What went wrong with 'The Bear'? Plus, our recent TV highlights

to Denzel Washington. I thought these looked pretty sick. You guys know that I'm, you know, not super high on Paul. I'm a bit sad that rusty is not going to be in this one, but looking at these photos and particularly like the fit that Denzel is in got me really excited. What did you guys think?

pictures looked good, right? Like, I know I've had a bit of concerns about Ridley Scott because of Napoleon, that it might just be a kind of big men doing big men things, but I don't know, it made me excited. But also what I'm really excited about is that we might have a barbenheimer match up with Wicked and Gladiator coming out on the same day in November. That's gonna be huge.

Paul brigade, um, like Osman is. I did think it was very funny seeing some photos of Joseph Quinn online, and it was like I saw one meme that was like, lol, this looks like the kind of guy who leaves his wife Ariana Grande. I thought that was I thought that was very funny. I don't know, I just for me, Gladiator, the first one, the initial one is such like a great film and I just don't know if I need to go back there. I'm happy. Like I think Russell

all power to him. You keep finding like exorcisms to do on screen. That's where you should be now. And I just don't know if this film is going to, like, tarnish the legacy.

Because now it's not just Gladiator, this great film from 24 years ago, it's Gladiator and Gladiator two. But I have to say, yeah, some of my cynicism was was brushed to the side just by seeing some of these photos. And like I said, particularly Denzel, who looks fucking awesome in that sort of blue outfit he was wearing. Very exciting. I mean.

There was one that had 1000 retweets, and it was just like, well, at least we can all agree on something. Thomas Mitchell is a moron. So that was.

about the second half of the season next week. So our conversation will include spoilers up to and including episode five. If you haven't watched that fight and you don't want to be spoiled, maybe catch up and then come back to us. There's a few different threads to how I think we should tackle this conversation. This was one of

our most anticipated shows of the year. The critical and audience reception to season three has been more mixed than the first two, which was basically universal acclaim and a swag of Emmys. I want to talk about how the season is being received, and what that might tell us about how people are feeling about this kind of television right now. But first, I just want to talk to you guys about what you think of this season. The first episode in particular elicited some very, very strong responses.

Season two ends with Kimmy locked in the freezer at the restaurant. He's screaming at Cousin Richie. He's fighting with his girlfriend Claire. When we pick things back up with the premiere of season three, we have this very non-linear, largely exposition and dialogue free episode. It's a little bit experimental. It takes us a little bit after the events of the season two finale, but it mainly focuses on Kimmy's past.

What did you guys make of this Pretty wild way to kick off a very highly anticipated season of a TV show.

kami being locked in the fridge. But to start a new season, I thought this episode was self-indulgent and annoying, and it actually really summarized what's wrong with the rest of the season. I will say we've only seen up to five, and I. I feel like from what I've read, there's some high notes coming in the rest of the season, and we know from the second season, I think some of the best episodes came in the second half. So, I mean, I will caveat with we've only seen the

top one, but this episode just summed it up. It's kind of reliance on melodrama, it's obsession with montages, it's obsession with throwing back into the past. It's kind of weird, heavy handed use of music. It's a very aimless episode, I don't know, like kami is obsessed with, like, continuously evolving. And that's a bit of a theme through the episode. But like, the show has not done that. And I think this first EP really summarizes what my issues are with the first five.

the food looks beautiful. It's hard to not take a nice take in Copenhagen like, you know, because we see Carmy kind of like revisiting all the places he's worked. And essentially we're meant to be learning about how he came to be this kind of anxious mess of a guy who kind of repeats the cycle of abuse, blah, blah, blah. But like, I just found it. That could have been a montage in a part of the episode rather than

basically the entire episode. And, you know, I understand we're coming off the back of the finale, which was so tense. And I you know, I think that fight between Richie and Carmy in the fridge was like one of the best scenes of the series. And maybe this, you know, they wanted to really change the pace when they were bringing us back into the show. But I felt like it just was really kind of limp. Um, you know, like, it's so funny that we constantly get this mantra from

Chef Terry of, like, every Second Counts. And the show is like, not thinking about that at all. Instead, we're just kind of being forced to be like, oh, look at all these pretty pictures. And, you know, I think in what Mel said, I think really agree with that is a snapshot of what I think a lot of the issues with the first five episodes of season three are so far. Um, for me anyway, I don't know, I feel like oseman I know that you watched it in a particular context and you seem to dig it.

