implementing some of these strategies could be a game changer for many of our listeners businesses today. I'm sure everyone that either has their ecommerce brand ready to start selling, whether that's drop shipping or otherwise, they will learn the importance of email marketing. And this what we'll dive into today. Not just an E commerce, but most businesses and industries that email has the higher conversion when it comes to getting returning customers.
Because it's that ratio between how much you spend to acquire a customer and the difference between that and the lifetime value, which is where the business really lives or dies. We just doubled the value of those customers, which is, which is huge, right?
So whether you're new to e commerce and you're just starting out, or if you're already up and running, and you are looking to refine your strategies, today's discussion promises to equip you with the actionable tactics to elevate your email marketing game. Welcome to the dropship unlocked Podcast. I'm Louis Smith, the founder of dropship unlocked and with me is our Client Success
Coach James Hadley. Now, when we're not recording the podcast episodes, we're running our own e commerce businesses and helping aspiring entrepreneurs village their own high ticket dropshipping businesses keen to build your own six or even seven figure business. My book, the home turf advantage is your blueprint for launching a profitable online store. Grab your copy at HTA books.com To date, and let's get you started.
Now sit back, relax, and let's unlock your potential with the dropship unlocked podcast. Welcome to today's episode of the dropship unlocked podcast where we are thrilled to host Daniel blue dye, the founder of blue dye media and a visionary in the field of E commerce marketing. With his expertise, Daniel has transformed the email marketing strategies for a range of different businesses all the way from budding startups to lots of high ticket brands out
there. Yes, Louis. Today, Daniel will unpack the significant role of email marketing in cultivating customer relationships, and driving repeat business for your eCommerce store. So we'll delve into how strategically crafted email campaigns are not just about communication, but they're actually crucial tools for boosting the lifetime value of each customer. So that means that you can ensure that they return time and time again. Yeah, really powerful stuff had
a great conversation. So prepare to take notes today, grab a notepad and a pen. Because Daniel is going to be sharing his insights on optimizing email frequency, growing a robust email list something you're really going to want to pay attention to, and leveraging real world success stories as well, where his approaches have markedly increased the lifetime value for a lot of the clients
he's worked with. So whether you're new to ecommerce, and you're just starting out, or if you're already up and running, and you are looking to refine your strategies, today's discussion promises to equip you with the actionable tactics to elevate your email marketing game. So let's dive into it. So today we have the pleasure of speaking with Daniel BirdEye on the podcast, and he is the mind behind BirdEye media, which is a game changer in the world of E
commerce, email marketing. So Daniel, welcome to the dropship unlock podcast. It's an honor to have you on with us today. Before we dive in, could you start with a bit of an introduction and share a little bit about your journey and the mission of BirdEye media? Hey, James Santiago, and I'm glad to be here and to be invited. So basically, I run an E commerce marketing agency called Budaya media with 20 people now fully remote company and 80%. US market very focused.
The rest is mostly UK actually. And I used to be a student of geology actually, for six years, I turned into a digital marketer. Now it was around six years ago. And I started my journey as a copywriter. And slowly we became an agency I started hiring people for different roles and our core services still email marketing for E commerce. But we've been expanding our services recently and we are transitioning into more like E commerce growth
agency this year. Brilliant. Fantastic. So I think copywriting is an interesting route into email, because it plays a huge role in the emails that you write no doubt. So yeah, it's great to have you on board. I'm sure everyone that either has their ecommerce brand ready to start selling, whether that's drop shipping or otherwise, they will learn the importance of email marketing, and this is what we'll dive into
today. So Something on your website is that you're really keen in growing the lifetime value for the E commerce brands that you work with. So, first of all, LTV or lifetime value, why do you think that's such an important metric for E commerce brands to grow? Yeah, sure. So basically, our TV why it's so crucial, because I would, I would come up with two acronyms here. One is CAC, and the other one is LTV. CAC stands for customer acquisition costs.
