Being Driven to Inspire with Les McDaniel

He's also in the exchange community as facility. And less is such an incredible human being and this discussion we're going to go deep in a number of places. He is someone who's truly overcome many challenges. Some of those challenges, if you can imagine he was a boy growing up named Leslie, and that doesn't say at all right there, uh, he is, uh, not as tall as the average human. So he grew up shorter, a little bit smaller with the name of last, but just imagine that being the place we start.

No, there was opportunities with bullies and school and he Chronicles part of that in our discussion. Also, his wife had a

Last is just an amazing

He likes to continue to take positive action towards and whatever it is, the objective is, uh, he believes going head first into your fears. He Chronicles his story today in the podcast. He's always open. He's always willing to be curious. So get ready and Buckley your seats in for a shallow dive. At first, it gets deep, fast in this discussion. This is a truly amazing human being. I love very much things, less McDaniel. Welcome.

You know, I've just recently kind of discovered that some of the, my past traumas in my own life are not totally fully healed. And yet there's, there's a, not a resistance in me to wanting to welcome that challenge, to welcome her, her cancer, to really begin to dive into what that looks like. Well, we're jumping right in aren't we, but, uh, I'll tell you that one of the, I was listening to Rahm Doss this morning.

He has this saying that is all suffering is showing you, is where your mind is still clinging. And the idea for me is very much that that is a deep rooted thing within me, that I recognize that anytime that I feel sad or I'm suffering and it's, and you can even be suffering in. Honestly, but anytime I feel that what is really going on deep within me is this thing that I'm holding onto this idea of what life should be, as opposed to the reality that is present at this particular stage in my life.

You know, we have a lot of things going on, besides that we got, you know, my, my son is leaving the nest, if you will. And he's the last of my four kids to leave the nest, uh, this. And there's this sense of excitement that comes along with that and a sense of sadness. So it's like, there's both of these things walking hand in hand at all times in our world, there's never a situation where something is lately joyful. It's always letting go of something in order to gain some.

And so I think the joy for me is living kind of as best as I can. And, and in perfectly with an open hand, not with closed fist, tightly held so that, you know, onto whatever it is that I think I should have, but just being open to what, what is ever next. And, and it is, it is a, you know, it's literally like a roller coaster where you're rising to the top of that roller coaster and you start to grip onto the rail.

And then there's a sense of you finally, you get over that hump and the joy comes all of a sudden you can start to feel your hands lift up in the air and feel that joy of that freedom, just that free fall and knowing that, oh, this is great. I know that every feels that way about it.

And even to even talk about that and your next statement afterwards is around, you know, being able to find the joy in things, you know, I'd love to just back up for a second since you've you took the ball and ran with it, man, but let's back up a second and I'd love to outline some of these challenges that you've had in your life. What they've taught you and how you've gotten to this place where you are in your life right now.

So could you back up for a second and share with us, what are some of the challenges you faced? Let's kind of deconstruct what they've taught you and how you've maintained joy

come into a group of guys that have just been really supportive of me, not to mention that for our dads. That's another group of guys has been incredibly supportive to me. My life has it. Hasn't been a. Cherries or whatever, whatever the great sayings are that it's always easy. I've been very blessed, but it's blessed because of how I think I've decided to look at life, my quest and pursuit of how I want to see the world versus what maybe is really playing out is probably where that comes in.

I've never been. Um, even as a kid, I should say I was never someone who just was like status quo. I was, I was born into this world, a runt named Leslie that's where, that's, where,

I mean, that's the complete opposite of more and, you know, big, it's not necessarily something that we always think of as positive in our world, so that it created in me a deep curiosity around people and how to navigate that world where I didn't get my butt handed to me everyday by bullies. And so I learned how to befriend them. I learned how to, how to connect.

Each and every person that was in my world and how to, how to survive and thrive in many ways, just as a result of that, you know, I was a funny kid. Um, probably more out of, I was able to take the jokes first and foremost. And then I learned how to start to create a world where I could make people laugh. My teachers laugh. I was kind of the class clown that they loved, but it also came with a lot of struggle.