Like at that point you made about every second counting that not happening. I think that's really spot on. I feel like there's big moments of this season, either entire episodes or bits of episodes that just feel like filler, that aren't really driving things forward or not taking the kinds of swings or the big set pieces that we've come to love and appreciate from the show. And I hear you guys on the first episode as well, and I can see why it didn't work for a lot

of people. I had a slightly different response to it. And I'm not trying to say that if you didn't like it, you're wrong or anything like that, but. And it may have to do with my mental state. Thomas, you and I, I was in Sydney. We were hanging out. We had a wonderful night at a wonderful restaurant in Sydney and Newtown. Delicious food, delicious drink. I caught a flight the next morning. I was like a bit tired,

a bit emotional in a certain mental state. And I watched this episode of television that I found visually quite beautiful. You know, I think Chris stories like using the cash that he's got and the budget, he's got to just flex his muscles a little bit. And part of me respects that. Like, you've created two seasons of a great show. Everyone loves you. You can kind of do whatever you want.

Your apex now. And he said, I want an episode that I just want to, like, have a bit of fun in that I want to shoot in an interesting way that I want to make a little bit daring, a little bit experimental. I kind of appreciated that. I'm glad the whole season isn't that. I think it's interesting and nice of him to stretch himself in a direction.

I also did find some of the themes of it really interesting, like it is a bit of a restatement of the thesis of this show that Carmy is a very troubled character, and every time he is presented with challenges or trauma, he doesn't know how to deal with it, and he throws himself into his work to try to seek some control in the kitchen environment, because he doesn't really feel like he's got control on other aspects of

his life. One of the bits that I thought worked really well was seeing that sort of cycle filter down, where you see Carmy finally creating the dish that he's the most proud of after this pressure. It's like a diamond, like he's put under this pressure from that mean chef Joel McHale. He's in that situation because he's fleeing all sorts of other issues he's got. He finally nails the perfect dish. And who is it who eats that dish? It's Sid, and she's like, I want to work with

this guy. What a genius. Not aware at that time that he could only create something so masterful because of all the shit that he's carrying and how that hardened inside of him. And then you see, over the next two and a half seasons, the way that Carmy brings that trauma and stress onto her as well. I thought that was a really interesting way to tell that story, but like I said, it was a restatement of everything

we know. We know that kami is like a bit of a piece of shit who wasn't handling himself well. So did it push things forward? Not.

less of him the better. And I just think the show is best when he's not involved as much to me, because I know people will say to me, oh, but that's, you know, his character is meant to be unlikable and troubled, but you can have anti-heroes in other shows, and they don't feel as one dimensional to me as Carmy feels.

actually was thinking a lot about succession last night. Just I mean, I feel like we talk about that show so often, but more and more as these shows, you know, continue to like, navigate their way through different arcs, it kind of just makes you realize how amazing succession was to maintain that quality for so long. But like season three is famously a tricky season for any show like and especially, you know, season one, we were like thrown

into this world. Everyone was like, what an incredible show. And, you know, they're dealing with a subject matter that is easy and that you're building something, you know, from the ground up. And then season two, you know, they get this thing going. And like, that's easy too, in a way. But then like where they're at in season three, like they've, they've got it is naturally like a less exciting subject matter, I think. And I kind of agree with you in

that kami like, it just feels like that. You know, we have been like ramped over the head with these messages of like, kami is like traumatized. Kami has issues and I feel like all of the tension is so arrested right now with with everything that's going on, it's basically like we see Richie and Carmy continue to have their situation. Syd still doesn't feel that respected by Carmy. He offers her like an official partnership in the restaurant, but he doesn't actually listen to her or seek her

counsel on dishes. The sister has been pregnant for like three years. It's insane. Like, I just I just feel like, you know, I understand the timeline of the show, but it feels like all of the tension has, like, not moved forward at all. And, you know, like, unfortunately, whether or not that's like a reflection of real life in this restaurant, but it doesn't necessarily then translate to really watchable TV.

