The Education Gadfly Show - podcast cover

The Education Gadfly Show

Thomas B. Fordham Institutefordhaminstitute.org

For more than 15 years, the Fordham Institute has been hosting a weekly podcast, The Education Gadfly Show. Each week, you’ll get lively, entertaining discussions of recent education news, usually featuring Fordham’s Mike Petrilli and David Griffith. Then the wise Amber Northern will recap a recent research study. For questions or comments on the podcast, contact its producer, Stephanie Distler, at sdistler@fordhaminstitute.org.

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Episodes

TFA, Gen-Z, and AI | Episode 989 of The Education Gadfly Show

This week, Aneesh Sohoni, CEO of Teach for America, joins The Education Gadfly Show to discuss TFA’s impact in the classroom and beyond, why teaching is a compelling opportunity for Gen Z college graduates, what corps members are saying about AI in the classroom. Then, on a special Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares findings from Who’s on Board? School Boards and Political Representation in an Age of Conflict , Fordham’s brand new report by David Houston and Michael Hartney surveying school boar...

Oct 08, 202535 minEp. 989

Beyond test scores: Debating how to measure school quality | Episode 988 of The Education Gadfly Show

This week, Fordham’s president emeritus Checker Finn and Laura Hamilton of the Center for Assessment join us for a polite debate on whether school quality should be judged by more than test scores. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner unpacks a massive study of ten million students that tracks how gender gaps in math and reading develop from kindergarten through fifth grade—and what that means for the narrative about boys and school. Recommended content The mixed blessing of new school measures — ...

Oct 01, 202532 minEp. 988

Joyful classrooms, but zero public transparency: Inside an ESA micro-school | Episode 987 of The Education Gadfly Show

This week, Chandler Fritz, author of Harper’s Magazine’s cover story The Homemade Scholar , shares what he discovered when teaching in an ESA-funded micro-school—including a lackluster curriculum but undeniably joyful kids. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner unpacks California’s big school-spending surge—showing that despite major funding increases, starting teacher pay hasn’t risen and staffing levels have barely changed. Recommended content The Homemade Scholar — Chandler Fritz, Harper’s Magaz...

Sep 24, 202540 minEp. 987

On the negative NAEP news, and the real reason screen time is hurting student learning | Episode 986 of The Education Gadfly Show

This week, Mike Petrilli digs into the latest NAEP results—and explores whether the rise of smartphones and social media might help explain them. It’s another solo episode, just Mike and the mic. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares a new REACH study showing that school voucher programs have boosted private school enrollment by just 3 percent so far—but are already putting upward pressure on tuition. Recommended content The Best Takes on the Worst NAEP Scores Ever — Michael J. Petrilli, SCH...

Sep 17, 202532 minEp. 986

School choice, regulation, and Democrats’ defense of public schools, with Ashley Jochim | Episode 985 of The Education Gadfly Show

Ashley Jochim, principal at the Center on Reinventing Public Education and mom of four, joins Mike Petrilli and David Griffith on the Education Gadfly Show to continue our debate on private school choice and regulation. She also discusses how Democrats’ defense of public schools often clashes with families’ real experiences, and why clear, consumer-facing information is essential to making choice work. On the Research Minute, Adam Tyner highlights a new NBER study from Chicago showing that givin...

Sep 10, 202539 minEp. 985

Innovation, regulation, and school choice, with Mike McShane | Episode 984 of The Education Gadfly Show

Mike McShane, Director of National Research for EdChoice, joins us on the Education Gadfly Show to debate tradeoffs when it comes to regulation and innovation in the charter school and private school choice sectors. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam Tyner shares a report from the Urban Institute looking at college and career indicators and how they relate to research on post-high school outcomes. Recommended content: On school choice: Overregulated charter schools: Fact or fiction? — Michael J....

Sep 03, 202539 min

Managing district budgets during uncertain times, with Jonathan Travers | Episode 983 of The Education Gadfly Show

ERS president and managing partner Jonathan Travers joins Mike Petrilli on The Education Gadfly Show to talk about school district budgeting during uncertain times. Then, on the Research Minute , Adam Tyner shares a new report from the National Council on Teacher Quality looking at district policies on pay bumps for teachers with master’s degrees, and how the money could be better spent. Recommended content: The degree dilemma: School districts spend millions on ineffective master’s degree premi...

Aug 27, 202534 minEp. 983

Should all state-funded schools take state standardized tests? | Episode 982 of The Education Gadfly Show

On this week’s solo episode, Mike shares his thoughts on whether it’s ever okay to let schools opt out of state standardized tests and use nationally normed assessments instead. Then, on a special Research Minute , Fordham’s own Adam Tyner and David Griffith share results from their brand new report about the pressure on teachers to give higher grades in the name of equity. Recommended content: Welcome to Lake Wobegon, Oklahoma — Michael J. Petrilli, Thomas B. Fordham Institute When private scho...