You know, I had, I had some, uh, I've had many times where I was raised in the church and the church was, I always took things that were in scripture. Very literally I really felt deep down in my soul that we were supposed to live this particular way that Jesus lived. And at that time, that's all I really knew was this particular way of like, this is how we live and I would ask questions and I would, and they were the, you know, basically. W why is it that homeless guy coming to church with us?

And why isn't that homeless guy? Our neighbor shouldn't we love him too. And, or I would just try to understand people and why they would do things the way they would do them. And, and I would know people that were, seemed really good on the outside, but I could hear the, this judgment that would sometimes come from the. That sounded like. Yeah, but they, they kind of have to do certain things and conform to certain patterns. Well, that made me a target too.

You know, that made me a little bit of a target because I was always trying to find ways to open the door to people. And, and when it felt like no

I do have one, I do have one, you know, one of my good friends, one of my best friends when I was in high school, decided he thought it would really be a good idea to get in a fight with a guy who was a quasi gangster and was a part of a gang. And in the wonderful west Texas town of Abilene. You know, I was like, what in the world are you doing? And so I knew what we were getting into. I knew this guy, I knew who was going to be showing up to this fight.

And I'm like, I'm going to go with you and we're not going to end up fighting. I showed up. And, you know, I looked at the situation and I saw one guy over here who's, uh, who had a, uh, a particular sawed-off type weapon in his trench coat, which was just like hilarious that he thought he was hiding it, several others who were packing and the guy who was about to fight who had a knife. And I, I just literally looked at all of these guys and I'm like, guys, here's the.

None of this is going to go down for the good for anyone. You know, you, this got you, who's got your gun, you're gonna pull it out. And then what you're going to, you're going to kill shoot. And over what two guys who are just trying to settle this something that's a disagreement about some girl or whatever it was at that particular time. And the irony of it was is that I was both the friends of these guys that were also gangsters, because I told you I learned this way of being able to manage.

And I was also the friends with this other, my best friend, you know? And

And I mean, looking back it's like, that was just stupid. Right? It was like, why would you show up to a gang fight where there are going to be guns and knives with nothing, except for your words.

Are some of the challenges that are coming in the next decade of your life and in the twenties.

I'd kind of conformed a lot of things. You know, I was, I was this kid who had actually, when I, and I got married young, I mean, I got married when I was 21 years old. And so I've been married 27 years now or almost 20. So. I had an amazing world with her, but, and we were very involved in church at that particular juncture.

And literally I remember knocking on some of the people's doors when they wouldn't show up for Wednesday night service and having this kind of gentle conversation about don't forsake the assembly and all those other kinds of stuff. That's pretty hilarious and conservative, but, but still within me was this reading of, of this great story and learning about this unbelievable mercy and grace. And as I started to do that, we started to work with people that were.

But at the same time my wife was pregnant. We had a pregnant drug addict who moved in with us and we helped her, you know, along that path just by loving her and just, just being there for helping her get into a house at one point. And you know, all of it was, it was good and it was meaningful. There was all the, a lot of things around that that were just unique about how the church responded, which was not necessarily always the way that I thought, or should it be.

Uh, versus the reality, which was that, you know, you, when you help people, it doesn't mean that they're going to turn out exactly. Like you hope it doesn't mean that they're going to flip a switch and all of a sudden be good people or conform to the way that we think that I think it should look what social standards are and all that kind of stuff. And it was just, that was one of the many conversations that I've had over the years with people that were different than.

And learning how to love people and realizing that some of their choices don't make them bad, that we are all just kind of products of our, of our upbringing, of our circumstances and that it's not easy. And that, and in that it, it started to well up in me, like, what does this mean for us to be loving? What does it mean to love our neighbors, to love our enemies? Like, what does this, what does all this mean to really begin to love people no matter what, no matter where they're at.