non-negotiables episode. But to your point, Thomas. Yeah, it's like predominantly about Richie and Carmy yelling at each other, which I did find very fun and interesting, but wasn't new. Wasn't that exciting? Episode three. It's just like, here's a restaurant operating over the space of a month. Great. We've seen that over two years as well. Episode four Syd gets her own apartment. I don't really care that much about that. Marcus's mum died. He. He speaks at the funeral,

delivers the eulogy. It's now been like a season and a half of Marcus's mum dying. Like, in no disrespect to my guy, but, like, that's a lot of time to spend on one minor characters like personal family issue. And then episode five, the episode of the review where we get some of the stunt casting John Cena. Overall, I found those episodes like, I think at least episode one tried to do something different and interesting. I found

the rest of it really treading water. The only bits that really worked for me were Abby Elliott, who plays my sister. I find a really interesting and I get that the the pregnancy story, I think that resolves itself later in the season from, from what I've read. But she's really interesting and compelling, and I find her to be a really interesting anchor in this show. But that's kind of really all I can say in terms of what I really loving about it at the moment.

is just like, go fuck yourself. Yeah, go fuck yourself. That's like the main dialogue, but there's two really great scenes. That scene with Cousin Richie where he's wondering whether he needs to stay out of his kid's life for her sake.

her baby. And it does show that they have the potential to do these wonderful scenes, but they're too distracted by the montages and the close ups and the music, and they don't actually invest in these characters as much outside of the restaurant as I think that they should.

tricks that made the first two seasons so great. Like like these, like really well timed flashbacks like these really kind of like beautiful montages of, like the minutiae of like, life in the kitchen and not necessarily just like food being cooked, but like Greece being, you know, wiped from the inside of an oven that, that they now feel like the biggest kind of like papering over the cracks

of like holes in these episodes. And they've completely, like, forgotten the idea, you know, probably something you hear in the kitchen all the time, like less is more, and instead they're just like the aside from the opening episode, the amount of like flashbacks and montages, it's just such

a like distraction. And also, I think it tells any savvy enough viewer that you've, like, not got a great idea of what's going on in your show because you're, you're doing this and I guess Oseman, I was curious to speak to you about this because you are such a marvel guy. Like, is this the whole like, Avengers Endgame situation where it's like, you split it in two because and then you just dilute the quality?

time that there was enough to warrant two movies. I mean, we're talking about maybe like 15 hours of television across these three and four seasons. This doesn't feel like there's 15 hours or even 12 hours of storytelling to tell here. So we've got these flashbacks. We've got so many shots of Carmy deciding what micro herb to put on, so many shots of him cooking food and throwing it in the bin. And it's not clear to me what purpose

they serve. You know, we had this conversation about action scenes and sex scenes and people say, what's the point of them? All these different sort of scenes can tell you something about a character. But for me, at this stage in this show, it's not clear what these scenes

are supposed to represent. And Mel, you're right about Richie and Sugar being the most interesting because despite them playing specific roles in relation to how Carmy and the rest of the crew are doing, we know about their lives. We know what they're thinking about. We know what they're trying to process. We even know that Richie is obsessed

with William Friedkin and Michael Mann films, right? That's like a fleshed out and interesting and compelling character who is trying to work at his job, find some meaning in his life through his profession, manage his his divorce and his kid and his ex-wife getting married. He's got he's got a relationship with the maitre d that worked at ever, the really fancy Olivia Colman restaurant. We understand all these

things for Carmy. What do we what's going on in his life other than he's just, like, quite stressed out in the kitchen and misses his ex-girlfriend who's not in the show at all so far. So it's just flashbacks. It's a really bizarre situation I think the show has ended up at.

