Hello, my name is Holly Owens and welcome to Ed up edtech the podcast that keeps you. In the know about all the latest edtech happenings. We interview guests from around the globe to give you deeper insights into the Ed tech industry, the field of instructional design, and more, we're proudly a part of America's leading podcast Network the Ed up, experience. It's time to sit back and enjoy. Enjoy the latest episode of Ed up attack.
Hello and welcome to the first collaborative podcast of the Ed up, AI podcast and the Ed up. Ed Tech podcast with Holly Owens. And our guest today that we're going to be talking to and interviewing and learning everything about in terms of AI and everything else is Eric. James Stevens. Iarc welcome. Thank you, both, for having me here. I am very excited to have this conversation with you because this is just cool stuff. Absolutely, it's going to be
fun. I'm super Sighted. And I can jump in with the first question Eric and you can feel free to address it how you want and work in what you're doing right now and everything else. Cuz I know that right now, you have your own daily job that you're doing full time and then you're also starting something and are and an entrepreneur for rhizome. So how would you describe what you're doing at your they job with AI and then also with that other projects, okay? I like that question the job
that I have. Now, I'm a business intelligence developer working with power bi. And so this is a company that construction company that's been around for over 100 years but now they're asking themselves, like, what can we learn from our data? And that's where I love to be in. Love to work is figuring out complex problems. What's that? A lot of fun? I've had chat gbt open the whole time asking like what does this mean in this environment or I used? Do this at Tableau.
How do I do it? Power bi. And it will tell me the different calculations that I need. It's been a lot of fun, but that's not why we're here, we're here because we're talking about Ai and star. I am working on the sting of called project rise up and I am building an AI powered teaching. I believe that one of the biggest things that teachers need back in their lives is time and one of the biggest time constraints that they have is the S of grading writing
specifically. I want to be able to create something that helps teachers. Do that task better and faster. In a way that students also learn how to write better than they are right now as someone who has been thinking about and writing about the ethical use of Big Data. Since 2016, I feel like I I cannot. Watch someone else build something.
And then critique it, if I was an academic, that still what I would be doing is I wouldn't have a saying but now that I know how to do data and now that I know about these different things I want to be able to be the one to build it to be able to say, hey let's bring in a variety of people. Let's do these different things. At this first phase of product, rhizome that were talking about is a Grassroots data collection
for student essays. I want to create an AI that can Assess student writing, I fundamentally, I'm against using data that's been scraped or bopped from the web or from a University universities can sell writing from their students. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think people know a lot about that, they don't assume that and that's totally true. That's definitely a need to know. It is idea who owns an essay, so I believe that the person who wrote it, owns it and I want to
collect it from them. I applied to this idea, accelerator called Builders and backers, and they're being funded by Heartland forward. Either be amazing people. Take you so much all those people, but they gave me five thousand dollars in order to conduct an experiment. Other people are hiring coders to build things or their bill buying product. I wanted to give that five thousand dollars away. I'm giving away five thousand dollars to ten different people, 10 people get 500 bucks.
I already gave away one person hurting semper, she's awesome. Gave her 500 bucks last weekend and this weekend I'm giving away to someone else $500. I am asking people to post about it. I'm trying to share it. I'd convinced my kids to pass out flyers with me. Last night, I went over to, I went to the University of Tulsa and we did break into library, but we found somebody to let us
into the library. We just surpassed out flyers to people because I want this aai and not be an individual person building, it has to be a collaboration and it has to be done on ethically sourced data and that's what I wanted. Well, this sounds amazing. I'm so glad that were partnering for this episode because this is totally Ed up at Tech jam without Eric this journey, I know you boast three episodes and then add as they'll walk. But now I'd it's back up and
going I can't not. Isn't that what we talked about when we were talking with Linda? E is how that's how it works though. You stop it and then you go back to and you go back to the drawing board. So we're glad you're back. You're back at this spot here. Tell us about more about what people can do to help you
collect this data. The you mentioned, the 5,000, and the 500. And obviously, we'll put everything in the show notes if you're interested in contributing to Eric and the data that he is collecting. So, tell us a little bit more about that situation right now. There are really Things that people can do to really help build one is the actual like helping collection of essays. So if you have essays submit them and I'm not I don't just
need them from current students. I'm about to get my perspective on my dissertation. Exactly. So it's between 3 and 15 pages, right? But it could be for any discipline, right? Because and the reason that it's called rise own as this is because I believe like writing is a rhizomatic thing. A rhizome is something that grows nebula. Ashley, there's no single point of origin. Writing has no single point of origin.