And I, and I was radical in some ways about that and very defensive of those who were underrepresented in our. And it's just such a deep thing for me that that, uh, has been a problem in my own mind because it's, it, it leads me to be in, in many ways, looked at like that those who are underrepresented. And I don't like that because I, I, my family and, you know, it, it would be like, literally my family, my parents, if I was to say, Hey, I really liked this. I want to love this other person.

That's out here on the fringes and bring them into our home. And my parents be like, well, we don't want them here for Christmas or Thanksgiving. That's not what. And it's not that they aren't loving or wanting to be that for those people, it's just that it breaks, breaks them out of their mold of what it's supposed to, they have created, and it makes us all uncomfortable. And it's always messy, you know, the way it has been for many once in my life.

And it drove me to actually go back and get my masters of divinity at Abilene Christian, because I was just so tired of feeling like I was this odd ball and how I was viewing things. That was good. And amazing and empowering. And at the same time, it just created a, uh, in many ways, a greater distance between myself and those who cause it, it literally was like, yes, we are supposed to live this way. Or we have the opportunity to live this way. It's not the way we were supposed to.

We can be those who provide that in the world.

And this presented challenges because others don't see it, the same frame that.

It just is what it made me feel like, because I curiosity often made, created fear in others because of the, you know, we, we, as humans, we want to be, we want to believe. We want that space of feeling like we belong somewhere. And when, when we start building that belonging around belief systems that are always shifting, always changing, it creates a little bit of uncertainty that we don't want. We want to be certain about this afterlife thing or whatever it might be.

And we're willing to forgo even happiness now, which is the most bizarre thing we're we're, we're willing to take on hell on earth. For an eternity in heaven, for lack of a better word, this is sounding awful, your spiritual and religious and it, everything is spiritual my book, but I don't mean to be religious in this. This is life like that. The essence of life is, is fundamentally grounded in our ability to understand the tensions that we live in.

And when we start to think that there is some way for us to capture a secure. In some form of understanding of God or defining God or a defining community or whatever, we start to alienate ourselves and others from what it truly means to be human, to be truly a one with co with creation and with. I mean, we do this in all sorts of ways.

I mean, look at the west compared to the east, you know, we call the east woo and the west is what, what are we dogmatically entrepreneurial driven to success and driven to these other things. These are all related to this very question of, you know, what it means to love one another. And, and when we are, the more we separate ourselves into the mindset of creating our identity around certain beliefs or around certain practices, the more we start to create a world that separates.

From the fullness that of joy that we really want to experience. I'll give you one example of one more example. Like when I want to, when I seek security and I build up walls around myself and I have enough money and enough savings in a, in a great business and you know, all these things, the first thing that I have to do is I have to set security systems up security cameras. I need to arm myself and I need to find ways to get. To maintain that security. That's not, that's not security.

That that means I'm insecure. It means that I have to have all these things in order to be okay. And so it's the very thing that when we create that security that we think we want we're in at the very same moment, we are embracing the fullness of insecurity because now we don't want to lose it. Where is that holding on tight to the things that we, that we have without a flexibility for something else to come along. That's suffering. We create it's minor and it may be luxuriously suffering.

It may be all sorts of things, but it's still suffering because we have this fear of losing what we've gained.

So part of me wants to have a divergent thought here, but I'm not sure how to approach it because I feel, uh, right now that everything you've shared, I feel like if love is what you're seeking, are you telling me that that is something that we can lose? And that is something that, because we're seeking love, we're suffering.

I

Is that meaning if I, if I'm, if I'm so bent on being it, being secure in my, my relationship with my wife, that I have to hold onto it, is that love or is it loving when I can be trusting and I can let that go and I can let my wife be who she is and explore life on her terms and not have to see eye to eye on every single thing that's going on in my world, but still be able to embrace her and love her despite

our differences, or maybe because of our differences and allow that to flourish, because that is what true relationship. We experienced this in front row dads, you know, it's this idea of the ability to the, the yes. And it's our ability to sit with one another, despite our differences and love one another. Now, imagine if we started to raise up I ideas or ideologies around front row dads that says, it looks like this, and it has to be this way.