is kami is like really front and center again. And I was thinking about like, what role does the reputation of the show like? Jeremy Allen white has no doubt become the biggest star from this show. Like, you know, I think Ayo Edebiri has a case also to make for how much her stock has risen. But those two really, let's say from the bear doing so well, have become

like these huge pop culture figures now. And I wonder what the relationship like is between, you know, the network and the creators of the show when talking about what the season will look like. Because if you look at the trajectory of the show, it felt like Carmy was becoming less and less, you know, important and less crucial to be centered. And then suddenly we get to season three and the gap. You know, what's happened in that gap is that he's become a superstar, really. And then

he's like, right back in the frame. And I was wondering, I'm like, if that kind of speaks to, I guess, you know, leveraging his star power because I wouldn't have expected it to be the case.

we fly out. It's interesting hearing you make that point, because most of Carmy's scenes are in like 1 or 2 sets, and we know that he's like working on like a oh, so many different film projects and other things right now that maybe they're one foot in the bear, one foot out of the bear. And that then impacts the story you can tell and the scenes that these

guys can be in. The other thing I wanted to ask you guys about, I think it kind of goes to the nature of what kind of show the bear is, what kind of show maybe the creators wanted to make and where it's going now. These sorts of like three, four, five season shows. Succession is like a clear standout that doesn't really fit into this because of just how kind of special it was. But these kinds of shows last because you create an ensemble cast, a dynamic, a vibe

that you want to hang out with, right? Like shows like The Office, these workplace situational comedies or dramas. It's like, I want to see these guys for 20 episodes a year, whatever. Just like get up to high jinks, just do some stuff. Maybe there'll be some plot lines about love, death and marriages, and it's a little bit soapy, and this show is a little bit of that soapiness to it as well.

But it's also very firmly in terms of its structure and themes, that classic kind of prestige show like more focused. It's trying to tell a particular story. It's got eight episodes here or eight episodes there. The stakes are really high. It's really grappling with big, complex ideas about trauma and life and work and family and all that sort of stuff, and it feels like it's kind of trying to do

both those things and not doing it well. Like there's almost a version of the show where the stakes aren't so high, it's not so fucking intense and there's so much swearing. And it's just like today is about Marcus trying to, like, go to the donut store and figure out what his new donut recipe is. And if the tension isn't ratcheted up, you can just enjoy that. And then you look forward to the CID episode or the

comedy episode. But the show doesn't want to give up being a very serious, dark kind of a series, and I think that is also feeding into why it feels a bit tonally mixed here. Do you guys have thoughts on that?

think it's it's working. And he's lost. What did actually make the show great in the first and also to that tonal difference, there's a lot of the fact family comes into this. Matty Matheson and his brother have a bit more of a lead role in the first five episodes, and it's very clear that they're there for some comic relief in between all the yelling. But their scenes are very slapsticky, and the juxtaposition just feels really like we've got to have some hecticness now. We've got to have

some lightness. And I also found that that tonally, it couldn't quite pick whether it wanted to make us laugh or cry, love or hate. It was. Yeah, it was a bit confusing.

It gets nominated in the comedy category for the Emmys, and it's swept that category last season. But like this show is not a comedy, and there's always a conversation around that. But like, there was some kind of chatter online about, like, is the show like shoehorning in these

comedy scenes? And it's always been kind of funny, but especially like, yeah, as you said, Mel, the fact that, you know, like Jack and his brothers have been so clearly, like, slotted in as this comedic relief and previously in previous seasons, like he had this, you know, like funny interactions with Richie and they all felt so organic as they were trying to fucking revive the beef and then start the bear.