There is an every discipline is infested with this writing thing, any writing from any class. I will take because I believe fundamentally that what makes a good transition in a history class is a good transition in a biology class, anybody who's selling something otherwise is selling you something. That was fun of it. But so there's the one there's actually like collecting data or
collecting assays. I'm a this I'm hoping to graduate students are hearing me well, except their writing and I'll accept their students writing. They have the other thing is that I'm collaborating with the Ed up experience as a whole with joy Holden and we're doing a state of student writing survey where professionals like yourselves education leaders teachers can go out and share their opinions about what they feel on the state of Writing.
We're going to take those results, are going to publish a white paper and that's going to be fun. The Third Way that people can help is by signing up to learn more. This next phase right now is phase one that's getting my data base to is training my data. Now I'm going to be sitting by myself, reading whole bunch of sentences and Grading and training an algorithm about how would Eric rate of paper. Or I'm not even going to find a
team of five people. And I'm so we could say like, how would this group of five people read these essays? I'm going to use a crowdsource model where people can log-in. I could vet there, I can make sure they have credentials and they should be assessing essays. And then I'll give them, they'll be able to enter into this platform and be able to help me train my sentences. I'll give them a sentence. I'll ask them a question. Be like, Mark, this? How, what do you feel about this?
And tell me why, and then my goal is essentially every single essay that I get is going to be Greg graded and red based against a rubric criteria, right? And as a as an instructor, I love that so much, right? And he singled I say understanding each criteria is going to be great at twice, double blind peer review. I have like, when you look at the, I'd like the question. Does this paper have a good transition?
That question is probably 15 different questions about transitions that you as an individual. Do not have the time to ask every single paper. I can train an algorithm to do that. Let's say that my Final count is 20 criteria. That means that every sentence from every submission that I get will be read 40 times. And that's the data that were feeding the, that's why is a large language model?
That's why it's big data is because we're creating metadata, my contention, is that the number one problem with all artificial intelligence at out there today is not the algorithm. It's the quality of data that they're using. That's what I want to address fundamentally. I'm going to need help creating all of that data so you can sign up and help me do that. That comes, you can create an account and Le box score boards and stuff, and that leadership boards will be fun.
Yeah, that will be fun gamified a bit. Make some competition out of it, I love it. Exactly. Not my brain is going a thousand different directions. Every time we chat, that's what happens. But that's a good thing. I'm thinking about, in terms of AI has become everybody's an expert right now, and it's very new. It's a very new frontier. So as you are embracing this entrepreneurship into the AI space, how How are you dealing with that? And like your life and
navigating? All these are people, like I know this and a eyes bad here because New York City public schools has already banned. It's not allowed there or institutions of are abandoned. How are you? Navigating that space? As you're stepping into this entrepreneur a journey I think part of it is recognizing when to step I mean in early January I was reaching out to Jason.
We were talking about fuss do a series of different things and I was like, okay this to me I was Ramping up because I like to be a voice. I like to be on the stage and I just saw exactly what you mentioned. Is that this is just going so fast and so, there's so much. You cannot be an expert. I think the only true experts on AI that exist, are the experts that were talking about AI before November 20, 20? Those are the people that we should really be thinking were attempted to.
But here's what I think, the reason that there are so many experts in AI, Is because so many experts exist, an AI just makes an expert better. A lawyer, who knows how to use chat, GPT is not really going to do well, teaching a marketing person or marketer how to use chat CPT for her skills. Right? A car mechanic is going to use chap TP differently than a doctor. But the point is it that this is The Equalizer. We are giving everybody Access to information at your
fingertips. As rather than going in trying to compete, what everybody else is doing, I just want to go and support what everybody else is doing knowing confidently. That there is no one else that is going to build what I'm building is everybody else is worrying about algorithms and I'm focusing on data. That's awesome and I don't know I want to ask this question. Algorithms are so important especially on social media sites. I'm going to hold back on that one real quick.