The moment that we start doing that is the moment that we actually start pushing people out because they're not conforming to the way that we want it to. And, or we're in, we're starting to huddle around certain ideals of what it looks like.

And we're always trying to create boxes around that so that we can find ways to protect the identity that we're raising up within that as the way of being, and that's not free, that's not loving, it's loving is, is the idea that when it rains, it rains on the good and it rains on the evil.

It could be, uh, you know, being very close and, and having that the, the day by day connection where you are texting each other back and forth all the time, it can be very tight like that, or it can be very open and what you would, what you would call it, trusting where we don't need to do that. It can be any way. For anyone. So it's it's curiosity. It's yes.

When we, when it's now the texting back and forth and the, you know, the intimacy that, that, that we can create and how that plays out is, is totally free. But it's when we start having a stranglehold on something, when we start trying to control the behaviors and the, and the, and the way that somebody else does and lives this life.

That we, it gets on the edge of first and foremost, not loving ourselves because we're not able to, we're not able to love ourselves or see ourselves outside of something that exists outside of us, that person. And it keeps us from truly expressing that fullness of what it means to, to be. Forgiveness caring for one another in compassion.

And I think we just have to be careful in our world of, and this is why we have such a split in our world right now, Matt, is that, you know, we, we have this idea that it has to be, everything has to be completely right or wrong. And then everybody has their definition of what that looks like. And that's not very loving and we can see that play out.

And the way things happened on January 6th of what was it, 20, which happens to be my birthday, by the way, it's like a sad thing that I got on your birthday. But you know what, at the Capitol where, where people are raising up and ready to go and take over, you know, something about that, that's built on ideologies belief systems as though we know.

And there's just this level, there's this place in our world where we, we begin to have to understand that we don't know everything and we don't have all the answers and that it's going to be messy. And my marriage is going to have ups and downs. We're going to fight and then we need to forgive and then we need to have intimacy. And then we need to, you know, and we have this cycle of things. And over time that begins to that's freedom. It's the freedom for it to go to all the different places.

It needs to go in order for it to continue to grow and be, and, and be what it truly needs to be. I mean, I think you would probably agree with. I want my wife to be happy. And if I ever am in the reason why she is not truly able to find joy in this world, and I am limiting her in any way, at least for me, I want, I want her to be free from me. I want her to be free to be able to leave. And it's in that where the excitement and joy of life comes. That's the rollercoaster ride.

It's the, I don't know if this is going to be able to be. It's the uncertainty of is this, is this gonna go off the rails? That's where true life happens. It's in that tension between the, what, you know, the good and the bad.

What are we facing right now with that? What's the challenge and what's, what's it teaching an analysts

And thankfully, this is not a death sentence. This is chronic myeloid. Leukemia is something that is very treatable. It's a bone marrow situation where. Can make all sorts of pain and inflammation occur. And so she's just been in a lot of pain. And this is after in 2016, having had a stroke. And so she's no, we are together. We are no strangers to suffering. She has had her share of the one who's dealt with it mostly physically, and which has created emotional traumas as well.

But when it comes to how this has played out is. Which is a funny thing to say as well after the stroke we saw what the, what kind of teacher it was. We saw how life's curriculum transition for us into what is, what is life teaching us? And it drew us closer. It's helped her appreciate the, um, the goodness of life in ways that.

I think a lot of people miss when they, when everything seems to be easy, when everything physically seems to be going well, she is incredibly driven by health herself and always has been. And I mean, I remember when she woke up from the stroke, for example, the first words out of her mouth, and I didn't know what I was going to wake up to. What was the question of, what did I do? She had a stroke and her first questions are, what did I do wrong?

