, and you know, things like, don't answer, what is your weakness with a strength? Oh god, like, don't do that. God, like, what is your weakness? Oh, I work a lot. Okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

don't do that. It was like the biggest thing. Like, everybody has a weakness. I don't care what it is.

Mine's listening. I'm working on it, right? So, you know, for me, like, I'm always thinking about the next thing I want to say, instead of like trying to make sure I'm being present and being in the moment with a person, but I'm usually it's usually because I'm really excited about what they're talking about, which isn't a bad thing, but you've got to be a little bit more self-aware of those things.

Yes, so don't answer, you know, yeah, your, like, your strength, you know, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, I love that. It's so true though. And I think getting to know people, not just for the role, but who they are, like, what are their characteristic traits? What are their personality traits? What are they like? Typically, how they engage? You can pull some of that

information out outside of just their resume. And yeah, it baffles me, Lori, that people still, I've interviewed many times where people had no idea what our company did. I know, I know, I know. And I'm blown away by that. If you want a job or you want anything, whether it's anything, you would do some research on it. And you're right. As a hiring manager, the minute that they have no idea about anything that we do or the company, like, they're absolutely

not even to the next step because that basic thing that they should be doing. And it really blows me away because I've literally prepared them for it, like, here, like, the night before, like, here's the company. Here's recent articles. I know they're working, right? So, for coming home, they're working, I've passed the candidates. And then it's like, the last thing you want to have to do is read books

on the outside when you get home, right? So, and the fact that they actually didn't do that, it tells me a lot about them. They're not really serious about making a change. They're probably a huge counteroffer risk to stay with their current company for that reason. Like, maybe they're just trying to negotiate and offer another company to get a better one than where they are. They're not really committed to

the process. So, you've got to be questions whether I'm going to actually work with them going forward. Also, in the interview process, you have to really emotionally prepare. If you're coming from a situation that's negative or toxic, you've got to stay PC. And you sometimes, to really emotionally, you've prepared that. I don't care how great of a camaraderie you feel with somebody that you're hiring, that you just met 30 minutes ago. They're trying to see where, where is Melissa

going to be dramatic? Like, you know, where, like, they're trying to get to pull you into that, so don't, you know, make sure you stay. And they might even try to drill down on that and say, hey, listen, you checked off the box. I really would love to know why you're looking to leave. Say, you know, hey, I know it was just time, you know, I've been there for a while. I kind of outgrew my role. You know, I just, the culture kind of shifted. I just didn't fit there anymore. You know, those kind of

things. But don't all of a sudden be like, hey, you know, just because you feel a good rapport with a person, they're trying to see you, you know, because that's the last thing they want on their team is someone who's going to create what they consider, you know, that banter of drama and everything else, right? So, good. And the other thing I was thinking, they just popped in my head. I've been on interviews where people are like this, or hands are on their head for their body language. And

I have another thing like smile, you're not looking for a root canal. Show them your personality. I've had multiple times like, like, I'm like, really am I that engaging where you're mindful of your body language? It's absolutely to the person that's talking and it's your nervous or you don't understand the question asked, would you mind reading this or what do you mean about this question? And I think people that are interviewing appreciate that maybe they didn't ask the

question right and they want to get your answer. But I'm always baffled when people do like, can you hold on one minute? I got to keep it all. Like I'm like, I'm a fierce. These kinds of things are common sense, but not always common. Yeah, and you're staying staying clear and concise to the point, right? Like, it's best sea level for sure. Sea level, most sea level execs don't care how you got to

the bomb line. They just want to know the bomb line is, right? And so, and if they want you to expand, they'll ask you to expand. But don't get to like answer the question first. And then if they like you to expand on that topic, great, but stay clear. Because again, it's going to tell them, how's my internal communication with the Melissa? Is Melissa going to be one of those people that's like, hey, I need a minute. And it's more like, you know, like, you know, you know, 50, 60 minutes, right?

Like those kind of things. So I think really sticking to that when you're talking and really making sure back to like staying in the moment because often an interviewer or so hire manager is testing you, they may say something earlier in the conversation. And if you're not really paying attention, they may circle back at the end and ask you what you thought about that or how you related that to some other aspect of your career. And if you're not really paying attention and really in the moment

and really staying engaged, you won't even know what they're talking about, right? And so, and I think really being, make it easy on yourself. Have your resume there. Write down questions. Ask tell, you know, tell them say, hey, I like some of the things you're saying. Do you mind if I take notes? That way they know if you're, it doesn't look like you're distracted. You're just taking notes on what they're saying. That's not always a bad thing. I always tell candidates ask first so that

they don't think you're just like writing something else. But like I said, I think it's just some of this is just, I mean, some of this is just common sense. I mean, even on a tire, you know, it's where what you would normally were to a professional interview. I don't know how other way to explain that. Like,

and I've actually prepared if you want to share the audience, I'm fine with that. I've prepared a PowerPoint on the three different types of interviews and how to prepare for them differently because a fun interview is one of the hardest interviews ever because they can't see you, they can't see any inflat, they, you know, they can't see your face, they can't see it. I think

phononers are really hard. And I think they're also, I always try to deter my, my higher manager from ruling someone out just based on a phononer review because I do think that that doesn't give you anything about the soft skills telling someone to smile. All those, it's really hard. And, you know, even to even inflection in your voice sometimes. But also we have one that's virtual and then on, you know, an on site one and I have these tips and traits about preparing for them and those kind

of things because they're all very different. And I think there, you know, some people are comfortable from a camera. Some aren't so practice. So don't make it a dry run the first time you've interviewed because the last thing you want to do is a higher manager is say, you know, I really liked

everything about Melissa. I liked her resonate, but she was kind of awkward on screen. She was like, you know, like, you know, and, and, and then you'll be kicking yourself because you're like, you know, if I just practice that a couple times, like with my family, my friends, gosh, is that the reason that again, they're looking for the little differences between you and someone else who prepared much better. I love it. All good information. We'd love to share any extra information.

Laurie, I love talking to you. You always have so much great information. And the speed at which you can get it all out is amazing. Northeast. From the Northeast originally, I'm not a born and bred Texan, but I've been here for 20 years. That's probably a bad excuse. I love it. I love it. I follow all of it. Thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate all your insights and all the information you shared with our listeners. Connect with Laurie. She is always willing to help. And

until next time, thanks for listening to the Executive Connect podcast. Thanks, Melissa. Appreciate it. You've been listening to the Executive Connect podcast. If you have questions or ideas on how to bring leadership to the next level, email us at Executive Connect podcast@gmail.com. And don't forget to subscribe, shake me, catch every new episode. Until next time.