Basically, this is what you pay, let's say, for Facebook or Google to acquire a new customer. And then you have the first purchase, which is great. And you want to make it profitable as a small business. But as you grow, you will have more and more repeat customers. And they come back and buy again and again, and you want to start tracking how much they spend during that whole life time in
the future. And as a more mature business, a bigger business, that number will be much higher than the value of your first purchase. I think the most valuable example is Starbucks. So let's say you will get a coffee that for four bucks or five bucks. And that's not your lifetime value, you will come back tomorrow, the day after tomorrow and your LTV, the value that you spend in your whole lifetime, it will be probably 10s of 1000s of dollars,
actually. So Starbucks would make a huge mistake, just to calculate only with the value of the first purchase. So I hope this is understandable why it's important. And why you don't want to just focus on the very first purchase, but the whole lifetime of the customer. So that's the concept here. Absolutely. I mean, it's completely critical. And I'm glad you brought up as well, the CAC, the CAC or the cost per acquisition for to acquire the customer.
Because it's that ratio between how much you spend to acquire a customer. And the difference between that and the lifetime value, which is where the business really lives or dies. How much do you spend to acquire a customer? And how much is that customer worth to you? is really the key to any successful business. So email then for your agency is the focus. And why do you think email is so important to increase the lifetime value for a business? Yeah,
great question. So we can see this across all ecommerce businesses and not just in E commerce. But most businesses and industries that email has the higher conversion when it comes to getting returning customers. So Facebook ads, Google Ads SEO, they agree to get new customers and with email, you couldn't do this because you need an email list first, but these channels are great to acquire new customers
new eyeballs. And once they purchase core tsuchiura retargeting ads, they, you will be on Google anytime they can find you. But still, email marketing is a very direct way to approach people send them a message, give them a solid offer, and they can click and buy from your website. So we can see that even if you retarget your traffic, your conversion will be usually less than from email. So from email traffic, we get like 1015, sometimes 20% conversion rate, which which is
which is amazing. And that's why email is just so powerful to get returning customers absolutely is huge. I'm keen to hear how you can achieve that sort of conversion rate. Is that from people that have already purchased from a business? Or is that getting somebody to purchase for the first time? Yeah, actually, I never really checked it or tracked it. So we usually send to more engaged segments. Last thing is segments and engage segment, usually customers, but not all of them.
And for most clients, conversion is like 10% of people who go to the website from the email, maybe if we check the only customers, it could be even higher X customers best customers. So it's a high number for sure. Fantastic. And I mean, being able to convert that many people that are on the break, by sending them a few emails is going to be so powerful for a business to increase their revenue, and of course, increase their profit as
well. So really diving into the results that you have seen with email. A question that comes up a lot is, well, how often should I be emailing the contacts that I have on my list? So do you think that there is like a correct best practice frequency for for how often to email the list? Yeah, that's a great question. I got this so much, actually. So I think some people they think that how often I should or should I email my subscribers, but you wish To realize that you
can segment your lists. So those people who really want to hear from you, they open each of your email, you know, like a lot of your emails, you can email them even every day, they will open it, they will buy. And those faults open only once, in every six months, you don't want to email them more than a month. So that's why segmentation is so
important. But of course, I know from workload perspective, you want to come up with a number like, okay, so still how many emails I, I need to pay, I would say, if your list is below 5k subscribers, then I think, probably like two campaigns a week, maybe even three campaigns a week, that's that's enough for a small list below 5k, you don't need too much segmentation, because the segments will be too
small. If you are, let's say, between five and 50k subscribers, I think three, four, even maybe five per week can be a right amount. And if you are beyond 50k, subscribers, then even five, so there are five a week, or even seven, so or even if you have hundreds of 1000s, done even multiple times a day to different segments, there are so many options that so yeah, the list size is the most relevant for this
pretty fantastic. So to give you some context, for the majority of listeners for this podcast, they'll probably have less than 5000 people in the customer list for the majority of these people. And we'll be selling high ticket products through our E commerce businesses, generally in the UK. And so I wanted to dig into your methods behind the
segmentation. So for a brand, if they came to you and asked for your help, that with your services for their email marketing, they have less than 5000 people in their email list. How would you start to or what sort of segments for their customer list? How would you start to put together this segmentation for these brands, there are a few obvious ones, like location can be important, especially in Europe in us
probably last. Otherwise, I would say we like segmenting based on engagement, and how recently they purchased last time. So typically, we use segments like engaged 15, engaged 30 Engaged 90, and what these means these numbers, so engage 15 means those people who open an email at least once in the past 15 days, and then we do the same for English 30, that's 30 days, English 90, it can be
in the six months as well. And we segment these people, and those who are in the English 15 These are the most engaged people, we send them much more emails, like, let's say if you have a small list, I would send out three per week and two English 30 Maybe two in a six months, only one or even less like every second probably. So that could be a good cadence.