And I think that we live in a world where there's this perception that we have to do all these things particularly, right. And that there's some particular right way to live life. And that when we experience something that is like suffering or consequences or crisis, that we have done something wrong rather than just understanding that life, life just has kind of got its own life has got its own life.

And it's the same thing now, you know, so there's a lot of, a lot of questions about what's the right path for treating this kid. And there is no right path and you can always change your path. You can always decide to do a different type of treatment. And, and so she wants to, I think, but that comes, that's all wrapped up in a fear of life ending that's end of suffering. And there's this stigma of suffering and this stigma. Prices and things that happen in our world that our news makes.

So, I mean, really think about how much the media makes such a big deal out of all the stuff that is happening in our world to the nth degree, because for the sake of entertainment, but it creates fear within us. And it's fear of dying. It's fear of sickness, it's fear of suffering and all these things, rather than us being able to explore those things, they tell us what we're supposed to believe about them. They tell us what the outcomes are supposed.

And when you're in it, though, you have to start shutting those voices off and you have to start asking for and seeking truth about what does this really mean? You know, did I do something wrong? Is there something more to this that's going on? Is there something about this that there's a lesson in? And so we've just been seeking those lessons and they're, they're not easy. And some days, you know, it's miserable and other days it's, it's incredible. Last night had an incredible joyful moment.

In terms of just talking about how, how, like every single experience my, your health and my health represent health for her and, and her sickness represents our own sickness. When we start to get outside of our individual selves, when we stop, we stop being so narrowly focused on making sure I do every single thing. Right. That I get to do no matter what, at all costs I succeed, I will win. I will.

All the things that we sometimes get focused on in the west that very masculine energy, it loses sight of the nurturing side of the very feminine energy. And we need both of those things. And so she represents for us that nurturing side. Yeah, I am now living into the nurturing for her caring for, and that's not my gift, but I get to exercise that, which makes me a more whole human.

And in that moment, when I'm healthy, she's able to highlight that and say, I am so grateful for you and how you are currently expressing your health and your journey. And it's in that full picture that she doesn't feel alone, that she feels like she's being supported and that she feels, and I feel supported because I get to support her and him.

It's that expression of, of our oneness as, as humans, that when we can begin to start unifying around the collective situation, then we grow into a more whole human being and a whole oneness, something beyond human being is where we start to begin to live life as a part of creation and experience all joys of it.

You've gotten super deep. I think we're way down here in the Mariana's trench. We're in the deepest waters known to humankind right now. Uh, I'd love to bring it back up. Let's let's come back up to, uh, to, to the level just a little bit below the water. And I love to ask you about, as you're finding all these challenges with all your wife's health, you said she had a stroke, uh, and now recently the cancer, how are you responding, reacting, leading as.

And this time, I mean, how do you keep up, you know, the face or the attitude when it comes to parenting your fortunate?

And it's that essence of love and forgiveness that creates that compassionate opportunity. And the chaos is like the chaos is the colors is a real key to this. When we are having those cattle moments, it's an opportunity for us to make something out of. I get stuck in it. And I drown in the pink colors, but to really be able to find ways to create something new out of it, this is what nature does, right? It's like a seed falls from a tree and dies so that it can then create something else.

Another tree and fire burns up things. And then in its place, it is the thing, the fertilizer for the next thing to grow. And that's the that's what is nature. And we have within us, we have that with.

Like, let me just be a white 48 year old middle-class male Republican or, or liberal. I don't care. It would go either direction. Just, just make it simple for me so that I can just cling to something and, and it just doesn't work. And it puts me in a place where I feel I have felt alone.

It is, it has created trauma from me from a perspective of being in business with powerful men and women to, uh, being someone who, who really wants to push the limits of love and, and open the doors to, to everyone to just be loved. And I have often felt like. Very alone and all that. And, uh, some of my own traumas and the challenges that I faced, even with my wife. I mean, sometimes, you know, the way I see the world drives her insane because of the fact that everything is.