I'll let Jason Jump in, I'm going to hold back on the algorithm question, the vs the data. So Jason, you'd pop in here. I definitely want to come to that and there are go with dings. So as you were talking Eric, I had these clusters in my mind that I was creating as you were walking you through. Through a project rhizome is actually doing the first cluster is how your project is a microcosm.
In many ways of a lot of the issues and concerns and Concepts that were thinking about with a. I when we think about transparency and ethics and who is managing knowledge bases. If we go into chat gvt, sometimes it's really hard to figure out where that knowledge is coming. In from and who's controlling that data or sourcing that data, I think you got to change as we go forward.
But it's always been a question built into the use of AI and the other concept that you brought out is you're talking about project. Rhizome is social building, right? And really creating in public and using people, and I think associated with that connected to that is this question of what happens to the expert.
But in the age of a, I think there's a lot of anxiety about that and I was literally reading a book titled, the new laws of robotics by Frank Pasquale, and that's what he talks about. His argument is actually that AI makes the expert more valuable, but actually gives them more value, socially culturally, and hopefully economically. That's one of the con clusters that I started to create out of your talking, the other Idea that you brought up, which really spoke to me.
Personally, I know, Holly is someone who teaches all the time, just like Lee spoke to you, too. It's just how much time you can save and how you can repurpose or time to do, very high impact things. For my perspective, that is fundamentally true. It used to take me four hours to create a personalized rubric for class. It now takes me four minutes. It's it. You turn take me and I minute of it. Yeah. 15 minutes to write student feedback and everything else.
It now takes me about a minute and a half, right? Editing, a podcast. Used to take me two hours. It now takes me eight minutes. That's like that were, that's what we're talking about. That's why we're talking about the level of time-saving. And so, a project, like project rhizome, at least for me is a model. Others can use for how you can ethically sourced data and be transparent about where it's coming from and all of that.
I want to follow this up with a question about project dry Zone and I think it's connected to a lot of those Concepts that you brought up, but then also your focus on assessment. So how personalizable is it? Because you mentioned using data from different disciplines different levels. So is their way, the project rhizome.
Um would be targeting that feedback for a student of a particular skill level say, they're still struggling with something, it's not a student who's say a freshman in college versus a senior in college. Is that feedback tailored or how it was that working in terms of your individual project? Yeah. So I'll say this, one thing to, I think that the way that you described How you heard these
different themes. And talking about clustering is exactly why artificial intelligence is intelligence and human life. Because that is what artificial intelligence does. It looks at a whole bunch of content and then it clusters it by topic and then predicts based on that clustering, what it should say that is the exact same thought process it. That is why it's called a neural network. It's mimicking neurons and so that's just a really cool thing for me.
I'm glad that you did that to address your question, one of the data points. That I'm collecting is the level. So I'm accepting writing from any discipline when a user goes in and submits their writing I'm asking them a whole bunch of questions about their writing so that I can then tabulated that and find Trends and patterns later. So one of those questions is what is the name of the class? Is this, a history class is a biology class that kind of thing?
The other one is at what level is it is. I'm accepting 9th grade writing through doctoral level writing, like through post-grad because So I believe this fundamentally that the core principles of a writing class and a postdoc is the exact same lesson plan. You're going to get in 9th grade. They're the same thing just the complexity changes but the core principles are what writing is
stays the same? That's why writing is a meta discipline when we get to phase 3 or 4 when we get to the stage of developing the personalized feedback and probably tapping some like other large language models. Do that makes it sound better like chatty PT or something. But being able to say, okay, like what, how would you model this feedback if the student was in ninth grade versus in postdoctoral? They might be a bike, not be able to bit more short with them, over to the point.
The, because we're collecting this data about the writing itself, will be able to find patterns, we will be able to bike me said before, ask AI to see what clusters exist. So that we may not see right there may be other clusters or themes and what I said but we didn't see them because we're not artificial intelligent and looking at everything over time. That's why Collecting the data is so important.