Fantastic. And then in terms of the content that you'll be sending to these different lists, how would the content vary for say, a really engaged group of people that have opened an email the last 15 days? What type of content? Would you send that that list compared to the people who haven't opened it and email it? Apart from that in the last 90 days? Yeah, sure. So are we typically approach this is you don't want to sell to a cold not engaged
subscriber. So to the Engage 90 Guys, we want to send content only, or maybe customer reviews, some kind of trust builder basic, but we don't want to push sales. And once they open it, they actually get into engage 15 Right, because they just open an email. And then after we can then themselves because they are warmed up already they are interested. So for engage, 90 Engage 60 I would send only content trust builders and Engage 30 Engage 15 I would send
sales emails as well. Because they regularly open they are in you know they invest into your brand. And there you can sell products directly. You can give discount. So all of that that's a great way to actually nurture people in your email lists. If they're not as bought into the brand yet. Don't even think about the sale. Just think about getting them to start
opening emails again. Have you seen any subject lines perhaps that work well, for the less engaged people in your audience so that just just sending them trust? Perhaps customer reviews? What sort of subject lines how what type of emails do you send to these unengaged people to get them back engaged again? Yeah, actually, that's a great question. I would ask our copywriters, what they use nowadays, spam filters, they are much smarter so you can be less, let's say gimmicky down five,
six years. ago, honestly, we reused like a soft approach for those people like something really, really simple. Like, check out our fresh reviews about our best seller product or something like this. Nothing very, you know, we can use the word gimmicky. I don't like her. But yeah, yeah. 100%
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it customers are getting more and more wise, if you're using subject lines, like, Don't miss out, or, you know, free this free that, you know, those type of urgency subject lines, people are going to be switched off straightaway. And also the spam filters, as you say, if it's too spammy in the subject line, then they won't even end up in the inbox as well. So it is a fascinating way of looking at
it. I think if people aren't emailing those who are less engaged to try and get them back engaged, then you're missing out on an opportunity there. So what are the what are the subject lines? What other emails have you see that worked really well for people to get to get people back engaged to get people back onto the website? Yeah, maybe I would add one more thing. So why you don't want to be too gimmicky for unengaged people, not just the spam filters, but also remember, they
are not engaged. So they are very likely to report you. And you don't want that. You don't want spam complaints. You can use these more gimmicky for actually for more engaged, because even it's, if it's not a good subject line, they will forgive you like they know you well. So they like you already. So yeah, that's why I wouldn't use those for unengaged. Yeah. And I would go for trust building, I would send them
content. For example, we have a hiking brand, we send emails, like top five, the destinations, or top five national parks, in the US for hiking. So things like that. It's very, you know, just content type of emails. If you sell let's say, your high ticket item, I talked to a lady who sells expensive massage, massage, massage chairs. And she shares content in the emails
with unengaged subscribers. So the three benefits of massage chairs, I think these numbers with lists work really well to engage and engage people like top three, top five, top seven things, or things like how, why? So how to feel comfortable during sleep, everyone wants to
know that. And it's more about education and, and building trust, again, you're very interested in that might be a bit of a shift in mindset for some people that are perhaps a bit more new to email, and they think they need to be focused on the sale. But actually, if you just take a step back, think about your audience, what are their pains? What are their