Whereas now it's like we have these really intense scenes and then we cut to fuck, like buffing a floor or trying to measure up a glass. And it's so like it just feels so jarring. It's like, you know, you're watching like comedic relief and it just has the reverse effect. And and for me, it feels like such a shame because the show has always been so good at blending this really intense trauma and drama with like,

really funny bits of very natural comedy. And now it, you know, like, feels like a box is being ticked.

what television can evoke within you. If this show in its final half has a couple of episodes like that, I think that will probably drown out our issues with the first half of the season. I think it's still the key issue, still seems to be too many episodes for the amount of plot and development that they've got, but I am pretty interested to check back in next week and see how we go. But before we finish on the bear, I had a question for you guys.

It kind of leads me to a prediction I want to make about where this season or where the show is going. Story wise, the food on the show is obviously a show about fine dining, restaurants and and food is a key part of it. I've started to come to the conclusion, or perhaps the realization that I don't think the food on this show looks particularly good. What do you guys think?

everyone else involved from the people they love. We end up back at the original Beef of Chicago, because it's interesting that this season has the guy making those sandwiches. They look great. It's successful. They're talking about how that's the only part of the business making money. I kind of think the show is going to end with them shutting down the bear and saying, let let's just make these delicious sandwiches in honor of Mike. That's that's my prediction. Yeah.

us a few, like, clues along the way. Even in episode five, there's a moment where kami, who has basically shut out everyone in his work life, family life, everything he like, you know, they drop some trays and he finds himself with Ibrahim, the guy who's running, you know, the beef sandwich window. And he just they look at each other and he's like, am I fucking this up? And I thought that was interesting. You know, he like, yeah. In the kitchen hierarchy Ibrahim is kind of like down

the bottom. He's just doing the sandwich window. But he can't be like really genuinely asks him like, am I ruining this? And you're kind of.

what the hell are you doing? You're sort of just like fulfilling this role that you've observed without that kind of creative spark, that passion that drives you. He's in the kitchen every episode. Venison with a bearnaise foam. Like, none of that makes sense. And I and I think even though it's annoying to see so much of that stuff, if the payoff is I'm a fucking idiot, these delicious beef sandwiches are the best thing in the world. That's what I'm going to do. Yeah. Fair enough.

hard to do. You don't have, uh, you don't have like an expectation from the people coming into the restaurant. The chefs are not always communicating effectively with the front of house. These are all the challenges. You don't make the intake you expect for that week that puts pressure on. You've got to cut back all that stuff, even down to shit. We've been reviewed this week. We didn't know they're coming to take a photo. All of that stuff plays out in fine dining land, and I think the

show does that well. I think what's still kind of missing is like, to what purpose? To what purpose? That we exploring their anxieties about the fine dining space. I didn't answer your question directly, I realized, Thomas, But, um, you know, I think it's a partnership. I did. I did, though, have a message with my chef this morning about something financial related, but.

smack it out of the park. I don't, I just know for a fact in my fucking soul that I didn't feel the same watching these first five as I have previously watching the show. Like it's just it's edged off for me and so I don't know, I think it'll yeah, unfortunately I don't know how good this season can be. Even if the next five are absolutely stellar.

I think. I think this show is is great. It's like one of the best crime procedurals I've seen since the night of, like, I love David E Kelley, I love Jake, I love Bill camp, I love Elisabeth Moss, like all the side characters in this Peter Sarsgaard, they're all so good and I'm so hooked. And I sort of sometimes hate how every episode ends in that real obvious cliffhanger way. But the show is so good, and there are so many great characters and twists that I

kind of don't care. I'm really, really enjoying it. And yeah, still loving it. Four apps in I.

who done it. So, um, and they keep throwing in new contenders. So yeah, it's got me completely hooked. And I would say it's maybe the best crime show I've seen this year or in some time.

in these shows, especially David E Kelley. Um, but yeah, I think it's it's definitely one of the shows of the year and especially, I guess, you know, coming off the back of talking about the bear. But again, I reckon like the ensemble casting for this Is so good, like, you could, I could happily watch an entire bottle episode of Peter Sarsgaard being a fucking slime ball or like, I mean, we do get so much of Bill camp and his wife and even their home life is like

such an interesting dynamic. Like everyone, you.

that is becoming tired. And yet, here we are. I do feel like, unfortunately, this show like slots neatly into those categories. And yet it feels like one of the most gripping shows of the year.