One of the largest data models are one of the largest data sets that a lot of these large language models are being trained on are from high school essays written for the SATs, you can actually go and find a spout database of twelve to fourteen thousand student, written essays by the reason chat T.T like gives you a standard five paragraph essay. When you just type in a regular question is because it was trained. On high school, 5, paragraph
essays. And they were being trained and graded by people who preferred long-winded writing. So the reason chat Jiggy T is for boasts, is because of the data and the metadata about it. I don't believe this might be getting on a tangent now. Right? I don't think that the solution to our problems is to embed English 101 into a biology class.
I don't think English 101, is a good practice of writing because when you get to the business world, you're taught how to be more concise like you're taught to be using. What's called plain language, right? So there's the Obama passed, the plain language act 2010. That's what I want to embed, right? I was talking to people who teaching mbas and they say one of their biggest things that teaching their students, how to write less be more concise, tours, it better.
And that's what how we train chat, Chiquitita, better Outlook to make this answer shorter. It's like when off on a big tangent there but your answer to that question. Bay's two or three there's going to be that personalized level of feedback based on a discipline and based on level. But rather than Starting with that discipline or that level and saying this is how each sound.
We're asking the data first how it should sound, so reacting to the data and not coming in with our own biases and begin. And I like it. So, I was going to ask, there's a lot of pushback about this, like using this AI stuff and obviously not in this room, we're all just, let's do it. Let's use it. Let's have fun with it. Let's see what we're doing. How would you approach the situation of the people who are already resisting?
This sort of situation where students writing is going to be filtered through a system and then they're going to get feedback. How would you deal with the reserve resistant? That is on the rise again. Again, with technology in this new innovation with AI in chat GPT, how would you approach that in the seat that you're in right now and deal with that? That's a loaded question.
By the way, back in the day, back in the day, couple thousand years ago, Leto was a ranting and raving right about the creation of a new technology that would ruin thinking. He was talking about the alphabet. Every single time, something new happens. People will not like it and they'll disagree with it. And I think that has far more to do with one's experience in life and where they are in life and how much they're willing to learn something new versus not new.
That determines that. So when I encounter someone who's I'm not gonna do that, my response is okay. I'll see you in five years. When you shout like, they're gonna, I know that because I have already seen this actively happening where I have a friend, he's a CEO of a company and he hires people, and before he would hire a teachers to create content for him now, he hires one teacher that uses chat GPT
to create content for him. The people who are saying this is not something I need to worry about. Do not understand how fundamentally intertwined their lives, already are with AI and how they are going to be intertwined with a, I just in the product of sweets with Microsoft and Google that now hat, their copilot, and they're barred embedded in. Whatever we got, call it you cannot Escape it and if you're actively resisting it, You are actively putting yourself at risk.
I am a huge fan like you need to be an early adopter. If only to be asking those heart, ethical questions to be getting. So you're not dealing with changing a procedures. Number of be the one to
implement the change. Not the one that has to deal with someone else, child me to change and so I guess that I think there's always reason to be cautious, but I think that we're all good crap that we talk about our age demographic of everything that we've I've lived through like we can go through a lot like Wars and teres attachment so many things. Holy moly. We are living through a modern
Industrial Revolution that is happening. 10 times as fast where you can see daily change instead of monthly or yearly change, we're going to seize bit out of like an update. You don't have to say, it's got to be in the SAS and it's got a spit out an update. Yeah, it's instantaneous. I think that there is going to be amazing things that happen. I believe that artificial intelligence will be the introduction of a permanent four-day work week.
Like we like artificial intelligence will show us that working 40 hours a week is no longer required and we can have more Leisure Time and happiness. There's a lot of good have going to come out. I really do and we can go dystopia if you want to and it's gonna get there but also man, it's beautiful. I used to brought up so much Eric that I want to talk about the first is your point which I think is so pivotal for the higher ed sector. It's that AI has been around for a long for a while.
This kind of tech has been around, will really change with Shao. Qi, PT, is that it was pushed into the public imagination and the ux was made so much more accessible. That's the big thing. That Chad, TBT did creating the chat function. So it was almost About the you. That's design of it, then the actual Tech and it's so worked into our lives. And so are going to it that we almost. And even notice there are a lot of us, don't even notice it was
happening. Then the other thing you brought up and seemed to suggest was that Tech like chat? Gbt is the tip of the iceberg. He's our a just early moved. So I like to think about what people might think, 50 years from now. And one of the The things I think that they will do is 50 years from now. Children are going to be in school and they're finished. Show them chat GPT and they're going to be horrified about how bad it is. How awful a product that is?