needs? And how can you just answer that in subject lines in emails, just give them value, don't expect anything else back, necessarily apart from them becoming more engaged. So to bring this to life, then I think, be good to hear perhaps a success story or other sorts of strategies that have worked well, for your agency with increasing the lifetime value for some of the brands that you've worked with. We've got any success stories that come to mind? Yeah, sure. So my favorite example is
this Hi, King brand. And they are based in Canada, but they sell in the Big Five countries, English speaking countries. And they typically sell items within 100 200, maybe 300, bucks, clothing, items, boots, all of these. And they are big on education as well. But actually, they launched a loyalty program. And we implemented email first, and then a loyalty program as well. So we combine the two things, and the check their segments in Klaviyo in the email software, the lifetime value of
the customers. And I think the lifetime value of the average customer was around 300 bucks. And those who joined the Loyalty Program and the email list, there, it was double. So we just doubled the value of those customers, which is which is huge, right? So after you can spend much more ads or you can take home that money, whatever you want. So it just doubled
their lifetime value. And because email marketing is such a cost effective way of marketing to these people or creating a loyalty program, it goes straight to the bottom line for the business. As you can see, you can then reinvest that to add to generate more sales, or you know, take it out yourself however you want to invest that money, interest in a loyalty program. How did that actually work? How was the brand able to offer a loyalty program
to their customers? Yeah, so we realized that they have a very engaged audience. I think first jewelry We'll need that. So you need at least a couple 100, at least 1000, I would say. So it takes time. But once you hit that, you can build out a loyalty program. And basically, there are many software tools out there you can use, we use standard TARIO, or Yotpo loyalty
lie on you can pick yours. But basically, they can earn points in the program based on different actions, even if you even if they follow you on social media, if they buy if they subscribe if they do if you if they refer you to someone else. So based on different actions, they get points. And they can use those points later on. And they can get gifts. So you can really come up with smart ideas how to incentivize
them. But yeah, they get they get the points, and then they get different rewards that they can earn into purchase. So it's really incentivizes people across the way. Yeah, it's very creative, and it creates a loyal following for your brand, who will then yeah, as you say, increase the lifetime value, which is very interesting for people to do for their brands. Now, of course, the the starting point to create a loyalty program, and to actually email anyone is to grow an email list in the first
place. So if you've got any tips for how people that are just getting started, perhaps how they can start to grow their email list more quickly. Yeah, sure. Actually, I just shot a YouTube video about this topic last week. So how to get good signup forms, how to Welcome new subscribers. And I think when you start out, that's the number one thing, you will see that this the vacum automation that you can set up that generates the most revenue for you. It's
crucial. Basically, you want to set up popups on your website, without making them too annoying. So how we set how we set this up, so we go into Google Analytics, or maybe even Shopify knows this, but we check how much time people spend on your website, let's say the average is 30 seconds. And then we set up a pop up on the website with 30 seconds. So you want less than half people have less than half of your visitors to see this pop up. Basically, you don't want to make it too
annoying. And then you want to add a huge X button. So make it user experience pass be good, especially on mobile. But once you have this pop up, you can add a nice incentive. So they want to subscribe, it can be a discount, that's the easiest one, maybe you can add free shipping, or free gift, if you can afford it, that actually converts very well. Now, so you know, some smart offer if they subscribe. And after they join