of hate him. You feel for him, you understand him. It it has a different emotional complexity to it. I think if you're looking at those leads.

probably won't be surprised to hear this. The role of Caroline Polhemus, the murdered woman played by Greta Scacchi in the film, very reflective of the social attitude towards like women in Hollywood in the 90s in the sense that she's basically, like, slut shamed for what she's done and you don't really feel, I mean, like, you obviously feel sorry for her because she's dead, but the film is

not that sympathetic to her. Whereas I think the character here, played by Renate Reinsve, is far more interesting, far more complicated. She gets around to like life before you find out a lot more about her. And I think that's a really smart change that they've made to the show. And just the last thing I want to say, I don't know how to pronounce his last name. O-T Fagbenle, who plays Nico Della Guardia, who's from the, um, he's so good, too. He's so good. And he he's English, so he doesn't

sound like that. So he's doing this thing with, like, his chin jutting forward and that kind of like, you know, arrogant tone that he has. I would watch an entire spin off show, like David E Kelley loves doing spin offs. I'd love to see him just being this kind of dodgy chief prosecutor. Uh, in, in Chicago, just.

it comes out on Friday. It's ten episodes, and I found it so fascinating and like, so basically it takes you inside the particularly the 100 metre male sprint circuit in the year leading up to the Olympic final. Uh, and I guess it's always been the blue ribbon event for the Olympics. You know, obviously Usain Bolt won it three Olympics in a row. It's kind of that one event that everyone tunes into. It's like everything to athletics. And it follows, I guess, the major contenders. And I

just found it so interesting to meet these guys. The first episode is basically about the Olympic champion, the Italian Marcell Jacobs, and then like the next up and comer, Noah Lyles, this young American guy. And basically those two are going to be like it seems battling it out at the Olympics. But it just shows you like what goes into the training for this, how insane it is to like spend your life basically working on a nine

second run. It did the exact thing that I want a sports documentary to do, which is like give you insight into a part of this, I guess, like arena that you never really go into or you have no interest in. So yeah, that Sprint on Netflix, I really, really enjoyed it.

of lovely countryside people riding their bikes. Great commentary team Matthew Keenan, Bridie O'Donnell, Simon Gerrans this perfect mix of kind of medical expertise, cycling expertise, cycling knowledge and just enjoy yourself, enjoy the tour. Pets that pop on. That's when people send pictures of their pets watching the tour. Enjoy the food. It's just delightful. And Thomas, can you watch it?

holds the Beretta pistol that was used to shoot Benito Mussolini. Yeah. And I'm like, that is awesome. I am just watching a bunch of weird men cycle and I'm learning some history. Uh, I'm learning some details about the history of Italian fascism. That is great.

so small that it really is high stakes. And then you kind of wonder, like there's not heaps of money in cycling, like it's not a sport.

the aerial shots over the French countryside. But then there are these moments that kind of come up out of nowhere, where someone will just challenge someone to win a point in a sprint or in a climb, and you just see something really exciting, and then it just goes back to being this relaxing lull of the waves just gently crashing over you as you try to go to sleep. It's great stuff.

Twilight sort of thing. It's a bit darker, a bit more interesting. It feels more contemporary in terms of what it's trying to grapple with. The books famously have these quite sharp, queer themes to them that the film largely eradicated, like very, very subtle. They're they're back in this in

a really interesting and fun and sharp way. And I think it reminded me of, like, the Ripley TV adaptation in that way, where we had this Ripley film that was great, but, you know, softened some of the edges of the original source material, and then it takes you some time to to delve back into them. Interview with a vampire is is doing that. It's sort of like going back to the text and picking the bits that are interesting, but maybe didn't feel right in the in

the early to mid 90s. It's just been renewed for a third season, but the first two are on iview. If you're just looking for something that's like fun and interesting and dramatic, give this series a go. Sam Reid people might know him from the newsreader. He's really great. Great Australian actor. Great in this series. That's my rec.