Instead Altman is also talked about this by the way. He said that. Just so you know, she actually be cheeps kind of awful as a user experience. It's down all the time you have to. Now spend all of these hours figuring out how to use it and super it Hank. He's less example Sager. This is awful Prada but it really gave us something that we can play with and I think that 50 years from now.
It's good. Hey guys going to be so much more advanced in terms of being user friendly so you won't have to as a lot of us. Did I did spend weeks really play with it to be like oh I gotta use it now and I just going to continue to advance and it's advancing every day and I want to follow it up with a question Eric. That's Nected to that and you mentioned and I think you're absolutely right. That AI is an industrial revolution. That's changing every day every
week. How do you stay on top of it. What do you follow? What do you look at? How do you feel like you're at least abreast of what's Happening? I'll say that. I don't feel like I am because just like you said, because Chance CPT is such an easy user interface. And because anybody can access it using their own expertise, there are just dozens of applications that I'm seeing
every day. I love watching tic toc like a lot of the idea generation that I get is from other people who get on and share, what they're doing. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, I'm constantly scouring. The news is social media, like I consume a lot of information from a variety of different resources and so I think that helps it A lot, I'm a big fan of the content just in Feinberg I think his name is and Rachel Woods on Tick-Tock specifically
the AI exchange newsletter. I think is like the go-to place to get information. I also have a really good friend of mine, his name is Ben but we talk about data. He's the one that helped me with my dissertation research. During use the data scientist that I collaborated, with me and Katie. So, I don't know if that was like a I think the answer to your questions can be applicable for the people who are listening.
Is that the best thing to do is to start listening and to start playing, don't ignore those articles that you're seeing and seeing that it's everywhere. Go and see it and then go and sit, down and chat gbt and try it. at work that I have like my full-time gig that I have, its I love being able to show people face-to-face, what this technology can do and just watch the AA happen, then have them come up to me, like my boss asked about, can you make me limerick about a leprechaun who
wants raisins? It is, carrot cake, and I was like, that's what it takes to make you happy, man. Yes, I will. I get a raise after that. Yeah. And then like, I had rigged The Vaping. Yeah, of course, my friends quitting her job and she's write a resignation letter Indiana's like a zoo were on it already. Boom. Boom, let me email that to you like it's so much fun to see people's own curiosity and expertise emerge when they use it themselves and just to see bike.
How Just imagine how much more creative and beautiful things are going to be. Because we have the ability that someone who I don't consider myself artistic, can go and make something beautiful. I think that's, I think that's amazing. And I love it that you say, you have to go, you have to play with it. I feel like people be before they write it off. That's the thing you need to do is just go play with it and ask it. Like you're you're seriously like just typing in a question or two.
We need to do something. It's what we do every day owner and if the computer you're telling it to do things that you needed to do, so it's mimicking what we're already doing. So it shouldn't be scary for people so I want to know what are you like currently besides writing limericks and things and resignation letters. What are you currently playing
with right now? In Ai and he like test cases things that you want to share with the audience that you're working on. I think we should all share like how we're were using this tool in our lives. For me, I'm I'm trying to build a tech company in the leanest way possible and so when I had questions I'm like I'm pretty good at generating content, what I'm bad at is formal writing and formal things I need to do, right? So what I can do is I want to thank that with all of your
education and your background. Did he really do? It doesn't mean anything. That's the thing, that's the key there is I It's not how to do it and put it out there, but the think the path at the passions, are I feel like that about some scholar like scholarly writing is like that a lot. It's force a bit, not your choice on that.
I think that being able to have an expert being able to pay chat gbt, I know you're not a lawyer, you can get around it, but hey, I have an appointment, my lawyer next week, but I have a question in the meantime. That's a really great way to get around their caveat is that they give you So I have, what do I do here? What does this mean? And then it explains it to me. I'm working in the construction
industry. I have no idea how to build a building or what people use for different terms when they're I had. No, I'm looking at accounting data. I've never worked at accounts payable before. I've never done that. I have Chachi PTO bananas, say hey what does this mean? Or someone just said this in this context, what should I do? As someone who is neurodivergent and I have a bipolar disorder and I love, I can be overwhelming. Yes, my enthusiasm is wonderful for a podcast at work.