Aug 20, 202534 minEp. 982

Education policy and climate change | Episode 981 of The Education Gadfly Show

This week, Matthew Kraft, professor of education and economics at Brown University, joins The Education Gadfly Show to discuss the intersection of education policy and climate change. Then, on the Research Minute , Adam Tyner examines whether an elite “exam school” led to better educational outcomes for its students. Recommended content: On education and climate change Education and climate change: Synthesizing the evidence to guide future research — Matthew Kraft, Sohil Malik, and Grace Falken,...

Aug 13, 202541 minEp. 981

#980: Can education reform help Democrats win again? with Ben Austin

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Ben Austin, Founding Director of Education Civil Rights Now , joins us to discuss why the Democratic Party lost its way on education policy—and what it must do to rebuild credibility and improve its chances in national elections. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam shares a new study on state takeovers of school districts, examining who benefits and how these interventions impact district finances. Recommended content: “ Democrats have lost their way on educa...

Aug 06, 202533 minEp. 980

#979: Is too much democracy hamstringing our schools? with Vlad Kogan

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Vlad Kogan—professor and director of undergraduate studies at The Ohio State University—joins us to discuss his forthcoming book, No Adult Left Behind: How Politics Hijacks Education Policy and Hurts Kids (out August 21). Then, on the Research Minute, Adam highlights new findings from the National Bureau of Economic Research on the long-term benefits of participation in scholastic sports. Recommended content: “ No Adult Left Behind: How Politics Hijacks Educ...

Jul 30, 202531 minEp. 979

#978: Mike on the mic: Regulation in school choice programs

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Mike returns for another solo episode, reflecting on the role of regulation in school choice—is it stifling innovation or saving us from bad schools? Then, on the Research Minute, Adam covers a study looking at the relationship between timed math testing and anxiety among fourth- and fifth-grade students. Recommended content: “ Democrats’ School Choice Dilemma ” — Michael J. Petrilli, for the Wall Street Journal “ Seizing educational dynamism ” — Stéphane La...

Jul 23, 202536 min

#977: New law, new questions for school choice, with Brian Jodice

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show, Brian Jodice, National Press Secretary for the American Federation for Children joins us for a lively debate on the federal school choice provision embedded in the newly enacted “One Big Beautiful Bill”—including its potential impact in blue states. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam reviews a new Education Next study showing that a low-cost college-planning course can boost success for high-achieving, low-income students. Recommended content: “ Democrats’ S...

Jul 16, 202536 minEp. 977

#976: A new hub for smarter education policy, with Doug Harris

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Doug Harris, director of the National Center for Research on Education Access and Choice (REACH), joins us to discuss a new website aimed at advancing evidence-based education policy and supporting more effective decision-making in schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Meredith Coffey examines new data from Massachusetts that reveal lasting post-pandemic shifts in school enrollment, particularly in the middle grades and in higher-income districts. R...

Jul 09, 202540 min

#975: Mike on the mic: On “discrimination” and demagoguery

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Mike flies solo to reflect on what’s happening across the education reform landscape—from the private school choice debate to the question of whether education reform has successfully scaled. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam shares a study examining four-day school weeks and their (paltry) impact on teacher recruitment and retention. Recommended content: “ Maine Case Opens New Battleground for School Choice: The Right to Discriminate ” —Linda Jacob...

Jun 25, 202535 minEp. 975

#974: The Risks of the Educational Choice for Children Act, with Jon Valant

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Jon Valant —director of the Brown Center on Education Policy and a senior fellow in Governance Studies at Brookings—joins Mike to discuss his recent analysis of the federal tax credit scholarship initiative included in the Republican budget bill and its potential to open the door to waste, fraud, and discriminatory practices. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam shares a Belgian study comparing the cognitive and non-cognitive effects of work-based lear...

Jun 18, 202531 minEp. 974

#973: Debunking the teacher experience myth, with Linda Darling-Hammond and Anne Podolsky

Linda Darling-Hammond and Anne Podolsky discuss their research challenging the conventional wisdom that teacher effectiveness plateaus after five years, presenting evidence that teachers continue to improve, especially in supportive environments. The episode then features Adam's Research Minute, which analyzes school board elections across 16 states, highlighting issues of uncontested races, high incumbent turnover, and a disconnect between school performance and electoral outcomes, leading to a critique of local democratic control in education.

Jun 11, 202527 minEp. 973

#972: Indiana’s charter strategy: A red-state roadmap? with Brandon Brown

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Brandon Brown, CEO of The Mind Trust, joins Mike to explain why charter school advocates keep winning in red states—and how others might follow Indiana’s lead. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam shares a new study documenting the sharp rise in teacher absences post-pandemic—and why it matters for schools and students. Recommended content: “ Charter school advocates keep winning—at least in red states ” —Brandon Brown, CEO of The Mind Trust, for Thoma...

Jun 04, 202528 minEp. 972

#971: A “Quality Check” on school accountability, with Tom Toch and Lynn Olson

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Tom Toch, director of FutureEd, and Lynn Olson, former deputy director at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, join Mike and David to discuss Lynn’s new paper, “Quality Check: The New, Best Way to Measure School Performance.” Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares a study on the economic effects of Universal Pre-Kindergarten programs, showing that UPK boosted workforce participation across nine states and cities. Recommended content: “ Quality ...