So let me tell you a story and, you know, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I am learning to embrace this side of me in a way that has been challenging. I think that there are a ton of people in our world who desire to be able to start to think outside of the boxes that they've been put in and the core of my being, that's what I want so desperately. And yet I also am afraid. I'm afraid of continually standing outside, looking in on people who seemingly are happy and dressed, right.

And look right and successful and, and all these things. And I'm afraid that I can't make a living doing it. And I'm afraid that all, like all those things still play out in my own. I mean, th this is the reason that I exist. I exist for the purpose. I believe of just of, of showing people that they can be free to be who they are. And that means that the most limiting belief that someone may have, it is true for them. And it is true for me too. And others have, have maybe seen a bigger picture.

That truth or that belief that some of us have, uh, about whatever it is, is just a small piece of the picture. I just want to be able to help people expand that picture in such a way that they're starting to see more of life experience, more joy, not to get caught in the lines of dogma. That simply say, if you are suffering, if you are poor, if you are broken, you know, if something's going on with you, you've done something wrong.

I want to help people to see the chaos that they're feeling and help them establish ways of creating the life that they want from that, because that is so valid and so important for all of our stories.

It has to be with an intent of, of something bigger than myself and, and that, so if I, if I'm working with someone, I want to know that they are someone who's not just, I'm not just hiring them to fill their pocketbooks, but that they are, they recognize that they are in this for the greater good of all, when I can work with more people like that. And I can start to listen to other people's stories. Th then literally the name of my company is epic fusion.

It's where our stories become fused together. And when stories are fused together, when my suffering is fused with your suffering, my suffering feels lighter and energetically, it puts off light, literal light. It helps other people begin to see their story as valid and good as a part of the greater story. And so when we can do that with one another and what I do that for myself, it's knowing you.

It's why I'm a part of front row dads, because when I'm with you guys, All of the things that I've struggled with, where I'm at with my kids and being about to be an empty nester, it's in service to the greater good of front row dads.

It's allowing me to help other dads realize that this thing that they feel so chaotic about is an opportunity for them, them to find incredible joy and love and grow closer to their kids rather than to start to create rules that try to manipulate and control the situation for their own, for them to feel like, oh, look, my kids are upstanding since. No man.

It's like, let's get this shit messy. Let's understand that life is just messy. And it's fun in that, that state. I mean, there's a reason why we do things like the tough Mudder and run hard races and do stuff that you know, where we get to just be playful and be kids. Cause that's where, that's where the essence of life is for us.

And if the purpose is say, it's front row dads or the purposes, you know how you serve people through epic fusion, it's when we're in alignment and purpose and we're open and curious, we can find love. We can find,

I mean, all the guys will not appreciate this if I literally do this, but to be completely naked. Yeah, man. My life is a struggle right now to allow for the fact not to not to pretend like I am some sort of trauma free, you know, hero.

That's going to show up and save the day of anybody or what, but no, it's just that I'm going to contribute real life experiences to the fullness of the group that they're also going to be willing to do the same when the tendency is, as you know, we, it's a powerful group of men. So the tendency or the.

The temptation I should say is to put on a facade, to put on a mask that allows a certain side of me to be seen so that others may look up to me or think of me a certain way so that I can achieve some goal or some outcome in my life that I think is important to me, the things that I'm clinging to, I want to go out like this. I want to be open for my ego to be challenged. I want to be open for my bullshit to be called.

I want to be, because I think it's, then that I, I can truly experience, love, both giving it and receiving it because there's nothing that you will ever find. You'll you're never going to be able to look at me. And when I run for president one day, that's not going to happen and pull out a bunch of stuff and say, oh yeah, well, you did this when you were, and you did this and you did this, I'm going to be like, I've always said that. That's always been there.