I can be an overwhelming person. This lets me control that insatiable curiosity. I think the more you recognize that it's not a Google search where you put something in and you get a final output that you are talking to someone. It's a Chat, you refine the conversation. You can't go up to a stranger and give them a command. As they write me a press release for this. They're going to turn around be like, what the fuck are you talking about? No, you turn around to like,
hey, how's it going? This is me. You introduce yourself, but you give context the more you treat artificial intelligence as its own actor. The better can't the better. You're going to get the outputs are going to get sorry. There are score. Well bleep that out. If I think they might like it adds emphasis, I don't know. I've no actress and leaving that out. I'm Gonna Keep it anymore.
I'm not gonna find a an anchor. I probably have to put the explicitly, molar, whatever, or I will track it and got me down, who knows? And I love merits of your idea. I love your idea of using AI as a tutor, one of the things that has happened to me and I know this must sound meta is, AI has allowed me to get into AI. There are all these Concepts out there that as I read and look at everything on social media and learn and I follow Justin Feinberg.
If follow Rachel, would I learn a lot from them and every once in a while up, Curious about something. And in the past 10 years ago I would have written a noted a notebook somewhere. Sometimes I'd look it up, sometimes I wouldn't. Now what I do is I take my device, I go immediately to poet is my go-to right now because it's a very, it's a very easy way to have everything in one spot and I'll ask it to teach me.
So I was reading the other day about a i in ground truth it was just thrown out there that comes up. And so I was able to go in and use Gbt through Poe and just a skit, talk Chief me about this thing doesn't just doing web search because I was able to through the prom, be able to
tailor it to myself. I was able to say, explain to me like you would a ten-year-old and give me at least one analogy that will allow me to grasp onto it, and doing that in the past, they've been very difficult or impossible. If I looked it up at all, I would have just ended up on dictionary.com or Wikipedia, which I'm still Blown Away by how in many ways inaccessible? Wikipedia is on the level of
language. I'm constantly going in there to learn something Technical and on bombarded with technical language, even though it's recompete. Yeah, but even from there, I get lost and I don't know what to do now. It's a, I'm able to learn about Ai and so becomes a. So it allows me to get into discipline actually learn what I'm talking about in a little was going on. No. I so I was sitting down with my brother and he is he's getting real like next week actually sitting down for his PMP exam.
And so and we were like he was telling me about like way that he's used it before and like he's just like trying to figure out like how he can go and prepare for his exam. He's also sharing with me that the way he likes to learn because you like that. So you can tailor, I like to learn by a now, they give me some analogies the way the he likes to learn is hey, here's this real world application and I have, how can I apply it? So it's like just like We're just like on the cuff. Right?
And I was like, what if you were to go in a chat GPT and say, hey, I am taking an exam and two weeks here are some specific and you give them like the specific scenario that you're at work. That's a real life example. And then you say using the PMP guide, create questions for me, that helps me study, that will help me understand this thing at work.
Easy peasy. As soon as you realize that it's Not just like accessing information but it's asking it to combine and synthesize information for you, it's really beautiful. What you can do it. I know how to say this, exactly. But I have been pulled into this thing. That is data and language. I have been steeping in data and language or It's it was in 2014 when I first decided that my methodology for my dissertation
was would be big data analysis. And I've been thinking about ethics of it since then I've been thinking about what I would do and I was at Justin thinking and thinking and it is was with the Advent like the reason that Things fall off last year,
right? For a lot of different reasons but the reason it's being picked up right now is because I was able to see what other people were able to do with technology and that's what I hope that people walk away from this whole conversation is to go in and don't feel like you're being behind. Don't feel like you're behind because you're already. Behind right? That's like trying to say I'm behind in biology. Of course, I am in cellular biology since the 10th grade.
Why would I be on top of biology? You're gonna be behind. The best thing that you can do is just be utterly amazed about what other people are doing and using that to inspire yourself. Like I did, we're not for me. It wasn't. Oh, I can write this prompt there with me. I can go start this company. I know how to do it and know what I need to do. And I am in power bi artificial intelligence to do it.