your list. And you can send them a welcome automation with a few emails, give them the discount or the offer. And they can go back to the store and buy. But then they are a part of your email list. And you can email them anytime. Yeah, so the trigger to actually get the pop up form to start, you mentioned that it will be based on the amount of time that customers are on your website. Do you see that there's like, a time that seems to work really
well? Or will it depend on how often or how long customers are on the website for already, mostly time and also on desktop, it's exit intent. So kind of special thing. Basically, if anyone is on your site on desktop, and they move their course or their their mouse then and they try to exit they start moving upwards. Then the software, the pop up software can see it and it triggers the popup. So we use the exit intent on desktop and the time trigger as well, which
works on mobile too. And the gardening time, it really depends on the store. That's why we check the data was the average time. But one thing for sure I wouldn't, I wouldn't show this pop up within 510 seconds is just too short. And also many people. Some people will get annoyed and they will buy because of the popup they just exist or they just open a new browser or anything. So yeah, you don't want to do this too
early. Yeah, you gotta it's a balance, isn't it for that exit intent popup is a powerful tool that we can use, especially on Dec desktop, where it's more easy to tell if a customer is about to bounce. And that's our last chance then to try and get them to stay with us and give us their email address. So you can get them on the list and bring them back to the
website. Okay, fascinating. So I think I've certainly learned a lot from this conversation today, Daniel, so thanks for sharing a lot of insights with us. Now for anyone that's eager to implement these and have your help to do that. I know that you have booths Did and you can potentially boost the lifetime value for people listening from 20 to 50%. In just three months, so if anyone's interested in doing that, where can they start with BirdEye media. So check out our website, it's
the Buddha immediate.com. So, t h e b u d, ay, ay immediate. com. And there is a contact form there, quick survey to see where you are now in your journey. If you can work together and serve it as you are, yes, then I'm happy to jump on a call. And let's talk further. mazing. Thank you again, Daniel, for sharing your insights on the podcast today. Really appreciate it. And I'm sure there will be people checking out but I iMedia to increase the lifetime value for their e commerce businesses.
So thank you, Daniel. Thanks, James. Thanks, everyone. Well, Louis, that was an incredibly deep dive into the power of email marketing with Daniel there. I think the potential to significantly increase the lifetime value of customers is something that our listeners Can't Afford to Overlook. Yeah, exactly as clear from the chat that we just have with Daniel there that mastering email marketing isn't just about sending emails, there's way more
to it than that. It's about building relationships, as he said, understanding your customers at a really a much, much deeper level. Right. So implementing some of these strategies can be a game changer for many of our listeners businesses today. So definitely implement what you've learned. Exactly. I know I will. I've taken a lot from that conversation, and I'll be implemented in straightaway into my own businesses definitely.
And for those who are ready to take the next step and dive deeper into optimizing their e commerce strategies, Daniel also provided an exclusive training with a wealth of knowledge in our Premium Members training area as well. And for a comprehensive guide to building and scaling your ecommerce business. Remember to check out my book at H T. A book.com is the perfect companion to Daniel's insights, offering you a full framework to grow your business successfully.
Enjoying the podcast, we'd love to hear from you leave a comment or a review, and we might just feature it on an upcoming episode. Also, for detailed show notes and resources, head to dropship unlock.com. Forward slash podcast. If you found value from any episode of this podcast, please take just 10 seconds to leave us a quick five star review on your podcast app of choice that helps us more than you could imagine. And who knows, you might just hear your comments on the show.