There's never been a moment that it hasn't been there. What else do you want to say? I'm, I'm owning my stuff. What are you hiding? You know, that you feel like you need to point it out. So that, that is where I want to be in my life. Not just with throw dads, but in every aspect of my life. And my suffering comes when I don't, when I'm not true to. My suffering comes when I start to hold onto the things that I tried to protect

Whatever, whatever the duality is, that's where they can see that they can embrace it. They can learn to love through it. Oh, and a quick, a service announcement front row, dads retreats are not naked retreats. Just want you to know that everyone out there, you know, but back to it is that we are creating an environment where, uh, openness curiosity that can help us get to a place of. And that's how you deal head on with challenges and fears, uh, is openness, curiosity and play all

So I think that's a, I think that's a really important key for any of us that are out there trying to make it in this life and, and find ways to be successful. And because then we start to uncover other ideas about what success looks like. It becomes more of that relational aspect because it really literally, it's only about me and you and other people that we surround ourselves with it. That is the only way we actually understand our existing.

Th there is no existence without the rest and until we can be free to be that, then there's, there's no way for us to truly appreciate. Well,

What I do that does not go well, does not go

And she can look at me. She goes, it's going to be. And we enjoy, I love you for feeling that way, but it's going to be, that is where the solution is. It's not in, it's not even in seeing cancer as the problem. The problem is that I see cancer as a problem. That's the problem. The problem is that I began to think that it shouldn't be here. And so when I can just begin to embrace it, this is what it's supposed to be.

And now how does, how does love express itself in this particular moment at his best? Then I become a part of something that's the greater good for? Not just, it's not about me because let's be honest. If I, why else would I not want. It's an inconvenience for me. I mean, more than it's an inconvenience for me, because this is the only way I know how to express my world.

It interferes with, if she's not feeling good because the cancer then guess what my intimacy levels go down, her anger or her sadness goes up, which means I have to be available. And that interferes with my plans. And I like, but if I can just let go of all that, if I can be open ended about it and just allow it to be, and then be responsive in the moment, then it begins to be something that is rewarding for both of us. And it allows us to now be experienced love in a way that is whole.

And I can't, I can't say, you know, when we talk about oneness in marriage, one is in marriage is literally just that freedom to be able to love one another unconditionally, no matter what to forgive. And to allow the chaos to be the thing from which we birth new creation from. And I will go back to that probably for the rest of my life. It is such a key piece of, of life for us. And I have, we have moments where we're like, yeah, I wish we could get rid of that.

But I think at the end of the day, with everything that we learned in everything that we come to and everything, that, all the things that we are growing in, like, she's, she'll tell you, she would not want to go back and not have a stroke. What would we have? What would we lose without. What would we be missing in our relationship with ourselves, with our kids, with our, with the world. Yes,

And I love everything you've said, uh, unless I'd love to a speaking of love. I love to build a bridge here to our last question. And I know we could go on for hours because we have before and we already have today and let's go to something very specific and tangible. The last question I love to ask. I like to give you a runway on this one, just let me, maybe we say, you know, take a minute or a few, uh, to think about and share.

If there were a piece of advice you have to, someone out there, someone who has a challenge that they have endured, they're overcoming someone that wants to create an exciting future. Any piece of advice, any one specific piece of advice you'd love to offer. We'd love

How can you begin to ask the questions of what teaching does our entire. World need today that can be taught as a result of what you were going through with your own suffering. Because I think right there in that space is the place where your suffering becomes shared, not where you feel alone, because it's easy to get sucked inward on suffering and want to, you know, become reclusive and, and cover up and become dark in his, stay in the darkness. But we need that suffering.

We need you to share that story because when we, when your story becomes. That's a part of my story. Energetically creates light for the rest of us to begin to find more, hope, more joy, more life, and we get to surround you with that. So, um, it's really about just how can you integrate your suffering into life so that we may be able to see the light in you through it.

If they want to find you on any social media or website, how do people

Uh, Facebook, I got a page, their Instagram, all those things less is more all with one S I had to adopt the affirmation of less is more to overcome being less in my life.