That's yeah, absolutely. And I want to talk about from the ID perspective, the instructional designer perspective, how much time this saves using Chad GPT or other AI to write outlines or just get an idea of a storyboard because we spend so much time conceptualizing based off the content that the sneeze give us how this is all going to flow. They'll give us a PowerPoint but that's not necessarily in The Logical order or the order should be in for learning.
And so I use chat dtp a lot just to outline stuff and I know people say that and it helps so much. It just gives you like a sense of relief that you don't have to go through this super critical process. You can refocus your efforts on the creative side of instructional design, and developing the interactive's and things. But with the Learners to behavioral changes and the assessments that are needed to
exhibit that. So from an instructional designer perspective, this is something that I can't wait until people. We start incorporating These inter tools Microsoft is putting in the tools like they're articulates and the Dobies of the world start putting these into the tools to make it so much more manageable and I feel like we're going to level up as humans with a I like we're already doing it. We're going to just we're going to think more critically on higher levels because of this.
So here is in my mind, a reality that will happen once the hardware patches up or if once things are catching up and this is what this is, what makes it so scary, right? That people have peed like a eyes, it would come and replace my job is because you have people like me thinking like this. And here's what people need to do is like you should be asking these questions. You should be the ones, implementing these things in your organization, because here's what's going to happen in
five years. Right? A company is going to have Artificial intelligence connected it to its entire knowledge base. You're gonna have a new hire come in and say hey this is how I like to learn. You even need an instructional designer anymore say, I like, to learn this way. Can you teach me about this process? And now you have an interactive instructional designer that will answer your questions. Personalized based on the knowledge base from the company, based on how you like to learn.
If you like to learn via problems are you like to learn via funny videos? But you can say, make me a funny video starring Bruce Willis that Has me about this principle. That's there. All the pieces are there and that's what everybody's going to be think. That's when 50 years from now. They're going to be looking back and thinking like wow, Josh apt for.
What is that? Just like my kid is going to look at like the Motorola 120 e, razor fall off your bike with peanut phone that up. It was really fancy to that of blue screen instead of a green screen. Yeah. Anyway, it's just so much fun stuff out there and I hope that people are not intimidated by it, and they feel excited about it because you should be agreed.
Yeah. And I think that, and you mentioned this before, and it there are just around 40 minutes Arc. I do want to on your time, and I know that you have to go, Holly have to go play with it, right? If you're out there, you're higher ed or any field, really? If you're concerned, if you're worried that is okay, those are emotionally valid responses. Make sure you get in and you really play with it. And I'll be totally honest, or I'm emotionally, I have good days, I have bad days with a, i
Some days. I think, yes, this is going to allow me to do X, Y, and Z faster better. So on and so forth. And other days, I'm very negative about it and I go back and forth and I've learned to be emotionally, okay, with that, depending on my own State, what I'm working with, I think that for a lot of Educators, we need to do, we need to do our due diligence, which means playing with it, playing with the software, really reflecting on it and being okay with not feeling, totally, consistent
emotionally, Lee with the tag. I think that a lot of people are there, and it's okay to be there too. All right. And I, so I do want to honor your time. Eric. So, very last question, if someone listening to this episode wants to talk to, you wants to have a conversation or reach out to you for any reason, I should they put 100% LinkedIn is where I live by. You could also check out the project, its www, dot project, rhizome.com, and you can get a whole bunch of stuff there too. Fantastic.
I love it. I'm so glad you came back to this. I'm so glad you came back to this. I am very grateful for the two of you truly or not only having this conversation at being able to promote and all that kind of stuff. But I think like it is this community that we built on LinkedIn over the past year or two years, whatever that I'm
just very grateful for. And I don't think that I could have approached the problem that I am trying to approach if it were not for the constant, iterative reactions and refining of ideas with people, that would not give you. So again, I'm just very grateful, thank you, both for doing absolutely anytime. Okay, you're so welcome. And thank you so much our for coming on the show. Coming on the first joint podcast and good luck with
everything. And it's been a pleasure hear you talk with a. I Thank you so much. You've just experienced an another amazing episode of Ed up. Ed Tech. Be sure to visit our website at Ed up, edtech.com to get all the updates on the latest edtech happening. See you next time.