May 28, 202541 minEp. 971

#970: Big moves in the Lone Star state: ESAs come to Texas, with Genevieve Collins

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Genevieve Collins, Texas State Director for Americans for Prosperity, joins us to discuss Texas’s newly passed Education Savings Account bill—an ambitious policy that could position the Lone Star State as a national leader in school choice. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber highlights a Michigan study showing that simply being flagged for third-grade retention can boost students’ reading scores—even if they aren’t actually held back. Recommended co...

May 21, 202532 minEp. 970

#969: Charters, church, and the Court with Starlee Coleman

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Starlee Coleman, president and CEO of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools, joins Mike and David to discuss the religious charter schools case currently before the U. S. Supreme Court. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares a study out of Dallas on whether an automatic Algebra enrollment policy boosted participation among underserved students. Recommended content: “ SCOTUS should mandate state support for religious education, but not ...

May 14, 202536 minEp. 969

#968: Are school inspections the accountability tool we’ve overlooked? with Erik Robelen

#968: Are school inspections the accountability tool we’ve overlooked? with Erik Robelen On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, former Education Week reporter Erik Robelen joins Mike and David to discuss school inspections—what they are, how they might fit into accountability systems, and who’s actually using them in U.S. schools. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber highlights a study on how AI tools can help middle school math teachers personalize their lessons. Recommended content: Erik...

May 07, 202535 minEp. 968

#967: Mississippi’s secret? Twenty years of persistence and progress, with Rachel Canter

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Rachel Canter, the founding executive director of Mississippi First and the new director of education policy at the Progressive Policy Institute, joins Mike and David to discuss what really fueled Mississippi’s dramatic gains in student achievement. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reports on a new study examining the impact of Ohio’s EdChoice voucher program on college enrollment and graduation rates. Recommended content: Rachel Canter, The Truth...

Apr 30, 202539 minEp. 967

#966: Is calculus king? Rethinking math pathways, with Matt Giani

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Matt Giani, professor and researcher at the University of Texas at Austin, joins Mike and David to discuss whether there’s a one-size-fits-all math pathway for students, as explored in Calculus or Statistics: Does It Matter? —a new study he coauthored for the Thomas B. Fordham Institute. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber shares a study that examines whether Indiana’s statewide private school voucher program has had any competitive effects on public...

Apr 23, 202535 minEp. 966

#965: Understanding ESSA Waivers, with Anne Hyslop

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Anne Hyslop, Director of Policy Development at All4Ed, joins Mike and David to discuss the evolving federal role in K–12 education—particularly how the Secretary of Education’s waiver authority may—and may not--impact state flexibility on spending and testing under ESSA (the current iteration of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act). Then, on the Research Minute, Amber reviews a new study out of Massachusetts that examines whether students in d...

Apr 16, 202539 minEp. 965

#964: Why states should keep testing, with Scott Marion

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Scott Marion, Executive Director of the Center for Assessment, joins Mike and David to discuss why states should maintain annual assessments—even if the Trump Administration waives some federal testing requirements. Then, on the Research Minute, Adam reviews a study comparing surveys and test scores as measures of school quality and predictors of long-term student success. Recommended content: The Case for State Testing , The National Center for the ...

Apr 09, 202534 minEp. 964

#963: All about the Educational Choice for Children Act, with Jim Blew

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Jim Blew, co-founder of the Defense of Freedom Institute, joins Mike and David to talk about his work on the Educational Choice for Children Act—a federal proposal that could expand educational options for families through school vouchers. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a study on how expanding broadband access for Chicago families during the pandemic benefitted high achieving students but hurt their lower-performing peers. Recommended ...

Apr 02, 202539 minEp. 963

#962: Replacing DEI with something better, with Richard Kahlenberg

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Richard Kahlenberg, author of Class Matters: The Fight to Get Beyond Race Preferences, Reduce Inequality, and Build Real Diversity at America’s Colleges , joins Mike and David to discuss how Democrats can move beyond DEI and embrace “integration, equal opportunity, and belonging.” Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a study on the relationship between standardized test scores, high school GPA, and first-year college performance at Ivy-Plus u...

Mar 26, 202537 minEp. 962

#961: How “No Excuses” charter schools went off the rails, with Steven Wilson

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Steven Wilson, senior fellow at the Pioneer Institute, joins Mike to discuss his new book The Lost Decade: Returning to the Fight for Better Schools in America , which argues that the push for so-called Antiracist education derailed reform and harmed marginalized students. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a study on how educators divide their attention during virtual tutoring—and how achievement, gender, race, and English learner status i...

Mar 19, 202537 minEp. 961

#960: Why Secretary McMahon shouldn’t waive federal testing requirements, with Charles Barone

On this week’s Education Gadfly Show podcast, Charles Barone, Senior Director of the Center for Innovation at the National Parents Union, joins Mike and David to discuss the future of federal assessment and accountability policies under the Trump Administration. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber examines a study on student loan forgiveness and its impact on work, earnings, and borrowing. Recommended content: Charles Barone, “ The Future of Assessment and Accountability | Part 1 | Goodbye Feder...

Mar 12, 202536 minEp. 960
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