Thanks for being part of our community. Your support helps us keep delivering a new episode every week. Now it's time to answer a question that we've had in from a listener. Remember, if you want your questions answered, simply leave a comment below the YouTube video version of this episode. And it might just be answered on an upcoming episode. So this question is coming from Rishi Patel. 4554. And they have asked, I know how important it is to find a mentor for my
dropshipping business. But I don't know which style is better. One to one or group coaching. What do you think? Yeah, thanks for the question. Rishi. So I think the the answer to that one, having now mentored 1000s of people in our programs, is a balanced approach between the two, there's not really one that's better than the other. And I'll explain a bit about why because they're both essential in my opinion. So having that that approach that incorporates
a one to one mentoring. And group coaching is really important, because it gives you the best of both worlds. It gives you that personalized support that you need to speak directly to a mentor to a coach, you can speak directly, ask your questions, get the specific answers that you need for your unique challenges. But also, the benefit that you get from the group coaching is that sometimes you won't know the questions to ask because you aren't yet at the point where you have those
questions. So the benefit of being in a group coaching environment means that you will learn the questions that you didn't even know you had, so that you then know the answers on how to tackle those challenges so that they don't even become questions as you progress through your journey. So hopefully, you see what I mean, if you were just on your own inner Zoom Room with a mentor, and you were just asking them questions. They'd be like, Well, do you have any other questions? And you'd say, well,
no, I don't think so. Not right now. But someone else who was in that room might have had another question, and you won't get the benefit of learning their answer to that. So I think that's the reason why I mentioned if it was the other way, and it was only group and you had no ability to ask your question directly.
Again, you might have questions that you think I wish they would just answer this on the group environment, but I can't, like interact directly because it's like a one to many type call. That's why it dropship a lot we have in our masterclass group coaching calls with a one to one element in there. So each time you're asking a question, you're interacting directly with one of us on the to q&a calls or on the collaboration calls with other
members. But also there is the possibility of then booking a one to one call as well. So we kind of offer that dynamic by I'd say most people get the most value from the coaching calls in a group environment because they can then watch back the recordings of those eight other people's questions, watch
hundreds of hours of those. So it really is invaluable to, to get that combination of tailored advice, but also, at the same time, get the benefit of the collective wisdom of a group to get the answers to solutions and things that you may not have even considered. I think with all of this as well, this all needs to be underpinned by having a clear, proven step by step training program and
framework to follow. I mean, if you are just relying on a mentor, and there's no material to follow, and there's no proven process is a very windy path to try to get your business up and running. If you have a robust Foundation, with a blueprint that you can follow the steps, the videos like the tutorials, all of that stuff that we have inside the masterclass where it guides you through that process. I'm not saying it's an easy journey. And that's why we have
the coaching calls. That's why we have the the community the support, but it can be very simple journey in that with the right structure is very repeatable, we know what to do, and it's extremely rewarding when you can make it come together. So hopefully that
answers your question. Rishi and anyone else listening who might be considering whether they need a private one on one mentor, whether they want a group coaching or whether they want to join a program, really, you need all three, like the way that this works best is that balanced combination of all three because that way, you'll be equipped with the the tools that you need, the knowledge you need, the support networks that you
need. And then you can navigate the complexities of business and build a thriving ecommerce drop shipping business. Great question. And the combination is so important. I came across something recently where when you've got something that you're trying to learn, you've, you've got people around you that are pushing you up, because they're on the same level as you. And then you've also got access to mentors who are a few steps ahead of you. And they're able to pull you up
to that position as well. So you've got a combination of both group coaching people pushing up around you, and the mentors there as well, that will pull you to get to that level as well as the ultimate combination. And it certainly worked for me. And I know it will do for you as well. Rishi so thank you for your question. Okay, we're now going to highlight a recent review that we've had in from a listener for the podcast as well. So a big thank you to John
G. For the YouTube comment. And John said, What amazes me is the quality of the delivery and the depth of the knowledge imparted. It's very exciting. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for your review, John. Now, we know that people sharing the podcast across social media platforms, but specifically WhatsApp being the most common method of listeners sharing these podcast episodes. So perhaps there's someone that you might know who might be interested in running
their own online business. The single biggest thing you could do to help them right now will be to share this episode with them or this podcast with them on WhatsApp. It will take you about 10 seconds. And the best part is that they'll always have you to thank for their success. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the dropship unlocked podcast. We hope you're walking away with insights and inspiration. to kickstart your E commerce
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